March 25, 2020

Trump's approval rating has drastically improved in the last few days. Let's talk about why.

This graph shows the trend clearly (and go here, to Real Clear Politics, to see the different polls that are averaged):



Here's the full timeline for the Trump presidency, showing that you'd have to go back to that first month in 2017 to get this level of support:



Yes, it's still in the negative. Anyway, let me sketch out reasons that occur to me, and then help me out in the comments:

1. In a crisis, people look to the leader they have, and they want to believe that person will help us.

2. Trump is on TV a lot, performing his presidential role, in real time, without media commentary, and it's working as intended, to make people feel that competent people are working hard.

3. The Democratic Party primary has receded into near nothingness, so we're not hearing the candidates attacking Trump very much. We're not thinking so much about replacing Trump, which can't happen until January 2021. Biden has the nomination, and his efforts to remain relevant during the crisis are uninspiring. Best to look away for now, let events play out, and — if you're a Democrat — hope there's something left to make a campaign out of in the fall. What's the point of hating Trump right now? Life is hard enough, and who wants to be a big pessimist?

4. [ADDED at 3:56 the same afternoon.] Trump haters had heard that Trump was a fascist, looking to find a way to dictatorship, but it turns out he hasn't taken this opportunity to make a big power grab. He's even getting criticized for not being coercive and overbearing enough, as he works with governors and private companies. Trump's behavior in this real crisis may be easing fears about imagined things.

5. ...

516 comments:

1 – 200 of 516   Newer›   Newest»
Freeman Hunt said...

That absurd wish list the Dems had for the stimulus certainly didn't help them.

chickelit said...

Why?? Because the Dems are so dreadful and are getting worse by the day, that's why!

mockturtle said...

I thought the latest Gallup poll showed Trump's approval 49% approve to 45% disapprove.

Dave Begley said...

Trump has really toned down his manner. He's sounds more reasonable and not as strident. It really has been a significant change. His pressers are a real switch for him. And, of course, the press harps on minor things and try to sensationalize matters.

Ice Nine said...

4. (which should obviously be 1. for anyone who is in fact neutral): He's doing a great job of handling this emergency, and of being a leader.

Bill Harshaw said...

Polls show Democrats are much more worried about Covid-19 than Republicans are. In consequence, they feel worse, meaning they're much less likely than Republicans to put up with answering a pollster's questions

rcocean said...

Look 50% of America would be happy as clams if President Hillary was handling this Chinese Flu Virus. I wouldn't. I think it would have botched it big time, and probably would've gotten us into a war in the last 3 years. But NOTHING will keep the dead head Democrats and the "Moderate" suburban voters from voting Democrat. We've been in this situation before. In 1968 we had race riots, inflation, a deficit, a no-win war in Vietnam, rising crime and an out-of-control Warren Court and STILL all deadheads went and voted for Humphrey - Nixon Barely won.

We're back to that, where the Democrats can do anything, nominate anyone, and 45-50% of the country will vote for them. NO matter what. Look at the provisions Pelosi put in her Stimulus Pork bill - that's what you'll get on Day 1 of Biden Presidency.

Ryan said...

How about: They believe Trump is in fact doing a good job of managing this crisis all things considered, despite his reaction not being perfect.

Bay Area Guy said...

"The Democratic Party primary has receded into near nothingness, ....."

They are horrible people, and should recede into nothingness.

Let me rephrase. Democrat Party politicians are horrible people and should recede into nothingness. But there's still a lot of good people out there who mistakenly vote Democrat, based on the fumes of yesterday. My wonderful Mother-in-law still votes Dem, dreaming about John F. Kennedy, recalling memories from 60 years ago when she was a young gal.

Ma, there ain't no John Kennedy in the modern day Democrat Party. You got doddering Joe Biden coughing on people, and sniffing hair. Sorry.

Polyzen said...

Well, the only solution is to keep him off the TV then.

hombre said...

That must be why the NYT in particular and the other mediaswine in general have upped their calumniation campaign against him.

rhhardin said...

Maybe women developed a sense of humor and so understand Trump now.

LYNNDH said...

So now I understand that MSNBC and CNN are in panic mode and reducing or not carrying at all the Trump updates because they fear they really are helping him. It doesn't help that even with all his handlers Biden is what is known in military a ClusterFuck.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

4. Biden is Biden.

It’s 2016 redux. There’s Trump and.... well, no one, really.

Ryan said...

Althouse I think the link in the post is not working.

Jersey Fled said...

Gallop has Trump at 49% overall approval and 60% on handling of covid-19 crisis. This is a poll of "all adults" so probably higher with likely voters. His overall approval,is 3 points higher than Obama at the same point in his presidency.

Even 27% of Democrats approve of Trump's handling of the crisis.

Sadly, none of them post here.

David in Cal said...

Trump has been portrayed as an ogre -- as Satan. Simply being seen as a human being helps him. BTW I voted for Trump, but I don't like his speaking style at these press conferences. I want precision; Trump is vague.

narciso said...

No wonder sullivan and maddow were verklempt.

Lawrence Person said...

You forgot to mention how Chuck and Nancy cynically tried to derail badly-needed emergency relief in a naked social justice payoff power grab.

That sat very badly with ordinary Americans...

Spiros said...

Trump DID NOT have enough data to justify the shutdown. Your unthinking support of this man is stupid.

The existing Covid 19 data supports any number of conclusions. For example, Oxford's Evolutionary Ecology of Infectious Disease group found that over 50% of the British population contracted Covid 19 in January and February. These people recovered and are now immune. If this is true, Covid 19's fatality rate is shockingly low. Oxford, Cambridge and Kent universities plan to carry out antibody testing on the public later in the week. Here in the U.S., we did experience a massive surge in (negative) flu tests in January and February as well. Was this Covid 19? And why doesn't Trump and his squad know?

If Covid 19 has already infected most Americans and the fatality rate is extremely low, then Trump must resign. If he doesn't resign, he must be impeached.
Immediately. No more culture war bullsh*t. I don't care if some transgender kid is using the little girls room in your kid's grammar school. Deal with it. I don't care if the gays are going to take your guns. The economic shutdown could be an epic fiasco. And, if it is, heads need to roll.

SGT Ted said...

4...

Is that the press and Democrats have continued to behaved like partisan idiots trying to hang this around Trumps neck as well as trying to use the crisis to pimp their unrelated political policy goals.

Specifically, the presses own spectacular lack of self awareness of their constantly contradicting themselves and trying to fabricate narratives out of the flimsiest excuses in order to "own Trump" showcases their Oppositional Defiant Mental Disorder when it comes to reporting involving Trump.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Biden seems irrelevant now and will be even more so by the convention. The draft Cuomo whispers have begun. Hillary is too closely associated with Chinese money and bad government to slide into the slot now. Hard times call for tough leadership and there’s nothing but a big void opposite Trump now, except for the few governors who appear to be leading well in a time of uncertainty.

SGT Ted said...

"If Covid 19 has already infected most Americans and the fatality rate is extremely low, then Trump must resign. If he doesn't resign, he must be impeached."

Oh shut the hell up.

Ken B said...

Perhaps it’s because he has been making good decisions. He shut down flights. He has listened to scientific advice. He has forced the FDA and other agencies to adapt, fast. He has worked well and helpfully with governors. Perhaps he deserves a little approval.

I haven’t liked everything he said. That’s unimportant if what he *does* is sensible. So far it seems to be.

Sebastian said...

5. People realize that if Dems work with Trump, he works with them.
6. People realize that all the anti-Trump BS was BS.
7. People realize that Trump being "strident" was just him fighting back against nasty attacks; the real Trump is a nice guy who wants results.
8. People realize that Trump doesn't just do well in good times, he also does well in a crisis.
9. People realize how bad the MSM really are.
10. Already covered by Althouse, but worth restating: Dems ain't got nuthin'.

Ken B said...

“ How about: They believe Trump is in fact doing a good job of managing this crisis all things considered, despite his reaction not being perfect.”

Bingo.

zipity said...


"Biden has the nomination, and his efforts to remain relevant during the crisis are uninspiring."

You mean Biden's efforts to remain coherent, don't you?

Bay Area Guy said...

I guess a more neutral and mature approach (which, admittedly, I often lack), would be to ask and answer the following questions:

1. Has Trump done a good job, policy-wise, trying to contain this potential epidemic?

2. What policies has Trump employed that have done good for the country?

3. What has he failed to do, that he should have done?

4. As our democratically elected leader, has he calmed and/or inspired us, or has he inflammed and/or panicked us?


Last night, my wife, Bay Area Gal, quietly said after dinner, that for this election, she is going to reconsider Trump.

If she votes for Trump, it's over folks. She is the most reasonable, centrist person you have ever met.

rehajm said...

Trump's approval nearly three times that of Congress @ 21.3 percent via RCP.

Wince said...

Maybe now "Make America Great Again" is coming into sharper relief as they see Trump's America First and economic national security policies were prescient?

narciso said...

All this anti trump bushwa is like the teacher in charlie brown, wa wa wa wa (people tune it out)

traditionalguy said...

Intelligent leadership wins wars. Americans have always known their survival depends on winning wars. Lincoln was re-elected solely because his leadership lead to Sherman winning at Jonesboro on August30-31, 1864.And FDR was a great Commander in Chief that had selected Earnest King and George Marshall.

Contrast to brain dead Biden, in his better days never had an idea he did not plagiarize and could not even understand himself.

Ken B said...

“If Covid 19 has already infected most Americans and the fatality rate is extremely low, then Trump must resign. If he doesn't resign, he must be impeached. ”

People reacted badly to this quote but he is right. Note the IF. If covid is all bullshit then Trump and all those lockdown governors should resign. That's a big if.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Spriros,

"For example, Oxford's Evolutionary Ecology of Infectious Disease group found that over 50% of the British population contracted Covid 19 in January and February. These people recovered and are now immune. If this is true, Covid 19's fatality rate is shockingly low. "

It's funny, you have a good scientific point, roughly "herd immunity," that folks seem to have forgotten about.

And then, politically, you go batshit crazy.

cubanbob said...

God indeed does love America. Can you imagine if Benghazi Hill was president today? Or worse Senility Joe?

exhelodrvr1 said...

4. He is doing a very good job with handling this crisis

5. His performance looks REALLY good compared to "best guesses" of what a Hillary, Joe, or Bernie performance in a similar crisis would look like.

Spiros said...

Trump and Xi: "Make America Poor Again." (And stupid.)

Shouting Thomas said...

Identity politics has killed the Democratic Party.

Having no alternative but the possibly dementia afflicted Biden, the Democrats face the final gasp of their 60s permanent civil rights obsession.

The standard bearers of identity politics... leftist blacks, women and gays killed one another off in a circular firing squad of competing demands over who had the superior claim to victimhood.

The South Carolina primary was the coup de grace. The real n*ggers, that is black people, rejected the demands of the fake n*ggers, that is white women and gays, to be considered "just like blacks under Jim Crow."

It's all fallen apart. Trump ran and will run on competence.

RMc said...

who wants to be a big pessimist?

Big Pessimism is the Democrats' raison d'etre, especially when there's a Republican in the White House.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"If covid is all bullshit then Trump and all those lockdown governors should resign"

That's ridiculous - they should be graded based on what was known/reasonable expectations at the time the decisions were made.

Bay Area Guy said...

"If covid is all bullshit then Trump and all those lockdown governors should resign"

Nobody on planet earth has said it's all bullshit, jeez. The yearly flu is, undeniably, not bullshit. It killed 34,000 Americans last year, mostly the elderly and already immuno- compromised.

What sane folks are saying is that Covid-19 is MUCH LESS dangerous than the yearly flu.

narciso said...

For being cautious, now some like cuomo and newsom and evers may have gone overboad.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

It's funny how the democrats accuse anyone of not buying their crap about Russian as being a "RUSSIAN ASSET!" All while the collective left-democrats do all they can to steal/secure all future elections like Putin does.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

The only way “Trump’s” approach to the Wuhan Pandemic could have been better was if the FDA had stepped up and let the widespread testing begin in February instead of March. That one month delay is the difference between our very good results and South Korea’s excellent results. Every other U.S. government entity performed pretty well and Trump involved the private sector early and often, which has helped us make progress quickly.

Tom said...

The Democratic Party also published a bill that points out exactly who they believe are more important than American workers and small business owners.

$35 Million for the Kennedy Center for Performing Arts? What the heck does the Kennedy Center have to do with responding to COVID 19?!

Here’s a summary of what’s in the House bill, some of which is legit and much of which is plain old highway robbery.

$100,000,000 to NASA
$20,000,000,000 to the USPS
$300,000,000 to the Endowment for the Arts
$300,000,000 for the Endowment for the Humanities
$15,000,000 for Veterans Employment Training
$435,000,000 for mental health support
$30,000,000,000 for the Department of Education stabilization fund
$200,000,000 to Safe Schools Emergency Response to Violence Program
$300,000,000 to Public Broadcasting
$500,000,000 to Museums and Libraries
$720,000,000 to Social Security Admin - most for admin costs
$25,000,000 for Cleaning supplies for the Capitol Building
$7,500,000 to the Smithsonian for additional salaries
$35,000,000 to the JFK Center for performing Arts
$25,000,000 for additional salary for House of Representatives
$3,000,000,000 upgrade to the IT department at the VA
$315,000,000 for State Department Diplomatic Programs
$95,000,000 for the Agency of International Development
$300,000,000 for International Disaster Assistance
$300,000,000 for Migrant and Refugee Assistance
$90,000,000 for the Peace Corps
$13,000,000 to Howard University
$9,000,000 Misc Senate Expenses
$1,000,000,000 Airlines Recycle and Save Program
$25,000,000 to the FAA for administrative costs
$492,000,000 to National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak)
$526,000,000 Grants to Amtrak to remain available if needed through 2021
$25,000,000,000 for Transit Infrastructure
$3,000,000 Maritime Administration
$5,000,000 Salaries and Expensive Office of the Inspector General
$2,500,000 Public and Indian Housing
$5,000,000 Community Planning and Development
$2,500,000 Office of Housing
$1,500,000,000 Tenant-Based Rental Assistance Office of Public and Indian Housing. 1,000,000,000 of which can be used as "additional administrative and other expenses".
$720,000,000 to the public housing fund
$100,000,000 for Community Block Grants for Native Americans
$250,000,000 for Housing Block Grants for Tribes
$130,000,000 for AIDS Housing
$15,000,000,000 for the Community Development Fund
$5,000,000,000 in Homeless Assistance
$100,000,000,000 for Rental Assistance
An additional $7,000,000 enforce the Fair Housing Act
$1,000,000,000 for more mobile phones ("Obamaphones")
$227,000,000 for grants to States for youth activities
$261,000,000 for grants to States for dislocated worker training
$10,000,000 for Migrant and Seasonal Farmworker programs
$100,000,000 for Job Corps
$15,000,000 for Program Administration
$6,500,000, to the Wage and Hour Division
$30,000,000, to OSHA
$10,000,000 for Susan Harwood training grants
$1,300,000,000, for Primary Health Care
$75,000,000, for Student Aid Administration
$9,500,000,000, for Higher Education

Bay Area Guy said...

Biden gave a rousing speech yesterday denouncing the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918.

The problem was he thought it was 1918.

Hubert the Infant said...

It might be because the Democrats' big issue is free healthcare for all, and this crisis is showing that our healthcare system is dreadful. Healthcare makes up almost a fifth of our GDP, but hospitals in NYC are already overwhelmed. How is that possible? Moreover, our so-called medical experts' brilliant strategy is to deal with COVID-19 in the same way the U.S. dealt with the Spanish Flu. So, nothing has improved in 100 years? The media and many politicians are trying to make heroes out of doctors and nurses who are simply performing their jobs. Most of them know as much about a novel infectious disease as Bill Gates does. Like him, they should leave policy decisions to those whom we elected.

pacwest said...

4. People are looking beyond their usual sources of information on what is really happening. Once you're outside the bubble things look different.

rehajm said...

I think its due in part to the ubiquity of the the strong but false narrative that the desires of the AOC wing of the Democratic party and the Sanders faction of the Socialist party were the inevitable future of the United States. Now that the votes have been cast to conclusively reject that narrative the AOC socialists are disenfranchised and any Democrat moderates are for now stuck with an old white guy who couldn't get arrested for possession of his own faculties.

In that context Trump looks pretty good even to some of them...

Kate said...

A lot of the discussion about social distancing and work-from-home has a whiff of elitism. Trump has been vocally supportive of grocers and truckers, all the people whose jobs require being out in the world. His comment yesterday, hoping to open again at Easter, was reassuring. Our great little local restaurants -- Donut Corral, Chicken on the Run, Wheezy's -- need to know if they can survive the shut-down timeline.

Drago said...

Spiros: "Trump and Xi: "Make America Poor Again." (And stupid.)"

Niiiiiicely done laddie!

That whole Russia Russia Russia thing didn't work out so why not launch China China China?!

I mean, you do have that little detail that Trump has been hitting the Chinese in the teeth for 4 straight years to somehow paper over while the entire democrat/Lefty/LLR-lefty establishment and media has been supporting and defending China and desiring to hand all trade power back over to the ChiComs.

But by gum, if ever there was ever a man to do just that, its you!

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Despite non-stop hammering from corrupt Hillary Clinton Media-Hollywood Industrial Complex.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Pelosi's bill certainly helped, and Chuck Schemer's address about "OUR BILL" passing will as well. Dems are making the re-election ads for Mr. T.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

If covid is all bullshit then Trump and all those lockdown governors should resign.

1. Obviously it isn’t “all bullshit” but it was oversold as a super-virulent strain of SARS that spread asymptomatically and would overwhelm the whole world’s hospital resources: “crematoria are running 24/7 in Hubei province to deal with the dead!”
2. If ALL the public health experts advised a form of shutdown Trump had a duty to try it until additional data made that track untenable.
3. This has always been a balance between panic and prudence, between Public Health and economic uncertainty. Sure a review if this year at some future point might reveal a simpler path but in the fog of “war” Trump has consistently made good choices.

Freeman Hunt said...

I'd love to see a graph of public approval for the CDC. Bet that's tanked.

MikeR said...

Look a few weeks ago, before the crisis really hit, that was where his ratings were, post-impeachment bounce. Then the pandemic hit and he looked bad in the first few days with some bad media performances and a lot of media attack and things went back down. Then he got his messaging down and people seem him as doing well so it's going back up.

pacwest said...

5. Praise for Trump from Democrat leaders is penetrating the bubble.

Drago said...

I am pleased to announce that ARM has designated me: "One of the biggest losers ever to completely, total, without redemption, embarrass themselves on this blog"

I don't know about you, but I especially appreciated the "without redemption" touch.

Ken B said...

Mike
It’s hilarious, I pointed out the big if. I capitalized IF. But you think I didn’t notice the if.

Of course it’s not bullshit. I'm the one people here call a cunt for pointing out that it’s not bullshit. I support most of the quarantine measures.

Kathryn51 said...

Dave Begley said...
Trump has really toned down his manner. He's sounds more reasonable and not as strident. It really has been a significant change. His pressers are a real switch for him. And, of course, the press harps on minor things and try to sensationalize matters.

One name: Hope Hicks. She returned to the WH in February (2020). She reports to Jared K. They have structured these press briefings so that Trump is surrounded by the experts. And she knows the press will devour itself with this format.

She may have saved his Presidency.


CJinPA said...

It's mainly due to #1.

With Gallup, it was 84% GOP and 60% Independent approval of handling COVID, and 24% Dem approval.

HOWEVER...

1. Many folks may not be feeling the effects of the shutdowns yet. As paychecks are missed and bills mount, this could change.

2. If Trump urges a rush back to normal too soon, and deaths mount, this could crater.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Do you think, that maybe, Spiros has the Inside Track on this??? BWAHAAHAAHAA. He's channeling his inner 'Whoopie'. Back to sleep Sman!

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Democrats accuse YOU of being Putin - while Democrats are really Putin.

“They're only kidding themselves if they think the American people aren’t wondering how these pols went from an economic stimulus bill to voter registration. "

Drago said...

Kathryn51: "One name: Hope Hicks. She returned to the WH in February (2020). She reports to Jared K. They have structured these press briefings so that Trump is surrounded by the experts. And she knows the press will devour itself with this format."

Well, I wouldn't put it all on Hope Hicks, though that is clearly helping.

Watch any Kellyanne Q&A with the rabid press and you'll see the same sort of confidence and calling out the press with glances and smiles and pushbacks but all in a firm yet somehow softened way which makes the press look exactly like they are.

madAsHell said...

One word.....Leadership!

Ken B said...

Don’t preen Drago. You have a lot of company. Most commenters here, in their reckless disregard of the danger, their blindness to evidence, their callous disregard of the health and lives of others, have shamed themselves at least as much as you.

wendybar said...

Because the Democrats hate us. Nancy and her merry band of misfits worked a whole 2 minutes before she dismissed them until tomorrow morning which means no money for Americans while Nancy plays her fiddle and America burns down. Why the F*ck would anybody even consider voting for these people is beyond me. If you are that dumb and blind, you shouldn't vote.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Polls show Democrats are much more worried about Covid-19 than Republicans are. In consequence, they feel worse, meaning they're much less likely than Republicans to put up with answering a pollster's questions”

They should be for several reasons. For one, they tend to be far more reliant on government for services. Instead of buying guns and practicing with them, they trust the police. I know a lot of conservatives who were ready for the pandemic, with all the necessities in place. . Democrats are much less independent, and instead trust the government to prepare for them. They didn’t, of course.

My favorite was our federal government’s plan to plan for a pandemic, that ultimately depended, in its timing, on WHO notification, which, thanks to Chinese perfidy, was months late. It looked great on paper. Probably wouldn’t have worked, but turned out to be less than worthless when the Chinese were months late notifying the WHO, and WHO was even later notifying countries, including the US. And ignored the pesky problem that there wasn’t a vaccine to ramp up production of, and if there had been, it would still take a year of FDA trials. Meanwhile, they had failed to replenish masks and other supplies used in the epidemic at the end of the Obama Administration.

I too would be worried if I primarily depended on governments to protect me - their overall response has underwhelming, when not counterproductive (e.g. The Dem governor of NV just announced that anti malarial drugs couldn’t be used against COVID-19 in his state).

traditionalguy said...

Interestingly, the Globe First guys are upset about the shelter in place policy. They see it as Trump’s plan to engulf them in a storm of disclosures of corrupt crimes by the Deep State government army and arrests of the indicted ones. This Mr Nice Guy Trump is an act.

Nonapod said...

We're in the midst of this crisis, so it's still somewhat difficult to rate how well we're doing, if we've approached this correctly, if we're overreacting or underreacting, if our healthcare system is handling things or being completely overwhelmed.

But there are a few things that seem to be emerging if we compare ourselves to other countries. South Korea seems to have handled this much better than basically everyone else by quite a bit (so far). And Italy seems to have handled it in a much worse way.

Michael K said...

ate said...
A lot of the discussion about social distancing and work-from-home has a whiff of elitism. Trump has been vocally supportive of grocers and truckers, all the people whose jobs require being out in the world.


Well said. Government workers are all Democrats and are all on paid vacations.

The internal polling on Nancy's try must have been awful.

Has anyone seen Spiros and ARM together ? Tone and craziness sound so similar.

Kevin said...

Oh no, Trump's poll numbers are getting erect!

Media, quick, make up a story about Trump shipping all our ventilators to Putin!

wendybar said...

And then you have the Nevada Governor who has an EXTREME case of Trump Derangement Syndrome and wrote an executive order banning anybody from getting and using chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after President Donald Trump touted the medication as a treatment for the virus. He would rather his constituents die rather than prove Donald Trump right.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Ken B said...
Mike
It’s hilarious, I pointed out the big if. I capitalized IF. But you think I didn’t notice the if.


But it isn’t true. It’s not going to turn out to be bullshit. So what is the point of you posting that stupid, poorly thought out IF statement? What were you trying to say? What’s so profound about quoting a stupid lF statement?

Kevin said...

@Drago, ARM: Please try to quit each other. Thanks.

Social media distancing.

narciso said...

I pointed out in the earlier thread, the extreme assumptions behind these models as well as the utter negligence of Cuomo and diblasio, bordering on negligence,

Chris said...

Imagine how high his approval would be if there wasn't a constant drumbeat of orange man bad. orange man bad. orange man bad. orange man bad... and so on.

narciso said...

and that governor's chief medical officer, isn't licensed in this country,

Kathryn51 said...

Kate said...
A lot of the discussion about social distancing and work-from-home has a whiff of elitism.

This was the garbage posted by a good friend on FB yesterday:

We live in an era of grocery delivery or online ordering and pick up. We have zoom and Facebook video and Skype aand facetime. We have Netflix and hulu and hundreds of TV channels. We couldn't ask for an easier way to have to stay in our homes or to stop nonessential visits or gatherings in person. FFS people. Stay the fuck at home. We even get to go on walks, as long as you stay six feet away from people. It couldn't be made any easier. You just can't be a selfish human to make this work. #flattenthecurve #staythefuckhome

I live in the heart of Microsoft/Amazon Lalaland (and close to the ground zero nursing home). In other words, surrounded by privilege - folks who don't know anyone who doesn't have Hulu, Netflix and 100's of TV channels. Folks who think nothing of paying extra for grocery delivery (and extra high tips!). In fact, they think everyone has computers/laptops so Skyping is EASY!!.

Sanctimonious, privileged and blind.

Spiros said...

Drago, Xi is the Chinese version of (y)our clown president. And I didn't mean to imply that Trump and Xi were colluding or conspiring together to somehow impoverish us. I just meant to say that these men are morons and their poor handling of this epidemic is going to damage our economies.

BUT, Trump and Xi are not as stupid or as brutal as George W. Bush. We can all thank God this pandemic didn't happen when W. was president. W. would have somehow killed millions of people.

Big Mike said...

to make people feel that competent people are working hard.

And perhaps the people “feel” that way because it is that way. The other part, and not unrelated, is that Trump displays a bias towards action. The federal bureaucracy is, by nature, cautious, risk averse, and slow-moving (except when their rice bowls are in any way challenged). This is not what is needed in a crisis! Trump gave the CDC and FDA a chance to show what they could do, but they got no second chance when they screwed up. Do something. If that doesn’t work, do something else. That’s how a country gets through a crisis.

P. S., Wife just reminded me that the CDC screwed up in another way. When the asymptomatic people from the Diamond Princess disembarked from the Air Force plane they were met by CDC workers, who were not wearing protective gear. What’s wrong with that, you ask? The asymptomatic people had been tested — but the test results would not be known for another whole day. Way to go bureaucrats.

narciso said...

governor sisolak, who at least one member on this board, is it yancey, is unfortunate enough to be under his aegis,

Automatic_Wing said...

@Spriros,

"For example, Oxford's Evolutionary Ecology of Infectious Disease group found that over 50% of the British population contracted Covid 19 in January and February. These people recovered and are now immune. If this is true, Covid 19's fatality rate is shockingly low. "


Let's be clear, the Oxford people didn't "find" anything - they built a computer model that spit out that result. We have no idea what the parameters of the model were and whether or not the assumptions it was based on were valid.

narciso said...

How many died in Wuhan, and honqquing and other places, even the whistleblowers died, whereas every step taken to secure this country, was greated with ridicule,

Michael K said...

This has always been a balance between panic and prudence, between Public Health and economic uncertainty. Sure a review if this year at some future point might reveal a simpler path but in the fog of “war” Trump has consistently made good choices.

Yes, when this is all over it would be helpful to learn just what all those people in Italy died from. How many were influenza and how many COVID 19? The dead will not be tested but convalescent serum testing would be interesting.

The hysteria is still coming from the left. Tucson city council, lefties all, have tried to convince the Governor of AZ to order total lockdown. The temp today is 84, the numbers are low and the population density is low. I stood in line for an hour yesterday at Costco for their "senior citizen" hour at 8 AM to buy paper towels and chicken and ground beef for the dog. Must have been a thousand in line. Lots of jokes about "snowbirds."

Gospace said...

Hubert the Infant said...
It might be because the Democrats' big issue is free healthcare for all, and this crisis is showing that our healthcare system is dreadful. Healthcare makes up almost a fifth of our GDP, but hospitals in NYC are already overwhelmed. How is that possible?


From another Althouse post: "Spanish Military Finds Dead Bodies And Seniors ‘Completely Abandoned’ In Care Homes.

Spain has universal health care. If you can get it, I guess.

Italy also has universal healthcare paid for by the state. People are being turned away from hospitals.

Stories about hospitals turning away new patients with coronavirus symptoms in nations with universal government supplied healthcare aren't that hard to find.

chuck said...

Looks like he took a hit during his early hard response, but as the seriousness of the situation starts to sink in -- icu overflow in some cities, infected hospital workers -- it is starting to look good. Infections are still increasing exponentially and I don't expect to see the curve bend much for another week or two.

narciso said...

we have learned to take every 'hair on fire' assertion, with a grain of salt, so the acme press, dials it up from eleven to fourteen,

steve uhr said...

GWB’s approval rating went from 51 to 88 after 9/11. Trump remains under 50%, and as more facts come out showing how the administration mishandled the crisis, it prob won’t go much higher.

Drago said...

Spiros:"Drago, Xi is the Chinese version of (y)our clown president. And I didn't mean to imply that Trump and Xi were colluding or conspiring together to somehow impoverish us. I just meant to say that these men are morons and their poor handling of this epidemic is going to damage our economies."

I think it is commendable that Spiros, unlike every other lefty, realizes that his carrying water for the Chinese Communists is going to cut it any longer so he does the next best thing! Compares Trump to a totalitarian commie dictator that the lefties have been lauding for years and supporting for decades!

You know, on second thought, I don't think Spiros gamed that one out completely, did he?

Temujin said...

Part of this is that much of the public has learned media speak. They know how to watch the media, translate what they are saying, and understand that they are picking, all the time, picking away at Trump. This has an exhausting effect to watch this over 3+ years. Even my normally Democratic voting wife has had enough of it. And the final straw for her was Pelosi's Christmas Wishlist to stop the bailout this week.

This all has an impact on making Trump appear as though he's at least serious about getting things done. Plus- prior to a world stopping disease, the economy had been doing pretty damned good.

But the other thing that has happened is Cuomo will be the nominee. He wanted it anyway. And now he's had the spotlight. His only job is to sound sane and look competent. For once, he's done both. (as long as people don't dig into his economics that have driving people out of his state and backroom politics, he'll be OK).

Ken B said...

Mike
Did you notice I was quoting?

Inga said...

“What sane folks are saying is that Covid-19 is MUCH LESS dangerous than the yearly flu.”

So Dr. Fauci must be insane?

Drago said...

Steve Uhr: "...and as more facts come out showing how the administration mishandled the crisis, it prob won’t go much higher."

Tell us more about these "facts"......

Are they "facts" like Russia collusion? Hoax dossiers? Gang rape leaders? Non-Quid pro quo phone calls?

Did Adam Schiff tell you these "facts" were on the way?

narciso said...

he hasn't been, not in the slightest, not reprioritize the ventilators, not timely order other medical supplies, one wonders how they have handled things in los angeles, considering they had a cholera outbreak not that long ago?

Howard said...

I for one hope Trump's ratings go through the stratosphere because it means we dodged a bullet.

Jim Gust said...

Biden won't get the nomination. He'll withdraw for health reasons by the convention, which will probably turn to Andrew Cuomo instead.

However, if things go badly in New York in the next two weeks, that would affect my prediction.

narciso said...

Beth Cameron's fan dance, didn't make that much of an impression, apparently,

Bruce Hayden said...

“ They should be [more worried] for several reasons.”

For at least the last century and a half, the Democrats have been the city party, while the Republicans have been the more rural party. The cities are their power base, where they get most of their fraudulent votes, and where the bulk of their politicians come from. And in the face of a pandemic, like COVID-19, they are far more vulnerable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, cities have been population sinks for centuries, with sickness typically killing enough people in the cities, to make room for new immigrants coming from the country, trying to better themselves.

The population density of NYC is several hundred times, at least, that of the county we live in in MT. There, in MT, you can safely walk down the streets, fairly confident that you won’t be infected by others on the streets. Just not enough people on the streets at any one time. Contrast that to getting to work in Manhattan, where you have to stand and walk in close proximity with hundreds, maybe even thousands, of strangers, riding the subway, etc. you get far enough out of cities, and you are effectively quarantined by the low population density, and, thus opportunities for infection.

Ken B said...

Let me spell it out Mike, to save time. Several people are taking Spiros and his fantasy seriously. I simply pointed out that everything he says depends on a very big IF. I am implying he should be ignored until he backs up his IF.

Drago said...

Inga: "So Dr. Fauci must be insane?"

Well, he seemed awfully unconcerned after thousands had died in 2009 from H1N1 and hundreds of thousands had been hospitalized.

That was when obama went golfing on the same day he declared a national emergency.

According to today's Lefty Rules, those are indeed the actions of mad men.

Flat Tire said...

The majority of Americans, regardless of their politics, pay much less attention than the readers of this blog. I think they are getting that "pay attention to what he does, not what he says" view. Plus he's moderated his behavior.

n.n said...

the Oxford people didn't "find" anything - they built a computer model

The model sets up an expectation which has not been observed. This suggests to them that the infection is widespread and has been for some time, and that the virus is either less effective than believed, or there is already large scale naturally acquired immunity, or both. There is a novel theory that the virus did not merely originate in Wuhan, but that it was made in their level-4 biolab. Not necessarily as a weapon, but perhaps as a a precursor to a vaccine, an incompletely attenuated virus that escaped their control into the wild. A real Raccoon City.

Meade said...

Howard said...
"I for one hope Trump's ratings go through the stratosphere because it means we dodged a bullet."

I for two.

Meade said...

Same re Cuomo.

Spiros said...

Automatic_Wing, why aren't epidemiologists bending over backwards to show people that their models might be wrong? Instead, these douchebags are insisting, with dead certainty, that tens of millions of people are going to die. They're on television ALL THE TIME and it's odd. I thought there was no certainty in science? No true or false, just more likely to be true or more likely to be false? These "scientists" are more like Michael Avenatti than real scientists.

Oh, and by the way, why should I trust your stupid climate models?

Ken B said...

INGA

Here is a useful link for the FLU FLU FLU covidiots https://www.sciencealert.com/the-new-coronavirus-isn-t-like-the-flu-but-they-have-one-big-thing-in-common

Lots of covidiots here.

AllenS said...

Trump 2020, 2024, 2028 and beyond!

Gospace said...

Kathryn51 said... a lot, and I agree.

I live in ruralville. I can't get pizza delivered. Much less groceries, medicines, or anything else. Well, except from Amazon and the like.

My job requires my physical presence. It's 36 miles away.

Several of my neighbors have been out lately prepping their fields. Too early to plant yet.

We do have DSL. It arrived in 2011. It was promised to us by January 2000. Now they're promising fiber optic any day now....

Lots of Amish in the area. I can't help but wonder how they're making out in all this. I know none of them have traveled to China, so there is that.... I'm sure they've noticed fewer cars speeding down the roads they live on.

Inga said...

Cuomo just said that 3% of those who tested positive are in the ICU.

Ken B said...


Howard said...
"I for one hope Trump's ratings go through the stratosphere because it means we dodged a bullet."

We all should.
I am a regular on a site where that is not true, where TDS is so strong they really would prefer him to fail.

As Meade said, Cuomo and Newsom too.

Drago said...

Meade: "Same re Cuomo."

We need an "all of the above" approach.
A vigorous public / private partnership.
An "everybody wins" approach.

Except for the idiot democrat Nevada governor who has decided to preclude his citizens having access to needed medicines.

Not to worry Nevadans! A thriving market with dr's offices opening up just across the state line will be springing up shortly.

Nonapod said...

Just checked the Covid Tracking Project Google Doc and currently both the number of deaths and the number of hospitalizations seem to be roughly doubling every two days (though both numbers are still relatively low). We're currently just over 800 dead and 4800 hospitalizations. Assuming this doubling continues, we'll be at 1600 dead and 9600 hospitalized by this time on Friday, and 3200 dead and 19200 hospitalized by this time on Sunday.

Drago said...

Inga: "Cuomo just said that 3% of those who tested positive are in the ICU."

Tell us more about this 3%.

Don't hold back now.

Skeptical Voter said...

Spiros a little political science and understanding of the federal system might help your argument. The various state governors (and for that matter lots of local city councils, including my own hometown) were the ones who issued the shutdown/lockdown orders. Trump does not have the authority to do that--and he didn't.

Trump could and did close the borders while the MSM and the various Democrat politicos (but that's a tautology) were screaming that it was racist and xenophobic to do so.

Are the lockdowns justified and necessary? I don't know. The corona virus is "novel" in that we've not seen it before. Given two or three year's time and development of an effective vaccine it might prove to be just one of the several different varieties of "flu" that take anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000 Americans each year on to their graves.

But for the moment corona virus is the pandemic that put the "pan" in panic.

Ken B said...

Inga
Notice how many comments are about Obama. That's a big motivation here: resentment over how the press treated Obama. It has blinded them.

Birkel said...

The efforts of several commenters here have not worked to decrease Trump's support.
Somebody place a wellness call, please.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Universal government controlled health care is not for the sick. It's for the elite and the healthy.
If you are sick inside a state-run system, you are screwed.

Ken B said...

Nonapod
And none of the commenters I named above will be the least bit fazed or inclined to rethink.

Hoss said...

Look for Cuomo to become the dem candidate during their convention. Or at least a push for him. Articles every day about how well he is handling the "crises".

Inga said...

“Tell us more about this 3%.

Don't hold back now.”

Why don’t you tell us who YOU think they are? As far as I’m concerned, they are all human beings.

Meade, pay attention to Drago.

Drago said...

Inga: Why don’t you tell us who YOU think they are?"

You brought them up. Not me.

Don't you remember that?

Is Biden Virus spreading amongst dems?

Fernandinande said...

Trump DID NOT have enough data to justify the shutdown.

Where and when did he authorize a shutdown?

Suggestions, not orders, from Whitehouse.gov -

Listen to and follow the directions of your state and local authorities.

If you feel sick, stay home. Do not go to work. Contact your medical provider.

If your children are sick, keep them at home. Contact your medical provider.

If someone in your household has tested positive for the Coronavirus, keep the entire household at home.

If you are an older American, stay home and away from other people.

If you are a person with a serious underlying health condition—such as a significant heart or lung problem—stay home and away from other people.


Your unthinking support of this man is stupid.

How about replacing the word "support" with "criticism"?

Drago said...

Banned Commenter Inga: "Meade, pay attention to Drago."

Discuss.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Ken B you should write so plainly every time! I completely agree with you that it all depends on an unrealistic IF that invalidates the rest of what Spiros wrote. Thanks for clarifying!

Michael K said...

steve uhr said...
GWB’s approval rating went from 51 to 88 after 9/11. Trump remains under 50%, and as more facts come out showing how the administration mishandled the crisis, it prob won’t go much higher.


Steve, you are operating under a couple of illusions. First, after 9/11 Democrats supported Bush, at least until they got the Patriot Act passed and signed. They even voted for the Iraq War. It wasn't until the casualties mounted that they suddenly got cold feet.

This year it is TDS hysteria 24/7

Meade said...

"In a few weeks, or a few months, the current situation will be behind us. Try to make sure that what’s remembered about you is something positive."

—Glenn Harlan Reynolds

Ken B said...

“ Tell us more about this 3%.”

They wouldn’t be there except for covid19.
They might die.
They are in severe distress.
There will be more of them, until we run out of ICU beds.

What else do you think is relevant Drago? What more information do you need to know if they matter? How they voted perhaps?

Ken B said...

Mike
Glad we clarified and agreed!
Thanks

Bay Area Guy said...

Is it a good thing to be called an "idiot" by an idiot?

Theoretically, that could make me a genius. This philosophical conundrum begs for deeper examination:)

Fact 1: US population 330 Million
Fact 2: US corona deaths - 785

Fact 3: That's 2.4 deaths per MILLION People.

Source: RCP

Opinion: By any metric known to science, medicine or public policy, that's a tiny number.

Inga said...

“Banned Commenter Inga”

If I was a banned commenter, my comments would not be allowed to stay up. I see Drago is spunky and wanting to derail the thread. That’s too bad, there are far more important things going on.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

But why do you call others covidiots?

Drago said...

Ken B: "What else do you think is relevant Drago? What more information do you need to know if they matter? How they voted perhaps?"

Yeah that's it.

Nothing statistical about the 3% testing positive or the larger group that was tested would be interesting at all. Or relevant I guess.

It's all about voter registration.

Well played Ken!

Rick said...

Ken B said...
Notice how many comments are about Obama. That's a big motivation here: resentment over how the press treated Obama. It has blinded them.


Comparing treatment of different people is a basic test of fairness - this is why it's a tenet of our legal and political systems. Describing it as resentment is wrong and reveals the speaker as biased and therefore their comments as unreliable.

narciso said...

how about the responsibility of state and local officials, Cuomo is being praised for just being there, as for Diblasio,

Rick said...

Drago - don't allow yourself to be distracted from your important work breadcrumbing ARM so he doesn't ruin this thread also.

Michael K said...

Inga: "Cuomo just said that 3% of those who tested positive are in the ICU."

It depends first on who is tested. If only those with symptoms are tested, that is probably accurate. There are two groups going to ICU, the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions like COPD and the young with Cytokine Storm, fortunately a very small group.

Early treatment with hydroxychloroquine and later treatment with remdesivir should cut down the number going to ICU. I don't know if rapid treatment is yet occurring in NYC.

The numbers going to ICU is not then death rate.

Ken B said...

“ Tell us more about this 3%.”

It wasn’t 3% testing positive. It was 3% of those testing positive being in the ICU. Not remotely the same thing. Get your excuses straight.

Drago said...

Rick: "Drago - don't allow yourself to be distracted from your important work breadcrumbing ARM so he doesn't ruin this thread also."

Funny, because its true.

Fernandinande said...

I especially appreciated the "without redemption" touch.

You're in good company with S&H Green Stamps.

Drago said...

Ken B: "It was 3% of those testing positive being in the ICU. Not remotely the same thing. Get your excuses straight."

LOL

What "excuses"?

I want to know more about this 3%.

If you told me that all 3% of those who tested positive were 60 years old and older, that means one thing.

If you told me that half of those admitted to the ICU who tested positive were infants and teenagers with no other complications, that means something....different.

But you know that.

You just want everyone to fall in line with you.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

‘Not Helpful’: Fauci Calls Out Media for ‘Pitting’ Him Against Trump

Ken B said...

“ Opinion: By any metric known to science, medicine or public policy, that's a tiny number.”

What’s the derivative?

Drago said...

But its clear now the operating principle of Ken B and Inga and the rest will be: nothing the dems do or say now can be questioned.

Because of course.

Spiros said...

I guess a lot of you are right. Trump is doing okay. Heck, if George W. Bush was president, we'd probably have a couple dozen oil refinery explosions to do deal with as well. (God forbid the price of oil falls below $ 200 a barrel.)

Ken B said...

Ah Drago, you are a marvel.

Drago said...
But its clear now the operating principle of Ken B and Inga and the rest will be: nothing the dems do or say now can be questioned.
——————-
Ken B said...
Perhaps it’s because he has been making good decisions. He shut down flights. He has listened to scientific advice. He has forced the FDA and other agencies to adapt, fast. He has worked well and helpfully with governors. Perhaps he deserves a little approval.

I haven’t liked everything he said. That’s unimportant if what he *does* is sensible. So far it seems to be
—————.

Inga said...

“I want to know more about this 3%.

If you told me that all 3% of those who tested positive were 60 years old and older, that means one thing.

If you told me that half of those admitted to the ICU who tested positive were infants and teenagers with no other complications, that means something....different.”

Sanctity of life must mean something different to Drago.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
Meade, pay attention to Drago.


Nah. I say let him run free. He doesn't actually help any of the causes he is nominally supporting. The opposite in general.

Browndog said...

Shouting Thomas said...

Identity politics has killed the Democratic Party.


Maybe.

however, the pervasive ideology of the marxist/communist/progressives remains with us and will probably be the seat of power in our lifetime.

Not because we chose it, but because it was forced on us through deceptive means.

narciso said...

the idiot savant Trudeau shipped all the masks to china, it's like a macabre sctv sketch, the public health commissioner in nyc was all about sjw signaling, and lets skip commission member levine for a bit,

Stephen said...

Bay Area guy writes: What sane folks are saying is that Covid-19 is MUCH LESS dangerous than the yearly flu.

Citations please. The data I am seeing estimate rate of infection as higher, death rate as higher assuming optimal care and as much higher if hospitals become overloaded.

Drago said...

Spiros: "Heck, if George W. Bush was president, we'd probably have a couple dozen oil refinery explosions to do deal with as well. (God forbid the price of oil falls below $ 200 a barrel.)"

???????

What?

Oil prices under Trump have never been above $80/barrel and have been below $125/barrel since the 1970's (with one brief spike during the 2008 financial crisis).

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Biden will lead us to a future full of wonderment.
Feel the power. Feel the wow.

“And uh, and, and in addition to that, uh, and in addition to that, we have to, uh, make sure that we, uh, we are in a position that we are, well, lemme, lemme go a second thing. I’ve spoken enough on that ”

-Joe Biden, shadow president.

wholelottasplainin' said...

Spiros said...
Drago, Xi is the Chinese version of (y)our clown president. And I didn't mean to imply that Trump and Xi were colluding or conspiring together to somehow impoverish us. I just meant to say that these men are morons and their poor handling of this epidemic is going to damage our economies
******************************
Apparently, world leaders are morons, but

As Khan used to say on "King of the Hill":

Your ass is GENIUS!!!

S N O R T

Drago said...

Inga: "Sanctity of life must mean something different to Drago."

Wow.

Ken B and Inga and ARM really don't like it when you ask questions of Cuomo and the dems.

I mean they really don't like it.

Inga said...

“But its clear now the operating principle of Ken B and Inga and the rest will be: nothing the dems do or say now can be questioned.”

Everything is a political fight to Drag. Not one of my comments on this thread or even during this national emergency has been partisan. Nothing Drag says is non partisan, not even WHO is in the ICU in New York City.

Drago said...

Its always interesting when the party of infanticide the selling off of "baby parts" (while cackling with laughter in the Planned Parenthood undercover videos shows) decides to talk about "sanctity of life".

pacwest said...

Same re Cuomo.

While I agree that Cuomo is doing a good job, his concerns are local, not national. He is proposing that he should be able to draw on other regional resources (ventilators etc.) until NY has peaked, and he will "personally guarantee" that those resources will be released to other hotspots as they peak later and NY doesn't need them. Very good in theory, but if the virus doesn't cooperate by peaking in other regions at the right time, or NY's peak is delayed is he going to give up the resources? His plan is 'me first' and is logical to the degree that NY is hardest and soonest hit. What if the resources are allocated to him, and become needed elsewhere? Good luck getting them back. He is also calling on the House to allocate more of the stimulus to NY. He has a very good presence on TV, and I hope he is threading the needle correctly, but he is local, as he should be, and Trump is national, as he should be. There is bound to be friction between these competing interests. He has yet to do a stonger lockdown which also says something about his political interests.

Banjo said...

I wonder that people still have the smallest faith in polling given its sad record. Sifting through the guts of a goat freshly slain on the temple steps seems as reliable. Those the pollsters telephone are likely to regard them with the same suspicion they do modern journalists pushing their various agendas. Trust has been lost in the media and I'm betting it will never be regained. Their antagonism toward at least half the country is so pronounced it has sunk in even with the lo-infos who grew up thinking you got the straight dope from the alphabet networks. All that's changed now. No graduate of J-schools is an honest broker of the news because of all the brainwashing soaked up in the academy. It is an epistemological question and the theorizing left, as always, is a sword's point with real world experience. Nobody buys their "We know better" malarkey, as Joe would say. In case of Trump, whatever his faults, it is a case of who are you going to believe the media or your lying eyes? The answer is why he is doing so well and why the networks decided to get him off the screens.

Spiros said...

Drago, W. was a disaster. 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, the financial crisis, etc. I mean, if that dude was president right now, the death tally would be in the millions. W. was a real sick loser. Trump is a huge step up. And we can thank God for that at least.

Yancey Ward said...

Kate nailed it with her comment- it is the elitism of "work from home" salaried people and all the paid holidays for the government class that Trump leans into very effectively. In other words, a majority of adults see that Trump is the realist in the room, even when he is on stage with all the experts. This idea that the economy could be shuttered for 3-6-9 months is just fucking insane nonsense- it really is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Spiros, if the comment isn't just tongue in cheek, is the first indication of where the Democrats are retreating to. They will attack Trump for overreaction if COVID-19 doesn't end up killing at least as many people in the US as the common flu.

At a more fundamental level- mature adults understand that COVID-19 isn't Trump's fault, and they won't fault him for the economic consequences arising from it just due to the stance he has taken already. It was never likely that the voters would turn him out of office in November because of what happens with this virus- it would be an incredible historic anomaly for Americans to change horses in the middle of a crisis. The only reason they voted for Roosevelt over Hoover was that Hoover had 3 years to fix things and didn't. Trump won't be in that position in November.

Drago said...

Inga: "Everything is a political fight to Drag. Not one of my comments on this thread or even during this national emergency has been partisan. Nothing Drag says is non partisan, not even WHO is in the ICU in New York City."

Statistics are now political and must not be addressed. (we knew that from before when the dems declared math to be a tool of the patriarchy and inherently racist)

Democrats cannot be questioned otherwise you don't care about human life.

You know, something tells me adopting those positions are, in themselves, quite political.

Ken B said...

Drago
You misread laughter. I like it when you dig the hole deeper.
As for Inga I dislike her politics but she is acting like a morally serious person. Unlike some.

Inga said...

‘“Its always interesting when the party of infanticide the selling off of "baby parts" (while cackling with laughter in the Planned Parenthood undercover videos shows) decides to talk about "sanctity of life".”

It’s interesting to see the mask slip and the in your face hypocrisy when Drag considers the sanctity of life as it pertains to those over 60.

Drago said...

Yancey Ward: "Spiros, if the comment isn't just tongue in cheek, is the first indication of where the Democrats are retreating to. They will attack Trump for overreaction if COVID-19 doesn't end up killing at least as many people in the US as the common flu."

It is certainly strange how violently the left reacts when you being to dig into relevant statistical information about who is sick and in what ways.

wholelottasplainin' said...

What's the 3% based on?

Fauci et al have said that unless you have symptoms, you should not request a test. Hospitals won't give you one--unless you are a powerful mucky-muck.

So.....3% of those who have symptoms AND show up at a hospital to be tested are positive.

But what percentage of the population did not go to a hospital?

But how many of those who went develop severe cases?

How many who were never tested got well on their own? How many of such folk died?

IOW 3% of WHAT?

Better file this under "Inga bites Dog".





narciso said...

that would be Ezekiel emmmanuel, the ipab guy, who is an advisor to biden, if it were his want, elder americans would be the last considered in health care prioritization,

Drago said...

Ken B: "As for Inga I dislike her politics but she is acting like a morally serious person. Unlike some."

It is now morally unserious to ask about the statistics of those who are ill.

Drago said...

narciso: "that would be Ezekiel emmmanuel, the ipab guy, who is an advisor to biden, if it were his want, elder americans would be the last considered in health care prioritization,"

Team Death Panels is now attempting to shift that reputation onto others.

It's the same old thing, every single day.

Spiros said...

Yancey, I don't get the work at home stuff either. Lots of people are acting like this is a paid vacation and it's maddening. And what kind of person wants to stay in his house for 22 or 23 hours a day? What the hell? There's only so much yard work you can do. I've already chopped down two trees in my backyard out of boredom. I might have to re-surface my deck so I don't get cabin fever.

chuck said...

So.....3% of those who have symptoms AND show up at a hospital to be tested are positive.

Uh... no. About 8% test positive except for NY, where it is about 28%.

Jersey Fled said...

Just checked the Covid Tracking Project Google Doc and currently both the number of deaths and the number of hospitalizations seem to be roughly doubling every two days (though both numbers are still relatively low). We're currently just over 800 dead and 4800 hospitalizations. Assuming this doubling continues, we'll be at 1600 dead and 9600 hospitalized by this time on Friday, and 3200 dead and 19200 hospitalized by this time on Sunday.

And the entire population of the U.S. will be dead by sometime on April 29th.

Amazing what you can do with Excel and 5 minutes of spare time.

Drago said...

wholelottasplainin': "What's the 3% based on?

Fauci et al have said that unless you have symptoms, you should not request a test. Hospitals won't give you one--unless you are a powerful mucky-muck.

So.....3% of those who have symptoms AND show up at a hospital to be tested are positive.

But what percentage of the population did not go to a hospital?

But how many of those who went develop severe cases?

How many who were never tested got well on their own? How many of such folk died?

IOW 3% of WHAT?"

Wholelotta, by asking these simple questions you have, according to Ken B, made yourself "morally unserious" and according to Inga, you do not believe in the sanctity of life.

Ray - SoCal said...

>without media commentary

Media is going after Trump at the press conference, later with commentary, and now the major networks only show the first part.
https://www.usnews.com/news/entertainment/articles/2020-03-23/networks-face-decision-how-long-to-stick-with-trump

Contrast this with the video of Biden at his first video conference, that mentioned Governor Charlie Parker.

And two major Democratic Governors are saying positive things about Trump, Newsom and Comey.

Inga said...

Cuomo said 3% of those hospitalized for Covid are in the ICU. I believe he said 13% of those who tested positive with symptoms are hospitalized. I’m looking for a transcript of Cuomos news conference ego double check that 13%.

Drago said...

Inga: "Cuomo said 3% of those hospitalized for Covid are in the ICU. I believe he said 13% of those who tested positive with symptoms are hospitalized. I’m looking for a transcript of Cuomos news conference ego double check that 13%."

Suddenly, as if by magic, speaking more about the statistics of those tested and hospitalized in NY ICU's is no longer "morally unserious" and does not mean one does not believe in the "sanctity of life".

Whew!

Had me worried there for about 10 minutes.

Browndog said...

Cuomo has the exact same liberal objectives as the rest of them.

Because he doesn't sound nuts when he talks a lot of people thinks he stands apart from them.

All any of the 300 dem candidates for President had to do is not sound nuts to remain a viable candidate, but they couldn't help it. That's how they end up with Bernie/Biden.

Rick said...

Ken B said...
As for Inga I dislike her politics but she is acting like a morally serious person. Unlike some.

'
The person who describes others's search for realism as "resentment" is appointing himself the arbiter or moral seriousness, and as such praises the moral seriousness of someone claims her opponents want to create The Handmaid's Tale here in America.

Life is absurd sometimes.

Mattman26 said...

So 888 souls in New York State (out of a population of 20 million) are in ICU with coronavirus. That's sad for each and every one, but does it really tell us anything of value that cold help guide public policy? I think not. (But the fact that it's 0.00444 percent of the state is somewhat of a relief.)

And if those 888 people make up 3 percent of those who tested positive in the state, does that tell us anything of value? Again, I think not. It certainly doesn't suggest that 3 percent of coronavirus victims will end up in the ICU, since "those who tested positive" is almost surely a tiny proportion of those who have contracted the virus. Without an accurate estimate of just how tiny that proportion is, the three percent figure tells us nothing meaningful.

Leland said...

I think Trump is doing a great job, but I've come to a decision that more needs to be done. I therefore ask that Trump shutdowns the non-essential parts of the federal government until this health emergency is over. No backpay. Just the same checks everyone else is getting.

Drago said...

Mattman26: "So 888 souls in New York State (out of a population of 20 million) are in ICU with coronavirus. That's sad for each and every one, but does it really tell us anything of value that cold help guide public policy? I think not. (But the fact that it's 0.00444 percent of the state is somewhat of a relief.)

And if those 888 people make up 3 percent of those who tested positive in the state, does that tell us anything of value? Again, I think not. It certainly doesn't suggest that 3 percent of coronavirus victims will end up in the ICU, since "those who tested positive" is almost surely a tiny proportion of those who have contracted the virus. Without an accurate estimate of just how tiny that proportion is, the three percent figure tells us nothing meaningful."

Sorry Mattman.

It appears you too have succumbed to the "moral unseriousness" standard Ken B has established by using the dreaded "using statistics to understand what is happening" witchcraft thinking.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
narciso said...

wait what

Inga said...

“Suddenly, as if by magic, speaking more about the statistics of those tested and hospitalized in NY ICU's is no longer "morally unserious" and does not mean one does not believe in the "sanctity of life".”

Nice try trying to squeak out of intimating that the 3% in ICU didn’t matter because they were over 60. We all know what you meant. Your mask slipped.

Earnest Prole said...

American presidents typically see their approval numbers break a minimum of 60-40 in times of national crisis, so to not break even represents a remarkable achievement.

narciso said...

all of us, who have said 'flatlining the economy' for a month, is a stupid exercise, are considered callous, which talking point is operating,

Bay Area Guy said...

@Yancey Ward

"Kate nailed it with her comment- it is the elitism of "work from home" salaried people and all the paid holidays for the government class that Trump leans into very effectively"

Can I put on my serious hat for a brief moment?

I totally, emphatically, and proudly concur with this statement.

It is a LUXURY for some folks to be able to work from home, and receive the same steady paycheck. Most folks do not have this luxury. Those are the folks I am concerned about. Those are the folks who are gonna get hardest hit from the government response to the viral pandemic.

Yes, there is a risk from the virus. Nobody denies that. Some folks -- the fear-mongerers -- want to exaggerate this risk, and aren't thinking hard enough about the subsequent risk to people's lives from shutting down the economy.

Myself, I have evaluated the risk from the virus. It is small. Much smaller than the seasonal flu. I have also evaluated the risk of shutting down the government. For folks on govt pensions or govt workers, they will do fine. For blue collar folks, it will be brutal.

After comparing the risks, I conclude that healthy low-risk folks (under 70, no symptoms) should return to work as soon as possible.

Drago said...

Inga: "Nice try trying to squeak out of intimating that the 3% in ICU didn’t matter because they were over 60."

Ahhh yes.

The inevitable fallback position of the liar.

I "intimated" something.

In the very same way Carter Page "intimated" he was a russian spy and Kavanaugh, by his answers, "intimated" he was a gang rapist.

Both of the above Inga believes passionately.

So no crazy "Trump wants to create the HandMaids Tale in the US" girl, your assessments of "intimations" don't cut it.

Now get back to your support of the infanticide party and leave the lecturing on the sanctity of human life to those who mean it.

Mattman26 said...

Thank you, Drago. I will try to work through this in my next Struggle Session.

mockturtle said...

Pacwest observes: 4. People are looking beyond their usual sources of information on what is really happening. Once you're outside the bubble things look different.

Yes. Even my lib sister watches the daily briefings. And most sane people realize that this is not the time for political wrangling and obstinate Trump-hate.

steve uhr said...

Michael K Your logic escapes me. After 9/11 Democrats in large numbers supported Bush. Now, Democrats are not supporting Trump. My point is that maybe Trump supporters should not get too excited by the modest jump in his approval numbers given the circumstances . Maybe his numbers will go up as more people die. Maybe they will go down. Idk

Drago said...

Mattman26: "Thank you, Drago. I will try to work through this in my next Struggle Session."

Ah, a Maoist tactic call out. Nicely done.

Heatshield said...

I think Trump's numbers are rising because he's getting most of the big things right. His early travel ban from China was clearly the right call and the doctors have praised him for it several times. Dems called it racist as usual and it cost them (and the commercials in the fall will kill them). Same for his somewhat shocking (at the time) travel ban from Europe. Very dramatic, very presidential, strong leadership - and backed by the doctors. He daily briefings help him because he looks like a leader in time of crisis. He's calling up the National Guard. Ordering Navy hospital ships deployed. Talking hopefully about alternative medicines - maybe too hopefully - but people want to hope. Same thing with looking forward to coming out of this. Maybe premature talk, but people want hope. He got elected because he read the mood of the people better than all the pundits and professional politicians. I think he's doing it again.

Drago said...

Heatshield: "I think Trump's numbers are rising because he's getting most of the big things right."

I don't know about that.s

Apparently Steve Uhr has acquired some sort of Inga-like mindreading abilities and he, instead of Knowing What Mueller Knows, knows what Facts Will Emerge Which Drive Trump Numbers Down.

It's all very secretive and on the down low naturally.

MayBee said...

Cuomo just said we will find that Covid was here much earlier than has been reported. Yancy Ward and Achilles, among others, have been saying that for days.

Cuomo also just said the largest cohort of Covid havers, we will find, are people who never knew they had it- no symptoms or not enough to get tested.

MayBee said...

Trump must be doing well because Democrats are pushing to have his press conferences taken off tv, and at least one NPR station in Seattle is complying.

Buckwheathikes said...

https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2019/06/FY20-Expense-Revenue-and-Capital-Report.pdf

Here's the New York City budget. It's $95 billion - yes folks BILLION - per year.

I see money spent on pets; money spent on tree stumps; money spent on Transgender Health Training.

No ventilators, tho.

That's weird. It's almost like choices were made and are still being made. Priorities they're called.

Money for transgender health care training, but no ventilators.

Fernandinande said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
narciso said...

russia flack girl, removes all doubt again

Sebastian said...

Slightly OT:

Just got back from the store.

Old people out and about.

Nuts.

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