From the Reuters article, a quote from Trump: "He seems very nice, but I don't know how he'd play within his own country. And we really aren't up to that point yet. I don't know whether or not his country would accept his leadership, and certainly if they would, that would be fine with me."
I know he's not the Shah. Not yet. Just testing the concept on you after Meade called him the Shah. I said he's not the Shah, and Meade said it was like addressing a nun as "Sister" when you're not Catholic. I said: "You mean like using someone's preferred pronouns?" It doesn't matter what you think the person really is, you're showing respect.
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100 comments:
I don't believe you have to be Catholic to address a nun as sister. It is used in place of Miss or Ms.
Capitalized I believe?
garner (the word!)
Trump should impose Reza from Shahs of Sunset. He’s already on a Peacock Throne. How can the Dems or the euros oppose a big gay queen? Andy Cohen can be his minister of information. CC, JSM
It's a valid point. Pahlavi fled Iran at the age of 19, he's now 65. Do the Irani's know him or is he just a symbol they've latched on to.
I've been thinking about getting in touch with our former nextdoor neighbors, who are Persian, to check on their families back in Iran and incidentally take the temperature on this issue. I haven't done it so far because i think I need to learn more about this crown prince or whatever he is - but really, the important thing is to ask them, I suppose. I do know that our friends, and their friends from Iran whom we've met, are all in the US because of the repression in Iran.
He's the Crown Prince. The citizens will vote on whether or not he will become the Shah. Then he, or whoever, will be Shah.
Well, it's wrong to call him the Shah when he isn't the Shah. Maybe we should use s Venezuelan convention and call him a Shahtito. Pobrecito.
The Persian people are actually pretty smart. They understood from the start that there had to be a transition government.
I don't know if the Shah is smart enough to realize he is a puppet that has to act tough and leader like.
I dont think thats how it works in farsi
Im sure hes been mulling policy, hes had a long time
Marco Rubio is going to run Iran.
Duh.
I enjoy the use of the monolithic “Trump” in media. As if they tremble in awe and frustrated defiance.
I guess that it comes down to whether the people living in Iran want the restoration of a hereditary monarchy or not. They haven’t had one in the living memory of most of them. The last Shah was fairly repressive, which is how the mullahs came to power in the first place.
Someone should ask the White House whether they intend to intercept or commandeer Iranian oil tankers bound for China.
"Shah, Shah, Ayatollah so."
Robin Williams
Actually he wasnt that was the black legend that mossadecq supporters like bani sadr spread
It might have been ok to continue to call his father the Shah after he was deposed, but the son has never been Shah so I don't see the rationale for applying the title to him.
If we engage in regime change, it should be in the direction of democracy, not replacing a religious king with a secular king.
Meanwhile the foreign minister abusively lies to bret bauer and he doesnt correct him
We could revive the term Pretender to the Throne.
Is he the Shah in Exile? The Pretender to the Crown?
Jinx
I vote to call him “The Crown Prince”. That’s respectful and the Iranians will understand its meaning. Up to them to proceed from there.
Trump is probably correct, though. All Iranians are not Persian. The non-Persians may not want a Restoration of the monarchy.
Shah-adjacent?
Shah Diddy
The current chief ayatollah is azeri
Shah? Nah, nah.
I’ve seen claims that Pahlavi sees his potential role as Shah after transition as a constitutional monarch rather than an absolute ruler. I think he might see it as more like the clone of the Emperor Kahless from Star Trek as a symbol of the Klingon people and culture, and less like the limited role of the British monarch.
All the middle east experts got it wrong bulliet falk et al
The question is how to restore a society to something resembling normality after two three generations
He was officially named the Crown Prince of Iran at his father’s coronation in 1967.
How do the gulf state emirs do it
"..Im sure hes been mulling policy, hes had a long time.."
Ah. So, he's been living on the East Coast - does that make him a 'mullah' ?
Iswdt but no
LA is the exile headquarters it used to be Paris
Bonnie Prince Pah-lie. CC, JSM
I await to hear what Patrick Bet-David has to say about this.
Apologies to Sly and the Family Stone…
Most often wrong, but never in doubt,
Their people ain’t fooled, say throw the bums out!
The goon squad, the mullah, the beekeeper suit
Beseeching Allah ain’t bearing no fruit
They are Islamic peoples, yeah, yeah
There is a Shiite who can't accept the Sunni
Six of one, half a dozen, both seem kinda looney
But different strokes for different folks
And so on and so on and Scooby-Dooby-Dooby
Ewwww shah, shah
I think it’s tricky to replace a government that’s a theocratic organization. All those true believers are going to be extremely resistant to accepting a Westernized leader. I think Pahlavi is popular with the people but not with the religious Iranians in the bureaucracy.
Somebody should ask Obama that those goverment grift -paid "shovel-ready jobs" are the shovel-ready gang thugs his party is paying to violently attack people in MN...
Trump is probably correct, though. All Iranians are not Persian. The non-Persians may not want a Restoration of the monarchy.
I think it's something like 60% are Persians and other closely related Iranic peoples who speak Indo-European languages, 25% Turkic Azeris, and the rest predominantly Kurds but with a mishmash of other minor tribes in the borderlands near Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Some of the Persians, too, probably don't want to go back to the days of SAVAK, no matter how much they hate the mullahs.
Trump's question is reasonable. The anti-theocracy revolution is real and massive. It could not be otherwise or it would not have persisted so long. But the enthusiasm for a return to monarchy, may be illusory. A hundred thousand chanting slogans favoring Palavi isn't a reliable guide to the sentiments of ninety million Iranians. We should all know this by now. Slogan chanters tend to represent the minority opinion -- not always, but usually. We see this clearly every day. I'm not saying the anti-theocrats who fill the streets of Tehran are as demented as the people Tim Walz relies on in Minnesota, that's statistically impossible. I'm saying it's a wise policy to not make assumptions with such dubious evidence as cellphone video.
I’ve seen claims that Muslims are a minority of the people in Iran, particularly in the younger generations. Still the plurality. Any data about religious affiliation in the country is suspect, though.
Now, the Trump he told the Rubio men, "You have to let that MAGA drop"
The oil down the Venez-way, has been shaken to the top
The Musk he drove his Teh-es-la, he went a-cruising down the ville
Little X was a-standing on the radiator grille, ow!
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
By order of the Hegseth, we ban that boogie sound
Degenerate the faithful, with that crazy Tehran sound
But the RFK he brought out, the electric camel bum
The local guitar picker got his guitar picking thumb
As soon as the Shah he cleared Spago's, they began to wail
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
Now, over at Mar-Lago, oh, they really pack 'em in
The in-crowd say, "It's cool to dig this Gatsby thing"
But as the wind changed direction and the Marco band took fire
The crowd caught a whiff, of that crazy Tehran jive!
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
Bibi called up his transport planes, he said, "You better earn your pay
Drop the Shah between the minarets, down the Tehran way"
As soon as the Shah he was chauffeured onto there
The jet pilots tuned to the cockpit radio blare
Soon as the Shah had wind in his hair, the jet pilots wailed
Shah he might like it
Rockin' the Tehran, rock the Tehran
&c
(doesn't make much sense - just I always mondegreened the song as "Shah he don't like it," and then I just crammed as many 47 Admin names in as I could) CC, JSM
Dis is not kosher!, Mr.Mosby 👌
The dictionary definition of “pretender” doesn’t have his picture but it does have this example:
“The Pahlavi pretender himself certainly thinks so.
—Bobby Ghosh, Time, 9 Jan. 2026”
Iman - thanks! Your Everyday People takeoff is cool, too! CC, JSM
Bobby Dhoosh?
The one thing we've learned in 50 years is not to count on anything happening in Iran. Secular, progressive grad students demonstrated against the shah and they got rule by the mullahs. Since Iran's revolution American officials have been expecting the Iranian government to turn back to the West and it never happens. There's a big gap between the affluent, educated cities and the rest of the country.
I remember watching the shah's ceremony commemorating millennia of existence for Persia/Iran and the peacock throne and my dad saying, "This guy's dad only took power in 1919." Trump knows that. So do most Iranians. The country may not be longing to have the Pahlavis back in power.
The Baloch are going to be a problem. They are as a group intensely hostile toward the Islamic Republic. But their history under the Shah raises questions. Like any minority anywhere, they long for some degree of autonomy, but are too dilute to make autonomy work. They are the Ruthenians of the Near East.
Continuation of the Shahdom is a blind alley, you either reject medievalism or you do not, you don’t go from one form to another. The Shah could be supportive, or he could run for office later, but the mullahs can use the history of the Shah to delegitimatize the revolt if he plays a starring role. Darth Vader can’t lead the revolt against the Emperor.
Actually he wasnt that was the black legend that mossadecq supporters like bani sadr spread
SAVAK was pretty brutal on Communists and Islamists, which I see as a legitimate and praiseworthy function of any government. But the repression spilled over to ordinary dissidents and critics who were not a threat worthy of the treatment they got.
Cf. Mark Twain's "O'Shah"
History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme, as someone said.
“I know he's not the Shah. Not yet. Just testing the concept on you after Meade called him the Shah.”
Him? Pahlavi or Trump?
According to one side, Iran hanged a whole bunch of Israeli spies and agitators who were fomenting violence and starting chants in Tehran like "Hey hay! Hoe Ho, Israel says you've got to go" and jamming Starlink, which brought the demonstrations to a grinding halt, and millions showed up for pro-government counterdemonstrations, and the crisis is over, unless Trump strikes again hard, which he might do at any minute. And that since this won't stop, Iran will be forced by game theory considerations to shut down 36% of the world's oil by scuttling ships in the five or six dredged out paths that can accommodate supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz.
According to the other side, the Mullah is on his last legs, this is a totally Iranian rejection of their leaders, supported by 90% of the population hates them, Iran would never dare shut down the Straits because it would make its neighbors mad, and that a simple push by the US will topple the regime.
I have no way of knowing, so I wait because time usually tells, except where the secrets are really buried deep, and I am not there, so I wait to see.
Don't forget the MEK. They are patiently waiting in Albania, of all places. CC, JSM
Althouse said...
I said he's not the Shah, and Meade said it was like addressing a nun as "Sister" when you're not Catholic.
Meade, time to show Althouse your "Oh, Face."
Oh, pshaw!
Iran and Russia are both guilty of being "evil" which translates to "They are too big, and too powerful." China is also guilty of this crime.
It's like if you were playing chess, and of course, the game is usually a struggle for control of the center of the board, and you explain to spectators that the reason you are taking control of those squares is because "your opponent is evil."
Although you might say that to the pawns you were about to sacrifice.
Winner as always, john mosby!
The Shah is a really cool sounding title. Who wouldn't want to be called the Shah?
Of course I had put AI on it. As it turns out, Shah is just one of many cool sounding titles.
"Here are some other cool-sounding royal and noble titles:
Sultan: An Arabic title meaning "ruler" or "authority", used in many Muslim states and empires, notably the Ottoman Empire. The grander version is Sultan of Sultans (Sulṭānü's-Selāṭīn).
Khan: A historical title of leadership in Central and East Asia, famously associated with the Mongol Empire (e.g., Genghis Khan). The supreme version is Khagan (Great Khan).
Tsar (or Czar): A Slavic title for a monarch, derived from the Roman title Caesar, used by Russian and Bulgarian emperors.
Pharaoh: The general term for the monarchs of ancient Egypt, a title that is instantly recognizable and evocative of immense power.
Kaiser: The German and Austrian title for "Emperor", also derived from Caesar.
Emir (or Amir): An Arabic title for a commander, general, or high-ranking prince/governor.
Rajah (or Rana): A title for a monarch or princely ruler in South and Southeast Asia. An imperial version is Maharajah ("Great King").
Archon: An ancient Greek word meaning "ruler" or "lord", often used for a chief magistrate.
Basileus: The ancient Greek term for "king", notably used by the Byzantine emperors.
Imperator: The original Latin title for "commander" which evolved into the term "Emperor" in the Roman Empire.
For a truly powerful sound, you can use the original Persian title for an Emperor:
Shahanshah: Literally meaning "King of Kings". Other "King of Kings" equivalents from history include Maharajadhiraja (India), Negusa Nagast (Ethiopia), and Malik al-Muluk (Arabic)."
That reminds me of the western titleViceroy. It sounds... cool. Little bit.
What about The Shazam... A present from Uncle Sam to the people's of Iran.
Lem Vibe Bandit said...
Rajah (or Rana): A title for a monarch or princely ruler in South and Southeast Asia. An imperial version is Maharajah ("Great King").
It has the same proto-Indo-European origin as the Latin word rex (re/re/roi in modern Spanish/Italian/French) also meaning king.
Lem Vibe Bandit said...
"That reminds me of the western titleViceroy. It sounds... cool. Little bit."
Viceroy always makes me think of someone who is king of the vice.
Memeorandum, Son of Drudgereport?
Viceroy always makes me think of cigarettes. Cellulose-acetate filter. A thinking man's filter, a smoking man's taste. All the taste, all the time.
I'm indebted to the work of amir taheri, who has illuminated the pre revolutionary regime
i'm sure there were excessses but compared to what came after, just like the way Al Sharaa's regime is excused in their actions,
iran is probably nominally majority moslem but then there are other other sects,
zoroastrians was the group I was thinking about
until the Revolution, the right people accepted the Maronites should be in charge in Lebanon, currently the Hezbollah dominant regime, encourages that fiction with the Lebanese
army chiefs, but we know who they report to,
Ciso, at first glance I thought you said Al Sharpton. CC, JSM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...
The Shah is a really cool sounding title. Who wouldn't want to be called the Shah?
True, but I was always partial to "Potentate."
Perhaps just as we derived the title "Caesar" and its German. variant "Kaiser" from Julius Caesar's name, we should invent the title of "Trump."
no, I don't entirely trust the artist formerly known as Golani, because of events like we saw in Palmyra,
The ancient Greeks called the Persian ruler Megas Basileus--the Great King.
I doubt that Pahlavi Junior really has much support. As has been pointed out, his dynasty dates all the way back to the early 20th C, and they weren't all that popular.
IIRC the founder of the Pahlavi dynasty was a jumped-up border guard.
if more serves he was a Russian trained army officer, but you got to start somewhere,
Jaq said...
According to one side, …
Those are legitimate characterizations.
In this situation we the United States need to make a decision based on our interests.
The United States clearly benefits most by kicking the Mullahs out and letting the Jews set up a Persian puppet government.
the mullahs are not as influential as the pasdaran, the security forces,
He's the Shahvich.
Padishah Emperor of the Universe would be pretty cool. But don't mention it to the Don.
Shah is a hereditary position, so he is the Shah of Iran. Whether he's in exile, a figure-head, ruler or something between, he's still the Shah.
"... is there good reason to refer to him as the Shah?
In 1980, following the death of his father in exile in Cairo, Egypt, Reza Pahlavi declared himself shah of Iran, styling himself "Reza Shah II"
Works for me.
I'm curious as to Reza's age for no real reason. The internets tell me 65.
"Shah is a hereditary position, so he is the Shah . . . ."
Who did his grandpappy inherit from?
Royalty has a bad track record, both in Europe and elsewhere. Usually, they're mediocrities and lack the political skills and guts neccessary to rule. After they got deposed most of them were content to leave politics to others. Or they came back as powerless constitutional monarchs.
The Iranian Royal family showed they were unfit to rule. Nobody wants them back. Good Grief, imagine King Charles having any power - what a disaster that would be.
The European monarchs of 1914-1918 were responsible for the disaster that befell Europe. A senseless war ending in Communism and later Fascism. Almost everyone of them were gutless boobs. They meant well - feebley.
Calling Pahlavi "Shah" is like calling Franz von Bayern "King of the United Kingdom". The difference is that Pahlavi apparently wants to be Shah, whereas Bayern does not press any claim to be King.
Also, Trump is right to question whether Iranians would accept Pahlavi. Rejecting theocracy doesn't mean they want monarchy.
Want to avoid another Hamid Karzai
It was founded in 1925 by Reza Shah Pahlavi (originally Reza Khan), a military officer of modest, non-aristocratic Mazanderani origins. He rose to power through a 1921 coup, became prime minister, and then had the Iranian parliament (Majlis) depose the previous Qajar dynasty in late 1925. Reza Khan was declared Shah on December 15, 1925, officially establishing the Pahlavi dynasty, and was formally crowned on April 25, 1926.
"Want to avoid another Hamid Karzai"
And another Ahmed Chalabi.
Headline: "Fake crown prince wants dead dad's 1980s job as fake Shah". Shah was created by CIA, not by bloodline.
No if anything mi 6 deposed his father because of his pro axis sympathies
His grandfather,
The situation is similar to prince farouk who was deposed by nasser in 1953
Trump's comments about Pahlavi are almost exactly the same as his comments about Machado.
I read it as--"Just because you deep staters want to put this person in charge, doesn't mean I'm playing along."
He doesnt want to play favorites
History is full of pretenders to thrones who cause no end of mischief, especially when there are several with competing claims. If the Iranians want to use this guy as a rallying point, good for them. But it could end in tears, as it did for his Dad.
Guy who has never garnered 50% of the vote questions other guy's support.
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