From "Republicans Block Effort to Check Trump’s Power in Venezuela/G.O.P. leaders succeeded in pressuring fellow senators who initially supported the measure that would have limited President Trump’s military authority in Venezuela" (NYT).
That was close. Sufficient garnering occurred.
"[Rand] Paul, the sole Republican to cosponsor the resolution, said that he too had spoken with Mr. Trump but was unmoved. He criticized party leaders for 'playing games' and accused the administration of misleading lawmakers. 'Oh, it’s a drug bust. Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'"
Posts
91 comments:
Venezuela is a thorn in our side. Let's remove it.
Every vote on anything with a whiff of controversy is ‘close’. Isn’t it safe to assume the outcome is collectively decided in the cloak room then they manufacture the vote based the data from each district and who has built up enough hit points to absorb the blow from shitting on supporters back home?
Certainly any vote to either increase or decrease spending is predetermined- yes on the first and no on the second. ‘We never have to pay it back’ was the way they explained it to Gaetz…
Smart move by Hawley and Young.
Flash back to the Democratic tag team of Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema who routinely stopped Biden when the DEI/psychopath crowd had to be stopped. Except for their rampant blind spending.
Flash back to how the Democrats "deemed passed" Obamacare back in the day.
Cowards all.
Rand Paul is a stupid man; just like his dad. VZ was using that oil to keep the Cuban regime alive. China needed the oil. With the USA in charge of the VZ oil, supply can be increased to drive global oil prices do WH which, inter alia, that means less money for Putin to run his war.
Nobody believed it was primarily about drugs. Nobody supports it because they think it’s primarily about drugs. Rand Paul is a man of integrity, but he’s also a nuisance who chooses his battles poorly.
I care less about the oil benefit to the US and a lot more about removing that benefit from Russia, Iran, and China. However, I am very happy with the additional, because it is both, cut in drugs being sent illegally into the US. More ecstatic that we are no longer importing gang members to rape and murder young girls on our streets.
I’m also happy for the people of Venezuela to be free from the slavery of communism.
Rand Paul is one of those people who can only hold one idea at a time. It’s about drugs, used to get money. It’s about Oil, used to get money. The money is/was used to fund cartels and the dictatorships that live off it. If Paul wants a one word answer, it’s about stopping the flow of money to dictators and terrorists that control governments adverse to the interests of regular citizens who just want decent lives, just like Iran.
'Oh, it’s a drug bust. Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'"
Rand Paul knows better than this. So what is going on with him? What did he want from Trump that he couldn't get?
It's about Congressional Pride, and maintaining a charade of oversight over the actions of the Executive branch. The Republicans don't want to face accusations of being Trump lapdogs if the whole action gets messy (which it will). But they also don't want to own any of the also-messy decisions that will arise in the future.
On a related note, I'm waiting to see some background on the Venezuelan fellow shot in the leg by ICE agent in North Minneapolis. Was he wanted on true criminal charges, or just a nice squeeky-clean refugee who wanted a peaceful life in the US? I suspect the tenor of the answer will drive how and whether it is reported in the Times.
…the algorithms told Rand Paul his optimal route through the live shot flow chart was ‘Not A Rubber Stamp for Trump’ whicj beatnout ‘Bringing Stability to Our Region’ and ‘Will Save Millions of Lives At Home’ by a slight but still statistically significant margin…
I think people like Paul who are trained as doctors have a different view of the world. There is a simplicity in most medicine, you see a patient, you test and find a specific thing wrong with them, and then you do treatment and they get better or not. Cause and effect is simpler, and if it doesn’t work, you forget them next week and have 50 more new people you treat the same way. The real world of policy has very few highly complex problems that are difficult to see in causality but each problem impacts a large number of people and requires years to solve. A very different mentality.
It’s all theatre if the War Powers Act is unconstitutional, which is the opinion of many conlaw experts. But it is illustrative of Congress’s penchant for time wasting while actual business is put off.
Regardless, if the last 85 years have shown anything it's that Congress's War Powers - whatever they once were - are effectively moot. Practical use of the US military, in many cases for multiple decades, resides exclusively in the purview of the executive now. It appears people are fine with this, and will be so until it precipates the disaster that the founders instituted the separation to prevent. If anyone's to blame, it's congress, as usual.
Did Althouse post this solely for the headline use of garner?
"Rand Paul knows better than this. So what is going on with him? What did he want from Trump that he couldn't get?"
He wants Fauci's head on a platter, but Trump evidently thinks that's a low-priority prosecution.
It's drugs and oil. Drugs are today's problem. There are thousands of second banana mini-Maduros, military men mostly, who operated the machinery. They need to be rounded up, investigated, and processed into convicts or cooperating witnesses before they can escape to China or take to the hills to create new drug cartels.
Oil is the long-term mission. We want it. We have it. But the production machinery is busted, mainly the refineries. The owners of that machinery, Conoco, ExxonMobil, and others can fix their stuff and get the products flowing. The profits will make the Venezuelans the richest folks in Latin America again, but it will take time.
The priorities may shift again. Thanks mini-Maduro Number 1, the Dancing Monkey of Sacramento, many of our refineries are either broken or going offline. We many need Venezuelan oil sooner rather than later.
RSM: yes yes yes and no. It isn't congress's fault. It is we the people's fault because in a representative Republic like ours, ordinary people actually have agency. The fact that we collectively have chosen not to actually elect non-corrupt criminal moron lying sacks of pus to Congress is on us. The man in the mirror.
If anyone ever thought that the Venezuelan adventure was about drugs and not oil, well then, you are just fooling yourself. That's not on the Trump administration. We know that they are going to use Madison avenue techniques to sell their policies. Pretending to believe the bullshit then acting holier than thou is a cop out.
If it was really about drugs, the targets would be Columbia and Mexico.
He wants Fauci's head on a platter
You think that's it? Well at least somebody in DC does. I hadn't heard that. I would support taking Fauci's head.
I gotta say, at this point, Trump reminds me of the guy I used to watch as a kid on the "Ed Sullivan Show". The guy who would get a plate spinning on a stick. Then he'd get multiple plates around the stage, all spinning on a stick at the same time.
I like Trump going to Washington and blowing up the way things have always been done. But I do worry about the law of unintended consequences taking hold at some point here. In Venezuela. In Iran. In Israel. In Ukraine. With Russia. In Greenland and with NATO. On the streets of our own cities. There are a LOT of plates balancing on sticks right now.
Trump and his amazing spinning plates.
Mike, I think Althouse posted it both because of her interest in garner and used the headline to attract the progressive bots to the feeding frenzy, so they might ignore the comment areas of other posts.
Begley correctly wrote: "Rand Paul is a stupid man; just like his dad. VZ was using that oil to keep the Cuban regime alive. China needed the oil. With the USA in charge of the VZ oil, supply can be increased to drive global oil prices do WH which, inter alia, that means less money for Putin to run his war."
What is Trump's primary job: It's to project American power and secure America's interests. This is what keeps Americans from speaking fucking Chinese, or Arabic or (pick one).
In doing that, he's governed by a central philosophy that people need to understand:
There will be no communism on this super-continent. China, nor any other country, will have a foothold on this super-continent. The American president runs everything on this super-continent.
America doesn't have friends. We have interests. Oil is the lubricant for everything that happens on the Earth and we will possess as much of it as we can beg, borrow, buy or steal ... but we will have it.
The spice must flow. It will flow, and it will flow into our hands.
End of debate.
Anybody who stands in the way of this will be destroyed because the country comes first. Always.
Rand Paul may think he knows better, but he isn't thinking globally and he doesn't even understand the game being played, or that one is even being played. He is an intellectual eunuch.
Distribution points were west through the darien gap to the border and across the ocean we're plugging those gaps
Someone should ask the White House if they intend to commandeer oil tankers from Iran headed for China.
For extra credit: How are they calculating and enforcing the just announced "25% tariff on countries doing business with Iran" ?
There are a LOT of plates balancing on sticks right now.
That's the job. All these challenges are connected. America's enemies within and without are working together to overwhelm our ability to deal with it all.
Howard said, "It isn't congress's fault."
Congress is the body legally empowered to exercise their authority in the name of the people. If the duty is shirked, it is doubly-damning in that they've failed not once but twice - to their constituents, and to themselves.
Didn't Biden pardon Fauci on his way out the White House door last January? Who wants his head badly enough to try and get the pardon revoked on the auto-pen theory? That sounds like as tedious and time wasting a bag of snakes as "Epstein, Epstein, Epstein," has been. I breathlessly await Kak's thoughtful, exhaustive analysis.
Yes he did, thats why they are chsllenging the autopen
FLC seems like a ends justify means Bot. Now I remember why I never read his posts.
Who wants his head badly enough to try and get the pardon revoked on the auto-pen theory? That sounds like as tedious and time wasting a bag of snakes as "Epstein, Epstein, Epstein," has been.
Sad, but true.
RSM, We are electing Congress to do what they're doing. This is what the people voted for. Just like Trump. We responsible for Trump too, all his actions all his mistakes.
Ergo ipso facto. We have to at least pretend we have agency otherwise what are we living for?
Barry Goldwater should come back and slap the snot out of Rand.
The possums are in dereliction of their duty,
Aa opposed to the uruk hai who follow through on the destruction of the country
This is why I hold Democrats more responsible for Trump than Republicans. The Democrats created the conditions to spawn a Trump. The average Trump voters are merely voting against those conditions, for the most part. That's at least respectable. I'm not sure Ezra Klein is there yet, LOL
How are they calculating and enforcing the just announced "25% tariff on countries doing business with Iran" ?
That's a legit question, but hiding within it (given the source, and the snark of "for extra credit") is the implication that Trump was just blurting out a random thought that he hadn't even considered before, much less spoken with his advisors and cabinet members about. The Trump-hate side always thinks that.
If I were an adherent to the projection hypothesis, I might think it's because that really is what Democrats expect from their top guys: they'll just bleeeaah out a bunch of stuff, and then it'll be up to the team to scramble to make it happen (or up to the press secretary to "explain" how "the President has been very clear" that that's not what he meant at all, I suppose).
Game theories for people without common sense
IOW: "You NEED Trump on that wall."
Ha, you got me. I can't stop reading now
Needs and wants are too different things
"...Oh, it’s a drug bust. Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'"
Dear Rand: embrace the power of 'and.'
Jessop was RIGHT to order the Code Red, and Rob Reiner was wrong to criticize him for it; and Reiner's own son proved what happens to weak people.
“Oh, it’s a drug bust. Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'"
Oh, it was Antifa dressed up like angry Trump supporters, oh, it was the FBI provoking the riot, oh, if that ain’t it then it was a peaceful tour guide, oh, they were bussed in, oh..
Oh, we are going to rid the streets of illegal rapists and murders. Oh, he’s not one of them. Oh, take him anyway. Oh, any Brown will do.
Oh, it’s just like the flu. Oh, it’ll disappear by Easter. Oh, it’s under control. Oh, we never said it wasn’t serious. Oh, nobody could have seen this coming.
Oh, it was a perfect call. Oh, there was no quid pro quo. Oh, aid was delayed for routine review. Oh, every president does this. Oh, even if it happened, it’s not impeachable.
Oh, we’re just enforcing the law. Oh, Obama built the cages. Oh, it’s for the children’s safety. Oh, we can’t reunite them. Oh, we don’t actually know where their parents are.
Oh, the system is rigged. Oh, if I lose it’s fraud. Oh, if I win it’s fair. Oh, mail-in ballots are illegal. Oh, except in Florida.
Oh, I don’t know her. Oh, I didn’t pay her. Oh, Michael Cohen did it on his own. Oh, it wasn’t illegal. Oh, even if it was, it’s old news.
Oh, it’s not a Muslim ban. Oh, it’s about terrorism. Oh, we just need extreme vetting. Oh, we’ll keep revising it until the courts allow it. Oh, see — not a ban.
Oh, infrastructure week is coming. Oh, we’re negotiating. Oh, Democrats won’t cooperate. Oh, now isn’t the right time. Oh, we’ll do it in the second term.
Oh, NATO is obsolete. Oh, they’re not paying their bills. Oh, I strengthened NATO. Oh, they only paid because of me. Oh, I never said I’d abandon them.
Oh, I didn’t incite anything. Oh, my speech was peaceful. Oh, people were emotional. Oh, they were patriots. Oh, actually I barely knew them.
Oh, “Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me”
Oh, “I have the right to do whatever I want as president “.
Oh, “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have,”
Oh, “This the final battle. With you at my side we will demolish the deep state. We will expel the warmongers from our government. We will drive out the globalists, we will cast out the communists, we will throw off the sick political class that hates our country.”
Oh, “totally obliterate the “deep state,” prosecuting Joe Biden and a long list of other people. Either they win or we win.”
Oh, “If I happen to be president and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say, ‘Go down and indict them.’ They’d be out of business; they’d be out of the election.”
Oh, “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution”.
Oh, “I often say Al Capone, he was one of the greatest of all time — if you like criminals. And he got indicted once. I got indicted four times.”_
“Managers are not confronted with problems that are independent of each other, but with dynamic situations that consist of complex systems of changing problems that interact with each other. I call such situations messes. Problems are abstractions extracted from messes by analysis…. Managers do not solve problems; they manage messes.” — Russell Ackoff
I'm not sure Ezra Klein is there yet, LOL
I think he's definitely still #resisting, but in spite of himself, he sometimes has to say things that challenge the participation-trophy left.
As a pretty typical mom who never wanted to see her kids suffer the consequences of their actions (especially when they were just mistakes, darn it! They were never trying to screw something up!), let me say that I am grateful that we are back to acknowledging the importance of dads - in family life and in international relations. (That includes dads like Dame Thatcher.) My conservatism notwithstanding, no one should ever want someone like me in charge (and no one does) - it's too easy for that conservatism to develop thin spots when I am confronted with the fact that pain is sometimes necessary and inevitable.
I think the 'Venezuelan oil' story is the MacGuffin. So when I hear it being placed front & center I suspect subterfuge. It will take years to work capacity up to a meaningful amount, and even then, it will be very low-quality crude, not highly-valued as a commodity. But as a commodity, highly fungible.
There was much ballyhoo about the '50 million barrels' that was going to come to the US and be sold for the benefit of the Venezuelan people. What does that represent? Less than 2 days' consumption for the US. Meaningful for Venezuelans, perhaps, but insignificant to world markets.
The real story about Venezuela is the proximity to US shores as a stable base for foreign adventures by our enemies, and as a center for mischief-making, destabilizing our political climate, fomenting unrest, spurring on illegal immigration, and election-meddling.
Kyle Cheney on X: "JUST IN: Big win for the Trump administration in the 3rd Circuit, ruling that a federal judge in New Jersey never had jurisdiction to consider Mahmoud Khalil's challenge to his detention. Unclear what immediate effect it will have given tangle of other issues/rulings." / X https://share.google/1Egen8xubglqe6109
Close call. Trump's poll numbers are poor. Soon to be one of most-hated American presidents. Yet he is delivering on most of his promises.
“One of the most hated American Presidents”
What American Presidents are hated? What thought process brings you to use the word hate? There are Presidents who did worse or better, are liked or disliked but hate? And you say “most hated” as if there are several Presidents who are hated. Lower the intensity of your emotions. This isn’t good for you.
Howard said...
FLC seems like a ends justify means Bot. Now I remember why I never read his posts.
There are only 2 alternatives to ends justify the means based policy:
1. Policies likely to fail.
2. Emotional masturbation.
How different is "garner" from "gather" in this context?
Howard said...
If anyone ever thought that the Venezuelan adventure was about drugs and not oil, well then, you are just fooling yourself. That's not on the Trump administration. We know that they are going to use Madison avenue techniques to sell their policies. Pretending to believe the bullshit then acting holier than thou is a cop out.
It is about rare earths too, not just oil.
Germany is deploying troops to Greenland for the rare earths, not Denmark's benefit.
Bob Boyd said...
'Oh, it’s a drug bust. Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'"
Rand Paul knows better than this. So what is going on with him? What did he want from Trump that he couldn't get?
Respect.
RJW: Your comments need more spacing. Because those spaces are beautiful. The comments, not so much.
Rand Paul said...
Oh, we’re going for drugs. Oh, it’s not really drugs, now it’s oil,' he said. 'So see, the bait and switch has already happened.'
Josephbleau said...
Rand Paul is one of those people who can only hold one idea at a time. It’s about drugs, used to get money. It’s about Oil, used to get money. The money is/was used to fund cartels and the dictatorships that live off it. If Paul wants a one word answer, it’s about stopping the flow of money to dictators and terrorists...
Even Warren Zevon on his most drunken day was able to grasp the realpolitik of the situation along with the power of "and."
Oil, drugs and money.
Rand is a purist - and I appreciate that. But we all know that a leak would have occurred on the Adam Schitt-d left - and the entire operation would have sunk before it even started.
DEMOCRATS ARE CORRUPT AND THEY CANNOT BE TRUSTED.
Wince said...
Oil, drugs and money.
This is great power conflict.
I put that above all of those things.
This is between China and the US. This conflict determines what is money and what is power.
A point-by-point refutation of RJW's thing up there is kind of what I want to do, but Lord, it would take all morning. Who has the energy to fisk* any more?
* In honor of the recent blogaversary**, since fisking was all the rage in this blog's early days - not that our host engaged in it overmuch.
** This spelling looks wrong, but so do blogiversary and bloggiversary and bloggaversary. I give up.
Wince said...
Ronald J. Ward is showing us his "Oh, face" is cringe.
"You know what I'm talking about."
Best post I have seen in a while.
Those words you are using vizzini
Ronald J. Ward showing Althouse his "Oh, face" is cringe.
"You know what I'm talking about."
Achilles is a mind reader. That’s impressive
Given the current situation, Venezuela would descend into chaos if Trump were prevented from using further force.
"Hey, look me, I'm over here, I've just had my hair done, LOOK AT ME"!!!!!
Rand Paul
“ Oh, we are going to rid the streets of illegal rapists and murders. Oh, he’s not one of them. Oh, take him anyway. Oh, any Brown will do.”
No not just any “Brown.” Certain Browns. Starting with fraudster Chuck. Remember— there is still time to SELF deport. Think about it.
Drugs or oil doesn't matter. Rand Paul believes in the U.S. Constitution and works to get Congress to live up to its responsibilities. I support him. Everyone loves a powerful president that they support, but eventually the shoe will be on the other foot.
Wince said...
Ronald J. Ward showing Althouse his "Oh, face" is cringe.
1/15/26, 9:01 AM
Pure poetry. That stupid jackass should be laughed right outta here.
Eva Marie: Not counteracting your advice to RJW, but just taking your rhetorical question literally as an exercise:
I would guess the top 4 most hated Presidents were Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, and Nixon. Not sure about the order.
Second tier would be W, Obama, Clinton, and Trump.
But then I thought, how do you quantify hatred? Number of haters? Then how do you win an election while being so hated? So is it intensity of hatred? How do you measure that?
I guess it will be one of those GOAT-type debates that never gets settled. MHOAT? CC, JSM
"Remember this guy the next time you are arguing with someone on the internet"
https://x.com/i/status/2009387429489225770
Well, Boyd. You busted me. But Jesus does actually hate horses.
But Jesus does actually hate horses.
He's a donkey man.
If you just leave out the false quotes pretending Trump said it wasn't this, or it wasn't that, then you have an entirely different argument to make. You have to argue why it's not all those things or most of them. The more valid reasons you have the better, and valid does not require being the only, or even the best.
Jesus is actually an elephant man, dumbass.
(There, that should get Boyd’s goat)
You know who loved elephants? The Virgin Mary.
Normally quite dignified and reserved, she'd turn into this total, hands-to-the-face, shrieking, swooning fan girl when the circus came to town. It was nuts. Jesus was like, "Wow, Mom."
if the possums were serious, we could have a discussion, but we see they are not, they are just willing to abide by the status quo (there are risks to any strategy)
There's hate as anger at failure: Hoover, LBJ, Carter, W, Biden.
Then there's hate created by policy and partisan differences: Lincoln, FDR, Nixon, Reagan.
There's also the kind of surplus hate that's magnified by the internet and social media: Clinton, Obama, Trump. It often has more to do with personality than with policy or performance.
There's much overlap. There was a big personal or snobbish style component to the hatred of LBJ and Nixon and Reagan and W. W was also hated for partisan reasons before the whole country turned against him. Trump is hated because of policy differences but the hate is also personal and has been put into overdrive by today's media tech environment.
The hatred of Adams and Jefferson has a lot in common with today's internet-magnified hatreds. There were philosophical and policy differences, but pamphleteers amplified it with much personal abuse.
“The Trump administration confirmed it completed the first $500 million sale of Venezuelan oil and expects additional sales in the coming days and weeks. Trump previously said he plans to mobilize major U.S. oil companies to invest billions to fix Venezuela's broken oil infrastructure.” ~ Fox Business
Why did Trump put the money into a Qatari bank account instead of the US Treasury?
Whether it’s Hillary Clinton losing $20,000 on a land deal in Arkansas or Donald Trump taking millions of dollars in oil revenue from Venezuela and stashing it in a secret bank account in Qatar, both candidates are guilty of some shady financial dealings.
Unless I'm mistaken, the resolution would also have needed a majority vote in the House and if passed there it would be subject to a Presidential veto and would need a two thirds majority to overcome that.
Showtime in the Senate.
"Why did Trump put the money into a Qatari bank account instead of the US Treasury?"
Because it's not our money and will be disbursed to Venezuelans though the Qatari intermediaries.
""Why did Trump put the money into a Qatari bank account instead of the US Treasury?"
To keep Hawaiian judges from ordering the money to go somewhere else. Also to hold off suits from the multitude of people who had money, property, or loved ones taken from them by Chavez and Maduro. CC, JSM
---- Lower the intensity of your emotions. This isn’t good for you.
Thank you, Dr. Eva. Lower your impulse to give advice. It's annoying.
Hated presidents -- like Nixon? Joe Biden? Barack Obama? Woodrow Wilson? FDR? Carter? Buchanan? Harding? Lincoln for his entire presidency? Whatever you want to call it.
Not seeing why VP Vance had to vote (but no harm in doing so) since a tie vote by itself defeats the resolution. Was there something special about this resolution that displaced that rule?
Trump is sending funds from Venezuela oil to a bank in Qatar: report
"Not seeing why VP Vance had to vote (but no harm in doing so) since a tie vote by itself defeats the resolution."
This vote was to dismiss a previously passed resolution.
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