From "Top general faces brewing storm after Trump’s Pentagon pick/The incoming administration’s focus on culture issues and countering diversity goals intensifies the transition challenge for Joint Chiefs chair" (WaPo)(free-access link).
WaPo portrays Brown as "apolitical" and "reserved," but how does that connect to the "'woke" agenda"? You can't tell from that article. Let's look at the corresponding article in the NYT, "What to Know About Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Pick for Defense Secretary." Here's the part about Brown:
During a recent podcast interview, Mr. Hegseth said that General Brown... should be fired for being too “woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion. Mr. Hegseth also asked in his book whether General Brown, an African American Air Force fighter pilot with 130 combat flying hours and 40 years of service, would have gotten the job as Joint Chiefs chairman if he were not Black. “We’ll never know, but always doubt — which on its face seems unfair to C.Q.,” he wrote, using General Brown’s nickname. “But since he has made the race card one of his biggest calling cards, it really doesn’t much matter.”
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86 comments:
The purpose of the military is to win fucking wars. Anyone who is even notionally not 100% on board with policies, procedures and plans that focus on that purpose can, in the words of Ari Gold, "Get the fuck out!"
One doesn't become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs if one isn't political. It's a political job.
"130 Combat Flying hours"?
Good grief.
That is not something to be proud of.
" intended to act as a national ballast . . ." made-up standard.
Do you mean as a warrior it should be more . . . or as a pacifist it should be zero?
It's LAUGHABLE to me that the press believes there's going to be any confrontation between an underling soldier and his Commander.
That is not how the military works and the Generals had better come to grips with that concept.
Can the Sec Def or the President fire Brown? How does that work?
No kidding. What a bullshit comment. The military is for killing other people as violently as possible when our politics or security requires it. That's it. That is their entire and only purpose.
And that goddamn General Milley should be in the fucking stockade.
Nobody was fired after the Afghanistan debacle. Who's the fucker who thought it was a bright idea to give the Taliban $7 billion worth of American equipment? That was a clusterfuck of incompetence, from the commander in chief who gave the order, to the generals who came up with plans for the worst retreat in American history.
The Commander in Chief of all Armed Forces of the United States can fire any member of the military or bust their ass down to private and eliminate their pension.
The Democrats pretty openly fantasize about the armed forces perpetrating a real coup against Trump.
Mark Milley should be in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba with all the other terrorist co-conspirators. He's been subverting the President of the United States for years.
Pilots of my company in Viet Nam were met at mission completion by the Flight Surgeon to insure their ability to continue the mission because they had exceeded the 120-hour flight limit in one month.
130 hours?... that's a month and one day.
Everyone knows what the WAPO means when they describe someone as "non-political."
Legal issues are discussed here.
Chairman of Joint Chiefs serves a single four-year term (two two-year terms until 2017) at the pleasure of the President. Can only be retained during a national emergency. Brown's term is up in 2027.
Liberals used to favor civilian control over the military - back when the civilians agreed with them.
'" intended to act as a national ballast . . ." made-up standard.'
What WaPo means is that, when Trump goes too far, as he inevitably will, the role of the military is to remove him from power. That's why the Obama and Biden administrations have been salting the military with freaks and perverts, their natural supporters.
This*** alert!
Trump needs to de-Obama the military. Obama forced retirement on any flag officer that he thought was "too patriotic" or straight white and Christian. We are in the shitty state we're in because he culled good men from the ranks exactly so he could implement DEI and elevate ciphers like Austin, and Milley and Brown. Obama needed yes-men not warriors. Trump has the opportunity now to reverse that. There are enough young retired patriot Officers to tap if the ranks are too thin to elevate warriors to one- through four-star status. No doubt Hegseth will set the tone and demand excellent results.
Why look at that. I go to X and find Jack Posobiec writing, "BREAKING: Trump to create ‘Warrior Board’ of retired generals and officers to remove ‘woke’ military leaders."
Yes! So much winning.
Never trust ANYONE over O-6
Milley bragged about his insubordination regarding Trump, bragged about calling the CCP general to "advise" him. So they do more than fantasize, Chris B. "The generals" participated in a soft coup.
DEI and wokeness are dangerous because they bring into question the abilities of minorities, qualified or not. Did Brown earn his position? We'll never know, because he was selected (like Harris) with certain criteria in mind.
Many leftists often describe themselves or their side or positions as non-political. How often do we hear that something "isn't political, it's about people?" It's a favorite trope. It was just reported that the military is already plotting how to undermine Trump when he takes office. The current military cares more about drag shows and DEI than killing bad guys, so something needs to change.
"Never trust ANYONE over O-6"
I never trusted any of them over O-5.
The Perfumed Political Princes of The Pentagon is a longstanding meme--going back at least as far as General Westmoreland and Viet Nam--and probably before that. Once you get past O-5 it's all political. If you want to effect change in the military it's going to require busting some political eggs. I have no opinion on General Brown---but 130 hours of flying combat in a 40 year career doesn't sound like much. But he was a "fighter pilot" high above the fray. Now I suspect there are some A-10 close air support pilots who'd have 130 hours or more in a single year in Afghanistan.
Brown was the one that had the tantrum over George Floyd, way outside his wheelhouse or maybe not,
Winning an election should mean you don’t need NYT permission every time you want to do something…
Thank you. I wondered how high before the politics starts…
That is all flight hours. Combat flight hours is how many hours in combat. The record in the current airforce is 1150 combat hours in 358 combat missions. And that is an A-10 pilot, where the dwell time is much longer than an F-16 (which is what Brown flew). I would hazard a guess that 130 combat hours is probably well over 50 combat missions (he has 3000 hours overall).
In WWII the average fighter pilot flew 250-500 missions. Bomber crews who completed (survived) completed 25 missions were allowed to stop flying combat missions
Why are belittling his combat experience?
Maybe there are different types of combat missions, Freder. Also, combat makes people change. How could taking life not do that? Where I live, there are many more combat veterans than in other places.
The vast majority of them, from six decades of war, don’t want some facetious thanks for their service. They endured too much abuse, there and here.
Think about that.
As has been said the military's job is to break things and kill people. They are the foreign policy arm of the US government and are to used when the government decides that kinetic action is required. The folks in charge are supposed to make sure that the military is able to do this job whenever called upon. Unfortunately, they get caught up in the woke crap and other non-job related BS because congress likes to use them as a testing ground before certain policies get mainstreamed. It is usually worse in peace time.
Now, since all of these senior positions are served at the convenience of the President with the consent of the Senate, the President can fire any of them if he wishes. It has always been this way. They can be encouraged to retire and go away and write their memoir.
It's not too late.
Army Major of Green Beret Special Forces 100 times better than an Affirmatve Action pilot.
You made some unfounded assumptions about my beliefs about women in the military yesterday, and then I was blocked from replying.
Women are good at a lot of military jobs. Intelligence, desk work at home, limited communications in battle fronts if they are still fertile, due to toxic metals. Interrogation (what a surprise). Planning, staffing. They actually score high as fighter pilots.
Combat troops? No, for several reasons.
General Omar Bradley once observed that amateurs want to talk about strategy while professionals want to talk about logistics. Most appointments to head the massive DOD have tapped persons with demonstrated managerial ability who could run the logistics side of the operation, although some appointees likely weighed toward military experience. This nomination manages to fail on both counts.
Trump is already a lame duck, ineligible to run for re-election. With Hegseth and Gaetz for AG, Trump will face early rejection from the Senate and his second term will be off to a stormy start, to no one's surprise.
We proponents of democracy must recognize and occasionally celebrate its limits in the American experiment. Here, persons elected— two per state, regardless of population—to a limitless number of 6-yr terms will save us from a man elected nationally, true, by the antidemocratic Electoral College, but, right now, by a majority of voters. And right now I'm thankful that Alaska and Maine each gets 2 senators.
I was recruited by West Point for their second class of women. I said no. I didn’t want to get something because I was a woman. But I would have made a hell of a supply commander.
We haven’t won a war since 1945. Way past time to clean house at the Pentagon.
OK. I get your point. But it has to be contextualized by war. Lindbergh was probably a spy for FDR to evaluate German Air Power, then humiliated by being refused a combat role. He served independently nonetheless. His wife, who hated flying, spent decades mapping out new flight routes that helped us win the war.
Life is complicated.
Good move.
he spoke in raw, emotional terms about his experience as a Black man in the U.S. military...."
That's the genre called "blackity-black." Black people write everything in that genre. They don't write about being human, like whites do.
A few exceptions, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, sometimes Clarence Thomas.
No clue what you're referring to, or when. Whatever it was, I don't remember writing it, and whatever your response, I did not see it. But for the record, women are good at some jobs in the military. Some. They are atrocious leaders, speaking from experience. It is my personal belief that a military career is sub-optimal for any woman, for a myriad of reasons, and that female ambition is better served by career aspirations elsewhere. But you will never hear me oppose their service or that some of them can't do an excellent job when held to the same standard as men, a "common standard" being an absolute.
I think Trump made a huge mistake in not firing Comey on January 21, 2017. He should sack Wray immediately, along with every US Attorney, without exception. Maybe “C.Q.” should go in the first week or so — but Trump would have to know who to replace him with.
Lot of reasons to question Brown's appointment and performance as Chairman.
But belittling him because he "only" had 130 hours of combat flight - I'll be brief - Fuck you.
“woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion.
These people do far more than simply "support" diversity and inclusion - they use it as a weapon to drive white men and straight people in general out and import a culture having nothing to do with fighting a war (or teaching a class, running a transportation department, oversee the handling of nuclear waste, etc.).
The Commander in Chief of all Armed Forces of the United States can fire any member of the military or bust their ass down to private and eliminate their pension.
No he can't. He can't bust their ass down to private and eliminate their pension, only a court martial court can do that, and that requires a serious crime under the UCMJ.
It was Trump who selected General Brown as USAF Chief of Staff
For chairman of the JSC, Brown doesn't have a great record. ROTC from Texas Tech (Not Air Force Academy). MA from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. 130 combat hours in F-16. Command tours at U.S. Air Forces Central Command and Pacific Air Forces.
The man has DEI affirmative action baby all over him. Promoted to General in 2009. 2nd star in 2013. 3rd star in 2014. In 2018 he got his 4th star. In 2020, he was AF chief of staff. In 2023, Chairman of JCS.
I think that WaPo is making more of this than it really is. If Hegseth makes it, I expect that there will be some give and take, but it will not be the meltdown they are predicting. Of course the WaPo and NYT will blow everything up to make it look like Armageddon, though.
Brown is unusual since he doesn't have a DFC - distinguished flying cross. Almost all the AF Chiefs of staff since 1970 have one.
in twenty years of war, he only managed that short a span, does that seem likely
“woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion.
FLAG
You can't define a word by using a term that is just as undefined as the one you are defining. You give away the whole game in that passage. Again, we're witnessing the worst violators of doublespeak being writers, who traditionally were checks against it.
“We’ll never know, but always doubt — which on its face seems unfair to C.Q.,” he wrote, using General Brown’s nickname. “But since he has made the race card one of his biggest calling cards, it really doesn’t much matter.”
Bingo
Fire him
I would rather have an officer from most any ROTC program than one of the academies. Most of the ring knockers I served with were snobbish jerks.
Then why did Trump select him USAF Chief of Staff?
My smart, tough, beautiful female cousin was an emergency medical physician and an Aerospace Medicine Doctor at Langley Afb. She was career military and retired 3 years ago at the age of 55. She was deployed to Faluja and other combat zones and she was considered one of the best under duress.
She was definitely not an affirmative action recruit. Given his age, I would assume Brown is also not an affirmative action recruit. His recent promotions are a different question.
Even my cousin would agree that combat on the ground is about more than intelligence and weapons skill, it also includes brute strength. Therefore, men are more suited to combat on the ground. However, women in combat as fighter pilots is another situation.
As for women in the military as a career --- I think both men and women in the military self-select and so by design are suited to it as a career. That means the majority of men and women in the United States are not suited for a career in the military. I don’t think it is necessarily gender specific.
"“woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion."
No.
“woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion, above all other criteria including competence and excellence.
Freder at 1101:
"Bomber crews who completed (survived) completed 25 missions were allowed to stop flying combat missions."
True initially.
My father was at 17 completed missions in a B-17 when the horrible losses to bomber crews forced command to increase the mission requirement to 35. As a navigator, he was quick to figure the odds against his (or any other crew member's) surviving 35 missions.
He beat the odds. So many other did not.
"Given his age, I would assume Brown is also not an affirmative action recruit. His recent promotions are a different question."
I don't know why you would make that assumption.
I was active duty during the decade of the 1980s. I remember being told that my career could survive less than maximum scores on any element of my OER (Officer Evaluation Report) except for the line "Supports Affirmative Action."
The rot runs long, and deep.
Trump has an agreement with Johnson and Thune to allow recess appointments. I don't know if the Dems can so anything about that.
That would allow Gaetz and maybe Hegseth to run wild for a year before giving up their positions. If they are wild enough, it could be a good start.
LLR-democratical Rich: "General Omar Bradley once observed that amateurs want to talk about strategy while professionals want to talk about logistics. Most appointments to head the massive DOD have tapped persons with demonstrated managerial ability who could run the logistics side of the operation, although some appointees likely weighed toward military experience. This nomination manages to fail on both counts."
LOL
The architects of zero victories and the Afghanistan surrender/departure debacle are manifestly deserving of being cashiered.
Had LLR-democratical Rich actually served instead of just cutting and pasting the thoughts of others he might have already known that.
Tina: "They actually score high as fighter pilots"
Some score high as fighter pilots. A majority do not. But those that do suffer from the overall impression, which is unfortunate. What is even more unfortunate is once DEI is introduced, without personal experience with another DEI-potential warrior in action, you don't know and cant know what to think.
LOL
The New Soviet Democraticals have been doing that non-stop to Hegseth and they did it to JD Vance while calling Stolen Valor Walz a hero.
This is the sort of out-of-the-box thinking we desperately need to “right the ship”!
Almost 2 years to run wild actually.
"... “woke,” a term for those who support diversity and inclusion."
That's not what "woke means. You don't have to be woke to support diversity and inclusion. The woke promote diversity and inclusion OVER qualifications and abilities.
Also, who ever said that the military leaders weren't political? Just look at what happened between Truman and MacArthur.
He also apparently doesn't have an Air Medal award. Its almost as if all his "combat" fligtht time was in non-hot Southern Watch/Northern Watch overflight duty, which was technically in combat zones but not actually any hot firing.
If he had been in hot engagements, there is every reason to believe he would have awards with combat "v's", but he doesn't. Very much an "active command-Administrative leadership" career path.
He would not be the first to travel that route to senior leadership of course.
“Who's the fucker who thought it was a bright idea to give the Taliban $7 billion worth of American equipment?”
I suspect that Trump’s goal in negotiating and Biden’s goal in implementing the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan was to put the Taliban next to Iran at the behest of the Saudis. Leaving military equipment behind would further that goal, bipartisan albeit secret.
He does?
When the navy began having Black officers, they pulled Black senior chief bosuns (the highest rank Blacks could hold) and sent them to OCS, insuring the success of the first Black Navy officers to exist. The Navy didn't say "10% of all officers will be Black" and let skin color determine promotion, they went and found highly qualified Black officer candidates, who would excel with their new ranks.
Perhaps one complaint of the military's present diversity efforts is that skin color is, or at least seems, more important than the merit of those being selected for promotion. And that behavior is exactly what used to be called racism, and still is, by all rational people.
Remember his first priority after his promotion was
to address the race issue.
"For Air Force Leader, Making Video On Racism He's Faced Was 'The Right Thing To Do"
He then had his PR flacks issue statements touting 160 hours "combat".
I worked for an Air Officer who trusted this lowly NCO to call air strikes, in the 5th and 3rd Marines.
Lt General John I Hudson, did the Cuban missile overflights armed with a camera; took over as Executive Officer of an Infantry Battalion when needed; flew more than 300 combat mission in Viet Nam, had more than 5000 flight hours when he retired.
In my opinion OC Brown couldn't carry the General's sea bag.
http://www.veterantributes.org/TributeDetail.php?recordID=1508
The comments here are a target rich environment. (My wife and I entered the AF via ROTC in 1981. We got out as Captains (O-3) in 1990). I went back to the DoD as a civilian employee in the early 2000's. LOTS of changes, none of them for the better. But I'll limit my response to comments to this:
"Never trust ANYONE over O-6"
I never trusted any of them over O-5.
We had an Army O-5 doing a pre-inspection walk thru prior to a General Officer's visit. At one point, he physically reached over a desk and grabbed an AF Senior Master Sergeant's lapels because she wasn't standing up fast enough. She was pissed, and after the O-5 left I said this to her:
"Do you know what is worse than an O-5 trying to make O-6?" She shook her head no. I answered: "Nothing."
As it turns out, she made Chief and he got his fast track O-6 assignment cut short when someone reported him to the IG for accepting Pro football tickets and some expensive train sets as gifts from a contractor. I think they let him retire, but his career was over, and he was never able to get a Federal position after he got out.
"No he can't. He can't bust their ass down to private …"
But can he fire them?
"...elected nationally, true, by the antidemocratic Electoral College..."
Its not "antidemocratic" at all. Its a check on power and populist fads. Characterizing well thought out checks on mob rule as "antidemocratic" is ignorant.
But thanks for outing yourself as fundamentally an anti-American and anti-Constitutional person.
There is no shortage of jobs that women could perform within the military. To argue that they would excel at some misses the point entirely. The modern American military is visibly worse for DEI influence that benefits women, and I don't expect it to survive a serious confrontation with Russia or China. Which thanks to Biden may not be far off. If you disagree, go re-up and get the glory: you couldn't pay me enough to join the Great American Empire now.
Never trust any "David" numbered more than 3
"RCOCEAN II said...
The man has DEI affirmative action baby all over him."
As AF COS he was all George Floyd and CRT. Under his leadership the AF started turning away well qualified white pilot applications and forming special POC training courses to attempt to get a more 'diverse' officer corps.
"The potential for a high-profile confrontation between the Pentagon’s two most senior leaders — one a telegenic political appointee, the other a circumspect career soldier..."
"... further challenges the military’s fraying status as a trusted, apolitical American institution. Polls show that public confidence in the military, intended to act as a national ballast amid shifting political currents, has fallen to its lowest level in decades..”
Bullshit, Truman fired MacArthur. If you are president it is your duty to adjust staff to accomplish your goals. “Polls show” more bullshit.
I knew a guy, now deceased, who ended up with 4 stars. I've never been a big fan of military leaders (except "Patton" of course), but this guy was VERY smart, and VERY committed, and I hope that our military services have more like that. I think he retired before a lot of the affirmative action crap, but I would have trusted his judgement, pro or con, with respect to any subordinate. He was NOT "political" in the sense we're talking about here, but he was always aware that the armed forces work for a civilian government. And in his senior years he was aware that his promotions could be delayed/denied if he p*ssed off the wrong pols. So he was careful.
But I cannot imagine his telling a strategic enemy of the US that he wouldn't obey the President's order to nuke them.
"Do you know what is worse than an O-5 trying to make O-6?" She shook her head no. I answered: "Nothing."
Good to hear that it wasn't just us NCOs who felt that way.
I have similar stories...
The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is “reserved” and “introverted”? They wrote that thinking people would believe it?
"We proponents of democracy..."
I laughed out loud at that one. Thanks, Rich.
Back in the 80's I vividly remember my Admiral (O-7) advising me, when he gave me a particularly unpleasant assignment, "Lieutenant Commander, the s*** flows downhill."
I refrained from replying that the scum rises to the top, and off I went to the Indian Ocean.
I'd say in general, don't trust anyone over O-4. Then again, I also knew some damn fine O-5, 6, 7s, and one 4 star who was awarded a Navy Cross back when the military wasn't focused on being a social justice experimental program.
Left Bank of the Charles
"... and Biden’s goal in implementing the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan was to put the Taliban next to Iran at the behest of the Saudis. Leaving military equipment behind would further that goal, bipartisan albeit secret."
Operation Fast and Furious II. This time it'll work!
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