He promised to end the Ukraine war and then colluded with Speaker Johnson and President Biden to fund it. He let Big Pharma and his corrupt bureaucrats run roughshod over him as President. He promised to cut the deficit and ran up the biggest debt in history. He promised to run the government like a business and then closed down our businesses. He promised to drain the swamp and then filled his administration with swamp creatures. He promised to protect our rights and then torpedoed the Constitution. Instead of lobbing poisonous bombs from the safety of his bunker, let’s hear President Trump defend his record to me mano-a-mano by respectful, congenial debate.
Perfect! Trump is always leaning on Biden to debate and stressing that he's ready to go any time any place, and Trump chose to pay attention to RFK and attack him. Let him debate. What a show it would be! And it would inherently make the argument that Biden is weak, because why isn't he getting into the debate? The American people love debates! It's how JFK beat Nixon.
Even if Trump won't debate, let him point by point answer RFK's arguments.
ADDED: RFK goes after Trump on substantive issues. That's what I've said many times I wish Biden had been doing. RFK has a little bit about Trump's character — he calls him a "frightened" man — but the rest is substance. Biden and the Democrats have gone on and on about Trump, the bad bad man — gone on in words and gone on in bringing criminal prosecutions. Tragically, they've done it to the point where they look as bad or worse in their own way and now we who want a man of character have no one to choose... unless it's Bobby.
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It's such a relief to read and hear RFK's remarks. He sounds so refreshingly normal, emphasis on the word "sounds."
Trump wrongly trusted many people who undermined his authority and the opposition worked the Russis,Rusia,Russia theme to keep him largely tied-up and on the defensive thanks to Hillary and her minions.
Smart move by RFK Jr. He needs to raise his profile and make himself relevant in the campaign. I doubt that either Trump or Biden would be foolish enough to debate him as there would be little for them win and lots to lose, but he might goad Trump into getting into a high profile spat.
Actually, it might be smart for Trump to do this. There is a sizeable never Trump portion of the electorate who don't want to vote for Biden but would do so if there were no choice. By making RFK Jr. a high profile anti Trump candidate, he could siphon some votes from Biden.
Trump is frightened? I’m unimpressed. If you haven’t figured out Trump by now go stand over there with all of his other detractors who are furious they can’t find the words that make him go away.
…though good observation that Trump has a record and you don’t.
Covid changed the game board after the promises, for most of it. Betrayal by the deep state was a lot of it.
I’d like to see the defense of the wild and inaccurate claims quip. I was in NY during all the riverkeeper stuff and Trump sounded accurate to me…
What happens when unfrightened men with a sense of humor take to social media? RFK doesn't say.
RFK Jr. is not incorrect in the things he lists. But Trump followers don't care. This is why politics is so bizarre. People feel a loyalty to their 'brand' of politician, or worse- to a political party- rather to their own foundational beliefs and requests.
This is how you get people so loyal to Trump. This is how you get cities full of Black people voting for Democrats, even after living with the worst schools, in the highest crime areas, with the least services, in a society that has been allowed to gut the Black family in America. Democrats own the cities, run the cities, and have for decades. In some cases, over 100 years. And yet, people who vote for the party that has decimated their lives, will again, in the next election, vote for that same party.
In Trump's defense, he did do a number of very good things. Some amazing things that, had he still been in office, would have make the world less chaotic, more peaceful. I do believe we would not have had an October 7, the destruction of Gaza, and the ridiculous leftist Hamas Praise Rallies around the Western world.
And I want to believe that, if Trump is allowed to get elected in November, he will not make some of the same 'personnel' mistakes he did the first time around. Fool me once...
And it would inherently make the argument that Biden is weak, because why isn't he getting into the debate?
We know why…but Biden has Cook the Vote 2.0 going for him, which is nice. Likely the only thing that matters…
RFK Jr is good.
responded coherently.
Compare that to anything uttered by Biden.
Having RFK Jr.'s candidacy elevated in rhw public consciousness benefits RFK Jr. and Donald Trump. So I suspect a conspiracy here.
RFK jr. is the most hinged of the candidates.
Trump is a boob.
Biden is a Soviet puppet - paid for by Soros and other corrupt billionaires.
All that is policy. Trump failed us, but the failure was one of not progresing forward, instead of openly mocking and undermining our desired policies.
RFK Jr. opposes both conservative and centrist policy goals viz the border, the economy, drugs, and education. People who don't even find out the policy positions of this half-wit's far leftist's crap are ignorant, or star f******, or both. Who the hell cares that he's "coherent" or "personable" or "contrary" when, back here in the real world, the positions he supports are literally to the left of Biden's and will destroy our economy and country even faster?
It's the issues. Then it's the implementation. Biden fails out of the gate. RFK Jr. fails even worse out of the gate. Trump fails at much of the implementation. Know what you're talking about, unless you just want to gossip blindly like an adolescent girl about how cool and edgy Kennedy seems* to be.
*You'll be disappointed. Again. How many times do you need?
correction: "All that matters is policy."
Two problems with this strategy.
Primarily, Trump's brand is 'mean tweets'. There's nothing unusual about a wild social media rant from Trump which makes the claim that he's "descending into vitriol" because he's "frightened" a bit hard to square with known history.
Secondly, a debate is not an interview. Claiming to be the only sane man in the room only works until you cut lose with some of your own loonie ideas, and we've got at least one regular example of that in this comment section.
This is by far the most effective and devastating takedown of Trump that can be mounted. It is also impossible for the Democrats to take this line. Imagine a world where this is a setup for Trump to accept this criticism, acknowledge his shortcomings, and unite with Kennedy to overturn the current consensus, while applying the rubric of many of Kennedy's criticisms. Yeah, I know, we'll pause a second while we all laugh and wipe the tears from our faces.
The media would likely unite and declare them both in league with Putin, doncha think? How might that play out? It's easily as likely as some of the things we have seen to date. I think it's more likely than what we saw roll out on 01-06-21, for example.
Life is filled with possibilities, particularly the ones you don't see coming.
Of the three candidates, RFK Jr clearly has the best head of hair. A healthy head of hair is one of the best indicators that a person has a good head on his shoulders and is not afflicted with dementia or narcissism. The electorate pays too much attention to a candidate's height and weight and not enough to the quality of their hair. The Kennedy's have their share of human foibles, but all fair minded people must observe that they've got great hair.
Trump says what he thinks.
RFK says what people want to hear.
Can this year be the year when the Kennedy's go away?
Trump is a genius. His only fault is that he is constantly being duped by people he trusts. Don unwittingly appoints them to positions of tremendous importance and then they go on to derail his beautiful agenda, bigly. Ultimately all of his failures are Hillary's fault.
That said it's hard not to like Robert Kennedy Jr even though he has some outlandish and very unscientific opinions. He is absolutely spot on that the ultra processed food and pharma monopolies are the greatest threat to our country.
I think Trump is far and away a better choice than Biden, but I think RFK scores some telling points. Trump complains about how some of his choices turned out to be Deep State, but he's the one who picked them.....Contrast his choices with that of that woman at NPR. She never chose any closet Republicans or even moderate Democrats. The guy who complained about her was a fossil who was hired twenty five years ago. They're all on the same page at NPR, but that wasn't the case with Trump's cabinet and JCS....Trump's choice of Stormy Daniels is a tell. I don't mean to make invidious comparisons but Charley Sheen was much more judicious and discriminating in his choice of porn stars. For the most part, his choices demonstrated more discretion and loyalty than Stormy. Someone who puts his political future in the hands of a porn star named Stormy is simply not a shrewd judge of character.
It didn’t take much to intimidate JFKJr. Members of his extended family endorse Biden and now Jr is falling into line by attacking Trump.
Cook says it's hard not to like junior. But I've never had a problem disliking Kennedys going back to 1960.
The whole family is just a bunch of corrupt shits and has been going all the way back to PJ Kennedy, Joe's father, in the 19th century.
Sean asks if this will be the year the Kennedy's go away.
I would hope so. I doubt it.
John Henry
Junior's dead wife had no problem disliking him.
She disliked him so much that she hung herself.
I had thought it was junior but it was brother Joe. Instead of divorcing his wife he bought an annulment from the church.
This said the marriage never happened. It made their children bastards.
The Kennedys can't go away fast enough for me. Unfortunately they are taking their own sweet time.
John Henry
Is RFK Jr. calling on Biden to debate?
Also, while RFK Jr. is right in some of his criticisms of Trump, I don't know of anyone who would have done better under the circumstances. The Deep State isn't going after Donald Trump because he's rude, uncouth, tweets mean things, lies about his golf score, or is racist, sexist, or antisemitic. No, they go after him because he is not one of them, not beholden to them, and (as a general matter) wants to limit the power of the Federal government.
As president, Trump could not unilaterally appoint his own cabinet; he needed to get his picks through the Senate (i.e., Mitchell McConnell). He couldn't unilaterally set the Federal budget; he could only sign a budget that passed both houses of congress. His only option was to play a game of chicken with congress by letting the government partially shut down. Of course, he would have been blamed, even though congress, was just as much at fault, because the corporate media protects the Swamp. In thevend, I think that is the only way Federal spending will be tamed because I doubt there will ever be the political will in congress to take overspending seriously as a problem.
As for Ukraine funding, I suspect Trump is keeping his eyes on the election. The Republicans have a one-vote majority in the House. He can't have an intra-party feud over the Speakership now, or else there's a real chance the Dems could get control of the House, in which case they will immediately declare him an insurrectionist and thus ineligible to be president.
Supporting Johnson now may be the price to pay to avoid that.
In the end, I would consider voting for RFK Jr. only if he could explain how he would (1) singlehandedly get real reformers through the confirmation process, and (2) how he would limit the size and scope of the Federal government. But I suspect he can't do (1) any better than Trump and has no interest in doing (2). So I dont see how, even theoretically, he's a better choice than Trump.
They're all lying liars who lie. Except RFK Jr. And he's not my political cup of tea. That said, with a heavily numbered Republican majority Senate and the same for the House of Reps he might very well be that great American President. Especially with a Repub legislature to hold him to account.
I think Trump will offer to debate Kennedy if Kennedy can defeat the Democrat Party's legal warfare that is intended to prevent Kennedy from getting on the ballots in the states the Democrats need to win. If Kennedy can't get onto and stay on the ballots, then there is nothing in it for Trump.
Kennedy's policy positions are completely antithetical to Trump's voters. Trump is building up Kennedy as a stalking horse. There was some doubt on the thread from yesterday about who Kennedy takes votes from. This is an easy question to answer- simply look at which political party is working to keep Kennedy off of the general election ballots everywhere- it is 100% a Democrat Party effort.
The Democrats made a big mistake in sidelining Kennedy in the primaries- he would make a far stronger candidate than Joe Biden and would have defeated Biden in the primaries. They made the same mistake in 2016- I think Sanders would have beaten Trump handily in 2016- Sanders would have won Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania in that election by simply driving the turnout higher than Clinton did.
Would we even be having this conversation if it wasn't for Lee Harvey Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan turning Jack and Robert into St Jack and St Bob?
Thanks for nothing, Lee. And special thanks for gifting us Lyndon Johnson.
Junior's father, as saint Jack's campaign manager bears a lot of shame for that as well.
John Henry
A debate would be a pretty good cage match, and I think Kennedy would win, in spite of his dysphonia. Trump's gift is that he knows how to taunt, and it's made every single debate opponent turn purple and start sputtering.
But they've been easy targets for that; he wouldn't do as well against Junior'. Junior' would point out, in his best lawyer-advocate fashion, every single flaw in Trump's term, even the ones that were at the hands of his frenemies. He'd make Trump own his scars.
And what would Trump point out? Junior' has no track record in politics. The only thing to exploit would be some of his bizarre positions, which have already been highly inflated to make them look worse than they are. And none of these positions are policy accomplishments with associated wreckage - they're just beliefs, and people claim to change those all the time.
Vote for one. Support others to keep honest people honest.
That said, Trump was honest and followed through to a degree. People want to know what he would do without the diverse burdens of assumed integrity of public and private actors. He is largely credited with exposing these ostensibly honest brokers who bear bennies.
He promised to protect our rights and then torpedoed the Constitution.
Citation needed.
He promised to run the government like a business and then closed down our businesses.
This is simply false. The president closed down not a single business, as the sole power to do that rested with governors, as was amply pointed out at the time.
He let Big Pharma and his corrupt bureaucrats run roughshod over him as President.
This is dangerous ground for RFK Jr., as a simple rejoinder that Trump promoted individual choice while RFK jihads against vaccines in general like a lunatic ends him.
Etc.
And what would Trump point out? Junior' has no track record in politics. The only thing to exploit would be some of his bizarre positions, which have already been highly inflated to make them look worse than they are. And none of these positions are policy accomplishments with associated wreckage - they're just beliefs, and people claim to change those all the time.
This is extremely naive. All Trump (or anyone) has to point out is RFK Jr's lunatic pronouncements on the proper punishment for global warming dissenters, and equally lunatic statements in support of the generational collective punishment that is reparations. Oh, RFK Jr. can "change" them and all is well? I welcome you to remember the 2004 election and a certain John Kerry.
More Big Sad about Mr. MeanTweets.... What's this country coming to?
"In the end, I would consider voting for RFK Jr. only if he could explain how he would (1) singlehandedly get real reformers through the confirmation process, and (2) how he would limit the size and scope of the Federal government."
Because Bobby's sued every govt agency, he claims to know who the stooges are. Would removing/exposing them work? I don't know.
I would love to see Junior' and Trump hold a table discussion where they brainstorm how to kill the Deep State. If they combined their experiences, they might actually make progress.
"let him point by point answer RFK's arguments"
That would be great for us eggheads but Trump prefers to frame his opponents differently for his own benefit. As a short-term tactic, that works better than wonkery--just ask Ron D. Of course, it also risks antagonizing nice people in the middle who like their politics "serious."
He promised to end the Ukraine war and then colluded with Speaker Johnson...
Had they not funded Ukraine, Biden would have hastened the inevitable loss before the election to blame Republicans and Trump. Trump wants the latitude to negotiate a settlement.
@deepelemblues said 09:55: "Oh, RFK Jr. can "change" them and all is well? I welcome you to remember the 2004 election and a certain John Kerry."
I remember it well. So what? You think Lurch and Junior' are comparable? Lurch had already been making a living off Congress for 25 years when he ran, that schmoozing prick, and he's deeply dishonest. My point is that Trump would be working out on nothing more than 'Junior''s crazy positions', plus other people's wild interpretations of Junior''s positions, and that's just a very poor substitute for having an actual track record to criticize.
I think it would be political Rope-A-Dope. Junior' is extremely adept at maneuvering and laying out his positions in way that appears both reasoned and not only defensible, but maybe endorseable - he's a very good advocate, he articulates well, and can change tack on his feet to reshape an idea into something more palatable. It would be a fun debate to watch, but I think Junior' would win it.
'Even if Trump won't debate, let him point by point answer RFK's arguments.'
You're super smart AA, but you don't understand the game.
Trump doesn't have to debate RFKJ so he won't.
It goes without saying that he doesn't need to give a point-by-point (I prefer dashes here) answer either...
Thinking about Junior, I was trying to think of any other adult Junior's.
Only ones my brain can produce are Junior Soprano. Not a bad secondary allusion for Kennedy.
And junior walker of the Allstars. Does Kennedy have a dog to walk? And where is Commander?
John Henry
I wonder if Trump and RFKJR agree to a debate, if SOBJOE will agree to participate.
“Having RFK Jr.'s candidacy elevated in rhw public consciousness benefits RFK Jr. and Donald Trump. So I suspect a conspiracy here.”
Tacit, if not explicit. RFK wants to be the anti-Trump in the public’s eye. Trump wants RFK, not Biden, to be the anti-Trump, as RFK can’t win but he can spoil. RFK is basically just accepting Trump’s invitation here.
In these politically fraught days, it’s nice to see a Republican and a Democrat in harmony.
Thinking about Junior, I was trying to think of any other adult Junior's.
Only ones my brain can produce are Junior Soprano. Not a bad secondary allusion for Kennedy.
And junior walker of the Allstars. Does Kennedy have a dog to walk? And where is Commander?
John Henry
"...the most adept debater in modern American political history...."
??!!
Hahahahaha! Kennedy apparently can't tell (or is pretending not to know) the difference between an "adept debater" and a profligate liar and bullshit artist.
We can all rail about Jr, Trump and FJB but in my lifetime I have never seen a more stark choice. Climate change RFK Jr by necessity will be even more left that FJB just to accomplish (if even possible). Trump can easily goad him to speak the crazy. However, unlike FJB, he is coherent and not senile.
I remember it well. So what? You think Lurch and Junior' are comparable? Lurch had already been making a living off Congress for 25 years when he ran, that schmoozing prick, and he's deeply dishonest. My point is that Trump would be working out on nothing more than 'Junior''s crazy positions', plus other people's wild interpretations of Junior''s positions, and that's just a very poor substitute for having an actual track record to criticize.
I think it would be political Rope-A-Dope. Junior' is extremely adept at maneuvering and laying out his positions in way that appears both reasoned and not only defensible, but maybe endorseable - he's a very good advocate, he articulates well, and can change tack on his feet to reshape an idea into something more palatable. It would be a fun debate to watch, but I think Junior' would win it.
I've never noticed this quality of effectively malleable rhetoric in him. Like most public men (and women) who have a massive ego, which is nearly all of them, he goes into high dudgeon when challenged.
I also strongly question that having crazy positions is a better situation than having a "track record" - positions with no track record are like a partially blank canvas, allowing the observer to fill in as they choose. It's a natural tendency. And the natural pull of crazy positions is to fill in that blankness with more crazy. A track record can either be a buttress against crazy positions, or a confirmation of their craziness. Let's accept that he has no track record - that means his positions fill that void. And his positions are unpalatable in the extreme on a swath of issues.
The following is a peanut for all you chumps cooing at the corn in Kennedy's shit:
"Covid-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese," he said, according to the video published by the Post. "We don't know whether it was deliberately targeted that or not." -RFK, jr.
We know he has RCOCEAN's vote, how about the rest of you suckers?
He wants a $15/hr national minimum wage. He not only wants to eliminate many small businesses but wants living costs to be as expensive in the Mississippi countryside as it is currently on the west coast. What, he doesn't want that? And is just too stupid to think through the basic math involved? Is that better? Does he care where the money comes from at all? If you read his platform, you'll see he seems to think it's all about big, powerful corporations. Yes, corporate capture is a problem, but most of America's employers are not big corporations. They were the ones who will be devastated.
Even his immigration proposals, pretty much part of what Trump previously was able to get done plus more immigration judges, seems to have a significant focus on increasing wage levels at the bottom. Even the proposals themselves are pedestrian, to say the least. He wants to play too nice, not even pushing for "remain in Mexico" like Trump did.
While RFK Jr. would be an improvement on Biden generally, he shares Biden's myopia if not his callousness. Notice how he doesn't mention all the regulations that got cut under Trump.
If you don't want TRUMP AGAIN, but you don't want BIDEN AGAIN, then RFK is your only choice.
Choose, but choose wisely.
Get off it, anonymouse faux godfather. Grow a pair, use your real name, and explain wgpchich RFK policies you support. Open borders?
Jesus Cracker? You believe this commie liar?
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