Read the whole detailed thread. Quite aside from the fantasy of dressing like men did in 1548, Guy shows it's also a fantasy to believe that men in suits these days are dressing like Cary Grant in 1948.I disagree that you dress like Cary Grant. In this thread, I will list some of the ways in which your dress differs and why such important details matter. 🧵 https://t.co/6hTiPgpxSX
— derek guy (@dieworkwear) April 28, 2024
I was especially interested in Guy's attention to the problem of a collar gap, because I was troubled to see that Biden was allowed to go on close-up camera last night at the Correspondents' Dinner with a giant gap between his shirt and his neck:
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81 comments:
He looks like Jeff Dunham’s sour old man…
Cary Grant came up in my feed yesterday- that Tylor whats her name comedy show had a woman that crushed in him as a kid….
<a href='https://www.instagram.com/p/CEaSNkAn9SU/">Cary Grant walked his cat wearing a blazer.</a>
Director Leo McCarey created Grant's long-time public and screen persona for the role he played in 1937's "The Awful Truth," something Grant always denied. But if you look at Grant's movies before and after, he's stiff and unlikeable before 1937 and mostly repeats the same role thereafter.
I prefer to dress stylishly and I refuse a tight collar squeezing my neck. Give me some breathing room.
Yesterday, I was in the private Writer’s and Artist’s Building on Rodeo Drive. It was built in 1926; Art Deco on the inside. A big picture of Cary Grant on the stair case. A group of pictures of male and female stars. The only one I recognized right away was Fred McMurray in “Double Indemnity.”
My tour guide (a conservative lawyer) was wearing a Trump 2024 shirt. Many favorable comments from women.
I was the best dressed man on the street. Martin Dingman loafers, Levi’s blue jeans, nice belt, red Orvis polo, blue seersucker jacket, Creighton signet ring, cool sun glasses (not aviator’s) and Creighton baseball hat.
The most impressive thing was a flag display in the Beverly Hills park representing all the people murdered by Hamas.
BTW, made an important delivery relative to my, “Frankenstein, Part II.” And saw FF Coppolla’s green velvet tux he wore to the Oscars along with many of the clothes worn for “The Godfather.”
He is wearing a collar size an inch too large. He looks like he has lost ten pounds due to illness but hasn’t bothered to get new shirts because…well because.
I have no idea who this Tristen fellow is, but speaking purely on ascetics as a woman who is attracted to men, I found the pictures of him more attractive than the pictures of Grant, even though I could see the technical issues. The tread mentioned fitness; I guess that’s probably part of it -Tristen’s pics made me think of and appreciate his male body and what I like about it, I just can’t see Grant that way. Maybe it’s just the age - I’m no longer quite so young, but Grant still screams “old” to me. He makes a nice picture, but not an attractive one, IMO.
Of course, I guess if the sexes were reversed, we’d have to add something about how dressing for the (opposite sex’s) gaze is not the point.
It's reminiscent of a ventriloquist dummy
I think you're inviting someone to make a joke here. Too easy.
I remember as a kid seeing beefy men at church wearing a too-tight collar in a dress shirt, and a roll of flesh protruding over the top of the collar.
It was not a good look, even to an 8 year-old boy. Nor is Biden's current look.
I recall at a similar age that Cary Grant was the first man that struck me as being handsome, even impossibly handsome.
Above the law crook has his shriveled weewee sucked by our corrupt Soviet hack press.
Over at Turley, a couple of selfies. No collar gap.
Just to be clear so I can keep it straight
Collar gap bad
Thigh gap good
His facial skin looks stretched and taught - and they slathered him with moisturizer.
Look everyone - crook Joe is young again! come and worship.
Treejoe nailed my reaction at 7:20. In addition the hat stands out, marking the era between the wig period of our colonial past and somewhere around the opening years of the 1960s when haberdashers went from necessary to a tiny niche. Only the Stetson really endured but as regional and less ubiquitous article of menswear.
"Maybe it’s just the age - I’m no longer quite so young, but Grant still screams “old” to me. He makes a nice picture, but not an attractive one, IMO."
But wouldn't you love to have Cary Grant as your father? How he looks in that picture is very close to how my father looked in the 1950s.
Is Biden wearing a mask or did they paint his face with Plexaderm?
Grant looks better than Tristan because he is wearing bespoke Huntsman suits whilst Tristan is wearing what appears to be Brioni or Armani. Huntsman bespoke in today’s cost is around 9,000 for a two piece. About three times the luxury ready made
No, Michael. The whole ensamble zips up the back.
Trump had to cancel all his media dinners - No point in letting the corrupt obedient Soviet press... slime him.
I thought Cary Grant looked like my father, or rather my father looked like him.
Which was sad because my parents were breaking up at the time I discovered Grant in Bachelor and the Bobby Soxxer.
Grant was very fit btw. He started out as a tumbler and stayed in shape his whole life.
There is a terrific recent biopic on Archibald Alexander Leach called "Archie" starring Jason Isaacs
Cary grant was Leah's stage name.
It was either britbox or Acorn via Prime.
John Henry
"his Girl Friday" with grant as a newspaper publisher/editor and Rosalind Russellas his ace reporter and on-again off-again girlfriend is a terrific comedy.
John Henry
Biden can be a crook - he is allowed.
Kristie Noem is finished.
Must be nice to be a Soviet Democratical.
If I start dressing like 1562 shouldn't I carry a sword?
Getting in and out of my car might be tricky.
My homeboy Jose Ferrer really rocked that outfit in Cyrano de Bergerac (1950)
Oscar AND Tony award.
Available on YouTube
John Henry
Tristan Tate is Andrew Tate's brother. I'm not quite sure who Andrew Tate is, but he's under arrest in Romania.
Men wear non-descript colors for dress clothes so people don't notice they're wearing the same outfit over and over again (as everyone did in 1548--and stank), one reason women are constantly buying new clothes.
I wore coat and tie every day to prep school for 5 years, but only for special occasions since because I underachieved. A tight dress collar didn't bother me. A crew neck shirt is unbearable.
It's like his suit is becoming emptier before our eyes
Is it possible to read an X thread without signing up?
Cary Grant walked his cat wearing a blazer.
Just saying.
Calling Kirby Allison! Mr. Allison to the house phone!
My Black Tie Kit Update | Ultimate Tuxedo Wardrobe | Kirby Allison
What I find most disturbing about looking at Joe Biden is the eyes. He seems to be squinting permanently now and I can't figure out why. His eyes haven't always looked like that.
There's a mini-series on Britbox about Cary Grant. It's called "Archie" and is based on Dyan Cannon's memoir. She and their daughter are the producers. I haven't watched it yet though.
Dave B. wears a pinky ring, like a proper villain should.
One word - codpiece.
Mr. O. Possum:
But if you look at Grant's movies before and after, he's stiff and unlikeable before 1937 and mostly repeats the same role thereafter.
Not really Grant's choice. He had to lobby hard to secure "Father Goose". And... he was hardly stiff and unlikeable in "Arsenic and Old Lace" and others.
Old men are the ones who you would mostly see with a collar gap. They got used to a certain collar size, and then their neck shrunk. FJB needs to get new shirts - he could afford it, but we probably would be the ones paying for them anyway. Young guys tended to have the opposite - collars that were too tight. I suppose that it’s because they were used to them being too tight growing up. I realized this, when I started wearing semi-custom, professionally fitted, shirts in my 30s. Overnight, my neck size jumped from about 16” to 17 1/2”. But then, my suits were professionally tailored too, and a non-fitted shirt just detracted from that. Never got to the fitted tie stage, where I think that Trump has been for decades.
No doubt, I probably would have a neck gap these days, since I rarely wear a suit or even a tie anymore, which means that I haven’t replaced my dress shirts since I retired over a decade ago. And the decade before that didn’t wear them that often, despite being in a large law firm at the time. I recently noticed a neck gap in my non dress shirts, and have moved from XL to L shirts. The transition isn’t going well - I usually just grab the XL, after so many years wearing them.
On my ring finger! I’m married to Creighton.
I almost brought my straw Panama hat, but too much of a hassle for the plane trip.
Tristan Tate is Andrew Tate's brother. I'm not quite sure who Andrew Tate is, but he's under arrest in Romania.
Andrew Tate was a professional kickboxer who now runs a grift telling young men about how to be more manly. He started a webcam business and would lure in young women to be his "girlfriends" and then convince them to start working as cam models. Apparently he's been charged with rape and human trafficking in relation to that business.
Sally327 said...
What I find most disturbing about looking at Joe Biden is the eyes. He seems to be squinting permanently now and I can't figure out why.
His skin is too tight. He's had a face lift at some point. Look at pictures of him when he was Obama's Veep and compare that to now. Peoples skin does not tighten as they get older.
The guy on the left is a Landsknecht and would absolutely kick Tristan Tate's ass. Tate can dress like that when he shows that he has the balls to stand in the ranks and push pike against an enemy.
Dieworkwear guy is kind of a lefty douchebag, but he's correct about the importance of dressing appropriately for one's body type and looking for appropriate details. One thing I've noticed is that it's increasingly difficult to find nice suits anywhere. Off the rack stuff is all shit that is increasingly slim and ill-fitting and ill-constructed. It makes you look like a kid who outgrew his church clothes. The problem isn't isolated just to men, a lot of women wear clothing that looks horrible as well: often too tight, cut wrong, lines which emphasize the works parts of her figure (such as skirts that come to mid-thigh), and horrible colors. I blame spandex. It gave fabrics more stretch, and reduced the need for cutting and sewing a garment which could fit someone rather than simply being pulled over and stretched into position.
He's surely wearing an undershirt so that's five layers of clothing on Cary Grant. Impressive.
Mr. O. Possum: Cary Grant walked his cat wearing a blazer? Why his cat was wearing a blazer, I'll never know.
The main difference I see between the two is that Tristian Tate seems to be incapable of doing anything that doesn't scream; "Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!"
Grant, on the other hand, looks like a handsome man in a tailored suit and has an air of; "Oh, you want a picture? Well, I don't see what all the fuss is about, but go ahead."
Teh Infamous P0TATUS Biden Rictus !
Hardly any men know how to tie a symmetric knot in their ties anymore. And none of us have worn fedoras since JFK’s inauguration — in Grant’s case, with his hair, you can see why he’s holding it and not wearing it. As a technical guy I never wore a 3 piece suit and the only vest in my closet is a leather one that is part of an old cowboy costume for Halloween.
Tristan Tate's clothes are tailored like Pee Wee Herman's.
I think Biden looks like that because his face is pumped full of Botox.
“But wouldn't you love to have Cary Grant as your father?”
No, thank you. That would’ve put me in a position where I’d be trying to boink my own stepmother, Dyan Cannon. Not a good look!
Kudos to the ones who beat me to typing "Landsknecht."
Ann Althouse said...
Tristan Tate's clothes are tailored like Pee Wee Herman's.
Pegged trousers.....yuk!
All of his threads are great. He is my Twitter favorite.
I share Cary Grant's taste for monochromes. It's true that I'll sometimes wear a striped shirt, but, in my own defense, I usually cover the flamboyance with a sweatshirt. I don't care for Grant's taste for suits and ties. As a general rule, any event you have to wear a suit and tie to go to is not worth attending. Take the White House Correspondents Dinner.....There's something to be said for the outfit on that fifteenth century guy. Why do pants legs have to match, Ditto socks and sleeves. If you want to make a statement that you think outside the box, you should dress like that guy. Unlike facial tattoos and piercings, you can change your mind later and go back to monochomes.
You could really be a Beau Brummel baby if you just give it half a chance
An aging person loses the ability to absorb nutrients. It's hard to maintain weight. Result: Neck Gap. I'm not there yet.
Why hasn't anyone noted Cary Grant walking a cat on a leash?
There really should be a plaque where Cary Grant walked his cat on a leash.
Back when businesses demanded their male employees wear suits, I dressed like any other
Mr. Corporate. I bought what was then good stuff. Brooks Brothers. Rogers Peet. Hart, Schaffner & Mars. Johnson & Murphy wingtips.
A Burberry trenchcoat now hangs forlornly in my closet.
It used to be an "essential". Now it's just a relic.
(Go to Burberry's website to see how far they have fallen into the fashion abyss. Hideous stuff.)
https://www.lyst.com/shop/mens-burberry-clothing/?paid_session_id=25c8f39a-6133-4fb5-9043-feab452d2188
Aristocratic men dressed flamboyantly, whether they chose the Rouge or the Noir. Then the Reformation happened, and the Puritans and Calvinists came for men's fashion. Equality over individualism. JFK made us lose the hats. Neckties became the last bastion of male flamboyance, until the Silicon Valley informality ruled them out.
Thanks for the Pee Wee reference Althouse. It’s true. I’ll never see a skinny leg suit the same way again.
We must read the same people on X because I found this 'Guy' last night and gave him a follow...very informative.
I am far from a clothes hound though I do really appreciate the beauty of classic fashion.
And you're correct, nobody dresses like Cary Grant. Besides being very handsome, he seemed to be the perfect size for suits. Not too tall, not too thin...
My son (who has the physique of a model and looks great in suits) gave me this advice on clothes. "Dad, the next time you need a shirt or a suit or whatever, go to the Nordstrom men's department and find the gayest salesman there."
I do that now, and it works! I needed an emergency dress shirt for a wedding in Seattle years ago, found the flagship Nordstrom store and located the gayest man there...a bit older like me. By the time I bought the great shirt (they did a custom button no charge) I think he wanted to take me home. Really nice guy. If I played on his team he would have been a catch : )
I can tie a symmetrical knot (full Windsor) but most all my ties are too short and thick.
Last time I wore a tie was perhaps 5 years ago.
In the early days of the web,90s, I had the idea to import fancy pre-tied ties. Clip on and tie with a clasp in the back.
I was going to sell them to women as safety neckties to buy for husband father boyfriend.
I could get very nice ties that would sell for $30 and cost less than $10 delivered.
And then ties in the workplace went out of fashion.
If anyone wants to run with the idea, fine with me. I would like a taste, though.
John Henry
Ha! Good call! He is a ventriloquist dummy. See the earpiece where all his scripted dialogue is inserted into his mouthpiece brain?
Cary Grant wore a suit well. Some just don't carry it, even if its a proper fit.
Mr. Begley- sounds like you were stylin' in LA.
Ann Althouse said...
"Maybe it’s just the age - I’m no longer quite so young, but Grant still screams “old” to me. He makes a nice picture, but not an attractive one, IMO."
But wouldn't you love to have Cary Grant as your father? How he looks in that picture is very close to how my father looked in the 1950s."
Grant was 44 in 1948. Was your dad 44-50 years old in the 1950's?
"What I find most disturbing about looking at Joe Biden is the eyes. He seems to be squinting permanently now and I can't figure out why."
His skin is too tight. He's had a face lift at some point. Look at pictures of him when he was Obama's Veep and compare that to now. Peoples skin does not tighten as they get older.
These were my issues as well. The squint, the tightness - and I would add the shininess.
Once, when we had newly become friends with a couple considerably younger than we were and I was trying not to look so much like our friends' mom (now I just go with it), I bought a sample of some stuff that purported instantly to smooth fine lines around the eyes.
It worked! But it was like painting a thin layer of egg white on the area and letting it dry - it made that part of my face immobile and gave it a kind of gloss that I then had to cover with makeup in order not to look super weird. And that shine and immobility are what the president's public appearances now bring to mind.
The squint, which minimizes but doesn't eliminate the black hole character of his eyes, I chalk up to whatever they've done to his face, but also to drugs.
Maybe it’s the picture, but Biden looks as human as Max Headroom
My youngest went through an interesting period of like three months or more as a 5-year-old in which he wore a tie every day to pre-K. Sometimes he wanted a fancy (button-up) shirt, but it didn't matter; he'd wear a tie with a polo shirt or a T-shirt just as readily.
Some of the ties were real, some pre-tied as John Henry describes, some clip-on. Christmas was easy that year. His school pictures were especially great, as he included a fedora and a fake leather jacket like Indiana Jones's. (I always let my kids choose their school picture clothes - so much the better, in my mind, to remember what their esthetic was each year. My daughter was a princess in pre-K, but hasn't been one since.)
Fetterman's tuxedo sweatshirt for the win : )
"Is it possible to read an X thread without signing up?"
I used to scroll it all the time without an account but that loophole was closed I believe.
I just signed up for an account with a stupid user name and I can read whatever I want.
I never post, but there is a lot on there...
'Tristan Tate's clothes are tailored like Pee Wee Herman's.'
It's a 'thing' these days with young, fit men. Everything is tighter than tight.
If you have 3% body fat and spend 6 hours a day in the gym, you're going to show that shit off.
The part that I hate (besides the stretched jackets just to be buttoned) is the sockless look with loafers and pants that are 3 inches too short.
Are you going to the Opera or the fucking beach?
"Back when businesses demanded their male employees wear suits, I dressed like any other
Mr. Corporate. I bought what was then good stuff. Brooks Brothers."
When I got old enough to afford it, I bought Brooks Brothers (usually on sale) for suits, tux, and shirts.
If you're over 45 or so, it never goes out of style and is well made.
The tux I bought for my son's wedding was $400 at a BB outlet store.
Made in Italy. My tailor was impressed with the quality when I took it in to get fit.
I will never have to buy another unless I get fat : )
Fetterman last night.
Tristan does not have a good tailor.
Dave Begley said...
I was the best dressed man on the street... and Creighton baseball hat.
I'm certainly no fashionista myself, but only in America can a grown man wear a baseball cap and it still be considered stylish.
JRoberts said...
Maybe it’s the picture, but Biden looks as human as Max Headroom
LOL. He does!
Cary Grant looked great in movies starting before talkies. My father looked like Ronald Coleman in the 50's but like David Suchet later in life.
Cary Grant wore a suit well. Some just don't carry it, even if its a proper fit.
About 20 years ago I worked with a couple guys, one who was a retired Navy captain and the other had a Ph.D. from a prestigious university. The former was totally STRAC. (Do they still use the military slang? My two years was up in early 1971.) No matter what he was wearing he always looked totally polished and totally put together. The Ph.D.? I swear he could go into his office, put on a suit that was still fresh from the dry cleaner, and in 10 or 15 minutes it would look as though he had slept in it. When it comes to suits it is the man that maketh the clothes.
“Them doodads ain’t lapels unless you can see them from the back”
(Liar’s Poker, Michael Lewis)
There is no universally elegant collar. How a collar fits depends mostly on the shape of the face of the owner. And when wearing a tie or bow tie, the knot should depend on both the face dimension and the collar type. People should consider this when buying a shirt, possibly bespoke, and accessories. I would add the knot would also depend on the tie fabric and make.
FWIW: The 1946 Grant checkered jacket is a notch lapel.
There's a meta-theme here that no one seems to have mentioned. This meme has been around for a long time, but with dapper Cary Grant on the left and a bizarrely dressed, flamboyantly non-conformist modern man (who might not even be an actual man) on the right.
An example is here:
• https://www.reddit.com/r/terriblefacebookmemes/comments/ab7wgo/how_could_this_have_happened/
and another is here:
• https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/d7741c/before_and_after_cary_grant_tried_lsd/
Apparently the current iteration is meant to show that fashion runs in cycles, and presumably Cary Grant on the right would be the bizarrely dressed nonconformist, from the point of view of the medieval dandy on the left.
This is a new idea (you might have thought fifty plus years ago…). It started when Richard Burton turned up for some awards ceremony or another in an evening suit with a white silk polar neck shirt and no tie. But then Burton, piece of work that he no doubt was, was one of nature’s true originals. Not the same thing as the homogenized ‘celebrity’ of today. Who cares what they wear? It’s all been done before anyway.
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