Writes Jonathan Turley in "Did The Democrats “Tank” The Second Trump Trial?"
February 13, 2021
"Yet, there was a glaring omission in the substance of the House arguments. The managers... only briefly touched on proving any 'state of mind' needed for such a conviction."
"That is why I have referred to their case as more emotive than probative. It lacked direct evidence to support the claim that Trump wanted to incite an actual insurrection or rebellion against the United States, as alleged in the article of impeachment. I do not believe that an acquittal was inevitable in this case, but it was all but assured by critical decisions made by the House in this impeachment. The unforced errors discussed below raise the question of whether the Democrats 'tanked' the trial.... The House is not alleging reckless or negligent conduct leading to a riot. It is alleging incitement to actually seek rebellion or overthrow of the country. The article specifically refers to section 3 of the 14th Amendment in its prohibition of anyone holding office if they 'engaged in insurrection or rebellion against' the United States. Even moderate senators who condemned Trump for his speech would be highly unlikely to convict on such an article.
The House made it easy on those seeking acquittal.... The House brief in the Senate further highlighted the lack of direct evidence on Trump’s state of mind. It laid out an emotionally charged but legally incomplete case for the Senate. To convict, the House needs to show Trump was more than reckless. It crafted the article as inciting an actual rebellion or insurrection, not mere negligence."
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There was never any intention to take this seriously. It's merely red meat, a circus for their masses. There will be more of it to come.
It's Bread and Circuses until the Visigoths show up.
Was their intention to covict, or just to blacken Trump's name?
First, witnesses and now no witnesses? Joke.
As the Capitol Police let everyone in,, the unarmed Trump supporters and fakers on the left, ...
Trump would have some good witnesses. All of the people who where there to rally with Trump peacefully - saw something different.
AS with all the things - if the left cannot lie, and be given cover to lie, it usually collapses.
The Democraticals and their Pro-Man-Boy-Cultist LLR's and Uni-Partiers long ago dispensed with the "evidence" standard and now act as a Fully Operational American Soviet Death Star Lavrentiy Berias with the power to obliterate any and all planetoid-sized constitutional rights and checks and balances.
Their intention is to see that he never be allowed to run for office again. As if they have that power. They are delusional.
It's not only the left's fear and loathing of Trump - and his influence -
The left want to make sure everyone understands the modern democrat party is THE MOB, and you will be destroyed if you try to take away Hillary's power.
tcrosse: "Was their intention to covict, or just to blacken Trump's name?"
You are thinking far, far, far too "small" and narrowly.
This first official American Soviet Show Trial is an attempted gigantic leap forward on the path of establishing a completely overpowering federal state entity with implemented Social Credit scoring and the outlawing of opposing political views.
If you believe this is anything less than that, you need to reconsider how you are analyzing this situation.
The sequel to impeachment is even more self-incriminating. Demos-cracy is aborted at the Twilight Fringe in a trial by press subject to emotional appeals.
Breezy: "Their intention is to see that he never be allowed to run for office again. As if they have that power. They are delusional."
They are not delusional.
They control the DOJ/FBI and will have zero difficulty conjuring up creative new "laws" and "interpretations" of laws that would ebd up before a DC jury and a Judge Sullivan who will do whatever the hell they want to do for whatever reason they want and whenever they want to do it.
These were not “unforced errors.” The whole charade was ridiculous to start with. There was no error free way to proceed on an erroneous quest. So maybe they would have been forced into different errors. That’s the best argument you can make. We will never hear the results of the investigation into the break in, any more than we were ever told what happened in that secret trial regarding Charlottesville. Somehow I get the feeling that if it had been damning to Trump, it would have leaked.
How long before the D's try to impeach Trump again?
The Biden DoJ will indict Trump and his family. Count on it. As Drago points out, the trial will take place in D.C. They will get Trump one way or another.
"The House made it easy on those seeking acquittal....”
By not having any evidence of wrongdoing.
sounds like it's time to start the 3rd impeachment!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-acquitted-in-second-impeachment-trial-for-inciting-jan-6-capitol-riot
The dems are/were running cover for Pelousey because she knew beforehand there were plans to attack the Capital and did nothing.
She should be in jail. Piece of shit.
no man (or woman) has EVER been proven not guilty of wrongdoings more than (former) President Trump
He has been Closely examined, time after time; and the investigations have PROVED that he is above board, and performed his duties COMPLETELY WITHOUT issues
NO OTHER President can say that!
Blackened Lives Matter?
tcrosse said...
Was their intention to covict, or just to blacken Trump's name?
Ask Gina Carano.
Yes, Trump is either the most innocent public official in the world, or he is the greatest most brilliant criminal genius that ever lived, 2 times smarter than any DA or FBI agent, and 20 times smarter than any Journalist. There is no other alternative.
They didn't tank. They're just stupid.
Turley is off. With 7 GOP votes, the House Managers got the moderates. I agree that willful standard a problem somewhat. They could and should have gone with recklessness. But, boy, why won't he admit that Trump deserves to be barred from taking office again after his conduct from Election night thru 1/6?
To convict, the House needs to show Trump was more than reckless. It crafted the article as inciting an actual rebellion or insurrection, not mere negligence.
It may be legally dubious, but in the securities enforcement space, "recklessness" is sufficient to establish scienter, distinct from mere negligence (e.g. negligence is insufficient to establish liability under Section 10(b) if the Exchange Act or Rule 10b-5, but the same conduct with mere negligence can establish a violation of 17(a)(2) or (3) of the Securities Act). What precise mental state constitutes recklessness is a little vague. Sometimes it seems to be an extreme negligence, and sometimes it's disregard of a known risk. Given that Turley doesn't explore this, I assume the impeachment managers didn't bother to address the issue at all, so this is neither here nor there. But negligence and recklessness aren't necessarily the same, and an argument could be made that showing recklessness ought to be sufficient. Although for my part, mere recklessness seems insufficient for either treason or other "high crimes and misdemeanors."
McConnell allowed GOP Senators to hide behind jurisdictional rationale for acquittal. Even though he created the jurisdictional issue as maj leader!
Why would they read hearsay into the record when McCarthy was probably in the audience, or at least in town?
2/13/21, 2:52 PM
Presumably to impeach mccarthy's assumed false testimony.
I dunno readering---why shouldn't Hillary Clinton be banned from running for office again based on her conduct since election night 2016? No reason to worry about that. Chardonnay will sink the old girl's chances anyway. But what the heck, maybe Hillary and Stacey Abrams can run for "re-election" as a team in 2024.
A few weeks ago I said Trump was an asshole for making his supporters believe that he could successfully fight the election results. But I'm starting to rethink that. Quite possibly it was the best thing Trump could do to diffuse a potentially explosive situation.
People could see for themselves that the outcome looked shady, and Trump voters felt cheated and were furious. If Trump had said in Nov that he accepted the results of such an obviously tainted election his base would have felt betrayed, demoralized and marginalized, and we might've seen something much more violent than what happened on Jan 6th.
From Nov though Jan Trump's rhetoric made his supporters feel that he was still fighting for them. And that gave hotheads time to cool down.
The Dems, and their corrupt minions in the media, fucked up by being so blatant in their attempts to cheat, that they left Trump with no choice but to call them on it. To not do so could've been a disaster.
"There was a glaring lack of substance..." Was all that needed saying.
"Did The Democrats “Tank” The Second Trump Trial?"
The choice of managers assured failure. The question is if the Democrats failed intentionally, and I don't think they did. Pelosi is mental and that accounts for a lot.
readering said...
McConnell allowed GOP Senators to hide behind jurisdictional rationale for acquittal. Even though he created the jurisdictional issue as maj leader!
It had nothing to do with the faked evidence the democrats were trying to pass off.
Now compare to the Obama administration using the Executive Branch to attempt to affect and then reverse the election of 2016, an election nobody considered even remotely rigged. It's nothing short of a disaster how poorly our generation protected the greatest experiment in human rights and rule of law in the history of mankind. It's effectively lost at this point. Maybe not unrecoverable, but it's unlikely we have what it takes. Maybe a future generation will rise to the very rare occasion of courage and vision needed.
readering said...
Turley is off. With 7 GOP votes, the House Managers got the moderates. I agree that willful standard a problem somewhat. They could and should have gone with recklessness. But, boy, why won't he admit that Trump deserves to be barred from taking office again after his conduct from Election night thru 1/6?
Do you think the house managers that knowingly introduced faked evidence should be impeached?
What would happen to a lawyer who knowingly introduced fake evidence in court?
My suggestion for people who were so offended by Trump’s speech is to not vote for him when he runs again.
"What would happen to a lawyer who knowingly introduced fake evidence in court?”
You mean like Clinesmith when he submitted an altered email to the FISA court so that they could surveil the Trump campaign? The answer is nothing as long as the crime is in the cause of fortifying the selection against Donald Trump.
Short answer. You must be smoking something. The whole kerfuffle this morning caused by yesterday's ambulance-chasing latest lawyer's lies about his client on 1/6. Assume they never actually discussed the matter.
McConnell made it clear he acquitted on jurisdictional grounds and despises Trump
When will Dr. Jill Biden make a statement?
The question to ask is how were there any democrat votes for conviction. What kind of morons or co-conspirators are they?
The republicans who voted for conviction are that kind but that's been stipulated.
I know Althouse thinks a conviction is a possibility but she's a woman and can't do structure.
McConnell made it clear he acquitted on jurisdictional grounds and despises Trump
And yet seven of his colleagues voted not only was Trump responsible, but that that this is what an actual attempted overthrow of the government looks like.
Sen. Dopey Burr of North Carolina
Sen. Sneezy Collins of Maine
Sen. Sleepy Cassidy of Louisiana
Sen. Bashful Murkowski of Alaska
Sen. Happy Romney of Utah
Sen. Grumpy Sasse of Nebraska
Sen. Doc Toomey of Pennsylvania
Once Trump said grab them by the pussy no woman can do structure concerning Trump. Feelings tunnel across every structural channel.
Absence of intent is evidence of intent. Obamacares part deux. Throw another baby on the barbie, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants, it's over.
"McConnell made it clear he acquitted on jurisdictional grounds”
They absolutely fucking refuse to give Trump his day in court on anything. It’s amazing.
I find Turley quaint and very cute, like an old fashioned Victorian Gentlemen who thinks the old rules still apply. The Democrats have made it clear they don't give a damn what the Constitution says, or the truth, or whether the charge is proven or even a "High Crime or Misdemeanor". The Constitution is what they say it is. And they will do anything they want to do as long as they have the votes.
50 Dems and the seven Rino's including Sasse and Romney were going to convict Trump before this "trial" started NO MATTER WHAT. if tomorrow, they schumer/mcconnnell/Pelosi decided to restart ANOTHER impeachment they would vote to convict Trump in a 3rd trial. They are scum. And all this grading the legal performances is irrelevant.
They tried to do this with Bush, too. That is a trial by press to share/shift responsibility in the Katrina maneuver. Not the first, not the last, but a progressive action when deemed politically congruent.
"There was a glaring lack of substance..."
The color and content of evidence doesn't matter. Evidence of color under color judgments (i.e. diversity) matter. It's a Pro-Choice religious dogmatic belief. That said, the sequel to impeachment is even more self-incriminating.
Romney is definitely a piece of shit. The others may just be stupid, but Romney wants revenge.
Like McCain after Trump called him out on his hero act.
And all this grading the legal performances is irrelevant
Law is a light-weight religion established and upheld through force. When the principles evolve, mutate, progress, then the rule of law is indistinguishable from a cult. Throw another baby on the barbie, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants. Forward!
but Romney wants revenge
Whether redistributive or retributive, change is the theme of this period.
I believe the House Managers only did this whole thing to Santa Clause their lawfare queen staffs. Shame on them. How much money money can they waste filling the swamp.
Mitt Romney will never hold a nationwide elected office. No Democrat would vote for him and most Republican/conservative voters will shun him. Why did he fuck himself so?
Looking at the first "news" coverage of the impeachment trial acquittal today, it appears we've reached Peak Slime in our Soviet Media...
https://abc7news.com/politics/trump-acquitted-senate-votes-57-43-at-impeachment-trial/10336167/
It's ABC-TVs San Francisco outlet, so what can you do; but note the source was the Associated Press.
Because he’s a scumbag Chickelit. It’s that simple.
They are delusional wrt the law. US Congress can not deny anyone to try to be elected. That institutions are corrupt is not a factor. It’s the law.
People don't understand what a shithead creep Romney is, because he's a smooth talker, engages in a lot of "God Talk" and has a nice family and has good manners. The Ken Doll looks help too. But he'll do and say anything to hurt people he doesn't like or achieve his objective.
what kind of man, a 65 y/o multi-millionaire and former Presidential Candidate, assumes a fake twitter name so he can anonymously defend himself on-line and attack the President? Or viciously attacks all his rivals during the primaries while buttering up his supposed enemies? Or asks Trump for money in 2012, asks for the secretary of state job in 2016, and asks Trump for his endorsement in 2018 and then trashes, lies and smears Trump when he's gotten what he wants?
Of course, Romney made his $$ as a corporate raider who bought companies and then shipped their jobs overseas. And wanted Goldman Sachs bailed out but not the auto workers. And all the while talking about Jesus!
Readering said...
McConnell made it clear he acquitted on jurisdictional grounds and despises Trump
And made it clear he supports using fake evidence.
And democrats used faked evidence.
And Readering supports lying in trials to get whatever outcome is necessary.
If their goal is dividing Republican voters, maybe this worked. We’ll see.
As to the Senate, it was the usual suspects including Burr plus Cassidy. . I guess Cassidy doesn’t like being a Senator, because that was a useless act of self-immolation. Sasse will be gone asap. Twomey is retiring. Collins just got reelected. I have always believed she is there when we need her and we didn’t need her here. Lisa is playing with fire, but maybe she wants out. Mitt creeped out as usual. They can all go onto the TV circuit.
Personally, I am giving Trump the benefit of the doubt in saying that he did a very reckless, stupid, and self destructive thing on January 6 but he didn’t incite a civil insurrection. I wouldn’t vote for him in 2024 primaries. I hope he will play a constructive role in beating the Dims out of power in 2022 and 2024. What are the odds?
Night Owl said...
A few weeks ago I said Trump was an asshole for making his supporters believe that he could successfully fight the election results. But I'm starting to rethink that. Quite possibly it was the best thing Trump could do to diffuse a potentially explosive situation.
I said that at the time, when Trump refused to break faith on election theft in the Twitter statement he made after his rally speech. To do otherwise would have communicated abandonment, and would have left his supporters unmoored.
I attributed the ensuing criticism of Trump to what other politicians lack in comparison with Trump: Empathy.
Trump intuitively understands the needs of his voters, even if it's mere recognition of their concerns, in ways that make career politicians just seem selfish and blind.
Does anyone believe that one Senate vote turned on the nuance of intent in the pleadings?
Senators view themselves as lawmakers, not jurors.
Oh they've divided the Republicans. Laugh out Loud! Yes, those crafty D's FORCED McConnell to attack Trump and treat this unconstitutional clown show as a serious matter. And the D's FORCED 7 RINO's to vote with the Democrats to 'impeach' a Republican President who's no longer in office!
Here's a fact: No Democrat Senator has ever broke party discipline in the 3 impeachment trials of 1998, 2020, or 20201. The current vote is 97-0 to convict Trump, and 45-0 to find Clinton Not guilty.
Traitors are traitors. If you're upset at the D's "dividing the R's" talk to the 7 RINO's. Otherwise its like saying the British divided the Americans by paying Benedict Arnold to betray America.
THe goal was NOT to "Divide Republican". The goal was to DESTROY TRUMP and by extension the 75 million who voted for him. And that goal has not changed.
74 million!
I'm going with gross incompetence and terminal insanity (of the Dems, not trump).
If you count the ones put in dumpsters, changed, or thrown out along the highways by your type of patriots, it's over 75 million.
There was an actual coup attempt when Pelosi asked the Joint Chiefs to not obey trump's orders and to take away his nuclear codes--and then as if that wasn't enough, she called up the national guard which only a governor (for his state) or the president can do. The speaker of the house has no such authority.
"He has been Closely examined, time after time; and the investigations have PROVED that he is above board, and performed his duties COMPLETELY WITHOUT issues..."
Using today's modern technology, you could make the argument that Trump is the most vetted person in the history of the world.
Pelosi asked for a coup. That's what so damn frustrating about Mitch the bitch and McConnell and his bunch of retards. NOTHING the Democrats do, is bad enough to get any real pushbacks from this weak cowardly Republicans. But damn, they LOVE to go after someone on their own side. Whether its Trump or MTG or whoever. Then its vicious and unrelenting.
The point was to show the video and say the word "impeachment" in the same sentence as "Trump," and other mostly-symbolic gestures. After having accomplished that, and knowing they were going to look worse the longer they kept talking, they folded. Mission accomplished, they may think, and they may be right. But symbolic rather than real victories are unpredictable.
This "trial" was never anything but a demonstration of the extreme vindictiveness of Nancy Pelosi and her merry band. For all they think they are the Good People and therefore can do no wrong, they are actually terrible people - individually and as a group. Trump had more positive accomplishments in four years than Obama did in eight, and they just can't stand it.
Impeach in haste,
Repent at leisure.
No Democrat Senator has ever broke party discipline in the 3 impeachment trials of 1998, 2020, or 20201. The current vote is 97-0 to convict Trump, and 45-0 to find Clinton Not guilty.
#MeToo #HerToo #HimToo #SheProgressed
That said, they have demonstrated a novel ability to play with double-edged scalpels. But, can they abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants, and have her, too? Maybe. Pro-Choice is the religion of choice for a large and progressive minority. The sequel to impeachment was even more self-incriminating and enlightening.
I think Trump blew the post-election. Yes, he acted in good faith, and he may very well be right that questionable changes in election procedures in recent months affected the results in some key States, but it should have been clear that there was NOTHING that could be done to overturn those results.
Pres. Trump: You have given great and important service to the United States. Biden is trying to undo what you accomplishhed. Go to work to support Republicans who will try to undo what Biden and rhe Democrats are doing. You don't need to be President again, but you need to encourage others to advance the policies that you supported.
MOSCOW MITCH= a REAL SHREWD CHARACTER and see through as a window pane. Mitch McConnell refused to hold an impeachment trial while Donald Trump was in office. And on Saturday morning, he told his colleagues he would acquit Trump because the trial is unconstitutional since Trump is no longer in office. BRILLIANT
“While a close call, I am persuaded that impeachments are a tool primarily of removal and we therefore lack jurisdiction,” McConnell wrote to Senate Republicans. (He joined 44 Senate Republicans earlier in the week in voting that the trial was unconstitutional. (senate votes otherwise) that was bridged.
McConnell helped created the very timeline he’s now claims is forcing his hand.
Of course, McConnell helped created the very timeline he’s now claims is forcing his hand. A week after Trump incited a violent insurrection at the US Capitol, Democratic leader Chuck Schumer asked McConnell to hold an emergency trial, but McConnell refused to bring the Senate back from recess.
Much was made of how McConnell might vote to convict Trump. He sharply denounced Trump for his actions on the Senate floor. “The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people,” he said on January 19.And the big Mitch speech after he acquits, of course trump was guilty and did everything they said but I'm Moscow and that show I roll. BRILLIANT
Anyone that thinks that the Dims can be turned out of power by Trump voters alone needs to explain the math. Anyone who thinks that the Dims can be turned out by "reasonable" GOP moderates alone needs to explain the math.
That's what I mean by saying that if the Dims' goal was to divide the GOP vote with this stunt, it may have worked.
The early returns are not promising for us, seeing the reaction to my very mild comments. Hint: our enemies are the Dims, not a few wayward senators whose votes were meaningless anyway. Trump was acquitted, as it was always clear he would be.
Trump did a lot of good things, but he really flubbed the election and the aftermath. He needed to take a hard look at the 2018 congressional election and see how many seats were lost after the polls closed. And that 50,000 vote "find"that turned Scott Walker out of office was a warning. Instead, Trump used the 2016 tactics again. He did nothing to counteract the late changes to the voting rules in battleground states. Why didn't he have his own vote-harvesting operation? He clearly fumbled his "assist" to the Georgia senate candidates.
We are going to need every vote we can get to defang the gang surrounding Biden. And he is not a nice or decent man. Harris is worse.
They think we are as dumb and uninformed as their supporters. That is their first mistake.
And then Crazy Nancy went on the war path, because she didn't get her way. She was stomping and stomping those feet of hers, but nobody would change the verdict for her. WAHHHH....Poor Nancy... Go home and eat some of your designer ice cream...Choke on it. (sorry, not sorry....she is evil, and has been since she goaded the Tea Partiers with her giant mallet.) I hope she is suffering A LOT.
And now the Nancy Minions want retribution...https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/02/13/blue-check-says-everyone-must-target-every-senator-who-voted-to-acquit-and-go-after-every-single-aspect-of-their-lives/
"The Washington Post
@washingtonpost
Opinion: If Republican senators acquit Trump, they will own the violence that follows
What violence is Milbank talking about? “If he gets back into office and it happens again,” or leftist mobs smashing windows in D.C. just after Mayor Muriel Bowser told businesses to take the boards down? "
Who's inciting violence now??? They have all along, although you wouldn't know it by the pravda media....
It THIS why they boarded up all the buildings in cities around the country?? Because they were EXPECTING the left to be unhinged if he won, and they are expecting the same right now. Let's see the real mobs form now..and watch it come crumbling down.
Professor Jacobson says YES!!!.... yes, she did tank it...TWICE!!!
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/02/trump-acquitted-nancy-pelosi-becomes-first-house-speaker-to-bring-two-failed-impeachments/
"They bring a knife – we bring a gun."
"I want you to argue with them and get in their face!"
"I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!"
"Hit back twice as hard."
"We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."
"The other party's victory would mean hand to hand combat."
"Punish your enemies."
"I'm itching for a fight."
Such combative political discourse must have been from Donald Trump, right? Except, Trump didn't say any of the above. Barack Obama did. And we all watched as our country divided in at least two parts because of HIS rhetoric. When do we IMPEACH this bastard who started it all??? HE is the reason why Trump was even elected....to combat HIS hate and rhetoric.
Jonathan Turley thinks the House tanked. Nah. They thought they could skate on emotion. They thought video of raging mobs would create a raging mob of Senators. Yeah, no.
Now, for the sake of what's left of the Republic, let's move on. Trump is out of office and, my guess is, won't run for office in 2024 because he understands the odds. As an aside, Cocaine Mitch made a grievous own-goal error yesterday by using speech time to grind a personal axe against Trump. He only hardens people more, for and against. His comments almost guarantee this will not end.
Omission is the wrong word. Turley continues to peddle the lie that this was a legal, rather than political, matter. The Democrats successfully smeared Trump with the incitement accusation, and got seven nominal Republicans to help them. Now we are treated to this positioning from the left, by way of the NYT: "Trump acquitted of inciting insurrection, Even as bipartisan majority votes 'Guilty'". Mitch says Trump, despite the acquittal, is morally responsible for the insurrection and violence of Jan 6, 2021. Never mind that the insurrection was the most docile and least effective in recorded history.
Should Trump choose to run in 2024 you can be sure that his 'guilt' will be trotted out as fact and used to beat him up just like the Charlottesville Fine People lie and the Russian collusion hoax. He truly scares and threatens them that much; in their minds at least.
What trial?
Sure wasn't one in the house (yeah, I know the language of the Constitution).
Posturing in the Senate, but no real trial.
Not a single Democrat thinks the situation falls outside on the actual intent of impeachment.
Trial? Feh.
Trump has been very focused post election, perhaps his banning on social media has helped to focus his attention.
Trump has been very focused on the gop and voter fraud.
There is so much more I wish Trump had spoken out on, Jan 6 political prisoners is a huge one.
Notice how he says the minimum in Covid and moves on.
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