There are places where he clearly talked about a peaceful protest march. He says: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." And: "So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue... So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."
But here are the 7 most violent statements. Please, if you can find anything more violent or more related to the idea of breaking into the Capitol and physically disrupting the proceedings, let me know, and I'll add it to the list. This is what I've found and have put in order from least to most violent:
7. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
6. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal…. We will not let them silence your voices.
5. The Republicans have to get tougher. You’re not going to have a Republican party if you don’t get tougher.
4. [W]e’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed, and we’re not going to stand for that.
3. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.
2. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.
1. Together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Posts
214 comments:
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I’m so old I remember when a famous man said “Punch back twice as hard” and “They bring a knife, we bring a gun”
“Speaker 1: (01:02:52)
We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you.”
So we have been mislead.
Again?
The nation's press--in charge of just making stuff up.
So- no inciting violence, then? This is my shocked face- not.
Seems to me he incited a peaceful march. It's really hard to come up with the material in the text to say anything else.
Ooooh! That is some sedition, right there!
Seriously, Prof. A: thanks much for doing the hard work of reading and distilling his remarks. I need to go do my homework but this is pretty amazing. If this is the new standard for hanging traitors and killing their FB accounts and rounding up their supporters and sending them to the camps, then I think we're all done.
Ann, the new standard (witness the banning of Trump for saying he would NOT attend the inauguration) is that if it's a republican, it can inspire violence and it must be shunned and removed.
You will not be able to be in the middle.
Violence is a word. So is beauty.
I agree with Ann's take on it. There is absolutely nothing in this transcript that anyone not blinded with Trumpunity can reasonably see as anywhere close to incitement. Not even in the same solar system.
Twitter is the modern equivalent of the soap box.
We know what they did to the ballot box.
We're running out of boxes.
Well then, the MSM and their sycophants will just make shit up and all those living in their progressive bubbles will lap it up.
It's all good.
...Aaaaannnnd Twitter permanently banned Trump.
Chuck:
You should have committed digital seppuku after Pecanpiegate, dude.
Ah! Here, I found one:
"We gonna burn this motherfucker down"
(Sorry, I got transcripts mixed up. That was someone from the mostly peaceful riots of last summer.)
Syme chiming in, you can see the 1984 reference, to orwell's minitrue associate, who was turned in ironically by his children,
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
Seems to me he incited a peaceful march. It's really hard to come up with the material in the text to say anything else.
And yet the media, Democrat swine and others don’t share your truth. Continuing contempt and insults to intelligence.
And they wonder why tens of millions people are upset.
Telling Republicans you won re-election in a landslide is like persuading Democrats that Russia stole the election from Hillary Clinton by the actual hacking our voting machines: If you believe either of those absurd things, the only reasonable response is to riot.
My Word of the Day: CORKSOAKERS
Trump wanted the protest voices as a counter to the media narrative that shouts the opposite, about the election fraud. Encourages Congress, is the thought; the media will have to cover the voices outside.
Trump was outfoxed again.
That's it? That's the "incitement to violence"? The Democrats and their media/tech buddies are idiots with matches.
I find Trump's speeches moronic and boring, but I'm not the intended audience. His zingers are great.
9A5AET is calling CQ in my background. That's the voice of democracy, Croatia.
We are so fucked. The press blatantly lies, social media companies suppress free speech, and the populous has no practical way to know the truth. I don't see a way out of this dilemma.
"Telling Republicans you won re-election in a landslide is like persuading Democrats that Russia stole the election from Hillary Clinton by the actual hacking our voting machines: If you believe either of those absurd things, the only reasonable response is to riot."
Which is more absurd, that Biden won at all with 1 out of 19 bellwether counties, or that Trump won in a landslide with 18 out of 19 bellwether counties?
Althouse is on her own way to hate speech classification here.
I always ask, what are we trying to do here?
What was the object of the intended “March to the Capitol?” Were they going to present a petition? Were they going to sing “We shall overcome?” Were the going to rip into the Capitol and take Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, and Mike Pence hostage until they agreed to certify the Trump electors? Were they going to set the place on fire? Were they there to show that some of the 75 million people that voted for Trump were unhappy? But what about the 80 million people that voted for Biden? Wouldn’t some of them be unhappy at this new protocol for dealing with electoral votes?
The second question I ask is, what did you think would happen when you did that? Wouldn’t you think that tens of thousands of marchers who have been routinely sneered at, insulted, laughed at, lied to, seen others lied to, stifled by the tech giants, locked up for dubious reasons for months might be a bit volatile? They’ve been told that they have been cheated again. Didn’t it occur to Trump and his team that things might get out of hand? Won’t some of those people think that BLM and antifa have been getting away with this for years, so now it is our turn? Did Trump know who was in that crowd? How many sociopaths? How many mentally ill?What about the Capitol policeman who was killed and the fifty that were injured? Didn’t Trump think that something like that might happen? What wiil Trump say to that cop’s family?
The bottom line is that wise and thoughtful people don’t do things like this. This hare-brained scheme was intended to disrupt things with no thought as to what would probably follow.
I voted for Trump twice and I applaud many things he achieved as POTUS. But his post-election behavior has been foolish indeed. He turned on every true friend who told him the truth about his situation. The Democrats out-smarted him with mail-in ballots. No one knows who voted in this election, and there was no way to sort it out in the time allowed. He needed to hink ahead. Instead, hhis supporters disgraced him at the Capitol, as he should have foreseen they might.
Oh, yeah, that's threatening alright...../s
Original Mike:
Remember that Presidential Emergency Broadcast to all cell phones that they tested a couple of years ago?
I bet we're going to hear it again before this is over.
The feminine of Nazi is Nazie. I don't know if gender distinctions will be allowed in the case of Althouse, when her writing comes to light.
You know, the polls indicated that Biden would win easily. Why would anyone be shocked that Biden won? He got lucky. Trump got unlucky. Covid plus mail-in ballots did Trump in.
A little purple in his rhetoric, but not much there. Though any language will do as an excuse to crack down on the Democrat's enemies of convenience.
Trump expected the crowd to behave as it always does, starting with the Tea Party. They clean up before they leave.
Little did he know that there were "Let's you and him fight" provocateurs there ahead of him.
So, Amadeus, your stance is that lefties can loot and arson all year long and that confers no disgrace to the Left (at least, Republican "disgrace" is the only kind you seem to feel worth mentioning) while Republicans can't have any valid purpose in any kind of protest at all?
Whatever happened to the right to petition government for a redress of grievances?
He not only needed to hink ahead, he needed to think ahead.
Sheesh.
These statements are incitements to violence in the same way that there are penumbras in the Constitution hiding a right to abortion.
The husband claims it's the "gonna be wild" thing when he exhorted his base to come to DC
Amadeus said, "I always ask, what are we trying to do here? What was the object of the intended “March to the Capitol?”
Why does there need to be an answer to either question other than that the participants wanted to stand up and be seen that they know they were cheated?
Well, Qwinn what do you think Trump should say to the family of the Capitol policeman who got killed?
Of course I don’t think that BLM/etc. should be able to commit riot and arson. I think riots are a disgrace, including the one at the Capitol. What I think is that Trump was a fool to do this march. It wasn’t going to accomplish anything under any circumstances and it was extremely dangerous. Now policemen who were doing their jobs have been injured and at least four marchers are dead.
Great.
Seems to me he incited a peaceful march.
That's what I came away with too. But our views no longer matter. The media, especially social, says Trump incited violence. Biden is announcing he is going to crackdown on the violence. Pelosi, most like rhetorically, has called Trump's action a crime that will result in impeachment.
Now, WalkAway has been banned by Facebook as violent. Click the link provided and you'll find this:
"The #WalkAway Campaign encourages and supports those on the Left to walk
away from the divisive tenets endorsed and mandated by the Democratic Party of today. We are walking away from the lies, the false narratives, the fake news, the race-baiting, the victim narrative, the violence, the vandalism, the vitriol."
That's what Facebook now considers hate speech that cannot be tolerated. How much longer before the purge comes to Blogger? It's already started in WordPress after the election.
Poor put-upon POTUS.
“Seems to me he incited a peaceful march. It's really hard to come up with the material in the text to say anything else.”
Seems to reality that he did incite a mob attack, at the Save America Stop the Steal Rally.
This is going to be Althouse’s new thing like the very fine folks who go to a unite the right rally that brings together various levels of racist groups to protest a local community’s government making a local decision to remove local statues that were originally installed as an FU to minorities getting more rights.
Sometimes I think she needs to do these things because maybe she lives w/ a Unite The Right type of guy. It could be awkward to start seeming things based on reality.
I dunno.
Amadeus 48 @ 7:14: How fair, rhetorically, is it for you to use a dead policeman as a shield for your argument? So is OK, and productive, for others to respond by asking about Ashli Babbitt? If you want to get into it, let's talk about the stellar job done by the Mayor (who ordered the DC police to stay away) and the Capitol Cops (who not only had no plan, they stood by the unlocked door like a bunch of janitors as the protestors filed in --no violence, only a few random obscenities)? Should Trump, who said nothing remotely seditious, be blamed when everybody in the establishment couldn't find their backside with both hands, allowing a borderline incursion to blow up horribly? Should Trump, who said nothing remotely seditious, take the fall for a tiny minority of those many tens of thousands present, to take it into their heads to go far beyond any intent express or implied in what he said, for them to trespass and shove and pilfer some souvenirs; and when the cops finally get serious, people end up dead? What does the chain of culpable causation look like here? Are you prepared to be held accountable on the same criteria, the same logic? Such a spider-thread of guilt by association?
I think you're grasping at straws. And I fear that the 75 million MAGA voters may not buy your arguments.
Earnest Prole said...
Which is more absurd, that Biden won at all with 1 out of 19 bellwether counties, or that Trump won in a landslide with 18 out of 19 bellwether counties?
By “bellwether” I assume you mean the way Republican candidates of the past have won over traditional Republican voters in traditional Republican districts. Surely you must be aware that Trump radically upended traditional politics, which in turn decreased his support in traditional Republican strongholds and increased it in traditional Democratic districts. If you’re unaware of that you probably shouldn’t be arguing politics here at all, much less the 2020 Presidential outcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_election_bellwether_counties_in_the_United_States
when democrats ACTUALLY INCITE VIOLENCE, it's all cool.
Sprezzatura—
1. Your knowledge of the complicated events in Charlottesville appears to be limited.
2. Althouse has been parsing language carefully for years. That is one of her interests.
3. You appear to paint with a broad brush and a thick head.
Good luck with that.
If you think those statements were incitements to violence, you have a weird sense of violence. Don't ever read Tom Paine. He'd seem like Conan the Barbarian on crack.
That's it? Quite the weak tea.
It makes no difference. The censorship has begun. We will all be silenced soon.
Oh well.
Am,
I did know about the torches, Jew&you chants and the woman who was killed. But sure, maybe I should have included that stuff.
Thanks for you suggestion.
So in other words Trump didn't 'incite' anything. Which is what a 3 year old knew from the start. Why would Trump "incite" violence? he was trying to get the R Senators to help him out. IN any case 200,000 people heard his words and only 200 walked over to capital hill. But maybe the 199,800 who didn't were hard of hearing.
This is just Charlottesville all over again. The same lies, the same propaganda, the same cries that Trump is inciting violence, or praising Nazis. ALL LIES. And the same Establishment Republican clowns trying to destroy the Trump voters, and snuggle up to the MSM and the Democrats.
When are people EVER going to stop believing the MSM and being gullible rubes? I guess never. They've been lying about Trump for 4 years, and people still think they're objective reporters!
Stop trying to reason with people about Charlottesville! You dumb rubes. They know its all lies, stop imputing good faith to them, and start attacking and/or mocking them.
I think Dems argue that Trump's use of the word "fight" was an incitement to violence. That's BS, of course. Politicians routinely use that word in the non-physical sense, that is, in the sense of "work hard to achieve what you want." Or are we to assume that Joe Biden's moronic campaign slogan, "Fight for the Soul of a Nation" (snort), was an incitement to violence?
But just look at the transcript that Ann has linked to and you'll see that Trump was using the word "fight" in its non-literal, non-physical sense.
"For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans, and that’s what they are. There’s so many weak Republicans. We have great ones, Jim Jordan, and some of these guys. They’re out there fighting. The House guys are fighting...."
Obviously, Trump is not saying that Jim Jordan and other House members are physically fighting anyone.
Then there's this:
"Did you see the other day where Joe Biden said, 'I want to get rid of the America first policy.' What’s that all about, get rid of …? How do you say, 'I want to get rid of America first?' Even if you’re going to do it, don’t talk about it. Unbelievable, what we have to go through, what we have to go through and you have to get your people to fight. If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to let you know who they are. I can already tell you, frankly."
Clearly, Trump is not saying that weak Republicans who won't engage in physical fights should be primaried. He's obviously talking metaphorically.
Another example:
"Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us."
Again, he's not saying that Republicans are engaging in physical fights "like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back." He's using the word metaphorically.
Discussing his accomplishments and the election, he said:
"So we’ve taken care of things. We’ve done things like nobody’s ever thought possible. And that’s part of the reason that many people don’t like us, because we’ve done too much, but we’ve done it quickly. And we were going to sit home and watch a big victory. And everybody had us down for a victory. It was going to be great. And now we’re out here fighting."
Needless to say, him giving a speech and the crowd listening to it is not fighting in the literal, physical sense.
Continued ....
"When are people EVER going to stop believing the MSM and being gullible rubes? I guess never. They've been lying about Trump for 4 years, and people still think they're objective reporters!"
If only he didn't post all those mean tweets. Just think what might have been.
More:
"But it used to be that they’d argue with me, I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight. I’d fight, they’d fight. Boop-boop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out. They had their point of view, I had my point of view. But you’d have an argument."
And still more:
"With your help over the last four years, we built the greatest political movement in the history of our country and nobody even challenges that. I say that over and over, and I never get challenged by the fake news, and they challenge almost everything we say. But our fight against the big donors, big media, big tech and others is just getting started."
And even more：
“Our brightest days are before us, our greatest achievements still wait. I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, ‘I want to thank you very much,’ and they go off to some other life, but I said, ‘Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.’ And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”
All these examples clearly show that Trump's use of the term "fight" metaphorical. Anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you.
Owen-thanks for your thoughtful reply to my comment.
What I think is that “Stop the Steal” implied that action should be taken. It was a huge crowd. Emotions are raw for a number of obvious reasons. The Congress was in session. The march to the Capitol was headed for trouble, and it found it. Ashli Babbitt found it, but she was clearly bent on entering the Capitol regardless of the rules in place. What kind od encounter leads to a policeman being killed and fifty others being injured. What I think is that peaceful assembly doesn’t lead to that. That was the whole message of the civil rights marches.
The Stop the Steal march to the Capitol wasn’t going to accomplish anything, and God help us if it did.
According to the wiki article: "Election bellwether counties in the United States are counties that vote in alignment with the country as a whole in United States presidential elections, so that the county votes for the candidate who ultimately wins the election."
I don't know enough about whether they are traditionally Republican strongholds but I doubt it as many of them voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. The article Meade cited doesn't go into that much detail. Did Hillary really have that much strong Republican support?
Meanwhile, walking around my neighborhood I spotted "Resist" signs still on car bumpers, and they aren't referring to Biden obviously. Resist how? Sounds like sedition suddenly and possibly supporting violent overthrow of the democratic system.
Also, in case people have short term memory loss, prior to the November, 2020 election many towns and cities chose to board up store fronts in case Trump won. So who's violent?
Thank you Althouse. I assumed worse. That’s some weak shit to impeach on Nancy! Do these people not realize we all heard far worse from them over the summer! LOLGF
It's because you're a fucking troll Chuck.
Cryp,
You only started. If you want to look at the history of DJT, have at it:
https://www.vox.com/21506029/trump-violence-tweets-racist-hate-speech
Trump outfoxed? well Limbaugh's take was correct. He criticized Trump for believing the Democrats would just allow Trump to walk down to the Capital with all his supporters and discuss the Election fraud. He should have known they would never do that. That the D's were setting up the situation for violence, so that they could then claim he incited it, and blah, blah, blah.
Personally, I thought Antifa was going to launch an attack, so the Media could report that "Trump supporters attack leftwing protestors". but their actual plan of simply leaving the capital unguarded and almost inviting people into the building was much better. Reports from eyewitnesses are that the vast majority of Protesters did nothing. Some window breaking and some destruction of property from a few rowdies. How many Antifa false flaggers? How many anarchists? How many people who just wanted some action? We're only talking a few people.
The hysterical overreaction is shown by the fact that only 2 Police man were hospitalized and whether either man was attacked is unknown. 5 dead, but 3 were medical emergencies, 1 was murdered by trigger happy Cop, and 1 policeman MAY have been hit on the head by a fire extinguisher.
If you ASSUMED Trump incited violence, you're an ass.
"If only he didn't post all those mean tweets. Just think what might have been."
Yep. If only Twitter had banned Trump in 2017, he'd still be President. All the Establishment Republicans would've loved him without the tweets!
Folks: Jason Whitlock is EN FUEGO.
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/whitlock-ignoring-the-concerns-of-trump-supporters-will-destroy-america
WTF, hostess? Are you high? Not only are you a coward (for not voting), but this makes you an ass.
THEOLDMAN
Sprez,
So is the claim now that some things Trump said two three, four, five years ago incited the Capitol Hill riot two days ago?
If you want to persuade people of that, have at it.
Why is Chuck still here?
You can't tell me 85% of the commenters here wouldn't storm the capitol pitchforks in hand if they really believed the election was stolen & fraudulent.
That's the part where Trump's actions cross the line: he is bullshitting the more naive portion of his base, yelling fire in a crowded theater as it were. Sorry but the US President needs to be more careful with his words, and be held to a higher standard of accountability than animal skin guy. It comes with the job.
They (apparently successfully) stole the election from him.
Now they are gas-lighting him.
Good luck with that: 70 plus million people can easily see what is going on, plus a major percentage of the idiots who voted for Biden
Everyone knows that.
Amadeus 48 @ 7:46: "...The Stop the Steal march to the Capitol wasn’t going to accomplish anything,..."
Beg to differ. Obviously everybody reacts differently to media events but it seems to me that when you get the President of the United States addressing --what-- a hundred thousand people on the Mall, while Congress bickers over the final tally of what many believe, not without reason, was a stolen election, that was an accomplishment. That goes in the history books. That goes viral on social media and, we can dream, even on mainstream old media. Similar in shape, if not in impact (or for some, moral weight), to the MLK Jr March on Washington. MLK Jr spoke in soaring terms of essential issues: like equal and fair treatment for all. Why, I think he also was concerned that some people were being wrongly denied the vote. And what, at bottom, was Trump speaking of? He knew that his term was done, the fix was in and he had to abide by the crooked result. But he would fight on, less for himself than for all those millions whose franchise was denied to them.
That's the kind of spin you can put on something like that. Assuming the media would let you. But of course, they wouldn't. They weren't about to let Trump get any Transcendent Moments.
Cryp,
I mostly make glib, snide and useless comments that make me laugh. An audience of one.
But, it looked like you were into evaluating how DJT jabbers re violence. Looking for patterns. So I gave you a long record re that stuff.
Re persuade, no I don’t do that. Too boring.
I was subjected to CNN this afternoon, they had everyone who'd ever had a grudge against Ted Cruz on telling every one that he was "literally Hitler". No examples, just that Ted Cruz is a son of a bitch. Anderson and co. were egging them on.
I said it over on the Twitter post and I'll say it here. If Biden wants to be a healer and a uniter he needs to get out there, call for calm, and tell the talking heads in the media to shut the fuck up! Otherwise he's going to have Civil War on his hands.
"You can't tell me 85% of the commenters here wouldn't storm the capitol pitchforks in hand if they really believed the election was stolen & fraudulent."
You believe this?
There were planned speakers scheduled at the Capitol. Brandon Straka, Trump...
But whatever..that building will have plenty of security footage and perps will be prosecuted. It's a bit odd that the Capitol cops were at times letting folks in as if no problem.
Dems and their tech allies are happy to not let a crisis go to waste...even at risk of obvious overreach.
And good on Joementia for equating Cruz and Hawley with Nazis for the sin of challenging electors via constitutional procedure.
Unity!
“when you get the President of the United States addressing --what-- a hundred thousand people on the Mall”
On a recent edition of the recent Steven K Bannon podcast (War Room Pandemic [translated into Chinese, BTW]) one person did a report and noted five hundred thousand people, later another person was reporting about the two hundred and fifty thousand people in the crowd.
That’s shitty propaganda. Get your numbers right!
IMHO
“What I think is that “Stop the Steal” implied that action should be taken.”
As long as his followers believe the election was stolen and Trump as POTUS doesn't correct this deranged fantasy, his followers will act as if they need to FIGHT to right this terrible wrong.
Please stop making excuses for Trump for the love of God.
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...I was subjected to CNN this afternoon
--
Cool. Where were you flying to?
Why is Inga still here?
"So I gave you a long record re that stuff."
You gave a link to a weak article that didn't make your case.
Inga, I wasn't asked to leave. If I were, I'd have to decency to say goodbye and move on. You, I am afraid, are no decent person.
Patrick said...
"You can't tell me 85% of the commenters here wouldn't storm the capitol pitchforks in hand if they really believed the election was stolen & fraudulent."
You have a poor opinion of us. But I can see you doing it.
"That's the part where Trump's actions cross the line: he is bullshitting the more naive portion of his base, yelling fire in a crowded theater as it were. Sorry but the US President needs to be more careful with his words, and be held to a higher standard of accountability than animal skin guy. It comes with the job."
Now that's just funny, right there. Where were you when a president said, " They bring a knife you bring a gun."
Higher standard of accountability my ass. You have no standards. Free speech is free speech. Now piss off.
"
"Sorry but the US President needs to be more careful with his words, and be held to a higher standard of accountability than animal skin guy."
I had to laugh when I read that. Animal skin guy didn't make a speech, it was more of a performance.
Biden has made a public statement that if #BLM protesters had stormed the Capitol they would have been shot. How was that a unifying statement? His promise of unifying the country has already been broken and he hasn't even been inaugurated. He not only invites comparisons between the violence of Trump supporters and antifa and #BLM, but also seems to be inciting #BLM to make the Capitol a target in the future if their demands are not met.
I mostly make glib, snide and useless comments that make me laugh. An audience of one.
But, it looked like you were into evaluating how DJT jabbers re violence. Looking for patterns. So I gave you a long record re that stuff.
LOL! Your link to vox makes Gateway look sane by comparison.
Multiple examples of Trump humorously saying "Get 'em outta here" as authorities remove violent leftist trouble makers from rally.
Laughingly saying he might join rally participants jokingly saying "Lock her up".
Pretty funny stuff, thanks for that.
Oh, And let's not forget the always popular "FINE PEOPLE".
Ann, This is one of your best blog posts ever. Very enlightening. Thanks.
Marcus,
You sound drunk.
Blogger Marcus said...
WTF, hostess? Are you high? Not only are you a coward (for not voting), but this makes you an ass.
THEOLDMAN
1/8/21, 7:56 PM
You say this to Althouse and then ask why I’M here?
"But, it looked like you were into evaluating how DJT jabbers re violence. Looking for patterns. So I gave you a long record re that stuff."
No, I was responding the claim I had heard that Trump's use of the word "fight" at the rally was an incitement to violence.
Biden has made a public statement that if #BLM protesters had stormed the Capitol they would have been shot.
Pretty obvious Biden is threatening BLM and sending a message to law enforcement to shoot protesters at the next BLM virus free riot.
Inga's here because she thinks Althouse is a "dumb bitch".
But then..she's cool with a toilet in Georgia shutting down swing states' "counting".
Probably has a Ruby Freeman poster.
walter said...
Cool. Where were you flying to?
Nowhere. Sadly, I have family members that eat CNN's shit up and beg for more.
BLM has not received enough deference from police, pols or corporations.
Kneeling is a dog whistle. So is dedicating a plaza or offering to shine shoes.
Sneaky.
Marcus at 9pm: "Why is Chuck still here?"
The same could be said of many a container found in the back of the breakroom refrigerator.
Antifa is just an idea
...but Trump inciting violence is manifest ?
I saw on this very blog pictures of downtown Madison this summer. Business boarded up due to peaceful protests of law enforcement in the local community. Celebrities offered to pay bail for anyone arrested. DA’s routinely chose not to press charges. The DOJ and FBI refused to open investigations into who might be rallying these peaceful protests. Yet business needed to board up.
Similar events happened in cities across the country.
You can tell me Trump incited domestic violence. My area never boarded up and has been very peaceful. I’ll have to take your word, and there seems to be plenty of such words. Good luck convincing those in the boarded up neighborhoods. I’m sure they are getting the message. I wonder how they hear it?
Oh yeah, wear the damn mask and don’t meet with people outside your immediate family. Cancel any party or social event. Welcome to 2021.
Full M,
Your summary of that Vox thing is what looks like Gateway. Sure, it showed that DJT is a fun loving joker.
Right.
Ann:
Nice work on this. Thanks.
I take back all of those bad things I said about you.
[But a review of my post indicates that I never said bad things about you]
No matter.
Full M,
Your summary of that Vox thing is what looks like Gateway. Sure, it showed that DJT is a fun loving joker.
Right.
Typical Vox example of Trumps terribleness.
OMG!!! HOW SCARY AND VIOLENT!!!! LOL.February 17, 2017: In what the New York Times called a “striking escalation in his attacks,” Trump tweeted that the news media is “the enemy of the American People.”
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 17, 2017
Russia Russia Inga forgets that all the lies about Russian influence stole the election from poor Hillary - and all the lies and lies around impeachment....incited violence from top people including Maxine WAters.
but not limited to her.
It also included Nancy Pelosi.
Recall when the word "target" was bad? Sarah used it. (democrats use it all the time)
The hack press and the D party were just warming up.
Please, if you can find anything more violent or more related to the idea of breaking into the Capitol and physically disrupting the proceedings, let me know, and I'll add it to the list.
------------===========
I have to say to you that for a nuance-mancer (language parser) above desire is dishonest.
closing the gallery was to prevent physical presence of audience which the rulers deemed to be disruptive and threatening.
let me pose the issue this way >>> which is more essential access for the people or security for the elected? >>> why could not the elected arrange for access with security?
He didn't say "bring a gun to a knife fight"? Son of a gun, I thought that he did. It's all in the eye of the beholder, Baby.
Nice try, Althouse. The charge of incitement also goes to the organization of the rally, not merely what Trump said at the rally. The evidence to be presented would go back before Election Day, to when Trump starting planning what he would do if he would lose.
@Inga: As long as his followers believe the election was stolen and Trump as POTUS doesn't correct this deranged fantasy.
The legacy and social media were completely in the tank for Biden, to the extent their activities should be considered contributions in kind.
This election was rigged before the first vote was cast.
@ left bank; An officially permitted rally and march is incitement?!
Ah yes, Trump attempting to exercise all legal avenues, including those explicitly written in the US Constitution and exercised by Democrats in 2016, is incitement to violence and insurrection. The left was so peaceful during Trump’s inauguration.
Trump inviting people to the Stop the Steal rally...
“Big protest in D.C. on January 6th,” Mr. Trump tweeted on Dec. 19, just one of several of his tweets promoting the day. “Be there, will be wild!”
Yeah...clearly violent.
"Trump inviting people to the Stop the Steal rally...
'Big protest in D.C. on January 6th,' Mr. Trump tweeted on Dec. 19, just one of several of his tweets promoting the day. 'Be there, will be wild!'"
So THAT's the "incitement" to violence? You're really going with that, huh?
Seems to me he incited a peaceful march. It's really hard to come up with the material in the text to say anything else.
He incited a peaceful march and it devolved into a riot. My two questions for all who want to play:
(1) Does it matter whether it was foreseeable? (My answer: of course!)
(2) Was it foreseeable? (My answer: Of course! I read the Althouse comments.)
It's funny how things are always so easily foreseeable after they happen.
Based on the horrible record of Trumpster violence at previous Trump rallies, it was absolutely irresponsible.
By the way, if so foreseeable, Bowser should have taken appropriate actions.
Wasn't there prior announcement of National Guard call up?
Weird..
"Based on the horrible record of Trumpster violence at previous Trump rallies, it was absolutely irresponsible."
I assume that is sarcasm and that you forgot the "/sarc" tag.
ft Bank of the Charles said...
Nice try, Althouse. The charge of incitement also goes to the organization of the rally, not merely what Trump said at the rally. The evidence to be presented would go back before Election Day, to when Trump starting planning what he would do if he would lose.
*****************
More LoserThink from Left Bank, where he claims entirely without evidence that he knows what Trump planned to do if he lost.
Karnak on the Charles?
Kreskin on the Charles?
I dunno...
And now Apple says it will ban the Parler app.
Is anyone familiar with the Sherman Anti-Trust Act?
January 6th DC was more peaceful than hundreds of BLM rallies in the nation this summer. Democrats have been cheering on murder and looting and violence all year.
Cheering on the Gleischaltung is a bad look.
Whoever comes next is going to make Donald J. Trump look like Mitt Romney.
D.D. Driver said...
Was it foreseeable? (My answer: Of course! I read the Althouse comments.)
**************
DERP.
Referring to after-the-fact comments to prove it was foreseeable is itself a contradiction in terms.
ullMoon said...
Biden has made a public statement that if #BLM protesters had stormed the Capitol they would have been shot.
************During one of his few lucid intervals, has anyone shown Biden this video of protesters peacefully being let into the capitol by the Capitol police?
https://twitter.com/christina_bobb/status/1347596278583197698
You can see them walking all the way up and into the Rotunda.
Some "storming"!
"By the way, if so foreseeable, Bowser should have taken appropriate actions.
Wasn't there prior announcement of National Guard call up?
Weird."
Excellent point. Similarly, if it was foreseeable, the Capitol Police should have been better prepared. And if it was so easily foreseeable, we should have been flooded with predictions and warnings in the days leading up to the rally that rioters would storm the Capitol, right?
Walter— are you being ironic? I can’t think of any violence at previous Trump rallies.
The point I was making is at the end of a long, emotional year with total chaos resulting from stupid over-reactions and senseless lockdowns imposed by tin-god state governors like Cuomo, Murphy, Pritzker, Newsome, and Whitmer it was likely that a Stop the Steal rally and march to where the electoral votes were being debated was likely to end badly, and therefore should not have been held. Now Trump’s many accomplishments are clouded as he has attacked his friends as harshly as his foes.
This isn’t good politics. It isn’t even good PR.
Patrick said...
You can't tell me 85% of the commenters here wouldn't storm the capitol pitchforks in hand if they
************
there's yer problem, right there.
* you assume, without reason, that since we didn't do that, THEREFORE we don't really believe the election was stolen & fraudulent.
Never mind that covid lockdowns, lack of money and pitchforks might have kept us away.
But the most revealing part of your idiocy is the part where you say, "You can't tell me."
Precisely. No one can talk you out of a false premise.
Fool.
This is escalating quickly.
It appears the left sees this as their window of opportunity to foster a communist revolution. May God help us recognize the evil that we face and do what must be done.
If the left accuses the conservatives of attempting an insurrection it is because they are themselves attempting an insurrection.
Amadeus 48 said...
Walter— are you being ironic? I can’t think of any violence at previous Trump rallies.
The point I was making is at the end of a long, emotional year with total chaos resulting from stupid over-reactions and senseless lockdowns imposed by tin-god state governors like Cuomo, Murphy, Pritzker, Newsome, and Whitmer it was likely that a Stop the Steal rally and march to where the electoral votes were being debated was likely to end badly, and therefore should not have been held. Now Trump’s many accomplishments are clouded as he has attacked his friends as harshly as his foes.
This isn’t good politics. It isn’t even good PR.
**************
The old Sesame Street jingle popped into my head as I read this:
"One of these things is not like the other thing, one of these things is not the same..."
Trump knowing full well that the Capitol was being breached, tweeted this...
“Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021
That tweet came roughly 10 minutes after it was reported that Pence had been escorted off the Senate floor—where he was presiding of the electoral college tally—in response to aforementioned protesters breaking through police lines and entering the Capitol.”
https://reason.com/2021/01/06/trump-tweets-about-mike-pences-betrayal-while-his-supporters-force-the-v-p-to-evacuate-the-capitol/
Crypto—
National Guard alesrted?— “Trump is planning a coup.”
Bowser to act?— she’s a partisan hack. She probably likes the outcome.
Capitol Police?— those Tea Party people sure were polite.
The fact that this was a one time thing didn’t make it a smart thing to do. What were the marchers trying o accomplish? Wasn’t it disruption? What did Trump think would happen?
I think Trump threw away an election he could have won with more self-discipline. This riot is a function of the same problem. He threw away his future power and influence.
Politics is chess. Trump played checkers. (Credit to Holman Jenkins)
"Capitol Police should have been better prepared"
I initially thought there were about 5 armed officers behind Ashli Babbitt, but other videos show that the small area they were in was packed with more police than protesters.
Those police, many in swat gear and carrying automatic weapons, simply stood there and did nothing until the killer stepped forward and murdered the woman.
Were they unprepared or was the inaction the plan?
“A Reuters photographer said he heard at least three pro-Trump rioters at the Capitol on Wednesday saying they wanted to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging.
The photographer, Jim Bourg, tweeted that he heard the rioters "say that they hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor."
It was a common line being repeated. Many more were just talking about how the VP should be executed," he added.
Trump has repeatedly and falsely claimed that Pence could have stopped Congress from finalizing Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 election, even though Pence has no such legal or constitutional authority.
When Pence released a statement saying he could not stop the process, the president publicly turned on him, tweeting that Pence didn't have the "courage" to do what was necessary.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/reuters-photographer-says-pro-trump-rioters-wanted-to-hang-pence-2021-1
Referring to after-the-fact comments to prove it was foreseeable is itself a contradiction in terms.
After the fact? Derp, back at you fella.
Go back and read Qwinn, Birkel, Achille, Mockturtle, and the rest of the merry Boogaloo gang.
Any right thinking person should be disturbed.
Yes, Amadeus.
"When Pence released a statement saying he could not stop the process"
Pence framed it as deciding the vote unilaterally, when the ask was to honor the various states asking for a time limited reconsideration based on newer evidence surfaced.
“A Reuters photographer said he heard at least three pro-Trump rioters at the Capitol on Wednesday saying they wanted to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging.
LOL. And he,a professional photographer covering an historical event, along with Tom Arnold and Omarosa has the audio ,or video, to prove it.
Amadeus, I never expressed an opinion on whether or not the march to the Capitol was smart or would accomplish anything. All I am saying is that the "storming" of the Capitol was not reasonably foreseeable just because a march to the Capitol was planned. (I say "storming" because some video shows them being let in.) Demonstrators march to or rally at the Capitol ALL THE TIME. They are often very passionate about whatever they are demonstrating for or against. We accept this in our republic and expect that the Capitol Police won't just open the doors for them to come inside and mill about. We expect instead that the police will be ready, willing, and able to keep them out. Sorry, but the blame here belongs with the Capitol Police.
(1) Does it matter whether it was foreseeable?
I know the EXPERTS did not foresee any problems.
Or are you accusing the Capital Police of ignoring a known threat? That willfullness alone would far exceed any tweets from the President of the United States
Its almost worth switching sides to the leftist, just to get the nifty mind reading super power.
It's nice you went through his speech.
I didn't bother, why?
Because you should know by now, no "incitement" by any normal definition of the word existed.
How did I know this, while you felt the need to verify?
1) the media.
2) no actual quotes to support any headline or article about "incitement"
They're just making shit up.
Like they have for the past 4 years. (well longer, but it really hit new levels with trump).
The photographer, Jim Bourg, tweeted that he heard the rioters
OK now we have established statements overheard, are evidence.
Good, Because there are thousands of affidavits, signed under the penalty of perjury, that is evidence election fraud.
As least we can dispose of the nonsense about no evidence of election fraud
Thanks for clearing that up Inga
The mistake of the Wednesday protests at the US Capitol is that the protesters didn't flood the Capitol and Occupy it. Peaceful protests are easily ignored.
Whose House? Our House.
Agee with Crypto. I keep thinking of the "million-person" marches over the years. If one of them got violent, the crazy show the other day would be a pop-gun by comparison.
It doesn't matter what he really said. The corporate media said he incited 'insurrection' and the devotees of that media will believe that absolutely. And they used it to cut him off from communication, and they want to use it to impeach him and remove him from office. This is some scary @#%@.
It was a long speech, no? That was the problem. Give short sweet speech and invite everybody to the White House for ice cream. You can afford that.
I want to thank Althouse for this effort. Reading the transcript of an hour-plus-long speech is not a trivial task.
It saved me the trouble of reading the transcript.
After the lies the media has told about Trump over the last few years ("fine people on both sides", "praising Robert E Lee as a great general", "You've got to find me 12,000 votes" to name a few) plus the whopper Chuck Todd told the other day ("You can't make allegations that are not proven to be true"), I was pretty confident Trump had not "incited" violence. Althouse's efforts support that confidence.
Never mind that Trump also told his supporters to "go home in peace". And threatened anyone damaging Federal property with prosecution. That's much more than certain governors did last summer. And it's consistent with Trump's positions on these matters at that time.
Yes, any large gathering can turn violent. But what might be foreseeable is not inevitable. Were it otherwise, we should all stop driving cars. Or even leaving our homes.
Prof AA, thanks for the analysis.
Mainstream social media is now banning major and minor conservative accounts. Rush just got banned from Twitter. #walkaway got banned from Facebook.
Welcome to your future.
Trump did very well for three years, surprisingly well for someone who had never held public office before. He didn't do that well for the next eight months, but no national or state leader did. Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg or Kamala Harris wouldn't have done any better. The last four months have not been good, starting with the first debate, then the election, then the incompetent lawyers and now this.
I'm struck by the meme, "Trump was planning before the election to say that the Democrats cheated if he lost." That got a lot of play before the election. But the people who promoted the meme never asked whether the Democrats were going to cheat.
I was ready to doubt the crowds cheering "Hang Mike Pence," but it's on video. It was stupid of Trump to go after his own VP and stupid of fans to go down that road with him. Pence's options were limited. The most he could realistically do was give Trump's advocates a hearing. He wasn't going to overturn any certified votes if Congress didn't sanction it. And Congress wouldn't.
"Rush just got banned from Twitter"
Rush deactivated his account.
Lurker,
States encountering their "irregularities" were I guess his advocates. Do you consider Cruz's suggestion of a pause and acomodation to state legislators was beyond VP's purview?
You might seek Eastman's thoughts on this.
Pence could have tried to reject the electors with some legitimacy (I would say in this specific context he'd have equal power to the Speaker or Senate Majority Leader in their respective venues to control events), but no one was demanding he do so. What WAS at the very minimum expected was that he would remand the certifications back to the state legislatures that had specifically requested he do so. When he didn't do even *that*, and *that* he clearly had the power to do, is when we all knew he'd betrayed us, and that's why he's hated now.
I don't hate Mike Pence. He signed on with a guy that a lot of people hated, Donald J. Pence did an admirable job as VP. I wish he had sent those electoral votes back to the States, but he thought different. I accept that.
I hate that he has to take a lot of abuse for the rest of his life.
D.D. Driver said...
After the fact? Derp, back at you fella.
Go back and read Qwinn, Birkel, Achille, Mockturtle, and the rest of the merry Boogaloo gang.
Any right thinking person should be disturbed.
You are lying about the protest in DC.
The media is lying about what Trump said and spreading propaganda.
You are parroting this propaganda in obvious attempts to attack your political enemies.
The regime is currently censoring everyone critical of the regime through giant corporations.
Explain how you are any better than the Nazi's in 1933.
Hercules, not that one though said...
I don't hate Mike Pence. He signed on with a guy that a lot of people hated, Donald J. Pence did an admirable job as VP. I wish he had sent those electoral votes back to the States, but he thought different. I accept that.
I hate that he has to take a lot of abuse for the rest of his life.
Pence is a coward.
That is fine.
But every time he looks in the mirror I want him to remember he is a coward and he knelt when it counted. There are people who died for the freedom he betrayed.
It is their right to be cowards.
It is our right to remind them.
Achilles, I hope to fight alongside you in the coming fight. You are passionate, I'll give you that.
Donald J is in the crucible. He brags too much. He goes out of his way to embarrass others. He is having his dross burned away. God is bringing him to his knees.
Mike Pence was not called to this fight. Mike was an adequate servant.
Donald J was called to this fight.
We are blessed to be living now, when all the 'powers that be' are aligned against us.
The enemy surrounds us. Excellent.
The problem is that they're applying different standards to Trump than to their own people. Pelosi said "I just don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be." That's more inciting than anything Trump said.
@Althouse, nice analysis, but if you’re going to pull your head out of your ass, as you have with this post, how about trying to keep it out of your ass 24/7? You’ll see farther and it will smell better. Meade may be able to help. You need to start applying your excellent brain on every issue, instead of letting your “milieu” dictate to you.
Jim S- There's no cryin' in baseball. We're past fairness.
OT- I got a flat tire on FWY today, and couldn't get the nut off the spare tire carrier, because I'm an old man. So I called AAA, and they sent out a truck. The tow truck driver was a GIRL! She couldn't get the nut off either, so towed me to a tire shop. The young man at the tire shop broke through the rusted tire carrier like it was butter.
Equality! Diversity!
As I said earlier, Twitter severing the bond between Trump and his supporters is the greater provocation.
1.) Psychology 101. Trump still maintaining there was election fraud in his after-rally Twitter statement was needed in order implore his supporters to stand down. Specifically, the Twitter narrative misses what Trump understands intuitively: empathy.
The worst thing for Trump could have done at that moment was NOT acknowledge their legitimate grievances while asking them to remain peaceful and stand down.
Had Trump given the impression that even he had abandoned their cause, the potential for violence would have been much greater.
Yet, Trump's opponent are so invested in being proven "right" at the expense of Trump supporters, above all else, they can't see that simple dynamic of human nature.
1/7/21, 11:45 AM
2.) It was evident from the lack of quotations by those repeating allegations of incitement that their claims were "baseless" and needed to be "debunked":
DarigoldVanilla said...
"Please show me where any other democratic leader stood in front of the mob, repeated proven lies to get them primed and directed them to 'fight' (the democratic process) minutes before they committed massive acts of violence?"
Wince replied...
Trump addressed a permitted rally, not a "mob".
What politician can't be accused of uttering "proven" lies.
Name every politician who has never said "fight" for their cause.
What I've noticed is that those accusing Trump of verbal conduct provide very few full length quotations to make their prima facie case.
1/8/21, 9:53 AM
Pence's inactions on the 6th would never make it into a chapter of Ted Sorenson's book, "Profiles in Courage."
THEOLDMAN
Here's the stuff copied straight from the transcript
"they rigged an election. They rigged it like they’ve never rigged an election before"
Basically telling his supporters that their votes had not been counted despite everything pointing in the favour of a fair election and nothing to support his bullshit allegations.
Also, inciting the crowd with the line:"And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore."
Basically telling his supporters
When you are forced to use qualifying language like 'basically' you have closed your mind to reason, and logic.
Very well then, remove basically, it's not possible to edit here. The rest of my point still stands. What is your response to that?I'd like to hear your take on it. Especially the second part.
Or are you accusing the Capital Police of ignoring a known threat?
You may want to Google: "Hey what happened to the Captain of the Capitol Police this week".
Somebody was going to be inaugurated January 20th or Pelosi would become president in a very chaotic Washington. Congress wasn't going to drag this out and Pence couldn't act without congressional support. A lot of things had to go wrong to bring us to this point, and some of them were Trump's own fault. If you wanted a two-week review, that probably wouldn't have happened, and with the riot it certainly wasn't going to happen.
When David Frum was talking about purges 20 years ago, people realized after a while that they hated Frum more than the people he wanted purged. Keep at it with the "traitors" talk and the same thing will happen now. I already don't have more love for the Capitol rioters than for some of the people they wanted to attack.
It's also likely that in a few years some of the people desperate now to get rid of Trump (permanently even, through impeachment) may find that they hate what they put in his place more than they did him, but he hasn't been doing himself much good lately.
I feel like Pompeo gets some blame for mishandling the transition to a second Trump term.
“ Inga, I wasn't asked to leave.”
Inga was. Althouse declared her a troll. I criticized the decision at the time. But she was.
Bllogger jaydub said...
“It's because you're a fucking troll Chuck.”
This is strong, well articulated point.
Give this much to Donald Trump, Jefferson Davis never succeeded in getting the confederate flag paraded through the US Capitol building.
I tried to be well articulated.
I was always of the view that Trump was not playing 4D chess but that he was playing checkers when everyone else — or at least the political class — thought chess was the game. I don’t think Trump a genius in any way except that he knew it was checkers that the world was playing. I went to two Trump rallies and his speeches bored me. Too long. In both cases people began filtering out before it was over. The media, strangely, claimed both speeches were rousing successes with the audience but that’s because they interpreted Trump’s checkers game — long, winding, rambling speeches with a few zingers woven in — as chess games judging them on the basis that he drew a big crowd.
Trump was right in realizing the world stage is a 64-square checkers board but I wish that he sometimes would have moved a piece in a chess move just to flummox the media even more. Alas, he let them paint him a racist, etc. without making a clever move to subvert that portrait.
At any rate, Trump succeeded massively in exposing the darkness underneath our holy city, D.C. Few escaped the light Trump shone on it. God bless him for that.
Readering said...
"Give this much to Donald Trump, Jefferson Davis never succeeded in getting the confederate flag paraded through the US Capitol building."
I like when attempt to be clever. I just shows how vacuous you are. Donald Trump did nothing. it's reassuring though that he lives in your head 24/7.
Much better would have been;" I'll give this to the demonstrators. Jefferson Davis never succeeded in getting the confederate flag paraded through the US Capitol building."
Keep going though. Wit takes practice and intelligence. You might succeed at one of those.
I heard from a local who went to the rally, walked to the monument, and then marched to the Capitol. She went along with the crowd, seeing it as the thing to do. Saw that some people were going into the building. Was on her bus by 4PM. She seemed to think this was all normal.
Of course, she's not playing with a full deck.
I do suspect that the people breaking down doors went there with that intention, and for them the "protest" was a ruse de guerre to get to the doors.
Were Trump etal in on it in advance? I don't know. I'll bet Trump could have known if he wanted to know.
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, that's HORRIBLE!!!!!111111!!!!! (/sarc)
Rusty, it's encouragement from folks like you and Trump's other former Twitter followers that keeps me working at it.
But you figured that out already.
Surely you must be aware that Trump radically upended traditional politics, which in turn decreased his support in traditional Republican strongholds and increased it in traditional Democratic districts.
One half of this statement is inarguably true and borne out by lots of evidence. The other half is a phenomenon that manifest only on Election Day, is alleged by some to be an algorithmic creation, and is not supported by any other data I've seen (in fact Trump had exceptionally high support from Republicans in things like polls and even in closed primary states).
"Jefferson Davis never succeeded in getting the confederate flag paraded through the US Capitol building."
Trudeau may get the credit for that. Rumors (not confirmed) are that the guy with the flag was Canadian. The Confederate Battle Flag is, according to press reports, still quite popular in Canada and concerned Canadians are concerned. They are also concerned about the pre-Maple Leaf Canadian flag for some reason.
Trump radically upended traditional politics, which in turn decreased his support in traditional Republican strongholds and increased it in traditional Democratic districts.
Notice the geographical words "strongholds" and "districts." Trump had massive support among those who still identify as Republicans, but lost votes in areas that had once been strongly Republican. I would throw in a word like "traditional" or "former" to show that the change has been going on for some time. So the president could be overwhelmingly popular with Republicans, but still lose votes that in other years would have gone to a Republican.
So you're positing here that there's a lot of Chucks out there. That's a familiar narrative, but it would be great if you could tick off some of these areas either at the county or precinct level so that we could check that narrative. I think it's mostly bullshit.
But hey, I just think that, and maybe it's true. But where did this phenomenon manifest, and was it limited to highly contested states or felt more broadly?
These supposed demographic and psephological trends, did they happen just in contested states, or did we see such trends also in less contested places with similar demographics? Because Ohio, for example, looked one way, and neighboring counties in PA and WI, say, looked different. Why?
Here's the stuff copied straight from the transcript
"they rigged an election. They rigged it like they’ve never rigged an election before"
Telling his supporters that their votes had not been counted despite everything pointing in the favour of a fair election and nothing to support his allegations.
Also, inciting the crowd with the line:"And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore."
I have posted this comment once before on this same thread and I do this again-after such a thing,does anyone here still support Trump, and if Yes, Why?
Because as the wording in the above transcript proved, he is the one who incited the crowd,not ANTIFA
Blogger Unknown said...1/9/21, 12:48 PM
I'm missing the 'attack the Capitol Building' part.
Joe Smith said...
If you hear a dog whistle, maybe you're a dog.
1/8/21, 6:08 PM
Unknown, I read it the first time:
Basically telling his supporters that their votes had not been counted despite everything pointing in the favour of a fair election and nothing to support his bullshit allegations.
To the contrary. Neither Trump nor (to my knowledge) anyone else has said that his supporters' ballots weren't counted. The allegation has rather been that the votes of Biden supporters were, er, supplemented. Practically speaking, it makes no difference, but it's as well to be accurate.
(In the interests of which I add that there have been a very few reports of trashed or defaced ballots, especially military ballots, which would tend to trend Trump.)
As they've done for the last four years, the left thinks they hear something - or they hope they heard something - and then take it out of context and repeat the lie over and over and over.
If Trump was as awful as you claim he is, you wouldn't have to make up shit about what he's saying and/or doing.
Yet, that's what you do. Constantly. Incessantly.
Assholes. Each and every one of you.
Sorry but the US President needs to be more careful with his words
You mean like punching back twice as hard? You mean like getting in their faces? Knife vs gun?
I could go on, but I suspect it wouldn't make any difference.
To Lars Porsena,
"We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore."
" We march to the Capitol, and I will march with you"
Both statements from Trump's speech. Taken together, this was inciting violence, asking people to "fight".
To Michelle Dulak Thompson:
You're right, practically it makes little difference, but as I said the first time, I can't edit on this site, so sorry about that. This does not mean that his allegations are not false, as Conservative Judjes, people he himself appointed, rejected his Petetions.If there was proof, the Georgia State Government Official who are all Republicans would have certainly said something, even they say nothing happened.
You also said:"(In the interests of which I add that there have been a very few reports of trashed or defaced ballots, especially military ballots, which would tend to trend Trump.)"
While that does sound scandalous, what you failed to mention,(or didn't know possibly) is that multiple in this case meant 9- of which 7 were certain for Trump and two were unclear but possibly for Donald Trump.That is in no way enough to win the election and such small mistakes are expected to happen in an election where 155 million+ voters cast their ballot.
Jim: I'm a moderate, not a Democrat, and I actually voted Trump in 2016.I thought he was a breath of fresh air in our politics but whatever, Life Tip:Try and learn about people before classifying them in groups, or else are you really any better than a leftist who says Orange Man Bad? I am not replying to your second comment as I doubt it's meant for me.
We are so fucked. The press blatantly lies, social media companies suppress free speech, and the populous has no practical way to know the truth. I don't see a way out of this dilemma.
Guns. Lots of guns.
Blogger Unknown said...
To Lars Porsena,
"We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore."
" We march to the Capitol, and I will march with you"
Both statements from Trump's speech. Taken together, this was inciting violence, asking people to "fight".
Fight racism. Fight oppression. Fight the patriarchy........are you ready to fight?
Joe Biden 's campaign slogan: "Battle for the Soul is a Nation."
Clearly, an incitement to violence.
With due respect, Althouse is reading Trump's remarks as if she's a law professor analyzing a legal document. I'm not sure that's particularly helpful, at least not as a solo exercise. Trump's words have to be analyzed in a broader context.
I have a suggested research assignment. Look at Giuliani's remarks, on Jan 6 and before. Look at Trump's remarks since the election. Look at Michael Flynn's remarks over the last year.
Better still, listen to those people talking. We communicate volumes beyond words. Find videos where they have exhorted people to support Trump. Listen to their inflection, observe their body language.
Then, if you're brave enough, go spend a day on QAnon and white supremacist websites. Read what those individuals are saying and how *they* are interpreting everything they are hearing from these key individuals associated with Trump.
You might see things in a different light. Or maybe not. But I think it's worth the effort.
How about going over the things trump tweeted while the rioters were breaking into the Capitol Building?
The election fraud was massive in the big Democrat cities. It was obvious. It was 'in your face'. The Democrats figured out how to get around their deficit in the Electoral College. They are clever, I'll give them that.
There will be no peace. Their will be no 'unity'. Progressives delenda est.
Scott3579 said...
How about going over the things trump tweeted while the rioters were breaking into the Capitol Building?
Oh, I have a thought!
How about, instead of playing bullshit innuendo games, you tell us exactly what it is that Trump tweeted that is supposedly so bad?
I have a rule, that's pretty much never failed me:
If someone says that something said by X is horribly out of line, but they won't tell us what it is they said, or give us links to prove that they in fact said that? That person is full of shit.
Like you are, Scott
His statements should be read not in isolation but in light of everything we know, including the fact that after the sore-loser mob broke into the Capitol and created chaos and destruction, Trump wrote a strangely calm and positive message to them.
Obviously, no one sentence in his speech said: "Please commit burglary and assault the police in the Capitol!" But we can piece things together and look at the effect he's trying to have on people using his power and charisma. Here's some of what Trump said (based on the transcript you linked to but edited by me):
I want to go back 8 weeks! Let's go back 8 weeks! We want to go back, and we want to get this right! We want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there — and our country will be DESTROYED! And we’re NOT GOING TO STAND for that!
For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud! And WEAK Republicans — and that’s what they are, there's so many WEAK Republicans.… You’re STRONGER! You’re smarter! You’ve got more going than anybody! And they try and demean everybody having to do with us! And you’re the real people! You’re the people that built this nation! …
After this, we’re going to walk down — and I’ll be there with you! … We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave Senators and Congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them — because you’ll NEVER take back our country with WEAKNESS! You HAVE to show STRENGTH, and you have to be STRONG! We have come to DEMAND that Congress do the right thing! …
[after arguing that social media sites have an anti-Republican bias:] Mitch and the group … they don't realize that that's going to be the end of the Republican Party as we know it! But it's NEVER going to be the END of us, ever! Let 'em get out — let the WEAK ones GET OUT! This is a TIME FOR STRENGTH! …
We’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue … and we’re going to the Capitol, and we’re going to try and give … we’re going to try and give our Republicans — the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help — we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and BOLDNESS that they need to take back our country! So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue!
I really can't get this to be incited to violence no matter how hard I try to get into a Trump haters mind.
Trump paints a picture, tells an entire story--beginning to end--of how he expects it to happen. He asks his supporters to peacefully speak out and show support by marching to the Capitol, not to prevent Congress from acting. He says that he expects Congress to proceed while he and his supporters watch; and, that he hopes Congress will act in his favor and, if it doesn't, believes history will never forget.
"We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
...
Today, we see a very important event though, because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching, because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they’ll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."
The steps:
1. Marching
2. Peacefully and patriotically making their voices heard
3. Watching the leaders in Congress
4. If the leaders do the wrong thing, never forgetting
It's hard to square the plot with violence, which would interrupt the sequence.
The HORROR!!! The horror...
It's hard to square the plot with violence, which would interrupt the sequence.
Really? I think it’s hard to square the idea that all he wanted them to do was stand out on the sidewalk peacefully holding signs, with his repeated statements about how they needed to be “strong” and use “strength” and not be “weak.” At that point, it was obvious that allowing the standard procedures to be followed would lead to Biden being elected president. Trump tried to scare the crowd about that by describing that outcome as something that would destroy the whole country, and he tried to get the crowd enraged about it by falsely saying that would be done by stealing the election. He urged the crowd to stop that from happening by taking back the country. I don’t know how to square all that with the idea that all Trump had in mind was politely, fecklessly holding up signs and keeping all this in mind when choosing which candidates to support in future elections.
Now Democrats want to label MAGA rallies as "domestic terrorist activities."
The Democrat Party has millions of dictators, and their media lap dogs lie 24/7.
Welcome to AmeriKKKa, part 2.
“His statements should be read not in isolation but in light of everything we know, including the fact that after the sore-loser mob broke into the Capitol and created chaos and destruction, Trump wrote a strangely calm and positive message to them.”
President Trump: Go home now. We have to have peace.
I don't have any evidence of electoral fraud, but given that there are anti-Trumpers who have been talking for months, if not years, about how Trump is the greatest threat to our democracy since the Civil War, and that another four years of Trump would be intolerable, and would lead to fascism, is there any reason why they *wouldn't* have committed fraud to keep that from happening and to save the Republic?
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