January 10, 2021

If Trump knew there was a plan to storm the Capitol building, then his speech to the crowd was an incitement, even though he never told the crowd to commit any act of violence.

2 days ago, I read Trump's speech looking for any language that could support the claim that he incited the crowd to storm the Capitol. I wrote a post listing the 7 most violence-inducing statements. They're about fighting and showing strength and never giving up, but they're all consistent with an idea of having a big, traditional street protest — with lots of people marching and displaying their passion for the cause through big numbers, determined-looking faces, and lots words on signs and in chants and speeches. 

But what if Trump knew there was a plan to storm the Capitol? Then all those words are transformed! They become an incitement to the violence, especially if the people in the crowd know he knows. The avoidance of references to violence would be part of a shared understanding — like winking. We know what we're going to do. 

Now, at this point, I don't even know that there was a plan. 

Yesterday, I wrote about a New Yorker article titled "A Palm Beach Proud Boy at the Putsch," and, in the comments, Bob Boyd said, "Putsch implies a plan. There was no plan. It was a protest that turned into a riot." 

I replied: "That's your hypothesis. I await investigations. You have no way to know the extent to which subdivisions of the crowd were acting according to a plan." 

I'm not going to assume either way. Was there a plan or wasn't there? If there was a plan, when did it develop and who knew about it? If it was talked about on social media, the record exists. Wouldn't the FBI have seen it in advance and communicated to the President about it? But then, why was the Capitol not fully protected?! The vulnerability of the Capitol raises the inference that there was no advance knowledge of a plan.

This morning, I'm seeing this at Buzzfeed
The first glimpse of the deadly tragedy that was about to unfold came at 9 a.m. on the morning of the insurrection for one Black veteran of the US Capitol Police....
“I found out what they were planning when a friend of mine screenshot me an Instagram story from the Proud Boys saying, ‘We’re breaching the capitol today, guys. I hope y’all ready.’” 

Now, that's 9 a.m. on the day of the protest, so it could be a plan that arose at the last minute. But Trump's speech did not begin until 1:11 p.m. That's 4 hours of lead time. Perhaps that Capital Police officer is lying or mistaken or perhaps he doesn't exist at all and Buzzfeed is wrong. But it's a fact that can be checked with Instagram. And I want to see all that there in social media, all the evidence of a plan, and what law enforcement knew about this plan, whether Trump was informed, and why there wasn't better protection of the Capitol. 

I have held off from believing that Trump incited the crowd to breach the Capitol. You can see that in my 7 statements post. But if he was informed of a plan, then I will read all of those statements as an incitement, and I would have to say that he should resign.

436 comments:

1 – 200 of 436   Newer›   Newest»
wendybar said...

Then Nancy and the rest of the Democrats who incited left wing violence with their riots should step down also. Fair is fair.

exhelodrvr1 said...

So the Capitol Police were notified about this at 9 AM? Two hours before the rally even started, and four hours before the actual problems at the Capitol began? And they were still that unprepared?

I don't believe that.

MayBee said...

If he knew of a plan, then indeed he should resign.

But it is a big leap from "there was a plan" to "POTUS knew of the plan". Even more, if he knew of the plan, did he think it would be like the Kavanaugh protests? Or did he know they would break glass and put people in danger.

All of these riots this year have been a mess. The guy coming into office encouraged contributions to bail funds for destroyers of police precincts and businesses. He called the Capitol Hill police racist for implying they would have been harsher on a black crowd, even though 4 people died!

All I know is this- if Trump resigns or is impeached, Pence should select a black female VP. History! Herstory!

Lewis Wetzel said...

Althouse wrote: and I would have to say that he should resign.
Based on an unconfirmed rumor printed by Buzzfeed.

Matt Sablan said...

Couldn't one also argue if he was aware of a plan, specifically telling them to be peaceful was an attempt to counter the plan?

Seems like an argument that isn't particularly strong.

rhhardin said...

There's no advantage to Trump in trashing the capitol. His plan is huge peaceful demonstration, which is his counter to the left's tunnel explanations of everything, in support of the republican investigation inside.

Matt Sablan said...

"Even more, if he knew of the plan, did he think it would be like the Kavanaugh protests? Or did he know they would break glass and put people in danger."

-- During the Kavanaugh protest, didn't the insurrectionists (that's the word we're using now, right?) get right up next to several Congress people? Seems to me that those people were in danger, they just got lucky the Kavanaugh insurrectionists didn't decide to use violence against Congress and had the full support of some people in Congress and the Capitol police force allowed them to get away with things, so there was no need for the Kavanaugh insurrectionists to use violence, since they got their political goal surrendered to them.

mezzrow said...

What did the President know, and when did he know it?

Is that your question?

Kai Akker said...

The man who won 17 of 18 bellwether counties and by an average of 15% was cheated out of the election by lawless fascists. Trump should resign because your mind-reading says he incited a demonstration. What does your mind-reading say about the unelected pair who are about to be inaugurated President and Vice? Which prizes should they be awarded to go with those new offices?

rhhardin said...

Trashing the capitol was the left's counter to Trump's plan.

Mark said...

Watch the video of them celebrating as they watched the March on the Capitol.

You are telling me they set up that command center and didn't think anything would happen during the March?

Also, I think it worth also considering Donald Jr's speech along with his father. It's not like he didn't know what his son planned to say and Jr's words seem much clearer incitement.

Or can we just send our sons to say things and deny it? That certainly doesn't jive with how Hunter Biden has been treated.

rhhardin said...

I'd guess that women mostly can't do math. In particular, odds.

tim maguire said...

That might be evidence of a plan, or it might just be normal run of the mill bravado that you see at protests all the time. You’d have to know if there was a plan before you could cite it as evidence of the plan. It’s too vague, general, and normal to do it the other way around.

I've seen nothing that indicates planning to engage in illegal activity. There has been nothing at all produced showing more than a few sporadic acts of opportunism, people caught up in the moment. For all the incendiary rhetoric by Democratic leaders and their lapdogs in the media, not much happen Wednesday. Not by the standards of 2020.

I withheld judgment and minimized my exposure for 48 hours to see what claims had staying power and it’s clear this is 90% spin by the left to take advantage of an opportunity.

rhhardin said...

Firefox exec says more than just deplatforming is needed. It seems like the left has a rather active followup, as if it were their doing in the first place. Better odds.

Mike Sylwester said...

Whenever I myself organize an attack on the US Capitol building, I always send my operational orders on Instagram.

(I would do so on MySpace, but I have learned that my young followers no longer have MySpace accounts.)

rhhardin said...

No more shopping online for Trump supporters.

Ann Althouse said...

"Althouse wrote: and I would have to say that he should resign.
Based on an unconfirmed rumor printed by Buzzfeed."

How about quoting the whole sentence you have quoted. That's a very devious half quote by you.

rhhardin said...

Women who can't do odds calculations are the audience for all this. The 19th amendment problem.

Ann Althouse said...

"Is that your question?"

Yes, and that almost made the cut as the title of this post.

Shouting Thomas said...

No, I’m not going to concede to the left the right to maintain it’s own street armies, Antifa and BLM, and to deploy those armies at will in rioting, looting, arson and cop murder, while my side unilaterally disarms.

rhhardin said...

The ultimate plan is discrediting Trump and anybody who thinks like him, roughly half of America.

Meade said...

“Or can we just send our sons to say things and deny it? That certainly doesn't jive with how Hunter Biden has been treated.”

Actually, all that jive certainly does jibe with how Hunter Biden has been treated.

Mark said...

Meade, Ann has spilled a ton of ink on Hunter and the charges.

Why not a single post about what Don Jr said here?

Not the same.

Humperdink said...

AA: "But if he was informed of a plan .. "

Throughout Trump presidency, the media/Commie-pinko dems would gin up a Trump hoax story to impeach him. Pick one, they are legion. They would preface each story with "if true".

AA, you fell into the same trap.

Kai Akker said...

"The world is in shock at the events of the past week in Washington, D.C.," intoned the NPR news reader with her womanly self-righteousness cranked up to max.

Click. That's when Don Byas started to swing in the CD. The world may be in shock at the events that are coming in Washington, D.C. when a crooked election gets the top reward on Earth. The city on the hill, the beacon of freedom and democracy, in the hands of the plunderers. And also Joe Biden -- now that is worthy of registering shock.

rhhardin said...

And what is the logic chain from "knew of a plan" to "must resign."

What's "knew" in any case? "Heard?" "Somebody said?" How often does that happen?

Many people who have know of traffic accident fatalities drive anyway.

Flimsy reasoning all the way through.

Sort of a heckler's veto that's easy to impose, but it's important to discredit Trump.

He said the grab them by the pussy thing, after all.

Shouting Thomas said...

I lived through the last iteration of gang control of NYC.

It’s back, courtesy of the DNC’s armed paramilitary forces.

I predict a future similar to that of South Africa, in which the government looks the other way or condones the expropriation and murder of propertied whites.

You’re still at that stage of thinking that some sort of sane response to the DNC’s use of armed force is possible. You’re delusional, prof.

Tank said...

Trump specifically called for peaceful, patriotic protest.

Howard said...

It's unknowable if Trump knew of any plan, but it doesn't matter. He has dog whistling about violence and using the second amendment for quite a while. "Stand down stand by tough guys really like me, we have all the guns," etc. If you can't see that Trump has been inciting his loyal band of INCELs from the island of misfits toys for years, then you have no idea how the world works.

That said, who cares. Trump needs to be ignored, not deplatformed, not impeached, not encouraged to resign, not removed by the 25th amendment. The msm, the Dems and their groupies can't help themselves from the enchantment of Trump's spell over them. It's the play both ends against the middle con where you manipulate your enemy to advance your mission.

MayBee said...

I would like whoever killed Brian Sicknick to be found, tried, and put in prison for the murderer they are.

Mike Sylwester said...

Whenever I want to read about Uday "Hunter" Biden, I always turn first to Althouse. She has spilled a ton of ink writing articles about him.

Ann Althouse said...

"Why not a single post about what Don Jr said here?"

Please link to a transcript. I haven't seen one.

Shouting Thomas said...

Remind me, prof, did you make a similar call for virtually the entire leadership of the DNC to resign for egging on, organizing and paying for a year of riots, arson, looting and rioting in our cities?

MayBee said...

A lot of the social media reaction to this is to keep him from running in 2024.

Its kind of like what they impeached Trump for- trying to harm his likely competitor in the next presidential race.

(I don't want him to run in 2024, btw. But there are lots of people I don't want to run.)

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

"The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan."

-- Some Gym Teacher

Ann Althouse said...

I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical. It makes you look biased and in denial. Please try to maintain your own credibility.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, you’ve consistently opposed.

But you haven’t called on Democrats to give up their offices and power, have you?

MayBee said...

Ann Althouse said...
I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical. It makes you look biased and in denial. Please try to maintain your own credibility.


I totally agree with this, for Althouse and for me.
I'm very very interested that the way of the left for the past few years--- the huge protest turning violent--- is now become the thing we can't abide, with their Dem becoming POTUS in the next few days. Isn't that one of the messages here? Dear Conservatives and Trump people, don't you dare think you are going to get away with what we got away with.

Eleanor said...

I think Trump should resign, too, but not until he declassifies everything he can get his hands on and ships it out of the country, pardons Assange, Snowden, and any other political prisoners, moves all of his liquid assets residing in this country to another country, and gets himself and his family out of the country safely. I hear he's going to inspect the wall on the Mexican border this week, and the Mexican President is sympathetic. The let Mike Pence oversee the peaceful transition of power. That would be worth a whole case of popcorn.

Matt Sablan said...

"Remind me, prof, did you make a similar call for virtually the entire leadership of the DNC to resign for egging on, organizing and paying for a year of riots, arson, looting and rioting in our cities?"

-- I'd like to go on record again that I'd be more than willing to make that trade. Take Trump, but apply the "incitement" rules to everyone. The mass resignations/impeachments throughout all levels of government might be the best way to "vote the bums out."

Lewis Wetzel said...

"He has dog whistling about violence and using the second amendment for quite a while."
More dog whistling heard by people who do not think that they are the dog!
Do people realize who stupid they sound when they write about hearing "dog whistles" not meant for them to hear?

rhhardin said...

knowing (Cavell, The Claim of Reason) and ordinary language

Do I know (now) (am I, as it were knowing) that there is a green jar of pencils on the desk (though I am not now looking at it)? If I do know now, did I not know before I asked the question? I had not, before then, said that or thought it; but that is perhaps not relevant. If someone had asked me whether the jar was on the desk I could have said Yes without looking. So I did know. But what does it mean to say "I did know"? Of course no one will say that I did not know (that I wasn't knowing). On the other hand, no one would have said of me, seeing me sitting at my desk with the green jar out of my range of vision, "He knows there is a green jar of pencils on the desk", nor would anyone say of me now, "He (you) knew there was a green jar . . .", apart from some special reason which makes that description of my "knowledge" relevant to something I did or said or am doing or saying (e.g., I told someone that I never keep pencils on my desk; I knew that Mrs. Greenjar was coming to tea and that she takes it as a personal affront if there is a green jar visible in the room . . .). Perhaps one feels: "What difference does it make that no one would have said, without a special reason for saying it, that you knew the green jar was on the desk? You did know it; it's true to say that you knew it.

- The special reason, in Althouse's mind, is that Trump wants to trash the capitol, so she can say he knew it. When Trump wants the opposite, a peaceful show of support to influence by way of encouragement the investigation that's ongoing.

Kai Akker said...

I would like whoever killed Seth Rich to be found, named, indicted and put on trial.

Howard said...

He's the master of plausible deniability. Move on. Bashing Trump doesn't help because the lizard brain of every Trumper has been hacked to react as if they were being wounded and bleeding like Trump themselves. This causes a cascade of brain chemicals that triggers fear paranoia and loneliness. The cure is The Cause.

Mike Sylwester said...

Whenever I need an example of someone who communicates to the public by means of subtle "dog-whistles", I always think first of Donald Trump.

mockturtle said...

Yikes, rhhardin waxes Sartre-ian this morning. Yes, it really is an existential question.

Matt Sablan said...

"He's the master of plausible deniability."

-- I mean, it's true. It's not like he said things like protests should make people uncomfortable. Or that the riots shouldn't stop and should keep going. Or that protests don't need to peaceful or polite. Or that there should be uprisings against the government. Or that people should find members of the Cabinet in public and assault them.

He called for a peaceful protest, and we just know that was a dog whistle while all those other comments clearly were calls for mostly peaceful protests.

Shouting Thomas said...

Trump must hang in there to the end of his term to retain his ability to run for office again.

Althouse, don’t join in this unpersoning campaign.

You’re next. Scott Adams is richer and more famous and powerful than you and he’s sweating bullets.

D.D. Driver said...

Anyone who has been reading the Althouse comments since November who didn't know with a high degree of confidence that Wednesday's rally would be surrounded by violence was being willfully blind.

I mean lots of Althouse were waiting with excited anticipation. The violence was predictable. Everyone predicted it.

I'll repeat what I said yesterday: this was like hiring Hell Angels to work security. At what point does recklessness and indiffence to innocent life violate the oath of office?

Sebastian said...

"So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical."

No, you are not hypocritical. But as brave as you are (no snark), you are still insufficiently critical, in the sense that you underestimate the power of the actual putsch, the leftist legitimation of violence, and the propaganda use of outrage.

boatbuilder said...

Yes, because otherwise the Dems and Jane Mayer and Nancy Pelosi and the MSM might be jerking you around. And how could that be possible?

mockturtle said...

Eleanor @7:05, actually, that sounds rather a good idea.

Unknown said...

Smart move, cover for when they come to deplatform you.

Mike Sylwester said...

Bashing Trump doesn't help because the lizard brain of every Trumper has been hacked to react as if they were being wounded and bleeding like Trump themselves. This causes a cascade of brain chemicals that triggers fear paranoia and loneliness. The cure is The Cause.

Howard, are you drunk already this early on a Sunday morning?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Pretty sure Trump sent out messages on his personal, double-secret internet coordinating everything.

PB said...

5 years of vicious lies and violence directed at Trump and his supporters, a congress unwilling to investigate credible concerns over the election, years of democrats inviting and encouraging bio!ence and destruction in our cities. I'm amazed at the restraint of Republicans. Do you think the damage to the Capitol would have been this mild if the situation were reversed and Antifa/BLM had assaulted the Capitol? If the situation were reversed do you not think the MSM would still be insisting that Trump resign?

Charlie Currie said...

If Trump knew, then the Secret Service knew, if the SS knew, then the FBI knew, if the FBI knew, then the Capitol Police knew...and there's videos of them letting people on to the Capital grounds, not blocking them.

So, they were all in on it?

Does Trump have a direct line to the Proud Boys? Does Nancy Pelosi to ANTIFA/BLM?

Oh, there was a plan, but it had no connection to Trump or his supporters. The plan is still playing out and the professor is playing right into it.

Meade said...

“I mean lots of Althouse were waiting with excited anticipation. The violence was predictable. Everyone predicted it” [needs citation]

Matt Sablan said...

"Anyone who has been reading the Althouse comments since November who didn't know with a high degree of confidence that Wednesday's rally would be surrounded by violence was being willfully blind."

-- I expected it since, for years, the left has normalized political violence. I, and others on the right, have been warning that eventually, if the left kept normalizing political violence, letting things like Chaz happen, promoting arson and attacks against police stations, the White House, and courthouses, that eventually, someone on the right was going to ask: "Hey, why aren't WE doing these things that are acceptable now?"

And then it happened, and the left is pretending it is the first time the Capitol has ever been breached and political violence has ever occurred in America.

I agree: The riot in the Capitol was something that shouldn't have happened. I'm not going to pretend it was a singular, unusual event that has no precedent in American history.

David Begley said...

This “theory” will be central in the upcoming impeachment House impeachment hearing. That is if there is a hearing.

Fritz said...

If ifs and ands were pots and pans...

Mikey NTH said...

If there was a plan to storm the capitol:

(A) Trump knew about it - why would he say anything inciting it? It would be unnecessary because his "go" command could be a phrase as innocuous as "Climb Mt. Niitaka" and anything actually inciteful would link him to the plot.

(B) Trump did not know about it - then there is no connection and all you are left with is people speculating and poring over his words like cryptographers seeking to break a code. A code that isn't there.

rhhardin said...

I've forgotten what they got rid of the old Firefox CEO for - he said something sensible that wasn't PC - but the new one wants more than just deplatforming for Trump people.

Something suspicious about the speed, like the Confederate statue hysteria all at once all over.

Ray - SoCal said...

There is a double standard.

There have been multiple entries into congress:

Black panthers
Kavanaugh’s hearing
Puerto Rican nationhood supporters

And if Trump had planned it would have gone a lot smoother and been bigger.

And how is just knowing if something a crime. I believe Bush had been warned of the potential of 9-11, should he have resigned? Obama was warned of the potential of revenge in the anniversary of 9-11 and Bhengazi happened? How was Trump to know the Incompetence, perhaps collaboration of the Capital Police, and instigators in the crowd?

The calls for insurrection, resistance, and protests by the Democrats have exceeded what Trump did.

And I’m amazed for the 300 arrested for rioting at Trumps inauguration, the left supported with lodging, lawyers, etc till the charges were dropped 18 months later. Contrast that with the oh ack of support General Flynn got from the GOP.

This topic is just hot air. What is more interesting and frightening is the deplatforming of Trump. Even his email providers. Parlor being kicked off Google and Apple app stores. And amazon web hosting kicked them off. Why all this to shut down Trumps ability to communicate? First they came for Alex Jones, but I did not protest because he is a ...

Another huge story, is what Sec State Pompeo did to China. He just destroyed the one China policy within the executive branch. Saturday release. He just handed Biden a nasty booby trap. My guess is Trump has a bunch of similar huge actions lined up until the inauguration building to some climax.

iowan2 said...

Sorry Ann, Now you are inciting violence, by giving credence to wild unfounded speculation, any violence will rest with you. Your careful use of qualifying language, is proof of your incitement.
See how easy that is?

Your conclusion, couched as it is in your qualifying language, only works if you ignore years of history.

We know the Democrat Party hired thugs to incited violence. Robert Kreamer is on video explaining how he hired thugs to disrupt events. Robert Kreamer visited the White House over 300 times and met with Obama 47 times.
Republicans have been holding massive rallies since at least the emergence of the TeaParty
and they are NOT just "mostly peaceful" they are the epitome of decorum and respect.

I suspect Obama is the single person that called for this breach of the Capitol. Send a SWAT team to his DC house and dump all of his communication, there you will find the truth.

Facts back up my conclusion, you have no facts. Just wish casting.

Jersey Fled said...

Maybe I missed something.

If the Proud Boys already had a plan, how was Trump inciting anything?

David Begley said...

Meade:

I actually wrote here that I wouldn’t be surprised if there were MAGA riots on 1-6.

I don’t know how to search the blog so maybe you can find it.

With a crowd of any size, there is always a chance for violence. That was an easy prediction.

Kai Akker said...

--- The riot in the Capitol was something that shouldn't have happened

Disagree, Matt. It was so overdue and inadequate to the crimes that have been committed. Remember what the actual framework of what's happening consists of. The coup failed twice, or was it three times -- so they fixed the election. And a majority or near-majority of Americans know it.

Lewis Wetzel said...

I think the reason Howard & some other lefties use the term "dog whistle" is because they want you to think they have effectively intercepted a secret message meant for others.
In fact, they have fancifully interpreted the plain words of a person they do not like to suit their prejudices.

jaydub said...

It has only been this week when I became sufficiently woke to understand that citizens entering a federal building in Washington (at least partially assisted by capitol police) is in fact a rioting mob which threatens democracy while other citizens assaulting police and burning a federal courthouse in Portland is just a protest demonstration to foster racial equality. Regardless, my newly woke self is humbled by these marchers' commitment to whatever it is to which they are committed, and of course I only mean the the "good" protest marchers who are burning buildings and killing police for a good cause and not those vile marchers who are part of a mob of rioters who are occupying a building and being killed by police for a bad cause.

BTW, should the videos of the capital police opening the doors for many of the protestors and asking them to be respectful be a mitigating factor in determining whether Trump should be hanged or just summarily shot for the "capitol storming"? Also, does anyone else recognize the real purpose behind the pearl clutching as well as the talk of impeachment? Hint: it has nothing to do with whether he's guilty of anything, just as the prior impeachment had nothing to do with any supposed wrong doing in Ukraine. Gotta put a stake through the orange man's heart to ensure he doesn't rise again.

Mike Sylwester said...

Perhaps President Trump knew that his Twitter account eventually would be canceled.

That might explain why he began several days ago to communicate with the Proud Boys by means of Instagram.

The plot thickens.

Ray - SoCal said...

Brendan Eich - he donated to the anti Gay marriage proposition.

Another interesting story - what the CEO of Firefox is proposing. I need to dump Firefox. Brave, guess what Eich did after being forced out of Mozilla, creator of Firefox created...

https://www.newswars.com/mozilla-says-deplatforming-trump-not-enough-wants-to-shield-internet-from-bad-actors-as-users-uninstall-firefox-in-disgust/

Blogger rhhardin said...
>I've forgotten what they got rid of the old Firefox CEO for

Quayle said...

I don’t think we need the evidence of knowledge of a plan to enter and trash the capital. I believe planning and holding a rally on that day in that location, or agreeing to speak at rally that was planned by others, was not “American”, showed extremely bad judgment and potentially sufficiently demonstrated a defect of character portending unfitness for high office.

Riots in Portland or different riots in DC by the other party don’t make it right. (We’ve all known since kindergarten that two wrongs don’t make a right.)

If we believe in standards and values, we must live by them no matter what anyone else does. “Peaceful transfer of power” means to me that you don’t hold rallies right in the face of the process bringing about that peaceful transfer.

Shouting Thomas said...

I hope this blog survives the terror.

Not assured.

The comments section might have to go, or at least the heretics might need to be expelled.

Matt Sablan said...

"“Peaceful transfer of power” means to me that you don’t hold rallies right in the face of the process bringing about that peaceful transfer."

-- That's ridiculous. There have been protests for decades against the incoming president of both parties. The First Amendment guarantees the right to peaceful protests.

The rioters were wrong; the vast majority of protesters who didn't riot were well within their rights.

exhelodrvr1 said...

If I renounce Trump, will I get a bigger stimulus check?

Rick said...

Are we going to apply this principle to everyone? So Dem politicians who supported BLM protests were inciting violence because they knew there were plans to include riots and violence?

This seems right but of course every left winger and Dem in the country denied this is appropriate until last week. Even liberals deny this generally and I don't recall you asserting their responsibility either.

Are we going to claim whataboutism so we can continue protecting the left even as we "discover" this new theory of responsibility?

Mikey NTH said...

"Riots in Portland or different riots in DC by the other party don’t make it right. (We’ve all known since kindergarten that two wrongs don’t make a right.)"


They don't, but comparing the different standards the participants are held to as well as various political figures is enlightening.

Ray - SoCal said...

Why is this an important topic?

Is it because it is part of a potential impeachment?

It would be interesting for a poll to see the percentage of readers who believe Trump will be impeached, possibly after he leaves office. I think he will be.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Also, media who withheld positive Trump stories, or exaggerated negative Trump stories are guilty of incitement.

Lucille Ballers said...

They had ropes to scale the walls, they had zip ties, they had pipe bombs and molotov cocktails. They had t-shirts with the words "Civil War 1/06/21".
The violence was planned.

Trump responds "We love you and you're very special"

DarigoldVanilla said...

I wish it were surprising that the true believers will defend trump with their dying breath, even if the destruction and murders he caused were premeditated. One of the only accurate thing that Trump has ever said, is that he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and his cult would stick with him.

alan markus said...

exhelodrvr1 said...
Pretty sure Trump sent out messages on his personal, double-secret internet coordinating everything


Well, years ago here in Wisconsin we had Garage Mahal & Ingerturd relentlessly telling us any day now Governor Scott Walker's "secret router" was going to be found and that would be the final nail in his political coffin.

Rick said...

Ann Althouse said...
I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical.


The issue in question is assigning responsibility for incitement. Opposing violence does not prove you've applied this principle of responsibility to anyone other than Trump.

Mike Sylwester said...

If Trump now begins a new season of The Apprentice, the first challenge he assigns to the contestants should be to use Instagram to organize The Proud Boys into an invasion of the US Capitol building.

The challenge can be done successfully.

Rusty said...

Inciting a riot after the fact?
What if.
I can say anything I want. That's on me. What you do with that information, that's on you.
Until facts prove otherwise it was just a speech. Sorry. Because there IS free speech you're going to have to really stretch for," Trump made me do it.".

boatbuilder said...

Has it occurred to anyone that a massive rally to show political support for Trump in challenging the election counting was precisely what was necessary for Trump and his supporters to maintain political credibility and to encourage the Republican lawmakers to develop some spine?

I am neither a violent person nor a joiner of rallies. I am also married to a Dem. I nonetheless considered upending my household and attending the rally--not because of anything Trump said, but because I felt it was important to stand up and be counted.

The idiotic (and strangely leaderless) incursion into the Capitol building undermined all of that.

The idea that Trump was using some sort of "dog whistle" or had some sort of "plan" to do this foolishness is absurd.

Trump is many things, but when he "plans" something he usually gets it done. If the "plan" was to take over the country, was the plan: a) have guys with horns and animal skins invade chamber; b) assume power? Where are all the millions of armed followers around the country taking their cue and seizing control?

There is some industrial level bullshit going on.

Michael K said...

There was a plan but Trump wasn't part of it. The plan is continuing with Amazon kicking Parler off its server farm cloud. Yes, it is a plan.

mezzrow said...

I agree with Bret Weinstein about what the danger is here. Listen while you can.

https://youtu.be/lGlrjmIalJY?t=3653

DEEBEE said...

I obviously missed your extremely neutral and equally perspicacious speculation when On Kamala’s crowdfunding, Jose’s minions bail bondsmen, hunter’s laptop and on and on. Is it time to practice Seppuku?

iowan2 said...

To be clear my (weak attempt) take down of Althouse was just to offer an example of using the same standards her post utilize this morning.

The part about Democrat hiring thugs to breach the Capital? That's not hyperbole. That is based on hard facts.

Matt Sablan said...

"The violence was planned."

-- It usually is. But, for the past several years, planned political violence has been accepted and encouraged by most left-leaning politicians -- you can go back decades to the Weather Underground and how Bill Ayers is accepted in polite society today to see this is actually been an acceptance of political violence longer than my life time when the right people were being politically violent. You can understand some of the MAGA rioters confusion when their political violence was considered not acceptable by the left.

They knew there'd be pushback from people on the right, hence why we're called RINOs or whatever the current insult du jour is. They expected the right to condemn the violence. They were surprised that the left suddenly agreed with the right that violent riots are bad.

dbp said...

The FBI pursued a Russian collusion hoax for three years. I'm finding it pretty easy to believe they could have seen something in social media and done nothing about it for three hours.

DarigoldVanilla said...

The part about Democrat hiring thugs to breach the Capital? That's not hyperbole. That is based on hard facts.

THIS is the problem with Trumpian philosophy in a nutshell ALWAYS spectacularly wrong but NEVER in doubt.

gspencer said...

"If there was a plan, when did it develop and who knew about it?"

The DNC and its client thugs.

Mike Sylwester said...

Everyone predicted that Wednesday's rally would be surrounded by violence.

I myself did not predict anything about what would happen. On the contrary, I would have predicted that violence would not happen.

Now I will predict that Google soon will compel Althouse to delete all comments that disrespect "President" Biden and "Vice President" Harris or that say massive fraud affected the 2020 election.

If she refuses to do so, then her Google will eliminate her blog.

wendybar said...

Funny how it is always the crazy leftists here who hear those dog whistles...maybe that is telling YOU something.

Michael K said...

Something suspicious about the speed, like the Confederate statue hysteria all at once all over.

Part of the plan. The memo goes out and the entire left, including a few trolls here, react like trained seals.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

You actually think you'll be told the truth?

narciso said...


Pay attention


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/01/the_night_of_the_tech_long_knives.html

tim maguire said...

Quayle said...I don’t think we need the evidence of knowledge of a plan to enter and trash the capital. I believe planning and holding a rally on that day in that location, or agreeing to speak at rally that was planned by others, was not “American”, showed extremely bad judgment and potentially sufficiently demonstrated a defect of character portending unfitness for high office.

Holding or even just attending a rally is evidence of unfitness for office? Holy crap! Who’d be left if we applied that fairly and evenly!?

Wince said...

Let's all try to sort-out the competing and complimentary "there was a plan" conspiracy theories, shall we?

A.) A right-wing "there was a plan" conspiracy theory: Infiltrate special operatives in the Capitol to snatch Nancy Pelosi's laptop succeeded and that's why she's so rabid about the impeachment, 25th A and nuclear codes?

B.) Buzzfeed's left-wing "there was a plan" conspiracy theory: Entails "one Black veteran of the US Capitol Police" having saw it on Instagram at 9:00am and, as a Capitol Police veteran, he did nothing about it.

C.) The Reichstag Fire "there was a plan" conspiracy theory: anti-Trump authorities knew and wanted it to happen (implicated by (B), above, and supported by the two stories below).

a.) DC Mayor Told Federal Law Enforcement To Stand Down Day Before Violent US Capitol Riot (Mayor Bowser's Jan 5th letter to acting AG, Sec Def and Sec Army linked).

b.) Bowser reiterates call for DC statehood after Capitol riots

More?

DarigoldVanilla said...

Trained seals - says the cult member, as he blindly defends his messiah, through the bitter end.

Matt Sablan said...

Bowser probably told law enforcement to stand down because that's her standard go-to move, and she expected the normal level of Trump protest violence, which is to say, minimal to none. She probably was unaware that this one would actually get violent (whether you blame it on Antifa infiltrators, of which we know there was at least one who is on video encouraging people to burn it down and threatening Capitol police, or more logically, just assume a large group of angry people got violent because that's generally what large groups of angry people do in America now that they've had years to decades of tacit approval from left wing politicians that political violence is fine, and may even, like Bill Ayers, lead you to improving your station in life.)

stlcdr said...

Rick said...
Ann Althouse said...
I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical.


But isn’t that what we are seeing here? The left, the media, Democrats are lumping every right wing person, and Trump supporter, and every person who does not condemn the riots (because there was nothing else but riots going on) together: they should be banned from participating in society, and all are culpable of the murder of the police officer.

The right (whatever that is - more accurately, those who disagree with or even question the left) are being shut down and ostracized from modern society. It is unsurprising that reasonable people start adopting the presented dogma.

narciso said...

Shooting a 4 term airforce veteran in the face, is that violence

donald said...

If you believe any of the bullshit you’ve been reading and hearing for the last four years from these assholes who immediately started committing crimes against this president and its citizens then you need to resign from life toots.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Of course somebody told him... Morgan Fairchild, yeah... that's the ticket! While she was peeing on the bed!

Fernandinande said...

for one Black veteran of the US Capitol Police

Oh noes! I hope He wasn't confronted with any racist knots or rocks which symbolize the daily injustices that Capitol Police of Color face in a predominantly white Capital especially in the face of a President Elect who called the Capitol Police racists.

D.D. Driver said...

“I mean lots of Althouse were waiting with excited anticipation. The violence was predictable. Everyone predicted it” [needs citation]

Here's a good example of a thread if you are interested. There are plenty more like it.

donald said...

“If we believe in standards and values, we must live by them no matter what anyone else does. “Peaceful transfer of power” means to me that you don’t hold rallies right in the face of the process bringing about that peaceful transfer”.

Hopefully they’ll kill you last. Is that what you’re going for? Ha!

narciso said...

How many times have you seen what they did to walker to cyndi archer the dissobedience they encouraged a 100 different ways and not put 2 and 2 together.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

7:53 - narciso link worth a read

and this

Conservative #WalkAway Facebook page removed along with hundreds of thousands of videos and followers

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Fuck these “Trump knew” conspiracy theories. Fifty fucking cities burned in a coordinated effort of leftist violence for weeks on end with all prominent Democrats literally cheering them on. Unless and until Pelosi Biden Schumer Harris et al are in jail for all the death and destruction they caused I don’t want to hear a goddamned word about the DC riot. Every indication is that blac bloc criminals did both the summer attacks and the Wednesday breach, same perps, same people are “benefitting” from the violence.

Cmon Althouse: qui bono?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Michelle Obama is behind the bannings

NBC News
@NBCNews
· Jan 7
JUST IN: Former first lady Michelle Obama calls on tech companies to permanently ban President Trump from their platforms and put policies in place “to prevent their technology from being used by the nation’s leaders to fuel insurrection.”

Quayle said...

“ They don't, but comparing the different standards the participants are held to as well as various political figures is enlightening.”

OK. So I agree. That takes about 5 minutes to do.

Then what?

If you expect your political opponents to admit you’re right, apologize, repent, and amend their ways, you’ll wait for a long time. There is no satisfaction or progress speaking in a full-on war of words.

Ray - SoCal said...

I’m too astonished at the speed of what is being done to Trump,

How the capital incursion is being used as an excuse to destroy Trump and his legacy. To totally discredit him, and unperson him. To make him a social pariah and an outcast. To excommunicate him from society. As well as deplatform and remove any method of mass communication from him.

I’m amazed at how quickly the conversation has moved from voter fraud to Trump caused violence, a coup, and an insurrection.

Owen said...

Boatbuilder @7:40: “...industrial level bullshit...” Word. Although I would add “hand-crafted, triple-distilled, GMO-free, ethically harvested industrial level bullshit.”

pacwest said...

The last two Dem presidential candidates have been on the take. They need to discredit the very idea of Trump. It's why they will dog his every step for the next few years. He is a symbol and he needs to be made a pariah. The very idea that there is something better than what they are doing is a grave threat to them and it needs to be discredited.

I'm going to go with what #44 said. If they bring a knife we bring a gun. Not that I am trying to incite or anything.

Wince said...

Ann Althouse said...
I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical. It makes you look biased and in denial. Please try to maintain your own credibility.
1/10/21, 7:02 AM

Shouting Thomas said...
So, you’ve consistently opposed.

But you haven’t called on Democrats to give up their offices and power, have you?
1/10/21, 7:04 AM



Have to admit, ST's question came to my mind too. Not simply in some "tit-for-tat" between ST and Althouse.

Is the necessity felt by Althouse to urgently endorse resignations, seemingly of just one-side of the political leadership, a by-product of the haunting fear of de-platforming?

Just as the underlying street violence condoned by the left leadership had the effect of intimidating anyone official who might pursue election fraud allegations?

In that sense, has a violent-left, Big Tech intimidation strategy subconsciously succeeded?

tim in vermont said...

All the good Germans went along with the Nazis after the Reichstag Fire and it worked out great for them! So sure, find whatever pretext you can to go along Ann.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Althouse, do you have an explanation for how Trump would benefit by his supporters breaking into the capitol building? Any at all?

Alternatively, how do the Democrats benefit by either executing themselves, or magnifying someone else's execution of, breaking into the capitol building? Do they now have an excuse [pitiful and paper thin, but the people in our country are painfully stupid] to take away the ability of any of their opponents to talk to each other and to kneecap their opponents' leaders?

What makes the most sense to your great big legal mind?

elkh1 said...

Last year Hong Kong protesters stormed the Legislative Council and became rioters. From video footage, a person cracked open the door and left the scene. The protesters ran in. Things occurred fast, some protesters were pushed in and could not get out. No police shootings, no one died.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

If he knew of a plan, then indeed he should resign.

If he knew of a plan, can anyone imagine him saying anything other than You're going to hurt us more than you can possibly imagine if you do this; for the love of God be peaceful!

And now they have us where they want us, which is in a place where any speaking out of any kind -- including peaceful protest -- will be twisted into "an assault on our democracy!"

There are four lights! 2+2=5!

steve uhr said...

At the rally, Donny Jr said that the democrats riot and loot and burn buildings and it is time to start “fighting like the democrats do ... and “fight their way.”. If that’s not incitement what is? When the violence started, he tweeted to his people that they shouldn’t “act like the other side.”

Now that Parler is going away, those inciting violence will always find a welcoming home at althouseblog. Me, I’m checking out permanently. Bye all.

Robert Cook said...

"Then Nancy and the rest of the Democrats who incited left wing violence with their riots should step down also. Fair is fair."

Have they? When and how?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

For someone who won’t even concede Antifa exists to engage in this conspiracy theory is interesting. Did Althouse ever ask IF AND WHEN old Biden and Obama knew about the plan to entrap Trump in 2016? I don’t recall this blog even entertaining the POSSIBILITY that Obama knew and directed the very deep state plan to frame Trump and ruin his campaign and presidency. That was such a devious and evil use of power that we are still feeling the effects of it. It poisoned relations between Trump and the Republican establishment to the extent Ryan did nothing as Speaker to help Trump and purposely lost the house. In the grand scheme of things even if “Trump knew” it was small potatoes compared to Crossfire Hurricane. But the absurdity of Democrats rerunning the “Bush knew” playbook so soon us that their so obvious in their double standardization.

Ray - SoCal said...

Michael K

Thanks for your insightful comments and putting up with the Left Sock Puppets that are trying to derail the conversation with concern trolling and other tactics.

I agree with your comment there was a plan. My theory was there were a couple of instigators that inflamed the situation. Some Antifa was there. Some Q Types. Probably done Alinsky Left trained instigators / agitators. And it was a trap / set up. And the results have been used as a caus belli against Trump. A reichstag fire, gulf of Tonkin. Battleship Maine type excuse.

I would like to know who the guy with the megaphone was that got the people to over turn the barrier. He riled up the crowd. That was not by accident. It took training / planning to get those results.

roesch/voltaire said...

How do you define plan? Do the many threats from QANon followers posted before the insurrection and widely shared before hand count?( By the way I think Q is a Russian operation set up to destabilize our democracy.) Does the involvement of Trump dark money used to plan and set this up count as a plan? And why did Trump retreat to the Wh to watch the riots on tv and do nothing for three hours to stop the riot because he enjoyed what he was watching?

mockturtle said...

Pants observes: And now they have us where they want us.

Exactly as they planned. It cannot be otherwise.

Matt Sablan said...

"And why did Trump retreat to the Wh to watch the riots on tv and do nothing for three hours to stop the riot because he enjoyed what he was watching?"

-- Bowser, if I recall, had taken the resources Trump gave her... and put them on essentially traffic duty. What more could Trump do when LAST time he tried to help stop a violent insurrection in DC that was attacking the White House and burning churches, he was called an authoritarian fascist who was stopping a peaceful protest? Trump learned from the last time he tried to help Bowser, and Bowser, as is her nature, completely screwed up. The chain of events is perfectly understandable given past precedent.

Robert Cook said...

"Remind me, prof, did you make a similar call for virtually the entire leadership of the DNC to resign for egging on, organizing and paying for a year of riots, arson, looting and rioting in our cities?"

Did they? When and how?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

There is more evidence that Joe Biden (and Barack Obama) planned and/or participated in an attempt to take out the current administration via the fake Russian collusion hoax.

As we prepare to install Biden as President, I’m imagining Althouse is furiously preparing posts demanding an investigation into any role Biden might have played in that planned operation. By the way, what’s the penalty for treason?

Butkus51 said...

They're not going to stop, they're not going to stop, they're not going to stop, this is a movement I'm telling you. They're not going to stop. And everyone beware cuz they're not going to stop. They're not going to stop before election day in November and they're not going to stop after election day. And everyone should take note of that on both levels. They're not going to let up, and they should not and we should not. Giggle giggle

Ok Fair enough I added the giggle giggle part.

That was said on national TV during riots.

By President-Elect Harris

Btw, notice how quickly we get the names of certain police ASAP, but in the most camera infested city this side of the Atlantic..nothing. No vids or pics of the fire extinguisher in the most camera infested city.

You should see the amendment that the Illinois legislature is preparing regarding police. A present to Antifa. And every jurisdiction MUST comply

Trump, the first dictator ever censored.

I think people are underestimating this zeitgeist.



Fernandinande said...

Chicolini, isn't it true you sold Freedonia's secret war code and plans?

Chicolini: Sure! I sold a code and two pairs o' plans!

daskol said...

Maybe with this post Althouse blog is a little harder to cancel, for now.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Ok lefties:

How.Does.Trump.Benefit.From.A."Plan."

I'm all ears. Convince me. It's a simple question in words of almost one syllable.

Levi Starks said...

Althouse pushe baseless conspiracy theory.
Or
Without evidence...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I know that the media thinks that Trump is some sort of all powerful Hitler...but really???

Trump can now read minds. Not only minds----> but the minds of tens of thousands of people and know exactly what they were all planning.

Plus...the ability to predict the future.

Geeze no wonder they were/are so gung ho to get rid of him. Talk about POWERFUL!!

dreams said...

Uh oh, it seems Althouse has succumbed to the liberal mob and is now in CYA mode.

Butkus51 said...

Robert Cook. Good enough for ya? Didnt even see your DA post til after.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Examples of leftists in power who incite violence and hate with their words:

“Hours after Nancy Pelosi labeled Republicans as ‘domestic enemies,’ leftist mobs harassed, intimidated, and tried to incite violence against Republicans in the streets,” McCarthy wrote in a tweet. “Her reckless comments have consequences.”

“She should immediately condemn these assaults against democracy,” he added.

Earlier this week, Pelosi made reference to Trump supporters and Republicans as “enemies of the state.”


Cook -

Turn up the volume on the link and on your computer and watch/listen to the compilation of media elites and top democrats and leftwing celebrities shooting Trump int he head etc.. and asking people to take to the streets and harass and riot and break things... in anger... about Trump.

Oh - and the left did. The then the hack press ignored it all. Then, Robert Cook, Go to Andy Ngo's twitter page and keep scrolling back in time thru last summer, for all the rioting by leftists the media ignored.

Viral Video Shows Leading Democrats Inciting ‘Uprisings,’ ‘Unrest,’ Harassment

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Another question, especially for military history specialists (I wish buwaya were around): how many coups have succeeded because they claimed to be preventing the real bad guy from taking advantage?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

When and how:

Here you go, Robert Cook.
turn up+ the volume

Nancy Pelosi should have been frog marched out of the capitol a long time ago.,She's a seditious riot fomenting criminal.

Browndog said...

Odd, isn't it?

In the aftermath of the so called right wing violent mob, nearly everyone of consequence seems to be cowering in fear and begging mercy from the left-wing mob.

steve uhr said...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2E-nP_RSZgM

Trump Jr.

stonethrower said...

Of all the hands involved in this mess, Trump's may be the most clean. Looking for ways to interpret Trump's words in the worst possible way is just a "polite" way to continue the onslaught against him, this time under the guise of thoughtful seriousness.

narciso said...

Well this is a color revolution, a subset of hybrid warfare weve seen in serbia ukraine georgia involving direct action and propaganda.

Mary Beth said...

Based on an unconfirmed rumor printed by Buzzfeed.

Hey, now, they were the first to publish the Steele Dossier. Unconfirmed rumors is what they do best.

The Crack Emcee said...

It's all narrative. Give me a break.

I'm cryin' that deplorable was disappointed.

BTW, you guys, here's Andrew Breitbart reminding you A) who the enemy is, and B) the one thing conservatives do NOT do - to their extreme detriment - is SUPPORT THEIR ARTISTS.

Here's where you can change that.

And here's Bill Clinton, back in the '90s, telling Bill Gates and others what his cult leader said The Democrat Party must do to us today.

Lurker21 said...

"The plan" of some groups was most likely to go to the Capitol, like the March on the Pentagon back in the Sixties. The assumption would have been that the Capitol would be well protected. More extreme groups did call for violent confrontation, but did anybody really expect that protestors could actually get past the Capital Police? If you want to charge Trump with incitement, you have to charge Kamala Harris and Maxine Waters the other politicians and commentators who called for more protests, when people were already rioting, looting and burning.

I don't think Trump is closely monitoring the communications of the Proud Boys and other extremist groups every night. He seemed a little thrown off balance when Biden mentioned the group in the debates, like he wasn't sure who they were. Clearly somebody should have been monitoring their communications. Isn't Big Brother already listening in? I also wonder: aren't the Capitol Police Pelosi's bailiwick, or something she shares with McConnell? Or was Muriel Bowser in charge of overall security? In any event there was a failure to fortify the Capitol somewhere in the chain of command. You can certainly give Trump some of the blame, but hardly all of it.

Elsewhere on the world wide internet, Deroy Murdock and Michael Malarkey have calculated the dimensions of possible voter fraud in the last election, based on statistics and affidavits. It's a little late. Somebody should have done it well before all this mess (maybe somebody did, for all I know). Their calculations won't make the television news, and mentioning them may get you banned from social media. If their numbers ever do see the light, they will probably be dismissed as "malarkey" by you-know-who.

I Callahan said...

would like whoever killed Brian Sicknick to be found, tried, and put in prison for the murderer they are.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131

From the link:

According to sources familiar with the matter, authorities believe Sicknick's death was driven by a medical condition. They're also investigating reports that he was attacked with a fire extinguisher or another item at the Capitol, sources said. So far, reports of an attack haven't been confirmed and authorities are hoping to locate video or other imagery from the scene.

Question: what makes you sure he was murdered? That’s right - the media. Again.

Lars Porsena said...

Kamal Harris on the 'mostly peaceful protests' of the last six months via Colbert interview

“They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop,” “This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware because they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop before Election Day and they’re not going to stop after Election Day. And everyone should take note of that. They’re not gonna let up and they should not.”

Freder Frederson said...

I suspect Obama is the single person that called for this breach of the Capitol. Send a SWAT team to his DC house and dump all of his communication, there you will find the truth.

And you are accusing Ann of giving "credence to wild unfounded speculation"

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black (and go ahead, jump on the nonsensical and untrue racial connotation of the phrase). You must have never cooked over an open fire.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Viral Video Shows Leading Democrats Promoting ‘Uprisings,’ ‘Unrest,’ Harassment

If the rules apply equally - why is Nancy still at her post? she should be forcibly removed or resign in disgrace.

wild chicken said...

The incitement was the tweet Trump sent when the mob was at the capitol.

Robert Wright goes through the timeline on his bloggingheads show 1/8 and even Kaus had to admit it looked bad.

Maybe they wouldn't have killed Pence but roughing him up, intimidating him would be outrageous too.

Fernandinande said...

Pelosi says some words:

"It has been an epiphany for the world to see that there are people in our country led by this president, for the moment, who have chosen their whiteness over democracy."

I'd bet that almost nobody saw that particular dog-whistle, er, epiphany.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

As usual the conspiracy theorists ignore EXPLICIT CALLS FOR PEACEFUL PROTEST in favor of their ever useful dog whistle bullshit. Althouse tacitly endorses leftist violence by her selective criticism. She never called for lying “fine people” Joe or “the riots hee hee won’t stop!” Harris to step down or be shunned.

daskol said...

Time to dust off WWII era America's favorite parlor game: Who Goes Nazi?

Michael K said...

Michael Yon has published his report on Wednesday.



The lack of barriers, police, and National Guard. Everyone should have been on the line in full kit that day.


Approaching the Capitol Building was like landing at Atlanta airport. Total clear runway. Flashing lights. Beacons. People were guiding Trump supporters in.


From my experience, I recognized some were likely APs. Agent Provocateurs.


APs hijack portions of crowds do to their bidding. Mind hacking. Instead of inserting the program via USB stick, the AP uses megaphone, symbols, and other arts and methods of persuasion.


Those who controls the megaphones can cleave off some portion of any crowd and direct it to do work. Old tactic. Anyone can learn AP tactics and run a crowd. Basic carnival work. “Step right up! You there! Come here!” Take social media, as example. The APs are the owners.


He has been in many demonstratiosn and in combat.

The Crack Emcee said...

BTW - I wrote "Riot!" which got heard and re-worked into "Crackhouse", so, my position on mayhem, to counter lunacy, is clear and consistent.* Race doesn't really come into it.

*I couldn't remember the Barry Goldwater line.

daskol said...

If you repeat the "he must resign" canard, I wouldn't say it means you would go Nazi. But it doesn't say you wouldn't. Inconclusive at best!

Matt Sablan said...

I mentioned the Who Goes Nazi article on another website. I don't think people will like the answer.

narciso said...

This moderation is carp, if the most mendacous jackasses keep getting through.

hombre said...

Althouse: “If Trump knew there was a plan to storm the Capitol building, then his speech to the crowd was an incitement, even though he never told the crowd to commit any act of violence.”

You can’t be serious. Are you joining the Democrat lynch mob?

His words must be taken at face value and as you have pointed out, they did not incite. Climb on the TDS band wagon if you will, but kindly do not insult us and demean yourself by torturing the words AND the law to do it.

Unbelievable!

Lewis Wetzel said...

I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, but I did in 2020. I like Trump's pro-American policies & his willingness to express contempt for the media and PC dictates.
I've heard of qanon only from written left-wing media sources, like WaPo. I know a lot of pro-Trump people, but their support is given hesitantly and is always qualified. They praise some of his actions and mock others ("I guess Trump'll get that wall built any day now!").
I have known many more college professors who declared themselves Marxist than I have known people of any kind who declared themselves qanon (zero, to be exact).
And I live in a small town in Western Wisconsin.

wild chicken said...

I was seeing dark intimations of some sort of plan afoot in twitter comments since Nov 3.

Guys were promising, just you wait and see what we've got in store, Biden will never be president etc. And if wasn't the legal action. I never think to screenshot these randos.

Buti don't know if Trump knew of it.

Temujin said...

1) There is not a question that some people planned to rush the Capitol. That does not just happen.
2) There is evidence that there were people on both sides with that plan- Antifa and some right side people, possibly, but not definitely Proud Boys. What is not clear is what each of them hoped to do while entering the Capitol. We know what Antifa likes to do. Destruction. Proud Boys do not have that history.
3) Ridiculous that Trump was knowledgeable about those specific plans. More realistic: the security apparatus of the US knew about any plans by any of these people to rush the Capitol, and not only did not staff up for it, but in once instance- opened the gates and waved people past the barricades. So there's my conspiracy theory.
4) The other, more important conspiracy is who was helping BLM and Antifa all summer? And who oversaw the stealing of the election? I would say those two are tied together and that the same people were behind both.

I think GoogleAppleFacebookTwitterAmazon have something to say about all of it, personally.

Lurker21 said...

"Plausible deniability" is what all politicians and bureaucrats do, like "lying" is what all press secretaries and communications directors do. As an amateur, Trump isn't really that good at it. But he gets hit with all these accusations and conspiracy theories for which there isn't convincing evidence. Hit Obama or Clinton with the same number and severity of charges and they would likewise find ways to sidestep them.

Freder Frederson said...

“I mean lots of Althouse were waiting with excited anticipation. The violence was predictable. Everyone predicted it” [needs citation]

Sheesh, we can start with the statements of Qwinn (who actually claimed to be there and has been quite quiet the last few days), Achilles, Shouting Thomas (you don't even have to go beyond this thread to see he(a church organist) is ready to take to the streets (although I think he is the kind to incite from his office rather than get his hands dirty) and Bruce Hayden. Bruce devoted considerable space to deciding which ammunition would be best to kill leftists and boasting about the firepower he possesses. Achilles has, on numerous occasions, fantasized about mass executions of practically everyone in Washington.

Wince said...

steve uhr said...
[link] Trump Jr.


Steve, I watched it. What's your point?

Chris of Rights said...

Ann Althouse said...
I have consistently opposed all violent protests. So don't lump me in with the people who have been hypocritical. It makes you look biased and in denial. Please try to maintain your own credibility.


No, I can lump you in, and in fact, you deserve to be lumped in. Unless you are also calling for the resignation of Pelosi, AOC, Kamala Harris, etc, who were very explicit in their support of the BLM riots and their calls for violence. I've heard you denounce the riots, but did you call for these people to resign? If you did, then I retract my statement. If not, then you're just as hypocritical as the others.

I find this whole parade of folks suddenly outraged at what happened at the Capitol to be the most disgusting thing about it.

If there was any consistency to it, if people had been outraged over all of the violence the last four years aimed at Trump and Trump supporters, then I might be willing to go along with what's being said. But there isn't. So this week was just a big nothingburger as far as I am concerned.

Move on.

DINKY DAU 45 said...


Antifa,BLM, Proud Boys,Qanon ,My side your side,Blue and Red ,North and South WE all know who wins in the end and who loses.Read history.6MWE (6 MILLION NOT ENOUGH, AUSCHWITZ T SHIRTS,red coats,red hats..PARLER next being put in trash can ,where will the losers go? Thank you trump for losing the White House, House and Senate, the left couldnt do it without you. For the history books, two time impeached,presided over almost 400,000 dead Americans, worst jobS record in history, most debt accumulated in a short 4 years, presided over Capitol insurrection 1st since 1812 and has his own cabinet and sycophants calling on his resignation. Yes a real soothsayer, AMERICAN CARNAGE predicted in his speech, January 6th 2021 brought it to fruition. What a manager huh, kind of like his businesses, please just leave, go to MAR A LOGO(SHORT PERIOD EVEN THEY SAID YOU CANT LIVE THERE,YOUR RULES) your not doing any work anyway just leave and don't come back, PENCE IS NOT PARDONING YOU (AN ADMISSION OF GUILT)EVEN GOD TAUGHT THE ISRAELITES A LESSON,(over and over again) did they learn? will WE? 6MWE ,NICE T SHIRTS HUH! 10 days and a wake up .No excuses now Dems got all 3 branches again thanks to trump(don't vote Georgia its rigged, brilliant Art of the Deal huh? they didn't) ,1st time in what 11 years? Now we can judge their ability without the GRIM REAPERS obstruction.be much easier to see the results. Where will the trumpeters go now, their shutting down all their meeting places? 250 hours left, Milly notified about football and biscuit(just like Schlesinger and Nixon AS HE WALKED THE HALLS ranting in his last days,(Nancy Reagan WH while Ronnie Ray Guns was talking to the curtains. What is with these Repub Prezs' going berserk in the end? Oh well its anew dawn ,a new day in 250 hours DINKY DAU fer sure!

Lurker21 said...

I don't doubt that there were provocateurs in the crowd. But the problem with a lot of the claims is that just as Antifa adopts fascist tactics, so have extremist groups on the right adopted Antifa and Black Block tactics and outfits, so it's hard to tell one from the other. Men decked out in riot gear who came off buses ready for violence weren't necessarily Antifa, any more that the shirtless, tattooed, face-painted guy with a horned helmet and a megaphone was necessarily a left-wing wacko.

Ann Althouse said...

Crack Emcee wrote: " I will NEVER be the conservative anyone wants me to be. For instance, I HAVE to stay "The Crack Emcee" because I have fans on the other side, who know me, and I'm pulling them along to our side, just by staying consistent - that's how I became a conservative. If I tried a new persona now - which I ain't even feelin'? THEN I'd be a sellout. Not when I think I got more in common with Michael K than Michael Moore.

"I'm out - I'll speak."

I copied that because I had to delete his post because it had a name I always delete. Please help me by not responding to the known trolls who are going to get deleted.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Temujin

"We know what Antifa likes to do. Destruction. Proud Boys do not have that history. "

Wanted to highlight that. Antifa are destruction little f*ers and we know this to be a fact. we also know for a fact the msm and the d-party ignore and excuse and lie about ALL antifa violence.

Wince said...

Blogger Matt Sablan said...
Bowser probably told law enforcement to stand down because that's her standard go-to move, and she expected the normal level of Trump protest violence, which is to say, minimal to none.

Not only that, Bowser told the Trump administration and the military, in writing, to stand down (see her letter, at my link above).

Francisco D said...

Meade said...Mr. President, when did you stop sending out coded messages to your wife?

It is not Trump that they are after. It is all of us who send out speech they do not agree with.

The university campus has given itself up to speech censorship. That was the beta trial. Now comes the full roll out.

MikeR said...

Kind of a bizarre post. If he was informed of a plan. Is there some reason why I should consider that a reasonable possibility? Or that he would have taken it seriously?
Find the evidence first, then tell me about what you would conclude if there were evidence.
"Yes, but if there was a quid pro quo..." Why make stuff up?

hombre said...

MayBee: “Dear Conservatives and Trump people, don't you dare think you are going to get away with what we got away with.”

This is obvious and perfect. If you have a Twitter account, it will be cancelled.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann Althouse said...

"Please help me by not responding to the known trolls who are going to get deleted."

Done, Your Highness.

She will never be referenced again - like she was a Trump supporter.

Qwinn said...

I've been quiet the last few days? So my 20+ posts in the "media filter" thread yesterday constitute "quiet"?

I regret nothing I've said. The election was blatantly stolen. The evidence is overwhelming, and every lever of power has been captured is being applied to ram it through. There really can't be any excessive response to that.

tim maguire said...


Blogger I Callahan said...
would like whoever killed Brian Sicknick to be found, tried, and put in prison for the murderer they are.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-police-officer-dies-injuries-suffered-riots/story?id=75124131


Thanks for the link. I keep bringing this up and I expect it to gain traction over time—how much actual violence was there? Very little as far as I can tell. Virtually none of the cries of insurrection, storming, etc, are accompanied by evidence.

Should Trump resign if he knew of the plan? That’s an absurd question raised by unserious people when it hasn’t even been demonstrated that there was a plan. A plan for what? For some guy from Canada to wave a confederate flag or another guy who has never voted in a federal election in his life to pose smilingly for pictures with Pelosi’s podium in his arms? For a guy in animal skins to be photographed waving his arms? For capital guards to over-react and kill a woman for climbing through a broken window into a room fill of armed police?

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann, Meade, you guys are gonna have to figure something out:

You got one of the last places to talk.

I quit Twitter and facebook has screwed with me so much, I'm almost there.

The world's shrinking in the Information Age.

hombre said...

The Democrat lynch mob, their corruption and hypocrisy is reaching a point at which neutrality, cruel or otherwise, is like being a “good German.”

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The Crack Emcee - Well I for one appreciate people who think for themselves. Like you. "conservatives" - (I use the term lightly) are more fractured and disagree and have open debate all the time. It's the hivemind left who follow orders, obey their masters, worhsip blindly their Party(D), and swallow whole their Maddow MSNBC hollywood SNL talking points.


DavidUW said...

Because everything posted on IG is the truth.

MountainMan said...

Temujin said..."..and not only did not staff up for it, but in once instance- opened the gates and waved people past the barricades."

I have seen three different videos that show the Capitol Police did not take any action to restrict the protesters from entering the Capitol but let them in:

(1) There is a video at ground level on the south side of the Capitol of an opening in the barricade and a Capitol Police office waving his arm and encouraging the protestors to come on in
(2) There is another video up closer to the Capitol building itself where Capitol Police officers open up a barricade and stand aside as the protesters enter; no attempt made to impede them in any way.
(3) Finally, there is a video at a south exterior entrance to the Capitol rotunda itself where a Capitol Police officer holds a door open where the protesters are allowed to enter and go up the stairs into the rotunda. There are maybe 5-6 Capitol Police standing with their backs against the walls of that hallway that make no attempt in any way to impede the protesters from going up the stairs.


Freder Frederson said...

I've been quiet the last few days? So my 20+ posts in the "media filter" thread yesterday constitute "quiet"?

For you, yes.

Qwinn said...

MountainMan:

The third video you mention doesn't just qualify as proof the police "didn't interfere". It was a frikkin' police escort into the building.

TickTock said...

When I saw Ann's list of "violent" quotations from Trumps speech, immediately followed by a post on Biden's support for an anti-terrorism law, it finally became clear to me that the country I grew up in and whose values I was taught to love and respect is gone forever. Does anyone here think a law on domestic terrorism will have a requirement for scienter?

Freder Frederson said...

I regret nothing I've said. The election was blatantly stolen. The evidence is overwhelming, and every lever of power has been captured is being applied to ram it through. There really can't be any excessive response to that.

See Meade? You are willfully ignorant if you had no idea some of your commenters were threatening violence to overthrow the vote.

Bob Boyd said...

Yesterday...in the comments, Bob Boyd said, "Putsch implies a plan. There was no plan. It was a protest that turned into a riot."

Yesterday in the comments we were talking about a Putsch, not about taking the demonstration from the street into the building. Putsch was defined in the post I was commenting on:

A "Putsch" is "An attempt to overthrow a government, esp. by violent means; an insurrection or coup d'├ętat." That's the OED.

I think we need to differentiate between a Putsch and a breach. There's a big difference. Were some hotter headed protestors talking big online before the march? Out of a hundred thousand people? Doubtless.
Is that planning a Coup or an insurrection? I'd say no. Does it even rise to the level of a plan of any kind? I suppose, in the sense of expressing an intention, it could be called a plan, but in the sense of a detailed proposal for achieving or doing something, I'd say we haven't established that.

IMO, the reason the media wants to call this a Putsch or a coup is, they need to make it more than a protest. They have been praising violent protests all year and there are probably more BLM and Antifa protests to come. They can't come out against protests now.
I haven't seen any evidence that the protestors at the Capitol wanted to do anything more than shake their fists under the noses of the Congressmen and Senators who they feel have betrayed their oaths. I don't have any reason to think they had any intention of setting themselves up as the new rulers of America. They wanted to be heard, not ignored, then go home.
I don't know what Trump was thinking, but you can't reasonably claim he was plotting a Coup because some guy got wound up and popped off on Instagram.

Qwinn said...

Freder sez: "Your speech is violence, our violence is speech!"

Unexpectedly.

Francisco D said...

But what if Trump knew there was a plan to storm the Capitol? Then all those words are transformed! They become an incitement to the violence,

I am absolutely sure that Putin told him ahead of time. However, Putin double-crossed him. He promised to send elite Spetsnaz troops to arrest the Congress and install Trump as dictator for life.

Thus the newest attempt at a coup is only defensive to protect the Constitution ...

... and the children of course.

Ray - SoCal said...

The Lincoln project is creating a blacklist of Trump Supporters.

First the Reichstag Fire.

Now the night of long knives.

What’s next?

This sounds crazy, But my guess is Trump supporters will be classified as domestic terrorists.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/01/lincoln-project-creating-database-to-prevent-trump-admin-officials-from-future-employment/

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

When do we start impeachment proceedings for Harris and Biden. Harris conspired with the rioters to do more rioting as a means of political pressure. Biden accepted bribes from Russia, Ukraine and China via his deadbeat son, Hunter and his brother, James.

As for Nancy Pelosi, she was advocating an uprising against the legitimate government in 2018 and needs to be removed from office for sedition. The same goes for Adam "I have secret evidence" Schift who kept promoting the Russian hoax.

Paul Snively said...

The most horrifying prospect, by far, IMO, and also, tragically, the most likely:

1. The government has the surveillance infrastructure and cooperation of both digital and print media to have access to any such plans at any time.

2. Partly due to incompetence, partly due to institutional siloing, and partly due to the sheer volume of data involved, no "there's a planned insurrection on the capitol on the 6th" assertion was held by relevant law enforcement and capitol security stakeholders before the day.

3. A loosening of the legal definition of "incitement" occurs, and not just with regards to the President of the United States.

4. A charge of incitement is adduced and prosecuted based solely on the means of surveillance, media cooperation, and volume of data points, ex post facto. "He had to have known!"

5. We find ourselves in a regime where any event anyone doesn't like—criminal or otherwise—is either literally criminalized or is subject to doxxing, deplatforming, etc. based on highly dispersed, non-cohesive information that is easy to filter and aggregate ex post facto.

In other words, in an enormous, distributed information environment, you can adduce support for whatever assertion you want, ex post facto.

Meade said...

D.D. Driver said...
“I mean lots of Althouse were waiting with excited anticipation. The violence was predictable. Everyone predicted it” [needs citation]

Here's a good example of a thread if you are interested. There are plenty more like it.

1/10/21, 8:12 AM
-----------------
I am interested. Thanks. I skimmed through that thread and found a few commenters warning about violence but only one commenter predicting violence. It was you. @5:46 PM

Freder Frederson said...

the reason the media wants to call this a Putsch or a coup is, they need to make it more than a protest.

It was poorly planned, but there were definitely some in the mob planning a coup. If not to "arrest" members of Congress, why were several people equipped with flexi-cuffs?

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 436   Newer› Newest»