Write Meg Kelly and Elyse Samuels at the Washington Post "Fact Checker," addressing the many statements by Trump that the Black Lives Matter protests involve antifa.
This, by the way, was also the problem the NYT had with the Tom Cotton op-ed. As I said when the NYT first expressed regret for publishing the piece:
A particular problem with Cotton's piece was that it said "left-wing radicals like antifa infiltrating protest marches to exploit Floyd’s death for their own anarchic purposes," but the NYT has not yet reported that the violent element was antifa. Its news story on June 1 had said "conservative commentators are asserting with little evidence that antifa, the far-left anti-fascism activist movement coordinates the riots and looting."I added: "Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?"
Whether Cotton was right or wrong about the facts, there is a problem with factual assertions in op-eds. I've written op-eds for the NYT, and it was with a very short deadline and I was trusted to get the facts in order. I don't know how much the Times intends to change its process, but I assume it wants and needs to have some distance between itself and the writers it brings in from the outside to give a hot take on a breaking controversial story.
I'm mildly glad to see the WaPo Fact Checker addressing this topic, but it's pathetic that this basic level of journalistic inquiry is coming so late. It is, however, horrible that Trump (and Cotton) have spread this meme. Maybe they are right and the Fact Checker is wrong, but it's not enough to luck out in the end and have said something that turns out to be the truth. We should care about the truth for the sake of truth and care about it all along. There's so little of that these days.
Posts
328 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 328 of 328https://www.fox29.com/news/travis-county-da-three-members-of-antifa-arrested-for-looting-austin-target-store -- Three people self identified as antifa arrested (But just looting, so maybe not "violent")
Well, if there’s no Antifa, then I guess it’s just the usual registered Democrats. The WaPo thinks that’s better for their narrative somehow?
The Mafia should use this tactic.
They have no membership records, no receipts for dues paid, no meeting minutes. Therefore, the Mafia doesn’t exist!
I'm not seeing any links to something substantive that I requested. Am I missing something?
The media's desire to provide you the plausible deniability you so desperately seek?
"In July 2019, a self-proclaimed anarchist extremist and anti-fascist (Antifa), Willem Van Spronsen, attempted to firebomb the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facility in Tacoma, Washington, while armed with a rifle." -- https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics
And with truth comes the realization that all of societies ill’s can’t be blamed on the Left. The almost complete denial that there are any right wing entities that are calling for the destruction of the government and the country isn’t reality.
The difference is, the Left wields political power and the Right is a joke that no one takes seriously.
Ann wants links?
Andy Ngo, who, unlike anybody at the WaPo and NYC, has actually researched Antifa quite a bit, spent 5 days in CHOP and wrote a long article about it in the NY Post. I realize Althouse thinks the Post is a bit declasse, not quite up to the level of the NYT and the WaPo, but some of us who have been reading Ngo for years find him credible:
"Left-wing political groups have capitalized on the opportunity to recruit new members. The Democratic Socialists of America features prominently in addition to the Seattle Revolutionary Socialists. But in the absence of any vetting, perhaps intentionally, extremists have also set up shop. One station that operates off and on distributes extremist anarchist-Communist agitprop — the political ideology of Antifa. In one manual titled, “Blockade, Occupy, Strike Back,” instructions show how to use human shields against police, and make rudimentary “bombs” using light bulbs and paint.
Another booklet is titled “Against the Police and the Prison World They Maintain.” It features short essays on why police, capitalism and the state must be destroyed by any means necessary, including through violence. One section explains how the media are enemies used to “pacify” revolutionaries.
“Our contempt for the media is inextricable from our hatred of this entire world,” the booklet reads. Attacks on journalists who are accused of not toeing the line have become commonplace. On Monday, a masked Antifa militant pointed me out to her comrades and tried to assemble a mob. I left before I could be injured. The following day, a Fox News crew was forced out of the zone."
https://nypost.com/2020/06/20/my-terrifying-5-day-stay-inside-seattles-autonomous-zone/
So - Althouse, is Ngo simply pulling these stories out of his ass and making things up? Or perhaps these characters are boogaloos in deep disguise - funny, I always thought of actual white supremacists as guys with even lower IQs than Inga, but they are somehow capable of cleverly passing themselves off as Antifa. That's quite a trick.
Now, I found most of those links using Google. I find it fascinating the WaPo claims to have been unable to find any evidence of violence associated with antifa.
I'm not seeing any links to something substantive that I requested. Am I missing something?
The main issue here is whether the Trump Administration has committed a four-Pinocchio lie by indicating that Antifa has been involved in involved in recent riots.
A second issue is whether the Trump Administration's alleged four-Pinocchio lie has led to more chaos and violence.
A third issue is whether an assertion without evidence constitutes a lie.
I suppose that your demand for a link is a fourth issue.
-----
What is missing most for me is your explanation for your idea that an assertion without evidence constitutes a lie.
From the NYT
Air Force Sergeant With Ties to Extremist Group Charged in Federal Officer’s Death. The sergeant had expressed his allegiance to the so-called boogaloo movement, an extremist ideology that seeks to overthrow the U.S. government.
Are there any links to people belonging to BLM being arrested?
I'm not seeing any links to something substantive that I requested
Perhaps this is the problem?
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/06/18/wikipedia-editors-censor-antifa-involvement-in-riots-past-violence/
I'm sure this is just a coincidence: Does this guy have a membership card?
Well, you could go to Andy Ngo's Twitter feed here. He has mugshots of Antifa members who were arrested in the rioting. You know, Andy actually does reporting, something the Washington Post has discarded in favor of making narratives.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo
Sure seems like a lot of white people involved.
I will interpret vague denouncements of WaPo and me as a failure to come up with anything substantive.
So Althouse comes out in favour of the same people who smashed her city to bits. Sad.
Or she's just trolling her readership...again.
The almost complete denial that there are any right wing entities that are calling for the destruction of the government and the country isn’t reality.
Speaking of lunacy. Ann refuses to accept evidence all over the place. Andy Ngo has almost paid with his life to expose these lunatics. They tend to stay in left wing jurisdictions, like Portland and Seattle and Minneapolis where they are protected.
Considering we also have Rose City Antifa, Andy Ngo and the most recent insider video of antifa planning violence and how to attack people in the streets from O'Keefe, I really wonder how journalists can KEEP insisting "Antifa isn't a group, it's just an idea" nonsense. They are clearly organized; you can go to their Reddit and get a PDF on how to set up a chapter, for God's sake!
“
Blogger Douglas said...
The ATF task force arrested 50 people for arson in connection with the riots around the country the other day. Three were identified by the feds as members of a far fright fringe group. We haven't heard anything yet about the identity of the other 47. Maybe The Washington Post or The NY Times could sic one of their ace reporters on that story.”
Probably Mennonites. But those folks are mostly peaceful, so I wouldn’t worry.
Ann,this is ridiculous. As I'm sure many have pointed out, no one is going to come out and say "I'm with Antifa." The whole approach of the movement is decentralization, anonymity, organic innovation. Yet the movement has clearly laid claim to the violence, as can be seen proudly displayed in this recent piece:
https://crimethinc.com/2020/06/10/the-siege-of-the-third-precinct-in-minneapolis-an-account-and-analysis
The piece celebrates arson, anonymity, local innovation but also obviously communication of strategies around the country.
Crimethinc is a long-lived anarchist web site out of Salem, Oregon. From what I can tell Crimethinc and Antifa are basically just different identifiers for the same disgusting, aggressive brand of far-left "anarchy" that seems to have evolved into its most poisonous form out in the northwest.
And to repeat what others have said - do you simply discount the work of Andy Ngo, and the films of insane violence against the police that have become a regular part of life in Seattle and Portland?
We should care about the truth for the sake of truth and care about it all along. There's so little of that these days.
Yes. I agree.
Finding the truth is a process. Cotton and Trump have made accusations. Time will tell if they are correct or not.
In other words, we do not know what Bill Barr knows.
Surprised nobody mentioned the recently released O'Keeffe videos that don't exist exposing Antifa that doesn't exist.
One little tidbit from that pro-violence and pro-arson article I just posted:
"Going into Day Two, one of the dominant storylines was the threat of 'Boogaloo boys,' who had showed up the previous day. This surprised us because we didn’t encounter them on Day One. We saw half a dozen of them on Day Two, but they had relegated themselves to the sidelines of an event that outstripped them. Despite their proclaimed sympathy with George Floyd, a couple of them later stood guard in front of a business to defend it from looters. This demonstrated not only the limit of their claimed solidarity, but also of their strategic sensibility."
The NYT, January 2020.
Virginia Capital on Edge as F.B.I. Arrests Suspected Neo-Nazis Before Gun Rally. The three men had obtained guns and discussed traveling to Virginia for protests against new gun control measures, officials said.
“Members of numerous armed militias and white power proponents vowed to converge on the city despite the state of emergency declared by Gov. Ralph Northam, who temporarily banned weapons from the grounds of the State Capitol. The potential for an armed confrontation prompted fears of a rerun of the 2017 far-right rally that left one person dead and some two dozen injured in Charlottesville, about an hour’s drive from Monday’s rally.
The unease increased after the F.B.I. announced the arrest on Thursday of three armed men suspected of being members of a neo-Nazi hate group, including a former Canadian Army reservist, who had obtained weapons and discussed participating in the Richmond rally. The men were linked to the Base, a group that aims to create a white ethnostate, according to the F.B.I.
For weeks, discussions about the rally have lit up Facebook pages and chat rooms frequented by militia members and white supremacists. Various extremist organizations or their adherents are calling Monday’s rally the “boogaloo.” In the lexicon of white supremacists, that is an event that will accelerate the race war they have anticipated for decades.
“They are fanning the flames for this event,” said Megan Squire, a professor at Elon University in North Carolina who tracks extremist chatter online. “They want chaos.””
AG Barr recently classified Antifa as domestic terrorists. AG Barr has no proof of this because he hasn't posted his evidence on-line.
TEXARKANA, Texas — A 36-year-old man with apparent ties to a loose movement of right-wing extremists has been indicted in Texas on charges including the attempted capital murder of a peace officer.
“Aaron Swenson was arrested in April by police in Texarkana, Texas, and accused of threatening to ambush and kill a police officer in a Facebook Live video. He was wearing a ballistic vest when officers took him into custody, and they found two loaded pistols and a shotgun in his car, according to a police report.
Swenson’s Facebook page included references to the “boogaloo” movement, a network of gun enthusiasts who often express support for overthrowing the U.S. government, according to police and the Tech Transparency Project, which tracks technology companies. Hours before his arrest, police said, Swenson wrote a post under an alias saying “I feel like hunting the hunters.”“
Then there's this lovely individual:
https://www.rt.com/usa/490352-antifa-tackled-washington-protest/
The bigger issue here is the media is actively gaslighting us. We get the message that Antifa is the equivalent of American troops on D-Day, followed by Antifa not actually existing, followed by Antifa, despite their long history of violent action, being the victims of white supremacists. This is easily witnessed in real time if you pay any attention at all. (Reading the New York Times or the Washington Post does not count as paying attention. They are selling you something and it ain't news.)
You are watching the equivalent of the Maoists coming out of the woodwork, overtly announcing their plans to eliminate all freedoms in favor of their totalitarian utopia with corporations falling into line to force compliance, but yet here we are discussing a fact check (actually an op-ed pretending to be objective) by the Washington Post (a newspaper that has long given up on objectivity and is staffed with journalists who are incompetent and can be easily duped as Ben Rhodes bragged repeatedly) about a subject that is inconvenient to the narrative so of course they dump all over it. I fail to see your point. Were you unable to find the latest pamphlet from the Socialist Workers Party to rely upon?
If any arrests of Antifa were made Trump would be gleefully tweeting it/them. His silence on the boogaloos and right wing entities that have been arrested is telling.
Andy Ngo, who, unlike anybody at the WaPo and NYC, has actually researched Antifa quite a bit, spent 5 days in CHOP and wrote a long article about it in the NY Post. I realize Althouse thinks the Post is a bit declasse, not quite up to the level of the NYT and the WaPo, but some of us who have been reading Ngo for years find him credible:
Yah, I mentioned Logan and Ngo, too. Perhaps Ann doesn't find their reporting to be substantive. She's probably holding out for The New Yorker think piece...
Antifa flag at Seattle checkpoint
@Inga,
What's your point with this "boogaloo" nonsense? Are there going to be right-wing crazies who use the chaos as opportunities for mayhem? Sure, and no one has argues that they wouldn't.
But, you really think that a guy named "Carillo" is involved in a white-supremacist organization? Does the ideological demands coming out of the demonstrations show even a hint of right-wing focus? Are white supremacists pulling down statues of the Confederacy & Columbus & the Founders? Are the "cancelers" coming after people for right-wing reasons?
Open up your eyes. This is a cultural insurrection by the hard left. Just like the looters robbed Target of big screen TVs for no other reason than that they could, so there will be right-wing opportunism. But that's not the cultural wave that's afoot.
Seattle Antifascists
@RainCityAntifa
·
Jun 9
We need more people with guns at the CHAZ
It's not that hard to look up Antifa's Twitter feed, Althouse.
But the misinformation created by his continued insistence of antifa’s involvement has led to more chaos and violence in an already turbulent moment.
What is the factual basis for this? Did they provide any links? Does Alhouse demand links of the fact checkers?
I'm fine with it maybe not being Antifa. Who is rioting? Who is looting? Any interest in that?
WaPo "fact" checkers: "But the misinformation created by his continued insistence of antifa’s involvement has led to more chaos and violence in an already turbulent moment."
Someone needs to fact check the fact checkers. According to them the burden is only the speaker -- so, speakers, show us how how what Trump/Barr said caused more chaos and violence?
Don't forget to take into account the criminal cases that have bee filed against so many rioters/arsonists while you're at it.
Matt Sablan: ""In July 2019, a self-proclaimed anarchist extremist and anti-fascist (Antifa), Willem Van Spronsen, attempted to firebomb the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facility in Tacoma, Washington, while armed with a rifle." -- https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics"
Nope.
Inga has already helpfully explained that all acts of violence are the result of hawaiian shirt wearing boogaloo-ers whispering in the ears of innocent and naive and well meaning leftists who are totally peaceful in their noble intent unless an violent incident cannot be explained away by boogaloo-ers participating...in which case the event never happened.
Did you know that to date, Inga has never offered a single word of criticism for any islamic mass murder any where in the world, US domestic leftist violence or MS13 murders?
She invariably blames American Christian conservatives, boogaloo-ers and republicans.
You could continue to demand links (which exiled did up above), or you could retreat a bit (might be a first, I know) and admit that "To assert that something is true when there is no evidence of it is to lie" was a dumb comment.
I've watched Antifa evolve since the 1999 Seattle WTO riots. In the Bay Area the movement has absorbed those who fancy themselves Marxist-Leninist-Maoists; they would show up at events led by the old civil-rights nonviolent left and hijack them, threading violence to anyone who objected or attempted to photograph them. An essential element of Antifa's existence is that, like the Mob in its heyday, Antifa does not exist. So when a journalist says "There has not yet been a single confirmed case in which someone who self-identifies as antifa led violent acts at any of the protests across the country," they are either being willfully obtuse or they fear for their safety. No genuine mobster in the heyday of the Mob would publicly self-identify as a mobster. The same is true of Antifa today.
On yesterday's long comment from Laslo, Althouse got quite upset that he implied she didn't see exactly what the press is doing when it comes to obfuscating what is happening out here.
But today she is demanding *we* somehow provide links from those media sources to back up an assertion the Washington Post has made. That nobody arrested has "self Identified" as Antifa.
But what are we seeing with our own eyes? We have seen groups we have been told call themselves Antifa look and act this exact same way. We have seen those same people be treated as heroic as d-day soldiers by the same news outlets we are supposed to link to?
This feels very "Trump said he didn't collude with Russia. We the Washington Post have 17 intelligence agencies that say Russia hacked the DNC server and Trump stood with Putin and said he wasn't sure this was true. Therefore, all our evidence points to Trump colluding with Russia If you want to dispute that, give me the links. Otherwise, Trump is a liar"
There are no links, because the people charged with giving the information are on ONE SIDE.
Inga said...
If any arrests of Antifa were made Trump would be gleefully tweeting it/them. His silence on the boogaloos and right wing entities that have been arrested is telling.
Is it telling? They are being arrested, aren't they?
Tell me....do you think Trump, who is currently the President of the United States, supports an anti-government group? Do you think Trump, who has moved in National Guard troops and who has suggested moving in US Troops to quell riots supports anti-government groups?
How does that make any sense to you?
Do you think black people are following the boogaloo movement into rioting and burning things? I've asked you several times now.
Keep this in mind: This Leftist Tantrum Is an Information Operation and Trump Is Winning It.
AntiFA, in particular, has been training at least since last summer for just this sort of action. They are a lot more sophisticated this year. They are showing up with body armor and gas masks. They are scanning police frequencies, and then using that information to jam police radios, or to track the police. They rapidly dispersed pallets of bricks around Dem cities around the country. They were ready to bus their foot soldiers to wherever they were needed on very short notice and then did, when George Floyd died in police custody. They were ready for someone to pull the trigger, and when it was, those big cities exploded in violence.
Many believe that the Dems have a series of crises Or attacks on Trump planned for the rest of the year, up through the election. At least a couple more. Bolton may be part of the next one. We shall see. These riots were likely the next one scheduled, esp since they can’t control AntiFA and BLM as closely as they can such attacks as impeachment. This was going to be a violent summer - the only question was when it would explode, and if they waited too long, it would ignite too slowly to be that effective. Think about the difference between igniting gunpowder in a firearm, and loose.
And the reason, I think, that these planned riots were incorporated into the Dems’ plans is that they wanted a Kent State massacre. But this was a risky play, and, so far, it has backfired, hurting the Democrats, and not the Republicans, simply because Dem mayors and governors did nothing to oppose the rioting, but instead, facilitated them, through manipulation of the police and their responses. Meanwhile, Republican mayors and governors acted promptly, with overwhelming force, most often killing the riots before they could take off.
So, this article can be seen as damage control, with one of the Dems’ major publications spinning and pretending that the violent rioters and arsonists just spontaneously came together to protest George Floyd’s death. Nope. It was green lighted from the top. This is pure damage control on the part of the Democrats. They lost this round. Trump outmaneuver day them, sitting back, and putting the responsibility where it belongs, on the Dem politicians who not only allowed the riots, but facilitated them. He would help with troops, but only if they begged him, which, of course, they weren’t going to do. They now have to sanitize or whitewash their involvement. And that is what is going on here.
Althouse
I asked you explicitly to justify your standard that only SELF IDENTIFICATION counts as evidence. By that standard there was never a mafia killing until the late 1980s. By that standard the pilot who crashed into the mountains did not commit suicide. By that standard Trump is not a liar.
Defend your standard!
This article from Rachel Alexander of Townhall touches all the points others are making that Althouse is ignoring. The links shows funding, the funding sites can be found by anyone else just by looking. Is this enough material to convict? Probably not. But with the exception of one guy with a 3% tattoo being arrested (the same weekend that NYU law professors were arrested for the same crime), I'm not seeing the evidence of white nationalist involvement. I'm certainly not seeing a funding source for the white nationalist involvement, yet it is not hard to find legal fee funding for Antifa and BLM protestors.
Enjoy your people Ann. Even Professor Jacobson says your side owns them. https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/08/democrats-own-antifa-just-like-they-owned-occupy/
Miss Ann, how about you go read what Andy Ngo has to say?
Why do you assiduously ignore people who have seen Antifa up close and personal, in favor of purported "fact-checkers" at notorious propaganda organs??
and WHY does the lack of "self-identifying" as Antifa **prove** that the perps are not Antifa people?
Surely a law prof would understand that to do so would be potentially incriminating. Surely a law prof would know that many perps would invoke their right to silence.
But maybe not.
The NYT, January 2020.
Virginia Capital on Edge as F.B.I. Arrests Suspected Neo-Nazis Before Gun Rally. The three men had obtained guns and discussed traveling to Virginia for protests against new gun control measures, officials said.
Obtaining guns is protected by the 2nd Amendment. Discussing travelling is protected by the 1st Amendment. Protesting the Virginia government is also protected by the 1st Amendment. The article is old. The protest actually happened at the Virginia capital with many people carrying weapons in the open. No violence occurred, despite the NYT claiming ahead of time, and now Inga afterwards, that there would be. Alas, Inga is a recognized troll.
Of course, not all the violence is caused by Antifa. Some of it is just plain old thuggery caused by the breakdown of law and order. From Powerline:
"Criminals apparently are getting a jump on the prospect of a cop-free Minneapolis. Last night, there was a “large gathering of people” on Hennepin Avenue just north of Lake Street. For reasons yet unknown, people within that crowd began shooting at one another. It sounds like a gang battle, but again, no details are yet known. Twelve people were shot, and at least one has died.
This took place in the heart of Uptown, an entertainment and shopping district, within a few blocks of some of the city’s most expensive neighborhoods..."
The Powerline post featurs a 17 minute video right after the shootings. I looked hard for the boogaloos in Hawaiian shirts that make Inga piss herself with fright, but I didn't see anybody answering to that description. Just black people shooting each other - again.
Inga doesn't care about that though. Black victims are only important when white people shoot them.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/shootout-in-minneapolis.php
Althouse, are you drunk?
There has to be a reason why the obvious becomes so hard to see for you at times.
The involvement of Antifa is really way beyond questionable. There are tons of proof out there, much of it written by themselves. You could call it "self-identifying". Not to mention, just watching video of the actual rioting and attacks on Trump supporters, veterans, anybody really. You can simply watch them do it while claiming who they are.
What evidence is there that some other group is behind all this? The only way that would be possible is for that other group to effectively impersonate thousands of Antifa in person and on line without a peep from actual Antifa. You really think that's a possibility? I bet they start claiming it now that people like you show you can be fooled so easily.
I think Athouse is just being a real dumbass today. Got up on the far left side of the bed maybe?
I can make it from the northeast side of Indianapolis to Louisville in an hour and a half, but I don't self-identify as a speeder.
Do you see the problem with WaPo's Fact Checker?
I'm reserving all judgment until WaPo publishes a richly photographed "A Day in the Life of an Antifa Warrior".
Then we'll know.
Althouse: “It is, however, horrible that Trump (and Cotton) have spread this meme.“
Because everybody knows Antifa is non-violent, right? Just ask the residents of Portland and Andy Ngo.
Better yet, we can take the word of WaPo fact checkers over Trump and Cotton because of Wapo’s sterling reputation for investigative reporting. I will admit I didn’t read the article because of the paywall. I don’t use pay toilets either. However, it is inconceivable that WaPo can say authoritatively that Antifa isn’t responsible for the violence, particularly when remembering that Antifa, like BLM has tentacles.
As somebody else pointed out earlier, anyone who was stupid enough to fall for the Collusion hoax is far too unsophisticated a news consumer to be expected to recognize the agenda in the WaPo post. Though to most thinking people, it is plain and obvious.
I'll continue to believe my own lying eyes, thank you.
Antifa isn't like a political party that sends canvassers door to door and collects campaign donations. But it IS organized, and it plans personal attacks and sets off fires and explosions to make seemingly spontaneous protests more eventful and more provocative. That it doesn't hold press conferences makes it easy for news organizations to go all lalalalala-can't-see-you.
The traditional press prefers not to acknowledge the seriousness of the Summer of Love because if the whole thing blows up, it will make Trump's demands for order look wise and help his re-election campaign. (Is-it-good-or-bad-for-Trump is the decision rule in what is news just now.) And is it not rather likely that the whole CHAZ-CHOP thing has been orchestrated by a man or group behind the curtain and not by the rap star/leader we see in television interviews?
Think about it: If you are an anarchist who has studied Lenin and wants to build support to overthrow the government, which oppressor would you prefer to see elected in November -- Donald Trump, who blusters against looting and violence, or a null-set squish like Joe Biden who doesn't believe in anything?
I'm not seeing any links to something substantive that I requested. Am I missing something?
Okay, I'll ask: what is the burden of proof that you seek?
And, Inga: the article referenced by Prof. Althouse @ 7:24 indicates that 4 (four) people who self identified as far right have been arrested. Given the scope of the destruction, I think four people is a damned small number.
I live in the Portland area. We have regular events at which Antifa is an identified antagonist. How do those reporters come to that conclusion, I wonder? When they get arrested, it's not because they are "Antifa", it's because they're committing criminal acts.
From St. Paul paper, "Linwood Michael Kaine, who attended Carleton College and lives in Minneapolis, and four others were arrested on suspicion of second-degree riot after the “March 4 Trump” rally in St. Paul. A sixth person was cited for disorderly conduct. Counterprotesters — some with apparent anti-fascist and anarchist leanings — clashed with Trump supporters in the Capitol rotunda after they disrupted the permitted event with air horns, whistles and chants. Video of the scene shows a black-clad person wearing ski goggles lobbing the smoke bomb, which allegedly struck a 61-year-old woman. She was uninjured, police said."
Doe4sn't anyone remember this??
“But, you really think that a guy named "Carillo" is involved in a white-supremacist organization?”
You’re getting hung up on the white supremacy thing. The boogaloos have factions within the movement. Some are racists, some are not, some are anti government, all are 2nd Amendment proponents and have mostly right wing leanings. Time to get your heads out of your asses. You’re so blinded by your hatred for the left that you can’t even read the articles one after another that have proof that these guys are right wing extremists?
I'm reminded of Northern Ireland's Gerry Adams. He came to international prominence as a spokesperson for Sinn Fein, the political wing of the Provisional Irish Republican Army. Adams has claimed since the 1970s that he was not a member of the IRA, but also refused to disassociate himself from the group.
Other members who were there in the early 1970s, the most vicious time, say that not only was Adams a member, he was commander of the Belfast brigade. This included when widowed mother of ten Jean McConville (age 37) was taken from her apartment and disappeared. Her body was finally found buried on a beach in the Republic of Ireland decades later.
McConville's crime was to have given a small amount of comfort to a wounded British soldier who lay bleeding in the hallway outside her flat. The IRA circulated rumors that she was an informer with a radio to contact British Intelligence. Exactly what information she could pass to the Brits, considering she was a depressive who never left the flat, was not provided.
The order to disappear Jean McConville had to have come from the leader of the Belfast PIRA. But because Adams would never admit his membership, he was allowed to pass into office and high circles in government.
What kind of link are you looking for?The plans to riot and destroy are not normally posted on open websites.To get onto the mailing/messaging lists for these groups you need to sign up and frequent websites like these:
https://torchantifa.org/chapters/
https://crimethinc.com/2020
Here is an antifa explaining Antifa.Lenin is good, Hitler bad.I checked in at different points, was unable to tolerate listening to the entire video - the smug was painful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwS_FMZ3nQ&t=3578s
Come on - do you actually believe protests popped up worldwide over the death of one criminal from a state most had never heard of without some sort of organization.Dozens of people don't just decide to carry human excrement to throw at the police without coordination.Antifa, BLM, Anti-globalization movement, Occupy..... all have similar goals and funding.
"Cui bono" is always a question that needs to be asked, and that applies in the case of Antifa.
The NYT & the WaPo are the heralds of the old, white, liberal Establishment. These people have made it their mission to remove Donald Trump from office for the past 3 1/2 years. They have failed miserably. Even worse, they've been dragged into supporting a zombie for the Democratic nomination. They can't object to the zombie because he's supported by the "establishment" minorities (e.g. black teachers). It looks likely that there may be another four years of the Giant Cheeto.
The moderate left has always been horribly naive about the far left, mostly because the right loathes the far left & so the moderates have to go squish to differentiate themselves. Unfortunately for the moderates, the far left hates the moderate left even more than they hate the right.
The moderate left has to downplay the Antifa connection because they just got hi-jacked by the hard left. They wanted the demonstrations to build energy among their constituents & to be the bulwark of a political wave going into the elections. Instead, the far left gave them chaos, riot, violence, and an attempted secession. It was a gift on a silver platter to Trump.
The WaPo and its ilk must downplay the liberal establishment's role in this debacle. It is, once again, yet one more indication of how stupid & fucked up they are. But, in their minds, they are brilliant. The cognitive dissonance is just too much to bear.
“ She invariably blames American Christian conservatives, boogaloo-ers and republicans.”
Never was quite sure about the definition of a “ boogaloo-ers“. Is it any patriot who opposes Marxist scum like AntiFA, who are trying to destroy this country? Is it anyone who opposes AntiFA? Republicans in general? Do you need to wear a Hawaiian shirt to belong? All my boogaloo (Hawaiian) shirts are back in AZ. They are decent at hiding concealed carry, which may have been why Inga and her buddies decided that this sort of apparel was a key indicator for being a boogaloo-er.
Earnest Prole said...
I've watched Antifa evolve since the 1999 Seattle WTO riots. In the Bay Area the movement has absorbed those who fancy themselves Marxist-Leninist-Maoists; they would show up at events led by the old civil-rights nonviolent left and hijack them, threading violence to anyone who objected or attempted to photograph them. An essential element of Antifa's existence is that, like the Mob in its heyday, Antifa does not exist. So when a journalist says "There has not yet been a single confirmed case in which someone who self-identifies as antifa led violent acts at any of the protests across the country," they are either being willfully obtuse or they fear for their safety. No genuine mobster in the heyday of the Mob would publicly self-identify as a mobster. The same is true of Antifa today.
Exactly, plus they restrict their activity to safe zones, like Portland or Seattle. The authorities, as in Berkeley, do not arrest them or quickly release them if accidently arrested for hitting someone with a bike lock, for example.
Inga- do you think black people and BLM are working with Right Wing Extremists to riot and burn major cities?
Do you think the Boogaloos boys have manipulated black people into doing their bidding?
Antifa is maybe best understood as shorthand for a new lifestyle of violent leftist/anarchists, including those who roam around the country. They're thugs but not just thugs. Why do I believe they're generally identifiable as of the left? Because of the nature of the boisterously disgusting online world that cheers them on, discusses tactics, and perfects the art of damaging critiques of Amerikkka.
By its nature it's organic and now its even more purposely decentralized and organic. They're anarchists.
I once read something making the case that the bizarre cruelties of the Holocaust emerged from a spirit of innovation in lower-ranking Nazis. Attempting to impress Hitler.
@YoungHegelian: Thanks for the link to Redneck Revolt (emphasis mine).
The history of the white working class is also one filled with collaboration with those same rich elite power holders. White working people have played the role of foot soldiers for the political and economic elite, participating in genocide and the enslavement of other peoples, and overall protectors of the ruling class.
I wonder why Hillary & Co. do not like the Deplorables.
I get the whole "correlation does not equal causation" but even crediting WaPo with being accurate, the data shows that where Antifa is, violence happens. To use one of Adams' analogies, they are the people at the back of the crowded theater who yell "Fire" then slip out when the real fun starts.
Mindreader Extraordinaire Inga: "You’re getting hung up on the white supremacy thing. The boogaloos have factions within the movement."
LOL
Its Mueller Mindreading time all over again!
Nobody Knows What Inga Knows About What Boogaloos Believe!
This almost as much fun as when Inga went into hilarious Military Exercise Expert Mode to declare a few weeks delay in a straightforward South Korea/US systems-based cyber-security/Comms connectivity exercise was a massive hit to US military readiness on the Peninsula!
Inga said... The boogaloos have factions within the movement. Some are racists, some are not, some are anti government, all are 2nd Amendment proponents.
You are priceless Inga. Don't ever change.
BTW, its hot here and I am wearing a Hawaiian shirt. Maybe I will put on an Antifa mask and burn down a store, just for kicks.
Boogaloos, Boogaloos Boogaloos!
( I wanted to type Booga Booga, but was autocorrected into Boogaloos. Google is right on top of things).
No need for self identification. If the media were to release the names of those arrested we could probably find the Antifa links pretty easily. Also, it's quite possible that Antifa isn't organizing the protests. They usually come along for the ride to smash things up.
I remember like yesterday when both WAPO and NYT called Tea Partiers RACIST, and White Supremacists, and I don't remember anybody who reads them calling on them to prove it. After all, the Tea Party even cleaned up their own garbage after themselves and we can't have THAT in DC!!!! They hated Obama...not the lies and the out of control spending!!! (according to WAPO and NYT!!)
Bruce Hayden at 12:38 PM
Keep this in mind: This Leftist Tantrum Is an Information Operation and Trump Is Winning It. AntiFA, in particular, has been training at least since last summer for just this sort of action. ....
Superb comment!
Shockingly, perhaps there isn't any publicly available, media-disseminated information proving that a SELF-IDENTIFIED member of a disguised, anonymous, anarchic organization was responsible for violence and/or simple rioting. And yet anyone who has watched footage of antifa in past events can immediately identify the outfits, slogans, and behaviors that give probable cause to support that allegation. Maybe it wasn't someone who actually IS a card-carrying member of antifa who was captured on camera at the very beginning the the unrest in Minneapolis, dressed in black, wearing a balaclava and an elaborate gas mask to protect against tear gas and further disguise his face, carrying a black umbrella and a big-ass hammer, calmly walking along the entire storefront of an Autozone and methodically breaking every window as though it was his day job. Yeah, maybe that man who was dressed exactly like antifa/black block/anarchists always dress, fully-disguised as they usually are, carrying an umbrella (one of their favorite tools) and a hammer (another one of their favorite tools) deliberately breaking the windows of a national franchise (their favorite thing to do other than try to kill anyone they don't like) actually has nothing to do with antifa or its sister-organizations, and anyone who says so is just promoting slander.
Ann, very surprised that you would take this tack? Any information from the WaPo is suspicious on the surface. 'Fact Checkers' especially from a group of people who use language to state that it's "false, partly false, almost false" whatever that means. Yet, when you look how they check their conclusions you begin to doubt their creditability(citing outher Liberal Media Sources - for example). The example, is hilarious, it reminds me of "Baghdad Bob" stating "there are no American Tanks in downtown Baghdad". Yet, in the upper left corner of the 'TV Broadcast' you can see M1A1 Tanks rumbling through the street. Ann in your desire to bend over backwards for fairness you have convinced yourself that if anybody comes out with their side of the story it must be some questionable facts. Question - that's like you believing "Push Polls". Ann - it's only a point of view - facts are hard to prove in real time that's why Politicos lie all the time. By the time it's disproved the politician is on to the next subject (lie).
Here's one for Althouse:
"On Sunday night, Nikole Hannah-Jones, the lead writer of The New York Times 1619 project, encouraged her followers to read a crazy conspiracy theory that the government gave fireworks to minority communities."
For me, this way of framing the entire issue is bogus. It is not a question of the evidence for actual official Antifa "members" showing up in police arrests, etc. So, in this case, Ann, I refuse to answer the unanswerable and not very significant question you've posed. It is possible not a single actual "member" of Antifa has engaged in direct violence. But if they had I believe NO ONE could prove it. Antifa clearly exists and has been causing exactly the kind of mayhem we see now on a larger scale. And yet no one really IS a member of Antifa.
This issue is one of ideology not organized coordination. Organizations like Antifa and BLM have been promoting a practice of spontaneous rage and destruction in the name of taking apart an inherently evil capitalist, racist, patriarchal society. The destructive side of these protests reflect the total success of this ideological project - as say when whites burn down black owned stores in the name of black lives matter. That seems patently idiotic to most of us. It fits entirely with what Antifa's aim is. This is NOT random destruction by the outraged masses. Its intent is to spread a chaos that will engulf the society. It may by a fantasy and is likely doomed to go nowhere. But a very definite purpose is at work and this purpose has been nurtured by alienated radicals some of whom wind up at Antifa and others of whom wind up on the editorial staff of the NYTs. Their triggered and enraged foot soldiers do it for them. Are they members of Antifa? Even they may think they are not.
Check out an antifa twitter feed encouraging all kinds of violence and targeting individuals.
https://twitter.com/TorchAntifa
""To assert that something is true when there is no evidence of it is to lie" was a dumb comment."
Especially when there is a lot of evidence, a hundred times the evidence that exists for any competing explanation. Hell, there isn't even a competing explanation offered.
The boogaloos have factions within the movement. Some are racists, some are not, some are anti government, all are 2nd Amendment proponents and have mostly right wing leanings. Time to get your heads out of your asses. You’re so blinded by your hatred for the left that you can’t even read the articles one after another that have proof that these guys are right wing extremists?
6/22/20, 1:23 PM
Inga, you are a fucking loon if you believe this garbage.
Each of these antifa sites link to other antifa groups and other anti-capitalist pro-communist groups. Their pages openly target individuals and glorify property damage and assaults done by like minded individuals.Direct planning for events is not going to be public.There are international links. This is a world wide pro-communist movement. They just jump on the anti-racism bandwagon to gather more troops. Their ultimate goal is communism - with them of course as the new arbiters of what is allowed. Any who do not follow their guidance (since they are against laws) will be struck down using violence.
https://antifasac.blackblogs.org/
THIS is what a REAL journalist looks like....
Andy Ngo, who has actually been on the ground in Minneapolis called out your dear friends at WAPO for their lies today. Read it and weep....https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/22/wapo-gives-trump-four-pinocchios-for-true-statements-about-antifa-presence-at-george-floyd-riots-n561150
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1275091627808141315/photo/4
White working people have played the role of foot soldiers for the political and economic elite,
Ever heard of the Buffalo soldiers? Granted they were cavalry troopers.
bagoh20: "Althouse, are you drunk? There has to be a reason why the obvious becomes so hard to see for you at times."
The obvious is hard to see when it undermines your worldview.
One day, you think you are a nice, enlightened liberal living in a mostly liberal country, supporting a liberal party and nice liberal things like abortion and women's autonomy, happily parsing words to make sure everyone uses language clearly.
The next, you are observing strange things, like the nice liberal NYT publishing anti-American screeds based on obvious lies and firing editors for being insufficiently woke, and on Main Street all the stores being boarded up due to protests and even pretty pictures of art work can't quite hide the facts, and officials of the nice liberal party you would like to keep supporting saying inane things like defund the police, and in several nice liberal cities uncouth people pulling down statues that you lean toward keeping, and university presidents lamenting systemic racism even though you haven't seen any of it for years, and -- it's hard.
It's hard to see that you live in a time of cultural revolution, that the people you thought were on your side have moved far left, that those people despise who you are and what you stand for, that they wish you and the country ill, and, worst of all, that those boring deplorable cynics were right all along.
Ah, but there's no evidence Antifa was involved! No rioter self-identified as such! It's a relief. It's reassuring. It means there's no evidence that nice moderate liberals are living a lie.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/06/19/violent-antifa-activist-is-seen-in-both-portland-and-seattle-destruction-and-with-minn-ag-keith-ellison-n549793
The denouncements of property destruction from BLM, Freedom Inc etc has been DEAFENING!
How does this post not get caught on this burr:
"As always, the burden of proof rests with the speaker — and the administration has provided no evidence, only assertions that it has evidence. Trump earns Four Pinocchios."
After fellating themselves for nearly four years about the evidence-free Russia conspiracy, giving wide berth and lending monumental credibility to the likes of Schiff & Co., who routinely "provided no evidence, only assertions that [they] have evidence", without any impetus to earn them a Pinnochio or four, who in their right mind puts any faith in this fact-checking charade anymore?
Actually, I too got impulsive about this and take back my previous comments.
Ann - what about this back in 2018 from Congress?
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10839/2
Not sure the false rape analogy works since if an antifa was falsely accused of arson, they'd try to to own it.
Paul From Minneapolis said...I once read something making the case that the bizarre cruelties of the Holocaust emerged from a spirit of innovation in lower-ranking Nazis. Attempting to impress Hitler.
--
"Halte mein Bier"
Thank goodness all this rioting is just the local ne'er do wells at work. No need for the feds to get involved.
Should the occasion arise, the Madison police will be there to watch meadehouse burn.
Inga- do you think black people and BLM are working with Right Wing Extremists to riot and burn major cities?
No
Do you think the Boogaloos boys have manipulated black people into doing their bidding?
No
The boogaloos are following their OWN agenda, they are simply hiding in plain site among the protestors.
LOL - read Matt Sablan's and Inga's posts on ANTIFA describing them as Anti-Facists and Right Wing. Really? Growing up in South America in the '50s and '60s I experienced both Left and Right Wing Fascism. It's only the Media who wants to hide or distinguish the two. But they are just opposite side of the same coin. Wiki describes "Left Wing....fascism [as defined] distinguishes itself for its intolerance of political opponents, suppression of freedom of speech and lack of respect for the democratic principles of a majority vote as well as exclusion or isolation of other democratic parties and the use of violence..."
This perfectly describes both Marx [theorist] and Lenin [actual action] and other practitioners on the Left - Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pol Pot, etc., versus Hitler, Franco, Somoza, etc. You will never convince me that there's a difference between a Left or Right Wing dictatorship.
While Trumpists have been obsessing over Antifa, the boogaloos have been busy organizing. An in depth investigation... which is probably wasted on most people here.
The Boogaloo Movement Is Not What You Think
“LOL - read Matt Sablan's and Inga's posts on ANTIFA describing them as Anti-Facists and Right Wing.”
Antifa is not right wing. I’ve never said so. They are far left extremists.
Boogaloo are right wing/ libertarian extremists.
inga-
Thanks for the answer.
So it is indeed the BLM protesters doing the burning and rioting? Or do you think Antifa is there, too.
Ask Andy Ngo about that, Meg.
You can't trust Gno's account. He's a head trauma survivor...
I think you may have me confused for someone else hstad; I don't think I ever said Antifa was rightwing.
Thanks for the link above. So... how did the WaPo screw up THIS gloriously? https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1275091627808141315
The boogaloos are following their OWN agenda, they are simply hiding in plain site among the protestors.
Inga is seeing Boogaloos everywhere. I had better donate my Hawaiian shirts.
Good, what a fool !
the far left hates the moderate left even more than they hate the right
During the Oscar Grant protesters in Oakland in 2009, Antifa threatened nonviolent demonstrators by telling them when the Revolution went down they would murder liberals first.
Read it and weep.
If you mean Ann...you must be new here.
Note to Althouse: I’ve always understood why engaging the New York Times is culturally important, but your belief that it should determine what exists and does not exist in our politics is surprisingly naive.
"Do you think the Boogaloos boys have manipulated black people into doing their bidding?
The Very Forgetful Inga: "No"
Inga has explicitly stated that the violence is coming from right-wing agitators starting the trouble and getting the peaceful and angelic lefties all stirred up. She now clearly realizes those earlier lies aren't going to cut it so its time to change the narrative and pretend history began again this morning.
Hi Ann,
See Andy Ngo's tweet about just one example, Amelia Joan Shamrowicz, arrested for arson in Portland. Four pictures, nicely juxtaposed. You will like it.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1275091627808141315
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1274976994493468673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Andy Ngo would be more than willing to educate you as to the propaganda Washington Post "fact-checkers".
key words: Self identified... confirmed.
This sounds like the press covering for the upper class antifa types and blaming the violence on the black community.
I have enjoyed reading your viewpoint and blog for some years now, I like to read views from different parts of the country and from a variety of people.
But no longer.
To say that Trump and Cotton are spreading erroneous memes is so ridiculous it amounts to willfully ignoring the facts.
Hope you stay well, I can not read this kind of drivel any longer.
In case anybody isn't going to click Matthey Sablan's link to Andy Ngo, he screenshots something from an Oregon court from early June stating the person they are charging claimed to be a member of Antifa.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/22/wapo-gives-trump-four-pinocchios-for-true-statements-about-antifa-presence-at-george-floyd-riots-n561150
"libertarian extremists"
omfg this is the best belly laugh all day!
@oxymoron
How does a philosophy based on respect for others bodies, minds, and property, manifest extremely....
.....too much Liberty?(gasp)
No Antifa here, ain't nobody here but us chickens. I am reminded of a assembly of my combined Jr,Sr High school when the principal bragged that we didn't have any hoodlums with DA haircuts in our school. There were at least three guys with duck's ass (DA) hair cuts in the front row. Before Fonzee, that style was strictly a hoodlum marker--Somebody who would steal your hubcaps and siphon your gas tank.
MK: "Inga is seeing Boogaloos everywhere."
The boogaloos are the replacements for the non-existent russian collusionists.
Probably already brought to light.
There are so few racists, they don't show up on any graph. Self identified racists.
Here’s the link you requested Ann A....
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/22/wapo-gives-trump-four-pinocchios-for-true-statements-about-antifa-presence-at-george-floyd-riots-n561150
Boogaloo are right wing/ libertarian extremists.
6/22/20, 4:47 PM
And Inga shows, once again, that she is too dumb to understand the meaning of words. She has no idea what "libertarian" means.
Ah, yes, those wild-eyed "Reason" readers running around in their Hawaiian shirts creating havoc!
Inga is truly a buffoon.
cacimbo-
I was going to link to the Sacramento antifa site as well.
On the "Merch" page, they say:
Antifa Sacramento is now selling merch! Every cent we raise goes directly to our work. This includes hosting events, funding our national network, covering material costs, helping with medical bills for those injured doing anti-fascist work, and providing legal/support/bail funds for those facing state repression.
So by their own admissions:
They are a national organization whose branches coordinate funding;
They expect violence when they show up;
They expect to be arrested.
Based on that posting, I'd assume that Antifa is associated with any rioting here in Sac.
Ms Althouse - you are being willfully naive, and hiding behind a rhetorical trick. None of us are persuaded by you, even if you claim to be un-persuaded by most of the arguments in this thread. Do you really not understand that the NYT and WaPo will not cover stories that violate their narrative? They could win countless Pulitzers covering events that violate their narrative, but the won't ever dig into a story that might make Democrats look bad.
Inga! I see that the Boogaloo Boys are marching down your street! They are marching to your house! You had better hide under your bed.
“libertarian extremists
omfg this is the best belly laugh all day!“
The so-called boogaloo boys movement might be more accurately described as a loosely connected online community, with no formal organization, leadership or coherent set of beliefs. Almost everything about the far-right ideology — starting with the name, spawned from online jokes about a 1982 break-dancing film — bubbled up through meme-sharing on social media platforms such as Facebook and YouTube and more obscure sites such as 4chan and Gab.
The igloos and Hawaiian shirts that boogaloo supporters sport in public are drawn from memes riffing on the name, which sounds similar to “big igloo” and “big luau,” and refers to a civil war that “boogaloo bois,” as they are also known, imagine in the near future. One uniting theme behind the movement is a belief in and support for that civil war against a tyrannical government. Beyond that, the boogaloo ideology is flexible.
Many of those who claim an allegiance to the far-right movement, which is made up largely of young white men, frequently carry rifles and espouse a need to defend the Second Amendment. According to the Anti-Defamation League, some boogaloo adherents oppose government overreach and advance libertarian ideas embraced by militias and gun-rights groups; others openly spread white supremacist rhetoric and encourage a race war.
”libertarian ideas”...
“Participants in the boogaloo movement often wear Hawaiian shirts along with military fatigues to identify themselves at protests, such as this 2020 VCDL Lobby Day gun rights demonstration in Richmond, Virginia on January 20, 2020.[1][2]
The boogaloo movement, adherents to which are often referred to as boogaloo boys or boogaloo bois, is a loosely organized American far-right extremist movement.[8] Participants generally identify as a libertarian citizen-militia and say they are preparing for, or seek to incite, the "boogaloo": a second American Civil War that will overthrow the United States government .[3][9][10][11] While use of the term has been found on the fringe imageboard website 4chan since 2012, it did not come to widespread attention until late 2019.[1] Adherents use the term (including variations, so as to avoid social media crackdowns) to refer to violent uprisings against the federal government or left-wing political opponents, often anticipated to follow government confiscation of firearms.”
Wiki
Inga- do you think Antifa is involved in the riots, vandalism, and statue destruction that is happening ? Or do you think it is all BLM protesters?
I hate to be rude to our hostess, but it is plain that she has chosen ignorance as a lifestyle for the current period in our history. She is not ignorant of the situation, she knows full well who and what Antifa are and what they have done, and will continue to do, but she has to pretend to be ignorant in order to keep her worldview intact. Sad way to go out, Prof., very sad.
St Johns Church vandalized by leftists again tonight.
According to Inga, everything was peaceful until a shadowy hawaiian shirt wearing fella showed up and whispered something into the ears of the innocent protesters who then proceeded to vandalize the church.
Leftists have demanded the immediate shuttering of all Tommy Bahama stores as well as an immediate investigation into Luau's and the roasting of delicious whole hogs wrapped in banana leaves and cooked over hot coals buried in a large pit.
Large open pits have also been declared racist as well since they are far too representative of what marxist governments have to offer their people: Nothing.
Self described antifa calling for more armed people in the CHAZ
https://twitter.com/Darrenleeander1/status/1271273796901588992
So, that answers Althouse's demand. She will either ignore this or up her demand to independent proof the claim is true.
That is why I asked for a standard of evidence. Goalpost anchors.
I don't get why Ann is promoting the gaslighting of the WaPo trying to erase the presence of ANTIFA from the riots. I a bit of searching reveals their involvement.
Criminal records may not be the best way of gauging Antifa's involvement given that many left-wing officials refuse to prosecute the rioters.
Inga, just like the SPLC, just like other hate group trackers, even in government, believes there is such a thing as "The Boogaloo Movement". News flash- "The Boogaloo Movement" is nothing more than a figment of their imagination. There are right wing militias forming. Don't ask me how I know. They have nothing to do with the "The Boogaloo Movement". They're reactive, planning for what happens after The Boogaloo happens. If and when it does. The Boogaloo is an idea. It's the opening day of the Next Civil War. Which will, if it starts, be started by leftists, Democrats, just like the last one. "The Boogaloo Movement", that is, the people who want a Boogaloo, will be out in force that first night. And most will be dead by morning. People who want "The Boogaloo" are losers and misfits, and there's a huge overlap between them and the Incel Movement- another collection of losers and misfits. I just wonder how big an overlap the Venn Diagram would be.... "The Boogaloo Movement" is neither right nor left wing, nor anti or pro-government, nor anything else. It's a bunch of misfits and losers who'll revel in the violence of the first night, and if they live through it, go into hiding the next day.
The left will be the ones who start the Civil War. There'll be no winners. What comes afterwards is up for grabs. There's constant wargaming going on as to how it proceeds. Living in a city at the start will likely decrease your survival odds.
Criminal records may not be the best way of gauging Antifa's involvement given that many left-wing officials refuse to prosecute the rioters.
@Inga - by now, you just look silly obsessing about boogaloo boys, or whatever. Many of us here very likely spend much more time than you do talking and maybe even socializing with the people on the right. And we just don’t see it, at all. People I know who wear Hawaiian shirts do so either to hide being overweight, or to hide a concealed firearm (loose fitting tailless shirts are perfect for that). Fatigues usually identify military veterans. We have a lot of them here in NW MT, so men not wearing jeans, are wearing fatigues. Plus, fatigues are typically better than jeans at hiding concealed carry firearms, carried IWB. I carry OWB, so jeans are fine. I tend to wear vests, so don’t need a tailless shirt, but thanks to your boogaloo nonsense, I may start wearing my Hawaiian shirts instead when I get back to AZ this fall.
This Gatestone piece on Antifa is worthwhile. It's part two, but you don't need to read part one which is mainly about Europe.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/16149/antifa-history-part-2
As to why "evidence" is so hard to come by and Boogaloo distractions abound:
"They're coming from other cities. That cost money. They didn't do this on their own. Somebody's paying for this.... What Antifa is doing is they're basically hijacking the black community as their army. They instigate, they antagonize, they get these young black men and women to go out there and do stupid things, and then they disappear off into the sunset." — Bernard Kerik, former commissioner of the New York City Police Department.
I have to add this. I am very tired of the photos of propaganda artwork on boarded up stores, stores whose destruction the artwork is intended to legitimize. It might be worth discussing if the focus is more fully on the stores, not the plywood.
Post a Comment