"And for those sympathetic to a growing movement, deciding whether to attend protests has been complicated: Some people have avoided them entirely, reasoning that the chance of contracting the coronavirus in a crowd is too high. Others have joined despite the risks.... No one has studied the precise dynamics of how the virus may be transmitted under the mix of conditions that prevail at mass protests. And because of delays between exposure to the virus and the start of symptoms, and then hospitalizations and deaths, the impact of the protests on virus spread will not be known for several weeks.... Yelling, shouting and singing can increase how far those droplets are projected. Crowds and the length of time an uninfected person is near someone who is infected also increase the risk of transmission.... Black people were already suffering from a disproportionate number of coronavirus infections; now many members of their communities are protesting the death of Mr. Floyd.... [P]ublic health experts emphasized that police violence against black people in America also represents a public health crisis."
From "Protests Draw Shoulder-to-Shoulder Crowds After Months of Virus Isolation/Much of the country stayed inside, separated, as a way to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Now protests are creating crowds, threatening a resurgence" (NYT).
I would add that the protests have changed the politics of emerging from the lockdown. There had been a partisan split, with those on the left demanding far more caution and hesitation and those on the right stressing freedom and getting back to work. But with the protests, many people on the left wanted to get right out there into the streets, into the crowds, and they just did it. Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety. That mixed up the politics very quickly and very thoroughly.
I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing. And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.
141 comments:
The NY Slimes fear that no "second wave" will appear.
I share Althouse's hopes, but then again I'm not part of the Biden campaign.
“I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing. And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.”
Hear, hear! Wonderfully stated.
Think of it as a voluntary massive experiment to test whether the virus spreads outdoors.
So far all the evidence suggests that it does not.
However, even if there is no spike in two weeks, the summer camps will stay closed and liberals will insist upon extending the lockdown. The September state fairs will stay cancelled.
I might be wrong, but I am never wrong.
I haven't heard anyone on the Right start to take the other side of "Staying Safe". The only thing on the Right that is new is pointing out the hypocrisy of the Left's changed position on it.
Who among the anti-lockdown right are saying the protestors should be more cautious?
What I'm hearing is simply that the hypocrisy of the media is showing.
Again
"There had been a partisan split, with those on the left demanding far more caution and hesitation and those on the right stressing freedom and getting back to work."
Well, the real partisan split was about whether government has the right to abuse its power in the first place--with progs, of course, favoring maximum coercion with minimal justification.
"But with the protests, many people on the left wanted to get right out there into the streets, into the crowds, and they just did it."
Proving, as if proof were needed, that the clampdowns and lockdowns were prog theater, the better to control the citizenry and increase government power. As the Universal Theory of Progressive Instrumentalism holds, even a virus is a tool.
"Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety. That mixed up the politics very quickly and very thoroughly."
"Maybe"? Who? What do we care?
"I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing."
Well, that has been clear for quite a while. Of course, progs know it, as they are showing by their actions.
"And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light."
You are so nice. Solutions for what exactly?
The only way to solve the problem of progs refusing to maintain order and encouraging lawlessness is to vote the bums out, while we still have elections. Which side are you on, Althouse?
I don't think this will cause a resurgence- being outside in the sunlight isn't dangerous, nor is it dangerous virus-wise at night either.
I wouldn't worry about the virus. The speed at which the concerns of spread by pro-lockdown leaders and supporters was abandon is evidence enough it was all overblown, nefarious, political bs once again by Democrats. Do they actually believe anything they do?
Look at Madison. Obsessively pro-lockdown, but cant protect their own town. Everyone in town appointed by and elected liberal. Waukesha - anti-lockdown. Peaceful protests. Cops prepared. Knelt with protesters. Visible, armed business owners on the streets downtown Waukesha. No looting. No broken glass. No tear gas. No Arson. No rubber bullets fired. And they won't go their again. Message sent. Message received.
I think Waukesha is willing to come to Madison and take care of business for a mercenary consulting fee.
[P]ublic health experts emphasized that police violence against black people in America also represents a public health crisis."
No it's not, hence no link to any of those "experts".
by Julie Bosman and Amy Harmon
Oh that Amy Harmon, author of many anit-white racist screeds at the NYT. She's probably the "public health expert" they referred to since she's anti-science in addition to being anti-white and gets prizes for combining the two.
[P]ublic health experts emphasized that police violence against black people in America also represents a public health crisis."
One thing I wish public health experts would have learned from their COVID-19 mistakes is that they should maybe concentrate on disease and stop using "public health" to refer to other people's behavior that they want to control.
But with the protests, many people on the left wanted to get right out there into the streets, into the crowds, and they just did it. Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety.
This statement oozes with the image of statues oozing paint. Which people on the right? There were people on the right wanting to point out the hypocrisy of the left. Mist on the right were questioning the validity of the 'science' or the cost/benefit of telling us all to stay home...
All of the models of the spread of covid-19 are wrong.
In my state, the stay-at-home order was obeyed pretty rigorously for about two weeks (until the second week in April). Then people started getting sloppy. There was more unnecessary travel, people became less rigorous about wearing a mask and maintaining social distance.
And as people followed the guidelines less rigorously, the number of hospitalizations and deaths plummeted.
If you close all the parks, and the only communal spaces still open are stores, you get crowded stores.
I have not heard of anyone catching covid-19 at a store.
What we will learn from all of this is that much/most of the lockdown was not about public health, or ventilators (remember those?) or protecting the vulnerable. It was what it is always about for leftists – control. They got to be on TV, bossing people around in the short run, and in the long run making it more likely that they and those on their side will get even more control.
Never forget that, that they crave control, and once they get control, you get the worst of the 20th century, now with 21st century communication and efficiency.
NYT really needs to sort out its priorities.
And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos
The peaceful demonstrators probably do outnumber the agents of chaos, but it only takes one or two chaotic agents to foment trouble. They act as catalysts. That's why it is crucial for law enforcement to enforce the peace. Or the peaceful demonstrators need to do a better job of policing their own numbers and only inviting people they have vetted to their protest.
I think your hopes are likely to be realized--transmission is primarily an indoor event; you have a lot more leeway to be careless when you are outside. Also, very few people actively want their own communities destroyed and sentiment, never in favor of the riots (outside of some media outlets), is and will continue to turn against the rioters even as people struggle to keep alive the causes that the riots purport to be in support of.
New York City's public health director just tweeted that if there's a spike in virus cases there in two weeks, it's because of racism. Can't make this stuff up.
https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1268159721468559360?s=19
I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious
I hope these assholes take us most of the way to herd immunity.
In order for the virus to spread due to protests to a large degree:
- Someone in some stages of symptomatic infection must be present
- They must not be wearing a mask
- They must spread it out in the open air with other protesters often wearing masks
No question is my mind the extended draconian lock downs resulted in the masses in the streets-
"Racism" is as good excuse as any to vent and seize back your freedom, as angrily and violently as you'd like.
If, after all this open air non social distancing looting/rioting/peaceful demonstration there is no spike in coronavirus infections--a bunch of politicians are going to have egg on their faces. And the rest of us will feel like chumps for listening to these yahoos.
"And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos"
Pollyana what if they don't? Then what?
Thank God they didn't protest at the beach.
Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety.
I don't see much of this. I see many people pointing out that the hysterics comments over the last week show their previous assertions were politically driven.
Amanda Mull
It is rose-colored glasses time. How did you get an advanced copy of the next Peggy Noonan column?
I don't think anyone on the right was influenced by the antics of the protesters and their allies, the looting classes. I doubt anyone who was ready to get on with life thought much of anything about it, other than "Boy, those lefties sure changed their minds fast. They were so sure, just this morning." The highlight of all this is the silly letter from 500 public health officials saying get out there and protest.
Ignorance is Bliss said...
"Who among the anti-lockdown right are saying the protestors should be more cautious?
What I'm hearing is simply that the hypocrisy of the media is showing.
Again"
This exactly. I'm hearing a stream of comments deriding the politicians that pushed the lockdown and are now trapped into supporting the rioters.
I would add that the protests have changed the politics of emerging from the lockdown. There had been a partisan split, with those on the left demanding far more caution and hesitation and those on the right stressing freedom and getting back to work. But with the protests, many people on the left wanted to get right out there into the streets, into the crowds, and they just did it. Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety. That mixed up the politics very quickly and very thoroughly.
This is bullshit Ann and you know it.
1. This showed that the left never really believed COVID-19 was serious and were only interested in control and destroying the economy.
2. The people who supported freedom have not changed our position at all. We have been consistent through this. It is just that you refuse to respect us and our position.
3. Not a single person was hurt when we protested asking for freedom.
4. The leftists are violent shitheads up and down the line.
The People on "The right" wanted to reopen things. I don't remember anyone demanding crowds of thousands, without masks, yelling and screaming slogans.
Its the MSM who have switched viewpoints 180 degrees. When people were protesting the lockdown it was "You're killing people! Go home and be locked down".
Now with the racial protesters that MSM doesn't give a fuck about CV-19 or "Killing people" by not wearing masks or staying 6 feet apart. IOW, the whole thing was a SHAM, and we should start re-opening NOW! There's obviously no danger, or all the Medicos and the MSM "experts" would be denouncing the unsafe protesters.
BTW, Trump has cancelled the NC Republican Convention because the Governor can't guarantee the convention can be held with 2,000 people and no masks. This same Governor has said NOTHING about protests violating the curfew and the CV-19 regulations.
We have to locked down, but the protesters can roam at will.
The NY Slimes fear that no "second wave" will appear.
They're struggling to decide the better Choice: pathogenic contagion ("Her Choice") or social contagion ("her Choice"). COEXIST?
And you missed the picture of biden kneeling AND wearing a mask in the AME church. Its classic Democrat. I hope Trump uses it in a TV commercial and contrasts it with him striding to the Church across the street, bible in hand.
"Waukesha - anti-lockdown. Peaceful protests. Cops prepared. Knelt with protesters. Visible, armed business owners on the streets downtown Waukesha. No looting. No broken glass. No tear gas. No Arson. No rubber bullets fired. And they won't go their again. Message sent. Message received."
Inga benefits every day by living in a red county and being surrounded gun-loving Trumpists.
She should take a knee and thank her fine Republican neighbors for keeping her safe.
People need to "protest" by going back to the closed parks and beaches. Just say keeping them closed is RACIST, and you'll be OK.
"Racism" is as good excuse as any to vent
The cues are nuanced but progressive (e.g. cumulative): diversity breeds adversity.
The hypocrisy plays out in real time. Voting stations cause the virus to spread. Demonstrations do not or are, anyway, worth the risk. Demonstrators are agents of change. Voters are not.
Yeah, COVID-19 is what I'm worrying about right now.
You've got an economy in shambles, you've got fascists rioting, looting, and killing, and you've got no leadership from any Democrat mayor or governor in the country.
Yeah, I'm worried about getting sick.
Cm'on man!
The hypocrisy plays out in real time. Voting stations cause the virus to spread. Demonstrations do not or are, anyway, worth the risk. Demonstrators are agents of change. Voters are not.
Whether Planned Pathogen or chaos ("evolution"), observation from Italy is that the virus has progressed and is only marginally viable.
The "demonstrations" have exposed the hypocrisy, and the pure evil, of the left. The lockdown wasn't about the virus, but more about the left having control over the movements of people and abrogating their rights. Control and using fear and the willingness of good people to avoid making others ill.
Arrest people for getting their hair cut. Put business owners in jail and destroy their businesses. Fine and arrest people for going to church. For walking in a park with their children. Wanting everyone to cower in fear and stay home. Do what the benevolent leaders tell us to do. CONTROL. Taming and fleecing the sheep.
On the other hand...when the left decides that it is good to riot, loot, maim and kill...well then....that is just fine. Let the rioters have THEIR rights. Screw everyone else.
I would like to think that everyone learns a lesson from this, but I also never underestimate the stupidity of people and their ability to surrender themselves to authority, even at the expense of their own safety and well being.
As James Comey might say, killing your grandparents by bringing them the Coronavirus you caught while throwing bricks through windows of black-owned businesses is the price you pay to live up to your own higher loyalty.
NJ restricts outside gatherings to 25 people or less.
I guess that's why there were no riots in NJ.
I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing.
We're moving into the post-riot rationalization phase.
I think what we're supposed to learn is the protests and riots stopped because left-leaning people care about public health, and not that authorities cracked down on the hooligans or the public got tired of their behavior.
Order, albeit uncharacterized and computationally unwieldy, in chaos (e.g. "evolution", life). That said, the latest guidance from Wuhan is 3 m distancing, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle. Don't forget the goggles. The eyes are a window to contagion.
What Yancey said.
The righties just pointed and laughed at the 180 turnaround.
I don't think the right really switched back to caution. They just pointed out the hypocrisy.
OK, where is the Professor? Trump wrote that and hacked it in to her Blog.
I guess this means no statues will be erected to Grouchy and Scarf Woman after all. Time has returned for the MSM to peddle Trump is Tyrant and the Global Warming Deaths are coming again.
Who on the Right reversed their position on lockdowns and social distancing, other than sarcastically and to point out the hypocrisy of the Left? Names or it didn't happen.
There will be no spike in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, from Covid, at least. We've already seen a spike in hospitalizations and deaths from the riots.
I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing. And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.
Dear heavens, never mix Xanax and Chablis. Spending precious hours of your retirement sounding like Inga is not good.
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said... [hush][hide comment]
Ignorance is Bliss said...
"Who among the anti-lockdown right are saying the protestors should be more cautious?
What I'm hearing is simply that the hypocrisy of the media is showing.
Again"
This exactly. I'm hearing a stream of comments deriding the politicians that pushed the lockdown and are now trapped into supporting the rioters.
6/3/20, 11:15 AM
Well sure, and to the "average prog" it all still makes sense!
Churches MUST remain close AND these "peaceful" protests about systemic racism and police brutality (and rioting and looting and stomping of innocents and killing of innocents & police) MUST be allowed to continue! Cause reasons!
If one is not quite 100% all there mentally, this all makes perfect sense! For good measure throw in a dash of "beaten wife syndrome" with lefties all clutching their pearls wondering what THEY did do or what did they not do enough of to help cause all this!
Never fear. If they need a spike in 2 weeks they will just invent one.
Easy Peasy.
The next deadly resurgence will be the Trump is a Russian Agent hoax. Rosenstein can’t quit lying to cover up his part in the attempted Presidential Coup d’Etat. So he acts like it may still be proven anytime now. A truly amazing liar. Every word he utters is a lie.
Paul Zrimsek said...
[[P]ublic health experts emphasized that police violence against black people in America also represents a public health crisis."]
One thing I wish public health experts would have learned from their COVID-19 mistakes is that they should maybe concentrate on disease and stop using "public health" to refer to other people's behavior that they want to control.
This is exactly right.They can't do their real jobs since they are too busy on political issues, which they do specifically because that's what left wing government rewards. It's so bad they can't do their actual jobs even we we're in the middle of a pandemic. Intelligent people would recognize this and stop electing left wing governments, but we have too many IngaFreders for that. So instead we need to eliminate political activists positing as public health officials.
Podcast Discussion
People on the right don't change their views just to disagree with the other side. That's a lefty thing, so you won't hear them suddenly calling for new virus mitigation, except as a call out on the lefty hypocrisy.
Even with the daily education we provide on her blog, Althouse still doesn't seem to understand the incredibly simple and straight forward philosophy of the right. I would even say that this blog is one of the best places to get that education. It also provides a reader with the daily failures of the lefties here, which is the other side of that education.
My hope is that the demonstrations (and the responses by mayors and governors to same) will eliminate all further fears of attending baseball games.
What happens when the protesters find out that Minnesota doesn't have a death penalty?
You know what spurs fears in the leftist media? The sun rising every day and then it suddenly disappearing at night.
A week or two after these closely packed “protests”, we should be seeing a major upsurge in Wuhan virus cases among white supremacists and Russian agents.
Are we still all in this together?
Because it doesn't seem like we're all in this together.
I am Laslo.
"Even with the daily education we provide on her blog, Althouse still doesn't seem to understand the incredibly simple and straight forward philosophy of the right."
Gotta keep up that "cruel neutrality."
There never, ever, were "peaceful" protests: Protests emerged during midday on May 26, the day after Floyd's death.[3] Hundreds of people marched to the Minneapolis Police Department's 3rd Precinct police station to voice their frustration with the Minneapolis police.[4][5] The protest turned violent as the 3rd Precinct became vandalized with spray paint,[6] and police squad cars had rocks thrown at them.[7] In what appeared to be a standoff around 8:00 p.m. CDT that night, police in riot gear fired beanbag rounds and chemical agents at protesters, who threw water bottles at them.[8]
More virus and mayhem and destruction? Isn't that a bonus for the democratics?
Some people have avoided them entirely, reasoning that the chance of contracting the coronavirus in a crowd is too high.
Bullshit. The VAST majority of those 'sympathetic to the movement' avoided them for the same reason they avoided the last 50 such protests: normal people don't take to the streets unless genuinely moved to do so.
You cannot cheer the end of violence, when you deny who is committing that violence, Inga.
Here's a simple truth: There are more looters and arsonists among the peaceful protesters than there are overt bigots among the various police departments. I don't think anyone--not even Trump--can dare mention this truth out loud.
No news about the murders caused by these peaceful protesters.. No pictures of deployments that have been defaced or crashed..... This is the left tearing down the economy and the media yawns.
The only fears spurred are in Lansing, MI, NYC, Springfield, IL, and Trenton, NJ.
The rest of us have already gotten on with our lives.
"I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing."
Yes, and let's also draw the relevant corollary; all that crap we've been hearing from the MSM about "Science" was just guesses some hoser made up. The fact that certain kinds of science can make accurate predictions in certain narrowly restricted domains that have been very extensively studied does not mean that "Science" provides a viable method for predicting novel phenomena.
If you have a "mostly peaceful" demonstration with 1000 people in the streets and 90% are indeed peaceful, that still leaves 100 bottle-throwers, arsonists, and looters who still need to be dealt with. And the 90% are serving - wittingly or otherwise - as shields and screens.
Nothing "rational" happens in human affairs unless it is the result of a painful conflict. A positive empirical state that evolves in conflict and competition, a tactic that provides an advantage, building on others, or more likely simply that which suffices to crush the other side.
And an eventual stable state need not be "higher" than the previous state. Indeed, history predicts a lower stable state as a result of civil conflict. Higher states are achieved through peace, though a decadent peace tends to break down, as we are seeing now. And higher states are not "rational", they are, probably, actually, the gimcrack frippery of a social surplus badly spent, in whimsy and indulgence.
Sometimes all of you can seem like such Pollyannas.
Well, in about 10 days we'll either have no spike and prove the pro-lockdown crowd wrong, or we'll have a mass die-off of Antifa.
A win either way if you ask me.
And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.
History teaches us that this is the least likely outcome. This go round I would say it has a slim chance of success as it does not appear that a system change is being sought. A pretext was used to implement previously designed plans to engender violence an destruction.
The fact the the offending officer is in jail and awaiting trial for murder is rarely even discussed. The rule of law is in effect and working against the man who started all of this, but that does not matter. Rule of law is not a desired outcome otherwise the arrest would be celebrated. Exemption from the rule of law is what is being sought through violence.
Until the state asserts it's authority as the defender of the rule of law the lawlessness will continue.
This does not just apply to those in the streets, but also to those that run the system. Tribalism defending those on your side no matter how badly thye act must be stamped out or the republic is going to fracture.
Seriously, can't any of you understand that this congregation of protesters and rioters is virtuous? The congregation of people protesting the lockdowns were rabble-rousers; and some of them had guns!
After dinner, instead of dessert, I've been enjoying the sweet irony of this turn of events.
My son suggests that if the police here in Oregon try to arrest us for walking on the beach, we can just say "No, it's OK, we're rioting".
AA says ...
I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.
-----------============
So do the peaceful, earnest protesters already outnumber or are you asking more to come out and overwhelm - peacefully of course - the agents of chaos?
nice use of passive here - "that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light"
I wonder why the Democrat governors have not announced their 5 stage plans for the safe and common sense opening of riots in their states.
Now that it’s acceptable to be a granny killing terrorist, Mrs Busman and myself are headed to Door County for a few days to support the bars and restaurants up there.
“Waukesha - anti-lockdown. Peaceful protests. Cops prepared. Knelt with protesters. Visible, armed business owners on the streets downtown Waukesha. No looting. No broken glass. No tear gas. No Arson. No rubber bullets fired. And they won't go their again. Message sent. Message received."
Inga benefits every day by living in a red county and being surrounded gun-loving Trumpists.”
I linked to this article yesterday or the day before in a Cafe thread. I’m very proud of the way Waukesha cops took a knee. My Waukesha County neighbors and relatives don’t approve of the way Trump has been governing during this time of unrest. Trump will lose lose votes in the suburbs of Milwaukee. White suburban women especially despise him.
BleachBit-and-Hammers: "You cannot cheer the end of violence, when you deny who is committing that violence, Inga."
Oh you missed the fun last night when Inga went All In on protecting pedophiles if it serves a lefty purpose.
On top of that, Inga decided to also praise the pedophile protector even though that "arch bishop" looted church coffers for $2.2 million...for a mansion in Atlanta.
This "arch bishop", pro-abortion and pro-selling of baby parts, then proceeded to openly lie about Trumps visit to the church and the actions taken by the Park Police.
So, in summary, a pedophile protecting stealer of church funds who supports abortion and selling of baby parts and openly lies from the pulpit is a key "moral" leader for Inga.....because of course he is.
What about MSM lefty logic settling on solution to all virus : more rioting when there is no second wave.
It seems to me that we may be devolving from a nation that was founded on the concept protecting individual rights to one assuring the primacy of group rights. And those groups will be selected, not elected.
Remember the study in The Lancet that claimed that Hydrochlorquine was ineffective and even dangerous? Well, peer reviewers have forced the reexamination of the study becuase the data used is suspect. The data came from a small company called Surgisphere.
From The Guardian:
"Surgisphere's employees have little or no data or scientific background. An employee listed as a science editor appears to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess.
The company's LinkedIn page has fewer than 100 followers and last week listed just six employees. This was changed to three employees as of Wednesday.
While Surgisphere claims to run one of the largest and fastest hospital databases in the world, it has almost no online presence. Its Twitter handle has fewer than 170 followers, with no posts between October 2017 and March 2020.
Until Monday, the "get in touch" link on Surgisphere's homepage redirected to a WordPress template for a cryptocurrency website, raising questions about how hospitals could easily contact the company to join its database."
It's nice to know that the W.H.O. and other enormous influencers of health policy, as well as the entire world media, use such rock solid evidence to effect the life and death decisions for us all. They all couldn't wait to bite at anything negative, once Trump suggested it might help.
This is the kind of science that would be used by nationalized heath care to reduce the cost of you to the system. What could go wrong?
There were three major protests in Madrid just before the outbreak in Spain. So yes, protest spread Covid-19. Though in Spain, no one would have been wearing masks. And the better weather is also a mitigating factor. So we should see some increase in cases from the US protests, but maybe not catastrophic. Time will tell.
Well, if we find out that the virus isn’t the civilization killer the mookies sold us on we can begin to regard the mookies as the economy wreckers they were from the beginning. And the Dems who spread the virus around the rest homes as mass murderers.
wendybar said...
No news about the murders caused by these peaceful protesters.. No pictures of deployments that have been defaced or crashed..... This is the left tearing down the economy and the media yawns.
6/3/20, 12:13 PM
Supposed to be monuments, not deployments....was using kindle! Sorry!
" And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.”"
Nothing will change. The rioting and looting have guaranteed that.
Nothing will change unless how we envision the police/community relationship evolves, and that includes:
1. End to qualified immunity (gives victims recompense)
2. End taxpayer-funded defense for authorities (make them pay for bad actors)
3. End to no-knock raids (which kill more whites than blacks)
4. End to police unionization (they protect bad cops)
5. Reverse militarization of police
You know, thing libertarians have been talking about for years. But all of the things above take guts and independence most party apparatchiks red or blue haven't the stomach for. For Red, they don't want to appear to be weak on crime. For Blue, they derive power from strong public unions.
As for the riots, the time to put those down was 4+ days ago. Idiot blue mayors and governors think that they're on the right side in their support of "the frustrated" and let the rabble burn down their own houses. But outside of urban enclaves, most people don't vote that way.
This twitter thread from Leon Wolf speaks my thoughts about the evilness of the lockdowns suddenly being unimportant:
https://twitter.com/LeonHWolf/status/1268168295913529344
An excerpt:
Leon Wolf
@LeonHWolf
·
I'll tell you one reason I'm especially raw today. One of my closest and dearest friends died last week. I am going to his funeral today. Thank God it's being held in Arkansas or else it probably couldn't even exist. 8/
He'll be listed on the statistics as a COVID death because he caught COVID LITERALLY WHILE LOCKED DOWN IN THE HIGH RISK AREA OF A HOSPITAL, but what killed him were complications for underlying health conditions that had him hospitalized since late March. 9/
For the last 8 weeks of his life, he lived totally alone. Even after he had already caught COVID, he was not allowed in person human contact from his friends and family, even if we signed a waiver and promised to not leave the hospital until we ourselves cleared quarantine. 10/
I'm really mad that my friend had to die feeling not only his body give up on him, but probably also the worst loneliness and isolation he'd ever known in his life. And I'm really mad for all the families of people who were not allowed to say goodbye to loved ones... 11/
==========
People died alone because we were told it was too dangerous to visit them. People went to chemo treatments alone, went to hospice alone, sat alone at home with dementia, people couldn't go to AA meetings, and one more time....people died alone because COVID was too dangerous to allow people to be together.
And suddenly it is no big deal. And that really really really is inhuman and someone needs to answer to it.
Rioting and arson = good; church attendance = bad.
For the record, I am opposed to assault, looting, and arson on general principles. It is somewhat amusing that I need to actually state this as if it was some political position.
The hypocrisy is something to behold though. If you want to protest for right-wing causes, then that is a horrible violation of the lockdown and you want to kill grandma. If you want to protest for left-wing causes, then no problems at all! Oh, and while the NYPD was letting NYC break out into riots, they had time to threaten the Hasidic Jewish community with arrest for gathering to pray.
It does seem the lockdown only applies to some people. And there is nothing more political when laws only apply to some people.
Bullshit. Only ignorant people believe the left/right virus attitude. Plenty of leftists do not believe the fatalistic virus stories. The ones who believe the super contagious story do so through their own research, whether getting info straight from CNN, or from in depth medical papers.
Plenty on the right have reached their own conclusion that the virus is very contagious, as evidenced by some long term right leaning or neutral commenters here.
Obviously the protesters do not believe it is super contagious or they would not be out there risking not only their lives, but also the lives of people living with them.
Protests throughout the world are more a result of people being locked down by their government than the death of a man in America.
For months, our "public health" experts stopped us from all celebrations - no weddings; no senior prom; no graduations (from college down to kindergarten) ; no Boy Scout/Girl Scout award ceremonies; no retirement parties; no birthday parties. All the life celebrations that uplift and create memories - cancelled. No ability to be with loved ones during their final moments on earth. Family and Community - cancelled.
Pivot quickly to telling us that the exception is. . . .protesting. But not just any protesting - nope, it's protesting against one tragic death. Protesting against lock-downs is dangerous. Trying to put food on the table - dangerous. Trying to pay bills - dangerous.
"Public Health" is now officially a joke.
What we will learn from all of this is that much/most of the lockdown was not about public health, or ventilators (remember those?) or protecting the vulnerable. It was what it is always about for leftists – control.
Don't forget that these are people whose favorite pastime is extending (or withholding, or rescinding) grants of moral privilege. I'm sure they still believe quite sincerely that it's bad for people to be out in large groups spreading the virus around. It's just that they've granted the rioters an exemption, just as they've granted them an exemption from the general rule against arson and looting.
Nothing much to add to what has already been said here. I sometimes come here to regain my sanity after watching the news or reading twitter.
I think politicians, journalists, and scientists have zero credibility going forward. Screw them all. I dare you SOB's to order us around again even if there is a virus resurgence. You're the ones who encouraged unsafe behavior with these protests, you f'g hypocrites. I'll take my own chances.
As Jesus once said about the Pharisees, "They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."
3 m distancing, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle. The risk of pathogenic spread is progressive in a climate (e.g. urban jungle) with a green house effect. Don't forget the goggles. The eyes are a window to contagion. Disinfect with a Planned Pathogen protocol to mitigate progress of the disease. That said, lay down your torches, end the witch hunts and warlock judgments, don't indulge random and planned acts of redistributive change, diversity and assault-assault. Stay safe. #BabyLivesMatter
I was supposed to be at a wedding last weekend, but it was cancelled due to the Corona Virus shut downs. One of the yoga studios where I taught had to close because they couldn't keep paying the rent without any students and without knowing when they could get back to having classes at a size that would cover costs.
These are things that have happened that nobody cares about any more.
Ah, hope. There's always hope. Until a calculating provocateur decides to extinguish hope. The approach is simple and it only involves two people. Mix into a peaceful crowd of protesters who are marching toward a waiting line of police. Bad Guy #1 fires-off 7 or 10 blank rounds from a handgun. Bad Guy #2 waits to hear the shots and then puts his electric powered bullhorn to his mouth and yells, over and over, "the cops are shooting the people!!". Riot ensues. Of course, it could get even worse if those rounds are not blanks. And the media, who have chosen sides will make sure hope is dead by describing in breathless detail how the cops are murdering people. Another name for the American middle class is "kulaks". Look what happened to them. And yes, we are all peasants in the eyes of the governing class.
Real Inga: Supporter and denier of Antifa - 'White Antifa women from the burbs' hate Trump' and of course since all white antifa women are really white supremacist boogaloos -that makes Inga a white supremacist booglaloo.
I can't help but notice a certain commenter on this board - who was gleefully wishing for sickness and death of those protesting the government lockdowns - has mysterious stayed silent while her leftist thugs do her dirty work in the streets.
As a curious intersection, I got a Medpage email blast today that included an article on some clinics in Minneapolis that were vandalized into at least temporary closure.
Their attitude was it was just property, so whatever brings justice.
Nary a mention of Covid by those medical folks.
Nancy Pelosi also decides she can no longer continue to perpetuate the tear gas lies that Inga and Howard were pushing.
Under the bus goes Inga again.....right where the pedophile protector is........
MayBee said...
These are things that have happened that nobody cares about any more.
6/3/20, 1:40 PM
Oh people care. It is just those who have an elected or paid Government responsibility to care, don't care. May they get their just deserts.
Sorry if someone mentioned it upthread, from Slate via Instapundit, just to illustrate prog BS:
"Facing a slew of media requests asking about how protests might be a risk for COVID-19 transmission, a group of infectious disease experts at the University of Washington, with input from other colleagues, drafted a collective response. In an open letter published Sunday, they write that “protests against systemic racism, which fosters the disproportionate burden of COVID-19 on Black communities and also perpetuates police violence, must be supported.”… By Tuesday afternoon, more than 1,000 epidemiologists, doctors, social workers, medical students, and other health experts had signed the letter."
AA you miss read the conservatives. My position has never changed on COVID response. I followed the experts. As little outside contact as possible. ONLY movements that are necessary. I did that to the point the experts told us. Prevent overloading the health care system, and then I went about my business, evaluating the risk to my exposure to others. So I and many liked minded people of science remembered what the experts goal was and did our part to hit that goal. Mayors and Governors of leftist leanings ignored the experts and demanded full closures until no risk existed, in contradiction to what the experts told us
Its the left that is in full "do as I say, not as I do" mode. Doing what feels good regardless of what was important 1 hour ago.
Looting is more important than Covid
and now neil ferguson admits what that doctor israel, from teva pharmaceuticals board, admitted that the lockdowns were unnecessary,
MayBee,
Can the Yoga class be on Zoom or the like?
I helped out a karate class with a setup on Zoom and according to my gear rental, been continuing for about 8 weeks.
The wedding industry certainly is hurting.
[P]ublic health experts emphasized that police violence against black people in America also represents a public health crisis."
Left unmentioned by these "public health experts" is the public health crisis of violence against black people perpetrated by other black people.
Already when I watched them they were irrevocably doomed, dying and rotting even as they went to and fro. It was inevitable.
Wells, H.G., The War of the Worlds, Chapter Eight
Thank God they didn't protest at the beach.}}}
We're at the beach, they did protest. Monday was the first day Delaware opened to permit people to go to an indoor restaurant; the restaurant owners were so psyched and then, as word came that a protest was planned for that evening, they just. Gave. Up. Boarded their windows and gave up.
Fortunately, so far, it was a very tame affair. But it still shut down town and the shopping centers.
Yeah, Inga, I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse of Waukesha county.
I do too, since I have a friend who lives in Muskego. She went to a bar there the night Waukesha opened for business. People were chanting "Fuck Tony Evers!"
“I hope what we learn is that the virus is not that contagious and not that dangerous or that in any case, for whatever reason, it is withdrawing. And I hope that the peaceful, earnest protesters outnumber and overwhelm the agents of chaos and that some rational, practical, constructive solutions can come to light.”
What, no drum circle? No Kumbaya? If you're going to get all sappy about this, you might as well go full Monte.
I'm sayin right out now. Like the 60s, the bulk of the "protesters" are lookin for a hook up. Nothin like a meaningful virtue signal to fire up the hormones. Mostly lookin for that Hot Monkey Love the libs all crave.
Whatever your opinion of the protests, one thing is certain.
THERE IS NO POINT TO CONTINUED LOCKDOWNS.
Period.
Sure, batten down the nursing homes just in case, maybe.
But after this kind of massive movement, the horse has definitely left the barn (if there was any question of it before, which there should have been).
No real epidemiologist would state that there is any use to locking things down after a week of this.
Period
Open everything up. Large groups, small groups, dining, sports, it's done.
Agents of chaos are not stopped by thoughts, prayers, feelings, exhortations or righteousness. They are stopped by force. The use of force at the opening of this preplanned nationwide violence would have saved a lot of lives, from COVID and from rioting.
Agents of chaos are not stopped by thoughts, prayers, feelings, exhortations or righteousness. They are stopped by force. The use of force at the opening of this preplanned nationwide violence would have saved a lot of lives, from COVID and from rioting.
Crowds cause the spread of the virus.
If you don't shelter in place you are going to kill Granny.
Minorities are more prone to death from the virus.
The left is supporting the protests.
The left wants to kill black Grannies!
Bagoh2o: The fake anti-hydroxychloroquine Lancet peer review article was based on data a scam company who is trying to push their own anti-viral patent. They duped/paid? doctors from Harvard and elsewhere to publish. The company will share their raw data after journal editors sign NDA's. This is a perfect example of corporate capitalist for profit patent medecine, not single payer medicare for all socialistic wet dream utopia.
Nancy Pelosi also decides she can no longer continue to perpetuate the tear gas lies that Inga and Howard were pushing.
Yeah, ya know what? President of United States, whether Trump, Obama, Clinton, Johnson,Nixon or Carter can go wherever he wants. If it takes smoke bombs, tear gas, nightsticks or bullets. The office bigger than anyone occupying it.
Well, jadub, I'll go full Monte on it. I hope that every last one of those "protestors", criminals, looters get Covid. I hope they get a double dose of Covid and die in horrible pain. I hope they give it to anyone who supports them and the idiot parent's who raised them. Stop the gene pool.
Actually, that is a bit harsh. I really don't want them to spread it to other innocent people. we have enough on our plates trying to survive the incompetence of our own government. They have done enough damage. Just let them get sick and die. Then the rest of us can try to get on with our lives.
Walter- we are doing yoga classes on Zoom, but it isn't making enough money to pay the rent. It was turning a profit for the first time in December, then numbers went down in March as people got scared, and then it had to close. Plus all the retail and workshops had to be cancelled. So March- May are big months for the studio, and summer is slower.
We will continue teaching classes on Zoom, but there aren't enough time slots for all of the instructors, and there's the challenge of bringing in new students.
had the Floyd protests taken place a couple of weeks ago
when the anti-lockdown protests were in swing, would they have
garnered the same scorn, and would the protesters be "Murderers"?
So a lot of people are going to have egg on their faces if a lot of other people don't get sick and die by the end of the month.
The nearest thing the left has to a religious ceremony is a civil rights protest. They're willing to close down weddings and funerals, but some things are sacrosanct and protected absolutely by the First Amendment.
Maybe some people on the right wanted to say they ought to be more careful and prioritize safety.
Ah, that oh-so-convenient "some people."
No. People on "the right" did not want to say they ought to be more careful. What people on "the right" say is that this proves that the shutdown and the left's power grab have been a complete fraud.
Ah, but someone HAS studied how COVID is transmitted in crowds. Look up the Iranian experience with pilgrims visiting shrines. it is not encouraging.
"...the idiot parent's who raised them."
I always blame the parents who raised them. Learned it listening toe my parents who always blamed the parents of those San Francisco hippy chicks dancin' braless in the moonlight in a homemade paisley skirt and love beads and getting their head beat by TAC squad on Haight protesting the war.
Probably a result of some cult doctor's book.Spock?
I was raised old school from the bible Spare the rod, spoil the child, with extra once in awhile for undiscovered transgressions...
“Yeah, Inga, I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse of Waukesha county.
I do too, since I have a friend who lives in Muskego. She went to a bar there the night Waukesha opened for business. People were chanting "Fuck Tony Evers!"”
My neighbors are not the sort of people who hang out at dive bars in Muskego. You wouldn’t know them, not your sort of people even though they are mostly Republican. They’d look down their nose at you and your friend and the drunks at the Muskego bar.
“I can't help but notice a certain commenter on this board - who was gleefully wishing for sickness and death of those protesting the government lockdowns - has mysterious stayed silent while her leftist thugs do her dirty work in the streets.”
“Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
Well, jadub, I'll go full Monte on it. I hope that every last one of those "protestors", criminals, looters get Covid. I hope they get a double dose of Covid and die in horrible pain. I hope they give it to anyone who supports them and the idiot parent's who raised them. Stop the gene pool.”
Chuckling sadly.
Slightly off topic but I had to laugh when I heard this exchange on the scanner tuned in to Madison Capitol PD:
Officer: "A guy who is part of the protest wants to know if it's OK to set up a barbecue grill in the street."
Supervisor: "It'd be detrimental to traffic and to his grilling skills. No."
The company will share their raw data after journal editors sign NDA's. This is a perfect example of corporate capitalist for profit patent medecine, not single payer medicare for all socialistic wet dream utopia.
Oh, I agree about the scam but these are all lefties, just like Theranos. You know who the corporate lawyer and Board member who bankrupted those who raised questions about it was ? David Boies, big D lawyer.
"My neighbors are not the sort of people who hang out at dive bars in Muskego"
No, your friends are deeply stupid, bitchy Karens.
Intelligent people do not waste time hanging out with bozos and everyone here knows what a vicious dullard you are.
Antiantifa said...
Ah, but someone HAS studied how COVID is transmitted in crowds. Look up the Iranian experience with pilgrims visiting shrines. it is not encouraging.
I know that the Aussies researched the use of cloth masks to prevent the spread of the regular flu among Muslims going on pilgrimage to Mecca. The results showed that cloth masks were useless.
Coronavirus is the least of the looters, rioters, and protesters problem. Should these Democratic Mayors not get a handle on the violence there will be more bloodshed. Do what Democratic President Johnson did during the Detroit riots of '67 - send in the 82nd and 101st Airbone Divisions. The riots in Detroit (back then) stopped in 48 hours and all calm was restored, doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.
Bagoh20 at 11:49, perfectly stated.
By the way, I’m thinking “systemic racism” is synonymous with “systemic ignorance”. For the person speaking the phrase.
That should say “of the person speaking”, not “for the person speaking” in my comment above
I've seen a "protest" commercial which stated "This is more important than personal safety". When do these kids think employment will return for them, if ever?
So if we don't get a spike in 14 days, the last ninety days was bullshit.
Well, if there’s an outbreak next week or the week after at least the victims won’t be helpless old people in rest homes killed on purpose by politicians.
Well, if there’s an outbreak next week or the week after at least the victims won’t be helpless old people in rest homes killed on purpose by politicians.
Medicare rules made it cheaper to kill them than to take care of them. The bureaucratic mind at work!
rwnutjob said...
So if we don't get a spike in 14 days, the last ninety days was bullshit.
I'll save you the trouble of waiting.
The last 90 days was BS.
And the "phased" opening of states even more so. The rule should be- Return to normal. Now. No one understands the opening rules, including those issuing them. Or is that especially those issuing them? I sometimes get confused about that.
I only read the first comment and it was by someone who makes mocking rhyming names and thinks that is Clever, so Bye.
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