July 31, 2019

"Snopes, however, was not content with performing its vital public service of debunking crazy rumors and easing childhood fears."

"It had pretensions to be something more. It took the cultural goodwill built up over years of truth-telling and decided to make a real difference. It kept fact-checking urban legends... but it also began fact-checking politicians and news sites, and conducting its own investigative reports... And that brings me to one of my favorite websites, the Babylon Bee. It’s distinctly conservative, it’s distinctly Christian, it’s very, very funny (especially if you’ve grown up as an Evangelical Christian), and it’s obviously, clearly satire.... Snopes has fact-checked whether Democrats demanded that 'Brett Kavanaugh submit to a DNA test to prove he’s not actually Hitler.' It’s fact-checked whether Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez repeatedly 'guessed "free" on TV show "The Price is Right,"' and whether Ilhan Omar actually asked, 'If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?'...  [L]ast week Snopes... fact-checked an article called 'Georgia Lawmaker Claims Chick-Fil-A Employee Told Her To Go Back To Her Country, Later Clarifies He Actually Said "My Pleasure."'... [I]t questioned whether the article was satire, accusing the Bee of 'fanning the flames of a controversy' and 'muddying the details of a news story.'... [If Snopes] wants to serve its purpose, it must not use its remaining cultural power and its remaining commercial influence to target the satire that stings its allies. Hands off the Babylon Bee."

Writes David French in "Hands Off the Babylon Bee" (National Review).

First, let me disclose my bias. I loathe The Babylon Bee. I don't try to read it. I encounter it because Instapundit puts up the attention-getting headlines so I'm forced to read them and do the half-second-long mental work of seeing that it's just a joke and I never find the joke funny. It's always, oh, no... it's The Babylon Bee. It's like Instapundit is Rickrolling me. But David French says "it’s very, very funny." Not to me, it isn't. Admittedly, I did not grow up as an Evangelical Christian, but I don't know why that would make me more open to attaching nasty fake quotes like "If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?" to a real name like Ilhan Omar.

It doesn't sound as though Snopes is confused about The Babylon Bee and thinks it's purporting to be a real news site. But even when you completely understand the format is satire, like The Onion, you believe that the satire relates to something real. You have to wonder what is the real thing that happened that this is a satire of. So, for example, in the case of "If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?," you'd have to assume, if that's supposed to be funny, Ilhan Omar must have said some anti-Semitic things. The presentation of the quote as satire implies that there is something out there that is being satirized. You extrapolate.

So, in the case of the insist-on-being-Jews quote, Snopes tried to find the factual basis for the satire:
In this case, the website’s intent was to ridicule Omar’s reaction to escalating violence on the Gaza Strip (“The status quo of occupation and humanitarian crisis in Gaza is unsustainable,” she tweeted, emphasizing the plight of Palestinians) by attributing barely coherent anti-Semitic quotes to her. Earlier in the year, Omar was accused by members of both parties of using “anti-Semitic tropes” in criticizing Israel’s influence over U.S. politics. She has made no public statements resembling those in the Babylon Bee article, however.
That is an unusual form of fact-checking, but it is real fact-checking. Snopes also fact-checks The Onion in the same way. For example, there's: "Did ICE Hurl a Pregnant Woman Over a Border Wall?/In June 2018, a piece of satire from 'The Onion' became more confusing to social media users":
The Onion is, of course, a satirical web site that was founded in newspaper form in 1988.

Readers’ mistaking The Onion's humorous material for real news is not uncommon on social media, as demonstrated by questions we’ve received from readers about warring cruise ships and a photograph of Cuban people clinging to the wings of Air Force One.
It's not that people believed the photograph that showed a crowd of people on the wings of Air Force One as it flew, but some readers imagined that something happened, that at least some Cubans clung to the wings of the plane while it was still on the ground.

It's not just this inference that something underlies satire, but that headlines get decontextualized in social media. This is what's I've found so irritating encountering The Babylon Bee at Instapundit. And, yes, I know that lately Instapundit includes some note that the quoted headline is satire — sometimes with a reference to Snopes but also with a nudge that it's awfully close to what's true. For example: "Note to Snopes: It’s the Babylon Bee, so this is satire — or is it?"

So, yeah, I'm defending Snopes. I don't see the problem with what it's doing. I'm sure it leans left, but those who are attacking it lean right. Websites have political leanings. Big deal. So what? That's not worth getting excited about. Who's doing anything wrong here? I don't see much of a problem anywhere. The Babylon Bee isn't very good, in my opinion, and I can't avoid it because it's constantly linked on Instapundit, and I'm not going to quit Instapundit, but I completely own that as my problem.

427 comments:

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tim in vermont said...

Earlier in the year, Omar was accused by members of both parties of using “anti-Semitic tropes” in criticizing Israel’s influence over U.S. politics. She has made no public statements resembling those in the Babylon Bee article, however.

Any time they characterize her words, instead of relaying them directly, ylu know they are hiding something. They. don’t like the judgement they think you might make if left to decide for yourself. That’s “Pravda Reading 101."

Ray - SoCal said...

Wow on the qty response on the Babylon Bee. 400+ comments.

Why do many?

Some guesses:

A. People comment a lot when Althouse appears wrong?
B. Pre-game for the debate thread?
C. Most Althouse Commenters like the Babylon Bee
D. Althouse did an A+ Job of trolling by deliberately using the word loath
E. Perception among many Althouse commenters conservative sites are under attack and being deplatformed / demonetized / shadow banned etc.

Howard said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.

I think this is a tad insensitive to the Trump below Normals

Howard said...

Ray: It's a conservative snowflake trigger topic. You getting your ass handed to you by educated libturd dopers and you are whining about how the big bad bully doesn't fight fair

Marcus Bressler said...

Ann, stop digging.

THEOLDMAN

ken in tx said...

Babylon Bee is not middle school humor. If you have to denigrate them by name calling, call it Sophomoric. Middle school humor involves sex, body functions, sounds, and smells. I was a middle school teacher.

FrankiM said...

“Blogger Ann Althouse said...Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.”

Why can’t you all be as smart and sophisticated as Althouse?

Howard said...

Blogger FrankiM said... Why can’t you all be as smart and sophisticated as Althouse?

Because you can't pick your parents.

effinayright said...

Blogger FrankiM said... Why can’t you all be as smart and sophisticated as Althouse?

****************

Yeah, that's it. Althouse presumably went to law school and learned the socratic method, and all she's got in the end is, "I'm smart and you're not"

What an inglorious, ignominious end to her blog.


Sam L. said...

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, that Babylon Bee makes Snopes so MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDD!!
(I am amused. Bummer for Snopes.)

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Sedaris is funny to people who think mental illness is funny.

SeanF said...

gilbar: oh, you also get no result for:
Palin i can see Russia from my backyard
and
i can see Russia from my backyard

if you search for Just
Palin
i can see russia from my back yard, is not on the first Eight PAGES of results


Because she (Fey as Palin) didn't say "back yard", she said "house". You're searching for articles with "back yard" in them, and there aren't any. A Snopes search for "Palin can see Russia" (or even just "Palin Russia") returns it right away.

AND when did snopes.com FINALLY post something about Palin and russia?

Published 29 January 2011

THREE YEARS after the election (more than THREE YEARS AFTER !!)


You've got a point here, but that's a little more than two years after the election, not three.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"Nope. I’m super fast at seeing satire as satire. Can’t remember ever being fooled even for a while."

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"

"Mr Kavanaugh tried to rape me."

"Nobody I know voted for Nixon."

"Bernie seems calm and reasonable to me." ~ Something Helen Keller might say.

Bilwick said...

rcocean: if you want to see a good example of what you describe, see Tony Kendra's book on Sixties and Seventies humor, "That's Not Funny, That's Sick!" The title comes from the standard Establishment fuddy-duddy-ish put-down of the younger generation 's satire. Yet when Hendra gets to P. J. O'Rourke, Hendra's sense of betrayal is almost palpable. "Hey, using satire to mock liberals--that's dirty pool!" He's one notch away from saying--you guessed it--"That's not funny, that's sick!"

"You know, satire isn't just to make fun of people you disagree with."--Jean Shepherd

GingerBeer said...

"I’m super fast at seeing satire as satire. Can’t remember ever being fooled even for a while." I attempted to fact-check that and I can't find anything...Please provide a link or delete your comment.

Unknown said...

I had never heard of the Babylon Bee until this, so I took a look. Good grief, if this isn't obvious satire, then I don't know what is (and put aside whether it's funny -- I found some of the headlines pretty good, but whatever).

As many other commenters already have noted, what's next? Fact checking The Daily Show? Monty Python? etc.

Probably not, because their politics are acceptable.

Rusty said...

Maybe,Althouse, because it's funny.
Like the cartoons in the old British 'Punch" magazine.Racist? Sometimes. But funny none the less.

Rusty said...

I guess if you see the humor in your own behavior you can see the humor in anything. If you take yourself too seriously you will fail to find the humor in a lot of things.
Life is a comedy. Respond accordingly.

tim in vermont said...

I am not even going to read this thread and I am going to go with the idea that Althouse has been taken out of context.

I will admit that it took a while for The Babylon Bee to hit its stride for me, and they have some clunkers which don’t make. sense to me as a non believing Christian, but still Christian nonetheless. OK, aometheless.

Ray - SoCal said...

Point I had not considered, but makes sense...

HERE’S WHY LIBERALS FEAR THE BABYLON BEE From Hollywoodintoto

FrankiM said...

“Yeah, that's it. Althouse presumably went to law school and learned the socratic method, and all she's got in the end is, "I'm smart and you're not"

“What an inglorious, ignominious end to her blog.”

No, this isn’t the end of her blog. If it were it would be the end of Althouse herself. I don’t believe she could go on living if it weren’t for this blog. This is where she has created a world of “friends” to admire her and stroke her ego. Unfortunately she never learned how to treat her friends with respect, yet she demands respect. Sorry, but respect is a two way street. She’ll go on blogging until she drops, its her life. She needs an audience.

Dr. Graphene said...

For the first time EVER I am disappointed by Ann Althouse, and I’ve been a loyal reader since...well, I don’t want to give away my age. Vote for Obama? I’m fine with it. Althouse = intellectual honesty. So rare these days. She even defends Trump!

But Iran Omar? Sorry Ann. She’s waived her right to ever be defended.ESPECIALLY AGAINST SATIRE (whether funny or not).

Call Trump racist. Fine.

Call Trump sexist. Fine.

Call Trump xenophobic. Fine.

I don’t see the evidence myself, but I can understand if someone else does. Ihan Omar, however, is a virulent racist and anti-Semite who demonstrably hates this country. I’d tell her to go back to Somalia - but even I wouldn’t wish that on Somalia.

PaoloP said...

Exaggeration, overstatement, amplification are classical and ubiquitous tools of satire.
The Babylon Bee is doing its job, irritating the leftist part of Althouse's personality.

Btw, TBB is really funny.

jac said...

Would Ms Althouse have Snopes fact check A Modest Proposal?

MB said...

This is not funny.

earnestswalls@gmail.com said...

Alright guys sorry I know I'm late.

I'm only here to say: I am HIGHLY conservative, but I do NOT find the Babylon Bee funny. I DO find the Onion funny--and quite frankly, I (to this day) do NOT see it as "liberal" publication.

Is it just me?

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