July 31, 2019

"Snopes, however, was not content with performing its vital public service of debunking crazy rumors and easing childhood fears."

"It had pretensions to be something more. It took the cultural goodwill built up over years of truth-telling and decided to make a real difference. It kept fact-checking urban legends... but it also began fact-checking politicians and news sites, and conducting its own investigative reports... And that brings me to one of my favorite websites, the Babylon Bee. It’s distinctly conservative, it’s distinctly Christian, it’s very, very funny (especially if you’ve grown up as an Evangelical Christian), and it’s obviously, clearly satire.... Snopes has fact-checked whether Democrats demanded that 'Brett Kavanaugh submit to a DNA test to prove he’s not actually Hitler.' It’s fact-checked whether Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez repeatedly 'guessed "free" on TV show "The Price is Right,"' and whether Ilhan Omar actually asked, 'If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?'...  [L]ast week Snopes... fact-checked an article called 'Georgia Lawmaker Claims Chick-Fil-A Employee Told Her To Go Back To Her Country, Later Clarifies He Actually Said "My Pleasure."'... [I]t questioned whether the article was satire, accusing the Bee of 'fanning the flames of a controversy' and 'muddying the details of a news story.'... [If Snopes] wants to serve its purpose, it must not use its remaining cultural power and its remaining commercial influence to target the satire that stings its allies. Hands off the Babylon Bee."

Writes David French in "Hands Off the Babylon Bee" (National Review).

First, let me disclose my bias. I loathe The Babylon Bee. I don't try to read it. I encounter it because Instapundit puts up the attention-getting headlines so I'm forced to read them and do the half-second-long mental work of seeing that it's just a joke and I never find the joke funny. It's always, oh, no... it's The Babylon Bee. It's like Instapundit is Rickrolling me. But David French says "it’s very, very funny." Not to me, it isn't. Admittedly, I did not grow up as an Evangelical Christian, but I don't know why that would make me more open to attaching nasty fake quotes like "If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?" to a real name like Ilhan Omar.

It doesn't sound as though Snopes is confused about The Babylon Bee and thinks it's purporting to be a real news site. But even when you completely understand the format is satire, like The Onion, you believe that the satire relates to something real. You have to wonder what is the real thing that happened that this is a satire of. So, for example, in the case of "If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?," you'd have to assume, if that's supposed to be funny, Ilhan Omar must have said some anti-Semitic things. The presentation of the quote as satire implies that there is something out there that is being satirized. You extrapolate.

So, in the case of the insist-on-being-Jews quote, Snopes tried to find the factual basis for the satire:
In this case, the website’s intent was to ridicule Omar’s reaction to escalating violence on the Gaza Strip (“The status quo of occupation and humanitarian crisis in Gaza is unsustainable,” she tweeted, emphasizing the plight of Palestinians) by attributing barely coherent anti-Semitic quotes to her. Earlier in the year, Omar was accused by members of both parties of using “anti-Semitic tropes” in criticizing Israel’s influence over U.S. politics. She has made no public statements resembling those in the Babylon Bee article, however.
That is an unusual form of fact-checking, but it is real fact-checking. Snopes also fact-checks The Onion in the same way. For example, there's: "Did ICE Hurl a Pregnant Woman Over a Border Wall?/In June 2018, a piece of satire from 'The Onion' became more confusing to social media users":
The Onion is, of course, a satirical web site that was founded in newspaper form in 1988.

Readers’ mistaking The Onion's humorous material for real news is not uncommon on social media, as demonstrated by questions we’ve received from readers about warring cruise ships and a photograph of Cuban people clinging to the wings of Air Force One.
It's not that people believed the photograph that showed a crowd of people on the wings of Air Force One as it flew, but some readers imagined that something happened, that at least some Cubans clung to the wings of the plane while it was still on the ground.

It's not just this inference that something underlies satire, but that headlines get decontextualized in social media. This is what's I've found so irritating encountering The Babylon Bee at Instapundit. And, yes, I know that lately Instapundit includes some note that the quoted headline is satire — sometimes with a reference to Snopes but also with a nudge that it's awfully close to what's true. For example: "Note to Snopes: It’s the Babylon Bee, so this is satire — or is it?"

So, yeah, I'm defending Snopes. I don't see the problem with what it's doing. I'm sure it leans left, but those who are attacking it lean right. Websites have political leanings. Big deal. So what? That's not worth getting excited about. Who's doing anything wrong here? I don't see much of a problem anywhere. The Babylon Bee isn't very good, in my opinion, and I can't avoid it because it's constantly linked on Instapundit, and I'm not going to quit Instapundit, but I completely own that as my problem.

427 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 427   Newer›   Newest»
bagoh20 said...

I read Snopes back in the early eighties when it was new, and loved it then, but as with all things the left touches, it gets ruined with a political bias that has no tolerance for outsiders.

Robert Cook said...

"She’s Muslim."

If that is your answer to my question, that's not an answer.

M Jordan said...

The trouble with a satire publication and standup comedy too (and comedy TV shows) is they are funny factories. They exist for one purpose: to elicit laughs. I used to enjoy such things but as I age I prefer humor as a spice, not the main course.

Amadeus 48 said...

This is a thought experiment only:

If the famous Onion headline of the Clinton era--January 21, 1993-- ("New President Feels Nation's Pain, Breasts") were published today, would Snopes fact-check it?

TrespassersW said...

A data point: Per CNN's so-called journalist Brian Stelter, The Babylon Bee is "a fake news site."

Granted, that was so-called journalist Brian Stelter, of the so-called news organization CNN.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/07/30/cnns-brian-stelter-the-onion-is-a-great-parody-site-but-the-babylon-bee-is-straight-up-fake-news/

Nonapod said...

There seems to be an over concern on the Left about people believing that certain satire is true. Of course, in the case of the Bee it's probably more than just that. Many on the Left can not abide mockery of their people and positions. Hence the deplatforming efforts.

But in any case, I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people may mistake some headline from a satire site as not-satire for any length of time in this day and age. There's too many people who are eager to correct people who are misinformed these days. It's too easy to point out that the Babylon Bee is just a satire site.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

I think the Babylon Bee is the funniest, smartest satire publication there is and I laugh at their headlines and articles daily. Those of us who do have a religious upbringing but aren't stupid or uptight about it, love the pokes at the Church and the buffoons on the left and occasionally those on the right who take ridiculous positions. The way I see it, the Babylon Bee mocks the issues, events, and political pronouncements that most deserve mockery and these things just happen to be overwhelmingly coming from the progressive left. I suspect those who think Snopes is being fair and not overtly and obviously partisan, are unable to be intellectually honest on the subject for whatever reason that I can't fathom.

Openidname said...

Methinks our hostess is trolling us again.

bagoh20 said...

'A data point: Per CNN's so-called journalist Brian Stelter, The Babylon Bee is "a fake news site."

Yea, Brian, but they don't pretend otherwise. It's the difference between being fake and s liar.

purplepenquin said...

If the famous Onion headline of the Clinton era--January 21, 1993-- ("New President Feels Nation's Pain, Breasts") were published today, would Snopes fact-check it?

Maybe-perhaps. I reckon it would depend on how many folks forwarded that headline as real news rather than satire. After all, they have fact-checked many other articles from The Onion.

Drago said...

penguin: "When Daily Show and SNL skits get passed along as "real news" (ie - Palin seeing Russia from her backyard) then they do review it."

LOL

How many jokes concerning non-existent Trump/Russia collusion have SNL and Daily Show made when we know that collusion/coordination/conspiracy never happened and was all made up by dems/leftists/LLR's?

Currently 70% + of democrats/leftists/libs/dems believe Trump colluded....and the jokes by the usual sources keep coming.....which reinforce the lie.

But you know all this.

It's all play-acting on a path to get a site that hits lefties deplatformed.

All else from you guys on the left is obfuscation.

Drago said...

penguin: "Maybe-perhaps. I reckon it would depend on how many folks forwarded that headline as real news rather than satire."

How many lefties forward SNL jokes about non-existent Trump/Russia collusion?

mccullough said...

Snopes function is to disabuse middle schoolers.

Anonymous said...

Fuck Snopes. I have no problem with them letting people know that Babylon Bee is a satire site. But trying to say that they're really fake news, which gets them demonetized, instead of satire is very close to tortious interference and they need their hands slapped hard.

stlcdr said...

There is no overlap on the Venn diagram of Snopes and Babylon Bee.

bagoh20 said...

""She’s Muslim."

If that is your answer to my question, that's not an answer."


It may be unfortunate, but what other aspect of modern Islam is more front and center than a hatred for Jews and Israel. It's a serious question. If you had a friend who was Jewish, how would you feel about taking them to a gathering of Muslims. Would you feel obligated to warn your friend?

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

As this thread shows, Althouse is actually defending the BB and ridiculing Snopes by raising the profile of the issue. Her services to the First Amendment should be praised, not decried.

Comanche Voter said...

Oh come on Ms. Althouse. There's always a place for infantile humor or satire. Mad magazine filled the spot for years. Places like The Onion or The Babylon Bee occupy the same sort of slot.

Snopes on the other hand truly is "not funny". How often do you encounter someone saying something is definitely "not true" because they "checked it out" on Snopes? When I hear that my "BS meter" goes on Defcon IV. Snopes filters everything through a left wing kaleidoscope.

Saint Croix said...

Snopes Issues Pre-Approval on All Statements Made During Tonight's Democratic Debate

Since their original founding in 1957 by the KGB, Snopes has gained a reputation for objectively reporting what someone’s secret motivations probably were...

Saint Croix said...

Send her back! And her ferret too!

Mike Sylwester said...

It looks like Althouse will make most of us delete our comments from this thread.

Ficta said...

Snopes fact checking TBB is not a problem. It's fine. Snopes fact checking TBB more than The Onion is fine. Snopes insinuating that TBB is "fake news" is a very big problem. As Phil says above, they need to be slapped back in no uncertain terms.

404 Page Not Found said...

First of all Ann, I'm disappointed that you don't find The Babylon Bee funny. I don't think you have much of a sense of humor.

Second, Snopes purports to be "objective", so the fact that you admit it "leans left" means you understand it fails in its primary purpose. Snopes is, in fact, NOT objective. They regularly "truth check" straw men. They are a fake truth evaluator.

Anonymous said...

purple p: The problem is that so many people, intentionally or accidentally, are passing along the Bee's stories as actual quotes from the folks they satire.

I'm old enough to remember those dark days when the only recourse we had in the face of earnest pronouncements from our thickie literal-minded neighbors was to shake our heads and roll our eyes, or maybe to laugh at them and tell them to stop being idiots. Thank God that these days we have partisan internet scolds to set everyone straight!

Humorless or gullible people taking satire at face value is not, as a matter of fact, a "problem" requiring policing by fact-checking "authorities".

If a lotta people were also linking to clips of Alex Baldwin on SNL and saying "See what Trump said!" then Snopes would be addressing that as well.

Since there are plenty of dim lefties out there still smugly referencing the Palin/Russia joke as fact, I guess Snopes' efforts have been ineffectual.

We obviously need more and better humor-policing experts.

Earnest Prole said...

Irony-impervious Althouse.

Darkisland said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...

I read Snopes back in the early eighties when it was new,

"Early eighties?"

Where were you reading it?

JOhn Henry

Jim Gust said...

I've noticed that Facebook is increasingly censoring some of the posts, something that started a couple months back.

I find most of TBB funny. I'm going to start linking to them on Facebook regular, to test whether those links are accepted. If they are not, this is a serious problem.

Yancey Ward said...

Ms. Althouse,

I found it interesting that you seem to believe the cited fact check of The Onion "story" on ICE serves your overall argument. Do you really not understand why Snopes.com would fact check that particular story? Think about it, and perhaps you will understand that it really isn't a case of Snopes showing some balance in fact checking another satire site. In other words, the ICE satire piece is exactly the sort of satire one could find on Babylon Bee- Snopes fact checked it because they believed the satire was a slur on the critics of ICE, not on ICE itself.

Earnest Prole said...

What's funny is that Snopes clearly knows exactly what it's doing playing dumb on conservative satire. I'm not so certain the same can be said for Althouse.

hombre said...

Flash: Snopes to fact check Alice In Wonderland, Gulliver’s Travels. Althouse applauds.

iqvoice said...

So maybe I misremembered the quote, but I wasn't lying. Other points stand: there is no discussion about how the #fakenews SNL skit may have poisoned the well, only a brief reverie about Sherlock Holmes never uttering the phrase "Elementary, my dear Watson."

Snopes Search

Calvinus said...

I usually enjoy the Babylon Bee, but I don't actually think that it is any more or less clever or funny, in an abstract sense, than the Onion or The Daily Show (Jon Stewart version anyway) or SNL. But I enjoy it a lot more because I think it hits a lot closer to the truth. The Bee is skyrocketing in popularity because it appeals to approximately half the country that is starved for comedy and satire that doesn't hate them. It reminds us that comedy isn't inherently leftist.

I remember watching Atlas Shrugged Part 1 in the theater some years ago. It was not a great movie. The writing was as ham-fisted as the book, but it made a lot of points that I sympathize with. I remember thinking--Wow, this is what liberals must feel like when watching 99% of political movies. They may not be great art, but they scratch us where we itch, and that's something.

Yancey Ward said...

And as others have probably already pointed out in a thread of 200+ comments, Snopes.com is used by internet Goliaths like Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter as a gatekeeper for what gets censored as "fake news". I personally wouldn't give a shit about Snopes fact checking anyone if they weren't used in this fashion- it would just be amusing. However, Snopes does this with the goal of getting Babylon Bee and other right lean satirists and critics silenced. This is evil.

Gunner said...

SJWs are 70s era Jerry Falwell and Conservatives are 70s era Larry Flynt.

Has anyone ever seen Eric Swallwell and his mom in an outhouse?

Ken B said...

I do not see how Facebook's apology disproves the accusation against Snopes. Please explain.

I do not see why low grade humor deserves a hostile fact check but New Yorker cartoons do not.

Drago said...

purple p: The problem is that so many people, intentionally or accidentally, are passing along the Bee's stories as actual quotes from the folks they satire.

Meanwhile....

Lefty comedy writer Dan Lyons was putting out this widely retweeted fake quote attributed to Jim Jordan: “While Obama and Biden were cowering in fear on Air Force 1, Mr. Trump was on the ground with first responders searching for survivors and pulling people to safety” after the 9/11 terrorist attacks"

"Washington Free Beacon writer Alex Griswold compiled a list of people, including USA Today national correspondent Lindsay Schnell, left-wing activist Scott Dworkin, Princeton University professor Kevin Kruse and former Democratic congressional candidate Pam Keith, among others, who fell for the fake quote.

....

“In my defense, [Jordan] does say a lot of ridiculous things,” Kruse wrote on Twitter, admitting he got duped."

https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/30/fake-jim-jordan-quote-9-11-trump/

There will be no fact checks on this one...or any other one where the lefties are putting out false info.

James K said...

I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people may mistake some headline from a satire site as not-satire for any length of time in this day and age.

Yes, except that a lot of CNN, NYT, WaPo sounds like satire, so sometimes it gets hard to tell the difference.

Drago said...

Ken B: "I do not see how Facebook's apology disproves the accusation against Snopes."

It does precisely the opposite. It demonstrates the complaints about Snopes are spot on, which is a problem for the left, so they have to pretend its about something else.

See Howard's comments upthread.

Mr. D said...

No one objects when The Bee is belaboring Calvinists and youth pastors. Facebook has given Snopes a gun and badge and now Snopes is telling the Bee to stay in its lane. Many deputies abuse their badges.

Harsh Pencil said...

"Blogger Ann Althouse said...

Please provide a link or delete your comment."

Dear Mr. Buckley,

Please cancel my subscription.

Buckley: cancel your own goddamn subscription.

tim maguire said...

Remember the good old days when we'd laugh together at Snopes' brutal take down of Jon Stewart after one of his better Daily Show rants?

Me neither. And millions of people did think that was real news.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

So, yeah, I'm defending Snopes. I don't see the problem with what it's doing. I'm sure it leans left, but those who are attacking it lean right. Websites have political leanings. Big deal. So what?

Facts, from a 'fact-checker', are biased? And that's ok?

Satire, from a satire site, is biased/not funny, and that's loathsome?

Facebook Gives ‘Fact Checker’ Snopes The Power To Shadowban Conservatives
http://thewashingtonpundit.com/2019/07/24/facebook-gives-fact-checker-snopes-the-power-to-shadowban-conservatives/

Drago said...

tim maguire: "Me neither. And millions of people did think that was real news."

Tens of millions still do.

David53 said...

"When Daily Show and SNL skits get passed along as "real news" (ie - Palin seeing Russia from her backyard) then they do review it.

Snopes rated the claim about Palin as "Misattributed." They couldn't bring themselves to say it was false, not much of a review.

Automatic_Wing said...

The issue that Althouse is avoiding here is that this isn't just about some lefty website criticizing some righty website. What Snopes is doing here, without much subtlety, is laying the groundwork for a broader deplatforming effort against the Bee. Is she on board with the deplatforming movement? Apparently, if she finds the website in question to be "not funny".

n.n said...

The Onion, NYT, WaPo, Babylon Bee, CNN, PBS, SNL, NPR, Snopes, etc. are all poseurs in the fake news and fact check businesses.

Drago said...

AW: "Is she on board with the deplatforming movement? Apparently, if she finds the website in question to be "not funny"."

Maybe Althouse believes if she plays along the crocodile will eat her last.....

deepelemblues said...

Babylon Bee is consistently amusing, professor is a fuddy duddy. Spinster aunt sniffing at dirty jokes territory here

mockturtle said...

I had never read it until now but...

"CDC: People With Dirt On Clintons Have 843% Greater Risk Of Suicide"

I've just subscribed.

n.n said...

Is she on board with the deplatforming movement?

Ah, yes, the pretense of Google/Alphabet, Twitter, Facebook, SPLC et al, of maintaining a higher ground in order to secure monopolies and practices for their respective platforms, and to deny participation to anyone who may question their integrity. Democrats have attempted the same ploy with allegations of diversity, sexism, phobias, civil rights, human rights, and so on and so forth, with variable effect.

Big Mike said...

At the second round of Democratic debates on Tuesday, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) accused President Donald Trump of calling Baltimore "nothing but a home for rats."

Does anyone imagine that Snopes will fact-check Klobuchar?

FrankiM said...

“I also want Snopes to check out what happened to Althouse's sense of humor. Did it go the way of her sense of smell?”

One of the early symptoms of Parkinson’s disease is anosmia, also cognitive decline, not a laughing matter.

jpg said...

I think Ann Althouse misses the point of what Snopes is up to, namely, to lay the groundwork for deplatforming not only Babylon Bee but to normalize censoring conservative speech.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Snopes asserts this is "Mostly false".***


(***no they didnt--that was satire. Loathsome , fake news satire)

mockturtle said...

Incidentally, Snopes is not to be trusted. Forbes did an article on the subject from which this paragraph is extracted:

"From the outside, Silicon Valley looks like a gleaming tower of technological perfection. Yet, once the curtain is pulled back, we see that behind that shimmering façade is a warehouse of good old fashioned humans, subject to all the same biases and fallibility, but with their results now laundered through the sheen of computerized infallibility. Even my colleagues who work in the journalism community and by their nature skeptical, had assumed that Snopes must have rigorous screening procedures, constant inter- and intra-rater evaluations and ongoing assessments and a total transparency mandate. Yet, the truth is that we simply have no visibility into the organization’s inner workings and its founder declined to shed further light into its operations for this article."

0_0 said...

Unknown people who source the mystery email chains I get will occasionally deride Snopes or use it to back up the email text- and if you check Snopes, they really do not support the emailed text. One of these was some diatribe about a dentist office near where I used to live that was defamed (somehow) by Snopes, but I thought the spelling was off (it's La Grange, GA; not Lagrange) and when I checked old phone books in the library I could not find the made up dentist's office.

Now many of these emails will close with "the facts may be off, but if you agree in spirit then forward this email!". Blech.

I don't care who you are, the Alexandria Cortez on Price is Right is funny.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

then there's Poe's Law...

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

and what about "Fake, but accurate" ?

now that's funny!

FrankiM said...

“To loathe the Babylon Bee seems pretty severe.”

Some people use the word “loathe” because they think using the word “hate” is pedestrian or boring. It’s a form of snobbery.

0_0 said...

Forgot to add: the Duffel Blog is funny, but it used to be funnier when they had comments. There were some clueless but offended people posting their outrage!

Howard said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...

I read Snopes back in the early eighties when it was new, and loved it then, but as with all things the left touches, it gets ruined with a political bias that has no tolerance for outsiders.


so then you are against liberal walls

Doug said...

First, let me disclose my bias. I loathe The Babylon Bee.
What's the matter, Althouse? Their material not feminist-y, gay-y for you?

Roughcoat said...

Concerning The Onion: I still find the "Area Man" bit hilarious.

Mike Sylwester said...

Facebook Gives ‘Fact Checker’ Snopes The Power To Shadowban Conservatives

http://thewashingtonpundit.com/2019/07/24/facebook-gives-fact-checker-snopes-the-power-to-shadowban-conservatives/


That does not bother Althouse.

gilbar said...

purplepenquin said...
After all, they have fact-checked many other articles from The Onion.

PP, i went to your link, and noticed that The OVERWHELMING Majority of those Onion articles were right slanted, and looked like they could have been from the BB
Could you post a list of Onion articles (or SNL skits? (or Daily Shows?)), that were left slanting and got snoped?

There must be lots! you just didn't list any

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"Loathe-speech", Loathe-crime"

committed by the upper-crust

Rick said...

purple p: The problem is that so many people, intentionally or accidentally, are passing along the Bee's stories as actual quotes from the folks they satire.

There's no evidence this is actually true. This justification is arrived at by considering what "fact" would justify the left's reaction and asserting it. There is no relationship to reality at all.

effinayright said...

This just in: Snopes has fact-checked Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" and found it to be untrue and unfunny.

There's Althouse's world for you.

Rick said...

the Alexandria Cortez on Price is Right is funny.

That was a good one I hadn't already seen, so thanks for this thread.

effinayright said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kelly said...

Ann found Kathy Griffin’s show hilarious. We definitely don’t have the same sense of humor and that’s okay. I personally don’t want to shut down Griffen's shows. Can’t say the same for the left and that’s what this is about. So defend snopes all you want, but you should know where this headed.

effinayright said...

Althouse thinks that if a Google search doesn't turn up an affirmation of a claim, it necessarily means that the claim is untrue?

Well, bless her heart!

Beasts of England said...

'CDC: People With Dirt On Clintons Have 843% Greater Risk Of Suicide'

Too funny. As is the AOC clip where everything's free. Their satire hits too close to home for the that's-not-funny brigade.

rehajm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jersey Fled said...

Apparently we've replaced the "reasonable person" standard with the "dumbest person on Earth" standard. That is, if the dumbest person on Earth doesn't get it that something is satire, it must be condemned as "fake news" and deplatformed.

This proves conclusively that the dumbest person on Earth is a Democrat since only conservative sites get banned.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

when the BEE satirizes Evangelical foibles...

...did they ever "fact-check" those ???????

rehajm said...

Please provide a link or delete your comment.

So a link will be your definitive evidence Snopes is trying to deplatform The Babylon Bee?

Sources say Snopes is trying to deplatform the Babylon Bee!!!

(You, a lawyer!)

Honestly, Ann sounds like those deniers that howled people were paranoid when it was being claimed cable and network news had a leftie bias. Where's the proof????

Ken B said...

Drago
You are right . That fb apologized indicates — if it is sincere — that Snopes's label has the to game the algorithm. That Snopes has such ability surely counts as evidence against Snopes not for them as AA would have it.

Big Mike said...

Apparently we've replaced the "reasonable person" standard with the "dumbest person on Earth" standard.

Not true! Just "dumb enough to vote for Democrats" standard. There actually is a tiny bit of difference between "dumb enough to vote for Democrats" and "dumbest person on earth."

Darkisland said...

Blogger wholelottasplainin' said...

Althouse thinks that if a Google search doesn't turn up an affirmation of a claim, it necessarily means that the claim is untrue?

Althouse uses Google for search?

Next we'll be finding out that she is using Chrome!?!?!?!

Say it ain't so, Ann.

Friends don't let friends drive drunk or use Google

For the more sentient, here is a great list of Google alternatives

https://www.techspot.com/news/80729-complete-list-alternatives-all-google-products.html

John Henry

traditionalguy said...

The total BS all the time coming straight ut of the DNC and the media owned by the clown Dems offends me way more than the silliness of the insider humor of evangelicals.

MartyB said...

I don't find the BB that funny myself and pretty much ignore the posts on Instapundit.

But why should Snopes treat BB any different than how it treats other comedy outlets? Do they "fact check" all the late night comics or comedy shows that routinely satirize news stories - which often change and mis-characterize the facts to make a funny point?

Snopes used to be invaluable to look up whether some meme on social media (or prior to FB, traveling the internet in discussion groups) was based on any facts.

If they are just gonna be another opinion outlet, fact checking other opinions - their usefulness is gone.

Thant's not funny!

rehajm said...

When I was a kid my sister would yell at me for something then my mom would yell at me.

When I was a kid I would yell at my sister for something then my mom would yell at me.

It's the asymmetry what's the problem.

bagoh20 said...

""Early eighties?"

Where were you reading it?


As I remember, it was just a column by a guy in the local paper in Venice Beach.

bagoh20 said...

Wikipedia says Snopes started in 1994, so I have it confused with "The Straight Dope" by Cecil Adams back in the 80's. Apologies.

Francisco D said...

There seems to be an over concern on the Left about people believing that certain satire is true.

Well, they know how to fool their own voters.

Didn't the Kavanaugh hearings seem like an SNL skit?

James K said...

I have it confused with "The Straight Dope" by Cecil Adams

Cecil Adams (a pseudonym) provided humorous checking of scientific and historical facts, not so much political/media stuff, because it was pre-internet. In any case, it seemed to be apolitical and lighthearted, unlike the pretentious Snopes, Kessler et al.

n.n said...

Althouse thinks that if a Google search doesn't turn up an affirmation of a claim, it necessarily means that the claim is untrue?

Althouse uses Google for search?


Try Bing or some other search engine. However, invariably, there will be an establishment bias. That said, pass the Kleenex.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

As an editor, I am distressed to see that I wrote "Its not ... funny" in my post above, rather than "it's ... not funny."

In recompense: Beers all around, my treat.

wendybar said...

If you are liberal or Progressive, you take what Snopes says as truth. After actually seeing some of their lies, I think they suck as much as the fact checkers of the Washington Post.

Clark said...

"attention-getting headlines so I'm forced to read them and do the half-second-long mental work of seeing that it's just a joke"

Different people have different tolerances for sticking with a story someone is telling them when that story is strange or unbelievable. If someone is telling me a story that is hard to believe, I tend to go along with them for longer than most. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I assume they are sincere. I assume there is some way that what they are saying makes sense.

My friends and family know this about me and they sometimes use this knowledge to make fun of me, seeing how long they can keep me nodding along trying to understand the whopper they are telling me. When I get tricked in this way, I just laugh it off. Getting tricked is just a cost of starting out giving people the benefit of the doubt, of listening open-mindedly to people, of trying to understand how what they are saying makes sense.

It sounds to me like Althouse's loathing might follow from that moment of embarrassment upon realizing she has been tricked.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

should satire be held to a higher standard than fact-checking?

Biased 'fact-checker'? No big deal !

Arguably mediocre satire? Loathsome !

If you are the go-to source for facts, you can be biased/sloppy
If you write comedy, you better be damned good**

**good = I like you

bagoh20 said...

"Amish Projected To Overtake The Current US Population In 215 Years, If Growth Rates Continue"

Not the Babylon Bee

https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/31/amish-population-america-growth-rates/

tarheel said...

I'm another Christian that finds Babylon Bee hilarious. The point is that Snopes is trying to get them deplatformed.

Earnest Prole said...

Ann found Kathy Griffin’s show hilarious.

I find Kathy Griffin’s show hilarious. And the Babylon Bee. And Jon Stewart. And Donald Trump.

The unpardonable sins are a) playing dumb that you don’t get the joke, and b) being so dumb that you don’t get the joke. Sadly, that makes Snopes and Althouse boatmates.

PJ said...

In Snopes’s partial defense, it is easy to believe they get a disproportionate number of fact-check requests from SJW swarmers who wish to position themselves as offended by some right-leaning satire piece (funny or otherwise) and hope to see Snopes “punish” the satirists. But if you’re Snopes, you should be aware of such attempts at manipulation and make a conscious decision whether to cooperate with them (by conducting a regular factual analysis of the satire) or resist (by noting the “issue” and analyzing it only to the extent of saying, “it’s satire, stupid.” The question is whether it’s fair to draw the inference that they’re consciously doing the former in selective cases, indicating bias.

alanc709 said...

https://babylonbee.com/news/innovative-new-process-converts-vegetables-into-meat-by-feeding-them-to-cows

Tell me that isn't funny.

320Busdriver said...

Only 6700 sigs short of 50K at omartruth.com. she needs to be investigated...pronto

Greatest Ever said...

We all know you "loathe the Babylon bee" because it does a fabulous job of making fun of your side.
That's why you're defending Snopes.
Who actually even uses Snopes anymore?

Earnest Prole said...

Some people use the word “loathe” because they think using the word “hate” is pedestrian or boring. It’s a form of snobbery.

The Babylon Bee garners a “loathe” from Althouse.

FrankiM said...

“The Babylon Bee garners a “loathe” from Althouse.”

I suspect that the readers here are deeply disturbed by the elitism (or something) of the Blogress.

RobinGoodfellow said...

Ann,

You ... don’t think the Babylon Bee is funny?

I was not raised evangelical Christian, either, but that web site’s a hoot! To paraphrase Washington Redskins fullback John Riggins, “Come on Ann baby, loosen up. You’re too tight.”

Pianoman said...

This seems like another good example of Scott Adams "Two Movies" theory.

I find Babylon Bee hilarious. I think Snopes is suffering from Mission Creep, and might even be descending into Political Action Committee status.

Beasts of England said...

'In recompense: Beers all around, my treat.'

The sincerest form of reparations!! ;)

mockturtle said...

Big Mike asserts: There actually is a tiny bit of difference between "dumb enough to vote for Democrats" and "dumbest person on earth."

Where's the proof?

Charlie said...

There's so much dishonesty in the military industrial fact checking complex these days that I've developed an involuntary twitch whenever I see "fact check" in a headline. I know going in that the logic will be tortured if they're checking a conservative, and they'll take a "see no evil..." approach to most things on the left. I guess what galls me the most is that the very term "fact check" creates a bogus sense of neutrality, scientific precision and fairness that sucks the gullible right in to what is really just baldfaced editorializing.

RobinGoodfellow said...

Ann,

You ... don’t thin the Babylon Bee is funny? I wasn’t raised evangelical Christian, either, but that web site’s a hoot!

To paraphrase Washington Redskins fullback John Riggins, “Come on Ann baby, loosen up. You’re too tight!”

Johnathan Birks said...

Ann you have a blind spot in your otherwise keen sense for cultural absurdity. That Snopes would "fact check" the Babylon Bee is the most 21st century thing imaginable. And a sad sign of how empty the former Smoking Gun has become.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Diogenes of Snopes

a dishonest man looking for 'truth'

Harsh Pencil said...

You can't spell loathe us without Althouse.

RobinGoodfellow said...


Blogger TreeJoe said...
Either all Satire is Satire or else all satire/comedy needs to be fact checked.

Should we Fact Check Comedy Central because they mix news with comedy? Saturday Night Live?


IIRC, Snopes once actually fact checked an SNL skit about Obama.

Earnest Prole said...

You can't spell loathe us without Althouse.

Masterful.

Yancey Ward said...

Harsh Pencil,

You, sir, win the day!

RobinGoodfellow said...


Blogger Darkisland said...
Blogger bagoh20 said...

I read Snopes back in the early eighties when it was new,


bagoh20, hipster in 1980: “I read Snopes on papyrus—you’ve never heard of it.”

Big Mike said...

“I read Snopes on papyrus—you’ve never heard of it.”

I read it on the original clay tablets.

Laslo Spatula said...

I read Snopes when the font they used was Papyrus.

Their Web Designer also did online menus for Greek Restaurants.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

How do you know if the establishment is Greek?

Everyone enters through the rear.

It's funnier in Comic Sans.

I am Laslo.

285exp said...

Althouse,

Assuming you are not just trolling us, I can only assume you read only the revised Snopes article and not the original version. In the original, this was the blurb under the headline of the "fact check":

"We're not sure if fanning the flames of controversy and muddying the details of a news story classify and article as "satire""

Hmmm, did they say anything like that about The Onion articles that they fact checked? Are there financial consequences for a satire site for it's articles to be classified as fake news, and not satire?

Almost a week later, after I assume some lawyers got involved, it was replaced with:

"Many readers were confused by an article that altered some details of a controversial news story"

Further down in the original article, Snopes did this bit of editorializing:

"In an apparent attempt to maximize the online indignation" and "The Babylon Bee has managed to fool readers with its brand of satire in the past", and they referred to the BB article as a "ruse", all of which implies that the intent of the BB article was to fool people into thinking it was an actual news article, not satire. All of that has been removed from the current Snopes article, and the following was added as an editors note:

"Some readers interpreted wording in a previous version of the fact check as imputing deceptive intent on the part of Babylon Bee.."

Ya think? This kind of commentary was not used in the articles fact checking The Onion.

and: "to address any confusion, we have revised some of the wording mostly for tone and clarity."

Yep, because it was imputing deceptive intent. Company lawyers get antsy about that kind of thing.

"We are in the process of pioneering industry standards for how the fact checking industry should best address humor and satire"

I suggest they take Cookies advice, and fact check articles from obvious humor and satire sites by saying: "People, it's a satire site, don't be a dumbass."

The original Snopes article was categorized as Fact Check> Fake News, now it's Fact Check> Junk News. It's not too hard to figure out why they made that change either.



RobinGoodfellow said...


Blogger FrankiM said...
“To loathe the Babylon Bee seems pretty severe.”

Some people use the word “loathe” because they think using the word “hate” is pedestrian or boring. It’s a form of snobbery.


I think “loathe” expresses a stronger emotion than “hate.”

As a University of Florida fan, I hate FSU.

But I loathe Colin Kaepernick.

Rumpletweezer said...

Ms. Althouse,

How do you feel about Tom Lehrer?

Ken B said...

Ann freaked out on Tina, demanding respect.
Hands up if Althouse earned your respect with this post.
Who is exactly who is undermining this blog?

Ken B said...

Rumpletweezer
Indeed! When exactly did Wernher Von Braun say “That’s not my department.”?

lane ranger said...

Snopes is taking on the Babylon Bee precisely because the Bee successfully mocks leftists in an amusing manner, something liberals cannot understand or abide.

GingerBeer said...

Sympathies to Meade. My wife doesn't have a sense of humor either.

Marcus Bressler said...

PJ, you're give Snopes too much credit there.They are a far left organization by any standard.

THEOLDMAN

Marcus Bressler said...

And is it really fun poisoning pigeons in the park?

THEOLDMAN

I'd like to poison a few seagulls here.

Sebastian said...

"So, yeah, I'm defending Snopes. I don't see the problem with what it's doing. I'm sure it leans left, but those who are attacking it lean right. Websites have political leanings. Big deal. So what?

Facts, from a 'fact-checker', are biased? And that's ok?

Satire, from a satire site, is biased/not funny, and that's loathsome?"

Yup. The World according to Althouse.

"The issue that Althouse is avoiding here is that this isn't just about some lefty website criticizing some righty website. What Snopes is doing here, without much subtlety, is laying the groundwork for a broader deplatforming effort against the Bee. Is she on board with the deplatforming movement?"

Yup. The World according to Althouse.

Sebastian said...

The real reason Althouse loathes the BB is that it is produced by men in shorts.

Rabel said...

"Admittedly, I did not grow up as an Evangelical Christian..."

There it is. You've incorrectly identified the Bee as a bible-thumping Christian site and that is the cause of your confusing and absolute rejection of it's humor.

It's not that you have blind spots on particular issues, Althouse. We all do. It's that for such a keen observer of the American scene you have so little insight into your own motivations on certain matters.

That's why they're called blind spots.

Bilwick said...

I find the Babylon Bee funny, but then I have a sick sense of humor, so of course making fun of the stupid and retarded (in this case, "liberals") tickles my funny bone,

Gabriel said...

Late to this party. The Mikklesons have made millions out of Snopes. Very few bloggers make millions. How much they made has come out due to their divorce.

A lot of it is ad revenue, a lot of it came from the Facebook partnership, and a lot of it from donors, "readers" and "non-political organizations" which I can't find any record of.

They have staff, tons of money, it's not just the Mikkelsons staying up late on Usenet after work any more and hasn't been for a decade or more. People should be asking questions about Snopes, just like they should of Southern Poverty Law Center.

Especially when they rate things as fake news and get them deplatformed.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

Every so often Althouse has a "Nope, I did not see that coming!" post. This is definitely one.

It's kind of like the clock that strikes 13..

404 Page Not Found said...

HOLLYWOOD, CA—Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was pumped to attend a taping of The Price Is Right in Hollywood this week. The special guest introduced herself as a U.S. representative and rising star of the Democratic Party. Things got interesting when the game began and every time it was her turn to estimate the price of an item her answer was "free."

Items included a set of Italian leather handbags, an all expenses paid trip to the Bahamas, and a brand new 2019 BMW 330i, at all of which Ocasio-Cortez shouted, "FREE!"

When host Drew Carey asked if Ocasio-Cortez understood the game's rules, she told Carey not to cat-call her and then responded, "Don't hate me cause you ain't me."

She went on to guess that diamond earrings, a set of jet skis, and even a giant pile of cash were all free. Carey unveiled a package containing world-class healthcare and she said, "Definitely free." She was at one point puzzled by a stack of croissants but eventually guessed that they also were free.

Ocasio-Cortez was never able to advance to the game proper, and as the credits rolled she appeared visibly upset. A hot mic picked up comments she made in frustration, claiming that the game was rigged by capitalism and that "everybody knows giant piles of money are free, that's like basic economics 101."

Darkisland said...

Blogger Marcus said...

And is it really fun poisoning pigeons in the park?

Well, I'm prepared

John Henry

TML said...

This is the first thing I've ever read on your blog (that I've been reading for probably ten years now) that made me shake my head and think you're not being totally forthcoming. Forget your opinion of the Babylon Bee. That's fine. I can take it or leave it, too. But to imagine that Snopes doesn't have a responsibility to extreme neutrality based on their history is just wrong. I don't even read Snopes any longer because I don't trust them and feel they have an agenda now.

Milwaukie guy said...

I have to jump way ahead on this thread and stand up for middle school humor. Who can't appreciate the well-crafted fart joke? What are all the Scots and goats jokes if not middle school?

Ken B said...

If I say your post is “False” I am surely implying to some extent that you are trying to fool someone. But BB is obvious, heavy, and clearly labeled satire.

Further, as has been noted, the rating drives the fb algorithm, and probably the google one too. That being so, exactly why would Snopes post ratings of that satire? What else could be the point? To look clueless?

Earnest Prole said...

If you don’t read every story — left, right, “center” — with an eye that it might be satire or even an outright lie, you belong to that breed of animal known as sheeple.

Joe said...

Why not just write "I don't understand satire" and leave it at that?

Charlie Eklund said...

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found
I've got a little list — I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!
There are the pestilential nuisances who write for the loathesome Babylon Bee—
Valentis with their pendulous breasts who pose for photos sideways —
Commenters low on respect but full of gall, like so many rats —
Men in shorts going out in public dressed, if you can believe, like that —
And Libertarians who laugh and laugh and make nice professors cry-
They'd none of 'em be missed — they'd none of 'em be missed!

Ann Althouse said...

“Like most satire sites, BB can be hit or miss. The Hostess thinks they are almost never funny. I think they are usually funny and spot on. No surprise there.”

Be clear: I absolutely never go there are read it. I only know it as stuff on Instapundit, but I assume that’s stuff I’m more likely to enjoy. The religious stuff so many of you are talking about I haven’t read. Feel free to point out something that you think is the Bee at its best.

Scott Patton said...

Maybe the Snopes thing is a re-imagining or reboot of the "Vast right wing conspiracy" of Hillery past. If I remember it correctly, Hillary's beef was that ideas or stories from far right crazies would work their way via Rush Limbaugh and the like into mainstream news sites, networks etc..
A few days ago I saw a twitter post or something trending about elderly folks, parents and relatives passing politically naughty memes around the Facebook or using email, and what to do about it. I smell a connection.

Ann Althouse said...

“It sounds to me like Althouse's loathing might follow from that moment of embarrassment upon realizing she has been tricked.”

Nope. I’m super fast at seeing satire as satire. Can’t remember ever being fooled even for a while. Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.

Ken B said...

AA is super fast at getting satire, yet she wasn’t so fast at first with Titania McGrath. That's because Titania didn’t start out as satire.

Joe said...

Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.

Ah, you don't like satire because you are quick witted.

That may be the most elitist, snobbish thing you've ever written.

gerry said...

Someone who lives in Madison, Wisconsin is just not going to "get" The Babylon Bee.

wbfjrr2 said...

Althouse claims conservatives aren’t funny and have no sense of humor. Terrific projection by AA.

And she believes Snopes is factual. Then again she believes the NYT and WAPO too.

Silly academic.

mockturtle said...

"religious stuff". Ah, now we see the problem....

Daddy Binx said...

When nothing is funny, everything is funny.

Beasts of England said...

'Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.'

Meow!!

Milwaukie guy said...

Wow, getting to page 2. A lot of comments,

I might add that jokes about Afghans and goats are racist. Don't be confused.

RNB said...

Althouse: "Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it." Like: "You enjoy something I don't like. There must be something wrong with you."?

WWMartin said...

Did Snopes ever fact check John Stewart on The Daily Show? You must have really hated that program as well, since the snark used there had the same tone (opposite side) and relationship to reality.

rehajm said...

Who can't appreciate the well-crafted fart joke?

I must say upon finishing a good meal and retiring to the study with friends for cigars and brandy I do appreciate the sagacity of a well-crafted fart joke...

gilbar said...

purplepenquin said...

When Daily Show and SNL skits get passed along as "real news" (ie - Palin seeing Russia from her backyard) then they do review it.


IF you are NOT a LIAR, pp, then how come when a person pastes "Palin seeing Russia from her backyard" into snopes' search box, this is the result?
No results for:
Palin seeing Russia from her backyard
https://www.snopes.com/?s=+Palin+seeing+Russia+from+her+backyard

I'm Full of Soup said...

You have way too much time on your hands Althouse and you sound like that humorless scold Liz Warren today.

gilbar said...

oh, you also get no result for:
Palin i can see Russia from my backyard
and
i can see Russia from my backyard


if you search for Just
Palin
i can see russia from my back yard, is not on the first Eight PAGES of results

if you dig and dig, you can find where they hid (so they could save that they covered it, and they don't say it's False that Palin said it; they say it's "misattributed"

final resul purple penguin == LIAR!

gilbar said...

AND when did snopes.com FINALLY post something about Palin and russia?


Published 29 January 2011

THREE YEARS after the election (more than THREE YEARS AFTER !!)

Charlie Eklund said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

Be clear: I absolutely never go there are read it. I only know it as stuff on Instapundit, but I assume that’s stuff I’m more likely to enjoy.

Let’s be clear: you “absolutely never go there,” meaning to the Babylon Bee, but you know that you would “loathe” it if you did go there. Okaaaaay. I guess that’s the nuanced open mind Madisonians are so famous for.

effinayright said...

rehajm said...
Who can't appreciate the well-crafted fart joke?

I must say upon finishing a good meal and retiring to the study with friends for cigars and brandy I do appreciate the sagacity of a well-crafted fart joke...
****************

OK. How about an old man's advice:

Waste no erection
Trust no fart

effinayright said...

Ann Althouse said...
“It sounds to me like Althouse's loathing might follow from that moment of embarrassment upon realizing she has been tricked.”

Nope. I’m super fast at seeing satire as satire. Can’t remember ever being fooled even for a while. Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.
**************************

Why the snot?

Ken B said...

Althouse is really fast at getting satire. Really fast. But she's not as fast as Donald J Trump! Nobody gets satire faster than Donald Trump. That's why Ann is mad: envy.

rcocean said...

I haven't read all the comments, so I'm just repeating the obvious.

1) Snopes is a left-wing site that pushes "The narrative". They are NOT objective.
2) We don't need someone "fact-checking" Humor or satire. The fact that YOU don't think its funny doesn't mean others see it as humor/satire.
3)Snopes is deliberately fact-checking so they can get facebook/google/etc. to ban them.
4) They're doing this because BBee satirizes the Left.

And that Charlie Brown is what snopes is all about.

rcocean said...

To whole, Facebook/Twitter/Youtube needs to "Fact-check" web-sites and look out for "Fake News" is just an attempt to gate-keep and Censor. Of course, they can't be open and say "Hey we're rich leftists and we don't want ANYONE saying ANYTHING we don't like" so they hide behind "fact checking" and "opposing Racism" and "excluding offensive content". When its just attacking Conservatives and Christians.

Of course, if people weren't morons and spend all their time visiting 3 websites, then 3 social media companies wouldn't control everything.

whitney said...

It seems like the majority comment section hate reads Ann. That must be weird

traditionalguy said...

We surrender. Babylon Bee is not a hill worth dying on. We hate the BB.(anything for a good grade)

rcocean said...

The whole "fact checking" Thing is a Con. Its amazing how stupid people are. Yes, the Wapo, NYT, and all the liberal media, stop being liberals and become "objective" because they say they are "fact checking".

How dumb do you have to be to believe that? Yes, it would be great if we had truly objective people out their looking SOLELY AT FACTS. But we don't. That wasn't the plan.

rcocean said...

People find different things funny. SO if Althouse doesn't find the Babylon Bee funny. I'm not shocked. Usually most social liberals play a game where they find Satire of Christianity, Patriotism, Conservatism, and Christianity "Hilarious" "edgy" and "irreverent". And satire of the Left-wing "Tasteless" "Nasty" and "Not funny".

They're the establishment and have been for 50 years, but they always act like they're brave little rebels making fun of those stuffy Rich Right-wingers. They never want to admit all the rebels and iconoclasts are on the other side.

alanc709 said...

Snopes.com isn't fact-checking, it's enforcing propaganda.

rcocean said...

The problem satirizing Liberals is that you can't tell the crazy from the real. When a rich white woman who lives in a neighborhood with almost no blacks, runs for POTUS and says in a national debate that: "We" need to give reparations to black people with "our" tax money because she's a honorary black woman, and they deserve it. How can you satirize that?

Its so crazy, that no one would said it in public 25 years ago.

Ken B said...

Rcocean
You broke the rule. Provide a link or delete your comment!

Darkisland said...

I don't think anyone here is complaining that you don't like the Bee. I certainly was not. You like things I don't think are funny, I like things you don't think are funny. I think I could say the same of every other person in the world. To each their own.

I think the complaint, in my case for sure, I think in others, is that you say you "loathe" the Bee. That's a pretty odd thing to say. I find Woody Allen unfunny and don't watch him but I certainly don't "loathe" him. What is it about the Bee that you find offensive.

Jerry Seinfeld could be "offended as a comedian" by the Bee. What would be your rationale?

The other thing, and far worse, that I saw in your post was that you seemed to be getting dangerously close to saying that because you find the Bee loathesome, it would be no big deal if Snopes (and/or others) got them deplatformed/demonetized/unpersoned. I know you did not say that but I felt that you got close to it.

How would you feel if one of your faves, David Sedaris or that Wallace guy was being systematically attacked in attempts to deplatform them?

You also denied that it is happening. When I and others called you on that you demanded links OR DELETE YOUR NOTE!!! Not just links but properly formatted links! When I and others posted links, there was no thank you, sorry or anything else.

I don't know if you listen to Scott Adams podcast. (It would be really nice if he published a transcript) but he talks about how this happens to him if he uses certain words. He is pretty media savvy and has gone under the hood and looked at the nuts and bolts.

Tim Poole discusses it in detail on his daily podcast as well. He has been deranked, de monetized and derecommended to the point where he is moving his considerable business to another, non-YouTube channel. I wish he did a transcript too since I don't have time most days to listen to him.

On the other hand, the NoAgenda boys also discuss this in depth and have considerable experience dealing with advertisers. They think that a lot of the problem is brand safety rather than politics and have explained in depth why and how. They do think there is politics as well. And the brand safety is a political thing as well. If P&G gets advertised on a Milo or Alex Jones YouTube they will get some business from the fans. But there are also a bunch of fascists (progressives) who monitor these channels and organize boycotts and badmouth campaigns against P&G. They don't need this so they stick to "Brand safe" cat videos and such.

(Continued)

Darkisland said...

(Continued)

It doesn't take much. in the 90s if an ad ran on one of the national TV networks, 100 letters of complaint would get the ad seriously looked at. 500 would get it immediately pulled. That is for an ad seen by 10s of millions of viewers.

It is a serious problem. I don't think enough people take it seriously. "Oh, Snopes is trying to get the Bee unpersoned. Well, I loathe the Bee so it's not my problem."

What happens when the fascists come for the Althouse blog? Think it can't happen? You cover enough topics here and get into enough controversial matters here. Sooner or later you will piss someone like Media Matters off about something and they will come for you.

John Henry

Darkisland said...


Blogger whitney said...

It seems like the majority comment section hate reads Ann. That must be weird

Just the opposite, Whitney. We love to read Ann. So much so that when we see she is wrong we will tell her so. I doubt that we change her opinions very often.

Most of the time I don't find any reason to disagree with her. Nor do most of the regular commenters. But she is wrong big time here.

One of the things I really like about this blog is the diversity of her posts from silly to serious. All of them are interesting to some, most are interesting to many. I also really enjoy the diversity of the commenter's opinions. Even the ones I disagree with.

John Henry

effinayright said...

Darkisland, she just told us she loathes the Bee, in part because she thinks only slow people "get" it.

And they "get" it very slowly. You know, the "extra chromosome crowd".

OTOH Smart people "get" Kathy Griffin. She's hilarious, doncha know.....ditto Wanda Sykes. Or how about that laff riot Michelle Wolf?

And as some clown said the other day, conservatives just aren't funny. Never mind Kelsey Grammer, Dennis Miller, Nick Searcy, Larry the Cable Guy, Joe Rogan, Steve Crowder, Rush Limbaugh...

Of course when *they* perform, you can always hear the pause before the laughter, as their audience has to sort things out before they "get" it...

That's Miss Ann's snotty take, in any case.

If she took that position regarding conservatives in her law classes, it wouldn't surprise me one goddamn bit.

Rabel said...

"So, yeah, I'm defending Snopes. I don't see the problem with what it's doing. I'm sure it leans left, but those who are attacking it lean right. Websites have political leanings. Big deal. So what? That's not worth getting excited about. Who's doing anything wrong here? I don't see much of a problem anywhere."

- Ann Althouse, 2019

"The liberal urge — which is what motivates The Onion's writers — is to repress the speech it disapproves of. And that is the real threat to free speech that we experience today."

- Ann Althouse, 2010

Hippogryph said...

Snopes was supposedly a sort of rumor-buster and fact checker.

The site has changed. These Babylon Bee matters and other attempts to police satire and opinion are signs that they've fallen to some very specific political temptations of their own.

Sebastian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

"Sooner or later you will piss someone like Media Matters off about something and they will come for you."

In a way, I appreciate the fact that Althouse comments as if she were an individual, a lone blogger in Madison, WI, creatively expressing her creative take on the world. But many commenters here read blog posts in context: there's a culture war going on, there are people out there who want to destroy what we believe, the institutions we hold dear, and, since deplorable racists don't deserve to live, us.

When Althouse reads about Snopes panning Babylon Bee, she thinks: serves them right, they aren't funny, and when they present satire as semi-factual, they should be called on it. I stand by Snopes. Ain't I brave and independent and quick and individually myself?

When many commenters read about Snopes panning BB, they think: here we go again, bunch of progs targeting a conservative site, trying to get them to fold and deplatformed, "fact-checking" satire in a way they'd never go after fellow progs, obviously acting in bad faith, the usual. Ain't we cynical and clear-sighted and collectively wise? We are.

Althouse tries to live her life as if there is no culture war going on. That is admirable. She thinks she is safe. But she isn't. She can be snoped tomorrow. We all know what will happen then: progs will pile on, we righties will stand by her.

FrankiM said...

“When many commenters read about Snopes panning BB, they think: here we go again, bunch of progs targeting a conservative site, trying to get them to fold and deplatformed, "fact-checking" satire in a way they'd never go after fellow progs, obviously acting in bad faith, the usual. Ain't we cynical and clear-sighted and collectively wise? We are.

Althouse tries to live her life as if there is no culture war going on. That is admirable. She thinks she is safe. But she isn't. She can be snoped tomorrow. We all know what will happen then: progs will pile on, we righties will stand by her.l

Althouse and her blog isn’t important or well known enough for Snopes to take her on.

rcocean said...

Defending Snopes vs. the Babylon Bee is a clever way to win favor with Snopes and not get banned.

I like Althouse. And if sucking up to Snopes lets her stay on Blogger, well, that's OK. Its not like B.Bee needs ALthouse.

Night Owl said...

The Babylon Bee must be doing something right to be getting so much attention. I may have to check them out.

The left tries to hurt them by calling them "fake news" and it may backfire and make them more popular than ever. Kinda like Chick-fil-a. I'd never heard of Chick-fil-a until the left called them out, and now I eat there at least once a month. The BB must be happy for the free advertising. And they should thank Althouse.

Michael P said...

Facebook penalizes people, pages, and sites that have "too much" fake news, according to their fact checkers: https://www.facebook.com/help/publisher/182222309230722

Facebook recognizes that "satire" is a separate category than true/false/mixture; Snopes does not, and so anyone who uses the ratings that Snopes publishes on their web site is using a distorted perspective.

I believe Google and other big social media companies take essentially the same approach as Facebook: Collect "fact check" results, and algorithmically penalize people and organizations that share false stories.

Snopes appears to be intentionally abusing their trusted position to get these third parties to punish the Babylon Bee.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Defending Snopes vs. the Babylon Bee is a clever way to win favor with Snopes and not get banned.
I like Althouse. And if sucking up to Snopes lets her stay on Blogger...


Snopes-- precursor to the "Ministry of Truth" ?

Will we come to love Big Brother the hard way?

"First they came for the BEE, but I was not a satirist..."

Big Mike said...

Who can't appreciate the well-crafted fart joke?

Mildly off thread, but the oldest known joke is a fart joke. True! According to linguists, the cuneiform writing baked into a clay tablet translates as “a thing never seen before — a young wife sat on her husband’s lap without farting.” Okay, I guess you needed to be there.

So Dave Barry works in an ancient and honorable tradition. Well, ancient anyway.

We can now return to lambasting Althouse for “loathing” a website she claims not to have actually gone to and read.

Ken B said...

It is ironic to see Trumpkins misunderstanding Althouse’s shot about people who slowly get the satire. Her response is perfect Trump, and should not be taken at face value.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

somewhere out there, someone loathes Althouse,

but has never really paid much attention to her blog.

Gahrie said...

Nope. I’m super fast at seeing satire as satire. Can’t remember ever being fooled even for a while. Maybe those who enjoy the Bee enjoy it because they are slow and therefore experience pride when they get it.
**************************

Why the snot?


She gets pissed when she feels that we aren't giving her her due deference.

Ken B said...

Btw, I agree with those who think Althouse loathes the Bee because of the targets, not the style of humor. I cite as evidence her oft-mentioned fondness for Mad Magazine.

rehajm said...

Add Rabel’s Althouse quotes to her CBF contradictions.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

maybe Ann was just Rickrolling us,

without the link to the Astley song

langford peel said...

"somewhere out there, someone loathes Althouse,"

That would be me.

navillus said...

The Babylon Bee is like an abortion- if you don't like it, don't have one.
Ann, if you hate the Bee, why are you clicking on Instapundit's links to the Bee? Don't you see the URL when you hover over it? Is this your version of the old feminist joke where the punchline is always- "That's not funny?"
Talk about a bad take.

The Babylon Bee is hilarious, as is The Onion. Funny how The Onion never gets fact-checked by Snopes.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

"Could it BEE......Satire ??? ---Church Lady

navillus said...

https://babylonbee.com/news/new-evidence-suggests-al-sharpton-immediately-arrived-at-scene-where-cain-killed-abel-to-cry-racism

Ha Ha, this stuff is great!

Saint Croix said...

the oldest known joke is a fart joke.

Google "Babylon Bee" and "fart" and you get...

Cowpocalypse

PluralThumb said...

"If Israel is so innocent, then why do they insist on being Jews?"
From my perspective, that statement rings as an inside joke.
The onion ? That’s a vegetable !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbh3CLXD5Ws

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