July 15, 2019

Let's look at Trump's now-infamous question, "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."

It is a question, isn't it? There's no question mark. That makes it feel more like an imperative. It reminds me of the saying I remember from the Vietnam Era, "America, love it or leave it."

Here's the entire statement — a tripartite tweet (1, 2, 3):
So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly........and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how.... ....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
That's from 22 hours ago. He got a lot of pushback — including Power Line's "A Blunder of Epic Proportions" — but he didn't walk it back. He's Donald Trump; he doubled down. From 11 hours ago — a 2-part tweet (1, 2):
So sad to see the Democrats sticking up for people who speak so badly of our Country and who, in addition, hate Israel with a true and unbridled passion. Whenever confronted, they call their adversaries, including Nancy Pelosi, “RACIST.” Their disgusting language..... ....and the many terrible things they say about the United States must not be allowed to go unchallenged. If the Democrat Party wants to continue to condone such disgraceful behavior, then we look even more forward to seeing you at the ballot box in 2020!
1. Who is he talking about? He doesn't name names, so it's an invitation for others to do the defining. I see many people talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and expressing outrage that Trump would speak of her as an immigrant when she was born in the United States. But he didn't name her. His words exclude her. She's really got a hold on people's mind!

2. What, exactly, is supposed to be racist here? Clearly, these tweets cause some readers to feel that racism is being expressed, but it's hard to find it in these words. I see "RACIST" but that's in the context of ostensibly sticking up for Nancy Pelosi. Some Democrats are calling her racist, and that shows how unfairly quick they are to see racism. Defending Pelosi, he implicitly defends himself.

3. Is it xenophobia? He's not saying get out and stay out. He's saying don't criticize the United States if you immigrated from a worse country. Go back to that place, fix it, and "The come back and show us... how it is done." He's welcoming the immigrant back, after these steps are taken. Of course, it's unrealistic to expect someone to return to a place they left and become involved in changing that place, but it's a figure of speech. He seems to be saying that those who were not born here, who chose to move here, have a special obligation to express love for America, that they should tone down their criticism of America.

4. If telling these Congresswomen to tone it down is wrong, Nancy Pelosi was wrong too. (See "Tensions Between Pelosi and Progressive Democrats of ‘the Squad’ Burst Into Flame" (NYT).) So, again, Trump lines himself up with Pelosi. How do you defend Pelosi without defending Trump? In this view, it's a clever (and cruel) rhetorical move by Trump.

5. Here's Ernest Tubb in 1965:



Well, I'm gettin' mighty tired of seein' hippies runnin' wild... It's kinda hard to understand when you read about a man/That's talkin' 'bout love and knockin' the place he was born/If things don't go their way, they could always move away/That's what democracy means anyway....

380 comments:

1 – 200 of 380   Newer›   Newest»
Tank said...

Even though he has failed on immigration, ya gotta love the guy.

Also, entertainment!

Dave Begley said...

1. The “and then cone back and show us how it is done” is ignored by the Dems and Fake News.

2. Third world counties are mostly failed cultures and failed cultures.

3 . We can’t talk honestly about race in this country because no one wants to be called a racist. Big problem! Ask Biden.

Big Mike said...

He seems to be saying that those who were not born here, who chose to move here, have a special obligation to express love for America,

No, I don’t think that’s it, exactly. Telling immigrants not to bad mouth our institutions is different from saying that they have a “special obligation to express love for America.”

stevew said...

Once again challenging norms and upsetting the elites. As you so nicely assess, he's calling out behaviors and ideas that are anti-American and contrary to America's interest. Simultaneously he is forcing the Democrat party to either accept or disown the radical leftists in their crowd. I wouldn't be surprised if he is attempting to get the Dem leadership to rally around AOC, Tlaib, et al - that should help his prospects for re-election.

Tregonsee said...

The basic rules are that when a conservative, or a non-liberal which more accurately describes DJT, says something, is is scrutinized for any possible way to construe it as racist, sexist, xenophobic, ignorant, or stupid. No room is allowed for a slip of the tongue or inarticulate formalism which requires careful reading to understand. Event if the intent is clear, it is perfectly acceptable to juxtapose disjoint sections and repeat them endlessly. "Chancellorsville" and "immigrants are animals" for two clear, unambiguous cases.

Dave Begley said...

578 comments at Power Line. That has to be a record.

wendybar said...

He isn't wrong.

GRW3 said...

It's what the Normals are thinking. One of the things Trump does is put the Normal opinion on issues on the mainstage. That's why a lot of people like him. No he doesn't act "Presidential" because for the Normals, acting Presidential means a Republican being silent while vile forces thrash them and the country they love. They're tired of that. OK, only one was born ex-US but two of the other three espouse the policies and government structures of their parents homelands. AOC is welcome to go to the socialist paradise of Venezuela and fix it, make that socialism work.

AllenS said...

We don't care if Trump is not precise in his words, we know what he's talking about.

Unknown said...

This is the greatest happening of my lifetime

Unknown said...

He says what everyone thinks.

gspencer said...

"America, love it or leave it"

Applied then.

Applies today.

Unknown said...

Forcing them to band together to defend their worst

is instinctive genius.

Unknown said...

Gosh I hope he doesn't divide us along race lines

Like Saint Barack the Pure

Henry said...

Trump is good at adding energy to the system.

Remember all the analysis of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World?

Trump is Chaos. He's the big W. He's insane, he's sugarcane.

Pelosi is Order.

Of course, if you think of AOC or that congresswoman from Detroit, the congresswomen implicit in Trump's reference to congresswomen, they also are adding energy.

They're dancing the same dance.

Wilbur said...

ET is a great way to start the morning, although I could do without the MOR background chorus.

That's Jack Greene on drums.

rhhardin said...

He's not only roiling the dems but expressing that if you don't buy the constitution you can't be an American. The constitution is our rule book and the only thing that makes Americans Americans.

Freedom to speak and ability to draw mohammad without being killed are natural American reactions. "I don't like it but he's free to do it."

If shiria law seems like a good idea to you, you can't fit in here.

Not that you can't say it, but you don't fit. The advice column.

As for being born here, the second generation is the most vehemently anti-American. Picked up wrong culture. The immigrant is usually grateful.

Mr. Forward said...

“Sweet Loretta Modern
thought she was a woman,
But she was another man.
All the girls around her
said she had it coming
But she gets it while she can.
Get back! Get back!
Get back to where you once belonged”

Lennon - McCartney

Robert Cook said...

Anyone who lives here has a right and an obligation to criticize those aspects of our nation that we each find wanting. This is part of our duty as citizens of a purportedly "self-governing" nation. Anyone who declares, (in essence), "America, love it or leave it" doesn't know the first damned thing about the nation they adore like simple-minded children or idiots. Those in position of any kind of authority who say it are telling us to shut up and mind our place as cannon fodder or wage slaves.

Demanding we express only adoration of America (or keep quiet otherwise) is anti-American.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

"A blunder of epic proportions"? Lol.

There appear to be lot of righties out there who are still scurrying back to the cuckbox every time there's a dustup.

It's like they haven't figured out what kind of times we live in and are pining for the post-Trump days when politics will return to "normal".

Robert Cook said...

"He says what everyone thinks."


Hahahaha! No. He doesn't.

Ann Althouse said...

"578 comments at Power Line. That has to be a record."

There's your trick to get a lot of comments. Say something your readers really disagree with.

Robert Cook said...

"This is the greatest happening of my lifetime"

Poor you!

Robert Cook said...

"We don't care if Trump is not precise in his words, we know what he's talking about."

Yes...we do.

Ann Althouse said...

"Sweet Loretta Modern..."

Martin.

And another thing said...

People keep telling you black is white and white is black and speech is violence when you do it, and violence is speech when they do it, they are the cult. Trump is the deprogrammer.

Ann Althouse said...

"Remember all the analysis of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World? Trump is Chaos. He's the big W. He's insane, he's sugarcane...."

Did you notice the MMMMW amount of money, $350,000, was in the news the other day? "Epstein Paid $350,000 to Possible Witnesses Against Him, Prosecutors Say" (NYT).

I Callahan said...

Hahahaha! No. He doesn't.

RC - you live in NYC. You wouldn’t have a clue what normals think. His point stands.

And another thing said...

"There appear to be lot of righties out there who are still scurrying back to the cuckbox every time there's a dustup.”

That’s exactly what I thought when I read Driscoll’s post on Instapundit.

Temujin said...

He clearly does not live by the 'less is more' principal. I wish he did. He'd be at 60% approval if he did. But that said, I've learned to just sit back and watch what happens every time Trump says THE BIG THING and the media goes all breathless, and Dems go all breathless and it's all we hear for days and days or weeks and weeks and something has got to change so let's change the entire country starting with impeaching this guy for bad thoughts stated indelicately.

What he said is true. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Ayanna Pressley all have little love for this country as it. They want to change it and not in a small way. Entirely. And they regularly display racism (anti-white), sexism (anti-male), and anti-semitism. It's fine with the media and young Dems if you're a progressive and say these things, and apparently some racism is good racism and some racism is bad racism. But for most Americans of all shades, it is what it is. Hateful. Distasteful. These congresspeople hate America. Using their own words to describe the Green New Deal: “Do you guys think of it as a climate thing? Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” Watch Tlaib sometime. She's a mess of a person. And she does not like you.

Trump tweets for reaction. Again- he's got everyone focused on these 4 people who empirically do not like this country as is. I'm going to get past this breathless Monday to see how this actually plays out long term.

Unknown said...

> Anyone who lives here has a right and an obligation to criticize those aspects of our nation that we each find wanting. This is part of our duty as citizens of a purportedly "self-governing" nation.

Other than criticism was racism from 2008 to 2016

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Robert Cook: "America, love it or leave it" doesn't know the first damned thing about the nation they adore like simple-minded children or idiots. Those in position of any kind of authority who say it are telling us to shut up and mind our place as cannon fodder or wage slaves.

Yeah, sure, whatever Cookie. That pretty much covers what's going on here.

Your marked lack of interest in looking at events outside the frame of your own stale '60s sloganeering contrasts amusingly with your self-perception as somebody who doesn't buy into the Man's bullshit like the rest of the benighted rubes here.

Obadiah said...

What's embarrassing is the author's attempt to force-fit Trump's comments into a pre-existing format. He says, "I assume Trump is talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her “Squad,” ... Trump’s rant is not just wrong, but embarrassing. AOC, for example, grew up in a wealthy suburb of New York." Start with an incorrect assumption, then show how wrong it is. Brilliant!

Hagar said...

For Ilhan Omar's problems, read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's books "Infidel" and "Nomad." These are about her adventures when she first escaped from Somalia and arrived in The Netherlands and are very well written (particularly if they were first written in Dutch; no trace of Dutch remains).

Hirsi Ali was amazed how nice the Dutch were to her and thought she owed it to them to respond in kind, learn about them and adapt to their ways if she was going to live among them. Which she was, no way was she going back to Somalia. So she was scared, but being a Daoud woman and the daughter of a chief, set forth with her head held high, though with her hijab in her pocket and wearing sneakers in case it should become necessary to run fast.
She also describes how many of her fellow Somali refuges could not bring themselves to mentally leave Somalia and adapt to Dutch society and became very miserable and complaining as a result.

This is where Ilhan Omar is coming from - she is trying to remain a Somali tribes woman while living in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

And another thing said...

Trump is Cromwell, and partisans of state power are pining for a restoration of order and stability, you know, the monarchy they crave. Desperate to put the deplorables in their place because they are scary.

traditionalguy said...

Trump haters were exposed for using this cheap shot opportunity to pretend he told them to leave the USA. He actually challenged them to apply their Sharia attacks on the desolate war torn ethnic cleansing murder fields of the Muslim expansion areas that spawned them.

That is the foil he held upto show even Nancy Pelosi is an infidel under a Sharia blitzkreig attack along with all American Jews and Christians.

rwnutjob said...

I, for one, am sick of people equating nationality with race.

rhhardin said...

The rule of charity (Augustine) is think the best of somebody rather than the worst. Trump for instance.

He's having fun.

Also closing off a meme path for the dems. Will they notice.

Notice that I seldom put question marks in questions. The question mark indicates a pitch rise, which is not wanted usually.

They're react but not notice. They'll think the meme still works.

Grinding noise is sand in gears.

iowan2 said...

This is it!!!!!Trump has finally crossed the rubicon and his voters will turn away from him!

for the 20th time, this is it...

Again to remind everyone. President Trump does his own wet work. First this is not very controversial. Its not like calling the old heads of the democrat party, the ones that have spent the life, working for civil rights, racists. That's a bigger story. the LEADERSHIP of the Democrat Party are RACIST! According to the true Democrats that came to power in 2018.

But what Trump expressed would normally been said by a person of lesser status, allowing the President to not soil himself doing politics. President Trump does his own wet work.

rhhardin said...

Questions are already indicated by subject verb reversal. Why is it necessary to further indicate voice pitch.

John henry said...

Just a reminder that AOC is not Puerto Rican. She is a Nyorican from Yonkers.

We have plenty of problems here including

1 high govt officials arrested last week by fbi

2. Telegram chat scandal which cost about 6 high govt officials their job. Governor is probably gone too. I give him to Tuesday

https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/english/nota/disclosedchatcontentssparkwidespreadcondemnationofpuertoricogovernor-2505328/

So you want to send her back to Yonkers, fine. Not here, though. We've got plenty of home grown crazy without adding her particular unique flavor.

John Henry

Henry said...

I'm reading the Trump defenders here, and if I have this right, Trump clearly wasn't criticizing the people that clearly deserve to be criticized.

I dunno. Maybe he was talking about Canadians.

Paco Wové said...

"That’s exactly what I thought when I read Driscoll’s post on Instapundit."

Yeah, poor Ed. How's he gonna say "But Dems R the Real Racists!" now?

rhhardin said...

Caesar crossed the Rubicon going back to Rome, instead of staying in France eating cheese.

Robert Cook said...

"RC - you live in NYC. You wouldn’t have a clue what normals think. His point stands."

Why do you assume you are a "normal?" And why would you think being one of the borg of "normals" is a good thing, or indicative of rightthink? Human progress has never been the product of "normals," but of "abnormals" fighting against the quicksand of ignorance, fear, hatred, superstition, and groupthink always so intrinsic to "normals."

Henry said...

How dare anyone accuse Trump of attacking the people his supporters already despise?

Mr. Forward said...

Sweet Loretta Modern formerly Martin is currently single and living with Not so Sweet Martha Lorraine.

Unknown said...

> I, for one, am sick of people equating nationality with race.

Its gotta be Dem Jooz behind it

rhhardin said...

January 20 of this year— is filled with profanity-laced, misogynistic, homophobic, and sexual comments from Rosselló and other members of the group attacking opposition leaders, fellow party members, journalists and activist groups.

Composition challenge. Fucking queer cunts.

Shouting Thomas said...

For some reason I thought Ernest Tubb was gone before the hippie era.

I'd refer to Merle Haggard's "Okie from Muskogee" but I always thought Merle was tongue in cheek about never smoking the weed and taking the LSD. Plus, what's wrong with making a party out of lovin'?

The best thing about Prez Trump is his unrelenting attack on PC.

rhhardin said...

Puerto Rico has an average IQ of 84, which may explain its problems.

Shouting Thomas said...

Cookie the commie America hater is progressing all us humans!

Thanks Cookie.

Ken B said...

Good analysis. The key points are
1 he says they should fix then return.
2 he is addressing those talking about how the government should be run. He is challenging their *ideas*. Here is an analogy: Trump goes to church and preaches about marital fidelity; the preacher tells him to get his own house in order and then come back.

Paco Wové said...

I assumed Trump was thinking mainly of that odious Somali woman from Minneapolis. I can think of no clearer signal that our immigration assimilation processes are thoroughly broken than her presence in the House. Pluralizing that one instance was Trump being his usual sloppy self.

And another thing said...

Trump of attacking the people his supporters already despise?

We have long been aware of your reading comprehension problem Henry. Did you read his actual Tweets or the coverage of his tweets. I know you like to think of yourself as smart, but smart people go to primary sources.

Henry said...

This is the primary source for Althouse commenters.

Robert Cook said...

"I assumed Trump was thinking mainly of that odious Somali woman from Minneapolis. I can think of no clearer signal that our immigration assimilation processes are thoroughly broken than her presence in the House."

Actually, her being elected to the House shows a glimmer of what can be great about America.

MadisonMan said...

I was in a car yesterday listening to Traffic and Weather on the 8s, and I found the slanted reporting on this very obvious. But do people who live in a bubble also see it that way? From my FB feed, maybe not.

And another thing said...

“Trump clearly wasn't criticizing the people that clearly deserve to be criticized.”

Did somebody say Trump wasn’t criticizing people? This is what I mean. If I want to read clueless comments, I will read Howard.

John henry said...

Nah,

The problem here is that we've been on the dem plantation too long.

We're like Detroit but sunnier and windier.

John Henry

And another thing said...

“This is the primary source for Althouse commenters.”

Another stupid comment, unsupported by the facts.

rhhardin said...

Human progress has never been the product of "normals," but of "abnormals" fighting against the quicksand of ignorance, fear, hatred, superstition, and groupthink always so intrinsic to "normals."

Good analogy. If you fight quicksand, you sink.

Paco Wové said...

"a glimmer of what can be great about America."

Don't keep us in suspense. What's the 'great' part?

And another thing said...

Supposed to be a nice day. You guys who let the MSM do your thinking for you, enjoy what they have planned for you. I have some living to do.

stevew said...

Another headline at Powerline: "DEMOCRATS START TO WORRY ABOUT RETAINING THE HOUSE"

They can't seem to connect the dots with Trump's tweets of the last couple of days, though Steven Hayward comes close in his dissent in the "Blunder" post.

Saw a report that shows AOC and the Squad have high recognition in swing states, but that they are seriously upside down on the favorable/unfavorable ratio.

Pelosi is trying to protect the non-Squad members and keep the House. Trump is trying to exploit this fracture in the Dems.

rhhardin said...

Actually, her being elected to the House shows a glimmer of what can be great about America.

The stupid have a voice in congress. But that's been going on forever. That's what elections are about. The women's vote.

John henry said...

Not Okie, ST. You are right that it is parody.

Merle's "walkin on the fightin'side of me" is more apt and what I first thought of.

"when you're running down my country well you're walkin on the fightin side of me"

John Henry

Dave Begley said...

We are all from somewhere else. The Left constantly reminds us that we are a nation of (legal) immigrants. I’ve got no interest in going back to Ireland or Poland. They are not great.

Major meltdown now on MSNBC. Foaming.

Unknown said...


Illin' Omar on Somalia National Day



Ilhan Omar

@IlhanMN
Soomaliyeey Toosoo
Toosoo isku tiirsada eey
Hadba kiina taag daraneey
Taageera weligiineey.

Happy Independence Day Somalia 🇸🇴 #1stluuyo

Somalia hanoolaato ❤️❤️

“Happy Independence Day Somalia,” Omar tweeted July 1 before adding “Somalia hanoolaato,” which translates into “Long live Somalia.”

The congresswoman’s celebratory tweet also included a passage from Somali’s previous national anthem that translates roughly into English as “Somalis, wake up, wake up and support each other. Support your country. Support them forever.”

----

Omar this 4th of July

lhan Omar

@IlhanMN
Today gives us all a chance to reflect on how far we have come as a country and how much further we have to go to achieve full equality for all people.

We are at a tipping point for progress right now. ✊🏽

Happy 4th of July! 🇺🇸

Bob Boyd said...

The Fightin' Side Of Me - Merle Haggard, 1970

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way they have to live here in this country
Harpin' on the wars we fight
And gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be
And I don't mind 'em switchin' sides
And standin' up for things they believe in
But when they're runnin' down our country, man
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me


They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me
Runnin' down a way of life
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep
If you don't love it, leave it
Let this song that I'm singin' be a warnin'
When you're runnin' down our country, hoss
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me

Jeff Brokaw said...

It is just historical fact most governments in human history have been horribly corrupt and existed only to enrich the powerful snd connected, and that is still true today.

There was no concept of God-given individual rights — that are not granted by government and therefore cannot be taken away by government — until the Founders invented that revolutionary idea. It changed the course of history of the entire world. We did that.

More specifically, the people who want to emigrate here come overwhelmingly from such places, for obvious reasons.

Jumping all over Trump for pointing out facts says ... what exactly? That the speaker knows nothing about the world around them, or the history of world governments?

Kevin said...

How do you defend Pelosi without defending Trump? In this view, it's a clever (and cruel) rhetorical move by Trump.

That was my first thought.

He’s inoculating himself against charges of racism.

The press will now tell us why Trump and Pelosi are different.

And they will expose their inability to be neutral umpires in doing so.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Henry: "How dare anyone accuse Trump of attacking the people his supporters already despise?"

"[Twitter] is the primary source for Althouse commenters."


Channeling Howard this morning, Henry? You're usually a cut or two above his lame style.

Beasts of England said...

'Actually, her being elected to the House shows a glimmer of what can be great about America.'

I love it when an unsupported premise is presented as a conclusion...

Kevin said...

Crazy like a fox:

The poll — taken in May, before Speaker Pelosi’s latest run-in with AOC and the three other liberal House freshmen known as “The Squad” — included 1,003 likely general-election voters who are white and have two years or less of college education.

These are the “white, non-college voters” who embraced Donald Trump in 2016 but are needed by Democrats in swing House districts.

The group that took the poll shared the results with Axios on the condition that it not be named, because the group has to work with all parts of the party.

The findings:

Ocasio-Cortez was recognized by 74% of voters in the poll; 22% had a favorable view.
Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota — another member of The Squad — was recognized by 53% of the voters; 9% (not a typo) had a favorable view.

Socialism was viewed favorably by 18% of the voters and unfavorably by 69%.

Capitalism was 56% favorable; 32% unfavorable.

“Socialism is toxic to these voters,” said the top Democrat.


https://www.axios.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-poll-democrats-2020-aeaa3771-f142-4059-b79e-1fed569dfdf9.html

rhhardin said...

AP news is really after Trump for the tweets. Never heard such blatant dem talking points in a news story.

Paco Wové said...

Trump was probably thinking about the noisy collective entity calling itself Justice Democrats – they seem to have a penchant for running far-left immigrants or first-generation offspring of immigrants for office.

William said...

The American Adam. You're supposed to be reborn when you enter this country. It happened to the Europeans. Our Germans were--in the 20th century anyway--much nicer than Germany's Germans. People here of English descent are nowhere near as as snobbish and class conscious as the people they left behind in England. The Irish? Well, while we still retain a few teeny weenie character flaws, there were no Magdalene laundries in America. The Italians, the Slavs, Russian Jews: they're all much better people here than they would have been if they had remained in their shit hole countries......Are only people of European descent allowed to think of their countries of origin as worse places than America?

Howard said...

Blogger GRW3 said...It's what the Normals are thinking. One of the things Trump does is put the Normal opinion on issues on the mainstage. That's why a lot of people like him.

It's pathologically abnormal to repeatedly refer to you and your cohort as "normals".

buwaya said...

Cookie is so wrong.
Probably because he is in the wrong profession.
Human progress is the result, exclusively, of advances in technology.
Not science, technology.
And this happens because of engineering, that is, technical design and problem solving.
Thats it - the rest of everything is entertainment and power struggles.
Sound and fury signifying nothing.
There is absolutely nothing else to "progress".

And engineering is an incremental, collective endeavor. Its made up of layers upon layers of small improvements, added to by generation after generation of humble men.

The public stories about all this, of oppressed geniuses overcoming some evil conservative consensus, are in the main simply lies.

Howard said...

Blogger AllenS said... We don't care if Trump is not precise in his words, we know what he's talking about.

Hearing the dog whistle.

Wilbur said...

"Demanding we express only adoration of America (or keep quiet otherwise) is anti-American. "

I agree. But I've never heard anyone in my life say or write anything resembling such a hateful thought. Never. But if you have, please tell us who.

It's just another leftist lie.

Paco Wové said...

This kerfluffle will all have been worth it, if only because it gave us this "tweet":

"What people need to see in this newly formed @maureendowd /@SpeakerPelosi / @realDonaldTrump axis of shevil is that white supremacy relies on dismissing, silencing, and undermining women of color.

Putting them in their place by any means necessary.


"Axis of shevil"! And this from the WaPo "Global Opinions Editor" (not surprisingly, somebody who considers "American" third on her list of nationalities).

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Cook: Actually, her being elected to the House shows a glimmer of what can be great about America.

What's that then? Politics motivated by rancid racial and cultural animosity, informed by brain-dead ideologies of ressentiment? Not enough extant corruption, racism and tribalism in America for ya right now, Cookie?

Plenty of places on earth where the levels of glory you seek have already been achieved. But you're right - if we want to play in those exalted leagues, then having somebody like Omar elected to the house is indeed of hopeful glimmer.

Craig Howard said...

This is where Ilhan Omar is coming from - she is trying to remain a Somali tribes woman while living in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Some Muslims appear to like the trappings of life in the West but cling to the social and religious traditions that would preclude those trappings.

Somewhat like liberal Californians who move to Texas for the cheap housing and plentiful jobs only to vote into office other liberals who whose policies would make those impossible.

Rory said...

"abnormals" fighting against the quicksand"

The normals are the ones who realize they got out of the quicksand fifty years ago. The abnormals are still yelling "quicksand!" every time they see a puddle. The children of the abnormals are walking around with buckets of water, making puddles.

Howard said...

buwaya puti: wrong again. science and mathematics are the backbone of engineering. also, you describe how civil engineering progresses, incrementally by teams of 1x engineers. this is the uniformitarian view. however, reality is more of a punctuated equilibrium mechanism that produces jumps and hyperbolic inflection points that gets us to the next gentle slope of uniformitarian progress.

i think one of the things you don't understand about the american psyche is we are a nation of hot-rodders, not a nation of careful plodders.

buwaya said...

The other purpose of the Trumpian tweets is to provoke such media reactions.
They are absurd to many, and ring false.
The media make many more intense in their anti-Trump zeal, but they also reduce the credibility of the media system among many others.

Thats been a Trump strategy for a long time, to make his opponents wear out their weapons through overuse, or misuse.

EDH said...

I prefer my formulation, which actually won the Freakonomics Six Word Motto for the United States Contest in the NYT.

"Our worst critics prefer to stay."

Fernandistein said...

Some Democrats are calling [Pelosi] racist, and that shows how unfairly quick they are to see racism.

Pelosi is a racist, and she makes that clear on her website:

"We look to the Supreme Court to act wisely[sic] in the Michigan case and uphold affirmative action."

Yes, it's just anti-Asian/anti-white racism, so move along, nothing to see here.

++

Also - Somali Immigrant Goes Back to Somalia to Make It a Better Place by Changing the Racist Media Narrative About Somalia, Gets Blown Up by Terrorists

buwaya said...

Howard,

No they are not the backbone of engineering.
There is plenty of math in engineering education, but mathematics doesnt make an engineer.

They are tools, but engineering pre-existed mathematics as we understand it, and certainly "science".
Engineering is empirical not philosophical.

Howard said...

Blogger buwaya said... Thats been a Trump strategy for a long time, to make his opponents wear out their weapons through overuse, or misuse.

True

rhhardin said...

We are following reaction to president trump's weekend tweets directed at members of congress correspondent joe johns is at the white house "president trump doubling down on atacks he made sunday against democratic congresswomen. in the series of racist tweets the president writing 'progressive democratic congresswomen should go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came.' though he did not mention the democrats by name the apparent targets of his tirade are congresswoman AOC, rachia talib, diana presley who are all natural born citizens and elan omar who was born in somalia and becaume a us citizen in 2000. amid virtual silence from republicans on the hill democratic lawmakers slamming the president's rhetoric. 'the president is an illegitimate racist occupying the white house. yes he attacked these four women of color who are members of congress who have been elected from their districts to come to the congress of the united states and represent the people of their district. they are certainly legitimate; he is not.' The four freshman congresswomen have repeatedly spoken out against president trump's immigration policies and have all called for his impreachment. AOC firing back at the president reminding him she's an american adding given how you distroyed our border with inhumane camps all out of benefit to you and the corporations you profit off of them you're absolutely right about the corruption laid at your feet. AOC accusing the president of stoking white nationalism and calling him the most corrupt and inept president we have ever seen. Trump responding to the avalanche of criticism tweeting whenever confronted democrats call their adversaries including nancy pelosi racists. their disgusting language and the terrible things they say about the united states should not be allowed to go unchallenged. despite the reports of infighting between nancy pelosi and the same group of congresswomen the house speaker defending the members of her caucus rejecting what she called the president's xenophobic comments, saying make american great again has always been about making america white again, echoing comments she made last week. 'we respeoct the values of every member of our caucus diversity is their strength unity is our power.'

- KGO 830 news break 8:30 EDST

typed in real time with mp3 player 1/3 speed

Unknown said...

> Somewhat like liberal Californians who move to Texas for the cheap housing and plentiful jobs only to vote into office other liberals who whose policies would make those impossible.

Amen!

Houston, Dallas, and Austin will follow NY, Chicago, and Detroit

The rural is all that keeps TX red

Howard said...

Blogger buwaya said... Howard, No they are not the backbone of engineering.
There is plenty of math in engineering education, but mathematics doesnt make an engineer.

Math got us to the moon and it's making computation and communication faster and faster. You need to get out of your tinker-toy world once in a while.

William said...

The people in Central America are oppressed by gangs, cartels, brutish cops, and corrupt governments. They are entitled to move here to escape such oppression. These problems have nothing to do with who they are as a people. It is racist to claim that. People can only be bad if they are capitalists of European descent. All other people are victims except white Trump voters who are stupid.

whitney said...

"What, exactly, is supposed to be racist here?"

Silly. Don't you know that if a white person talks about any POC in anything but glowing, reverential terms it's racist

Shouting Thomas said...

Howard does math and can hear dog whistles!

This Whiteman can do everything!

Freder Frederson said...

What's embarrassing is the author's attempt to force-fit Trump's comments into a pre-existing format. He says, "I assume Trump is talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her “Squad,” ... Trump’s rant is not just wrong, but embarrassing.

He said "'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen" without particularizing who he was referring to. But it must be more than one since 'Congresswomen' is plural. There is only one person (i.e., naturalized citizen) who could possibly fit that description.

Yet somehow his larger point is valid. How does that work?

narciso said...

One might say its applied mathematics,

Fernandistein said...

Ilhan Omar

She faked a marriage to her brother so he could sneak into the US. Now she's in congress.

Hirsi Ali

SPLC branded her as an anti-muslim "extremist" because she's an ex-muslim atheist.

narciso said...

They also doubted her fgm experience,

Jeff Brokaw said...

Trump is clearly talking about anti-American ideologies but in the form of the people who are pushing for them.

Their technical birthplace is a detail that matters (in this case) only to sophists who love to get lost in details that do not really matter. A person’s birthplace should imply a lot about their level of assimilation, and did in the past, but today it means very little.

Do we really need to debate this distinction in the comments here?

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

There don't seem to be assimilation problems with people from high-IQ countries. Just a data point.

Almost as if people notice that they're not doing as well as other groups and are very open to being told it's because of discrimination againt them by those nasty other groups.

A political opportunity is noticed by the left, at this point.

Always check the map
https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

or just google "iq of x" for any country x.

Surprising how often it works.

buwaya said...

The "punctuated" part of technical progress generally isn't, quite, as some more investigation usually reveals that it is in fact built on things that were already "in the air" at the time, and also that there were various others also working, simultaneously on similar lines, all of them standing on common precursors.

The "lone genius" is almost always just the first guy to succeed, or the first to get credit, among a bunch of others, whom circumstances might have just as easily rewarded. And just as interesting are cases where the same solution was found, implemented in some limited way, and then largely forgotten.

You usually have to deep dive into a field to figure this out.

rhhardin said...

That political move could be thwarted by teaching good character, identify as an american.

Freder Frederson said...

Their technical birthplace is a detail that matters (in this case) only to sophists who love to get lost in details that do not really matter.

What kind of bullshit is this? He told them to go back to their country of origin and fix the problems there. So for all except Omar, he wants them to "go back" to the United States. Because someone has opinions are different than yours (or the president's) does not make them anti-american. And besides can you show me Anti-America on the map?

Roy Jacobsen said...

I have an acquaintance who's a British ex-pat living here in the upper Great Plains of the U.S. He'll frequently post something on Facebonk about how horrible the American medical system is and how wonderful it would be if we implemented a system like the NHS.

And I always want to ask him "If American healthcare is so shitty, and Great Britain's is so awesome, why are you here?"

Hagar said...

I would like to see some explanation of how Ilhan Omar, a Somali tribes woman, got elected to represent Minneapolis, Minnesota - thoroughly Scandihoovian Lutheran territory - in Congress.
Must be some weird district boundaries?

n.n said...

Emigration reform to mitigate the progress of immigration reform at both ends of the bridge and throughout. Immigration at a rate not exceeding assimilation and integration before planned parenthood. Wage less social justice and more wars if you are committed to sustainable change. The rise of anti-nativism has reflected acute diversity and lack of empathy.

Howard said...

Blogger Shouting Thomas said...

Howard does math and can hear dog whistles!

This Whiteman can do everything!


Cheers, Thomas. You are so right, I love my white privilege. It keeps me from being a snowflake victim of lefty atheist minority oppression.

You should reclaim your man-card and try it. Very liberating

buwaya said...

Rocket engines and centrifugal pumps got you to the moon.
Also high precision machining.

The mathematics was relatively simple, and also exceedingly empirical, full of fudge factors derived from experience.

Michael K said...

reality is more of a punctuated equilibrium mechanism that produces jumps and hyperbolic inflection points that gets us to the next gentle slope of uniformitarian progress.

Aha ! Now I understand where Howard is coming from. Right out of "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould, who believes in "The Blank Slate." The blank slate was beloved by the behaviorists and those who thought they could create "The New Soviet Man."

Howard, Read "The 10,000 Year Explosion,." It will correct most of your misunderstanding of evolution. Then you could read "The Lever of Riches," to learn something about technology and how it developed.

Clue: It was not in Silicon Valley.

Michael K said...

You are so right, I love my white privilege. It keeps me from being a snowflake victim of lefty atheist minority oppression.

Not when the Committee of Public Safety gets your name and address, Howard,

Bay Area Guy said...

AOC, Tlaib, Omar, & Pressley are simply garden variety Leftists. They have no allegiance to America and don't like its traditions, culture or constitutional structure. That they are women of color is secondary.

I can only hope that they start to "primary" moderate Dems around the country. That will further endear them to Pelosi. Not!

Michael K said...

Must be some weird district boundaries?

Democrats shipped 100,00 Somalis there.

Howard said...

I'm neck deep in engineering Buwaya. My latest project where we just got a patent granted was based on designs inspired by atmospheric science I picked up on while seriously studying climate science. I call it thunderstorm in a can.

Freder Frederson said...

I would like to see some explanation of how Ilhan Omar, a Somali tribes woman, got elected to represent Minneapolis, Minnesota - thoroughly Scandihoovian Lutheran territory - in Congress.
Must be some weird district boundaries?


Why do you ask questions that can be answered with a simple Google search

Howard said...

Blogger Michael K said... Not when the Committee of Public Safety gets your name and address, Howard,

LOL My point exactly. You people are paranoid snowflakes full of fear.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beasts of England said...

'Do we really need to debate this distinction in the comments here?'

The distinction is the beauty of his tweets. He's making the left defend their most radical, America-hating, nut cases. He's leaving the 'moderate' dems nowhere to hide: defend the nitwits or denounce them. They can't do the latter. Checkmate.

n.n said...

AOC, Tlaib, Omar, & Pressley are simply garden variety Leftists.

They yearn to be the leaders which they were not in their own nations. Leftists groom "minority" leaders to foster diversity, division, and democratic gerrymandering.

Shouting Thomas said...

@Howard

I normally refrain from this kind of behavior because I hate to crush the frail egos of less endowed men...

But, I can send dick pics if you like.

Fernandistein said...

Human progress is the result, exclusively, of advances in technology.
Not science, technology.


No, it's science, since modern technology is built on and based on science.

Absent modern scientific knowledge the technology would be about the same as it was 1,000 or 10,000 years ago, i.e. minimal progress: simple metalworking, but mostly wood and rope and piles of rocks.

William said...

I wonder what would happen if I moved to Pakistan, held up a copy of the Koran at political gatherings there, and lectured the Pakistanis on the proper way to be Muslim?

Robert Cook said...

"Houston, Dallas, and Austin will follow NY, Chicago, and Detroit"

I was in Houston for several days in mid-April this year. What a dead city! Towering skyscrapers, yet virtually no one out on the streets.

Howard said...

Blogger buwaya said...

Rocket engines and centrifugal pumps got you to the moon.
Also high precision machining.


My Old Man worked at the rocket factory in Canoga Park that built those things. He was a math major and was in the Scientific Computing department where they used math to design and build many of the components, including the development of complex CFD models. The precision machining of the turbine blades was his biggest accomplishment using his math skills to program a computer to measure and make them. This was a critical aspect of the reusable engines on the shuttle.

This is hot rodder culture

Freder Frederson said...

Democrats shipped 100,00 Somalis there.

As usual, Michael K is lying or just listening to the monkeys flying out of his butt.

From the article I so helpfully provided so the number of stupid comments might possibly be reduced: "The state [Minnesota] has 52,333 people who report Somali ancestry — the largest concentration of Somalis in America — according to the American Community Survey in 2017." "Primary refugee arrivals remained at several hundred a year throughout the 1990s and exploded in the 2000s, reaching a peak of 3,639 in 2006."

I don't recall there being a Democrat president until the late 2000's. Hmm, who was in power in 2006. Maybe it is Wikipedia bias but it says Ted Stevens was President Pro Tem of the Senate, Hastert Speaker of the House and George W. Bush President.

Howard said...

Blogger Shouting Thomas said... @Howard I normally refrain from this kind of behavior because I hate to crush the frail egos of less endowed men... But, I can send dick pics if you like.

Your posting style is a stream of dick pics... lol

wildswan said...

As highly placed members of the Majeerteen clan of Somalia, Ilhan Omar's family was deeply complicit in the Arab slave trade. Yet she pretends to speak for African-Americans and feels free to condemn as racist all white Americans including those whose ancestors never owned slaves and who fought in the Civil War to free them. She's in "The Squad" with Rashida Tlaib whose family came from a part of the Ottoman Empire. This Empire was the destination for many of the slaves seized by the Arab slave traders from Kenya, Tanzania, the Sudan and Ethiopia and thus its subjects were, at the least, complicit in Ottoman slavery which lasted until the Ottoman empire fell after World War I. And many in Palestine were slave owners even into the 1930's - owning slaves seized in the Sudan and Ethiopia and sold in the market in Cairo, Egypt. But Rashida Tlaib too feels free to lecture Americans. And Ayanna Pressley, whose ancestors suffered from the slave trade and slavery, stands shoulder to shoulder with these two. Self-righteousness blends so nicely with hypocrisy.

Arab Slave Trade
In the years from 1500 to 1900 17 million people from Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania were enslaved in the Middle East (for instance, Palestine province) and around the Red Sea coasts and 5 million more were sent as slaves to places such as India and China. The Majeerteen Sultanate located on the coast of present-day Somalia was an active participant in this trade as well as a purchaser of slaves for work in Majeerteen plantations. "From 1800 to 1890, between 250,000–500,000 Bantu slaves are thought to have been sold from the slave market of Zanzibar alone to the Somali coast." Slavery and the slave trade continued in Somalia including in the area of the Majeerteen Empire until 1923 when the Italian colonial administration abolished it.

Shouting Thomas said...

Houston is hot, Cookie. Nobody lives outside. Air conditioning is life.

I was there two years ago and had a great time.

My travel mate was a gay man knew the city and who took me out to see what was going on in the clubs.

I caught a black cowboy Cajun Zydeco band in an almost entirely black club full of guys and gals in full Western swing attire. The band was so hot I thought of trying to book them in Woodstock.

The comfort food was terrific. Everybody was friendly and cheerful.

While I was there I checked out the employment scene. Employers were offering NYC level salaries for programmers in a city where the cost of living is 60% of NYC salaries.

Leland said...

Amazing how many people come here seeking asylum while claiming how horrible we are. It never has sounded like an honest argument for asylum.

buwaya said...

Modern society was built without "science".

Railroads and steam engines and indeed the Wright brothers gas engine weren't "scientific". All of these were conceived, assembled, perfected through testing, not by scientific proof. And with next to no mathematics, or with math that wouldn't have stumped Pythagoras.

Its what every blacksmith and carpenter did, given a problem to solve.

Today we have more complex technologies but these are being improved by the equivalent of blacksmiths and carpenters, including Howards dad. The process is just as empirical, no matter how complex the tools are.

Michael K said...

I don't recall there being a Democrat president until the late 2000's.

Freder, wake up ! The the Democrats were in office in the 90s and even the 60s ! Wake up !

Robert Cook said...

"Houston is hot, Cookie. Nobody lives outside. Air conditioning is life."

Actually, it was quite cool and breezy when we were there...in the upper 60s or very low 70s. A waiter at a restaurant where we were having lunch said we were lucky to be going back to New York the next day, as, he said, "next week it'll be getting really hot."

That said, I know someone from New York who moved to Minnesota a few years ago. She says the same thing is true there...no one on the streets, a virtual no man's land.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“they are the cult. Trump is the deprogrammer.”

That’s pretty trenchant. Culture as cult. Trump wondering aloud why the emperor is parading in his undies.

Michael K said...

You people are paranoid snowflakes full of fear.

Howard, were you in Tacoma last week ? Just wondering

ga6 said...

Just checked TV listings for today. Must see TV "Dear White People", described as "Set among a diverse group of students of color as they navigate a predominantly white Ivy League college where racial tensions are often swept under the rug, Dear White People is a send up of "post-racial" America that also weaves a universal story about forging one's own unique path."

Just the antidote to DJT one tweet, except this is on weekly so we can get our portion of white guilt (but safely at a distance) each week, and can even DVR it for replay when we feel a twinge of "racist" thought coming on.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder, wake up ! The the Democrats were in office in the 90s and even the 60s ! Wake up !

So you get caught in a lie and try to deflect by deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote.

Cute.

PJ said...

the borg of "normals"

The people with the hive mind are the ones who proudly display all their most important beliefs on the same preprinted yard sign — we were just talking about them yesterday. You are not one of those people, but you seem to imagine that if large numbers of your countrymen disagree with you it can only be because they are incapable of thinking rationally and independently. Yes, there are two bubbles, but the great majority of normal Americans aren’t in either of them.

Also, responding to someone’s speech by declaring the speaker to be an idiot, an ignoramus, an ingrate, or a hypocrite is not an attempt to impose a prior restraint on speech — that is, to silence the speaker. Congresswoman Omar has a large platform of her own and a sympathetic national press, and she is more than capable of responding to President Trump’s speech with more speech.

Fernandistein said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernandistein said...

Modern society was built on "science".

That's why we don't have steam powered computers communicating with other steam powered computers thru steam powered satellites launched with a burst of steam.

Howard said...

You forgot the importance of the science behind steam punk

Freder Frederson said...

Railroads and steam engines and indeed the Wright brothers gas engine weren't "scientific". All of these were conceived, assembled, perfected through testing, not by scientific proof. And with next to no mathematics, or with math that wouldn't have stumped Pythagoras.

How buwaya's mind work is beyond me. He claims to be an engineer yet bemoans that the universities no longer teach what they did 200 years ago and no one knows Greek, Latin, or the classic philosophers.

Now he claims that the great inventions of the 19th century were discovered by trial and error and required only math that "wouldn't have stumped Pythagoras". While this may be true to a point, it was because they overengineered everything. Without calculus (which would have stumped Pythagoras) there is an absolute limit to the size of a building, bridge or dam you can build. Without nuclear science and physics and an understanding of radiation, you sure as hell are not going to get a nuclear power plant or bomb.

narciso said...

You might ask the folks that built the bridge over the span at fiu, they were concerned about sustainability.

Unknown said...

> I was in Houston for several days in mid-April this year. What a dead city! Towering skyscrapers, yet virtually no one out on the streets.

I lived in Houston 30 years.

Midtown is full of young people, hot clubs, and activities. Rice Military, same thing.

Seems you are as clueless in the city as you are on the discussion boards.

buwaya said...

It is a case of having ones cake and eating it too.

It sounds absurd, that of demanding that the US let in poor desperate foreigners, where they will be oppressed into hopelessness, or at least eternal exhausting struggle, by evil Americans. This message is both standard and ridiculous, on the face of it.

But its not usually the same people doing the having and the eating.

Now, it should be clarified that the immigrants themselves, legal or illegal, are under no illusions as to why they come here. They know damned well that they are fleeing a shithole and that being in the US makes improving their personal circumstances vastly easier.

It is the politico-cultural requirements of other people, notably the American upper class, in their conflict with the American middle class, to relentlessly pound on the evil of America as a cultural entity, and identity, because it is of course the tribal identity of their enemies.

There is more than one "side" to all this. 3/4ths of the messaging has nothing directly to do with immigrants or foreigners, but is simply part of the American caste war, which is being fought between factions of white people.

Browndog said...

As a result of her dust-up with the young, vibrant commies, Pelosi was being portrayed as a 'moderate'. Almost all of her caucus rushed to her defense, putting themselves in the 'moderate' camp.

Pelosi is as radical as they come. She explicitly states she has the same goals as AOC, but achieving those goals must be done within the structure of the bureaucracy.

AOC has no time for such formalities. She says so, with exasperation. If the kulaks don't on board immediately if not sooner, your Holodomor awaits.

Original Mike said...

Oh, oh. Freder is straying into science.

Unknown said...

> I lived in Houston 30 years.

that said, TX cities vote Blue.

Houston was FULL of Beto Whattaburger rip-off signs.

Man did that guy get exposed once he was no longer facing The Devil Ted Cruz ?

Leland said...

It was pretty rainy in April in Houston. Texans have the sense to be indoors than stand out in the rain. But then there is cookie. Alas, I hope cookie can't stand Houston and stays away. He needs to fix where he lives before telling us happy Houstonians how to live.

I also wonder if cookie got out of Downtown, as there are not a lot of towering skyscrapers around. Downtown has an extensive tunnel system that people use to avoid the heat and rain. Again, it is just a sensible thing to do.

Unknown said...

we are the Camp of the Saints

I can't stop thinking about the movie "US"

When I see the North Africans storm the Pantheon and claim citizenship

Or white libs raise the Mexican flag over ICE in Aurora

DarkHelmet said...

Omar is an ungrateful immigrant. It's totally legit to say to her, "If America is so bad, why are you here? And if you are so good at fixing things, why don't you fix your homeland?"

Politicians aren't allowed to say such things, of course, but Trump didn't get the memo. Or rather, he got the memo, laughed and tossed it in the trash.

Deprogrammer indeed.

Howard said...

buwaya puti slaggs off on the US and rightly claims not to be one of us and I don't hear you people screaming for him to go back to where he comed from. It all about the idiotlogical narrative

Paul said...

Exclusive poll: AOC defining Dems in swing states....

"The poll — taken in May, before Speaker Pelosi’s latest run-in with AOC and the three other liberal House freshmen known as “The Squad” — included 1,003 likely general-election voters who are white and have two years or less of college education.

These are the “white, non-college voters” who embraced Donald Trump in 2016 but are needed by Democrats in swing House districts.

The group that took the poll shared the results with Axios on the condition that it not be named, because the group has to work with all parts of the party.

The findings:

Ocasio-Cortez was recognized by 74% of voters in the poll; 22% had a favorable view.
Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota — another member of The Squad — was recognized by 53% of the voters; 9% (not a typo) had a favorable view.

Socialism was viewed favorably by 18% of the voters and unfavorably by 69%.

Capitalism was 56% favorable; 32% unfavorable.
“Socialism is toxic to these voters,” said the top Democrat."

Trump is wining cause he tells it like it is.

Tommy Duncan said...

My local progressive newspaper published an article yesterday that did not provide the actual tweets. Instead, what Trump said was inaccurately reported and misrepresented. The article then provided extensive quotes from Trump's opponents which also misrepresented what Trump said. The progressive/media narrative was quickly established.

buwaya said...

Freder has a hard time making distinctions.

To be clear, I am an "academic" engineer, not a hands on tinkerer on wrought iron. I used to teach Thermodynamics and linear programming.

Mathematics is a tool, to engineers. It is not an end in itself. You use it to the degree it is useful, and you adapt it into utility in ways that would make mathematicians cry.

And I know my history of technology. The industrial revolution that brought most of the benefits of technology, from extraction to manufacture to consumer products, simply didn't rely on scientists, as in academically trained gentlemen deriving laws of nature.

n.n said...

Science, as a philosophy has made great progress, one step forward, two steps back, through conflation of logical domains. Engineering has enjoyed positive developments through conversion and application of decades, centuries, and millennia old science and math.

Roughcoat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Howard said...

Shorter Doc Mike: The Sky is Falling, the Sky is Faling

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Feeder Frederson@7:52AM We understand radiation now because Madame Curie experimented with something she knew nothing about. Trial and error, not computer modeling.

buwaya said...

I admire the former US, and much more so the former Americans.
I regret the fact that it is going away.
And that the Americans are disappearing.

Fernandistein said...

indeed the Wright brothers gas engine [wasn't] "scientific".

Well, yes it was "scientific" since it was made mostly of aluminum, and so it depended on recent, at the time, scientific discoveries, namely ... aluminum, and how to get it:

"Scientists suspected than an unknown metal existed in alum as early as 1787, but they did not have a way to extract it until 1825. Hans Christian Oersted, a Danish chemist, was the first to produce tiny amounts of aluminum. Two years later, Friedrich Wöhler, a German chemist, developed a different way to obtain aluminum. By 1845, he was able to produce samples large enough to determine some of aluminum's basic properties. Wöhler's method was improved in 1854 by Henri Étienne Sainte-Claire Deville, a French chemist. Deville's process allowed for the commercial production of aluminum. As a result, the price of aluminum dropped from around $1200 per kilogram in 1852 to around $40 per kilogram in 1859. Unfortunately, aluminum remained too expensive to be widely used.

Two important developments in the 1880s greatly increased the availability of aluminum. The first was the invention of a new process for obtaining aluminum from aluminum oxide. Charles Martin Hall, an American chemist, and Paul L. T. Héroult, a French chemist, each invented this process independently in 1886."

The Hall-Héroult process uses (a lot of) electricity, the generation of which depends on "science", either chemistry (batteries) or knowledge of electromagnetic fields (generators), unless you stick to static electricity and sparks.

Roughcoat said...

Actually, immigrants DO have special obligations, and duties, vis-à-vis coming to America and living here. Same goes, not incidentally, for non-citizens who live here more or less permanently. The obligations and duties are not onerous, but fulfilling them is or should be, a requirement. Or at the very least a matter of personal honor. It's a like joining an elite unit. You have to pass muster. You have to walk the walk; you have to be worthy. A lot of people seem to find this difficult. It isn't, unless cultivating good character is difficult.

Howard said...

Being academic explains your ignorance buwaya puti. Why the fuck do you think wall street gobbles up the math and physics majors from MIT? Trial and error?

Howard said...

immigrant citizens have no more obligation than anyone lucky enough to be born in this lap of luxury

rcocean said...

I'm in favor of "love it leave it". What kind of country lets in millions of immigrants and then acts like THEY own the country - not the native born who have generously let them in. "Xenophobia" is just a dumb word made up to make patriots feel bad.

Imagine me emigrating to Australia or Japan, and then demanding everyone change everything to make the immigrants comfortable. And calling them "Xenophobes" or "Racists" if they pushed back on my obnoxious behavior! Crazy.

rcocean said...

This is a brilliant move by Trump since it forces Nancy to stand with AOC. Which she does in reality. There is no real resistance in the D party to their Left-wing crazies. Warren, Harris, and Bernie are leading in the polls and favor socialized medicine and open borders. Free abortion and Free everything for everyone.

Meanwhile, the RINO's like Mitt Romney want to "reach across the aisle" to "get things done" - which means giving these crazy D's 50% of what they want NOW, and 50% later.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“He's saying don't criticize the United States if you immigrated from a worse country. Go back to that place, fix it, and "The come back and show us... how it is done."

This is exactly what I’ve been saying to Buwaya Puti for years. If one doesn’t care enough to want to become a citizen of the country they’ve lived in for 30 years, one shouldn’t be constantly criticizing it.

rcocean said...

We have no OBLIGATION to let anyone in. We GENEROUSLY let in immigrants. Its their duty to assimilate and become Americans. Its not our duty to walk on eggshells and change society to please them. Don't like America? No one asked you to come here.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Howard@9:04AM Buwaya Puti does not slag America when he discussed problems. Guys like you and Cook and Henry sympathize with the Anti-American attitudes of Omar, and you defend and support it. Buwaya comes across as a very pro-America immigrant who loves America and is grateful for living here. Exactly opposite of how AOC, Omar, Tlaib, Pressley, Howard, Cook, and Henry present themselves.

Howard said...

rcocean: because America is greater than Japan and Australia. Why do you want to lower our standards. You, like buwaya puti, think the US is so weak and feeble it cannot survive evolution. I say bring them on and they and us will assimilate and be the better for it. Stop being such a pessimistic chicken hearted snowflake: Nothing is more Un-American than that.

TestTube said...

Robert Cook,

If you feel that way about Houston, you weren't trying.

Perhaps you were judging it by New York standards? I know of your love for New York, but expecting Houston to conform to the New York template is foolish.

A world city meets you on its own terms.

buwaya said...

It is a bit like an admiration for the grandeur of the buffalo herds on the great plains. And a regret that these are being exterminated.

You are like the buffalo.

Oso Negro said...

YES! The Great Ernest Tubb had the cultural war sussed out in 1965.

Howard said...

Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...

“He's saying don't criticize the United States if you immigrated from a worse country. Go back to that place, fix it, and "The come back and show us... how it is done."

This is exactly what I’ve been saying to Buwaya Puti for years. If one doesn’t care enough to want to become a citizen of the country they’ve lived in for 30 years, one shouldn’t be constantly criticizing it.


Thanks Inga. I disagree, buwaya puti is welcome here and we can take anything he dishes out. I am sure he has made our country better and stronger by being here.

rcocean said...

"Two important developments in the 1880s greatly increased the availability of aluminum."

It always amazes me how the people who actually invent all the stuff that made us rich, rarely made much money off it. Instead, its the sharp-eyed business men who came later and make all the money. Did the inventors of TV or the Radio make any real $$? Who makes massive $$ off the internet? Zuckerberg and the top people at Google - who did zero to invent it.

Roughcoat said...

Trump is probing by fire, a time-honored military tactic in the modern age. Best undertaken with a Ma Deuce. Trump's tweets & etc. are Ma Deuce equivalents, loaded with AP and tracers, judiciously placed, lighting the way.

Howard said...

Roughcoat is right, Trump does know how to drop a deuce into the media punchbowel

rcocean said...

The USA is NOT greater than Australia or Japan. I don't know about Australia, but 40 years from now Japan will still be Japan. What the USA will be 40 years from now is anyone's guess. Probably Brazil Nortre.

Sebastian said...

Powerline has documented Omar's bigamy and immigration and tax fraud, as well as her PC ingratitude and race-baiting, so I'm surprised Hinderaker takes issue with Trump.

Anyway, it's a real question, isn't it?--if people truly are disgusted with racist Amerikkka, why don't they go back, or just move? Or could it be that the totalitarian temptation to seize power and lord it over the rest of us is greater than the fervor of their supposed anti-racism?

rcocean said...

The Democrats ALWAYS have flags whenever they speak or have a debate but its just a prop. They have ZERO love of country. In fact, they think that's racist. God Help us when they get in power and control the POTUS and both houses of Congress.

Shouting Thomas said...

Howard is just as florid and wild in his rhetoric as Ritmo, so much so that I thought he was the latest persona of our favorite McD's grease pit cleaner.

However small it might be, Howard does have a sense of humor, so I've concluded that he must have a higher calling... maybe the towel boy in a cheap swinger's club.

Always wear the plastic gloves, Howie! You don't want that stuff to get on your skin.

rcocean said...

The Guys at Powerline were Never-trumpers in 2016. They've toned it down, but they're Bushies at heart.

Michael K said...

I say bring them on and they and us will assimilate and be the better for it. <

As long as they do not collect welfare, I'm OK with it. However, that is not what is happening. The Muslim men trying to stow away on trains running in the Chunnel were asked why they wanted to get into Britain. "The salary is better." The illegals traveling a thousand miles to get here are not coming for a chance at a good job. They are coming for the free stuff. You people know that and are hoping they vote for Democrats. That is all it is. Just like what Labour did to England,

Howard said...

Nitrile or nothing

Michael K said...

Why the fuck do you think wall street gobbles up the math and physics majors from MIT? Trial and error?

Howard, have you ever read " The Formula that Killed Wall Street ?"

A YEAR AGO, it was hardly unthinkable that a math wizard like David X. Li might someday earn a Nobel Prize. After all, financial economists—even Wall Street quants—have received the Nobel in economics before, and Li's work on measuring risk has had more impact, more quickly, than previous Nobel Prize-winning contributions to the field. Today, though, as dazed bankers, politicians, regulators, and investors survey the wreckage of the biggest financial meltdown since the Great Depression, Li is probably thankful he still has a job in finance at all.

Yeah, those quants will save us.

Kevin said...

The people in Central America are oppressed by gangs, cartels, brutish cops, and corrupt governments. They are entitled to move here to escape such oppression.

Why do you stop at Central America?

It’s not even the place with the least safety or largest injustices.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Buwaya comes across as a very pro-America immigrant who loves America and is grateful for living here.”

Oh hahahahaaaaha! Seriously, you must have a real talent for self deception. I’ve read even those on the right here calling out Buwaya on his anti Americanism.

Darkisland said...

Blogger buwaya said...

The industrial revolution that brought most of the benefits of technology, from extraction to manufacture to consumer products, simply didn't rely on scientists, as in academically trained gentlemen deriving laws of nature.

The industrial revolution came about for one reason: The discovery of how to convert fire into mechanical energy.

Savery and Newcomen (his "engine for raising water by fire") did some early work but it was never really practical until a scientist (called a natural philosopher ) spent about 10 years digging into steam, in the process discovering the concept of "latent heat" and why it was important to steam engines.

Until Watt, or somebody else, did that, all the engineering in the world could never have developed a generally practical steam engine.

Then engineers and machinists and mechanics, and bricklayers and others had to take Watt's laboratory ideas and make them into machines. But only after Watt had done the science.

And even then, it would have languished as an interesting toy without Matthew Boulton, who was not a scientist or engineer but owned a button factory in Manchester, figured out how to actually make the engines, sell them, train operators and such as was needed to make them useful.

Watt was important to the process but Boulton was every bit as important. Watt gets a unit of measure named after him. Nobody know who Boulton was. I think we need to find a unit to name after him.

Absent some means of portable, controllable, reliable, power, the industrial revolution never would have happened.

And that took first science, then engineering, then entrepreneurship. And capitalism to finance the whole process.

For someone who only had about 6 months total schooling, Andrew Carnegie, he of steel and libraries, was one hell of a writer. His bio of Watt is one of the best.

John Henry

Shouting Thomas said...

Seriously, you must have a real talent for self deception.

Says the goof who was completely gulled by the Russia collusion hoax.

We're gonna keep on remembering that. You can't escape it.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“They have ZERO love of country.”

Sure, sure, such sweeping generalizations are so intelligent. We know that not even one Democrat serves in the military.

Bruce Hayden said...

“To be clear, I am an "academic" engineer, not a hands on tinkerer on wrought iron. I used to teach Thermodynamics and linear programming.”

My question is how those fit together in your work? In my experience, Thermo is ME, while Linear Programming is Operations Research (biased of course - my MBA major was OR, and I loved LP).

“Mathematics is a tool, to engineers. It is not an end in itself. You use it to the degree it is useful, and you adapt it into utility in ways that would make mathematicians cry.”

No expert here, but as I understand it, this is esp the case in Thermodynamics and Fluids.

Shouting Thomas said...

The audacity of Inga is breath taking.

We're only months removed from her shitting her panties over Russia collusion and she's returned to her pose as the omniscient oracle.

You'd think she'd go away or at least change her avatar and name.

The internet has no shame.

Hagar said...

Debra Haaland got elected to Congress from New Mexico with a whole lot of TV ads depicting her as a struggling "Native American" from Laguna Pueblo, recovering alcoholic, single mother, etc. However, her father was of Norwegian descent (I think at least one ad also mentioned her Norwegian immigrant "values"), she was born in Arizona - a long ways from Laguna, and she has been a faithful Democrat Party worker all her adult life, indeed even a former Chair of the Democratic Party of New Mexico. So, really quite successful in off-Reservation Democrat political life, and the TV campaign looks like all humbug to me.

So, how did Ilhan Omar get elected? By a similar misrepresentation of her real background?

(But different; aside from the sad victim story, I do not remember Haaland complaining about the United States as such at all.)

wwww said...

Commenter wrote: "Exactly opposite of how AOC, Omar, Tlaib, Pressley, Howard, Cook, and Henry present themselves."

When I first read the tweet, I was shocked he included Pressley, an African American. African Americans have a long history in the United States. Many have lived in North America since the Revolutionary War. But then, I considered his comments about Judge Curiel. I considered Martin Luther King and Frederick Douglass; They encountered the same type of accusation. Douglass and King were accused of not being "real" Americans.

Roger B. Taney and Dred Scott. This argument goes back to Taney. Can free African Americans be "real" Americans with all of the rights due to Americans? Taney did not believe white men needed to respect any of the rights of free African Americans. Taney did not see African Americans as "real Americans."

Trump asked if Judge Curiel could be a "real" American due to his ancestors. Trump asserts the same sentiment about Pressley. This is the same argument as Roger B. Taney vs. Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King. Taney did not see African Americans as "real Americans." He did not think Frederick Douglass was deserving of any rights.

Trump suggests Curiel and Pressley cannot count as "real" Americans due to the origin of their ancestors. I don't see that as a "American" concept; I see that as the opposite of the American character.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Howard said...

The precision machining of the turbine blades was his biggest accomplishment using his math skills to program a computer to measure and make them. This was a critical aspect of the reusable engines on the shuttle.

Amen, Howard. Go talk to a CNC machinist programmer. They understand calculus at a level that few others do. They have a spinning bit, working against a tapered or curved surface that is also spinning, the dimensions of both are constantly changing (tool via wear, part via removal) and they have to figure out how to keep the relative speeds of bit and part surface constant. (And this is a simplified explanation)

And wind up with part dimensions that are accurate to within half a micron. (As well as precise/consistent)

You can't do that without some serious math. The math can be automated via software. But the understanding and application of the math still requires a human brain.

This is hot rodder culture

And again I say Amen. Americans, especially Americans born before about 1960, grew up tinkering with things. Taking clocks, lawnmowers whatever apart and putting them back together. Sometimes fixing them, sometimes not but always learning. Lots of them thought "Let's see what would happen if I set the cam forward by 2 degrees" and by trial and error they learned a lot about cams and engines and so on.

It's one of the things that makes America so great.

John Henry

Bruce Hayden said...

I love it. Trump says something that much of the country has in the back of their minds, and moves the Overton Window a bit. The Dems get all butt hurt because he, again, showed that they are lying POS’s. He, again, refused to cow down to elite opinion. Instead, as he so frequently does, spoke truth to power. And maybe that is why he is so hated, because the left believes that only they can do that, speak truth to power. But, of course, they are the power that he challenges.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

13% of 116 Congress are immigrants or children of immigrants

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