July 15, 2019

"If 'Maple' is a kind of real-life 'Rosebud,' for Jeffrey Epstein, then maybe his money is not the root of all his evil."

"Maybe Epstein’s particular evil is not just rooted in his wealth and the arrogance it engendered, but in whatever happened in those years while he was raised on Maple Avenue by a mother and father who seemed to their neighbors to harbor only humility and decency."

Maybe maybe maybe!

Articles must be written. The one I'm reading is The Daily Beast, "Epstein’s Coney Island Days: From Math Nerd to ‘Arrogant’ Prick" by Michael Daly, who found a pathway to Trump:
[B]y the 1960s, Sea Gate was largely home to working-class people such as the Epsteins. The fence had become a protective barrier against urban blight and its accompanying dangers. Coney Island had been transformed from a summertime paradise to a crime-plagued ghetto with the help of real estate developer Fred Trump, who actively arranged for welfare recipients to move into what had been holiday bungalows. That caused residents of the year-round homes to flee, some of them to apartments at the new Trump Village that the developer had been having difficulty filling.

Street criminals still managed to cut through the chain link occasionally, but Sea Gate had its own private police force to patrol the streets and man the two gates, admitting only residents and guests. Sea Gate thereby remained an exclusive community in the sense that outsiders—particularly of the black and Hispanic variety—were excluded.

That caused Jeffrey Epstein and the other “Sea Gate kids” to be viewed as snobs by some of their classmates beyond the fence.
So Epstein's family was middle class, but — because of Fred Trump — poor people got housing nearby and that led to a social dynamic that cast Epstein, the middle class kid, as, essentially a rich kid.

52 comments:

gspencer said...

Money as such is not the root of evil. Rather, it's the love of money, according to 1 Timothy, which is the source.

gilbar said...

The Important Thing to remember is; IT'S ALL THE TRUMPS FAULT!
if they hadn't found housing for all those poor folk, lots of 14 year old massage therapists wouldn't have jobs

rhhardin said...

The Derbyshire swimming pool story
https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2015-06-13.html#07

Linguistically, this whole zone is a mess. It's a mess because we're afraid to speak honestly about what's going on. When people are afraid to speak honestly, it's because there are true facts in the world that they'd prefer not to face.

True facts like these: For white yuppies from gentrified neighborhoods, a free public swimming pool is a place to swim a little, sunbathe a little, have fun with the kids a little if you're married, flirt a little if you're not, and catch up on some reading. For young blacks and Hispanics from the projects, it's a place to show off, status-challenge other young toughs, get in fights, and defy authority.

The two things don't mix. Whoever thought they would — whoever spent $50 million to bring this pool back to commission, with open admission for all who show up — is an idiot, an idiot whose brain has been addled by the kind of dishonest, reality-defying linguistic malpractice on display in the New York newspapers this week.

rehajm said...

'Maple' is not so much a 'Rosebud' as one half of Epstein's stripper name.

h said...

Are you telling me that Fred Trump "actively" found housing for low income individuals? The cur!!! If this isn't grounds for impeachment of DJT, then I don't know what would be! (More exclamation points available on request.)

rehajm said...

In the clickbait box: Bill Clinton: I Flew With Jeffrey Epstein but Knew ‘Nothing’ About ‘Terrible Crimes’

Depends on the meaning of Nothing and Terrible Crimes, of course.

Kevin said...

Maybe maybe maybe!

If you think your mother might love you, that’s good for a couple of NYT pieces.

Owen said...

Gilbar: early threadwinner.

wendybar said...

When everything in the world comes back as Trumps fault, you know the TDS is very real.

JAORE said...

because of Fred Trump — poor people got housing nearby and that led to a social dynamic that cast Epstein, the middle class kid, as, essentially a rich kid.

Wow, to turn THAT into a Trump bad is Inga level delusion.

But the lesson is clear. Don't provide housing to poor people. It's for the children, right?

Michael K said...

Who knew that Fred Trump was really Barack Obama back in the early days of housing integration?

Amadeus 48 said...

And then Epstein became a rich kid.

Oh, the humanity!

Howard said...

Blogger rhhardin said...For young blacks and Hispanics from the projects, it's a place to show off, status-challenge other young toughs, get in fights, and defy authority.

Nice anecdote. I got plenty more as I worked as a lifeguard in project area pools in LA in the late 1970's when things were more violent than today and never saw any of what you describe, although I'm sure it happens.

Another anecdote from this 4th of July. The wife and I wanted to check out a local private lake park with water slides, diving boards, diving towers, basketball court, barbeque pits, etc. The place was packed with Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics playing vulgar afro-latin rap with the women twerking while wearing the most revealing bathing suits I've ever seen. Many were drinking tequila and vaping spleef.

We were the only whites and everyone we saw smiled and/or said hi while we enjoyed cooling off in the lake. Not a hint of anything other than people having a good time.

Next time, try stop being a snowflake pussy.

M Jordan said...

Wealth has always been relative. That’s why “A rising tides lifts all ships” doesn’t satisfy the grievance crowd of small boats. Someone could produce a society where no one had to work or worry about money ever ... but hey, my neighbor has a better view of utopia. Not fair.

William said...

What makes Jeffrey tick? I don't think housing has much to do with the dynamic.....How can a man so basically flawed be so accomplished in both the financial and social worlds? He's quite the paradox.

Angle-Dyne, Servant of Ugliness said...

Coney Island had been transformed from a summertime paradise to a crime-plagued ghetto with the help of real estate developer Fred Trump, who actively arranged for welfare recipients to move into what had been holiday bungalows. That caused residents of the year-round homes to flee, some of them to apartments at the new Trump Village that the developer had been having difficulty filling.

Sounds like Fred Trump was doing God's work of section-8ing avant la lettre.

And shame on the author for that racist dog-whistle "crime-plagued ghetto".

Wince said...

"This is what we fought all night to get back to?"

DarkHelmet said...

Prevent minorities from getting housing in certain areas? Racist!

Help minorities get housing in areas previously unavailable to them? Devious, greedy racist!

Do nothing whatsoever about minorities getting housing in any particular area? Vicious, xenophobic racist!

There is a pattern here.


Rick said...

So Trump found poor minority people affordable housing and some people fled. Rather than embrace the normal narrative and blame them for racism the writer reverses blame to ensure Trump is tainted.

Fernandinande said...

Coney Island had been transformed from a summertime paradise to a crime-plagued ghetto with the help of real estate developer Fred Trump, who actively arranged for welfare recipients to move into what had been holiday bungalows.

That's the government's job!

MayBee said...

Hahahaha! Just last week we were discussing the importance of mixed income housing. And now we discover it creates pedarists.

n.n said...

Character has a low correlation with money. Stand, don't kneel. Reconcile, make the right choice.

MayBee said...

Re Epstien: I propose the money doesn't corrupt, but rather the people who have a desire to be naked with 14 year olds realize that money is the key to doing so and getting away with it. So the drive to have the young naked girls is the thing that motivates the money making.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Howard said...

The place was packed with Caribbean Blacks and Hispanics playing vulgar afro-latin rap with the women twerking while wearing the most revealing bathing suits I've ever seen. Many were drinking tequila and vaping spleef.

We were the only whites and everyone we saw smiled and/or said hi while we enjoyed cooling off in the lake. Not a hint of anything other than people having a good time.


I've found Puerto Ricans (and I don't know who you mean by Hispanics. PR? Mexican? Cuban?), especially on the Island but also off, to be about the friendliest group of people I've ever known. So no surprise there.

You mention that they were Caribbean blacks. Do you mean English speaking from the British Caribbean? Dominican? (who are Hispanic)Haitian? Other?

Not sure how to tell but I'll take your word for it. British Caribbean blacks, even those who are 2-3 generations removed from the Caribbean do much better in the US by all measures (Income, education, crime, family stability etc) than blacks who trace their roots through American slavery. The history of slavery in the British Caribbean was much different from the history of slavery in the US though the slaves came from the same places. Physically much more cruel in the Caribbean but also much more freedom in the sense that they could wander off the plantation, had gardens to grow their own food, could be educated and more.

So no surprise there, either.

As for the music and twerking, I suspect that this is more an age than a culture thing. Go look at spring break, for example, in Florida or Cancun.

John Henry

FleetUSA said...

"Articles must be written" applies to a lot of the junk spewed out these days.

Darkisland said...

Paula [mother] worked as a school aide and was a homemaker. Seymour Epstein worked for the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation as a groundskeeper and gardener.

Wait, how can this be? You're telling me that Epstein's parents could afford to live in a gated community? Everybody knows that only the filthy stinking rich racists live in gated communities.

Were the teachers aide and gardner jobs deep cover for something more lucrative and nefarious?

John Henry

Leland said...

So Obama's late rule changes on section 8 housing will cause more Epsteins in the future?

Darkisland said...

I've also spent time working in Mexico at various companies in various cities. Generally on manufacturing plant floors. Also known a lot of Mexicans in plants across the US.

Very friendly people.

Ditto the Cubans I've known.

Exceptions with dickish assholes in all groups, of course.

John Henry

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Fred Trump's liberal values ruined that community!

Narr said...

MayBee@844, bingo. Money and power are sometimes mere means to ends more personal and . . . idiosyncratic than most normal people want to think about.

It is pretty amusing the lengths some will go to show Trumps ruining America.

Narr
And I need amusement

Howard said...

Cheers JH: I couldn't tell where these folks were from, they mostly seemed to be pretty fresh off the boat. The minority demographics here in Mass are quite different from California where I am recently from, so I don't have a good feel for the actual breakdown.

Narr said...

Local private lake park with families(?) on July 4th vs Derbs' open free public pool.

Narr
Comment?

rcocean said...

Epstein problem is he's a sexual pervert with a contempt for society and the law. I don't know how that relates to his upbringing. It seems in-born.

William said...

I lived and worked among blacks and immigrants for most of my life. I had many positive experiences and met many fine people. I've also had some extremely negative experiences. It's hard to sort out. I presume black and immigrant people face the same challenge when dealing with whites.

Mattman26 said...

Wow, I guess young Donald learned 3D-chess from the original grand master.

So Fred, who I've been assured was nothing shy of a full-throated Klansman, arranged for poor minorities to find housing in what had been holiday bungalows. Clever racist bastard. This led to blight, which of course any decent Klansman would have foreseen. This in turn led to gated white middle-class communities, which in turn gave rise to snotty, entitled white guys who sexually abuse kids on a systemic basis.

The evil brilliance is almost too much for me.

cacimbo said...

LIES.

It was NYC - NOT papa Trump who first purchased and/or used eminent domain to accumulate large tracts of land to build public housing projects in Coney Island. Coney Island Houses, home to over 1,000 families was completed in 1957. Seagate begins at West 37 Street, Coney Is Houses is at W 33 Street. Papa Trump did not even begin building Trump village - all the over on W 8th St until 1963. Long after the projects had already changed the neighborhood. Trump village still has middle class working people. The Coney Island projects have mostly poor non-working people. Then NYC built a few more projects and threw in lots of group homes for the mentally ill. It was City government that trashed Coney Is - NOT Papa Trump.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

did they do it in 6 ?

"Six Degrees of Toxic Trump"-- pick any problem and eventually pin it on Trump.

media's favorite game

narciso said...

So it turns out Alice Fisher, seen here:

dai
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/01/20/doj-purdue-pharma-opioid-sackler

And Lanny breuer approved the acosta plea

narciso said...

Correction. About breuer:
https://mobile.twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1150777907364728834

narciso said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
steve uhr said...

I read the 2008 non pros agreement. Among other things, Acosta agrees to shut down the grand jury investigation. Never heard of such a thing. A criminal investigation, which may find evidence of illegal conduct by others, should not be subject to negotiation and closed as part of a plea deal.

So much about the Epstein matter is outside normal operating procedures for US Attorneys. Why,?

narciso said...


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/found-in-epsteins-nyc-mansion-foreign-passport-underage-porn-cash-diamonds-and-more

madAsHell said...

Leslie Wexner is the founder of The Limited, and Victoria's Secret. He also appears to be the benefactor of Jeffrey Epstein.

I'm gonna put on my tin foil hat, and try to connect the conspiracy dots between scantily clad VS supermodels, Lolitas on Little St. James island, and delightfully uncomfortable panties.

Hmmmm....I might need to learn to type with one hand.

narciso said...

Epstein is like a bond villain, the one in casino royale.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

MC2 Models, Brunel, Abercrombie, Wexner---

Jeff Brokaw said...

So glad they looked into this burning question instead of wasting time on public corruption.

RobinGoodfellow said...

Blogger gspencer said...
Money as such is not the root of evil. Rather, it's the love of money, according to 1 Timothy, which is the source.


Most people leave that part out, even though it completely changes the meaning of the adage.

Martin said...

Wow, let's criticize Fred Trump for arranging housing for poor people, presumably using Sec. 8 or some such subsidies.

Anyone else would be lauded.

funsize said...

anyone else would be lionized for housing the impoverished.

Fen said...

"Six Degrees of Toxic Trump"-- pick any problem and eventually pin it on Trump.

Might as well "make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."

Example:
1) Howard claims Trump is a Nazi because the Nazis support Trump.
2) The Nazis agree with Howard's claim.
3) Howard must be a Nazi because the Nazis support him.

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Nichevo said...

Narr said...
Local private lake park with families(?) on July 4th vs Derbs' open free public pool.

Narr
Comment?


1. There's at minimum an entrance fee to keep the rabble out. Unknown screening; memberships, accountability?

2. Unknown mix of potentially more docile guest ethnicities (Massholes less rabid than Calibans? Maybe.)

3. Howie the self-described Hitler Youth is of course a big blond Aryan type, I'm sure the softest thing on him is his swinging, er, his teeth, who no doubt radiates don't-mess-with-me. So he's all right, he's got his, Jack. Don't try this if you evince any human weakness.

I can relate to never feeling intimidated, but the described behaviour and atmosphere sounds annoying, especially if loud and raucous. Hope it was a nice place.