June 25, 2019

"Ms. Carroll, 75, stopped short of using the word 'rape' on Monday to characterize the episode..."

"... which she said in the New York magazine excerpt that she disclosed to two friends at the time. One urged her to report it to the police, while a journalist friend warned her to keep quiet because Mr. Trump would 'bury you.' The New York Times spoke to the two friends, who confirmed that Ms. Carroll had spoken about it with them but said they did not want to be identified. 'I have difficulty with the word,' Ms. Carroll, the author of 'Ask E. Jean' in Elle, said Monday. 'I see it as a fight. He pulled down my tights. It was over very quickly. It was against my will 100 percent.'"

From "‘She’s Not My Type’: Accused Again of Sexual Assault, Trump Resorts to Old Insult" (NYT).

To assume for the sake of discussion that she is telling the truth, I can see why Carroll did not go to the police, why she listened to the journalist friend who warned her that Trump would "bury" her. I haven't read her New York Magazine article, but I see in this Times article, that Trump — as she described it — "asked her to model lingerie that he was looking to purchase." As she tells it, she willingly went into the department store dressing room with him to undress to the point of being able to put on lingerie while he watched. That's consent to some fairly intimate shared behavior, with her undressing and him watching.

Of course, she has the right to withdraw from that plan at any point, but his lawyers would use that level of consent against her, and the question now is whether her allegations are credible in light of her failure to go to the police at the time. And I think the way she's answering that question is that she chose to protect herself from the legal battle in which he would have exploited the evidence she would not deny — that she voluntarily went into the dressing room with him with the express plan to get into lingerie that he had picked out.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that under those circumstances, he was entitled to proceed with ideas about additional activities she might agree to. I'm just talking about how her story today could be true even though she did not report it to the police.

Notice that even today she will not call it "rape." She describes penetration and says "It was against my will 100 percent." I don't understand not calling that rape. That is rape, for sure. She just doesn't want to use the word. Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape?

221 comments:

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WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Jussie Smolettes as far as the eye can see. You need a crime against someone you disagree with? You need to help take down a sitting president because the election didn't go your way? and the fake Russian collusion story imploded?
No problem.
Lie.
You're on the left.
Maddow has you covered.

bagoh20 said...

Just for argument:

1) A woman agrees to get nearly naked in sexually designed clothing in an intimate space with a wealthy famous man. He touches her which she does not stop, and then he has sex with her as she resist it.

2) A male stranger breaks into your house, grabs you, ties you down and has sex with you despite your fighting and scratching and resisting to the best of your ability the whole time.

I have a hard time accepting both these scenarios as the same thing - the same crime.

While the second is an unambiguous assault and crime, the first does have a huge component of implied consent. There are likely millions of such sexual encounters that look exactly the same, but are in fact consensual, or even desired by many. People, including men, hear and read about such encounters, and may even experience them personally - maybe even with great approval from the women involved. It can be a little confusing to get accolades from some for what others consider a vicious crime.

bagoh20 said...

We have "Petty Theft" and we have "Grand Theft", so...?

Oso Negro said...

Blogger tim maguire said...
Oso Negro said...
It's interesting, as a thought experiment, to consider whether there is ANY point in a voluntary sexual encounter at which a woman is no longer free to change her mind and use the simple word "no" to stop whatever a man might be doing or about to do

Either person can call it off at any time. The other person is free to be mad about it, but they are not free to ignore it


What title do you hold in your religious order?

vanderleun said...

Enough with this mentally ill slag, this new Michael Avenatti of rape. Enough with this pre-compost scum.

Birches said...

wwww is fine, but people who have been abused or assaulted have enormous blind spots with this sort of thing. They think that everyone has experienced the same things that they have and that no one would ever lie about it, since they didn't and wouldn't.

Darkisland said...

Something else happened last Friday that may have some bearing on this story. The article is about a press conference on Monday but the troops were deployed last week:

Mexico deploys 15,000 troops to U.S. border
By
Darryl Coote

June 25 (UPI) -- Mexico has deployed nearly 15,000 troops to its northern border as part of efforts to stop migrants from entering the United States, the country's Secretary of Defense Luis Cresencio Sandoval said.

"In the northern part of the country, we have deployed a total of almost 15,000 troops composed of National Guard elements and military units," Sandoval said Monday during a press conference.

He said another 2,000 National Guard troops had already been deployed to the country's southern border with Belize and Guatemala.

[emph added]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2019/06/25/Mexico-deploys-15000-troops-to-US-border/5141561444271/

Just to be clear, this is Mexico's northern border with the US. Thats a lot of troops. In some ways even better than a wall, though they could be withdrawn tomorrow while a wall is somewhat more permanent.

But Dick and other LLRs assured us that PDJT would never get Mexico to pay for a wall. That's still to seen but Mexico does seem to be paying for this.

These 15m Mexican troops on the northern border are in addition to the 6m or so they have already sent to the southern border. Plus 2m more last week.

I can't find the story just now but there was a story somewhere about border crossings last week being down 30% or so. Putting 15m troops there can tend to have that effect.

So how is this related to miss looney-tunes? Well, when you need to keep a good news story like this off the news, a sexy rape story may be just the thing.

Like Kruschev and the shoe, the story itself is completely unimportant. All it need do it keep the border story out of people's minds for a few days.

A couple of other stories that it helps to cover up are some good news on healthcare: A new law/regulation requiring pricing transparency for hospitals. Health Resource Accounts came into being last week.

Both of these seem like pretty big deals on the road to replacing Obamacare with a workable health system. But you won't hear about them hear on Althouse or much of anyplace else.

Because?

RAAAAAAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Henry

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Althouse, you should be ashamed of yourself.”

Seriously Althouse, how can you stand your own commenters? A more disgusting group would be hard to find.

Drago said...

Hoax dossier/hoax collusion Truther Inga: "Seriously Althouse, how can you stand your own commenters? A more disgusting group would be hard to find."

Inga takes time out from pushing a hoax dossier/collusion conspiracy theory, supporting a pro-MS13/Pro-infanticide party as well as obvious and transparent hoax rape claims against Brett Kavanaugh and Donald Trump to label others "disgusting".

Discuss.

Also: Hillary lost.

Stop lying and get over it.

Quaestor said...

Burgdorf dressing room rape fantasy.

narciso said...

well cooper is shameless, the Charlie rose case is full of irony, what's happened to him and moonves and lauer,

Anonymous said...

"Last I read the number of women making sexual assault accusations against Judge Kavanaugh was up to 1600."

Holy shit who does he think he is, Wilt Chamberlain?

Seriously though, if a man raped a different woman every day for 5 years he'd hit 1600. But that would require a tremendous amount of risk. Nobody could get away with that. If he took his time, carefully planned it out, and only raped one woman a week, it would take ... 30 years.

These women are obvious liars, and their enablers are scum.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Interview - CNN Morning Show

Oof.

Gabriel said...

@Phil:"Last I read the number of women making sexual assault accusations against Judge Kavanaugh was up to 1600."

Holy shit who does he think he is, Wilt Chamberlain?

Seriously though, if a man raped a different woman every day for 5 years he'd hit 1600.


If Kavanaugh were the most prolific rapist in history, then at least 1000 women were lying.

RigelDog said...

wwww quoted me, then replied: "I think that the underlying motivation is often simply to get sex; the point of the violence or coercion is to apply however much force is needed to get the sex."

Yeah but this doesn't explain why a young man chooses to rape a elderly, disabled woman? Is that just about sex? Why would a soldier, during the occupation of a city, rape whoever is in the house -- children, old women? Vengeance, right? )))

I completely agree. If you read the second half of my comment on power/violence and rape, I note that further down the continuum there are attacks were the violence/exercise of power itself is obviously a goal. I just think that the basis for SOME rape IS the desire for sex. In the same way that robbery is the use of force to take property; the underlying motivation is getting the stuff and the robber uses force as a means and not an end. But, sometimes it's obvious that the robber is at least as interested in the power he feels over his victim as he is in getting their stuff.

gadfly said...

So Donald Trump has identified a "type" of woman that he prefers to rape! Got it!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

On the left, yelling rape is just as easy as faking an orgasm.

Or drinking too much and coming on to Anderson Cooper live on CNN.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

gadfly - you show your true colors with that kinda logic. You'll do will in camp leftwing totalitarian asshole.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

She's a nutter, but Gadfly buys it wholesale. Because the Cult of Trump hate. It itches.

Deevs said...

Came across this video today. Turns out there was an episode of Law and Order: SVU where the exact situation this lady is describing (including the store) is also described. Not great for her credibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5c1h4GvP6M

Unknown said...

I do all my raping at Walmart

I ask the big gals in pajamas

"Will you try on these $3 Crocs for me"?

Then like Billy Bob in "Bad Santa" I make they can't shit right for a week

Call me a low end playboy

but works all the time

never been caught

Sure I'll write a book

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