June 25, 2019

"Ms. Carroll, 75, stopped short of using the word 'rape' on Monday to characterize the episode..."

"... which she said in the New York magazine excerpt that she disclosed to two friends at the time. One urged her to report it to the police, while a journalist friend warned her to keep quiet because Mr. Trump would 'bury you.' The New York Times spoke to the two friends, who confirmed that Ms. Carroll had spoken about it with them but said they did not want to be identified. 'I have difficulty with the word,' Ms. Carroll, the author of 'Ask E. Jean' in Elle, said Monday. 'I see it as a fight. He pulled down my tights. It was over very quickly. It was against my will 100 percent.'"

From "‘She’s Not My Type’: Accused Again of Sexual Assault, Trump Resorts to Old Insult" (NYT).

To assume for the sake of discussion that she is telling the truth, I can see why Carroll did not go to the police, why she listened to the journalist friend who warned her that Trump would "bury" her. I haven't read her New York Magazine article, but I see in this Times article, that Trump — as she described it — "asked her to model lingerie that he was looking to purchase." As she tells it, she willingly went into the department store dressing room with him to undress to the point of being able to put on lingerie while he watched. That's consent to some fairly intimate shared behavior, with her undressing and him watching.

Of course, she has the right to withdraw from that plan at any point, but his lawyers would use that level of consent against her, and the question now is whether her allegations are credible in light of her failure to go to the police at the time. And I think the way she's answering that question is that she chose to protect herself from the legal battle in which he would have exploited the evidence she would not deny — that she voluntarily went into the dressing room with him with the express plan to get into lingerie that he had picked out.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that under those circumstances, he was entitled to proceed with ideas about additional activities she might agree to. I'm just talking about how her story today could be true even though she did not report it to the police.

Notice that even today she will not call it "rape." She describes penetration and says "It was against my will 100 percent." I don't understand not calling that rape. That is rape, for sure. She just doesn't want to use the word. Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape?

222 comments:

1 – 200 of 222   Newer›   Newest»
Mike Sylwester said...

... asked her to model lingerie that he was looking to purchase ... she willingly went into the department store dressing room with him to undress to the point of being able to put on lingerie while he watched

Seems like there was an understanding that he would pay her for this sexual service.

rhhardin said...

Women do a lot of mind-changing. Maybe she's taking that into account in not calling it rape.

She hadn't decided whether she'd consented or not until she wrote a book about it.

If you can't change your mind when in a changing room, when can you change it.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape>"

No. She's one of those people who tell ridiculous lies.

chuck said...

You completely miss the point, she's nuts. You might as well analyse a claim that the moon is made of blue cheese. I miss the World Weekly News, I bet Ann does too :)

Shouting Thomas said...

The foundation of Marxist feminism is the belief that the enforcement mechanism of sexist oppression is rape, and that rape is tacitly condoned by all men as a class.

This woman is a Marist feminist ideologue, as is Althouse.

Both are ideologically predisposed to lie about rape to further their political ambitions.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

To assume for the sake of discussion that she is telling the truth, I can see why Carroll did not go to the police, why she listened to the journalist friend who warned her that Trump would "bury" her.

Are you kidding?

First of all, I assume she is lying. Why? What convenient bullshit. 'I was too afraid to go to the police because Trump would bury me' - is as cliche as it gets.

Why is that fear gone now?
If you were raped, and you go to the police.

rhhardin said...

She may also be indifferent to whether she has sex or not, so it doesn't rise to rape by way of not being significant to her.

Consent or not doesn't come up for her so long as the guy has some advantages for her.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

She and her hacks in the lying Maddow press are getting what they want. People thinking "Lets assume it's all true"

Lets assume it's all bullshit.

Tom T. said...

Maybe she thinks that if she doesn't use the actual word, she's stopping short of actual defamation.

Matt said...

I don't believe a single word of this lady's story.

After the Kavanaugh vs. Dana-Carvey-In-Drag fiasco from last year, the burden of proof on the woman has gone WAAAAAYYYYYY up.


BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Blasey Ford was given the benefit of the doubt and she's a total freaking liar with no credibility.

Oh - but she was too afraid to fly on an aircraft all those time she flew happily across the globe. Her trauma poked its ugly head at just the right time.

rhhardin said...

The moon is made of green cheese, not blue.

At best, grue (green before 2000 and blue thereafter, used in pre-2000 philosophy courses to show that evidence isn't as definitive as you might think).

h said...

I read this a lot of main stream media acting with great caution because they realize (not to be admitted publically) that they were taken in by the false accusations by Christine Blasey Ford.

doctrev said...

Another thread devoted to this subject! Truly, this is a blessed day for Trev.

Fantasy Carroll, for only in fantasy can this truly stupid story exist, can't possibly be dumb enough to think that a man wants her menopausal rear to model the underwear that Marla Maples would wear. Okay, let's be honest, that the legion of sidepieces trailing 90's Donald Trump would wear. That she thinks people are dumb enough to believe that a multi-billionaire could outrage her in a department store, and that she would be too scared of the insane amount of cash and prizes she could win for calling a store assistant or the police is...

... apparently right on the money.

Shouting Thomas said...

VP Mike Pence seems to be the only man left with a sensible plan, doesn't he?

Lucid-Ideas said...

@rhhardin

"If you can't change your mind when in a changing room, when can you change it."

That is entirely the point. Making decisions means logically having the agency to take responsibility for those decisions, and this is something 'many' (not 'most') women have a problem with. A decision means they can be 'pinned down', losing the ability to take advantage of better options as they appear regardless of whether these decisions are sexual or not.

This is the entire premise of the modern re-textualizing of the word 'rape'. 'Rape' is now a stand-in for anything that disadvantages a woman or her pet causes regardless of whether or not she was 100% responsible for the decision that led to that outcome.

paminwi said...

On CNN she said rape isn't about violence it's about sex.
She's not very "woke" is she?
Poor Anderson Cooper had to go to beak after that comment.

h said...

Oops. I just scrolled down the Althouse article two items below which makes my point clearly.

rhhardin said...

Grue is also french slang for prostitute.

Kevin said...

“100% against my will” doesn’t mean she said anything to let him know.

Clearly she would have been asked about that.

Martha said...

“Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape>"

Maybe Carroll is one of those women who upon reflexion the morning after realizes the sex and sequelae did not meet her expectations.
So she reclassifies the tawdry sex as RAPE! because she is NOT that kind of gal—the kind that has a quickie with someone she barely knows in a department store dressing room.

doctrev said...

Check your privilege, paminwi! You're just repeating propaganda. She actually said that "most people think rape is sexy." Leaving off who she hangs out with to make this seem plausible, she clearly sees a positive, "sexy" aspect to rape no matter how violent it is. In fact, it might be the violence that restores power to her desiccated ovaries, to the point where she fantasizes that she is SO HOT, the future President would have his way with her in a department store dressing room.

rhhardin said...

I want to hear Trump plundering stories. Raping is so over.

Mike Sylwester said...

I think she was a call girl who serviced rich playboys like Donald Trump. Those were the circumstances of this incident, which I think did happen.

That's why those other two women intend to remain anonymous. Either they too were call girls or else they don't want to be asked questions along those lines.

How much money did she charge Trump for this particular fantasy play?

How many clients did she service?

Not an oldster. said...

More likely, both were playing consensual sexual games in a high-end semi-public way. Neither walked away that day thinking anything but a consensual rape occurred, but later she had second thoughs about whether that was really good sex for her.

This was before we taught upper class women in college to say NO to rape and uneanted sexual attention.

Fernandistein said...

Does Hunter [Thompson], the greatest degenerate of his generation, who kept yelling, “Off with your pants!” as he sliced the leggings from my body with a long knife in his hot tub, make the list? Naw.

And if having my pants hacked off by a man lit to the eyebrows with acid, Chivas Regal, Champagne, grass, Chartreuse, Dunhills, cocaine, and Dove Bars does not make the list — because to me there is a big difference between an “adventure” and an “attack” — who, in God’s name, does make my Hideous List?
++

Fen said...

she voluntarily went into the dressing room with him with the express plan to get into lingerie that he had picked out.

I've heard that a certain type of woman will even LET you grab her by the pussy for a chance to marry your bank account.

Oso Negro said...

It's interesting, as a thought experiment, to consider whether there is ANY point in a voluntary sexual encounter at which a woman is no longer free to change her mind and use the simple word "no" to stop whatever a man might be doing or about to do. I am sure our hostess will say there is no such point. However, I think this is not grounded in biological reality. Men, on average, are bigger and stronger than women. Women have many powers over men, and the power of pussy, not their kindness, their intelligence, or their verbal reasoning ability is the biggest. At some point, if you have put your pussy in play, say, lingerie modeling in a department store dressing room, the man is just gonna go ahead and grab it. You can play the game of "a woman is always free to change her mind no matter what", but once the penis is entering the happy zone, reality is gonna win. Men who let women change their minds right up to the moment of ejaculation will be under-represented in the future. Darwin says splooge stooges rule.

Dave Begley said...

I first thought that this woman was way too late to the show. And then I caught a bit of Steven Colbert last night. He said she was about the 20th woman (I can't recall the exact number) who has made allegations against Trump. He then make a joking analogy that all of these women can't be wrong. Fair point. And that's why many female voters hate Trump and will never vote for him.

There's something there. Trump was a sexual prowler in his younger days. And, being a rich and famous guy, many women probably consented to his bold and crass moves. ("Grab them by the pussy.") Whether he actually raped a woman is subject to considerable doubt.

My point is that all of this sex stuff is now baked into the electorate. We know that Trump is no saint. But he's an effective president that gets stuff done that has never been accomplished before. And he puts America first. He's tough on our enemies. And I really like his policy positions. He wins re-election.

Fen said...

What convenient bullshit. 'I was too afraid to go to the police because Trump would bury me' - is as cliche as it gets.

Why is that fear gone now?


Good point. Trump is technically the most powerful man in the world.

Lucien said...

Her claim that she doesn’t think her story describes a rape provides plausible deniability against the question “why didn’t you yell ‘Help! Rape!’ In the Bergdorff Goodman dressing rooms?”

And then, since the facts asserted in the story add up to rape, everyone else can make that conclusion.

Laslo Spatula said...

By describing it as rape but not calling it 'rape' she gets to make the charge, and has her follow-up excuse as to why she does not want it to be investigated.

A lifetime of devout feminism leaves many older women crazy.

They get to an age where they realize the promises did not bring them the happiness they expected, and the gears start slipping.

I am Laslo.

Tom T. said...

Did she explain why she was unable to overcome her fear of Trump's retaliation before the election, but managed to do so in time for the sale of her memoir?

Oso Negro said...

And don't give me the "it's no longer voluntary if a women changes her mind argument". It's more like stopping a freight train than switching off a light. Sometimes the school bus full of kids gets run over at the crossing.

Hari said...

A male public figure walks into one of the most exclusive stores in the world alone; runs into well-known woman (who specializes in giving women advice); proceeds to talk her into taking lingerie into a dressing room (where for some reason, no one is around); then rapes her (no yelling or screaming is heard); he then just walks out of the store. Is this because the sociopath rapist only did this one time and just got lucky? Because he does this on a regular basis, and his lawyers just make the problem go away? Would this be plausible even in a movie?

n.n said...

This may be, at best, the female equivalent of "splooge stooge". At worse, the Democrats hunting witches, again, with hopes and dreams of holding warlock trials, again. Vive la sexual revolution! Women and men were poorly advised. #HateLovesAbortion

tim maguire said...

I don't understand not calling that rape.

Assuming her claim is true (and maybe it is), I think what you go on to say is correct--she feels that by getting nearly naked with him in the change room, she implied that she was up for what happened next. She holds herself partly responsible. Besides, I'm sure at the time she thought of herself as a good-time girl and good-time girls did stuff like this from time to time. No biggie.


It seems to me that the sales clerk who let them into the change room would probably remember the small role they played in helping Donald Trump get it on with some woman in the change room. A statement from this person would be helpful.

Leland said...

Who brings a person, that's not a significant other, into a dressing room to let them see you try on underwear?

I agree with others, such a person is typically paid. I also understand that payment is likely for a certain level of service and does not cover all possible services. Perhaps that's why she's wouldn't go to the police. If her story is true, and she already has suggested that she's not beyond being corrupted.

Howard said...

Blogger Shouting Thomas said...

VP Mike Pence seems to be the only man left with a sensible plan, doesn't he?


You go right ahead and become a closeted gay man on the down low.

rhhardin said...

Maybe it will all have a happy ending.

Tom T. said...

Dave Begley: "And that's why many female voters hate Trump and will never vote for him."

Fair point, but we ought to keep in mind as well that Trump won a majority of white women in 2016.

Mike Sylwester said...

Many successful politicians have been sexually promiscuous.

It's one of many factors to consider when voting.

This story is not going to change the minds of a significant number of voters.

------

Trump is defending Christians who own small businesses -- photographers, florists, pizza makers -- whom Democrat zealots are trying to bankrupt.

Therefore, Christians will continue to vote for Trump overwhelmingly.

Howard said...

Blogger BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

She and her hacks in the lying Maddow press are getting what they want. People thinking "Lets assume it's all true"

Lets assume it's all bullshit.


From my perspective, it's worse than bullshit, it makes Trump look like a victim. The retard msm keeps helping his reelection prospects

Leland said...

Also in the news, Rep. Nadler kept referring to Hope Hicks as Ms. Lewandowski. And in a closed door session, apparently thought it was important to understand Ms. Hicks dating life, because this is important to Congressional Democrats.

Lucid-Ideas said...

Why doesn't this merit the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" tag?

I propose it definitely qualifies.

Seeing Red said...

Was she ever near Bill?

Dave said...

I appreciate the way Ann closely examines what is said and not said. I find myself better prepared to discuss issues that might normally blindside me. This blog is an easy way for me to peer out of my bubble.

Howard said...

hahaha Trump looks for hookers who say "me so hoorny, me love you short time"

n.n said...

A lifetime of devout feminism leaves many older women crazy.

It is well established by reform feminists (a la reform Black Panthers) that feminism is the worse enemy of women. Equal in rights and complementary in Nature. Reconcile. Debasing human life through the Pro-Choice two... three choices too late, that denies women and men's franchise, and the life of a baby, only served to progress the dysfunction.

Lance said...

The fitting room episode took place in late 1995 or early 1996, according to Ms. Carroll

Again assuming Carroll is telling the truth, was she influenced by the Jones accusation against Bill Clinton? 1996 was an election year after all. Wouldn't a sexual assault allegation against Trump have led to increased interest in Jones' allegation against Pres. Clinton?

Or maybe the Clintons' treatment of Jones further convinced her that accusing Trump would be a bad idea.?

Henry said...

Lots of argument by assertion here. "I know she's lying because she's a LIAR" is a meaningless assertion.

20 years ago was the Bill Clinton era. Ms. Carroll would have had plenty of reason to believe that a rape accusation against a powerful man would not be believed and would have been next to impossible to prove in a court.

20 years ago Bill Cosby had already been accused publicly of sexual assault, yet most of his dozens of victims did not come forward for years.

Kobe Bryant's sexual assault case was in 2003. Bryant, flush with money and media consultants used the defense that would have been at Trump's disposal. The case was dropped when Bryant's accuser refused to testify.

stevew said...

When I say "not my type" I mean the person in question is not my wife, who is my (only) type.

Fen said...

Wait. Wasn't she also a model for Titleist's Russian Office? If so, that changes everything!

(pins Carroll selfie to Wall Of Collusion (tm), runs red yarn across wall to "Russia")

Where's Chuck? Is he back yet with his Titleist Pro V1x findings? Find him STAT! This could be the tipping point, the walls closing in, the beginning of the end!

(hey! who bogarted all the tinfoil?)



wendybar said...

Actions have consequences (at least they used to). WHY would she let him come into the dressing room with her. DUMB as a rock or did she want it too?

tim maguire said...

Oso Negro said...
It's interesting, as a thought experiment, to consider whether there is ANY point in a voluntary sexual encounter at which a woman is no longer free to change her mind and use the simple word "no" to stop whatever a man might be doing or about to do


Either person can call it off at any time. The other person is free to be mad about it, but they are not free to ignore it.

wendybar said...

Dave Begley said...
I first thought that this woman was way too late to the show. And then I caught a bit of Steven Colbert last night

UHHGGGGGG!!! Better you then me. I cringe when I hear Colbert commercials. He makes my skin crawl.

roesch/voltaire said...

Well if she was his type does that mean he would have gone in all the way?

Michael said...

It is not really rape to her because she kinda wanted it but then he only kinda fucked her. Or not.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lewis Wetzel said...

Of course, she has the right to withdraw from that plan at any point,Of course, she has the right to withdraw from that plan at any point,Of course, she has the right to withdraw from that plan at any point,

And I have the right to walk down the most dangerous street in town.
And, anyway, Trump denies it, the friends witnessed nothing but her telling a story, and Trump is a germaphobe.

Michael K said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
President-Mom-Jeans said...

Retarded feminist boomer academic gives airtime to lying boomer lefty cunt. News at 11. Although to be fair, she gives a time and place, which is much more than it took to get our idiot hostess to believe that other lying cunt when she made up shit about Kavanaugh.

Beasts of England said...

That was a great clip, Fen!! Almost as fun as watching those idiots on election night in 2016...

Bobb said...

Notice that even today she will not call it "rape." She describes penetration and says "It was against my will 100 percent." I don't understand not calling that rape.

It's not rape, because even she knows that it is at best fantasy.

Fen said...

Question for the ladies here:

If I asked you to model lingerie for me, what would you think I was asking you to do?

Would you assume I have expectations of something more than that happening?

If you didn't want to engage in "that", would you still agree to model lingerie for me?

wwww said...

"As she tells it, she willingly went into the department store dressing room with him to undress to the point of being able to put on lingerie while he watched. That's consent to some fairly intimate shared behavior, with her undressing and him watching."

You are in Error. She did not consent to undress. She told him no. She told him she would put the lingerie on him, because it matched his eyes. She was a SNL writer at the time and thought he was absurd and hilarious.

Unfortunately, she did not suspect him of being a rapist. Too naive. She let herself get tricked into a situation where he could assault her, shove her against the wall, bang her head, put his shoulder into her chest while she fought and rip off her hose, and stick it in. She stomped on him and pushed him and managed to run.

She blamed herself for getting into a situation that gave a rapist the opportunity to rape. He attacked given the opportunity. A rapist will take what he wants without consent and with violence.

FIDO said...

I just watched her on Anderson Cooper. She seems like a loon in how she processes questions, answers them, and goes way out there in how she personally dealt with Cooper.

zipity said...


This woman is clearly a loon. And the Lame Stream Media©, in their never ending "Orange Man Bad" campaign, could not help themselves. They HAD to promote this mentally compromised lunatic because it promotes their campaign and narrative.

If the Lame Stream Media© had any credibility left to lose, it would have lost it here.

n.n said...

I see my comment vanished. Google

Google, presumably under its umbrella corporation, Alphabet, has spoken truth to fascism. As have a number of progressive... liberal platforms.

Henry said...

So now the Trump defenders has moved on from "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" to "the bitch was asking for it" -- great defense work, all you Perry Masons.

FIDO said...

And it is funny. She DISTINCTLY in that interview characterized rape, not as a crime but 'something people think is sexy.'

Like...perhaps...um...

Cooper, gobsmacked (he gets that a lot) quickly cut to commercial.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

9:46 Fen

Perfect.
*The beginning of the end!* butthurt D-hack hivemind echo-chamber in lockstep narrative.
* Trump is a Russian Spy who committed obstruction of justice! *
The D-hack D-whore newz.

wwww said...

Quote the magazine story. She talks about it all, quite explicitly. She knows she allowed a rapist to get advantage over her. She knows she was too trusting.

It's why her friend, at the time, told her to "tell no one" He has "200 lawyers and he will bury you."

Rapists get away with it, because who would believe her? After all, she's a old woman and "not his type."

FIDO said...

Henry, did you SEE her interview?

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

yes - lets watch the hack press give all sorts of attention to Juanita Broderick.

Bobb said...

If a multi-millionaire visits a retail establishment, I find it hard to believe that there is not a salesperson constantly in his presence to meet his every need.

Nonapod said...

I don't particularly enjoy speculating on whether a story about a well known public figure absent hard evidence is true. I know that some people love that sort of thing, especially when it involves a person they hate. I'll only observe that when you hate someone, you're more willing to believe any negative story about them even when it boils down to just a single person's word.

And then in this specific case, I find it suspicious that this story is being resurfaced at a time when it has been noted that Trump's approval is soft among college educated women. Of course that doesn't mean this particularly story isn't true, or at least elements of it aren't true.

wwww said...

You’re so old!” he says, laughing — he was around 50 himself — and it’s at about this point that he drops the hat, looks in the direction of the escalator, and says, “Lingerie!” Or he may have said “Underwear!” So we stroll to the escalator. I don’t remember anybody else greeting him or galloping up to talk to him, which indicates how very few people are in the store at the time.

I have no recollection where lingerie is in that era of Bergdorf’s, but it seems to me it is on a floor with the evening gowns and bathing suits, and when the man and I arrive — and my memory now is vivid — no one is present.

There are two or three dainty boxes and a lacy see-through bodysuit of lilac gray on the counter. The man snatches the bodysuit up and says: “Go try this on!”

“You try it on,” I say, laughing. “It’s your color.”

“Try it on, come on,” he says, throwing it at me.

“It goes with your eyes,” I say, laughing and throwing it back.

“You’re in good shape,” he says, holding the filmy thing up against me. “I wanna see how this looks.”

“But it’s your size,” I say, laughing and trying to slap him back with one of the boxes on the counter.

“Come on,” he says, taking my arm. “Let’s put this on.”

This is gonna be hilarious, I’m saying to myself — and as I write this, I am staggered by my stupidity. As we head to the dressing rooms, I’m laughing aloud and saying in my mind: I’m gonna make him put this thing on over his pants!

bleh said...

"... but his lawyers would use that level of consent against her ..."

I don't think so. That assumes there was some sort of encounter between them, which Trump denies. His lawyers would only "use" her story against her like that if her story could be a categorical defense to rape, which it isn't, as you note. His lawyers would be crazy to give an inch by effectively conceding Trump was with her in the dressing room at Bergdorf. You generally only assume arguendo when the point you're making is that your client is entitled to relief no matter what, even assuming what the other party says is true.

bleh said...

The only way his lawyers would "use that level consent against her" is if she was on the stand testifying or testifying at a deposition. In other words, it would be in response to her sworn testimony. It's not something Trump's lawyers would affirmatively concede and try to make use of. That's just not realistic.

doctrev said...

Henry, you MUST keep awareness alive. Whenever the Trump-owned media tries to shut down feminists screaming that Trump loves raping menopausal Manhattanites, you must be there to set them straight. Whenever Trump tries to keep this IMPORTANT subject alive with "poorly" considered tweets, you must sift through them relentlessly. Whenever someone says "gee, if only this fruitcake had made these allegations back in 2016 when it could have mattered, WE NEED TO CRUCIFY HER," you... need to agree- honestly, liberals are on edge right now and this might have had more impact than non-existent Russian collusion.

THIS IS YOUR TIME!

Big Mike said...

To assume for the sake of discussion that she is telling the truth ...

Is to to assume something no intelligent, neutral individual would assume.

Women lie. All the time. When Althouse tries to imagine some way this woman is nor lying, she is herself lying, to us perhaps, or to herself more likely.

bleh said...

But as far as I know there's no legal case against Trump that is currently pending or even being contemplated. So why would his lawyers "use" anything she says against her? She's out there hawking a book and saying outlandish things. To accept anything she's been saying as even possibly true would be insane and tend to harm Trump. No, his lawyers won't "use that level of consent against her."

Trump will deny he ever did anything to her or was ever alone with her. That's it. Denial, denial, denial.

William said...

Who made the more credible accusations: the Fairfax accusers, the Kavanaugh accusers, or this woman? Can anyone here, off the top of their head, name the Fairfax accusers. The subtext to these allegations is the bias of the media in their reporting.....If Carroll, as some have noted, is an attention whore, then she has succeeded beyond her wildest dreams. Trump knew many other celebrities back in the day. If they also want a bit more attention before the footlights are doused, they only have to write a book about their interactions with Trump. Just so long as those interactions are lurid and sensational, the book is sure to be successful......Has Les Moonves commented on the allegations? She screwed up there. She should have said Roger Ailes.

Shouting Thomas said...

So now the Trump defenders has moved on from "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" to "the bitch was asking for it" -- great defense work, all you Perry Masons.

Well, yeah, if the story happened as she says (extremely unlikely), she was asking for it.

Gary said...

Over 10,000 lies since taking office. 21 sexual assault allegations. A long history of bigotry. Constant insults and smears of others. Billions of dollars in bankruptcies that always seems to mainly lose other people's money. Repeated frauds on a massive scale. Around 18 criminal investigations ongoing. Implement new policies to separate families at the borders and stick kids in animal pens with no blankets and supplies. Never seems to show a decent human side.
His response to this, "she's not my type" (!!!) "I never met her" despite photos of them together, and others from that time showing her looking just like his wife.
Someday a lot of people will have to take a long shower and consider how much they sold their soul to support this lying immoral conman just to stick it to liberals.

Ice Nine said...

Don't you think it is getting to be about time the Democrats realize that their phony rape scams on Republicans would probably work better if they recruited a few of their rapey shills from the ranks of the sane?

jaydub said...

"To assume for the sake of discussion that she is telling the truth, I can see why Carroll did not go to the police..."

For the sake of discussion assume that she had a habit of pulling trains in department store dressing rooms and was just angry she couldn't find a billionaire play the caboose. Or, maybe she just offered to blow him instead and took offense when he asked her to rinse with Listerine first. I can see why she wouldn't go to the police for that reason too. Or maybe she is just full of shit and there was nothing to go to the police about. I can see how that could happen too. So many possibilities to consider and discuss why stop with just the one?

Ice Nine said...

She came on to Anderson Cooper on national television. That's hilarious.

Anderson, dude, do not leave your rabbit in the kitchen tomorrow - I beg you.

gilbar said...

tell me again, why she didn't mention this during the election?
Please use some other reason than: she hadn't finished fabrication yet

narciso said...

They cant even find sane candidates, forget about same accusers

Bay Area Guy said...

25 year old allegations, sorry, just don't have much credibility.

The delay in reporting the rape to the police suggests that the something else other than rape happened.

That's just the way it is. Yes, I'm sure some women are reluctant to report it to the police (fear, retaliation, embarrassment), but many women timely report such crimes to the police and many women make up and/or exaggerate shit.

So, you gotta balance all that out.

Carroll speaks like an crazy, old woke woman, trying to sell a book or get attention.

Kevin said...

And then I caught a bit of Steven Colbert last night. He said she was about the 20th woman (I can't recall the exact number) who has made allegations against Trump. He then make a joking analogy that all of these women can't be wrong.

Scott Adams points out there are probably 20 allegations against Hillary that she's involved in murdering people.

Does Colbert think she's a murderer?

doctrev said...

Ice, that is hilarious. Now I'm starting to wonder if Anderson actually is gay, or if he just shouts it to stop less attractive women like Carroll and Kathy Griffin from trying to jump his bones.

MikeR said...

Dunno. The stuff about not wanting to downgrade the plight of women south of the border is just lunatic.

n.n said...

In a civilized society where the accused has a presumption of innocence, or in a liberal society where activists prosecute multi-trimester witch hunts and warlock trials, normal people... persons will note a presumption of innocence. Either way, the hunters and press should be Planned in the market. That said, boys and girls, men and women, were poorly advised by social liberals, and feminists with a cause and without a clue coping with multi-decadal and progressive regrets for their choices. In this particular case, Democrats FUCT women for political leverage.

MikeR said...

@Gary "Over 10,000 lies since taking office. 21 sexual assault allegations. A long history of bigotry. Constant insults and smears of others. Billions of dollars in bankruptcies that always seems to mainly lose other people's money. Repeated frauds on a massive scale. Around 18 criminal investigations ongoing. Implement new policies to separate families at the borders and stick kids in animal pens with no blankets and supplies. Never seems to show a decent human side."
When I read this kind of thing, I have to wonder: Is this person unaware that every single thing he posted is slanted, skewed? It says more about Gary than about the people he thinks to criticize.

Bruce Hayden said...

Blogger Dave Begley said...
“I first thought that this woman was way too late to the show. And then I caught a bit of Steven Colbert last night. He said she was about the 20th woman (I can't recall the exact number) who has made allegations against Trump. He then make a joking analogy that all of these women can't be wrong. Fair point. And that's why many female voters hate Trump and will never vote for him.”

Yet with Kavenaugh, the good little Catholic alter boy who actually appears to have saved himself for marriage, there were apparently hundreds of women making allegations against him. Volume of allegations does not imply guilt here, since the facet, the aspect of women, that is intentionally ignored by most in discussing this sort of thing is that many females, starting young, and continuing well into adulthood, will say whatever it takes to join a group. Would a woman lie about rape? Damn right she might, if her best friend makes such a claim. It’s part of female bonding. In this case, being “raped” by OrangeManBad is probably worth tens of thousands in book sales to liberal white women showing their bona rides by putting her book ahead of the one by Mark Levin that was #1 the last time I looked.

Anyone who believes that women don’t lie all the time about sex don’t look very closely at society and human nature. The thing that still gets women executed in Muslim countries, adultery, is an age old problem, based on the justified fear that a woman will lie about the paternity of her children, and the husband, who is not the biological father, will expend his scant resources raising some other man’s genetic progeny. In some places, they have found better than 1/5 of the kids sired this way with genetic testing. And in almost every one of those cases, the woman involved lied about sex, when she essentially lied about paternity of her kids to her husband.

Why do women lie about sex in that way? Because they are caught between two imperatives, two drives. One is for the best genetic material for her kids, and the second is to have a husband who can help her raise her kids. And, in many cases, if he knows that they aren’t his kids, he will look elsewhere for a wife.

And that is another part of why this isn’t going to hurt Trump. More likely than not, I think that she is the liar. Sure Trump might have met her and her husband, but would he recognize her later, given the hundreds he probably met a week? Esp if she were with her husband?

FIDO said...

Assume, for the sake of argument, she is lying.

What responsibility does the press have to do due diligence in checking to see if she is not yet another Smear Queen like the 16 others who dropped their suits immediately after the election?

Any? Henry? Henry? Should someone be checking a TWO YEAR PERIOD to see if this lady was even there?

Why can't these ladies ever remember any distinct time and place stamps EVER when they throw accusations against Republicans?

Because they are trying to sell to Althouses, who want to believe so evidence isn't necessary.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Fed asks: Question for the ladies here:

Fen Q: "If I asked you to model lingerie for me, what would you think I was asking you to do?

A: Might be some sex involved.

Fen Q: "Would you assume I have expectations of something more than that happening?"

A: There might be sex involved. and If I did not want sex, I can assure you I would not invite you into my dressing room. A dressing room where I am wearing nothing but a scanty lacy sexy silky nothing string. I probably want sex. but if I change my mind mid-way thru, and decades later - you raped me. OK?

Fen Q: If you didn't want to engage in "that", would you still agree to model lingerie for me?

A: Is it the 1980's? I feel like I'm in the 1980s. uh - Sex might occur. But again - If my brain shuts off half way thru - you might be raping me as I seduce you with my sexy negligee.

Rick said...

There's a high likelihood the entire event is made up. Her assertion that people generally believe rape is sexy is absurd in a way that reminds me of the UVA Rape Hoax.

There's a certain strand of feminism which obsesses over rape and the extreme insular nature of their discussions leave the participants with a warped understanding of what non-participants think of rape. They claim outsiders aren't sufficiently against rape both to enhance women's victimhood and to express their own heroism in standing against an evil society.

You can see Anderson Cooper reacting to her absurd assertion even though he doesn't try to understand how it might reveal more about her belief set. But her claim that she didn't think her accusations of rape by the POTUS would draw this level of attention is consistent with this attitude even though it is flatly unbelievable to normals. With this mindset a lie would only be a little white lie to enhances her victim status instead of a bombshell drawing major media and political scrutiny.

This is exactly what Jackie Coakley from UVA misunderstood as well.

Beasts of England said...

'Someday a lot of people will have to take a long shower and consider how much they sold their soul to support this lying immoral conman just to stick it to liberals.'

Cool story, dude...

Darkisland said...

Are men allowed in the ladies dressing rooms at any stores? That is the first thing that struck me about this story.

Second, it is a dressing room. Not a lot of privacy. if she had said "No." I find it hard to believe someone would not have heard it. If she had said no the least bit forcefully, I guarantee someone would have heard it and been in there pronto.

My understanding is that they had never met. So she is going to try on lingerie for someone she doesn't know other than by his reputation as a down at the heels, has-been, bankrupt, (at the time) celebrity? As they say, "when you are a celebrity, they let you grab them by the pussy." Is this what she had in mind? Letting a celebrity grab her pussy?

The woman, by her own admission, is batshit crazy. As I understand the book it is about her top 20 abusive relationships. Not all of them, just the top 20. No sane woman is in 20 abusive relationships. One, sure. Two, maybe. More than that, especially as many as she seems to have had, and it is her fault for hooking up with these men.

Apparently Gloria Allred's daughter, Lisa Bloom, is involved. This adds a whole 'nother level of stink.

PDJT should sue the woman.

It's just publicity to gin up book sales. Without Trump, who would give a shit about this pathetic loser? I say pathetic loser because from what I read about the book, this is exactly what she is, assuming the book is true.

John Henry

gilbar said...

the whole thing was Seared, Seared into her memory; and she has the lingerie TO THIS DAY!

Darkisland said...

Blogger doctrev said...

That she thinks people are dumb enough to believe that a multi-billionaire could

Except that he was not a multi-billionaire. He was not even a thousandaire at the time. At that time he was bankrupt and about a billion dollars in dept.

He was a washed-up has-been that nobody ever expected to hear much about again.

Her net worth, even if it was just change in tghe bottom of her purse, was many multiples of Trump's.

John Henry

tim maguire said...

The existence of the dress may be the reason why she refuses to call it rape or report it to the police. Unless and until she does those things, she can refuse to have the dress tested. Once an actual accusation is out there, she can't.

William said...

John Conyers during his long career in Congress was quite the rogue. I wonder if any investigative journalist is delving into his background, asking how his crude passes affected the lives of the women on his staff. It would be an interesting and edifying story. How did he get away with it for decades? Silence is consent. Who else knew about his rogue ways? Great story. Can't wait to see the book. Maybe some of the women he marauded with will appear on Anderson Cooper's show to tell their harrowing stories.

Darkisland said...


Blogger Mike Sylwester said...

I think she was a call girl who serviced rich playboys like Donald Trump. Those were the circumstances of this incident, which I think did happen. [emph added]

Jeez, Mike, you are usually a fairly level headed person.

On what basis do you think it happened? So far, all you have is her statement 25 years after the fact. Do you even know if Trump was in NYC that day?

On what basis do you make that statement, Mike? It is pretty shameful.

John Henry

tim maguire said...

Darkisland said...Her net worth, even if it was just change in tghe bottom of her purse, was many multiples of Trump's.

Well...yes and no. Technically, he had negative a billion dollars, making him one of the poorest people on earth. However, if Trump having a net worth of negative one billion dollars and I, who has a net worth of +/- $600K (mostly equity in my house) walk into a bank and ask to borrow 100 million, which of us do you think will get the money?

If Trump and I walk into a real estate office and pitch a 250 million dollar land deal, which of us do you think they'll sign with?

I may momentarily have more cash on hand than him, but he is still operating on an entirely different financial plane than I am.

gilbar said...

John Conyers is a democrat, so your question makes no sense. Single Standard, you know

gilbar said...

technically, he had negative a billion dollars, making him one of the poorest people on earth

I believe the saying is:
if you owe the bank a million dollars, you've got a problem
if you owe the bank a Billion dollars, the Bank has a problem

narciso said...

She was an advice columnist in Esquire in the 90s, what her side job is unclear we know that New York magazine is inconsistent to the extreme.

Darkisland said...

The Story of O by Pauline Reage

The Beauty trilogy by Ann Rice

Fifty Shades of grey and sequels by some other woman

All are very explicit, violent, deep rape/domination/BDSM/bondage/whipping/branding fantasy novels. Written by women, for women. Don't know about 50 shades but in O and the Beauty books much of the domination of women is carried out by other women, at the behest of men.

Yeah, guys read them too but the real market is women. Any of the ladies here want to take a shot at explaining why this kind of porn is so popular with women?

When the shithead told Cooper that women think rape is sexy, she was not saying anything that that is untrue. Not all women of course. Not even most women, probably. But a hell of a lot of women do seem to harbor rape fantasies.

Then there is the whole NXIVM thing we were talking about last week.

John Henry

William said...

It's the stories that don't get told that mark the bias of the press. How did the other girls in the office pool react when they heard of Kopechne's death. Did any of them blame Ted Kennedy or rethink their allegiance towards that man? If not, why not?.....How about Jussie Smollett's fellow cast members on Empire? Why have none of them come forward with any comments about his stunt?......Sadly, I don't have any idea how much lingerie costs at Bergdorf Goodman, but my guess is that the price is so prohibitive that not even a billionaire could afford to ruin the garment by putting it on over his suit. Her story doesn't make sense. How come no one from Bergdorf has come forward to defend the sanctity of their dressing rooms?

Darkisland said...

Blogger Darkisland said...

On what basis do you make that statement, Mike? It is pretty shameful.

"Shameful" may not be the right word here.

"Despicable" is probably more appropriate.


John Henry


narciso said...

You notice how quickly they buried that story, apparently one of the ringleaders the gortari kid is in Cuba, probably drinking mojitos with John McAfee

Michael K said...

Yeah, guys read them too but the real market is women. Any of the ladies here want to take a shot at explaining why this kind of porn is so popular with women?

Then other interesting thing is that women prefer reading porn and not seeing it in videos. I expect that it is so they can imagine the male or female, as the case may be,.

Birches said...

People are already writing columns saying, whether or not Carroll's allegations are true, it reflects the truth for many women. Yep, she just wrote a fake, but accurate book.

Michael K said...

PDJT should sue the woman.

He has much more important things to do. He has other people to swat flies for him.

That was probably Michael Cohen's job, He was probably in charge of fly swatting.

Darkisland said...

Blogger Dave Begley said...

I first thought that this woman was way too late to the show. And then I caught a bit of Steven Colbert last night. He said she was about the 20th woman (I can't recall the exact number) who has made allegations against Trump. He then make a joking analogy that all of these women can't be wrong. Fair point. And that's why many female voters hate Trump and will never vote for him.

I heard Scott Adams or Tim Poole (or someone else) discussing this kind of logic yesterday.

So, if we are going to think this way, perhaps Hilary and Bill are not responsible for the deaths of ALL 100 or so people on the Clinton death list.

But they must be responsible for some of them, right?

And what did Hilary's brother die of? Perhaps the cause of death was his involvement with Haitian gold mining shenanigans and someone getting too close to the truth about who else was involved. (Like the Secretary of State)

It is bullshit logic, David. I am pretty sure you realize it.

John Henry

Krumhorn said...

I want to hear Trump plundering stories. Raping is so over.

Between this line and the “if you can’t change your mind in a changing room” comment, rhhardin was en feu in this thread.

Her book comes out in a week. All this is just a coincidence, of course, but Les Moonves and Trump were so overpowered by her allure at the age of 50+ that they each sexually assaulted her in a public place.

BTW, I’m damned if I understand some of the hateful shit folks post about our hostess.

- Krumhorn

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

isnt that how the Twilight Zone episodes started?

"Imagine, if you will... that she is telling the truth..."

-Is she projecting when she says "people think rape is sexy"?'
-Was/is she into "consensual rape", knowing you can always argue the consensual' aspect later?
-Would Occam's Razor say she's batshit crazy, and leave no stubble?

Lurker21 said...

I can believe that Donald Trump pursued women in ways that were questionable or even troubling or disturbing, but I don't believe that this incident happened in this way with this woman.

Was he really shopping for gifts himself? Rich executives have people to do that for them. He might go shopping himself if the recipient was somebody special, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Was the store really that empty and unmonitored by sales personnel? You'd think management keep an eye on who was going into and out of changing rooms. And gossips might notice a famous millionaire going into the changing room with a woman not his wife.

Would he really greet her as "the famous advice columnist"? Would he really be that familiar with Elle magazine and its contents? She did have a cable show, but who watched it? Would Trump have watched it? She and Trump had also met, but she says they didn't know each other at all well. If that's the case, would he really be familiar with her job?

Would she really have given up sex after such an encounter with Donald Trump? Going into a changing room with a man suggests that she was quite frisky at the time. She also claims that she'd been mistreated by several men over the years. Why would this one incident with Trump have been so traumatic after worse things had happened to her in the past without putting her off sex?

She seems to want to have things both ways - it was horrible, but it was just the sort of thing that happens. Does an incident that she feels so conflicted about about really explain two decades of (presumably involuntary) celibacy? I know a lot of women are conflicted about rape or attempted rape, but seeing her on television only encourages doubts about her story.

And if it happened, wouldn't she remember the date? She seems to obsessive chronicle every thought and experience she's had, but she can't say when the incident happened? I'm sure other people have other questions and doubts about her story. Insulting the woman, though, doesn't do anything more than produce a reaction in her favor.

Kay said...

Mike Sylwester said...
... asked her to model lingerie that he was looking to purchase ... she willingly went into the department store dressing room with him to undress to the point of being able to put on lingerie while he watched

Seems like there was an understanding that he would pay her for this sexual service.
6/25/19, 9:20 AM


Yup. I know a guy who got his wallet stolen by a sex worker, and the police just laughed in his face when he tried to report it. Lesson learned. Assuming that this woman is lying, it would be wise for the Donald and others to avoid getting caught up these types of situations.

narciso said...

Well let's just say that in Haiti the hougans (the witchdoctors) have been employed as instruments of state, and vengeance is owed.

wwww said...

"I don't understand not calling that rape. That is rape, for sure."

Yeah, we can all see the description is one of first degree rape. Why does she want to call it a "fight" and not a "rape"? She got away from the fight. She pushed him out of her. She stomped him. She pushed him back and got away. He might have banged her up and bashed her head against the wall and stuck it in briefly but she won the fight. She got away. He did not ejaculate. He did not achieve his aim. She won the fight!

If she calls it rape, she needs to see herself as a victim. She refused to see herself as a victim. She denied him that power over her body. She denied him sovereignty. She minimized the penetration to herself. "it was less then 3 minutes" "I have a very happy life."

She denied it to herself and moved on. By refusing to call it rape, she kept control of her mental health and her life.

She would have been blamed. They would have said it was consensual. She would have been asked how she could have been so stupid as to be alone with him in a dressing room. In public, he would have said she was too "old" and not his "type."

But there was a cost. She told herself she was stupid and a coward. She could not touch the dress. She could not get into another relationship with a man. It would be the last time any man touched her.

wwww said...

So now I will tell you what happened:

The moment the dressing-room door is closed, he lunges at me, pushes me against the wall, hitting my head quite badly, and puts his mouth against my lips. I am so shocked I shove him back and start laughing again. He seizes both my arms and pushes me up against the wall a second time, and, as I become aware of how large he is, he holds me against the wall with his shoulder and jams his hand under my coat dress and pulls down my tights.

I am astonished by what I’m about to write: I keep laughing. The next moment, still wearing correct business attire, shirt, tie, suit jacket, overcoat, he opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me. It turns into a colossal struggle. I am wearing a pair of sturdy black patent-leather four-inch Barneys high heels, which puts my height around six-one, and I try to stomp his foot. I try to push him off with my one free hand — for some reason, I keep holding my purse with the other — and I finally get a knee up high enough to push him out and off and I turn, open the door, and run out of the dressing room.

The whole episode lasts no more than three minutes. I do not believe he ejaculates. I don’t remember if any person or attendant is now in the lingerie department. I don’t remember if I run for the elevator or if I take the slow ride down on the escalator. As soon as I land on the main floor, I run through the store and out the door — I don’t recall which door — and find myself outside on Fifth Avenue.

And that was my last hideous man. The Donna Karan coatdress still hangs on the back of my closet door, unworn and unlaundered since that evening. And whether it’s my age, the fact that I haven’t met anyone fascinating enough over the past couple of decades to feel “the sap rising,” as Tom Wolfe put it, or if it’s the blot of the real-estate tycoon, I can’t say. But I have never had sex with anybody ever again.

narciso said...

Trying to take this at face value:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/06/e_jean_carroll_loses_more_credibility__and_cnn_tries_to_cover_it_up_twice.html

AllenS said...

So, the rape occurred in department store dressing room? I've been in a few department store dressing rooms, and there are always employees not very far away. A simple "help" yell would have stopped the rape in the attempt stage. Give me a break.

wwww said...

Early one evening, as I am about to go out Bergdorf’s revolving door on 58th Street, and one of New York’s most famous men comes in the revolving door, or it could have been a regular door at that time, I can’t recall, and he says: “Hey, you’re that advice lady!”

And I say to No. 20 on the Most Hideous Men of My Life List: “Hey, you’re that real-estate tycoon!”

I am surprised at how good-looking he is. We’ve met once before, and perhaps it is the dusky light but he looks prettier than ever. This has to be in the fall of 1995 or the spring of 1996 because he’s garbed in a faultless topcoat and I’m wearing my black wool Donna Karan coatdress and high heels but not a coat.

“Come advise me,” says the man. “I gotta buy a present.”

“Oh!” I say, charmed. “For whom?”

“A girl,” he says.

“Don’t the assistants of your secretaries buy things like that?” I say.

“Not this one,” he says. Or perhaps he says, “Not this time.” I can’t recall. He is a big talker, and from the instant we collide, he yammers about himself like he’s Alexander the Great ready to loot Babylon.

As we are standing just inside the door, I point to the handbags. “How about—”

“No!” he says, making the face where he pulls up both lips like he’s balancing a spoon under his nose, and begins talking about how he once thought about buying Bergdorf ’s.

“Or … a hat!” I say enthusiastically, walking toward the handbags, which, at the period I’m telling you about — and Bergdorf’s has been redone two or three times since then — are mixed in with, and displayed next to, the hats. “She’ll love a hat! You can’t go wrong with a hat!”

I don’t remember what he says, but he comes striding along — greeting a Bergdorf sales attendant like he owns the joint and permitting a shopper to gape in awe at him — and goes right for a fur number.

“Please,” I say. “No woman would wear a dead animal on her head!”

What he replies I don’t recall, but I remember he coddles the fur hat like it’s a baby otter.

“How old is the lady in question?” I ask.

“How old are you?” replies the man, fondling the hat and looking at me like Louis Leakey carbon-dating a thighbone he’s found in Olduvai Gorge.

“I’m 52,” I tell him.

“You’re so old!” he says, laughing — he was around 50 himself — and it’s at about this point that he drops the hat, looks in the direction of the escalator, and says, “Lingerie!” Or he may have said “Underwear!” So we stroll to the escalator. I don’t remember anybody else greeting him or galloping up to talk to him, which indicates how very few people are in the store at the time.

wwww said...

There are several facts about what happens next that are so odd I want to clear them up before I go any further:

Did I report it to the police?

No.

Did I tell anyone about it?

Yes. I told two close friends. The first, a journalist, magazine writer, correspondent on the TV morning shows, author of many books, etc., begged me to go to the police.

“He raped you,” she kept repeating when I called her. “He raped you. Go to the police! I’ll go with you. We’ll go together.”

My second friend is also a journalist, a New York anchorwoman. She grew very quiet when I told her, then she grasped both my hands in her own and said, “Tell no one. Forget it! He has 200 lawyers. He’ll bury you.” (Two decades later, both still remember the incident clearly and confirmed their accounts to New York.)

Do I have photos or any visual evidence?

Bergdorf’s security cameras must have picked us up at the 58th Street entrance of the store. We would have been filmed on the ground floor in the bags-and-hats sections. Cameras also must have captured us going up the escalator and into the lingerie department. New York law at the time did not explicitly prohibit security cameras in dressing rooms to “prevent theft.” But even if it had been captured on tape, depending on the position of the camera, it would be very difficult to see the man unzipping his pants, because he was wearing a topcoat. The struggle might simply have read as “sexy.” The speculation is moot, anyway: The department store has confirmed that it no longer has tapes from that time.

Why were there no sales attendants in the lingerie department?

Bergdorf Goodman’s perfections are so well known — it is a store so noble, so clubby, so posh — that it is almost easier to accept the fact that I was attacked than the fact that, for a very brief period, there was no sales attendant in the lingerie department. Inconceivable is the word. Sometimes a person won’t find a sales attendant in Saks, it’s true; sometimes one has to look for a sales associate in Barneys, Bloomingdale’s, or even Tiffany’s; but 99 percent of the time, you will have an attendant in Bergdorf’s. All I can say is I did not, in this fleeting episode, see an attendant. And the other odd thing is that a dressing-room door was open. In Bergdorf’s dressing rooms, doors are usually locked until a client wants to try something on.

Why haven’t I “come forward” before now?

Receiving death threats, being driven from my home, being dismissed, being dragged through the mud, and joining the 15 women who’ve come forward with credible stories about how the man grabbed, badgered, belittled, mauled, molested, and assaulted them, only to see the man turn it around, deny, threaten, and attack them, never sounded like much fun. Also, I am a coward.

JackWayne said...

Althouse, you should be ashamed of yourself.

RigelDog said...

On CNN she said rape isn't about violence it's about sex.
She's not very "woke" is she? >>>

She has a point. Rape happens on a continuum of use of coercion and/or force to obtain some kind of sexual gratification. I think that the underlying motivation is often simply to get sex; the point of the violence or coercion is to apply however much force is needed to get the sex. In this dressing room scenario (I don't credit it) Trump would have wanted the quickie rush of sex and would have applied zero force if the woman been enthusiastically consenting. Further down the continuum of forced sex are attacks where the use of power and violence are an end in an of themselves. And it's all "rape-rape," I'm not discounting that.

Tina Trent said...

When you experience a real rape, you don't forget the date. You don't use it as an excuse to remodel your house. And you don't play politics with it.

These women aren't just pimping rape : they're pimping trauma. Pretty awful.

wwww said...


She told 2 people, who are known to journalists. At the time. Years and years before Trump ran for President. The journalists will know these 2 sources.

iowan2 said...

"for the sake of discusion"

NO. No discussion. 30 years ago. A smear that does not warrant any attention.

People have to have some core values when confronted by something like this.

Mine inform me that allegations past much more than a year, have not earned consideration, unless evidence and unique situational circumstances accompany.

President Trump has zero history of mistreating women. Zero. Evidence.

To play the game of "what if", accomplishes exactly what the left wants. Separate President Trump from his voters.

Rick.T. said...

I am fairly certain in the MSNBC interview she claimed that: there "happened' to be no sales personnel on the floor at the time and one of the dressing rooms "happened" to be unlocked.

Not an oldster. said...

Wwww,
It sounds like "Sex in the City" turned shitty. Ms. Carroll was a Jewish-American young woman collecting sexual adventure stories who did not understand men or sex, and who admittedly acted stupid playing games that her sex partner misconstrued.

By not reporting her alleged rape, the lady in her 50s put other women at risk. Report or don't make money off your stories of assault.

wwww said...

"I think that the underlying motivation is often simply to get sex; the point of the violence or coercion is to apply however much force is needed to get the sex."

Yeah but this doesn't explain why a young man chooses to rape a elderly, disabled woman? Is that just about sex? Why would a soldier, during the occupation of a city, rape whoever is in the house -- children, old women? Vengeance, right? Power, sure sex but sex as vengeance and power. What's he getting "off" on? The power and vengeance. The ability to assert power over someone else.

It's the same reason a serial killer kills. What's he getting off on? The power, the dominance, the ability to what he wants, when he wants, however he wants. Total control. The other person is insignificant to the criminal.

Michael K said...

I see that 4w is going full Kathy Griffin on this story. Never go full Kathy Griffin.

Krumhorn said...

Women lie. All the time. When Althouse tries to imagine some way this woman is nor lying, she is herself lying, to us perhaps, or to herself more likely.

Why would she waste a minute analyzing this with the assumption that the statement is false? Under that circumstance, it analyzes itself. She did the hard thing by reviewing the claims as true for the sake of the argument. How can any regular reader of this blog fail to grasp that this is her essential gift? Why must she be lying to do this work?

- Krumhorn

Skippy Tisdale said...

Pure. Bullshit.

Why didn't she come forward with this in 2016? Oh I get it. She thought Hillary was going to win.

I don't like Trump, but fuck these lying assholes.

wwww said...

"Why didn't she come forward with this in 2016?"

She told you already.

Why haven’t I “come forward” before now?

Receiving death threats, being driven from my home, being dismissed, being dragged through the mud, and joining the 15 women who’ve come forward with credible stories about how the man grabbed, badgered, belittled, mauled, molested, and assaulted them, only to see the man turn it around, deny, threaten, and attack them, never sounded like much fun. Also, I am a coward.

Yancey Ward said...

This woman is clearly a fucking lunatic- just watch the damned CNN interview. I don't know who is using her, but they should ask Trump to declare their work as a campaign expense- they are actually helping get him reelected.

Mike Sylwester said...

John Henry at 10:39 AM
Jeez, Mike, ... On what basis do you think it happened? ... On what basis do you make that statement, Mike? It is pretty shameful.

I don't have a convincing argument.

This just seems to be some fantasy play that a much younger Trump might have paid some money to do.

I have read her advice column in Elle many times, and so I perceive her to be a rather sensible person.

Her story does not affect my intention to vote for Trump again in 2020.

Achilles said...

wwww said...

She told 2 people, who are known to journalists. At the time. Years and years before Trump ran for President. The journalists will know these 2 sources.

This is the object lesson. This story is an obvious fake.

But pieces of shit like wwww run with it.

Because politics.

Leftists are every day just proving themselves to be terrible people.

Drago said...

wwwe: "She told 2 people, who are known to journalists."

No she didnt. She coordinated her stories with 2 amigos in the lead up to the book release.

I think wwww and the rest of the rape hoax collusionists have not yet internalized the reality that their pathetic and transparent lies are obvious to everyone and carry no weight beyond the far left/LLR-left.

Doug said...

I just think of all the innocent women who are going to suffer the consequences for the actions of ditzy ho-bags like this specimen.

Mike Sylwester said...

In my previous comment, I mentioned that I have read her advice page in Elle many times.

She is a sexual adventurer.

She writes that having affairs is often a worthwhile activity for women.

Achilles said...

Christine Blasey Ford did the exact same thing to Brett Kavanaugh.

And leftist pieces of shit ran with that one too.

wwww said...

PDJT should sue the woman.

Yeah but she has a unlaundered dress and 2 contemporary witnesses who are likely well known to the audience and media. Suing means she could get a DNA sample from him.

Achilles said...

wwww said...
PDJT should sue the woman.

Yeah but she has a unlaundered dress and 2 contemporary witnesses who are likely well known to the audience and media. Suing means she could get a DNA sample from him.


What you people are trying to do is indefensible.

Drago said...

wwww: "Yeah but she has a unlaundered dress and 2 contemporary witnesses who are likely well known to the audience and media."

LOLOLOLOL

Hillary lost.

Stop lying and get over it.

Achilles said...

Poor Anderson Cooper had to cut his interview short.

Not even a hack like Cooper could keep a straight face and he had to cut the interview.

But CNN put the obvious liar on TV so evil people would run with the story.

Nobody is stupid enough to believe her.

Drago said...

Face it wwww, you morons blew it with your idiotic and literally insane claims against Kavanaugh.

Its never going to work again.

Not an oldster. said...

Wwww,
Rape is also about a hard aroused penis in pursuit of a tight place. Larry McMurtry wrote about desert dwellers fucking a hole in the ground. An old pussy, a young pussy, an asshole... Physical friction.


It is nice to think rape is not about sex but power, but that idea works better on paper.

wwww said...

Drago,

wwww: "Yeah but she has a unlaundered dress and 2 contemporary witnesses who are likely well known to the audience and media."

Trump could sue for defamation. He will not. It's part of the public record now.

narciso said...

Well they had avenatti on more times than the missing Malaysian plane.

Drago said...

Whats most evil about what wwww and Inga and LLR Chuck do is their simultaneous disbelief of and vicious attacks against real victims of sexual assault by democrats.

Drago said...

wwww: "Trump could sue for defamation. He will not. It's part of the public record now."

LOL

Everyone is on to your lying games so there is no need for Trump to sue your latest lunatic lefty liar.

Perhaps you'll have better luck with your next battery of smears....but I doubt it.

Achilles said...

Meanwhile democrat activist Bonette Kymbrelle Meeks executes police officer in St. Louis.

Democrats everywhere silently applaud and bury the story.

We all know why.

wwww said...

"It is nice to think rape is not about sex but power, but that idea works better on paper."

Rape is about using sex to achieve power. The end goal is power and dominance. It's the cock as a weapon. During wartime, some men use rape to show dominance and break the enemy.

The great majority of men are not rapists. A very few men are rapists. The problem is, a few rapists rape a lot of people. 'Cause that's what they do. They're rapists and they get off on the power rush. Some of them do it when opportunity arises. Some of them are more active predators and break into homes. Other threads have talked about how birth control is "perfect." It's not "perfect" against rapists. Some rapists get off on the idea of impregnation.

All of this is very dark. This kind of evil exists in a small minority of men. But most rapists are serial offenders. A few of them perpetrate the crime on a lot of people.

Char Char Binks said...

She stopped short of calling it rape, so I stopped short of giving a shit.

Drago said...

wwww: " This kind of evil exists in a small minority of men."

Thats not the case in muslim communities.

cacimbo said...

That Carroll admits to laughing through the entire episode rather than yelling stop or even saying no - is a big problem for her rape claim.

What I always found amazing about Clinton's affair with Lewinsky was his lack of self control. Knowing that he was being sued by Jones and investigated as a result - he still did not have the self control to stop. Media tell us Trump has no self control and bombard us with tales of his alleged rapes/sexual abuses. So has Trump suddenly stopped his lifelong habit of sex outside marriage. I hope he has found some self control in his senior years and learned from Clinton's error. These decades old tales will not hurt him, an allegation after he took office would.

Francisco D said...

Check out her interview with Alison Camerota.

I suspect that this woman had a stroke and is both cognitively and psychiatrically impaired.

Not an oldster. said...

Girls just wanna have fun
Oh girls, they wanna have fun.
Girls just wanna have fun.

Are we having fun yet, girls?

Drago said...

cacimbo: "What I always found amazing about Clinton's affair with Lewinsky was his lack of self control. Knowing that he was being sued by Jones and investigated as a result - he still did not have the self control to stop."

Clinton understood perfectly well he would always have an army of LLR's and wwww's and media types who would stand strongly behind him so he was fully empowered to behave as recklessly as he wanted to.

And Billy boy was proven quite correct in that regard even to this very day.

Achilles said...

The Only people democrats extend due process to are illegal aliens."

bleh said...

I love it when certain people simply proclaim, with absolute confidence, about the urges and motivations that lead rapists to commit rape. "It's not about sex, it's about power," etc. Can't it be about both? I imagine at least some rapists are motivated by the desire to ejaculate. They just don't care about the other person's consent.

A robber or burglar is motivated by a desire to steal your property. Most probably aren't doing it just because they can, to exert power over you.

Not an oldster. said...

During wartime, some men are pumped hard as hell and need sexual release. They can jack off, or find a warm tight enough flesh grasp. An old woman, or child, in the house is A temptation to evil men.

It is not a power move, to get the conquered to acknowledge their power. It is over when the current sexual release occurs. Rapists inder some circumstances don't rape under others.


You read a lot wwww but you don't have all the answers. Sex is real, not just a subject. Don't defend silence, cowards, or "fun", ok? Carroll is sick.

PM said...

He said/she shed.

Michael K said...

During wartime, some men use rape to show dominance and break the enemy.

Written by someone who knows nothing about war. Rape was the reward for the surviving soldiers after they had won the battle.

It was always a problem if undisciplined soldiers stopped to rape or loot before the battle was won. There are many stories of battles lost just for this reason.

Mary H said...

AMAZING find: There is video from an episode of Law & Order SVU in which a man recounts a woman's fantasy of being raped in a dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman.
It's on twitter, below:

thebradfordfile™@thebradfordfile
2h2 hours ago

Dear @CNN:

I saw your interview of E. Jean Carroll. Her story sounds a lot like an episode of Special Victims Unit—Episode 11, Season 13

Discussion of a rape fantasy in the dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman's.

At 42:15...

Harold said...

She told 2 people, who are known to journalists. At the time. Years and years before Trump ran for President. The journalists will know these 2 sources.

Even if she told two people at the time, it means nothing. Women lie about having sex with celebrities all the time.

They lie about having sex with average guys all the time.

Claiming to have an encounter with a famous person or a popular guy in school is a way of boasting how desirable you are.

Guys do it do, claiming to have had sex with a date when it never happened. I imagine thousands of men claim to have had sex with porn stars or actresses when in high school, and thousands of women do the same.

traditionalguy said...

She was not enough of a trophy to attract The Donald even changing into lingerie for a stranger in a changing room. He has standards.

KheSanh 0802 said...

Does the story sound like a fantasy? A rich guy is wandering around Bergdorf's lingerie department ( which those in the know say hardly existed at the time and was on a different floor) and asks a complete stranger to model some lingerie for him ( oh yea I am buying that proposition) and she (the dumb cluck) agrees. Then the horny old guy accompanies the ditz and the Bergdorf employee - who has to unlock the door- ( the employee, of course, sees nothing strange here) to the dressing room where the employee, who presumably is keeping track of the merchandise to a degree, but is otherwise uncurious and unobservant is told to shoo. ( does that happen a lot in places like Bergdorf's, Saks; maybe at Brooks Brothers.) Then the guy crowds into the dressing room and proceeds to ravage the ditz ( who apparently is not sure what happened). Incidentally, how large are these dressing rooms? Is this like joining the "mile high club"? Anyway the ditz is so taken aback that she does nothing, says nothing other than asking the guy if he's going to buy the sexy outfit. Oh yes, she tells her two friends who, fearing subpoenas now, ain't talking. 25 years later she decides to let the world know about this dramatic experience that happened in 1995 or 1996, in the summer or the winter or maybe the spring. Then she, like Christine, walked home. Try as I might I can't buy it.

Gospace said...

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...
"Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape>"

No. She's one of those people who tell ridiculous lies.


I was all set to type the same thing, then I saw this, so I copied and pasted it. Summary- She's a lying liar who's lying.

Ken B said...

You do not understand not calling it rape. If he story were true it would clearly be rape and anyone would call it so. But what if her story is false and she is making up details? Then her refusal to call it rape makes perfect sense: it is a way to avoid scrutiny, to claim she has no obligation to answer tough questions.

chuck said...

> Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape?

Yeah, yeah, let's consider that... OK, she's an alien escaped from the men in black. Think about it, it could be true.

YoungHegelian said...

I would give Ms Carroll's accusation of rape against Trump more weight if she wasn't

1) an author with a book to sell
2) relating a tale of a sexual act that seems to be a perfect example of Erica Jong's famed "Zipless Fuck".

This isn't truth. This is porno for women. She admits as much herself, discussing how sexy the fantasy of "coerced" sex is for women. As an empirical statement, she is correct. Coerced sex is one of the most common female sexual fantasy.

wwww said...

It is not a power move, to get the conquered to acknowledge their power.

Of course it's both! It's obvious it's both. It's both at the same time. It's not one or the other. But the situation turns them on. Serial killers get off on killing. Rapists get off on the rape aspect of it all.

Of course. Of course. Is it not obvious it's both? Sex and power. The rapist gets off on the sex and the power and the dominance.Dominance and submission. Exerting their will. The rapist gets off on it sexually. Extreme dominance. Exerting sexual power. Of course they find sexual pleasure in it. That's the point.

These are not emphatic, kind people. These are sadists. They're twisted and evil because they don't care if they hurt someone else. Some just want what they want: the sex and submission. They will take what they want when they want and they don't care if the other person gets hurt or says no. Some are sadists and get off on the physical pain.

This is a dark subject.

Birches said...

Did not think that L&O episode would actually be close to the Trump situation. It's not exact, but way more than I expected. The lady is loony enough to lift her book from a SVU episode. I wonder if people can find other sources of inspiration from other episodes.

walter said...

In an email, Ms. Carroll had asked that I bring along a photo of someone I hate. “We’ll be doing a little target practice,” she said mischievously. Reading the sign in her yard—“Beware,” it says, “proselytizers will be shot by archers”—it felt appropriate that I’d printed out a picture of Fox News’ blustery resident demagogue.“I hate Bill O’Reilly!” Ms. Carroll said with glee when I handed her the photo.
<
When I visited, a marked-up copy of Don Quixote, which she was re-reading, sat on the kitchen table, and Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, which she likes to mention in her column, was resting next to her computer. I asked her why she refers to it so often. “Many of my correspondents are women,” Ms. Carroll said, “and they really have to learn to fight. Life is a battle, right?”

Ms. Carroll has been divorced twice, but she has no regrets about her past relationships. She says she’s simply not meant for marriage. “You’re on this earth to have as many chaps as you want,” Ms. Carroll told me.

https://observer.com/2015/09/a-walk-in-the-woods-with-e-jean-carroll/

Dunno. Doesn't sound like a gal who eschewed sex post alleged incident..which she claims. She also says she doesn't want to pursue legalities because migrants are rape raped...and because she's long since over it.
In short, what FIDO said.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Trump probably had lots of sex during a certain time period circa many decades ago. Right? or who knows? Do we really know? We don't know. Mostly, we don't care. Why? After being beaten down by the leftwing media on how Bill Clinton - 'it's just sex and it is none of your business' - [even INSIDE the Oval Office!], it's difficult to care.
Now, all of that consensual sex is "rape" because Hillary lost.

Got it?

R.J. Chatt said...

"Assuming she's telling the truth..." "There are so many accusations some of it must be true..."

Personally, having been the target of smear campaigns of complete and total lies, I know how wrong that "believing" approach is. The accused suffers greatly while the liar and false witnesses go unscathed. It's disgusting.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Drago: Whats most evil about what wwww and...

4dub isn't evil, she's batty. Appears to be in one of her manic babbling phases right now. Probably culminate in another one of her epic meltdowns.

walter said...

Did she write dialog for the Pee tape too?

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

e Jean is not my victim
She's just a girl who claims that I am the one


n.n said...

Coerced sex is one of the most common female sexual fantasy.

For what population?

Michael K said...

The SVU incident seems to be the answer. The Blasey Fiord thing was probably a use of the incident where she and her mother went to the cops about a different son of a prominent politician at the time. She just used that story to concoct a slur on Kavanaugh.

Fiction. Lewinski was not because she had the dress with Bill's DNA.

walter said...

Women's rape fantasies: an empirical evaluation of the major explanations.

Bivona JM, Critelli JW, Clark MJ.

Arch Sex Behav. 2012 Oct;41(5):1107-19. doi: 10.1007/s10508-012-9934-6. Epub 2012 Apr 28.

PMID:
22544306

Similar articles
Select item 19085605
2.

The nature of women's rape fantasies: an analysis of prevalence, frequency, and contents.

Bivona J, Critelli J.

J Sex Res. 2009 Jan-Feb;46(1):33-45. doi: 10.1080/00224490802624406.

PMID:
19085605

Similar articles
Select item 18321031
3.

Women's erotic rape fantasies: an evaluation of theory and research.

Critelli JW, Bivona JM.

J Sex Res. 2008 Jan-Mar;45(1):57-70. doi: 10.1080/00224490701808191. Review.

PMID:
18321031

Darrell said...

"I think most people think of rape as being sexy -- think of the fantasies,"

--E. Jean Carroll to Anderson Cooper (CNN) Monday night.

Jim at said...

I cannot believe you're buying into this crap. Again.

The bullshit about Roy Moore wasn't enough. The bullshit about Bret Kavanaugh wasn't enough.

How much more will it take?

bagoh20 said...

"Is she one of those people who think when you get yourself into the circumstance of being in a private space with someone you know is thinking about you sexually, it's not real rape"

I think she may be one of those people who think you can accuse a man of rape for politics or profit and get away with it. She would be one of thousands who have done so just recently, so the cost/benefit equation is pretty strong motivation and pretty damning to the credibility of her story.

If she was in fact raped, then she becomes one of the thousands who suffer lost credibility becuase of the thousands of liars so often coddled and rewarded, and later found to be disgusting destroyers of lives. Considering the damage done by such people to rape victims and the falsely accused, such criminal lies should be near the top of horrible crimes a person can commit and bring punishment worthy of all that damage to so many innocent victims. Instead, it's usually treated more like shoplifting.

Last I read the number of women making sexual assault accusations against Judge Kavanaugh was up to 1600. Most likely all lying with some benefiting financially or otherwise, and all at zero cost to them - not even much coverage, let alone criticism. Each one is a serious crime that hurts women victims most. You get the impression that attacking men, even innocent men, is worth it.

bagoh20 said...

""I think most people think of rape as being sexy -- think of the fantasies,"

--E. Jean Carroll to Anderson Cooper (CNN) Monday night."


The story does not sound sexy at all. It sounds like what a woman would imagine an aggressive man might find sexy, but it's not. I imagine it may be to some women, and possibly Carroll.

stlcdr said...

She describes a 'rape' but doesn't call it 'rape', but we are to believe and accept that it was 'rape'. But don't use the word 'rape' because this is different from the 'real rape'.

This is getting ridiculous. It's at the point where these age old accusations are automatically disbelieved.

n.n said...

The bullshit about Roy Moore wasn't enough. The bullshit about Bret Kavanaugh wasn't enough.

It does offer an unprecedented opportunity to garner insight into the mind of the individual or the ideological bent of witch hunters and warlock judges.

n.n said...

This is getting ridiculous. It's at the point where these age old accusations are automatically disbelieved.

While it is reasonable and rational to establish a statute of limitations, the progress of both faith and afaith are a problem. Democrats jumped the Ass, and what leverage, at the expense of these women, did they gain? The women get FUCT, then Planned.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

If you watch the Anderson Cooper and (older) Charlie Rose interviews this person pretty clearly comes across as a kook-as a crazy person. Crazy people can be victims of rape.

The occasion that prompted this reveal is the publication of a book--this person has a book to promote and is clearly interested in garnering as much publicity for herself as possible. People seeking maximum publicity can be victims of rape.

What we're left with, though, is an accusation of a violent rape that allegedly occurred more than two decades ago and was never, until now, made publicly. How are we to judge the seriousness and likely veracity of the accusation? I'm not sure we can do that without taking into consideration this person's apparent kookiness and pressing desire for publicity.

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