Newsweek headline.
"The video is not enough. We can understand what is being shown, sure, but to make a final assessment, this is not enough for me," [Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko] Maas told reporters during a press conference on Friday. The boat's Japanese owner also cast doubt on the theory that a mine had been used to attack the ship, telling journalists that members of his crew had witnessed a flying object.
Iran has denied any role in the event, and some observers have raised questions about whether the intelligence was being used as a pretext for the U.S. to escalate conflict with the country.
"Whether it's an attempt to remove Venezuela's democratic government or regime change in Iran, the USA is causing global instability in furtherance of its imperial interests. We must reject the lies being used by the Trump admin to gain public support for their disastrous plans," Chris Williamson, a member of the British parliament with the UK's Labour Party, said in a statement.
The Conservative-led government in the UK, however, released an official statement saying that it is "almost certain" that Iran's military carried out the attack.
A second U.S. ally, France, was less committal. While the French Foreign Ministry condemned the attack, it refrained from saying whether its government had assessed the U.S. intelligence or any other evidence.
Meanwhile, in the NYT, there's this from their conservative columnist Bret Stephens:
"The Pirates of Tehran/If Iran won’t change its behavior, we should sink its navy."
In this case... the evidence against Iran is compelling. CentCom’s account notes that “a U.S. aircraft observed an IRGC Hendijan class patrol boat and multiple IRGC fast attack craft/fast inshore attack craft (FAC/FIAC) in the vicinity of the M/T Altair,” one of the damaged tankers. The Iranian boats are familiar to the U.S. Navy after decades of observing them at close range. And staging deniable attacks that fall just below the threshold of open warfare on the U.S. is an Iranian specialty.
Trump might be a liar, but the U.S. military isn’t. There are lingering questions about the types of munitions that hit the ships, and time should be given for a thorough investigation. But it would require a large dose of self-deception (or conspiracy theorizing) to pretend that Iran isn’t the likely culprit, or that its actions don’t represent a major escalation in the region....
Nobody wants a war with Iran. But not wanting a war does not mean remaining supine in the face of its outrages. We sank Iran’s navy before. Tehran should be put on notice that we are prepared and able to do it again.
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120 comments:
The Klingons did it!
The last time Bret Stephens was all gung-ho for the US to fight a war, it turned out badly. Just sayin'.
I'm not a big fan of any more wars, either.
But as always the other side gets a veto.
Those tankers aren't spontaneously combusting.
But like Hillary Clinton, the Iranians probably also used cutouts.
Check Perkins Coie billing records.
Where has Glenn Simpson been over the last week?
Wait and see what Iran claims the limpet-removing boat was doing, Scott Adams says. If they don't mention it, they're guilty. If they do mention it, several things have to be explained (no uniforms, no flag, no fear of the remote-trigger mine exploding, yet a large military boat).
Plenty of evidence not in yet.
Look at the boat removing the dud limpit mine. Those guys sure look like mullahs to me, turbans and all.
It looks like we have 2 choices.
We can either elect an establishment approved presidential candidate, or we get a 4 year worldwide temper tantrum.
The chorus needed a falsetto.
conservative columnist Bret Stephens
You forgot the quotation marks around the word conservative.
The optics on this are interesting. Our media and it's allies like to pretend Trump is an irresponsible dove when it comes to North Korea and Russia. But if any bad word is said about Iran, he's a warmonger and WWIII is imminent.
Has our media ever explained why we should be allies with Iran?
The left and LLR-left rushing to the defense of the Iranians.
The Iranians.
Putins allies.
2019 lefty/LLR-lefty Political Labeling Rules requires me to call these lefties and LLR-lefties Putin Cuckholsters and treasonous traitors.
Birches: "Has our media ever explained why we should be allies with Iran?"
Obama and the Europeans and the LLR-left
adore the Iranians in all their anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Israel/Jews, anti-west glory.
Thats all the reason anyone in the media will ever need.
It is a wonderful sunny morning for humor, even Germany's foreign minister is funny.
Iran has dirt on Elizabeth Warren, which Trump is angling to force out of them with threats.
whether the intelligence was being used as a pretext for the U.S. to escalate conflict with the country.
Gee, why ever would we disbelieve intelligence?
If Iran disclaims responsibility, it surely will not object if the US Navy helps them out by removing any more such foreign hostile entities from their waters, i.e. any such detected within a nautical mile of any tanker in the Gulf.
Trump questions US intelligence: "What a mouth-breathing dolt."
Trump accepts US intelligence: "That warmonger doesn't know what he's talking about!"
"Iran has denied any role in the event"
And we all know how honest Muslims are.
Maas
The attack[s] on the two vessels, one Japanese and one Norwegian
Are Japan and Norway too feeble to take care of themselves?
Remember the Alamo is a battlecry. But Sam Houston waited and remembered to use it when the time was right. And Time is on Trump's side. This little shenanigan just helped Pompeo with the "allies" who all love Iran to honor the embargo. The embargo is squeezes more and more. No need to blow up anything....yet.
richlb summarizes the situation perfectly.
Folks, this is just Merkel being pissy. Again. As usual.
Are Japan and Norway too feeble to take care of themselves?
I suspect the answer is, "Yes. They have outsourced their ship protection to the U.S. Navy."
So, now oil tankers in the area need a military escort? A larger share of the oil market for the U.S.
The other fact is that the US has reaper drones flying over the Gulf and watching. The Iranians shot one down with a missile recently and this one took that video showing them removing the mine. As for swimming in that water, it is filled with poisonous sea snakes. I wouldn't swim in it, either. Plus maybe the Iranians worry about Navy "killer dolphins."
MK 6 uses dolphins and sea lions as sentries to protect harbor installations and ships against unauthorized human swimmers. MK 6 was first operationally deployed with dolphins during the Vietnam War from 1965 to 1975 and in Bahrain from 1986 to 88.[5] When an enemy diver is detected by a dolphin, the dolphin approaches from behind and bumps a device into the back of the enemy's air tank.
Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko Maas's Social Democratic Party of Germany walks into a bar and the bartender says "Heil Hitler!", and the Social Democratic Party says "Nein, nein, das ist für die NSDAP, wir sind nur die SDP. Kein N und kein A! Komplett anders!" and the bartender says "I bet you wish your could get away with acting like real Nazis."
"I suspect the answer is, "Yes. They have outsourced their ship protection to the U.S. Navy.""
I need to start charging for our protection in the area. Enough to recoup expenses.
The entire Iranian Navy consists of about a dozen warships, including a few Soviet-built submarines. We could sink them all by lunchtime.
You lost another submarine, Andre?
Moon of Alabama, which is a credible blog focusing on international events, posts a scenario in which Iran did do the attacks. The theory is that Iran wants to create some deniable heat to force the US to reduce its sanctions. The problem for the Ayatollahs is that if they create too much heat and their deniability is lost, the US will attack. The problem is made even dicier by the fact that Pompeo and Bolton are looking for any excuse, no matter how flimsy, to launch an air assault that would destroy Iran's civilian and military infrastructure.
In any US-Iranian war, Iran will seek to stop oil exports from the Gulf, and they can do so for a time, which might be several months. In order to guarantee the Strait stays open, the US would have to invade and occupy Iran, which is not possible.
Yeah, Norway and Japan seem unconcerned. Let them tell us what happened
They've been targeting tanker going through the bab al Mandel, this attack was in conjunction with the attack on the ABha airport in the kingdom
Germany is led by Merkel who was raised in communist East Germany. That may explain why she has totalitarian tendencies and loves EU mgt style of rule by edict. Her elevation to power shows the danger of voting for 1st generation citizens who tend to hate the existing democratic governments and its rule and laws.
Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, Ilhan Omar, Linda Sarsour, George Soros, Mazie Harono are other examples of 1st generation America haters.
Japanese owner my be pushing a story which enables him to submit a successful claim to his insurance company. I.E. damage from terror attack is probably not covered by his policy but if he can rove it was some other cause, it may be covered.
That's possible, recall they moved the ships into the region because of evidence from an Iranian defector, this is why Dorsey shut diem heshmat.
Maas was recently the interior minister in the rhineland province, he just failed upwards to chancellor
It’s about the Benjamins.
Obama’s people are working against the USA.
Remember the criticism of Trump for relying on foreign sources instead of US government officials? It was treasonous - just last week, I think.
Trump questions US intelligence: "What a mouth-breathing dolt." Trump accepts US intelligence: "That warmonger doesn't know what he's talking about!"
Funny how that works!
Newsflash to Japanese boat owners: Iran has things that fly. They also have things that float. Oftentimes, the two things can be used jointly.
OK, Germany. You tell us who did it.
Who had motive, opportunity, and means?
As another German/Austrian once said (and I paraphrase): just the Rhineland, that is all we want, we promise and double pinky swear"..
Just maybe the Japanese ship owner was denying that Iran was responsible hoping that they would not attack another of his ships. Ride that Tiger.
I'll wait to see if France joins Germany in acting as Iran's country lawyer to explain away its attacks. With American & Israeli surveillance technology we will have more solid proof soon enough. Have world oil prices spiked yet over the attacks? Or has fracking made that obsolete?
Europe needs Iranian oil
Stephens is a never trump neo- conservative.
All self interests.
"Has our media ever explained why we should be allies with Iran?"
Why shouldn't we be? Also, we don't have to be "allies," exactly, but two nations carrying on diplomatic relations for mutual goals.
The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?
Unfortunately, a preview of the west's navel-gazing after a small nuclear weapon goes off without attribution.
The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?
Oh, I don't know Cookie.
It might have something to do with their leaders constantly funding terrorism and chanting, "Death to America." There are probably a few other reasons, but I haven't had enough coffee.
The Europeans, Japanese and Chinese all need that oil more than we do. They're more than capable of handling this. Why should we care more than they do? They're waiting for us to punish the Iranians militarily so they can critize us for doing it.
"The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?"
My question is why do they consider us their enemy?
"Has our media ever explained why we should be allies with Iran?"
Why shouldn't we be? Also, we don't have to be "allies," exactly, but two nations carrying on diplomatic relations for mutual goals.
The question is what’s the mutual goal?
The question is what’s the mutual goal?
If you are a Democrat, the death of America.
Whatever we do will be the wrong thing. It's impossible to interact with any state in the Mideast in a productive or meaningful way. It's like moving into a crack house and posting rules for sharing the fridge.
"It might have something to do with their leaders constantly funding terrorism and chanting, 'Death to America.' There are probably a few other reasons, but I haven't had enough coffee."
Do they chant "Death To America?" This seems at odds with their willingness to broker a deal with the previous administration.
As for "constantly funding terrorism," exactly what and how much terrorism are they funding? I don't say they don't, but do we have quantitative data to show exactly what and how much terrorism they fund?
American, of course, has allied with and even trained many terrorists and killers, military officers who have graduated from the School of the Americas.
And, of course, there is the terrorism and murder for which we are directly responsible, in our various ongoing wars throughout the middle east. In fact, under Bush, we officially became torturers, too. We remain today the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, as we were when Martin Luther King originally made the charge.
Fernandistein said...
Maas
The attack[s] on the two vessels, one Japanese and one Norwegian
Are Japan and Norway too feeble to take care of themselves?
The answer to that is Yes when it comes to maritime projection thousands of miles from their coasts. Noray's navy from wikipedia: "5 heavy frigates, 6 submarines, 14 patrol boats, 4 minesweepers, 4 minehunters, 1 mine detection vessel, 4 support vessels and 2 training vessels.". And remember- they lost a frigate recently when an all female bridge crew on a navifation training mission (of all things) managed to get hit by a freighter. Because the Norwegian equivalent of OOD and CICWO weren't getting along with each other. The Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force is much larger than the Norwegian Navy, but they're pretty much constrained to home waters.
The world's maritime policeman is the U.S. Navy, with occasional assistance from allies.
"My question is why do (Iran) consider us their enemy?"
Don't be obtuse.
The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?
444 days.
"Don't be obtuse."
Bullshit. Our stance is in direct reponse to their provocations.
Gotta go mow the lawn.
If it was not Iran, then who?
Alternative headline: "Germany joins chorus blaming the Jews...again."
Big Mike said...
richlb summarizes the situation perfectly.
Folks, this is just Merkel being pissy. Again. As usual.
This is not pissy. It is calculated. Merkel is on the side of the globalists. The wealthy who want to eliminate borders and nations so they can import cheap labor to a list of countries.
She is islamifying Europe on purpose. Her masters want to import new voter bases and turn everyone in the world into serfs.
This is just part of that conflict. Trump is their mortal enemy and he is leading the forces that represent the middle class all over the world.
Iran has plenty of friends when they need them, so why not do this or any other terrorist plan. They expect these apologists to play their part and they comply willingly. Those defending them are complicit in what they do, which includes a lot of Americans too.
If the proof is unequivocal, they will still be apologizing for them, and blaming us.
Don’t be obtuse.
...Thomas Jefferson once questioned Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Tripolitan ambassador to Britain about the continuing piracy of the United States ships to which he told the future President that it was their duty as good Muslims to take the war to the unbeliever:
Take, for example, the 1786 meeting in London of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Tripolitan ambassador to Britain. As American ambassadors to France and Britain respectively, Jefferson and Adams met with Ambassador Adja to negotiate a peace treaty and protect the United States from the threat of Barbary piracy.
These future United States presidents questioned the ambassador as to why his government was so hostile to the new American republic even though America had done nothing to provoke any such animosity. Ambassador Adja answered them, as they reported to the Continental Congress, "that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
January 4, 2007
Jefferson's Koran
By Thomas Lifson
Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/01/jeffersons_koran.html#ixzz5qw5FPbnQ
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
"Gotta go mow the lawn."
That's incendiary and dangerous talk. It often leads to chemical warfare throughout the yard.
The alt-right, BTW, thinks thus was a false flag attack. Read the comments, as well as thte post.
https://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/06/get-story-straight-guys.html
"That's incendiary and dangerous talk. It often leads to chemical warfare throughout the yard."
Yeah, looks like I've got to break out the chemical weapons.
Bombing the Jewish community center killing the kurdish dissidents in Berlin and Vienna, does that constitute terrorism, why or why noy.
Do they chant "Death To America?" This seems at odds with their willingness to broker a deal with the previous administration.
Well, they do but it isn’t. “Death to the American Middle Class” was obviously the mantra of the Obama administration. Close enough.
Lotta troll feeders here today....
Theres another piece by the esteemed Coptic scholar raymond Ibrahim, where cair forced the army war college to cancel his lecture.
The IRGC was recently designated a terrorist organization. Their attack on the tankers is a form of piracy.
To defend freedom of the seas, the United States should destroy the pirate base.
I think it is a bad idea to invade-invade countries but punitive expeditions are okay. In retrospect, Bush's two wars should have been punitive expeditions.
A big part of Iran's oil is exported from an island in the Gulf. Some military thinkers have pointed out that simply seizing and then defending that island is eminently doable. If the U.S. had to, of course.
Your mantra, too, Cookie, now that I think about it.
Kharg island isnt it, theres a lefty professr at Montclair state, Grover furr whose also a Ukrainian famine defender (what at are the odds)
This guy, is a big defender of the mullahs
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03/the-holodomor-and-the-film-bitter-harvest-are-fascist-lies/
"Bullshit. Our stance is in direct response to their provocations."
Iran can say the same thing...with greater cause.
The Iran Hostage crisis was also a response to US provocation...Carter's having allowed the Shah of Iran--who had fled to Egypt after his government was overturned--to come to the US for medical treatment.
This doesn't justify or excuse the takeover of the US Embassy and the holding of American hostages, but it does explain it and put in in context. It didn't come out of nowhere.
Cook: medical care is a human right.
Also Cook: The Shah of Iran should not have been given medical care.
Nice pretzel you got there.
Thank you, Narciso. Kharg Island. Seize and defend Kharg Island, shoot down the air force, sink the navy and hold the facilities hostage.
Cookie needs to go see “Argo.”
I saw ARGO. It was a Hollywood movie, very entertaining, but not to be mistaken for a documentary of reality.
The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?
Cookie loves him some state-sponsored terrorism, I guess.
"Cook: medical care is a human right.
"Also Cook: The Shah of Iran should not have been given medical care.
"Nice pretzel you got there."
You're making up stuff again, or displaying your incapacity to read for understanding. I did not say Carter shouldn't have allowed the Shah to seek medical care in the US. I merely point out that it was a provocation to the Iranian students, who wanted him turned over to them. I specifically said it did not excuse or justify the holding of the 52 Americans. It simply explains the context, (and partly answers BM's question as to why Iran would see us as an enemy.)
I like pretzels, but I don't have one here.
Apparently Cookie never heard of Hezbollah or Hamas.
So you credit the irrationality of others as to why they count America an enemy?
Gotcha.
And then you suggest Iran is not an enemy of the United States?
Pretzel, bro.
Do you own a concession at Coney Island or something?
alanc709,
Do you mean Hez b'Allah, the Army if God?
The people who believe their God commands them to kill the Little Satan (Israel) and the Great Satan (US of A)?
Those people?
Because I have been assured by Robert Cook that they are not our enemy.
"And then you suggest Iran is not an enemy of the United States?
Pretzel, bro."
Again, you show an incapacity to read for understanding. I didn't suggest they were not; I asked: Why should they be? In short, they are our enemy because this is our stance toward them. Of course, when one treats another as an enemy, that engenders in the other entity a similar perception in response.
When we have shown willingness to conduct diplomatic relations with Iran, they have responded in kind. In regards to the antagonistic relations between the US and Iran, the US has been by far the more consistently bellicose and intractable party.
In short, they are our enemy because this is our stance toward them.
The lesson of WWII: when someone tells you they intend to kill you, believe them.
You can submit at any time, Cookie, I choose not to.
There’s the rub, the conundrum.
Because they get a vote.
I answered your question above.
But, yeah, it's me who won't understand.
Totes magotes.
Timeline: anger at Shah who Cook believe has a right to healthcare, receiving same.
So our stance determined our enemy stairs.
Blameless third world people are blameless.
Therefore, America's fault.
Pretzel King of New York.
Ferris Bueller used you to get a seat at a fancy restaurant.
Thank you, Cookie, for another graduate-level course on diplomacy from Jimmy Carter U.
"The lesson of WWII: when someone tells you they intend to kill you, believe them."
When have they said they intend to kill us?
When did Iran last attack any other country?
If we go to war with Iran, it will not be because we "refuse to submit" (sic), but because we will be the aggressors.
When did they last attack a country?
Iraq these last 15 years.
And some ships owned by other country just this week.
Got any other brain teasers you stilted fool?
Amir taheri who wrote for kayhan wrote a very Balanced history, nest of spies, which showed the whole mossadegh story was musunderstood.
Nope.
Plus Saudi Arabia.
Syria.
The Yazidi who are part of Iraq.
Amazing how much more attacking they can finance with all those Obama pallets of money.
My question is why do they consider us their enemy?
For the same reason that the Tripolitan ambassador explained to President Thomas Jefferson (et al.) up-thread.
But it was Osama bin Laden who enunciated the principle perhaps most articulately in his (2002) “Letter to America”: [quoting…]
(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:
(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?
[/unQuote]
In other words, the American people — along with the inhabitants of other Western democracies — have the stupendous, mind-boggling temerity to choose to make their own laws, without reference to either Allah or the Koran. Ergo: anathema — death — to the Great Satan!
In subsequent items bin Laden also inveighs against America's penchance for usury, intoxicants, drugs, miscellaneous “acts of immorality,” gambling, “exploitation of women,” sex, AIDS, pollution, together with laws propping up the rich, wealthy, and Jews, but section i — the lack of Islam — is truly America's Satanic foundational principle in bin Laden's eyes.
Pace Robert Cook, the stream of porn cascading down into the Muslim world from satellite tv alone would ensure that folks like Osama bin Laden would be deadly enemies of America even if no American had ever entered or soldier ever fought in the Middle East.
Cook shares the goals.
Cannot see a problem.
Just thinks "it hasn't been done right" before now.
In short, they are our enemy because this is our stance toward them. Of course, when one treats another as an enemy, that engenders in the other entity a similar perception in response.
No, Cookie, Allah tells them to kill us. Of course, you may be Muslim and safe. A bit more difficult for women, FGM and all.
Trump might be a liar, but the U.S. military isn’t.
LOL get fucked, NeverTrumper traitor.
As for "constantly funding terrorism," exactly what and how much terrorism are they funding?
And Socialism. Is it REALLY so bad? (snort)
If we go to war with Iran, it will not be because we "refuse to submit" (sic), but because we will be the aggressors.
Nope.
That’s the excuse.
IF Obama didn’t let the protestors shift in the wind, we might not be here today, either.
Of course IF members of the Obama admin would stop violating the Logan Act.....
"When have they said they intend to kill us?"
Death. To. America.
"When did Iran last attack any other country?"
Couple of days ago.
Safar al hawali, who was part of the awda movement that issued fatwas against coalition troops in Iraq had much the same sentiment.
Well, Iran frequently sends weapons and missiles to Hezbollah to launch at Israel and kill Jews. I suppose that's a feature, not a bug, for Cook. Like most leftists, the more dead Jews the better, as best as I can tell.
Iran hates America because America is the last country with a significant Christian presence, though the leftists like Cook are vigorously trying to change that too. I presume once leftists like Cook open up concentration camps for the Jews and Christians here in America that Iran will cease trying to kill us. Not until then, though. As Inga and the rest of the leftists on this blog demonstrate daily, though, they are more than happy to go that route.
--Vance
al hawali, along with sheikh awda are scheduled to hang shortly, so if you're wondering why the ginned up animus against prince salman, there you go,
most recently coming from this fellow in the new York review of books, which Qatar has provided 15 million reasons to his sponsor,
https://www.brookings.edu/experts/daniel-benjamin/
When have they said they intend to kill us?
Only every time the mullah open their mouths. What does “Death to the Great Satan” mean to you, Bozo? Hatred of America flows strongly in this one.
the soothsaying that passes for intelligence
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/14/stefan-halper-cambridge-spy-conference/
meanwhile there is apparently some cyber attack directed at Russia, this will end well,
Europe is pathetic. I don't know what the heck happened, but that continent is pathetic.
Are Japan and Norway too feeble to take care of themselves?
Japan is under restrictions on the use of force written and imposed by the United States.
Article 9 of the Japanese constitution, which document the United States drafted and imposed on Japan while it was occupied by the US military, absolutely forbids Japan from using force or threat of force as a means of settling international disputes, and prohibits them from maintaining any land, air, or sea forces capable of doing so.
The Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Forces are based on an understanding that Article 9 allows Japan to engage in self-defense and thus have "minimal" forces to that end. To maintain compliance with Article 9, they can only use force if:
(1) There is a present and wrongful danger of invasion to Japan;
(2) No other appropriate measures exist to defend Japan; and
(3) The use of force to defend Japan is limited to the extent only minimally necessary.
Accordingly, thanks to a constitution written by the United States, the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Forces can use force in the Persian Gulf only as far as it is necessary to prevent an invasion of Japan. Shooting people attacking a Japanese tanker would be illegal.
Where did all the Iran news go suddenly. War! War! Then ... bupkis.
Newsweek is a blog nowadays. I don’t think that they rate discussion.
The Klingon joke for limpet mines was funny though.
I don’t think Germany cast any doubt, that implies that they have contrary evidence. I think they sensibly want to wait for the fog of war to clear. That kind of crappo logic is why Newsweek is just a partisan wannabee DailyKos these days.
Iran is big into pushing as far as they can against the us while keeping deniability.
Since the Iranian revolution that Jimmy Carter helped, Iran has considered the us useful enemy and scapegoat.
Both Jimmy Carter and Obama would have been over joyed to normalize relations with Iran.
I have no idea what Trumps next move will be against Iran.
I'm not a big fan of any more wars, either.
But as always the other side gets a veto.
Why are we involved? These aren't US ships or even flagged as US ships.
Bob Loblaw,
Maybe freedom to navigate the seas is important to American interests and we are the largest shipper (to and fro) of goods worldwide?
Just a guess.
China makes a whole lot of money shipping stuff to the US. There's hardly any "fro" to go with that "to". Why shouldn't China insure freedom to navigate?
We get hardly any oil from the Persian Gulf. Heck, since we're exporting now, those are economic competitors. Why should we subsidize other countries?
"The question is: why should we consider them our enemy?"
Maybe it has to do with all of that "Death to America" shit.
"Don't be obtuse."
Ha!
"I merely point out that it was a provocation to the Iranian students, who wanted him turned over to them."
So they could Muammar Al Gathafi his ass.
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