Writes polisci prof David Lay Williams "Trump has made my political science students skeptical — of the Constitution/They used to love the Federalist Papers. Now they see holes in the essays’ arguments" (WaPo).
The sentence quoted above follows this: "The authors of 'The Federalist' also thought that Congress — particularly the Senate — would tamp down the passionate excesses of the people, should they be stimulated by 'artful misrepresentations' from any source (Federalist 63)."
Are Senators really self-censoring more than they used to and is it from a terror of being ridiculed* by the President or angering his fans? If the Senators are so sensitive to popular passions and terrified of voters, it's because they worry about reelection, and that's not a problem with the Federalist Papers, which discuss a constitutional plan in which the Senators were chosen by state legislatures.
Williams asserts that "Trump is eroding" the "'veneration' that successful constitutions require" and that if "people lose faith in the constitutional order, politics can... spiral out of control." What to do? Impeachment!
_______________________
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104 comments:
Polisci quackery from a professorial hack published in the home of Fake News.
It’s another day at WaPoo.
Democracy dies in dimness.
Political science is fraught with risk once you straddle the twilight fringe. The witch hunts and warlock trials serve to exacerbate their reputation. Disinformation campaigns are prosecuted through journolism. In Stork They Trust is a myopic vision.
Dem Senators have no fear of Trump or his base. See, e.g. Senator Spartacus.
Kind of rich, a college professor saying someone else is eroding American values, when that the life mission of most universities these days.
I'd like a poll on how much his students love the Federalist Papers.
Good for David Lay Williams, he made me laugh.
It’s clearly Bullshit. Any decent professor teaching about the Federalist Papers isn’t going to think this. I feel bad for his students.
I can’t read the article (paywall) but it’s WAPO so who cares.
But Professor A is correct making the point about Senators being selected by state legislatures. Bet he never wrestles with that issue.
Which Senators?
Venerated? Most Senators deserve to be mocked. Da Nag Dick from CT is on the top of my list followed by those two clowns from VA.
Weasel words from the professor.
Deflection by bringing up Senators.
Unspoken ( I made student skeptical by using Trump as bait )
What they are really upset is Trump isn't one of them. He didn't make his success as a politician, working through the ranks to become President. Trump made his success in the free market to become President. They don't like that notion.
"and that's not a problem with the Federalist Papers, which discuss a constitutional plan in which the Senators were chosen by state legislatures"
That changed in 1913 with the passage of the 17th Amendment, representing one of the four disastrous political events to occur in that year. The others were,
--- passage of the 16th Amendment (the income tax)
--- Wilson, the internationalist of living Constitution fame became president
--- enactment of the Federal Reserve, a private organization allowed to manipulate
monetary policy
I'd bet he and his students haven't read - collectively - The Federalist Papers.
Ridicule only works if you're in the wrong.
Hamilton wrote the vast majority of The Federalist Papers in short order. And without a computer or typewriter. He also wrote the Constitution in three days.
shorter version: I Used to believe in democracy, when it elected people I liked, but now...
Extolling the Federalists Papers, and at the same time ignoring Federalism.
The United States is just that. A union of sovereign states. The Federal Government created by the People, enumerates the limited power of the federal govt.
I challenge anyone to name something you feel the govt is getting wrong, that can't be cured by following the Constitution.
You know who was ridiculed into silence? The folks that supported and voted in Donald J Trump for POTUS in 2016.
Just another Lefty looking for an excuse to exempt Trump and Trump supporters from normal rules of political discourse. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here wondering why Iran still has a Navy. Every one of their ships should be at the bottom of the sea right now. Problem solved.
You know who was not ridiculed into silence? Hillary fucking Clinton.
Trump’s Twitter feed is worse than when Caesar brought armed soldiers into the Senate! The remedy is the same, I am betting, in their innermost thoughts, and sometimes, as we have seen in these threads, not so innermost.
When I went to college in the pre-historic ‘70s, some of my professors would have asked us to think a little harder about the issue, but these guys today have been getting high off their own supply, and can no longer see outside their bubble.
Well they are rooting for the mullahs, like they were for the Iraqi terrorists in the 00s
Hogwash.
Mom, he hit me back!!!
As Stallone opined the the film classic Cobra:
You are the disease
I'm the cure!
Which side has an organized gang of thugs that create violence at opposition rallies supported by a network of media voices and editors who can spike stories? That’s how Botha took over South Africa, BTW.
In the ‘70s this would have been known as a “relevant fact."
Since when does the average Polisci student study or revere the Constitution? Most of them just want to fundamentally transform America.
I guess his students can be the selves
they were trained to be in college
once Trump is replaced by a Commie or squish Repub like Romney
in 6 years
In philosophy 101, I think, they once taught that if you are presented with only half the available facts, you don’t have a prayer of understanding the situation. Which is the situation they wish to concoct, and which is why Fox News is the enemy.
Well the broederbund likely took notes with the nazis and the klan
Hey Wapo. $250 million. Oberlin College. Gibson's Bakery. Sandmann. What is this world coming to? We can't foment mobs anymore.
Dark days are approaching. The end of civilization as we know it.
It is all Trump's fault.
Odd isn't it. If you glorify victimhood reasonable people might oblige.
Personally, I loved the Federalist Papers during the Obama Administration, and I continue to love it during the Trump era.
What precisely is the problem, Dear Professor?
My vague recollection from college is that Poly Sci majors drank lotsa beer and mostly got Gentlemen C's.
Perhaps times have changed.
Since Trump was elected it seems longer to do my yard work on Saturday. I've noticed I need more oil changes in my car. I used to love BBQ ribs on Sunday, now with Trump, they just taste bland and the kids don't stop by as often, people in the office aren't as friendly, my neighbor doesn't seem to wash his car as often as he used to. I hurt my knee, bumped my head, and painfully bit my tongue since Trump has been in office. I'm thinking more about getting old and dying since Trump. Quality of life in America has definitely gone down since Trump was elected. Impeach!
"Now they see holes in the essays’ arguments"
"Now": so their arguments depend on the political weather?
"The authors of 'The Federalist' also thought that Congress — particularly the Senate — would tamp down the passionate excesses of the people"
But then, progs amended the Constitution, to give "the people" a bigger voice. Progs are always for "the people," unless and until "the people" choose wrong.
"Williams asserts that "Trump is eroding" the "'veneration' that successful constitutions require" and that if "people lose faith in the constitutional order, politics can... spiral out of control."
Which is rich, considering that progs don't give a damn about "the constitutional order," and explicitly rejected the notion that such an "order" exists and should continue, ever since Wilson.
Yes indeed:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/06/13/ignorance-american-history-feeds-demagogues-hate-constitution/
Wilson drank deep from German philosophers like kant, who according to pepper didmt believe in inalienable rights, only positive ones
"... a constitutional plan in which the Senators were chosen by state legislatures." What a concept! And we should return to that plan and repeal the 17th Amendment (OK and the 16th as well...).
The source of totalita
rians
https://las.depaul.edu/academics/political-science/faculty/Pages/david-lay-williams.aspx
If the Senators are so sensitive to popular passions and terrified of voters, it's because they worry about reelection, and that's not a problem with the Federalist Papers
It is a problem being a weenie Senator afraid of the real world where you'd have to get a real job.
I'm a bit surprised Professor Whinge didn't argue Presidential speech is an abuse of Presidential power.
This sort of fake teaching is also destroying young people's interest in history.
President Angelo Kyle, who is black, says the presence of those flags is inappropriate. But that’s not all. Civil War Days presents only one side, he told board members:
“Our ancestors told us what really happened. Did you know that black soldiers were put on the front line in the North and Southern front lines so they would be killed first?”
“There should be some consideration taken for that.”
This is what is dumbing down the kids.
One etymological change is senators are no longer wise old men. L senex.
This type of character is typically represented as a kind and wise, older father-type figure who uses personal knowledge of people and the world to help tell stories and offer guidance that, in a mystical way, may impress upon his audience a sense of who they are and who they might become, thereby acting as a mentor. He may occasionally appear as an absent-minded professor, appearing absent-minded due to a predilection for contemplative pursuits.
The wise old man is often seen to be in some way "foreign", that is, from a different culture, nation, or occasionally, even a different time, from those he advises. In extreme cases, he may be a liminal being, such as Merlin, who was only half human.
In medieval chivalric romance and modern fantasy literature, he is often presented as a wizard.[2] He can also or instead be featured as a hermit. This character type often explained to the knights or heroes—particularly those searching for the Holy Grail—the significance of their encounters.[3]
In storytelling, the character of the wise old man is commonly killed or in some other way removed for a time, in order to allow the hero to develop on his/her own.
The senex no longer mentors women, owing to fear of false sexual accusations.
Isn't it good that students are questioning what they read? Sheesh.
Why does the Professor think that his outlook on the Federalist Paper is the one true outlook?
The general will was the seat of the Terror,and precursor to the Red Terror instituted by Lenin, Stalin defined it.
The dumbocrat party has become a hand wringing, pearl clutching doomsday cult.
Now they see holes in the essays’ arguments
So polisci prof David Lay Williams accidentally said Orange Man Good.
It's well past time to take the car keys back from the A/V club.
I am Laslo.
This is where student movements often end up, in Cuba in ths 40s they had helped topple Machado the dictator de Jure, they had earned autonomy from the authorities and hence as with lord acton, consequently they devolved to gangs the excuse being the corruption under grau the university rector who had led the opposition before.
If Trump has found a way to get Democrat Congressional gasbags to “hold their tongues”, he should be re-elected and feted daily. Unfortunately, their is no evidence for this. Neither WaPo nor academics seem to be troubled by the lack of evidence for their calumnies.
Theirs is an unfortunate inability to discern between bullshitting by a politician like Trump and mendacity by those obliged to report or teach the truth (yes, Freder, Cook, et al, I said “truth.”
So what you think you saw in Missou and Yale and Dartmouth is what actually leads to the brigatte to the baader et al, with the pretext being poverty nazism Vietnam et al
Williams asserts that "Trump is eroding" the "'veneration' that successful constitutions require" and that if "people lose faith in the constitutional order, politics can... spiral out of control."
The lack of self awareness is breath taking.
Trump has shown there is no science in Poly Sci. Just listen to the people and not the swamp.
I think the professor is pushing for complete democracy and no electoral college - a Rousseau disciple.
Comments have been excellent and enlightening.
"Did you know that black soldiers were put on the front line in the North and Southern front lines so they would be killed first?”
Lets get a little more accurate here,
"Did you know that abortion clinics are put on the front line in black neighborhoods in both the North and Southern front lines so they would be killed first?”
Bruce Fleury, The Negro Project: Margaret Sanger's Diabolical, Duplicitous, Dangerous, Disastrous, and Deadly Plan for Black America (2015)
"Williams asserts that "Trump is eroding" the "'veneration' that successful constitutions require" and that if "people lose faith in the constitutional order, politics can... spiral out of control.""
Remember how they all venerated Chimpy McHitler?
Imagine the breakdown in the search for Veritas that is needed to produce such Leftist nonsense inside such an impervious bubble.
Next thing you know, he'll be pushing students to attack private businesses in the Austin area that are not sufficiently woke.
Yet another in a long line of local stories undeserving of national media coverage.
The Long March by the Gramscians continues apace, antithetical to freedom.
Leftist Collectivists will now commence protecting the narrative.
So senators are finally understanding how conservative students feel on campus?
These kids are taught the white man killed all the buffalo to starve the Indians.
>>"But now my students watch as senators hold their tongues, terrified of being ridiculed on the president’s Twitter feed or angering Trump’s base."<<
Sort of like the way your students hold their tongues in your classroom, terrified of the hit their grade would take if you were to hear them say, eg, “illegal alien” or “oriental guy” or “retarded.”
Angering Trump’s base. Constituents?
He looks young.
Its Chicago how many trump supporters are you likely to find.
I know students from the other midwest states and some in the south.
"Terrified".
By mean things the president might say on twitter.
Yeah, not buying it.
The good professor writes: "Students today are far more skeptical of the argument in "The Federalist” that the Constitution’s famous checks and balances would be sufficient to keep a demagogue from attaining the presidency, for example — or exerting malign power should he attain office."
The professor apparently has a memory issue.
Who is famous for saying: "If congress doesn't act, I will."? Or: "I have a pen and a phone."?
If you said Barack Hussein O, you would be right.
Of course Senators are self-censoring, wouldn’t you if afraid to be confronted by Hitler? Which he obviously is — just watch the View.
"You know who was ridiculed into silence? The folks that supported and voted in Donald J Trump for POTUS in 2016."
Buwhahahaha!! Funniest thing I've read all day....your sarcasm knows no bounds.
Trump should be arrested for lèse-majesté for insulting Pelosi.
Yeah, purplepenguin.
People who support Trump weren't the least bit quieted by Leftist Collectivists.
Like the Gibsons w/rt Oberlin.
Or James Damore w/rt Google.
Or PJMedia w/rt Pinterest.
Maybe Big Tech is just practicing sarcasm.
Michael K said...
This sort of fake teaching is also destroying young people's interest in history.
It's hard to be interested in history, once you see that Everyone, and Anyone can just make up their own historical 'facts' when ever they want
Williams has it wrong. The root cause of disrespect for the Rule of Law, and for the Constitution is too much Law.
Paywalled at WaPo, but Googling "veneration that successful constitutions require" brought up Williams' op-ed at
https://www.wacotrib.com/opinion/columns/guest_columns/david-lay-williams-washington-post-students-question-value-of-constitution/article_252758cc-9461-595e-8ca1-470b86ec984e.html
I agree with Williams that veneration of the Constitution - in broader sense, respect for Law - is needed for a healthy civilization. I agree that much is lacking in America today.
Beyond that, Williams's writing is simply another screed that piously projects the proclivities of "Progressives" onto other actors. It is IMO Progressives in academia, the media, Government, and business who foster and foment disrespect for the Rule of Law generally and the Constitution particularly. It is most certainly NOT all attributable to one individual DRT.
Who found a "right to privacy" in the Constitution? Who forced a change in the definitions of marriage, gender, and sex? Who now tells us the Electoral College is pase? Who blatently flouts national security laws? Who makes mockery of voter registration?
Who gleefully and willfully misconstues what President Trump writes and says. MS-13 != all illegal Mexican immigrants. Noting information available from foreign sources != paying foreign sources to produce false intelligence on political opponents.
If there were not so much power ceded to Government by the People - or accreted by Government to itself - there would be less abuse of the People by Government, and more respect of the People for Government.
"The wise old man is often seen to be in some way "foreign", that is, from a different culture, nation, or occasionally, even a different time, from those he advises"
Thats me! In my professional capacity as well as online.
BS. I call BS.
It's pretty well documented that putting a single Trump bumper sticker on is an invitation to getting your vehicle keyed or worse. A back end full of liberal platitudes leads merely to raucous laughter from those viewing it.
Liberals like to project what they do onto others, accusing them of doing it while denying their own sins. Democrats spent two years accusing Trump of collusion, only to be let down by the Mueller report. Followed by a lame attempt to accuse Trump of obstruction of justice for daring to defend himself against false charges. The American people weren't buying it, and that fell by the wayside. Now they're openly accusing Trump of treason, and this professor is saying senators are afraid of speaking their minds for fear of being ridiculed by POTUS on twitter. There's a serious disconnect between what he sees and what's happening.
The US constitution and its political system are indeed obsolete, because they were written for a time when Federal powers were limited and the power of the interests these powers created were also limited.
The increase of government power and its centralization is what is breaking the system. A group of 50 semi independent countries would not have these problems, they would have other problems.
Its interesting to consider that at the time of the American Revolution, no European country was as intensely governed, as formally governed, nor was its governance as centralized, as the US today. And the American colonies revolted against the rule of Britain, at the time the least-centralized polity in Europe. It took a lot of European wars, revolts, civil unrest, to implement the "liberal" (that is, centralized, formalized) governance of the present.
The Catholic position I was taught, which is still the official position, which is now obsolete in practice, was subsidiarity. That is, that government powers should be devolved to the lowest feasible level.
This is the distilled result of the long, losing fight the Church put up against "liberal" centralizers throughout the 19th-20th centuries, from the French Revolution to Bismarck to the communists. It was at the core of every reactionary struggle. "Don't tread on me" could have been the motto of any of them.
The liberal world view requires governments to be run from the top down, and with its powers extended to all of humanity, in order to implement a benevolent and uniform formalized vision on its subjects. This was as totalitarian in 1792 as it is today, but much of this got a pass in liberal historiography. Only egregious excesses, and only some of those, are defined as erroneous.
The properly conservative view sees all this as a continuum of hubris and oppression. Stalinism shades by degrees to the European Union. Or the modern United States.
Repeal the 17th!
I was wondering why we never hear any criticism of the President. He seems to be adored by the entire Washington establishment.
David Lay Williams needs to explain how The Second Coming of Hitler, This Time in Orange, has somehow been averted -- if not through the balance of powers described in the Federalist Papers, the only other explanation would be through Trump's grace and mercy.
The US constitution and its political system are indeed obsolete, because they were written for a time when Federal powers were limited and the power of the interests these powers created were also limited.
Mankind hasn’t changed. Therefore the Constitution and political system are not obsolete.
Sixty years ago I would've dropped that douche's class like a dirty jock strap.
R Senators refusing to criticize Trump = Collapse of the Republic
D Senators refusing to criticize Obama = Supporting our Commander in Chief!
99% of all PolySci Professors agree!
"You know who was ridiculed into silence? The folks that supported and voted in Donald J Trump for POTUS in 2016."
PPenguin: Buwhahahaha!! Funniest thing I've read all day....your sarcasm knows no bounds.
Out here in the Democratic Republic of Portland, admitting to wrongthink like voting for Trump causes people to fight or flee. People with Love Trumps Hate signs are the worst. Don't let them know you're a Trumper!
Fucking ridiculous. This is a more subtle effort at crybullying but people will never accept it from US Senators.
It seems like just yesterday people were pretending campus nonsense is just campus nonsense and not a movement to change our broader society.
Never mind, that was just yesterday. And today as well.
"Out here in the Democratic Republic of Portland"
It didn't used to be that way. But when you got a bunch of "Nice liberals" and put some left-wing radicals in their mix, two things happen. Some of the "Nice Liberals" become radicalized. And two, the rest of the "Nice liberals" just run away or give in. They refuse to fight the LEFT. They can ONLY fight the right.
buwaya,
You were taught that power should be devolved because it best counterbalances man's inherent fallibility. That remains obvious. Your nuns, priests, and the Church itself was correct. The days of the Church being correct seem to have gone.
FDR wanted to consolidate power, influenced as he was by Collectivist world leaders elsewhere. And his cabinet and administration further his preferences. And the courts, the last breaker in the system, was rolled by FDR's consolidated power. FDR started the Gramscian movement at the federal level.
But to conservatives who care about freedom - free people and free markets - one answer is always to devolve power back to the states. That is why the SCOTUS should restrain itself and reverse the penumbras and emanations nonsense. That is why regulations must be unwound and removed. We will either roll back the Long March or America will fail to the entire world's detriment.
If American sneezes Europe will catch a cold and Asia will starve.
Those who have feathered their nests in the old system will not be willingly displaced.
And as an American I remain hopeful. The jury who found against Oberlin is but one example of all that great teaching you inherited that has not been lost, only misplaced. Or perhaps hidden within the redoubts of the Left: universities and Hollywood.
I went to Easter church for the first time in ten years, being a Presbyterian atheist and all. The pastor lady was talking something, something, fight white supremacy. I was a little taken aback.
But that's the DRP, the whitest major city in Amerika. We have Patriot Prayer and Antifa facing off on a regular basis downtown. If PP is white supremacist, it would be news to me. I Civil War reenact and half of us play Confederate. I hang around with the white working class, which includes blacks and Hispanics.
I swear, if there was some white supreminizing going on, I would know.
It's terrifying for our urban gentry: the climate, plastic straws, bad white people living outside the city.
"Terrified of being ridiculed on the president’s Twitter feed"
(flops hand)
Stalked by a mob surrounding their home.
Skull cracked open by bicycle lock.
Shot to death on a softball field.
(rakes in pot)
Pleasure having you Prof. You come back again when you get more cash.
I can think of some people whose heads I'd like to nail to the floor.
Impeachment? For whatever reason. Please do, throw Br'er Rabbit in the brier patch.
the rest of the "Nice liberals" just run away or give in. They refuse to fight the LEFT. They can ONLY fight the right.
I wish this were the worst case but it isn't. Even when self proclaimed liberals oppose the radicals they are happy to continue fighting the right's effort to oppose them, minimizing the damage they take and making them stronger. For example when an opportunity comes to highlight the left's true insanity they will assert it's only a local story.
Why it's almost enough to make you wonder if they really oppose the radicals or if that's only a pose which strengthen's their efforts to defend their allies.
well the Schlesinger circle of concerned liberals really lasted, the neocons were among the ones who put some resistance, notably podhoretz, and kristol, the first is the wise man, who was most recently speaking truth to power in the Claremont review, the last has passed on, and the sons haven't learned the essential lesson,
things that make you say hmm:
https://babalublog.com/2019/06/15/cold-war-files-on-pierre-trudeau-illegally-destroyed-by-canadas-top-spy-agency/
Well the rumor is Prime Minister Zoolander is Castro’s.
Well there is some of a resemblance, but he had the personality of a cucumber.
So are these terrified, tongue-holding Senators people like Warren, Harris, Booker and Klobuchar? (Am I forgetting anyone? There's a lot of people in the Democrat candidate clown limo...) So much terrified tongue-holding! Sad!
The use of the sarcasm scene from the Python skit about criminality in London was amusing, because the point of the skit was that criminals at that time could and did get away with everything up to and including the use of a nuclear weapon. At which point "even the Metropolitan Police had to take some notice," IIRC.
The situation today is that one political party abuses their offices beyond belief, with criminally weaponized IRS, DOJ, HUD, ATF, EPA, CIA, FBI, and on and on, used to oppress citizens and political opponents alike. And the other political party is told by these creeps they will be removed from office for imaginary events, orchestrated by these cancers on the government. Eventually, even the local police will have to sit up and take some notice.
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