Trump to the crowd: You were "the invisible people." And then:
You're the smartest... the hardest working... great talent. You're the best-looking people, that's for sure. You ever see? I joke about this, but it's really not joking. They call themselves 'the elite.' You ever see 'the elite'? This is 'the elite.' They're not elite. You're elite.... Let's let them be elite, but we're the super-elite. There's not even a contest. Not even a contest. I always laugh when I hear 'the elite,' and then you see this guy. He's not elite. Not in my book, he's not.ADDED: Makes me think of the old saying: "Washington is Hollywood for ugly people."
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401 comments:
1 – 200 of 401 Newer› Newest»Poor deplorables. They lick Trump's ass day and night even as he totally sells them out and gets fully absorbed by the Establishment blob. They voted for Donald Trump but got Jared Kushner. I didn't mind having a sleazy New York real estate developer in the White House. Just not that sleazy New York real estate developer.
I love this guy. Al Czervik has arrived and the country club crowd squirms in their seats.
p.s. It's always funny when incredibly ugly men insult other people's looks. Can you imagine what poor Melania has to look at every morning? Yikes.
"Washington is Hollywood for ugly people"
Shh. Don't tell Jerry Nadler.
I'm very happy with Prez Trump's performance.
DOW 26,000. GDP growth +3%. Record low unemployment. Peace.
His satirical, sarcastic attack on PC censorship continues to make me laugh.
I'm hoping in his second term that he can get the wall built.
That he actually likes us is gravy. We've got the Democrats to tell us that we're sinful bigots.
@Humperdink:
I love this guy. Al Czervik has arrived and the country club crowd squirms in their seats.
I think you just put your finger on the problem. People like him because he's an avatar in the culture war, and they are completely blind to the fact that Trumpism is in tatters. This is part of the stupid cult of personality that has become endemic to the presidency. Caring about Trump but not Trumpism is meaningless. The fact that Trump pisses off the PC/SJW left might be good for the id, but it does fuck all for the country.
It's a direct response to the Democrats' characterization of anyone who voted for Trump as a "toothless hillbilly" or "Walmart people" (who smell).
J Farmer, you're doing a "no true Trump man" thing.
@J. Farmer
You're a dummy.
Prez Trump is, and I suspect will continue to be, the most successful president of my life.
You're consumed by sexual jealousy. I see this a lot. He gets beautiful pussy and you don't.
Cease confusing your hot jealousy with morality and politics. Get a grip.
I see that Farmer has dropped his intellectual pose.
Farmer, your response mystifies me.
Kavanaugh
Tax cuts
NATO paying up (finally)
Federal judges
Pro-life
Unemployment at historic lows
Cutting regs
and on it goes......
There's a forest out there beyond the trees.
From you I am expecting a "yeah but ...."
@Shouting Thomas:
So demographic displacement continues unabated but at least we had an extra percent of GDP growth. And now that an R is in the White House, are we back to saying that deficits don't matter?
And as for peace, tell that to the young American men dying in Afghanistan. Trump couldn't even get the troops out of Syria, and he's pursuing a foolishly aggressive course of action against Iran and Venezuela and is laying the ground for a renewed arms race.
That he actually likes us is gravy. We've got the Democrats to tell us that we're sinful bigots.
I've never looked to politicians for personal validation.
Listening last night I got the impression Trump had something more specific to say, perhaps about certain individuals, but held his tongue.
J. Farmer said...
Poor deplorables. They lick Trump's ass day and night even as he totally sells them out and gets fully absorbed by the Establishment blob.
Reminds me of this exchange from this week's Billions episode "Fight Night"
Sara: That's a gutless split, Wagner. But then, it's gonna be a sad day in Palookaville when your washed-up Louis meets his Marciano.
Wags: [chuckles] Sweetheart. I've known that traitorous dog Mafee for many years, and I promise you, that jaw of his is fragile as Murano blown glass.
Sara: Blown Glass, that was your fraternity nickname wasn't it?
Wags: Nope. Algonquin Ass-Eater.
The fact that Trump pisses off the PC/SJW left might be good for the id, but it does fuck all for the country.
He's not as bad as all that. The media won't let you remember the good stuff that is really there. But as far as the border, he really screwed up. Bigly.
I've never looked to politicians for personal validation.
Jesus, you've got it bad.
All I'm saying is that I'll take the guy who likes me over the guy who calls me nasty names.
Trump is a brilliant political strategist. He's doing a great job.
Who's president is not a paramount issue in my life. It's a very tiny issue. Within that little space of my life that concerns politics, I like Trump.
You're projecting.
As an ex-bureaucrat I would add: the bureaucrats (generally) are even uglier than the politicians. I'm reminded of this by all the leaking in the Trump administration. "He doesn't sit still until the end of my briefing! I worked hard on that briefing!" The revenge of the nerds.
Randy Newman would joke that even as his songs made money, he wasn't exactly a popular performer. "Have you seen my fans? They don't even look good to me. Now I'll get in trouble for saying that."
What color sky?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-china-decided-to-play-hardball-in-trade-talks-11557358715?mod=mhp
@Shouting Thomas:
You're a dummy.
King of snappy comebacks strikes again!
Prez Trump is, and I suspect will continue to be, the most successful president of my life.
Remember that signature campaign promised that he talked about at every rally all the time for a year? I'll give you a hint. It starts with a W and ends in all. He failed.
You're consumed by sexual jealousy. I see this a lot. He gets beautiful pussy and you don't.
I can assure you I don't have an ounce of jealousy over "beautiful pussy."
Cease confusing your hot jealousy with morality and politics. Get a grip.
See above.
"Poor deplorables." "They lick Trump's ass" "he totally sells them out" "a sleazy New York real estate developer"
Good to know. We just got the full intellectual, nuanced, examination of the last 2+ years of a President's accomplishments. Such a breath of fresh air as opposed to the constant ad hominem attacks.
Yes poor Venezuela, just crushing their people giving sanctuary to Colombian guerillas
It's the pussy, J. Farmer.
He's smarter than you, richer than you, and he's got gorgeous pussy.
You're not complicated. Like the rest of us, you're really very simply.
Stop festering over it. Melania is above your class.
@Shouting Thomas:
All I'm saying is that I'll take the guy who likes me over the guy who calls me nasty names.
Frankly, I find it bizarre that you think you know how Trump feels about you personally.
Trump is a brilliant political strategist.
So was Bill Clinton. So what?
He's doing a great job.
From the perspective of GOP Inc, you're right. But his campaign was supposedly a repudiation of that.
You're projecting.
What exactly am I projecting?
You're projecting that I obsess and spend a lot of time on Trump.
That's what you do.
Now, let's get back to Melania's pussy.
You don't stand a chance in Hell.
@Shouting Thomas:
It's the pussy, J. Farmer.
Perhaps I was too subtle before, so let me be blunt: I'm attracted to men, dipshit.
He's smarter than you, richer than you, and he's got gorgeous pussy.
He is certainly richer than I am. Smarter? I doubt it. And as for the pussy, see above.
Stop festering over it. Melania is above your class.
You're free to think this has something to do with some personal feelings I have towards them. It doesn't. I don't know them, and I don't care about their personal lives. I am criticizing performance.
I think RNB is right; this is just the equivalent of poking back for all the standard "Republicans are ugly" comments over the years. And that Trump's natural go-to is petty name calling. Even if you like the guy, you have to admit that's one of the things he does best.
@Shouting Thomas:
You're projecting that I obsess and spend a lot of time on Trump.
I never said anything of the kind.
Now, let's get back to Melania's pussy.
You don't stand a chance in Hell.
Right. No one with money has ever gotten an Eastern European woman before.
You must be the zillionth dumb ass goof on the web who thinks he's smarter than the guy who defeated both parties and the media to win the presidency, then defeated an attempt led by the FBI and DOJ to drive him out of office.
I'm just free lance ridiculing you for your preposterous stupidity and arrogance.
In every way imaginable, you're a gnat in this universe in comparison to President Trump.
Cease making a fool out of yourself. You're acting like a dunce.
Well this thread sure went to shit in hurry.
You wanted Medicare for all, is that your disappointment, maybe an Iranian proxy blocking access to oil,
Since many people have responded to me with variations of the same comment (i.e. look at his accomplishments), I'll just reply generally instead of individually.
Trump distinguished himself from the GOP field on three issues, which is now generally referred to as Trumpism. Immigration, trade, and less interventionist foreign policy. He failed on the wall, and given that Jared is spearheading "comprehensive" immigration reform, expect a sellout. We've got Pompeo and John Bolton running a Neocon 101 foreign policy, and trade remains to be seen.
they are completely blind to the fact that Trumpism is in tatters.
Bad case of TDS. I wonder why?
Trump has had almost no help from the DC crowd of both parties and yet has gotten a lot done in spite of it.
Pat Buchanan foreign policy is not what's for dinner. I agree about Afghanistan and that is probably why Mattis left. The whole Pentagon is on the other side from Trump. As for Iran, I see no chance we would get into a shooting war.
@Shouting Thomas:
You must be the zillionth dumb ass goof on the web who thinks he's smarter than the guy who defeated both parties and the media to win the presidency, then defeated an attempt led by the FBI and DOJ to drive him out of office.
Well in my case it happens to be true. Is anybody smarter than Trump in your universe. God, fanboys are unbearable.
In every way imaginable, you're a gnat in this universe in comparison to President Trump.
Well, when our descendants become ethnic minorities in the country their ancestors built, at least they'll have that to console them.
I'll take Trump's imperfections over the universal corrupt left.
He probably still thinks Reagan was going to start a war with the Soviets
Admittedly Kelly and Nielsen were dissapoimtments but kobach wasnt going to get through the senate.
Michael K:
Bad case of TDS. I wonder why?
I was actually pretty early in my support for Trump, mostly over immigration, which I consider the quintessential issue in the country. Read some other early and sympathetic Trump supporters: Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Mickey Kaus, Mark Krikorian. They share my criticisms. Are we all suffering from TDS?
Pat Buchanan foreign policy is not what's for dinner.
Yeah, it's not as if Trump ever used a Buchananite phrase like "America First."
Honestly, as I watched last night, admittedly on my low-resolution kitchen TV, I said to myself from the start of the speech that Trump looks rested, tanned and refreshed -- young than he's looked in some time.
Beautiful people; and also murderous xenophobes, right?
Althouse did you miss the audience member who suggested that border patrol officers "just shoot" migrants at the border, following which Trump joked that "only in the Panhandle [of Florida] can you get away with that statement."
Round 2 of Trump's gleeful celebration of what rubes make up his base of support. Sales targets, who love his phony pitches but who are in fact so dumb that he could shoot somebody and get away with it, and who live in places where joking about shooting migrants is okay too.
Only in the Panhandle. Of course Trump isn't from the Panhandle. He's from Palm Beach.
The Elite: people with a BA in English who live on the East Coast and sit in front of monitor all day.
Coulter is fickle, Ingraham is still on board,
@BleachBit-and-Hammers:
I'll take Trump's imperfections over the universal corrupt left.
I don't offer the left as an alternative. I'm to Trump's right. But what do you think is going to happen to the power of the "left" once demographic change does its work on Florida and Texas?
" where joking about shooting migrants is okay too."
Chuck is King of #That'sNotFunny
Farmer is 100% right. If the right continues piss off the PC/SJW, they'll just take their degrees in Gender and Women's Studies and go home. Without these folks and the wisdom they have gained from their course work, there is no hope for this country.
“Remember that signature campaign promised that he talked about at every rally all the time for a year? I'll give you a hint. It starts with a W and ends in all. He failed.”
Name one President prior to Trump who even tried. Farmer illustrates why I’ve become completely disaffected from Establishment Libertarianism. It’s a White, middle-class fantasy world in which the perfect is ever the enemy of the good. And since they can’t have their perfect they’ll signal their principles by taking a dive for a Left that despises those principles. It’s the kind of endemic goofy self-harm that’s only possible in the Postwar American Wonderland
Trump has his people as being the the best simply because they live in reality. We accept boundaries that we vote for and respect but we laugh at imaginary crisis after imaginary end of the world fantasy crisis pumped out by the Propaganda Media to enslave our minds , imprison our bodies and steal our Private Property.
Everybody can deal with reality. Nobody survives being brainwashed by Government PsyOps mind control.So we intelligently cling to our real guns and our reality based religion just like our Daddies used to do.
No true believer in Trumpism could support Trump. I hope you realize how silly that sounds, Farmer, given that there's nobody closer to Trump (or to the right of Trump) around.
@narciso:
Coulter is fickle, Ingraham is still on board,
Coulter has been consistent from the beginning. It's Trump who failed to deliver his signature campaign promise.
You're free to think this has something to do with some personal feelings I have towards them. It doesn't. I don't know them, and I don't care about their personal lives. I am criticizing performance.
You don't care about personal feelings, that's why you talk about people licking people's asses. Of course, maybe that's how you say hello.
Bay Area Guy said...
"Shh. Don't tell Jerry Nadler."
Nobody told Steve Buscemi, thank goodness.
"Establishment Libertarianism"
WTF is this? A wall would be the opposite of what a traditional Libertarian would want.
@mtrobertslaw:
Farmer is 100% right. If the right continues piss off the PC/SJW, they'll just take their degrees in Gender and Women's Studies and go home. Without these folks and the wisdom they have gained from their course work, there is no hope for this country.
Master class in missing the point. I have nothing but contempt for the PC/SJW mindset. But that is a totally second tier issue when compared to immigration. How much more prevalent do you think that mindset will be once the country is less than half white?
Farmer illustrates why I’ve become completely disaffected from Establishment Libertarianism.
Me too. I see Laura Ingraham once in a while as my wife watches Fox News. I've missed her disillusionment with Trump.
Mickey Kaus is a Democrat with whom I've agreed on a lot. He was a friend of Cathy Seipp. He is pretty much a one issue guy; immigration. So was Caesar Chavez. Tell me how Trump gets anything done with a D House ?
People like you remind me of children on a trip. "Are we there yet ? Are we there yet ? When will we get there?"
The biggest thing that occurred in America last night wasn't Trump's rally but the actions of STEM students at their vigil when Sen. Bennet and gun control activists tried to hijack it to push their politics.
STEM students got vocal and walked out, held their own vigil. Much more adult than the "adults" in the room. Leaving gun groups scrambling to apologize and the media to pretend it all never happened.
Gun-control group Brady apologizes to students at STEM School Highlands Ranch for politicizing vigil
"Master class in missing the point. I have nothing but contempt for the PC/SJW mindset. But that is a totally second tier issue when compared to immigration. How much more prevalent do you think that mindset will be once the country is less than half white?"
Farmer, your sarcasm meter be broked.
“It's Trump who failed to deliver his signature campaign promise.”
WTF! He failed to deliver a major American policy change within two years in the face of rabid opposition from both parties and the media? The bastard! And those poor rubes who voted for him. Suckers!
@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:
Name one President prior to Trump who even tried.
So what? We should just give him an e for effort and move on? You're much more forgiving than I am.
It’s a White, middle-class fantasy world in which the perfect is ever the enemy of the good. And since they can’t have their perfect they’ll signal their principles by taking a dive for a Left that despises those principles. It’s the kind of endemic goofy self-harm that’s only possible in the Postwar American Wonderland
You've really missed the mark. I am not a libertarian; I'm an ethno-nationalist. And building a wall is not the perfect, it's the bare minimum. My perfect would be a total moratorium on immigration, but I can live without getting that if we got universal E-verify and entry/exit tracking for visas.
J. Farmer: I share your frustration to some degree with the gap between what Trump promised--I always read that as "aspired to" BTW--and what he's been able to achieve.
There have been, and are lapses (e.g. what is Alex Acosta still doing in Trump's cabinet), but on the whole, it's not been for lack of trying.
Remember, we have a lot of lefty Circuit Court judges who've blocked the actions of this administration, and a group of spineless Republican cucks in DC who did jack-shit to advance Trump's agenda during the first two years of the Administration, when they controlled the House as well as the Senate. With the welcome exception of the tax cuts. But no wall funding, no O-Care repeal, etc, etc. A bunch of self-interested toads, with very few exceptions.
This whole three-branches-of-Government thing tends to slow things down--as intended--when not everyone is on board with the President's agenda. Trump has shown more respect for this arrangement than many others recently.
I think that the best we can hope for is that the Dims will lose big-time in the next election cycle and that the Republicans grow a set and get with the program.
@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:
WTF! He failed to deliver a major American policy change within two years in the face of rabid opposition from both parties and the media? The bastard! And those poor rubes who voted for him. Suckers!
Right, some mysterious power forced Trump to punt his domestic agenda to Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. And someone must've hid his veto pen when he signed the omnibus bill that specifically forbade funds for new wall. And whatever happened to that anchor baby executive order? Oh well...he's pissing off the talking heads at MSNBC...winning!
" Republican cucks in DC who did jack-shit to advance Trump's agenda during the first two years of the Administration"
To be really honest, those guys have done jack shit for a loooong time.
@ Farmer
I don't offer the left as an alternative. I'm to Trump's right. But what do you think is going to happen to the power of the "left" once demographic change does its work on Florida and Texas?
We are screwed. And again, I share your frustration.
The Panhandle of Florida is close to 80% Trump supporters. And it's not because they are rural folks.They are the best educated of the families of active and retired Military Officers, Avionics experts and Weapons Engineers on this earth. They live in 100% tested realty space and they all highly value Commander-in Chief Trump as being one of them.
I detected mtrobertslaw sarcasm right off the pop. But only because I had my meter re-calibrated last night.
@Known Unknown:
Farmer, your sarcasm meter be broked.
No, I got the sarcasm, but it was sarcasm in service of ridiculing a point the commenter thought I made, which I didn't. Hence the "missing the point."
Only in the Panhandle. Of course Trump isn't from the Panhandle. He's from Palm Beach.
Trump supporters are still deplorables in your book, right Chuck?
He went through the Senate, he did the shutdown now he got the exec order,
Farmer - Recall tho - The first two years were blown, in part, due to back-stabbing by the likes of Merkowski, McCain and Flake.
@Michael K:
Me too.
Given that I am not and have never been a libertarian, that's interesting. Libertarianism favors open borders, which is pretty much my nightmare.
Tell me how Trump gets anything done with a D House ?
Please explain why Trump had to prioritize the Paul Ryan/Mitch McConnell domestic agenda.
People like you remind me of children on a trip. "Are we there yet ? Are we there yet ? When will we get there?"
So don't criticize Trump until his term is over? Well that makes sense.
“WTF is this? A wall would be the opposite of what a traditional Libertarian would want.”
Hence the “White, middle-class, fantasy world”. Alternatively, “We had to burn Libertarianism to save Libertarianism.”
I understand that ideologically pure Libertarians are, paradoxically, for open borders. It’s the ease with which they give up that was evoked by Farmer’s absurd expectations.
Besides cotton who and Cruz who else did he have to work with, not Sasse or flake or Lee apparently.
Tell me the magic solution farmer I'm all ears.
@narciso:
He went through the Senate, he did the shutdown now he got the exec order,
The shutdown showdown was a loss for Trump. What executive order are you referring to?
Also, Trump Administration Issues Rule to Allow 30,000 Additional Seasonal Worker Visas. America First.
@narciso:
Tell me the magic solution farmer I'm all ears.
Get Jared and Ivanka and their malignant influence as far from the Oval Office as possible. Listen to Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon and Kris Kobach and Numbers USA. Those would all be excellent starts.
The biggest complaint from the right about Trump has been his failure to get a wall built. The argument is that he should have pushed for it while Republicans still controlled both houses. But realistically, even if he did it would have most likely been a long shot due to opposition from within his own party. He probably realized this and instead decided to get what he could get do done, like the tax cut.
Could he have done things differently and been successful? Well, in order to do so he would have had to turn his demagoguery towards people in his own party. You might imagine Trump Tweeting at them and talking about them at rallies and in interviews, accussing them of being open borders advocates. Would that have worked? Would shaming wall hating Republicans get him funding for the wall? Or would it have made things more difficult? I honestly don't know.
narciso said...
You wanted Medicare for all, is that your disappointment, maybe an Iranian proxy blocking access to oil,
5/9/19, 8:34 AM2x2
I do believe that J. Farmer is in fact a supporter of Iran, and of the Obama initiatives to set them up as what he may have hoped to be our satrap, but in fact would have tended to liberate and enable them as independent regional hegemon. I can't understand why, but he's so bright that he could possibly explain it to you, if he chose to be honest, though not without profanity.
I’m amazed Trump has done as much as he has. Courts are slowing down the Trump immigration efforts.
I doubt the Democratic house will do anything on immigration. I would be surprised if they do anything that would give Trump any credit. The infrastructure idea surprised me, but we will see.
Immigration reform in the first two years of the Trump administration was assassinated by the GOPe, especially Ryan, plus Trump haters, especially McCain.
A real eVerify, fines with bounties for hiring the undocumented, and making h1b’s not tied to one job, would do a huge amount to clean up the system.
A higher minimum wage is helping, by making automation a more economical choice than workers. This is going to destroy a lot of low skill work.
On wars abroad, Trump has not gotten the us into any new wars. The existing ones are a briar patch, and hard to get out of. I would give Trump a solid B on foreign policy. It’s much better that the last couple of Presidents and he has exposed a lot of hidden hypocrisy that was deliberately ignored, not seen, to the cleansing of light, being openly discussed. Which has changed the Overton Window in many areas.
@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:
I understand that ideologically pure Libertarians are, paradoxically, for open borders. It’s the ease with which they give up that was evoked by Farmer’s absurd expectations.
Holding Trump's feet to the fire on immigration is not giving up. The people who ignore or make excuses for his failures are better candidates for that charge.
Except Coulter has given up, years ago tucker fired Kaus from the daily caller, he has since resonated some understanding
And Hollywood is Washington for stupid people.
Shes on the Bernie bandwagon now.
@Ray - SoCal:
I doubt the Democratic house will do anything on immigration. I would be surprised if they do anything that would give Trump any credit. The infrastructure idea surprised me, but we will see.
Uh, remember those two years of Trump's presidency when Paul Ryan was Speaker of the House?
Immigration reform in the first two years of the Trump administration was assassinated by the GOPe, especially Ryan, plus Trump haters, especially McCain
Precisely why punting to Paul Ryan was such a stupid. Especially for someone who people consider a master strategist.
"Precisely why punting to Paul Ryan was such a stupid. Especially for someone who people consider a master strategist."
What was the appropriate course of action? This is a sincere question because we have been told over and over that the only way to really get funding is to go through Congress.
@Nichevo:
I do believe that J. Farmer is in fact a supporter of Iran
Oh brother. Do you bozos ever get tired of the same stupid cliches? I was opposed to the intervention in Libya, too. Must be because I'm a Libya supporter. I never wanted the US to intervene in Sudan, either. So I'm obviously in the tank for that country. I don't want the US to get involved in the civil wars in Central Africa. Obviously I; carrying water for the regimes there, too.
but in fact would have tended to liberate and enable them as independent regional hegemon
Iran is a weak and impoverished company. He cannot project any significant military force outside its borders. It is not and is nowhere close to being an "independent regional hegemon."
Please explain why Trump had to prioritize the Paul Ryan/Mitch McConnell domestic agenda.
That was all he could get cooperation with. The tax cut has helped, especially in getting repatriated money from overseas.
Deregulation and support for energy development was all by EO.
I highly recommend this review of Tucker Carlson's book by Michael Anton.
The ruling class knows this. Its leftist handmaidens know it. They can’t beat him on the field of ideas. Not simply because he’s smarter and wittier than they are, but more fundamentally because he’s right and they’re wrong. And they know it. As Carlson put it to me:
On some level, they know they’re rotten. They know their gains are ill-gotten and not deserved, the result of bleeding middle America dry. But rather than accept responsibility, what do they do? They blame middle America. They hate middle America because they shafted middle America. Think about it, who do you hate the most? You hate the people you wrong. You get mad at family members more when you wrong them than when they wrong you. It’s the same dynamic. Grown-ups can admit it and apologize. The ruling class can’t.
This is an existential war.
@Known Unknown:
What was the appropriate course of action? This is a sincere question because we have been told over and over that the only way to really get funding is to go through Congress.
Well for starters, Trump could have made it known that it was priority one on his domestic agenda and put pressure on Congress to support the wall. I am not informed enough on the issue one way or another, but I have read arguments that Trump could build the wall under his commander-in-chief power. Again, I don't actually know how viable that argument is, but I have heard it.
Iran is a weak and impoverished company. He cannot project any significant military force outside its borders. It is not and is nowhere close to being an "independent regional hegemon."<
So, why are you hysterical that Trump will get us into a war with them? Probably the Pat Buchanan version of anti-Israel hysteria.
@Michael K:
This is an existential war.
The greatest risk is demographic. How much do you think a cut to top marginal tax rates will matter when your grandchildren are an ethnic minority in a county your forefathers helped build?
Farmer illustrates why I’ve become completely disaffected from Establishment Libertarianism.
I'm **pretty sure** Farmer is not an "establishment libertarian", which I'm taking to mean the open-borders types at Reason.com
I'm pretty much of a libertarian but favor a strong border because the vast majority of the people in the world are considerably worse, genetically, than the people already here, but I don't favor a wall because it won't work, but do favor controlled and not much immigration maintained thru employment laws, and perhaps the inhumane treatment of invaders, er, migrants, e.g. put them on a plane and drop them in the middle of some random desert in Mexico, without supplies or assistance, even if they came from China. Kids too, then they'll quit using them as pawns. If Mexico doesn't like it, that's tough because they can't do anything about it.
How much more prevalent do you think that [PC/SJW mindset] mindset will be once the country is less than half white?
Probably less so, actually. It's white people who are obsessed with demonstrating that they're not racists and, in some areas (academia), kowtowing to every stupid complaint from blacks. But just about everything else will be worse and more corrupt, as it is in the places the invaders are escaping from because those places are shitholes because of their inhabitants.
I guess I don't need any more coffee...
About shooting migrants crossing the border....
When I say we should set up belt fed machine guns along the border and shoot anyone crossing it at other than a legal crossing point- I'm not joking. That's exactly what we should be doing. It's the traditional and legal way for any nation to deal with invaders. Definition of invader is- someone entering your country without permission.
@Michael K:
So, why are you hysterical that Trump will get us into a war with them? Probably the Pat Buchanan version of anti-Israel hysteria.
Well, for starters I am not hysterical. Iraq was also a weak and impoverished country, so obviously getting into a war with them was nothing to worry about right?
Probably the Pat Buchanan version of anti-Israel hysteria.
Sure, it's all because I hate Israel. It has nothing to do with not seeing my fellow countrymen cut down in stupid military adventurism. Must be the same reason I opposed the Libyan War. Israel. Or something.
I have to say I find it pretty rich that I opposed the Iraq War in 2002 on the premise that the country would fall apart into sectarian strife. and yet Iraq War cheerleaders keep telling me how cuckoo my foreign policy ideas are. The fact that the last 20 years has proven me totally right doesn't seem to impress them.
@Fernandistein:
I'm **pretty sure** Farmer is not an "establishment libertarian", which I'm taking to mean the open-borders types at Reason.com
You are correct. I used to enjoy Reason when Virginia Postrel was editing but started losing interest when Nick Gillespie. Their open borders fanaticism is loathsome.
Probably less so, actually.
Perhaps, but I don't see having the demographics of Brazil as a great step forward in American race relations.
No it had nothing to do with the people who ran the machinery to keep the Shia and the Kurds down, for 35-40 years sought to keep their place. That Iran and Syria sought to block any action against them naw.
Before Ryan left, after the mid terms, I expected immigration reform. McCain was gone, so a lot of GOP stuff could have been done.
My Guess was Trump also thought Ryan would deliver.
And nothing happened.
Good news is Trump does learn.
The amount of hidden Trump hatred by the GOPe, which Ryan is a poster boy of, just amazes me.
My guess was much of the GOPe thought the Mueller report would take Trump down, or at least continue to hobble his administration till the 2020 election, where Trump would lose. Or impeachment would happen. Or Trump would be forced to resign. It’s only after the Mueller report came out, that the fence sitters, Senate Majority Leader McConnell, got more onboard the Trump train. The use by Democrats for two years of required debate time hobbled the Senate nominations of administration people, and judges.
Somebody else who doesn't agree with Farmer.
And yet, over his first two years, he has enjoyed remarkable political, diplomatic, policy and leadership success. I personally don’t care for his style of management and governance, but I think there is a case to be made that he has been a great president.
When making the case for Trump, you must start in a defensive hole.
Pretty good column by a GOP stalwart. Unlike Farmer.
I am of course a broken record, but as such I am forced to play that track again...
Your fundamental policy desiderata will not be achievable without a replacement of your leadership class. This is not just your politicians, as they are just part of the public face of the "elite" that Trump talks about, millions of people.
Trump is therefore an episode, a singular reaction by the masses against their "elite". This is not sufficient, and it is absurd to blame Trump for it. Its a twist on the story of King Canute. Instead of his courtiers flattering him by claiming he could stop the tides, it is the peasantry blaming him because he cannot. You will get nowhere without something much greater. That greater thing is something to fear.
Trump might have started that greater thing. This is a matter of hearts and minds, of society and culture, that is upstream of politics and policy. Or this may be, also, insufficient. In any case this too is a ridiculously excessive expectation to place on one man. You elected a President, not a God.
Anyway, you will very soon be rid of one foreigner at least.
Your perspective will be missed buwaya it's similar to the senior Montes Bradley who I met in south florida.
Whatever else about Brazil, their race relations situation is better than that of the US, as far as socio-cultural strife goes. This is much less about the actual demographic structure than about how the society perceives it.
Among other things, it does not affect how Brazil perceives itself. Brazil does not hate itself, as a society and a polity, as the US does.
It does not get into the practical consequences of the demography, the rate and state of economic development and personal-communal discipline.
Fernandistein @9:30 AM: I like the way you think, man!
Sound like you might be a libertarian, with a reactionary inside struggling to get out. We all get there eventually, if we live long enough and stay off the psychoactives.
What do I mean by a reactionary? Some examples:
Conservatives think parents should have a choice of schools, and that the State should subsidize whatever choice they make just as they do the public schools.
Reactionaries think we should bring back workhouses for youngsters who cannot be, or do not wish to be, educated. (Of course, we would call them something nicer like "Vocational Opportunity Development Centers" or such.)
Conservatives think people should have to show ID to vote. Reactionaries think we should repeal the 19th Amendment.
Conservatives think potential immigrants from Muslim countries should be carefully vetted. Reactionaries think we should offer Muslims already in the country $5000 a head to leave and never come back.
Many other examples come to mind, of course.
But we see a similar circumstance with bolsanaro, who prevailed after a decade of fundamental transformation.
@Michael K:
Pretty good column by a GOP stalwart. Unlike Farmer.
You're certainly right I am not a GOP stalwart. I'm to the right of the GOP. But if you want to hitch your wagon to Bush II and McCain, go right ahead.
Also, follow your link, press Ctrl F, and type in "immigration." Spoiler alert: zero hits.
"Reactionaries think we should offer Muslims already in the country $5000 a head to leave and never come back."
Offer? Fuck that. Order.
Two words, Althouse: Jerrold Nadler.
"Holding Trump's feet to the fire on immigration is not giving up. The people who ignore or make excuses for his failures are better candidates for that charge."
In two years, he's changed the conversation markedly. I'd hardly call that a failure. Historically, that's just the start of decades of hammering to change minds and laws. You'd think a gay man would be hipper to the nuances of this.
Evidently The Cracker Emcee Refulgent (9:56 AM) is further along the road to enlightenment than I.
All respect.
Farmer, Most have acknowledged Trump is not perfect; while arguing he is better than other choices. But maybe you would let us know who your choice for president would have been, or would be now?
J. Farmer said...
Coulter has been consistent from the beginning. It's Trump who failed to deliver his signature campaign promise.
But didn't Coulter support Sessions, the man who created perhaps the largest impediment to Trump's early progress?
@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:
In two years, he's changed the conversation markedly. I'd hardly call that a failure. Historically, that's just the start of decades of hammering to change minds and laws. You'd think a gay man would be hipper to the nuances of this.
Ha. Great spin doctoring there. So when Trump spent a year saying he was going to build a wall, what he really meant was that he was going to change the conversation. Got it. So what explains the administration's doubling of H2B visas? How exactly does that fit in with the America First agenda?
Boiled down - our choice is total liars V. let-down.
He’s the most talented, natural politician of my life. I used to be really impressed by Bill Clinton, but he doesn’t even come close to Trump. Trump is unrehearsed, he’s totally comfortable in both friendly and hostile crowds. He knows how to work a crowd: he can rile them up, he can make them laugh, he can make them boo, he can make them do almost anything. A stunning political talent.
Of course he’s still pretty inexperienced and often misses or is blind to the strategic considerations. So he makes tons of unforced errors. But man oh man is he at ease when on the mic. Obama perfected a certain style of reading that some people found inspiring. Off script, Obama’s speech was halted and awkward and hokey. Bush was always awkward but likable. Trump is just in another league.
"A wall would be the opposite of what a traditional Libertarian would want."
Exactly. Libertarians want NO Tariffs and NO Borders. The USA would simply exist for other countries and foreigners. They're also against a safety net, social security, medicare, or regulating monopolies.
Libertarians are fucking nuts.
@etbass:
Farmer, Most have acknowledged Trump is not perfect; while arguing he is better than other choices. But maybe you would let us know who your choice for president would have been, or would be now?
Criticizing Trump for failing to deliver on his central campaign promise is not criticizing him for not being "perfect." If all we wanted were tax cuts and an immigration sell out, we could have nominated any of the other 16 candidates. Trump's hard line on immigration was his distinguishing feature. And so far he's failing. And being over backwards to defend or excuse or dismiss Trump's failure is not helping. That mentality is precisely why we have unabated mass immigration regardless of who is in the White House or who controls Congress. Because that's what the Establishment wants. I was hoping Trump was enough of an outsider to start cracking the Establishment, but he's being absorbed by it.
Trump is a genius at connecting with an audience. Too bad he's not better at picking subordinates or pressuring McConnell to help his agenda.
Again I am a broken record.
Trump is a historical "great man". These are random phenomena, that happens when circumstances and the stars align. They have exceptional abilities, often not all obvious to the stable power-structures of their time. One constant among "great men" is that they surprise everyone.
Their effect is to, for a short time, affect the general flow of things, forwards, backwards and sideways. But when they are gone the flow resumes, seeking its old track.
"The greatest risk is demographic. How much do you think a cut to top marginal tax rates will matter when your grandchildren are an ethnic minority in a county your forefathers helped build?"
Sometimes I think that the Democrats pursued what I call "the other 'Southern strategy'." The 'southern strategy' was an appeal to resentment and fear among Southern whites following upon desegregation in order to gain their votes. Meanwhile the Democrats gained the allegiance of black voters by constantly working to improve access: to jobs, to unions, to political positions, to roles in Hollywood and in the media. IBM started with 800 blacks working in jobs there and ten years later after access efforts had 10,000. So you can see how working to improve access would seem a good strategy for blacks to support and the Dems a good party. But time goes on. While the Dems worked on access, both parties began selling out American manufacturing - increasing wages, increasing regulations and then supporting "free trade", meaning moving jobs to Mexico and China. So there came a time when access was gained and it meant jobs for all professionally credentialed blacks but it did not translate into jobs for blacks with high school degrees or less because those jobs had moved out of the country. At this point, around the year 2000, the white and the black working class began to move toward each other in terms of their economic interests. But because of their previous access problem the blacks tended to attribute rising levels of unemployment to white racism. The "other Southern strategy" is the Democrats using this misunderstanding to hold the blacks in the Democratic party and encouraging blacks to direct their anger about their deteriorating economic position onto "the usual suspects", the whites. The white working class had not had the access problem the blacks had had; so the fact of job loss out of the country was much clearer to them as the cause of their deteriorating economic position. And so when Trump began to campaign on that issue - the cause of job loss and the proposal of a cure - the white working class supported him at once. And many minorities also saw the correctness of Trump's position so that they supported him in greater numbers than they supported McCain or Mitt Romney, much to the bewilderment of conventional thinkers, especially supporters of the "other Southern strategy." The true situation is that Trump is appealing to hope and actually creating jobs for all and in this there is the possibility of union; whereas the Establishment (Dems and GOPe) is appealing to fear and resentment because - for some reason - the Establishment wishes jobs to remain overseas, America to become gradually impoverished and Americans to fight each other over scraps. We needn't fear living with minorities in a country our fathers built if we and they as one people led by Trump rebuild this country together.
Trump has tried to do something on immigration but he's been stymied by the Courts and Mitch McConnell/Paul Ryan. He'd better keep up the pressure and not cave - or he's toast.
I can see how this plays against AOC and Warren and Beto. Not sure how it will play against Biden. He doesn't come across like an Arugula eater.
Listening to Paul Ryan and doing Health care first was Trump's biggest error. Why he trusted that backstabbing weasel is beyond me.
@bleh:
He’s the most talented, natural politician of my life.
I agree that he is extremely talented at working a crowd. Real estate has not been Trump's business for decades. His business is branding, and Trump is the brand. But political talents that are not put to any good end are rather meaningless. I mean, whites will become an ethnic minority in their own country, but boy could Trump work a crowd. I mean, so what?
I feel like I have seen him give versions of this riff many times at rallies. Trump was on the motivational speaker circuit for years and he is with comfortable giving basically the same speech to folks who paid to hear a guy they already admired for whatever reason.
Farmer, I take your response to my question to mean you do not have a suggestion as to a better choice than Trump?
but in fact would have tended to liberate and enable them as independent regional hegemon
Iran is a weak and impoverished company. He cannot project any significant military force outside its borders. It is not and is nowhere close to being an "independent regional hegemon."
Does getting bashed in the colon do something to your sense of time? As with the effing wall, Rome wasn't built in a day! And as has been mentioned elsewhere here, PDJT has not exactly been unopposed. As they say in war, the enemy gets a vote.
What, seriously, woukd you have had him do? Ooh, make sure they know it's his priority. You think that was unclear? What should he have done, use the NSA to gather blackmail material on his enemies and frenemies to coerce them to defy their political backers and obey him instead? Or skip straight ahead to the assassinations?
If you're saying that he promised more than he had the power to deliver, okay, maybe he did. The answer to that is to increase his power. The answer of the enemy is to decrease his power. GOPe defections and *Gate travesties have been good medicine for that.
True, it would be nice if the President had better anticipated and countered this. How could he have done that? What one step did you take to help with that? What ideas have you offered besides bloviation? All you do is whine, Are we there yet?
for some reason - the Establishment wishes jobs to remain overseas, America to become gradually impoverished and Americans to fight each other over scraps.
It helps to think of the establishment as a living organism. The reason the whole idea of government exists at all is because of problems, especially problems between people. If there were no problems, government would not be unnecessary. Like any living organism, government wants to grow and perpetuate itself. And human problems are the food it needs to consume to do so.
But in in modern times, there aren't as many dire problems as there once were. In the United States in the early 21st century most of the really bad problems, like starvation, disease, war, genocide, and extreme widespread violence between different groups of people are at an all time low. But government needs problems like those to grow. Fortunately there's still a number of places around the planet that still have these problems. So there's a desire to import them.
It’s going to be the smart ones who figure out that Trump was a fraud from the start. The Cultists and sycophants are in too deep to have any such realization.
But political talents that are not put to any good end are rather meaninglessds
How much evidence of "good" is it going to take? President Trump is moving faster than Reagan. The Trump administration is no more crude and stumbling than any administration in current history. President Trump does his own wet work and refuses to farm it out to select congresspersons, undersecrataries, communication offices of congress persons, or cabinet staffers, or "leaks from sources close to the White House. He does it himself. I know of no politician that has not made political errors. Either there is reasonable deniability, or the media does a blackout. Here President Trump does it himself. For the simple reason he is not a politician and he is not worrying about his legacy, or controlling DC when he leaves office.
It is very refreshing having a President that is honest.
he is with comfortable giving basically the same speech to folks who paid to hear a guy they already admired for whatever reason.
That is what politicians of both parties do. The difference is he actually tries to do something in favor of the voters,
I am unaware that anyone pays to go to a Trump rally. I think you are thinking of Hillary an∂ Bill.
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
It’s going to be the smart ones who figure out that Trump was a fraud from the start.
Says the believer in the Russia hoax.
It’s going to be the smart ones who figure out that Trump was a fraud from the star
The smart ones have been wrong about everything since June of 2015. Keep digging for that pony
As for this,
So what explains the administration's doubling of H2B visas? How exactly does that fit in with the America First agenda?
A smart guy like you should not require an explanation. But you say you do, so here:
-PDJT will require re-election to progress on his issues. This is plain to the meanest understanding.
-Key to the re-election of any President, as well as to the welfare of all Americans, is the state of the economy.
-With current growth and wage pressure, things seem nicely balanced, but in fact the economy is booming to the degree that it is actually hard to find available workers. Many of the unemployed are not ready to work and will take time to bring online. Wage pressure is fine but you need a relief valve.
-The President deemed that H2B visas would expediently provide the relief he deemed necessary. He never promised or intended ZERO immigration. He explicitly promised immigration IN SERVICE TO OUR INTERESTS and ACCORDING TO OUR WILL.
All clear now? Good! Now you can turn your big fat brain to the pesky problem of navigating the treacherous shoals of Constitutional governance to get what we all want. You've been quiet awhile, I thought that was maybe what you've been doing, but it seems instead youve been trampling out the vintage where the grapes of butthurt are stored.
Not sure how it will play against Biden. He doesn't come across like an Arugula eater.
True. Can he deliver a speech without looking like a post stroke patient ?
@etbass:
Farmer, I take your response to my question to mean you do not have a suggestion as to a better choice than Trump?
Obviously I preferred Trump; that's why I voted for him. And why it is all the more dismaying that he is failing on immigration. I always considered the Trump presidency a hail mary pass. But we're most likely not getting a wall, and mass immigration will continue. America is doomed.
Can Inga's mind be changed?
You can't change what doesn't exist.
It’s amusing seeing people miss Farmer's point, even though he is clear enough. Here it is: Trump promised a wall, but has not and will not deliver on it. That constitutes failure. How important is that failure? For Farmer it is a big enough failure to negate smaller successes. Same with troop deployments. You don’t have to agree, but most of you are usually smart enough to at least understand. Not today it seems.
Washington is Hollywood for ugly people--perhaps that's true. But then there are some really ugly people in Hollywood--casting couch, sexual harassment and all that.
But let's get back to "ugly". Some folks are ugly not only on their outward appearance, but on their inner selves. Those folks are "ugly clear to the bone". Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, Maxine Waters, Da Nang Dick Blumenthal--that chicken eating clown from Nashville, etc. Venal, monomaniacal and intellectually corrupt. In some cases they aren't physically ugly--but moral and intellectual ugliness shines right through.
I'll give AOC a pass here for now--she's just nuts and in way over her head.
@Nichevo:
All clear now? Good!
Shorter Nichevo: we need foreign workers to prevent having to raise wages to attract American workers. Just another variation of "jobs Americans won't do" and "crops rotting in the fields."
“It is very refreshing having a President that is honest.”
Deluded Level-highest
when they are gone the flow resumes, seeking its old track.
Yes, it will require a successor or several. I wonder if Tucker Carlson could be a possibility?
wwww said...
I can see how this plays against AOC and Warren and Beto. Not sure how it will play against Biden. He doesn't come across like an Arugula eater.
He comes across as a cross between an arugula eater and a homeless flasher in Central Park.
“It is very refreshing having a President that is honest.”
Deluded Level-highest
Says the Russia hoax believer
Inga has Obamastalgia.
“It’s amusing seeing people miss Farmer's point, even though he is clear enough. Here it is: Trump promised a wall, but has not and will not deliver on it. That constitutes failure. How important is that failure? For Farmer it is a big enough failure to negate smaller successes. Same with troop deployments. You don’t have to agree, but most of you are usually smart enough to at least understand. Not today it seems.”
When it comes to Trump understanding among the Cultists, all understanding flies out the window. It’s as if they all have become demented, or retarded or...something worse
J.Farmer: People like him because he's an avatar in the culture war, and they are completely blind to the fact that Trumpism is in tatters. This is part of the stupid cult of personality that has become endemic to the presidency.
I think you're projecting a bit here. I'd say histrionic announcements like "Trumpism is in tatters" is diagnostic of the same mental state that can manifest in following a "stupid cult of personality". What were you expecting? He's one man, and it's not like he was ever on board with my own paleo-tending views, just not as "off board" as everybody else in the political universe.
E.g., sure, Jared Kushner sucks, but Jared Kushner isn't why "demographic displacement continues unabated". It continues unabated because of its huge (historical, ideological, political) momentum, which increased decade after decade while a sheepish and oblivious American populace, believing their own universalist bullshit, willingly swallowed the CoC/Coca-Cola commercial propaganda, and happily went along with the PTB's purging of the institutions of any opposition to globo-diversitopia-palooza.
You were expecting one president with zero institutional support (and that's the euphemistic way of putting it) to fix, in the space of a couple of years, the mess "we the people" allowed to develop, a state that may very well have already reached the point of no return? And leaving aside here that it was pretty clear from the start that his views on legal immigration were pretty much just as bad as every other pols.
I've never looked to politicians for personal validation.
Looking to them for miracles isn't any better. I'll vote for Trump again, but not because I think (or ever thought) that he represents anything but an inflection point. What that inflection point will come to indicate (maybe nothing) on the long-term map, I don't know. I do know that if there is any meaningful change and realignment in the direction that *I* prefer, I'm probably not even going to live long enough to see the victory. And nobody's ever going to see it, if they're relying on Trump to be a one-man, fast-acting march through the institutions.
I don't think refusing to enjoy entertaining Twitter scuzzings will have any effect on the long-term outcome one way or the other.
There's this thing, where Trump fans and even Trump himself wink and nod at each other, about how smart and prescient they were, to see Trump's successes way before anyone else could.
What bullshit.
I said all along that The Wall was a stupid idea, and that it would never be built. Trump would never get the support of enough Democrats in the Senate to pass it in a budget. Trump himself would never be able to make the persuasive case to a majority of Americans. Even a substantial number of Republicans would see it as a waste of federal funding. And the legal obstacles would be too much.
I, and others who felt the same way, were right. We were right all along and are still right.
Trump isn't a builder; he's not a negotiator; he's not a dealmaker. He has yet to make a single noteworthy deal since he's been President. He did nothing to create a replacement to the Affordable Care Act as he promised, saying that it would be "easy" before he said, "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated." When in fact absolutely everybody who was a serious player on any side of the healthcare debate knew exactly how complicated healthcare was.
Trump isn't a great politician. He's a great play-actor for Fox News.
I don't know Inga - you're pretty cult-like yourself, but on the Maddow-lies democratic side.
Got any words about Hillary's vast bad decision making and institutional corruption, including but not limited to her Private Server while head of the State Dept? and what looks like her re-entry into her never-ending power grab?
Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard:
I think you're projecting a bit here. I'd say histrionic announcements like "Trumpism is in tatters" is diagnostic of the same mental state that can manifest in following a "stupid cult of personality"
It's not histrionic; it's an accurate assessment of its current state, as I described above. Two of the three pillars of Trumpism are currently dead in the water, and one is up in the air. If all I wanted was the GOP Inc agenda, then Trump would be a raging success. But that's not what I wanted, and that's not what Trump campaigned on.
Looking to them for miracles isn't any better
So let me just recap my criticisms that you define as expecting "miracles"
>Not deferring to Ryan/McConnell on the domestic legislative agenda
>Not signing an omnibus bill that neuters any funding for a wall
>Signing an executive order on anchor babies
That's pretty low bar for miracles, considering all were well within Trump's power. I never said that Trump could or would fix everything or solve every problem. My criticisms, repeated throughout on this thread, are specific and measured. So instead of attacking me with strawmen, how about confining yourself to the criticisms I've actually made.
By the way, I love the dichotomy present in this thread. On the one hand, Trump is the greatest politician in living memory and a master strategist, and on the other, it was foolish of me to expect he could outmaneuver Congress.
Chuck said...I said all along that The Wall was a stupid idea
And we said that you were the most stupid idea ever conceived. Now tell us again how Trump could never win Michigan in 2016. Or ever reach 1,237. Or the thousands of bone-headed things you have said.
@Ken B:
It’s amusing seeing people miss Farmer's point, even though he is clear enough. Here it is: Trump promised a wall, but has not and will not deliver on it. That constitutes failure. How important is that failure? For Farmer it is a big enough failure to negate smaller successes. Same with troop deployments. You don’t have to agree, but most of you are usually smart enough to at least understand. Not today it seems.
Thank you for that. A very concise summation of my view. Sometimes, concision is not my strong suit. Most of the responses I've gotten actually perfectly prove the point I was making in my very first comment. Any presidency is going to be a mixed bag. Trump has done things I like and things I don't like. I just happen to think that the things I don't like are more important.
Most hilariously, I was actually accused of having Trump Derangement Syndrome, even though I've supported Trump since the Mexican rapist speech and my criticisms have mostly been from the right of Trump. I have said repeatedly for the last two years that I consider immigration the most important issue, that I considered Trump a hail mary pass, and that I largely think America is doomed. To me, an optimistic conservative is an oxymoron.
Farmer there two things for sure: no Democrat running for president or for any position at any level of government is largely aligned with your views. Second Trump flaws and all is the best you're going to get from the GOP and if you (we) are lucky his reelection will result in the regaining of the House with more members aligned to Trump's campaign promises and the same for the Senate. That is the best reality based outcome you can hope for. We are electing a President, not a term limited dictator.
Of all the stupid dogma supported by the Establishment (e.g. race is just a social construct, there are infinite genders, etc.) none is stupider than "walls don't work." So that's why the Hollywood glitterati build them around their mansions and why people pay premiums to live in gated communities. Because of how ineffectual they are.
Durbin Cuckholster Chuck: "I, and others who felt the same way, were right. We were right all along and are still right."
You, and all the leftists who feel precisely the same way as you because you are political soulmates, have been lying and smearing (and proudly so) since 2015.
But we arent surprised in the slightest. Its just what you lefties do.
Back to your "Online faux Conservative" drawing board Pecan Pie-Boy!
@cubanbob:
no Democrat running for president or for any position at any level of government is largely aligned with your views.
That is true of both parties. I am not someone who is overly fond of partisanship. The DNC and GOP are both establishment parties with about a dime's worth of difference.
Second Trump flaws and all is the best you're going to get from the GOP
That may be true, but it is completely beside the point. I don't need to have an alternative to Trump to criticize what Trump is doing. The two are not logically connected, and my lack of an alternative does not make my criticism of Trump any less accurate.
We are electing a President, not a term limited dictator.
Once again I get the criticism that I am expecting Trump to have dictator-like powers. So Trump had no choice but to toe the Ryan/McConnell line? Trump had no choice but to sign the omnibus bill? Trump couldn't sign an executive order on anchor babies? Please identity a criticism I have made of Trump that would require him to have dictator-like power.
You dipshits are going to get us all back on double secret Althouse probation.
Didn't the president announce that he intended to withdraw troops from Syria, and wasn't that followed by a rare bipartisan freakout with McConnell joining Schumer in decrying removal of American troops from combat zones. Rand Paul was the only politician who supported Trump there.
I seem to remember the president announcing that he would put military troops to guard the border, and again he was treated to attacks from all sides. Two years ago the president televised a meeting with leaders of both parties in the oval office about immigration. The meeting was televised partly to refute what at the time were clarion calls to use the 25th amendment to remove the president from office because he was dangerously deranged...lulz at Democrat party members making that claim... But you might recall the president running that meeting like a boss, and afterward chickenshit Durbin cried "shithole" and that was the end of immigration reform for that year because guys like J Farmer wept that America had a president that would say shithole, instead of telling Durbin and company Who gives a fuck? Close the fucking border!
The problem plainly is that the president is looking to the people to back him up against the politicians, and feckless cunts like J Farmer would rather pretend that Trump is the problem. No, you are the problem, douchebag. Demand that he build the wall. Organize protests. Activate against Democrats and Republicans like Romney, Ryan and McCain. Show the country that you are committed to helping the president achieve his goal of immigration that benefits our nation.
Whats your alternative to Trump Farmer?
In all the sturm und drang I noticed you never offered one.
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest you dont have any.
Nancy Boy Chuck gets upset if anybody throws any shade in the direction of Pelosi! "Nobody puts baby in a corner!"
I dont need to ask about LLR Chuck's alternative. In 2020, as in 2016 he will very much be "With Her".
But he's happy to say otherwise on blogs....while linking continuously to insane lefty sources and sites.
Dimes worth of Diff between Democratics and the GOP?
I don't think that's accurate. On the institutional D-left, we are dealing with full-on systemic corruption. And a cover up of that corruption made possible by the hack press and an entire shit-show to cover their tracks.
See here.
That constitutes failure. How important is that failure? For Farmer it is a big enough failure to negate smaller successes.
This reminds me of the episode of Gomer Pyle where he throws back a full house because, as he tells Sgt Carter, “It’s not the best and I want the best!”
Hillary would have done better? Where is your proof that Cruze, who can crack a camera lens just by looking its way could have won? Or anybody else. Trump did the most important thing, he kept Hillary from winning. A reasonably intelligent person should be able to see that.
Nobody: "Nancy Boy Chuck gets upset if anybody throws any shade in the direction of Pelosi!"
2 things really seem to set Chuck off on racist and child-attacking tears:
1) Any criticism, regardless of how muted, directed at any democrat/leftist anywhere or their policies at any time
2) Conservatives with solid military records who are effective at opposing democrats and lefty policies (Chuck really hates those people)
For instance, much of Chucks criticism of the Trump rally in the Panhandle of Florida is driven by Chucks knowledge that there is a very large military presence there and they love Trump.
That alone is enough to drive Chuck to racist attacks against African American Cabinet members.
It’s as if they all have become demented, or retarded or...something worse
Nobody knows what Mueller knows! You were right, of course, I did know what Mueller knew because he had already leaked everything he had!
If I say I'm going to lose 20 pounds but have only lost 10 does that make me a failure?
Trump hasn't gotten the wall yet, but not for lack of trying. He may have had a steeper political learning curve than we expected. Personally I think a wall will be a huge help. It's okay to criticize his progress so far, but I think it is not "unfair" but mistaken to call it a failure by a longshot. Others have pointed out the opposition that he's been dealing with.
Calling Trump -- what was it? - a play-actor for Fox News is just stupid. Why does every critic bring Fox into it?
Equally stupid is saying that Trump is playing 3D chess while the rest of the world is playing checkers. Come on now. He's not. Not even close.
I am invested in him, and have liked the progress that I've seen. I'm not as immersed as many of you, and don't know all the ins and outs of H2B visa quantities and all that. And foreign trade? My guess is 15-20 people in the whole country might be able to make a decent guess how that will turn out.
But he is moving forward on the issues I value, and fighting back against those "ugly" people mentioned previously. You know the ones, who are ugly liars through and through. We have needed that for some time.
It's nice to have you back, J. Farmer. I don't agree with all you say, but you frame an argument nicely, and have added to the dialogue. And without the sh*tty name-calling.
So Trump had no choice but to toe the Ryan/McConnell line? Trump had no choice but to sign the omnibus bill?
Its interesting to see those who imagine a perfect solution but reject attempts that fail through no fault of the one attempting.
Maybe he hoped that Ryan would act as he had promised when running for office.
I assume that nearly all the GOPe in Congress assumed that Trump would somehow be ousted and they could return to the status quo ante.
I expect that only after 2020 will he have Congress that will cooperate. If not, we are screwed.
If Trump wasn't running in 2020 - Who would you like to see fill the void?
J Farmer?
I'm really curious.
Farmer, we are still waiting for your alternatives.
@Michael Fitzgerald:
and afterward chickenshit Durbin cried "shithole" and that was the end of immigration reform for that year because guys like J Farmer wept that America had a president that would say shithole, instead of telling Durbin and company Who gives a fuck? Close the fucking border
Small tip: if you want to criticize me, know what the hell you're talking about. I never carried a wit about the "shithole" comment, and I'm to Trump's right on immigration you fucking moron.
The problem plainly is that the president is looking to the people to back him up against the politicians, and feckless cunts like J Farmer would rather pretend that Trump is the problem.
How dare I blame Trump for the decisions he made. So Trump had no choice to defer to Ryan/McConnell? Trump had no choice but to sign the omnibus bill? Trump couldn't sign an executive order on anchor babies? So if I can't blame Trump for this, who is to blame? I've leveled these criticisms about half a dozen times and the great Trump defenders have not defended them. Try being a citizen instead of a sycophant.
@nob490:
If I say I'm going to lose 20 pounds but have only lost 10 does that make me a failure?
Yes
"Well for starters, Trump could have made it known that it was priority one on his domestic agenda and put pressure on Congress to support the wall. I am not informed enough on the issue one way or another, but I have read arguments that Trump could build the wall under his commander-in-chief power. Again, I don't actually know how viable that argument is, but I have heard it."
This sounds like a whole lot of nothing to me.
@Drago:
Farmer, we are still waiting for your alternatives.
I've addressed this logical fallacy already, but I'll do it again. Not having an alternative to Trump has no logical connection to the criticisms I've made of his behavior. If anything, it makes them more salient.
J. Farmer
re: weight loss
Really?
Perhaps I should clarify: What if I'm still working towards 20 as my goal? And continuing my program?
@Michael K:
Maybe he hoped that Ryan would act as he had promised when running for office.
That would require Trump to be a complete moron. His entire campaign was premised on an opposition to Ryanism. See How Paul Ryan Turned Trump into Jeb Bush for a longer explanation.
“That would require Trump to be a complete moron.”
Right.
nob490:
Perhaps I should clarify: What if I'm still working towards 20 as my goal? And continuing my program?
No, I got your point, I just think it is foolishly naive. Trump couldn't get the wall in the first half of his presidency but he's going to get it in the second half, with the House now controlled by the Democrats?
Does anyone want to defend Trump's decision to waste his political capital championing the Paul Ryan agenda when his own campaign was in large part a repudiation of Ryanism?
I gotta admire the balls of a poster who has been so wrong about the election, and then about the Mueller report calling other people stupid.
@Farmer
I'm not sure what your position on immigration is exactly. Is it mainly the lack of assimilation you are railing against, or just the population increase? I'm assuming skin color isn't the problem.
If the former I'd say your criticism is better leveled at identity politics, and Trump and his bombast is the best minimal shot at changing that imo. If the latter consider that we as a species have made the decision that a growth economy is how we do it, and our birthrate is below replacement.
I get that Trump hasn't achieved his main promises in regards to immigration, but my thoughts are that if you elect an outsider to change governmental structures he is going to be hampered by the fact that he is an outsider by the nature of the game. If you elect an insider you are not likely to get someone willing enough to effect radical change.
You can legitimately rail against Trump for many things, but I look at it more though the lens of what other options are there.
Maybe we could transplant Trump's balls onto Romney.
@Known Unknown:
This sounds like a whole lot of nothing to me.
Right. Presidents have no ability to influence Congress. Ask LBJ.
So does that mean you think Trump's support for Paul Ryan's plan was the right decision. Once again, does anybody want to defend that? Or are we just going to assert that any failure of Trump isn't his fault?
There is one sure and certain way to get the Wall built.
Release studies that purport to show illegal immigrants favor the Republicans.
Naive maybe, but my indications are he's moving forward. Again, I don't have inside knowledge on actual building, or negotiations, but that's how it seems to me.
And Ryan? What a disappointment he ever was. Perhaps that was part of the learning curve. Figuring out how DC actually works.
Personally I think Ryan had a lot of us fooled for too long.
I'm willing to not call it a failure, yet.
@pacwest:
I'm not sure what your position on immigration is exactly. Is it mainly the lack of assimilation you are railing against, or just the population increase? I'm assuming skin color isn't the problem.
I'm afraid you've assumed incorrectly. "Skin color" is probably too crude a phrasing, but I am an ethno-nationalist and believe that America should retain its European ethnic core. Look at the best functioning, highest standard of living places on Earth. They are largely ethnically homogenous. Multiethnic, multiracial, multilingual societies are inherently unstable. In short, "diversity is our strength" is total bullshit.
OT: White House Calls Red Sox "Red Socks" in welcoming them.
LOL. Also, looks like the "players of color" are boycotting the white house visit but some Cuban's and all the white players are going. The Black American pitchers tweeted that "The white sox" were going to to the white house. LOL.
I think Trump should just stop inviting pro sports teams. Let THEM ask for a visit.
@Big Mike:
There is one sure and certain way to get the Wall built.
Release studies that purport to show illegal immigrants favor the Republicans.
Ha. They tried that once. Remember the whole Hispanics are natural Republicans whopper? Ana Navarro's very existence on the public stage is reason enough to loathe Jeb! She's the new token loudmouth Latina.
J.Farmer: It's not histrionic; it's an accurate assessment of its current state, as I described above. Two of the three pillars of Trumpism are currently dead in the water, and one is up in the air. If all I wanted was the GOP Inc agenda, then Trump would be a raging success. But that's not what I wanted, and that's not what Trump campaigned on.
I see you've decided to join in today's exercise of entirely missing other posters' points.
That's pretty low bar for miracles, considering all were well within Trump's power. I never said that Trump could or would fix everything or solve every problem. My criticisms, repeated throughout on this thread, are specific and measured.
I think if you re-read your comments here you will find at least one complaint that was rather more expansive than "specific and measured". I made a specific and measured criticism of that one.
So instead of attacking me with strawmen, how about confining yourself to the criticisms I've actually made.
Probably because I'm not in disagreement with any of the specific criticisms you've made of Trump's policy failures. From my point of view, too, they were failures. I'm saying that I find your reaction to those failures overwrought, and outlined why I thought so.
Btw, the term "strawman" doesn't apply to the type of criticism I'm applying to you here. Though I suggest that one could label as strawmen your attacks on me as somebody denying and defending Trump's policy failures.
By the way, I love the dichotomy present in this thread. On the one hand, Trump is the greatest politician in living memory and a master strategist, and on the other, it was foolish of me to expect he could outmaneuver Congress.
Yeah, that's a reasonable response to a comment of mine, because I'm totally on record here praising Trump as the greatest of politicians and a master strategist.
I think you're among the interesting and thoughtful posters here, and that's a woefully under-filled niche in these parts. So I think you should leave to the Ingas and Chucks among us this anathematizing as mindless big-man worshipping cultists everyone and anyone who disagrees with your assessments . They're professionals at the task, and they've got it covered. Just a suggestion.
By the way, on the wall I seem to be getting one of two responses:
1) It was naive to think he could get the wall built given the amount of opposition he faced. By the way, was anyone here saying this during the campaign?
2) I shouldn't call it a failure because his term is not over yet.
Exactly in what reality is Trump more likely to get the wall built during the second half of his presidency than the first?
It’s not helping immigrants to have people like Omar. She’s really ungrateful. Assimilation takes awhile. Some individuals are better than others but it usually takes a generation (or more).
But as more immigrants like Omar start adopting the Left claptrap, it’s going to be a disaster. Combine that with Islam, and you know the country is doomed.
And we have enough Chinese in this country. Quit handing out strident visas to China and Saudi Arabia. And quit handing out H1B visas.
We should require these HIB visa people to serve in combat in Afghanistan.
Exactly in what reality is Trump more likely to get the wall built during the second half of his presidency than the first?
Russia hoax is over and discredited. GOP retakes the House. GOP realizes he is here to stay and resisting will not help re-election.
You must remember the job of Congress is to get elected and re-elected. Legislation is way below that in priorities.
J Farmer: "I've addressed this logical fallacy already, but I'll do it again. Not having an alternative to Trump has no logical connection to the criticisms I've made of his behavior. If anything, it makes them more salient."
Saliency aside, i am not asserting your lack of proffered alternatives negates your criticism.
I am moving from your observations/Judgement to operations:
So, I understand your complaints about Trump...now what?
J. Farmer said...
By the way, on the wall I seem to be getting one of two responses:
1) It was naive to think he could get the wall built given the amount of opposition he faced. By the way, was anyone here saying this during the campaign?
2) I shouldn't call it a failure because his term is not over yet.
Exactly in what reality is Trump more likely to get the wall built during the second half of his presidency than the first?
Trump has not built a wall yet. I agree that sucks.
Now you have to look at why.
1. Do you think Trump is acting in bad faith?
2. Do you think Trump is incompetent and could have succeeded somehow but didn't?
3. Do you think the forces arrayed against Trump in DC have been built up over a period of decades if not centuries and that every major political institution including the bureaucracy, media, both major political parties, the educational system etc. has been infested by globalist traitors and there are many battles that need to be won to bring our country back?
I believe we were all somewhat naive.
Right now we all have 2 choices.
First is we fight on with the imperfect forces we have.
Second option is we curl up in a whiny ball and bitch about Trump and the castigate the people who continue to fight.
@J Farmer d-bag, you're unhappy because Trump has not been dictatorial, has not been a tyrant, has not legislated by pen and phone. That televised meeting showed what the president is dealing with, the kind of underhanded opposition and treacherous support he's faced. And it's not like everything has been hunky-dory besides the assault on the border. On top of everything else that the president of the United States oversees every minute of every day, this president has had to defend himself against an unprecedented treason. And despite all that, there has been historic economic recovery. So, don't kiss my ass, you beat-off putz, kiss his ass. Kiss Donald Trump's big fat red, white and blue ass!
Drago said...
Nobody: "Nancy Boy Chuck gets upset if anybody throws any shade in the direction of Pelosi!"
2 things really seem to set Chuck off on racist and child-attacking tears:
1) Any criticism, regardless of how muted, directed at any democrat/leftist anywhere or their policies at any time
2) Conservatives with solid military records who are effective at opposing democrats and lefty policies (Chuck really hates those people)
For instance, much of Chucks criticism of the Trump rally in the Panhandle of Florida is driven by Chucks knowledge that there is a very large military presence there and they love Trump.
That alone is enough to drive Chuck to racist attacks against African American Cabinet members.
I think the Trump Administration is immensely poorer, for having lost the wisdom and judgment of:
General Jim Mattis
General John Kelly
General H.R. McMaster
General Ricky Waddell
General Keith Kellogg
Army Reserve Captain Jeff Sessions
Marine Corps Captain Rober Mueller
Among many others.
Michael K said...
Russia hoax is over and discredited. GOP retakes the House. GOP realizes he is here to stay and resisting will not help re-election.
You must remember the job of Congress is to get elected and re-elected. Legislation is way below that in priorities.
That is not their job.
I am sure Paul Ryan made more in his first year out of office doing very little than he did in his years of office.
Getting re-elected is not their primary concern. Keeping the demographic devolution of our country moving forward is.
@Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard:
I see you've decided to join in today's exercise of entirely missing other posters' points.
If I have misread you, I apologize. But I don't see how it's missing the point. I quoted what you wrote and then gave you my response. You described my description of "Trumpism in tatters" as histrionic, and I wrote why I didn't believe it was histrionic. What point did I miss?
I'm saying that I find your reaction to those failures overwrought
Can you quote what I said that you find "overwrought."
Btw, the term "strawman" doesn't apply to the type of criticism I'm applying to you here
You said that I was "expecting one president with zero institutional support (and that's the euphemistic way of putting it) to fix, in the space of a couple of years, the mess "we the people" allowed to develop, a state that may very well have already reached the point of no return?" That is the strawman I was referring to. I never expected that and never said that I expected it.
Yeah, that's a reasonable response to a comment of mine, because I'm totally on record here praising Trump as the greatest of politicians and a master strategist.
If you reread the sentence, you will see that I referenced "this thread." That is, all of the comments. It was not in response to anything you said or anything you believe. I should have written it in a separate comment in retrospect.
So I think you should leave to the Ingas and Chucks among us this anathematizing as mindless big-man worshipping cultists everyone and anyone who disagrees with your assessments .
I think you've misconstrued my comment about a cult of personality. I wrote that it was "endemic to the presidency." That is, it is not just a Trump or Trump supporter thing. The presidency combines two roles--head of state and head of government--into a single executive. I've never thought this was a good idea. A head of government is inherently political, and a head of state should be outside politics.
Also, I never described "everyone and anyone who disagrees with" my assessments as "big-man worshiping cultists." That's another strawman. But that is a certainly an accurate description of some of Trump's supporters. To put it another way, he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, and they'd still vote for him.
By declaring any question about what the point is of your anti-Trump rants fallacious, one begins to wonder if you are just engaging in pointless Chuckesque whingeing.
Mattis is a good guy. But he was also on the board of Theranos. He got fooled by a millennial girl. Maybe his wisdom and judgment are t that great.
I remember when McCain used to slobber on about General Petraeus. Another decent enough guy with very poor judgment.
As for Mueller, he didn’t do anything about Wall Street and fucked up the anthrax investigation. Trump could be a Russian spy and Muelker and his crack squad would be the last people to find that out. They are douchebags.
But that is a certainly an accurate description of some of Trump's supporters. To put it another way, he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, and they'd still vote for him.
It’s always the thoughts you project into other people’s heads that bother you the most about them, isn’t it?
Trump could send Jared and Ivanka back to New York. They are worthless advisors of immigration is a priority. Kushner and his wife are globalist liberals.
J.Farmer doth protest too much,methinks.
@Michael Fitzgerald:
@J Farmer d-bag, you're unhappy because Trump has not been dictatorial, has not been a tyrant, has not legislated by pen and phone.
Right. Not championing the Paul Ryan agenda would have been dictatorial. Vetoing an omnibus bill would have made him a tyrant. The executive order regarding anchor babies that the administration itself floated didn't happen because...dictator or something or another. Again, if you think Trump was right to make these decisions, please defend them instead of trying to convince yourself that Trump had no choice.
So, don't kiss my ass, you beat-off putz, kiss his ass. Kiss Donald Trump's big fat red, white and blue ass!
Thank you for proving my point about Trump fanboys. Spoken like a true subject. I prefer being a citizen.
J Farmer,
I'm not discounting your criticisms. I agree with most of them to some extent.
I am honestly curious is you have a alternate candidate in mind. It can be anyone.
Someone CAN primary Trump. It's not a logical fallacy. It's how politics works.
@Nobody:
By declaring any question about what the point is of your anti-Trump rants fallacious, one begins to wonder if you are just engaging in pointless Chuckesque whingeing.
So a criticism of specific actions regarding immigration is an "anti-Trump" rant. I've said for years that I consider immigration the most important issue and immigration was the centerpiece of his campaign, but criticizing his immigration policy is "pointless Chuckesque whingeing." Gotcha.
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