Trump to the crowd: You were "the invisible people." And then:
You're the smartest... the hardest working... great talent. You're the best-looking people, that's for sure. You ever see? I joke about this, but it's really not joking. They call themselves 'the elite.' You ever see 'the elite'? This is 'the elite.' They're not elite. You're elite.... Let's let them be elite, but we're the super-elite. There's not even a contest. Not even a contest. I always laugh when I hear 'the elite,' and then you see this guy. He's not elite. Not in my book, he's not.ADDED: Makes me think of the old saying: "Washington is Hollywood for ugly people."
Posts
401 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 401 Newer› Newest»Sen Tom Cotton is good on immigration. He’s smart and disciplined. Trump should listen to him and not Jared.
@Otto:
J.Farmer doth protest too much,methinks.
So which of my three criticisms do you take exception with?
The difference between Chuck and J Farmer is that Chuck WANTS to cut Trump off at the knees. By any means necessary, including all the corrupt mud flinging by the corrupt left.
J Farmer is authentically disappointed in Trump.
Durbin Cuckholster Chuck: "I think the Trump Administration is immensely poorer, for having lost the wisdom and judgment of:...."
LOL
No you dont.
"J Farmer is authentically disappointed in Trump."
Thats fine.
Now what?...
@BleachBit-and-Hammers:
J Farmer,
I'm not discounting your criticisms. I agree with most of them to some extent.
I am honestly curious is you have a alternate candidate in mind. It can be anyone.
I don't actually have anybody. Kris Kobach is good on immigration and should have gotten a job in the Trump administration, but he's pretty hopeless in electoral politics. I cast my first vote for President for Pat Buchanan in 2000. I was hoping Trump's win would open up space for more Trumpist candidates, but given that Trump fell ass backwards into it, he didn't really do much to nurture it. Instead, he has largely been absorbed by the Establishment blob. Trump's the commander-in-chief and he can't even get the troops out of Syria.
OK - I'll go first. I'd prefer a Ted Cruz of a Rand Paul.
I know Ted is a bit arrogant - but who the hell cares? They ARE ALL arrogant. Esp on the corrupt left. *cough* Adam Schit(D)
Drago said...
"J Farmer is authentically disappointed in Trump."
Thats fine.
Now what?...
...
It seems strange to talk about "Trumpism" and not mention jobs.
I would have said he ran on Jobs, America, and Immigration -- and that he's been pretty good on all three.
“J Farmer is authentically disappointed in Trump."
If Farmer is, then it stands to reason that hundreds of thousands more feel the same way. Buyer’s remorse.
@Drago:
Thats fine.
Now what?...
I had no idea that every criticism written here had to be followed by a practical solution. I have no solution. What does that have to do with the veracity of my criticism?
Inga - buyers remorse is part of politics. Isn't Maddow on?
"Makes me think of the old saying: "Washington is Hollywood for ugly people.""
I think of this quote nearly every time the media calls someone in politics attractive. "On some scale of attractiveness, I guess that's true."
Leftists are loyal to corruption. Why Hillary will probably be your nominee again.
Well, he got snookered by Ryan, that’s for sure.
Bimbo, isn’t Sesame Street on? That big orange bird is calling your name.
I have to admit it is a nice bonus when someone in politics with my interests at heart (freedom and liberty) is good looking.
Who is the most physically attractive Dem primary candidate?
Gabbard among the women and Booker among the men?
“Leftists are loyal to corruption.”
Says a Trump Cultist, oh that is funny as hell.
I see Chuck wants HR McMaster back who wants more war. The US population is war weary. Imagine if it was 1962 and we were still fighting the Japanese.
Inga - you offer nothing of substance. Why don't you FOAD. Go contribute to the Hillary campaign. and FOAD again.
Isn't Maddow on?
Maddow’s always on in her head. It’s an amazing power Cash Cow Maddow as, that garners her 1.6 thousand thousand dollars per annum. Denial is the longest river in the world, and Racheal lives off the swimmers in it.
"In short, "diversity is our strength" is total bullshit."
Couldn't agree with you more on that. My concerns lie in the economic and civility realms. The civility aspect overlaps with your concerns, and I think it is a woefully underestimated problem. Whenever I see a notice, ad, or any item posted in two languages I cringe. And I think that skin color has little to do with it. I think ethics, not ethnicity, is the problem, and that they are seperable.
But back to your criticism of Trump. I'm still willing to wait it out. Although the merit based system of immigration is not a new idea I haven't seen anyone else champion it as strongly as Trump. I'd peg the chances of success/failure at 50/50 right now. And a part of that is the pushback against PC. And yes, I think the odds would be much worse with someone else. I remember telling my wife during the debates that there was no chance in hell he would ever get the wall built. I'm rethinking that. I guess that puts me in Trump sycophant territory? *"The Wall" is shorthand for total immigration reform to me. The border wall alone will only put a dent in the problem. Step one - bottleneck the illegal flow across the southern border. Trump has achieved that in part.
“I have to admit it is a nice bonus when someone in politics with my interests at heart (freedom and liberty) is good looking.”
She lusts after Trump’s belly rolls and fat ass.
Inga - How many times have you stated in the past that Peter Strozk is a hero?
You are a corruption supporter. A leftwing cultist of the highest order.
@clint:
It seems strange to talk about "Trumpism" and not mention jobs.
I disagree. Every candidate runs on jobs. The point about Trumpism was that it was a break from traditional GOP platforms like "free" trade, comprehensive immigration reform (i.e. immigration sellout), and hawkish foreign interventionism.
Says a Trump Cultist, oh that is funny as hell
Oh, I think there are people here who are members of a cult based on Trump, that’s for sure! Comet Hillary will get him! No? Well we made a mistake, we always meant Comet Mueller-Comey! Ooops, we just misread the goat entrails, but its clear now that it will be Comet Tax Returns that will restore Hillary to her rightful throne!
@BleachBit-and-Hammers:
I have to admit it is a nice bonus when someone in politics with my interests at heart (freedom and liberty) is good looking.
Perhaps I am misreading you but do you actually find Trump good looking?
Also, I never described "everyone and anyone who disagrees with" my assessments as "big-man worshiping cultists." That's another strawman. But that is a certainly an accurate description of some of Trump's supporters. To put it another way, he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, and they'd still vote for him.
"I've never described culty Trumpists as culty Trumpists!" he implored.
SMH. I'm not unsympathetic to your argument, but you've gone full Chuck here.
Seriously. We just hanged Benedict Arnold from the rafters, you walk in and say "Yah but Benny did have a few good points..." and you're shocked by the response?
You're either pulling a Moby or unaware that you've climbed on a table to screech at us.
Wan't to start over? (and somebody pull Benny down?)
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
OK - I'll go first. I'd prefer a Ted Cruz of a Rand Paul.
I know Ted is a bit arrogant - but who the hell cares? They ARE ALL arrogant. Esp on the corrupt left. *cough* Adam Schit(D)
It is laughable you think either of those two would fair better than Trump.
Ted Cruz will be indicted for something and he wont have the political ability to get out of it. The American people would turn against him instantly because he is uniquely hateable. He would be driven from office and democrats would win the next decade of elections. I agree with him on most things and I think he is a slimy lawyer wearing reptile skin.
I really like Rand Paul. Nice guy. Good Doctor. Agree with him more than probably all other politicians in DC. But Rand Paul is a pussy. Flat out. He just does not have what it takes to win this fight.
If you want to talk about naive this is the epitome of naive thinking. Trump is pretty literally taking on the world right now.
J. Farmer said...
@Drago:
Thats fine.
Now what?...
I had no idea that every criticism written here had to be followed by a practical solution. I have no solution. What does that have to do with the veracity of my criticism?
As Inga has inadvertently pointed out, it means you are part of the problem.
Perhaps I am misreading you but do you actually find Trump good looking?
Yes, you are misreading me. I'm NOT talking about Trump AT ALL.
I'm talking in the general sense - and also bouncing of the original point of this post.
@mccullough:
Who is the most physically attractive Dem primary candidate?
Gabbard among the women and Booker among the men?
Agree on Gabbard. Not sure on the men. Beto is pretty good looking. Booker does baldness really well. Buttigieg is a dweeb. It's always disconcerting when you see a gay male couple and can't figure out whose the top and who's the bottom. Though I'm guessing Buttigieg is the top. Unless his partner is a power bottom.
I think Trump is so-so in the looks dept. He could use some time in the gym.
He was good looking when he was younger.
I actually think Biden is better looking.
Yes, you are misreading me. I'm NOT talking about Trump AT ALL.
I'm talking in the general sense - and also bouncing of the original point of this post.
Thank god :D
think Trump is so-so in the looks dept. He could use some time in the gym.
He was good looking when he was younger.
I agree he wasn't bad looking when he was younger, but hair styling seems to have been a lifelong struggle.
J Farmer (updated)
Perhaps I am misreading you but do you actually find Trump good looking?
Yes, you are misreading me. I'm NOT talking about Trump AT ALL.
I'm talking in the general sense about Anyone in politics - and also bouncing of the original point of this post.
Trump should go punk rock with his hair. Then shut it all down and keep some fucking promises.
and get some tattoos.
@Fen:
"I've never described culty Trumpists as culty Trumpists!" he implored.
I never used the world cultist to describe anyone. When I used the phrase cult of personality, I was describing the presidency itself, not any specific president or his supporters.
but I do love Trump's fat ass. As a cultist. You gotta love a good fat ass.
J Farmer: "I had no idea that every criticism written here had to be followed by a practical solution. I have no solution. What does that have to do with the veracity of my criticism?"
Nothing.
As noted before. Explicitly. Repeatedly.
But any conversation such as this will invariably turn to what should be done about it.
@Nobody:
It’s always the thoughts you project into other people’s heads that bother you the most about them, isn’t it?
Uhh...the reference to shooting someone on 5th Avenue were Trump's. And he was describing his support. In other words, the notion that a segment of Trump's supporters will back him no matter what is an opinion shared by...Trump.
but I do love Trump's fat ass. As a cultist. You gotta love a good fat ass.
A big ass, not a fat ass. A fat ass implies cellulite and stretch marks. Yuck.
@Drago:
But any conversation such as this will invariably turn to what should be done about it.
Invariably, perhaps. But I'm not sure when. Most of the push back on this thread has been in denying the criticisms in the first place. Seeing Trump in a realistic way as opposed to reflexively defending and spinning for him would be a good first step.
Farmer: Exactly in what reality is Trump more likely to get the wall built during the second half of his presidency than the first?
This is not logical. Example:
In 1982 We hired contractors to build a fence around our house. For 30+ years they offered estimates and signed contracts and pretended to work, but no fence was ever built.
In 2016 we hired a new contractor. For the first time, he actually put up fencing, replaced inadequate barriers (designed to stop cars but not people), and gone out of his way to find creative ways to finance more fencing (tapping asset forfeiture funds and $1 billion from the Pentagon). He has held head to head competitions between contractors to design the most effective fencing.
And he's done it all this while having to fight Democrats and some Republicans every step of the way. Even having to shut down the government to gain leverage.
And you want to pretend he's not acting in good faith? He's has tried new creative approaches that someone who really wasn't trying would not be capable of even considering.
Or are you pretending he is incompetent? When he has accomplished more than the last 4 Presidents combined?
I'm a border hawk. For me, if Trump doesn't give us a Border Wall, his presidency is a failure. And if he makes another *republican* deal for amnesty but not wall, its a stark betrayal and it's time to pick up a rifle and start shooting politicians till we get our country back.
But we are nowhere near that. From 1982 to 2016 there was no progress the fence around our house. The new guy has been incredible by comparison. Anchor posts went into the ground last week, and you ask "if you don't have your fence this week, what are the odds you will have it next week?" and I say you sound like a loon.
"Most of the push back on this thread has been in denying the criticisms in the first place."
Nope, the push back is a a denial that you are making criticisms in good faith. Trump Derangement Syndrome is so ripe that it has immunized him from legitimate criticism. If you were acting in good faith, you would recognize that and tailor your criticism accordingly. Instead, you lash out at Trump supporters who cannot be blamed for being skeptical of you.
"Seeing Trump in a realistic way as opposed to reflexively defending and spinning for him would be a good first step."
And comments like this only serve to make me think you are full of shit.
You are unhappy with Trump on the border wall? I am too. I think it is going WAY too slowly and I ran out of patience back in 1992. Do you see me taking shots at Trump supporters here?
J. Farmer said...
@Drago:
But any conversation such as this will invariably turn to what should be done about it.
Invariably, perhaps. But I'm not sure when. Most of the push back on this thread has been in denying the criticisms in the first place. Seeing Trump in a realistic way as opposed to reflexively defending and spinning for him would be a good first step.
You are dodging the question.
Inga appreciates your efforts though.
@Achilles:
You are dodging the question.
Exactly what question am I dodging?
“Inga appreciates your efforts though.”
I appreciate realism and honesty.
Inga: "I appreciate realism and honesty."
LOL
Collusion Truther and Hoax Dossier Dead-ender babbles.
Elections are coming, and it's Trump or the Democrats. Which side are you on?
@Fen:
Nope, the push back is a a denial that you are making criticisms in good faith.
I congratulate you on being a mind reader. Of course, even if my criticisms were 100% in bad faith, it would make no difference to whether they were true or false, valid or invalid. My motives have nothing to do with the veracity of my statements.
Instead, you lash out at Trump supporters who cannot be blamed for being skeptical of you.
Lashed out? I had no idea Trump supporters were such delicate snowflakes. I'd expect a little thicker skin. Plus, what I said was that a segment of Trump supporters would defend him no matter what. This is an observation of Trump's support that Trump himself as made. And it's not an instinct that should be indulged and it's worth criticizing. And of course by reflexively defending a politician instead of holding their feet to the fire, you're abetting their failure.
J Farmer: " But I'm not sure when."
Several hours ago.
So, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are not just another Ritmo-Chuck-Inga sent here to disrupt with the latest set of bullshit talking points issued from Soros Boiler Room #3, I'll treat your question seriously, as if you asked in good faith:
"Exactly in what reality is Trump more likely to get the wall built during the second half of his presidency than the first?"
In this reality. Because for the first time in 30+ years we are seeing significant progress, and in spite of constant onsloughts like Kavanaugh and Mueller that have distracted Trump from his goal.
Your line of reasoning assumes that "no progress" has been the status quo, when it has not. That's where your argument falls apart - if Trump had not made significant progress in funding the wall, ordering the wall, testing prototypes, replacing existing inadequate fencing, then I would agree the pattern predicts no wall built during the second half of his presidency. But that's not true. We are watching the foundations go in NOW.
Your turn - if Trump fails to build the wall in the second half of his presidency, are you prepared to re-elect him in 2020 to give him more time? Show us you aren't just another Moby.
@tcrosse:
Elections are coming, and it's Trump or the Democrats. Which side are you on?
Depends on two things: (1) who the Democrats nominate? (2) What Trump does about immigration for the rest of his term.
It's looking like no matter who we vote for, we're not getting a wall and mass immigration will continue. The rest is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
@Drago:
Several hours ago.
Great. Then you should have nothing left to say here.
Farmer: I congratulate you on being a mind reader. Of course, even if my criticisms were 100% in bad faith
It only took simple logic to discern that you are acting in bad faith. And thank you for doubling down on your bullshit line of attack, it saves me the time of treating you as a reasonable person with a legitimate complaint.
Shorter: LOL Get fucked
Inga finds her realism and honesty every night on the Maddow show.
@Fen:
So, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are not just another Ritmo-Chuck-Inga sent here to disrupt with the latest set of bullshit talking points issued from Soros Boiler Room #3, I'll treat your question seriously, as if you asked in good faith:
I don't need any benefit of the doubt. My motives are irrelevant to the argument. Do you not grasp that concept? Plus, I am criticizing Trump from the right, so it doesn't make any sense to say I am using "talking points issued from Soros Boiler Room #3." You want to impugn motives but you don't even understand my position. This is tomfoolery on your part.
In this reality. Because for the first time in 30+ years we are seeing significant progress, and in spite of constant onsloughts like Kavanaugh and Mueller that have distracted Trump from his goal.
Significant progress? Wow. No we have seen minimal progress. But the response I've gotten defending Trump's failure on the wall is that he faced opposition in Congress. So if he needs Congress to get the wall, then how is that likely to occur when the House is now controlled by the Democrats?
Your turn - if Trump fails to build the wall in the second half of his presidency, are you prepared to re-elect him in 2020 to give him more time? Show us you aren't just another Moby.
To repeat what I wrote before, though after your comment: "Depends on two things: (1) who the Democrats nominate? (2) What Trump does about immigration for the rest of his term.
It's looking like no matter who we vote for, we're not getting a wall and mass immigration will continue. The rest is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic."
Farmer walks into the Smithsonian Coffee Shop, notices all the tourists coming from the Black History Month exhibit, ambles up to the counter and says:
"I'd like a coffee please"
"Cream and sugar?" replies the young black girl
"None, I like mine Negro dark" he quips
She blanches at that, but slides him his change.
"Keep it dear, you won't find me being niggardly"
The cafe becomes hushed, a sudden stillness
"Why are you all looking at me with such contempt! Negro is a color! Niggardly means cheap!
@Fen:
It only took simple logic to discern that you are acting in bad faith.
That same simple logic should also tell you that motivation for making an argument is irrelevant to the validity of the argument. It's what the ad hominem fallacy is all about. That you want to attack me instead of the argument should tell you something, but I'm guessing it's flying right over your head.
And thank you for doubling down on your bullshit line of attack, it saves me the time of treating you as a reasonable person with a legitimate complaint.
Ah, the old your argument is so unreasonable I can't be bothered to answer it line. In other words, you can't refute the argument, so you just attack the person instead. Please stop using the phrase "simple logic." It's not something you have in your arsenal.
Shorter: LOL Get fucked
Devastating critique. I'm withering.
Your turn - if Trump fails to build the wall in the second half of his presidency, are you prepared to re-elect him in 2020 to give him more time? Show us you aren't just another Moby.
"Depends on two things: (1) who the Democrats nominate? (2) What Trump does about immigration for the rest of his term.
Bullshit. None of that matters. No Democrat is going to build a border wall.
Trump is the ONLY one who can deliver a Border Wall. You claim you want one. Will you give him another 4 years to build it? Yes or no, moby.
@Fen:
My apologies. I had no idea you were such a snowflake. By saying that some of Trump's supporters will back him no matter what (an observation Trump himself) is apparently "lashing out," and Fen is in meltdown mode over it. Someone get the smelling salts.
Bullshit. None of that matters. No Democrat is going to build a border wall.
Neither is Trump. So it's a moot point. You're not one of those people who believe the "finish the wall" bullshit, are you?
Ah, the old your argument is so unreasonable
No, not unreasonable, I will make the same argument, but 2 years from now.
Someone gave you talking points and directed you to exploit impatience over construction of the Border Wall to peel Trump supporters away from Trump.
Your argument is not made in good faith, that's why I'm treating you like Chuck.
Go ahead, insult us some more, then complain we are responding unfairly. I gave you an opportunity to walk it back and start over and be treated as a reasonable person with a legitimate complaint. You chose not to, because you don't really care about this issue, you are a concern troll.
My apologies. I had no idea you were such a snowflake. By saying that some of Trump's supporters will back him no matter what (an observation Trump himself) is apparently "lashing out," and Fen is in meltdown mode over it. Someone get the smelling salts.
LOL. You take yourself way too seriously Farmer. I outed you as a concern troll in 3 posts and provoked you into revealing your hand in 2.
You were a mid-afternoon snack. That's all.
How much are they paying you, btw?
Moby: "By saying that some of Trump's supporters will back him no matter what (an observation Trump himself) is apparently lashing out"
No. My point there was you claim you never go so far as to tar Trump supporters as cultists in the very same sentence where you tar Trump supporters as cultists.
Are you fucking stupid? Push aside your talking points and try to think for yourself.
You are becoming boring.
@fem:
No. My point there was you claim you never go so far as to tar Trump supporters as cultists in the very same sentence where you tar Trump supporters as cultists.
Quote a single sentence where I called Trump supporters "cultists," and I'll send you a check for $500.
Also, since you claim to be a practitioner of "simple logic," let me try one more time to get through to your small brain. Even if I was acting in bad faith. Even if I was given talking points. Even if I was on someone's payroll. None of that is relevant to whether the criticisms I make are valid or not. Your attacking me because you have no response to my arguments.
You are becoming boring.
You've been boring. And wrong. And ill-informed.
i'll wait for the quote, and I'll keep my checkbook handy. Though I'm quite certain I won't need it.
J. Farmer said...
@Achilles:
You are dodging the question.
Exactly what question am I dodging?
Never mind.
You are here in bad faith. A complete joke.
You are part of the problem.
At this point I would guess that you are angry Trump is going after Iran and not attacking Israel enough.
You are in the Chuck category from here on out.
@Achilles:
I've been a paleocon my entire adult life. I've advocated America First long before Trump ever uttered the phrase. I've argued for years that immigration is the most salient issue. I've repeatedly said that I supported Trump primarily for his immigration stance. But my frustration with him on immigration is all just in bad faith. You people are pathetic.
Farmer: I was actually accused of having Trump Derangement Syndrome, even though I've supported Trump since the Mexican rapist speech and my criticisms have mostly been from the right of Trump. I have said repeatedly for the last two years that I consider immigration the most important issue, that I considered Trump a hail mary pass, and that I largely think America is doomed. To me, an optimistic conservative is an oxymoron.
You came into a room plagued with Mobys and made Moby-like criticisms of Trump. When confronted, instead of talking people down, you reacted like a Chuck and insulted people for not trusting you. And now you are regarded as a Moby.
Did that go the way you planned?
People here say you are a smart guy, so it follows this is what you really wanted - not to have an honest discussion about Trump's failures, but to have that drowned out by a cat fight. Did you think calling us Trump Cultists was going to sway us to consider your argument more seriously? Or did you invite the cat fight because you know your argument is weak?
Bruce Hayden is smart. Freeman Hunt is smart. They certainly would not have responded the way you have.
Let's face it, J Farmer is upset that Trump has sanctioned Iran.
And that's ok.
It's just dishonest to deny the facts as they stand.
But it's the internet and dishonesty happens.
Nobody should lose sleep over it.
J. Farmer said...
I had no idea that every criticism written here had to be followed by a practical solution. I have no solution. What does that have to do with the veracity of my criticism?
This is Farmer's equivalent of Chuck's smear merchant admission.
Farmer is Chuck 2.0.
He is not here in good faith. Never has been. I doubt he ever voted for Trump at this point.
Case in point:
Border wall is being built out of the defense budget.
Trump is making every effort to make this happen.
Farmer has not offered any real criticisms or solutions. Just a stupid assertion "NO WALL YET. derpity derp"
Hilarious that this whole thread started with me saying that a faction of Trump's supporters will defend him no matter what, and right on cue the lemmings have come out of the woodwork to prove my point. I've repeatedly stated where I think Trump went wrong in immigration, and yet no one wants to defend those actions by Trump. They just want to yell "bad faith." That should tell you how weak your position is.
Farmer: "where I called Trump supporters "cultists," and I'll send you a check for $500."
Why waste my time with a dishonest person?
This is where your debating tactic led you, Smart Guy. Now what?
You going to tell me Trump could shoot a guy in Times Square and I'm so deplorable I would still support him? Go ahead. Your transformation into a Chuck Butterfly will be amusing.
Also, I never described "everyone and anyone who disagrees with" my assessments as "big-man worshiping cultists." That's another strawman. But that is a certainly an accurate description of some of Trump's supporters. To put it another way, he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, and they'd still vote for him.
I think many Trump "supporters" have evolved from being simply anti-Clinton voters.
Kind of an ego defense mechanism from being called Nazis, sexists, homophopes and all the rest. Much defense of Trump is defense of self from the left who call us "you people".
Personally, as I have said many times, I watched the Apprentice (with mt wife) and was not too impressed with Trump. One incident where he gave the win to Joan Rivers when Poker Annie had annihilated her in the money raising challenge still pisses me off.
I assumed Trump would hire and appoint smart, competent people to do the job, which is what General Contractors do.
Now, I am a legitimate supporter because of the jobs situation. Having been broke-ass poorly educated I can relate to deplorables in the same situation.
As for immigration, obviously illegal needs to get under control and citizenship process needs to be sped up.
A Cultist’s simplistic logic: Anyone who hasn’t crawled up Trump’s ass are terrible people who act in bad faith.
Well, J. You seem to take everything literally so when I hear Trump say it, I take it as rhetoric, but when you say it, I hear “actually literally shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue.” Because that’s what you seem to hear Trump say.
J. Farmer said...
@Achilles:
I've been a paleocon my entire adult life. I've advocated America First long before Trump ever uttered the phrase. I've argued for years that immigration is the most salient issue. I've repeatedly said that I supported Trump primarily for his immigration stance. But my frustration with him on immigration is all just in bad faith. You people are pathetic.
Yeah sure.
Go bitch in your corner and leave the fight to us. We don't need a fucking jerk bitching about shit not happening fast enough and trying to undermine the last shot we have at saving the republic.
If you are not going to help fuck off. Trump isn't perfect and neither are his supporters. We are all far less than perfect.
But we are doing infinitely more than you are.
Trump is the first leader to actually try. Reagan didn't even do as much as Trump has and Trump has faced far more globalist blow back than Reagan did.
Take your pompous bullshit and stuff it up your ass. I am tired of stupid whingers if that is actually what you are.
As it is I doubt you ever supported this effort.
A Cultist’s simplistic logic: Anyone who can’t see that Trump is a Putin puppet and Anti-Christ are terrible people who act in bad faith.
Achilles:
He is not here in good faith. Never has been. I doubt he ever voted for Trump at this point.
Luckily I don't give a shit what you think you know about me, which is nothing.
Trump is making every effort to make this happen.
Yeah. After fucking it up the first two years.
Farmer has not offered any real criticisms
Are you illiterate? I've written repeatedly my specific criticisms of Trump's handling of the wall (e.g. prioritizing the Paul Ryan agenda, singing the omnibus spending bill, not giving us the promised EO on anchor babies). If you wish to defend these actions, please go right ahead.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
A Cultist’s simplistic logic: Anyone who hasn’t crawled up Trump’s ass are terrible people who act in bad faith.
Shorter Farmer.
Farmer: "where I called Trump supporters "cultists," and I'll send you a check for $500."
Hmm, just this thread, or your entire history? In seriousness, or in jest? Per incident, or a single payoff? PayPal ok?
Please clarify as I may be tempted in a future manic/ compulsive episode to accept the challenge.
Go bitch in your corner and leave the fight to us. We don't need a fucking jerk bitching about shit not happening fast enough and trying to undermine the last shot we have at saving the republic.
That’s sort of how I feel too, abut Farmer and Chuck. I don’t see anybody else out there willing to step into the arena on these issues, so, as imperfect as he is, I have to go with Trump.
“We are all far less than perfect.”
Hallelujah! Some truth at last. And some are awful frauds like Trump who have duped millions of people.
I don’t think that Trump expected to be stabbed in the back by his own party the way he was, now he knows better. We have another election. Republican never-Trumpers are falling aside, and Even the New York Times has allowed as to how there are some difficulties at the border, and court cases are starting to go his way.
Ryan was a uniparty deep stater. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Hallelujah! Some truth at last. And some are awful frauds like Trump who have duped millions of people.
How was I duped exactly? I am pretty happy with most of what he did.
@Achilles:
There's so much patent nonsense in what you say that one hardly knows where to begin. Even if every criticism you made of me personally was correct, it still has nothing to do with whether or not anything I say is right or wrong, valid or invalid, logical or illogical. That your too much of a nitwit to grasp this basic concept is a terminal failing of yours.
If anybody should feel duped, it should be a faithful viewer of Rachael Maddow, you know the one who inspired the baseball shooter, who shot up the Republicans because Rachael told him Trump was a traitor. I mean how much more duped can you get?
That your too much of a nitwit to grasp this basic concept is a terminal failing of yours.
We are just asking you what the point is of your criticism, since there is no-one else even willing to discuss this stuff.
Rachel spent 2+ years telling her eager viewers that Trump was a Russia agent. Those lies die hard.
@Nobody:
That’s sort of how I feel too, abut Farmer and Chuck. I don’t see anybody else out there willing to step into the arena on these issues, so, as imperfect as he is, I have to go with Trump.
The difference being I voted for Trump specifically on the issue of immigration, which I consider an existential issue. Making specific criticisms of a specific policy is not the same thing as saying someone is "imperfect." That's obvious. By the way, Ann Coulter and Mickey Kaus, two early and rational Trump defenders, have made the same criticisms. Are they also acting in bad faith? As their support for Trump for the last three years also been bogus?
J. Farmer said...
Achilles:
He is not here in good faith. Never has been. I doubt he ever voted for Trump at this point.
Luckily I don't give a shit what you think you know about me, which is nothing.
Good. I think less of you. You don't deserve the freedom you were born with and take for granted.
"Trump is making every effort to make this happen."
Yeah. After fucking it up the first two years.
He did more in two years than any person has done in 50 years. But you still bitch and moan with no real solutions.
One wonders why.
"Farmer has not offered any real criticisms"
Are you illiterate? I've written repeatedly my specific criticisms of Trump's handling of the wall (e.g. prioritizing the Paul Ryan agenda, singing the omnibus spending bill, not giving us the promised EO on anchor babies). If you wish to defend these actions, please go right ahead.
Again you offer nothing. Just "No wall yet DERP!"
The Tax reform and the Trade reform were just as important as immigration.
That trade reform has been opposed by the CoC and many republicans, but Trump has been singularly effective in reorienting our economy and reviving the middle class.
The Tax reform was particularly important because it ended the low tax red state subsidization of high tax wealthy blue states.
I wasn't happy about the Omnibus Bill. I don't think Trump had much choice there. Ryan had enough votes to override a veto.
But I assign blame for that betrayal to our enemies, not to our friends.
You assign blame to the people who you claim to agree with. That is why we believe you are here in bad faith.
Fen makes a valid and superb argument @ 1:14.
You’re like the guy who abandoned ship while the rest of the crew is still trying to save it, and the ship is still afloat, but there you are in the water as the ship steams ahead, shouting insults, like some Monty Python character.
Notice who your fans are? People who want the exact opposite of what you claim to want.
I read Mickey Kaus every day, you are no Mickey Kaus, you don’t have his subtlety. I think what Kaus does is valuable, I think what you do is kvetch about water under the bridge.
@Nobody:
We are just asking you what the point is of your criticism, since there is no-one else even willing to discuss this stuff.
My point is that on the central premise of Trump's campaign, what he talked about every day for a year, he has utterly failed to deliver. And he got duped by Paul Ryan, boy wonder of the House of Representatives. This should at least cause one to pause in their over-the-top praise of Trump (greatest politician in living memory, otherwordly political strategist, etc.). I was also making the point that people ignore Trump's failures because they want to support him at all cost (a very bad instinct to indulge). And then everyone here acted like a snowflake and had a meltdown over a criticism of Trump.
J. Farmer said...
@Achilles:
There's so much patent nonsense in what you say that one hardly knows where to begin. Even if every criticism you made of me personally was correct, it still has nothing to do with whether or not anything I say is right or wrong, valid or invalid, logical or illogical. That your too much of a nitwit to grasp this basic concept is a terminal failing of yours.
So my failing is you cannot deal with or understand the arguments I have made.
You are not as smart as you play yourself off to be.
You have 3 options:
1. Come up with a valid solution and convince us it will have a better chance of success.
2. Go bitch and moan about NO WALL YET DERP in your stupid corner and let us fight this alone.
3. You can keep making Inga's points for her, just with bigger words, and take the Chuck 2.0 path.
“You’re like the guy who abandoned ship while the rest of the crew is still trying to save it, and the ship is still afloat...”
Delusional. The Trump ship is sinking faster than you think and you people have no clue.
Just so we are clear, J Farmer is completely ignorant of the 235 miles of wall that will be finished this year.
But only completely ignorant.
The Left does tend to be physically repellent. I remember P. J. O'Roure writing about the Nuclear Freeze movement of yesteryear, and the zoo behind it, said, "This crowd could get ugly, if they weren't already."
@Nobody:
You’re like the guy who abandoned ship while the rest of the crew is still trying to save it, and the ship is still afloat, but there you are in the water as the ship steams ahead, shouting insults, like some Monty Python character.
Criticizing Trump for not fulfilling the central premise of his campaign is not abandoning ship. It's trying to rescue the ship. Making excuses for Trump's failure, and thus taking political heat off of him, is a foolish strategy.
And incidentally, I've repeatedly pointed out what I thought Trump's mistakes were, and yet none of you have come to defend them. Why is that?
Delusional. The Trump ship is sinking faster than you think and you people have no clue.
Keep hope alive! No one knows what Mueller knows! This week is the beginning of the end!
That’s your fangirl Farmer.
Mickey Kaus always has Trump’s back, and provides constructive criticism, not like the stuff you and Chuck dole out.
@Achilles:
You have 3 options:
No, I don't. Here's a fun task for you, point out something I've said that is incorrect.
Farmer: Hilarious that this whole thread started with me saying that a faction of Trump's supporters will defend him no matter what, and right on cue the lemmings have come out of the woodwork to prove my point
Bullshit. Just about everyone here, including me, has agreed with your criticism that Trump has not delivered on his Border Wall promise. But we want to give him more time. And we find your outrage to be out of proportion and unreasonable. You smell like a Moby.
For that, you insult us as being "lemmings" while simultaneously playing the victim. That's just more civility bullshit we routinely get from moby's like Chuck. Again, that smell.
As I have said, you are fully aware that Trump has been subjected to so many hoax complaints that he has become immunized to legitimate criticism. Others here claim you are smart, so how come you didn't factor that into your approach?
It is not unreasonable for us, after 3 years of this bullshit, to reflexively dismiss complaints about Trump and scrutinize motives. We are not defending Trump because we would blindly follow him anywhere, we are defending Trump from what appears to be yet another baseless hyperbolic attack.
If you are conservative like us (an ally at least), if you are smart, you should recognize this and adapt your tactics accordingly. Expect initial pushback, expect you will need to distinguish yourself from posers like Chuck, don't respond to insults - try to talk them down, come across as reasonable, give ground and admit mistakes of rhetoric or logic to build credibility.
That is, if you truly care about border security and want to voice a concern and have it taken seriously. But instead, you seem to have this need to separate yourself from us, to pretend we are Trump Cultists or lemmings and you are "bravely forging your own independent path through the wilderness". Yay you.
Am I right? You're a smart guy, so I ask: did you intend to provoke us into talking about You instead of this issue you claim to care so much about? Because that is what you got.
If I were you, I would apologize to everyone, explain that you didn't see where they were coming from but now you do, and would like to start this discussion over.
If that's what you are really on about.... Border control, not what a Righteous Dude you surely must be.
and yet none of you have come to defend them. Why is that?
Because you are right, shit has happened, but I don’t see any way forward without Trump, this is an existential fight and you are dithering because stuff isn’t happening fast enough for you. Yeah I wish it was done, yeah I blame Trump for getting snookered by Ryan and waking up too late. I think the government should have stayed shut down until he won. People didn’t care, it didn’t hurt the economy, this is a life and death struggle for American libertarianism too.
You refuse to answer the question “who else is there” but Kaus has thought about it, and he knows that we have to stick with Trump because there is nobody else.
@Fen:
Am I right? You're a smart guy, so I ask: did you intend to provoke us into talking about You instead of this issue you claim to care so much about? Because that is what you got.
And I've repeatedly said (to you among others) that I'm irrelevant and to focus on the argument. You're the one who made absurd claims about my personal motives, when I said that my motives (no matter what they are) are irrelevant.
By the way I'm still waiting for you to quote where I called Trump supporters "cultist." Or will you at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that was wrong and apologize?
“That’s your fangirl Farmer.”
I’m a fangirl of the truth. I’m a fangirl of people who have insight and the courage to express it against all odds. You people are so so so deluded, it’s horrifying seeing how you people have allowed yourselves to be taken over by Cultism.
@Nobody:
Because you are right, shit has happened, but I don’t see any way forward without Trump, this is an existential fight and you are dithering because stuff isn’t happening fast enough for you.
If Trump can't get the wall built, his presidency will be meaningless. Now is the time to keep the political heat on Trump over the wall. Bending over backwards to excuse and defend him is the exact wrong strategy. And waiting until his term is over is nonsensical. By then it will be too late.
See, the reason people think you call people who support Trump cultists is because your sentiments are indistinguishable from somebody like that, like the girl who promised us that Mueller had Trump dead to rights, we just didn’t know what he knew.
Here's a fun task for you, point out something I've said that is incorrect.
"Hi, I want to express concerns about Trump's failure to secure the border. Let me start by pissing all over the people who are also concerned about it."
How is that working out for you? Double down again, Smart Guy. Now you're talking about what you said or didn't say instead of that issue you claim to be SO concerned about.
Is that what you intended when you called us Trump Cultists and lemmings? That we would take you more seriously?
But enough about you. Let's talk more about you....
“I want to express concerns about Trump's failure to secure the border. Let me start by pissing all over the people who are also concerned it."
Why should anyone defend your cultish behavior? It’s disgusting, it disturbing, it’s pathetic.
Inga on delusion:
"After reading this thread, I think you nutbags are are going to lose whatever marbles you still have left when the Mueller report is made public. I think whoever ends up in the role of President before 2020 might need to declare martial law, until you Cultists get yourselves deprogrammed. Have hope, there might still be a normal life after Trump for you poor souls.
The Mueller report says exactly the opposite of what I've been screeching for the last two years! Boom! - the 'smart' person in the room.
it’s horrifying seeing how you people have allowed yourselves to be taken over by Cultism.
Hilarious. I suggest a look in the mirror. Maybe you'll see Jerry Nadler there, of course,
The walls are closing in. Delusions are not good for you. As a psych nurse, you should know that.
Inga finds hope in the cracks. The very cracks her party-> use to destroy a once great nation.
Keep hope alive.
“Have hope, there might still be a normal life after Trump for you poor souls.”
I no longer have hope for you Cultists.
Trump made the mistake of thinking the GOP WHO HAD THE HOUSE AND SENATE would actually help deliver what THEY HAD BEEN PROMISING THE VOTERS FOR YEARS. Instead he has to do it by himself. He is still working on it and making incremental progress. Fuck Paul Ryan.
@Fen:
Is that what you intended when you called us Trump Cultists and lemmings?
I never called anyone a Trump Cultist. You're wrong/ Go ahead and say it, "I was wrong." It'd be a good little character booster for you. You don't even have to apologize to me for making continually wrong assertions. I've offered you $500 for a single quote of me calling Trump supporters "cultists." I'm still waiting. It's really easy. Press Ctrl F and type in "cultist." I'll wait.
But enough about you. Let's talk more about you....
Asking someone to point out what I've said that is incorrect is not asking about me. I'd think a fan of "basic logic" would grasp that.
If Trump can't get the wall built, his presidency will be meaningless. Now is the time to keep the political heat on Trump over the wall.
I think what he has shown about the Democrat’s abuse of the DoJ, FBI, IRS, etc, etc, etc, is not nothing. The scales have fallen from my eyes as to what kind of democracy we lived in. Then Hollywood orders up a show to fix it, along the lines of in kind contribution to Hillary that was Madame Secretary, we now have “The FBI” what and upstanding bunch Comy, McCabe and Strzok are!
So no, it’s not meaningless, but you should approach this from a point of view of supporting Trump, the way Kaus does, instead of feeding trolls like she who won’t be named with your constant attacks. I don’t follow Coulter at all, so I have no idea how she is couching her criticisms of Trump.
But when you say things that sound an awful lot like “He didn’t get it built so he never will” I don’t see how you are helping your case.
@Nobody:
See, the reason people think you call people who support Trump cultists is because your sentiments are indistinguishable from somebody like that, like the girl who promised us that Mueller had Trump dead to rights, we just didn’t know what he knew.
So pointing out that a faction of Trump supporters will support him no matter what is incorrect your opinion? Trump made the same observation (i.e. I could shoot someone in Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes). And that's pretty much true of any president. As I said, it is "endemic to the presidency."
For what it's worth, I never followed the Mueller investigation with any closeness because I've always considered the Russian collusion claim to be absurd. I didn't need a massive investigation to tell me that Trump wasn't Putin's puppet. The claim was nonsensical from the beginning.
I no longer have hope for us Cultists - “Did I say that out loud?” Inga.
I thought that your delusion couldn’t get any deeper than it was over Mueller, but obviously you have given up hope for ever finding your way out of the mental morrass that has kept you trapped in your deranged cult.
Yes - we are hopeless Inga. Now off you go. Maddow is on!
@Nobody:
But when you say things that sound an awful lot like “He didn’t get it built so he never will” I don’t see how you are helping your case.
I never said that. What I said is that it much less likely now that the Democrats control the House. That's why prioritizing the Paul Ryan agenda was such a mistake. I said the same thing 18 months ago.
The claim was nonsensical from the beginning.
Cover your ears cultists!
@Nobody:
But when you say things that sound an awful lot like “He didn’t get it built so he never will” I don’t see how you are helping your case.
I never said that. What I said is that it much less likely now that the Democrats control the House. That's why prioritizing the Paul Ryan agenda was such a mistake. I said the same thing 18 months ago.
Farmer: I've repeatedly said (to you among others) that I'm irrelevant and to focus on the argument. You're the one who made absurd claims about my personal motives, when I said that my motives (no matter what they are) are irrelevant.
By the way I'm still waiting for you to quote where I called Trump supporters "cultist." Or will you at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that was wrong and apologize?
Oh good, let's talk more about you instead of this issue you claim to care so much about.
First, motives are always relevant. For example, why do you keep directing the conservation back to yourself instead of the issue you claim to be concerned about. I find that motive interesting. Coupled with your insults that we are "lemmings" for defending Trump, which implies that you are not... are you Virtue Signaling that you are an independent thinker? Is that what all this is about? Someone said something that damaged your self-esteem, made you embarrassed to be associated with Trump and his supporters, so you came to pick a fight and spotlight yourself as a "brave independent thinker!!!" over...(spins wheel)...Trump's Border Wall Failure.
Is that what happened? Because the tactics you've used here don't dovetail with the issue, so your motive for raising it become suspect. I think you are getting exactly what you wanted - we are talking about you while you take cheap shots and liken us to cultists and lemmings.
Someone who's motive was to have an honest discussion about Trump's failures would have used a different approach.
Cover your ears cultists!
Also for what it's worth, I have repeatedly said that most of the opposition to Trump has been hysterical and out of proportion. But I'm not a flatterer or praiser of politicians. I said from the beginning that I consider Trump's presidency a hail mary pass and nothing much in the last two years has shaken that belief of mine. I hope i'm wrong, but I still think more likely than not that America is doomed.
"walls don't work."
Some walls definitely do work.
So that's why the Hollywood glitterati build them around their mansions and why people pay premiums to live in gated communities. Because of how ineffectual they are.
Because the people who might climb over or thru the walls look for easier targets. What are the alternative targets for people invading the US?
The Berlin wall is a more appropriate comparison than walls around mansions, and it worked, fairly well, but the big differences are:
- US border with Mexico is about 2,000 miles and the Berlin wall was about 30 or 100 miles, depending on how you count it, in a populated area and heavily patrolled.
- The Berlin wall was meant to keep people in, not keep people out; the people wanting to cross the wall couldn't do much of anything on their side, like blow it up with dynamite, or dig tunnels underneath, as the Mexican already do.
Clearly Ryan was the last gasp of the CoC Republican Party (Chamber of Cucks) but I am pretty sure that we can win the House back, especially if the Dems impeach. They are doing nothing now but trawling for ways to damage Trump. How is that governing, and their party is supposed to be the party of governance.
The Democrats have a lot of fissures that can be exploited. How can Biden go to California and promise tax cuts to millionaires there and then travel to PA to promise them that there smoking hot economy is going to somehow get even better if they just let him end coal mining, reverse Trump’s actions to bring back steel, and end fracking?
Democrats are incredibly vulnerable right now, which is why they were terrified to build what would have been a widely popular wall.
I said from the beginning that I consider Trump's presidency a hail mary pass and nothing much in the last two years has shaken that belief of mine.
You know what you do on a hail mary pass? You run downfield and block!
Fen @2:51
Hear, hear!
J. - I think everyone here agrees with you about the wall's construction lagging. Disappointing. But we haven't given up. And calling people lemmings or cultists will not further any discussion.
Reminds me of a quote:
Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
All of this "did too did not" is a waste of time.
You tried to provoke and when you got the reaction you expected you pushed back.
ps - I got the vibrating bed reference....so we can be friends.
But Enough About Me said: Asking someone to point out what I'VE said that is incorrect is not asking about ME. I'D think a fan of "basic logic" would grasp that.
My bad, you were talking about how YOU were unfairly oppressed by the people YOU likened to cultists and lemmings. Do go on. I want to hear more about how YOU wouldn't stand for Trump shooting people in the middle of Times Square, not like those Deplorables...
@Fen:
First, motives are always relevant
No, they're not. They are always irrelevant to any given argument. Why someone said something has no bearing if whether or not what they said is true or not.
For example, why do you keep directing the conservation back to yourself instead of the issue you claim to be concerned about.
You're the one who made a charge against me that I called Trump supporters "cultist." I'm pushing back on a false claim you have repeated. So you make an accusation, and then why I try to defend myself, you say I'm making the conversation about me. I guess that's some more of the "basic logic" you're such a fan of.
Someone who's motive was to have an honest discussion about Trump's failures would have used a different approach.
So I listed the specific things Trump did wrong, and your response was to say I'm arguing in bad faith and being paid by someone. But I'm the one prevent an "honest discussion about Trump's failures." I've been trying this entire thread to have a conversation about Trump's failure, but seems most people's response (yours included) has been to attack my motives.
By the way, the fact you can't admit to a simple error, that you were wrong about me calling Trump supporters cultist (which I never did and you repeatedly claimed) is very poor form.
Professor, if nobody has pointed it out yet, the proper name is Panama CITY Beach. I grew up there.
...also a US border wall, unlike the Berlin wall, would be interfering with a multi-billion dollar smuggling industry, so they have a lot of motivation to circumvent it.
@Fen:
My bad, you were talking about how YOU were unfairly oppressed by the people YOU likened to cultists and lemmings. Do go on. I want to hear more about how YOU wouldn't stand for Trump shooting people in the middle of Times Square, not like those Deplorables...
If I say 2+2=5 and then I say, "point out what I've gotten wrong." That's not a question about me. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.
Also, please stop lying about me likening Trump supporters to cultist. I never did. And your inability to admit error is a bad character flaw.
But Enough About Me said: Also for what it's worth, I have repeatedly said that most of the opposition to Trump has been hysterical and out of proportion. But I'M not a flatterer or praiser of politicians. I said from the beginning that I consider Trump's presidency a hail mary pass and nothing much in the last two years has shaken that belief of MINE. I hope I'M wrong, but I still think more likely than not that America is doomed.
Yah I agree with all that. Spot on. Oh wait... I hope that doesn't make you feel like a lemming or cultist? Don't fret, you are a brave independent thinker who bucks the status quo, not a mindless Deplorable like the rest of us.
But enough about you, tells us more about what a brave independent rebel you are as regards that border something something issue you spoke of earlier.
Hey Fen, you dumbass, I’m the one who has been calling you people Cultists.
@nob490:
J. - I think everyone here agrees with you about the wall's construction lagging. Disappointing. But we haven't given up. And calling people lemmings or cultists will not further any discussion.
What does "given up" even mean in that context? Pointing out Trump's failure on the wall is not giving up, It's the exact opposite. As I've said, political pressure for the wall needs to be maintained, and excusing Trump's failures does not do that. It does the opposite.
Also, I never called anyone a cultist. That's some bullshit Fen made but refuses to acknowledge is a lie.
You tried to provoke and when you got the reaction you expected you pushed back.
Yes, I tried to provoke by saying something I wholeheartedly believe and am prepared to defend, and people melted down over it. Exactly proving my point that reflexively defending Trump is not a good idea. If people do not like allusions to lemmings, then they should not act like them.
Farmer: So I listed-
Blah blah blah.
You can keep arguing with me and we can keep playing this game.
Or you can take the advice I gave you upthread. Here it is again:
...you are fully aware that Trump has been subjected to so many hoax complaints that he has become immunized to legitimate criticism. Others here claim you are smart, so how come you didn't factor that into your approach?
It is not unreasonable for us, after 3 years of this bullshit, to reflexively dismiss complaints about Trump and scrutinize motives. We are not defending Trump because we would blindly follow him anywhere, we are defending Trump from what appears to be yet another baseless hyperbolic attack.
If you are conservative like us (or an ally), if you are smart, you should recognize this and adapt your tactics accordingly. Expect initial pushback, expect you will need to distinguish yourself from posers like Chuck, don't respond to insults - try to talk them down, come across as reasonable, give ground and admit mistakes of rhetoric or logic to build credibility.
That is, if you truly care about border security and want to voice a concern and have it taken seriously. But instead, you seem to have this need to separate yourself from us, to pretend we are Trump Cultists or lemmings and you are "bravely forging your own independent path through the wilderness". Yay you.
Am I right? You're a smart guy, so I ask: did you intend to provoke us into talking about You instead of this issue you claim to care so much about? Because that is what you got.
If I were you, I would apologize to everyone, explain that you didn't see where they were coming from but now you do, and would like to start this discussion over.
But I don't think you want to do that. You would rather go 11 rounds over whether you referred to us as cultists and lemmings.
So here, I picked out a shovel for you.
It’s easy to call people cultists, It’s even easier when they have spent the last two years believing in their prophet Mueller and when he turned out to have feet of clay, they never skipped a beat.
You are a deranged cultist, and you know who you are without any further description than your worship of Mueller.
@Fen:
Yah I agree with all that. Spot on. Oh wait... I hope that doesn't make you feel like a lemming or cultist? Don't fret, you are a brave independent thinker who bucks the status quo, not a mindless Deplorable like the rest of us.
I never said anything about you or anyone else on this blog. Stop taking shit personally and being such a thin-skinned snowflake. It's very unbecoming.
But enough about you, tells us more about what a brave independent rebel you are as regards that border something something issue you spoke of earlier.
You've written a dozen posts about me and simultaneously claimed that I'm too much the topic of conversation. If that's your complaint, look in a mirror, sweetheart.
Inga: Hey Fen, you dumbass, I’m the one who has been calling you people Cultists.
Oh look, the Mueller Trash Talker finally came out of exile. And is backing Farmer.
Interesting cohorts you've attracted Farmer, was that also your intent Smart Guy?
Pointing out Trump's failure on the wall
You use that word “failure” like it’s completely over. Maybe it is, maybe Democrats have a 95% chance of abrogating our national borders, but it’s not over ’til it’s over.
"Look at mee dammit, I called you guys names!” - Pathetic Troll
Farmer: I never said anything a-
Blah blah blah.
Is it not yet fucking obvious that no one cares?
You're the guy who finds an opportunity to say "niggardly" and then goes on for 30 comments about how it really means "cheap", and that Negro is a legitimate Crayola Crayon Color.
LOL get fucked. This is exactly the response you calibrated when you attacked us Deplorable Trump Cultist Lemmings.
@Fen:
If I were you, I would apologize to everyone, explain that you didn't see where they were coming from but now you do, and would like to start this discussion over.
I have nothing to apologize to anyone for because I didn't say anything about anyone here. You're acting like a hurt junior high school girl. Get over yourself.
But I don't think you want to do that. You would rather go 11 rounds over whether you referred to us as cultists and lemmings.
I wouldn't have had to go 11 rounds if you didn't continuously repeat a lie. But you seem to be characterologicaly incapable of admitting your error. Bad parenting, I guess.
Did Trump finally reel you in with his sexy body and brilliant mind?
5/9/19, 3:16 PM
Can't speak for anybody else, but Trump reeled me in with his successes. He's been far more conservative than I thought he was going to be. And the economy is going gangbusters.
I don't mistake politicians for movie stars, so I don't care what Trump looks like. Inga pissed her granny pants over Obama because she worships Dem pols and treats them like teenyboppers treat Justin Beiber. She projects her totalitarian bootlicking mentality onto free Americans And a deeply stupid, senile, wrinkled old leftist crone is not one to talk smack about anybody else's body or mind.
J. Okay, forget the cultist gripe. Perhaps we got it wrong. I think the "given up" part is the vibe you are putting out. You do seem to parse things out to the nth.
The tone of your posts is Trump is a letdown, anything he does without the wall is a waste of time. The wall isn't done yet, you people are foolishly naive to believe it ever will be.
You think it is just pointing out his flaws or whatever, but many of us (not cultists!) see it as just negativity.
And you seem to take pleasure in implying that our lack of shared negativity makes us (not lemmings or cultists!) but whatever it was you said so many posts ago. It is insulting, and also makes it look like you feel that you are way smarter than all us fools.
“Look at mee dammit, I called you guys names!” -Trump
Why do you love it when Trump does it? Could it be because...wait for it...you’re Cultists?
@Fen:
LOL get fucked. This is exactly the response you calibrated when you attacked us Deplorable Trump Cultist Lemmings.
Aww. Somebody call the waaaambulance. Someone got their feelings hurt over something that was never said about them and are in total meltdown mode. How utterly sad and pathetic.
By the way, would you like to make a thousand dollar bet over the status of the wall at the end of Trump's term. Care to put your money where your (loud)mouth is?
traditionalguy said...
The Panhandle of Florida is close to 80% Trump supporters. And it's not because they are rural folks.They are the best educated of the families of active and retired Military Officers, Avionics experts and Weapons Engineers on this earth.
Having grown up in the Panhandle as part of a military family (father was retired AF avionics guy), I have to say you nailed it!
nob450:
I think the "given up" part is the vibe you are putting out. You do seem to parse things out to the nth.
Again, I have no idea what given up is supposed to mean in that context. Trump is going to be the president for the next two years no matter what.
The tone of your posts is Trump is a letdown...
That's exactly what I believe, and as I've said for two years now, I consider immigration the most salient issue, and I will judge Trump's presidency by that metric.
The wall isn't done yet, you people are foolishly naive to believe it ever will be.
Well I explained why I thought it was naive. In the first two years, Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and Trump had a much better shot of getting it through Congress. Now that the Democrats control the House, his chances are much less.
And you seem to take pleasure in implying that our lack of shared negativity makes us (not lemmings or cultists!) but whatever it was you said so many posts ago.
How one prioritizes immigration is one thing. What I railed against was the reflexive defense of Trump.
p.s. Fen, pay attention. See how easy it is for two people to discuss a difference of opinion without attacking each other. Good little lesson in there for you.
J. Farmer said...
@Fen:
LOL get fucked. This is exactly the response you calibrated when you attacked us Deplorable Trump Cultist Lemmings.
Aww. Somebody call the waaaambulance. Someone got their feelings hurt over something that was never said about them and are in total meltdown mode. How utterly sad and pathetic.
By the way, would you like to make a thousand dollar bet over the status of the wall at the end of Trump's term. Care to put your money where your (loud)mouth is?
And if Trump fails and the wall isn't built and the Republic is lost that is where we will be.
The battle will move to the next phase where we fight the enemies of freedom on a different battlefield.
An you will be just as useless in that fight as you are in this one.
So yeah, get fucked.
J. - Perhaps what people are looking for from you, a Trump supporter - I know I am - is maybe "Well yeah, Ryan turned out to be a snake and Trump was foolish to take him at his word. I am disappointed in the wall's progress and I have doubts he'll get it done. But he's done more about it than any other president, blah blah."
I don't think this is naive, or blind support. More of a recognition of how things are. If that's what you believe. Again, the feeling I get -- which is why I say given up -- is that you aren't seeming to acknowledge or give any weight to some of the reasons some folks have offered for the cause of the delays. Their opinion of it.
It's kind of a glass is half empty thing. Yours is half empty (seemingly), and some of the folks here would like it better if you thought it was half full.
That's how I see it.
Could it be because...wait for it...you’re Cultists?
I hope you didn’t get Mueller’s mug tattooed on your back like that one guy.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Have hope, there might still be a normal life after Trump for you poor souls.”
I no longer have hope for you Cultists.
So yeah Inga is back and as stupid and cultish as ever.
You are so useless as a human being nobody even really notices you anymore. You Mueller cult is over. Your heroes are going to go to jail.
Your posts are shorter and dumber than ever.
Meh.
But Farmer and Chuck appreciate your support at least.
Their posts get shorter as they get gun shy about getting called on their “facts” that for some reason are never questioned on MSNBC or CNN.
“But Farmer and Chuck appreciate your support at least.”
And your Cult Leader appreciates your total wholehearted surrender to his magnificence ( in his own mind and now yours too).
Shorter Inga: mememememememme
Look at ME!
What a dull thread. Farmer always turns me off.
Shorter Michael K...
“I shit myself and the attendant won’t come to change my depends. It makes me cranky.”
You do have to understand that Farmer and Chuck favor open borders for one reason: they are racists who are angry that Trump's economic policies have resulted in low unemployment figures for young black men. Competition from illegal immigrants will depress wages for those young black men and the competition from desperate men willing to take substandard wages will surely cost many young black men their jobs.
Inga said...
Well you Trumpists, soon there will be an end to your Trump worship, with the end of the investigation and when the results are revealed for the entire world to see. I just hope you all won’t have some mental breakdown over what will happen. The Nation will survive, but I’m not so sure some of your psyches will.
2/3/18, 11:40 PM
Inga needs to be reminded daily of just how laughably stupid she is.
J. Farmer: How one prioritizes immigration is one thing. What I railed against was the reflexive defense of Trump.
Most of the "reflexive defense of Trump" here isn't anything but disagreement with your own assessments.
p.s. Fen, pay attention. See how easy it is for two people to discuss a difference of opinion without attacking each other. Good little lesson in there for you.
Sorry, J., but "you started it", before Fen even showed up. Please observe the first comment on this thread. I think a little self-reflection is in order here.
Inga admitted what?
You shit yourself? I suggest you find some help for that.
@Big Mike:
You do have to understand that Farmer and Chuck favor open borders for one reason
What are you smoking? I'm for a wall, mandatory E-Verify, an entry/exist tracking system for visas, and a 10-year moratorium on all immigration. Pretty much the opposite of open borders.
@Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard:
Sorry, J., but "you started it", before Fen even showed up. Please observe the first comment on this thread. I think a little self-reflection is in order here.
Started it by talking about an amorphous group of Trump supporters who I believe have been sold out by Trump? That's a reason for Fen to take it as a personal attack on her, even though I said nothing about her or her support for Trump. I had no idea the commenters here were such thing-skinned snowflakes.
@ Michael K:
What a dull thread. Farmer always turns me off.
Oh, Michael, just admit you like me. You must've told me a dozen times now that you don't read what I write and don't respond to me. And yet you've commented numerous times on this thread and engaged with me. Yet you come back after numerous comments to tell us how bored and turned off you are?
@nob490:
J. - Perhaps what people are looking for from you, a Trump supporter - I know I am - is maybe "Well yeah, Ryan turned out to be a snake and Trump was foolish to take him at his word. I am disappointed in the wall's progress and I have doubts he'll get it done. But he's done more about it than any other president, blah blah."
I'm sorry, but that's absurd. I say what I think and am not going to couch it in a way to be maximally palatable to people that are looking to be offended. I'm talking about a political issue that nobody needs to take personally. And if they do, they need to get over themselves.
Again, the feeling I get -- which is why I say given up -- is that you aren't seeming to acknowledge or give any weight to some of the reasons some folks have offered for the cause of the delays. Their opinion of it.
Because that's not the point I was trying to make. Obviously there are external factors beyond Trump, but the entire point of what I wrote was to criticize Trump's actions.
It's kind of a glass is half empty thing. Yours is half empty (seemingly), and some of the folks here would like it better if you thought it was half full.
You are surely right that my glass is half empty. I mentioned in an earlier comment that I consider optimistic conservative to be an oxymoron. And immigration is an issue where people should always be alert for a sell out. Let's see what comes of Kushner's immigration proposal. I'm not optimistic, but at least then I can be pleasantly surprised.
Inga: Hey Fen, you dumbass, I’m the one who has been calling you people Cultists.
Oh look, the Mueller Trash Talker finally came out of exile. And is backing Farmer.
Nah. Lard-ass Inga shows up to ride the coattails of Farmer just like she does with Chuck or Ritmo. Trying to curry favor, looking for a hook-up.
Say, you guys ever see the romance going on with big brain Ritmo and saggy boobs cougar Inga? Pretty dang funny..
About 691 miles of boarder fencing so far.
I'm for a wall, mandatory E-Verify, an entry/exist tracking system for visas, and a 10-year moratorium on all immigration. Pretty much the opposite of open borders.
That sounds like a plan to me.
I notice that many employment/unemployment stories mention that employers cannot find enough workers to fill the positions. Always sounds like bS to me, propaganda in favor of lax border control, without specifically mentioning it.
Am concerned less about illegal criminals coming in than with illegals taking jobs americans can do. Also, the cost of govt assistance while homeless are shitting on the sidewalks.
Build some tent incarcerations like Sheriff Joe did in Arizona. Round up the addicts. After 30 or sixty days, some of those addicts gonna stay clean and be grateful for the opportunity to kick it. .
@FullMoon:
Agree regarding immigration. The whole thing is a wage suppression tactic. Anything supported by the Kock Brother and The Nation should be highly suspect.
Not much of a discussion if you never concede a point. All that is is a lecture.
Yet you come back after numerous comments to tell us how bored and turned off you are?
Well, you are tiresome. I can try to respond but I get worn out. You are nota troll or an Inga or Ritmo but threads that you dominate like this one never go anywhere.
nob490:
Not much of a discussion if you never concede a point. All that is is a lecture.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to concede something for the sake of doing it, and conversation does not require concession. It requires that one listens or reads what someone has to say and then give their response, which I've done, and I think I've respectfully disagreed with you. The most important part of conversation, in my opinion, is that you see the other person's point of view. I get your point of view, I just disagree with. As you do mine; that's fine.
Fernandistein @9:30 AM: I like the way you think, man!
You should sign up for my Informationist Newsletter!
Inga will support anyone who is critical of Trump. It's not about the merits of the argument, it's about the assumed Trump-hate. She --> needs at hit of that juicy Trump-Hate-Cult-Methamphetamine because her-> life fell apart on election night 2016. oh the agony.
Shorter Inga: “The end is nigh, sinners!"
Shorter Nichevo: we need foreign workers to prevent having to raise wages to attract American workers. Just another variation of "jobs Americans won't do" and "crops rotting in the fields."
Shortbus farmer: I don't care that Trump is beating the Phillips curve and nairu is 5% and he's got unemployment down to 3.6%. I don't care if the Federal Reserve is trying to shank him either. I want it all noooooow! Guess what, that's why you're not a politician. That's why nobody trusts you with their lives and fortunes except, of course, your select clientele.
@Nichevo:
That's why nobody trusts you with their lives and fortunes except, of course, your select clientele.
If by select clientele, you mean eight Florida judicial circuits, 22 counties, the Department of Children and Families, the Department of Juvenile Justice, and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement , you're right. And I'd say the 20+ people I employ on a full-time basis, the university interns, and the rotating part-time employees do rely on me, to a degree, on their livelihoods. Would you like to compare 1040s? But please, by all means, keep pretending like you know anything about me or my life, you snide prick.
p.s. I couldn't help but noticed you didn't actually dispute my point. You just hurled invective. An Althouse commentariat special. Sometimes I swear trudging through you fuckwits, I think this country deserves to sink. But only sometimes.
we need foreign workers to prevent having to raise wages to attract American workers. Just another variation of "jobs Americans won't do" and "crops rotting in the fields."
Did you ever notice that picket lines are sacred but borders are bizarre relics of history?
*Clearly* the end is nigh.
p.s. I couldn't help but noticed you didn't actually dispute my point.
This statement is false.
So Farmer still hasn't commented on the 235 miles of wall that will be completed this year?
Color me shocked.
Perhaps if it were build to guard Tehran we could get a response.
@Nichevo:
This statement is false.
A hot economy is not a reason to suppress wages at the bottom. By the way, when exactly does the business community ever say they don't need foreign workers? And from Numbers USA, an immigration restriction organization,
"The H-2B low-skilled visa is used by employers to hire cheap, foreign workers for seasonal and temporary jobs, even though H-2B visa holders can work in the country for up to 3 years at a time. The annual cap is set at 66,000, but Congress has allowed for the cap to be raised on a number of different occasions, most recently in 2017. Despite the increase of 15,000 in 2017, employers failed to request that many workers.
There have been no examples reported of businesses shutting down because of their inability to bring in more H-2B visas. But there have been a number of media reports of creative ways that seasonal businesses have been able to hire the workers they need through more aggressive recruiting of American workers and wage increases."
@Birkel:
So Farmer still hasn't commented on the 235 miles of wall that will be completed this year?
Color me shocked.
It's 256 miles according to the Pentagon, but let's not squabble. First of all, it is not a "wall," it is "physical barrier," so let's see what that entails. And there is still plenty of time for Congress or the courts to interfere. Once it gets completed and what actually gets built will need to be looked at. If it's good, it's cause for celebration. But also recall that only about $1 billion was moved over by the DOD. That is less than a fifth of the lowest request for wall funding.
@Birkel:
Perhaps if it were build to guard Tehran we could get a response.
Aww, poor Birkel, the Iranians must terrify you so much. It's amazing you can muster the courage to leave the house in the morning.
@Nobody:
Did you ever notice that picket lines are sacred but borders are bizarre relics of history?
Ha. And walls don't work!
So you admit your complaint is that you have ONLY 256 (your number) miles of new wall but you quibble at the nomenclature? What a pussy!
And then you pretend your support of the Iranians should be overlooked?
Yeah, I just note it every now and then.
As always, I respect you not at all.
P.S. I always take those who profess a will and ability to kill me seriously. I defend myself accordingly. A test of the theory that I am bull shitting will prove unsatisfying. But make yourself to home.
J. Farmer said...
@Nichevo:
This statement is false.
A hot economy is not a reason to suppress wages at the bottom.
Thank you for admitting it.
@Nichevo:
Thank you for admitting it.
Hence bringing in foreign workers to suppress low-skilled wages is not a good idea. My original point.
@Birkel:
So you admit your complaint is that you have ONLY 256 (your number) miles of new wall but you quibble at the nomenclature? What a pussy!
256 was Pat Shanahan's number. A chain-link fence is a physical barrier. It's not a wall. If you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand differences. And so far we have nothing. We have plans to build something in the future. Let's see what happens with those plans.
And then you pretend your support of the Iranians should be overlooked?
It shouldn't be overlooked; it doesn't exist. I have no idea what "support of the Iranians" even means. What Iranians? What I oppose is efforts at regime change, which the US has foolishly pursued to no end for decades. And given that the last three times the US succeeded in overthrowing a regime, the results were disasters. So I'd say history has pretty well vindicated my extreme skepticism towards regime change as a foreign policy strategy.
P.S. I always take those who profess a will and ability to kill me seriously.
That will certainly come as a surprise to the thousands of Americans who travel to Iran as tourists every year. Somehow they managed to escape a country of millions hellbent on their murder. By all means, keep believing in a caricature and certainly don't let reality intrude into your safe cocoon.
I defend myself accordingly. A test of the theory that I am bull shitting will prove unsatisfying. But make yourself to home.
Spare me the tough talking bluster. You're a mental case. Some friendly advice: take your SSI and get therapy
J. Farmer said...
@Nichevo:
Thank you for admitting it.
Hence bringing in foreign workers to suppress low-skilled wages is not a good idea. My original point.
5/9/19, 10:59 PM
My point is that you said I didn't dispute your point. You often don't dispute my points, which is sensible, but in this case you said something which was demonstrably untrue-I spare you the recapitulation. You're still wriggling because as Quint would say,
It proves that you wealthy college boys don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.
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