The giant spire has fallen and parts of the roof appear to have collapsed as a huge fire rages at Notre Dame cathedral in Paris https://t.co/NszGCr1Qag pic.twitter.com/fqIrzwcQMN— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) April 15, 2019
Notre-Dame Cathedral— Tom Hall ☘ (@TomHall) April 15, 2019
in Paris is engulfed in flames.
🇫🇷 #NotreDame #Fire #Horrifying
via @herpsonc pls follow pic.twitter.com/0ueUk9z5T0
The moment #NotreDame’s spire fell pic.twitter.com/XUcr6Iob0b— Patrick Galey (@patrickgaley) April 15, 2019
ADDED: BBC: "The cause is not yet clear, but officials say that it could be linked to renovation work.... Last year, the Catholic Church in France appealed for funds to save the building, which was crumbling. A spokesman for the cathedral said the whole structure was 'burning.' 'There will be nothing left,' he said."
AND: AP:
France’s civil security agency says “all means” except for water-dropping aircraft were deployed to tackle the blaze. The defense agency said those were unsuitable for fires like the one at Notre Dame because dumping water on the building could cause the whole structure to collapse....Earlier Trump had tweeted, "Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out," so that answers that.
A Notre Dame spokesman said earlier that the church’s entire wooden interior was in flames....MORE:
On Thursday, 16 religious statues were removed from the peak for the first time in over a century to be taken for cleaning and therefore escaped the blaze.
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217 comments:
1 – 200 of 217 Newer› Newest»Live feeds of the fire at:
https://youtu.be/O8yyiEfHIRA (English)
https://youtu.be/a-M_5rGhPdg (French)
It's bad. The spire has collapsed, the roof has fallen in.
This counts as news.
Why the crying emoji was created.
Wow. I can't imagine it will be possible to suppress this fire.
What a shame. I know people from both fringe sides will try the blame game, but it appears to be nothing more than a construction related mishap.
The rebuild will take decades, and much will be lost that can only be imitated, not fixed.
Where's the hunchback going to go now?
My guess......it's under-insured.
Where's the hunchback going to go now?
Too soon.
There was a news report this AM or yesterday that a hard drive from ISIS was found. In it, ISIS planned another attack like at the Paris concert hall. Also, truck killings and the like.
The French aren't idiots. The building must have been secure and fire protected.
Maybe some people have done something. Again.
Very sad. I always wanted to see it.
What a terrible, terrible loss.
I was much happier when there was no news.
There's a lesson there.
I see scaffolding around it. Work being done?
"Hey, Pierre, remember that time we were working on the Cathedral and you dropped your cigarette into those oily rags?"
Very sad. Hope nobody was hurt. Let's get a sense of how it started.
The cause is not yet clear, but officials say that it could be linked to renovation work.
I know nothing of how something like Notre-Dame is renovated. I wonder what potentially combustible materials are used in such renovations?
Awful. We were there maybe 10 or 15 years ago on a Sunday morning, with the great organ sounding, and the service in French (of course). It was awe inspiring. A place to feel at one with God. We toured (as was allowed) then sat with the audience for quite awhile feeling at peace and just...good.
The spire that collapsed was not original but a replica built when the Cathedral was restored in the mid 19th century. Still a terrible loss. During the French Revolution the cathedral was defiled and damaged by the looney left. Not much has changed since then.
Sad beyond tears…
News says the fire is related to a massive reconstruction project.
My fear is that the fire was started by a Muslim worker. I believe that it was first noticed ~ 6:30 pm. That could mean it was arson started by a late leaving worker. Perhaps with a fuse.
You have to think that there were portable fire extinguishers all over the place. There would be on a similar project in the US. But who would be there to use them after work hours?
On the ships, when we were in shipyards and the ship’s fire system was disabled we stationed a 24 hour watch. Kinda strange the French wouldn’t’ve done the same in an inaccessible place made mostly of wood…
I think, as they say, there’s more to the story…
Prediction: A Muslim who infiltrated the 'restoration' crew.
I will be glad to be wrong.
Maybe somebody just did something.
I have been lucky to go on a business trip to Renault in Paris for a former employer. The day we arrived, we spent a few hours walking about and one of the places we saw was Notre Dame.
This is just a terrible thing to have occurred.
Why wouldn't ISIS want to destroy one of the great symbols of Christianity?
Reconquista, baby.
How in the hell do you come to the fear that this was caused by a Muslim worker???? Seriously, this is exactly what Trump and Russia wanted to foment. Congratulations to so many of you here for falling for it.
Arguably the single most iconic structure in all of Christendom.
I see scaffolding around it. Work being done?
I was there 10. years ago and there was scaffolding. The French may be a bit slow at renovation work.
What a sad day for Paris.
It's fun to speculate about terrorism, but the scaffolding tells me it's construction-related. Someone was working with a torch. It's been burning for hours before the roof started to collapse. I hope that means they got a lot of the art out. The stones should survive ok even if everything else goes.
The Transfiguration Church on Kizhi Island in Lake Onega was built in 1714 without a single nail.
What was even more impressive was all the fucking automated fire equipment that was tucked behind every facade, and the redundant pump system fed by the lake!! They were REAL serious about no smoking!!
Sad but Paris itself won't be around much longer.
Maybe they can build a nice mosque near the rubble.
“How in the hell do you come to the fear that this was caused by a Muslim worker???? Seriously, this is exactly what Trump and Russia wanted to foment. Congratulations to so many of you here for falling for it.”
I’m surprised that Muslims weren’t blamed in the very first comment.
I wonder whether any Muslim terrorist group is stupid enough to try to claim “credit” for this, as they so often do for disasters they actually had nothing to do with. A sad loss for all of humanity.
"What a sad day for Paris"
But as with 9-11, (LLR approved description) "where some people did something", this is a great opportunity for mosque builders.
"Seriously, this is exactly what Trump and Russia wanted to foment. Congratulations to so many of you here for falling for it."
Now that is some weapons-grade irony!
"How in the hell do you come to the fear that this was caused by a Muslim worker???? Seriously, this is exactly what Trump and Russia wanted to foment. Congratulations to so many of you here for falling for it."
Nice parody.
Where's the hunchback going to go now?
He should consider Duluth.
Another piece of western history bites the dust. A horrible day for France & Catholics.
Sad, sad, sad.
Rae to Darrell:
"Where's the hunchback going to go now?"
Too soon.
I admit I'm heartsick about this...but still, Darrell's comment made me laugh.
Insurance fire.
Seriously, this is exactly what Trump and Russia wanted to foment.
My money says a Muslim will take credit for the fire.
"I’m surprised that Muslims weren’t blamed in the very first comment."
Oh Inga is back and chatting with one of her sockpuppets.
Must be lonely.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm grieving. Mourning a terrible loss. I'm Catholic and this hurts. But I know that non-Catholics are saddened.
But, ultimately ... His will be done.
I’m surprised that Muslims weren’t blamed in the very first comment.
Yeah..it's not like there is a record of Muslims committing massive acts of arson in France every year.
My wife and I went to Mass at Notre Dame in the 198os. Afterward she wanted too convert to Catholicism as the experience was so powerful.
Inga is back to reenforce the Democrat conversion to Islam.
Inga: "I’m surprised that Muslims weren’t blamed in the very first comment."
Would you believe it if it was written in a hoax dossier?
LOL
The biggest gullible lemming lecturing others!
It just keeps getting better and better.
BTW Inga, have you heard about all the Christian churches in France being desecrated?
"Anger as France sees 10 Catholic churches attacked in ONE week - 'God will forgive, NOT ME,
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1102958/christian-persecution-france-catholic-church-christianity-religion-edouard-phillipe-isis/amp
Gee, lefties in the US pull off a number of obvious hoaxes and Inga blames Trump.
Actual muslims desecrating Christian churches and Ingas response is......crickets.
'Cuz muslims.
"News says the fire is related to a massive reconstruction project."
And they pinkie swear.
I didn't really care, but now I'm saddened that my gut instinct is to wonder what the media isn't telling us.
Also, Inga's sockpuppet needs a cycle on low heat. Might catch a cold. A nurse with a pneumatic sock reeking of cat pee. However will you explain that one?
It is not unusual for renovation work to be performed on off hours to avoid interfering with daily activities.
Masonry does not react well when exposed to high temperatures.
Terrible historical and architectural loss.
Terrible religious loss.
How would you like to be the subcontractor who started the Notre Dame fire?
Or his insurance carrier?
Just wait until Inga hears about the Charlie Hebdo massacre!
Of course, none of the victims was named Heather Heyer, so...you know.
"How in the hell do you come to the fear that this was caused by a Muslim worker?"
This, of course, is also what the "good" people say after every incident that does, in fact, turn out to be committed by someone with an Islamist motive. You know, sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't, and it's best not to speculate too early in either direction. Much like a hate crime that might be a hate-crime hoax -- you don't know, but it's ridiculous to rule out any possibility just to feel morally superior.
"It just keeps getting better and better"
Yah. Notre Dame is burning to the ground and her first reaction uses it aa a prop to attack Trump. What a pathetic creature.
@Althouse, please do not lament a slow news day ever again.
Probably it was one of the crew hiding easter eggs.
I used to assume the absence of wooden benches in European cathedrals meant less chance of devastating fire, but I guess if the stuff in the roof is combustible it does not much matter what's on the floor.
To think it survived the Is-Paris-Burning? threat of summer 1944.
I do not believe a construction accident can fully engulf a cathedral unless they cut a gas line.
Also, I don't believe anything the media is saying about the facts surrounding the fire. They can't know anything yet, and have a really bad habit of lying about what they do know.
I'm very sad this happened, and hope it was not intentional.
German cities have nice new cathedrals.
Did you all also jump to the conclusion that a Muslim burned down the three churches in the South a month or so ago? Because, shockingly, a white man did it. I'm sure you all condemned white men for those actions and then jumped to the conclusion that this fire was also set by a white man. Oh... Wait. You didn't. Huh. Talk about puppets.
It's always sad to see historic buildings destroyed. After all, they don't build them like that anymore.
France - site of Islamic unrest and multiple terror attacks. Venerated Cbristian cathedral. Holy week. Yeah. Entertaining the idea that this may have been on purpose is totally unreasonable.
Fixing the roof. Are Algerians as prevalent in the French roofing trade as Mexicans are here?
Somehow when I visited I took no pictures, but I remember my awe at the beautiful stained glass. Very sad day for Paris.
At least you can still marvel at the beauty of the Georges Pompidou Center.
Wasn't "Bare, Ruined Choirs" the title of a book about the (metaphorical) effect of Vatican II on Catholicism?
"Arguably the single most iconic structure in all of Christendom."
this might a bit more iconic
I have to agree with Big Mike. Superstition, jinxes, knock in wood, whatever. We don't need another no news datu.
I wondered something similar, browndog. How does a conflagration of that magnitude occur without accelerants or multiple initiation points? Mrs. O'Leary's cow was nowhere near there.
I know consider the source:
https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800
Gosh before the fire is even out we're arguing over Muslims and white people.
As I've said to myself too many times as I wait in the security line at the airport "Al qaeda won"
Heartbreaking. One of man's beautiful creations, for the love of God.
Islamic state has put out videos targeting the Eiffel Tower that may be too resilient a target but a structure which signifies the essence of Paris for centuries that is tied in with Christianity In Europe generally.
Awful, horrible images. I pray the glass windows survive and hope the many, many artifacts and artworks usually there had already been removed for the renovation. A tragedy!
When it came to iconic religious structures in Paris I think this one gave Notre Dame a run for its money:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montmartre
Dare we say that they burned it for the Insurance policy? And now the most valuable land in Paris will be sold to raise money needed for the settlement of the cases of sexually abuse by the Priests.
No. It was a coincidence.
Perhaps it's another chapter in the clash of civilizations?
Je pleure
I see we have a new leftist troll. Maybe a sock puppet,
This thread might be more of a hot mess than Notre Dame.
Beyond tragic.
This horror would have made a fitting last chapter to Houellebecq’s “Submission” with a mosque erected on the ruins.
It would be interesting to see the reaction of the residents of Paris’ “no go” zones. Are they in tears of sorow?
Where are the fire-trucks ? Do they have those in France?
Very beautiful Cathedral - sorry to hear it. But it can be rebuilt, if they desire. The only irreplaceable things are the stained glass windows, but I assume even they can be redone, although at what cost?
If the will is there.
"A Muslim who infiltrated the 'restoration' crew."
That's your hunch.
It's in the nature of things for cathedrals to burn down. So many of the great gothic and romanesque cathedrals and churches that still exist had predecessors that burned down one after the other. (I don't know the actual overall stats, but that sure seems to be the way it often went, reading the history of those buildings.) It's a terrible irony if one that survived all the common depredations* over eight centuries should succumb to a renovation accident.
*Fires, wars, revolutionaries and other iconoclasts, being used as convenient quarries, or just falling apart from the indifference of later generations. As for that last, we have the 19th century to thank for rescuing a lot of glorious medieval architecture from oblivion and decay. (Including Notre Dame de Paris. So they can be forgiven the gargoyles.)
First Liberal Response: I hope the Muslims don't suffer - even if they burned it.
Reminds me of 911, after the first shock the Liberals were primary upset about all those American Flags, and possible prejudice against Islam. They forgot the 2,500 dead Americans in rapid time.
Inside the Cathedral was constructed with 52 acres of timber. Inside it was referred to as “the forest”
Hopefully some of the Art will be saved.
I hope I'm not going to have to post the "And its a Muslim" meme later.
The other Liberal response to these kind of things is to gate-keep and worry someone might say something bad.
I'm going to wait until the facts roll in before I judge who or why this happened.
It could be an accident for all we know.
Sockpuppet: "Did you all also jump to the conclusion that a Muslim burned down the three churches in the South a month or so ago? Because, shockingly, a white man did it. I'm sure you all condemned -'
Much better. I especially enjoyed how you lectured "you people" about stereotyping groups of people by assumption.
4.7
My wife just pointed out that this is Holy Week. Next Sunday is Easter. HMMM.
readering, you may think Montmarte is "an iconic religious structure" but Sacre Coeur basilica was built after the 1870 Franco Prussian war and construction began in 1875.
If you want an alternative religious structure, I would suggest Sainte Chapelle basilica, which was completed in 1248 and is more beautiful than Notre Dame. The Notre Dame fame really began with Victor Hugo and his novel. It was completed in 1260 so Sainte Chapelle is even older.
Thirty years ago, York Minster Cathedral in Northern England burned. It was started by lightning and some suggested it could have been a divine comment on the newly ordained liberal bishop.
We can hope that some artifacts were removed for the restoration,
For once, I'll have to agree with Inga. It is much too soon to start speculating about terrorism being behind this. I'll admit that I too thought of the World Trade Center when I watched the video of the spire falling. And I'll agree that the Islamists have worked hard to earn the distrust of us all. But we don't have any information and it is much better not to say anything than to say something that may well deserve an apology tomorrow.
I remember Hitler ordered that his retreating Wehrmacht had to burn Paris. Maybe Merkle finally obeyed the order.
It won't be rebuilt. Too expensive. No political or religious will.
While the Notre Dame burns you fools are talking about sock puppets.
readering: When it came to iconic religious structures in Paris I think this one gave Notre Dame a run for its money:
Montmartre.
Au contraire, in my opinion: St. Denis basilica is the great rival. But it's off most visitors' radar. (Montmartre, meh.)
Tradguy,
That was a hilarious comment.
Inga,
I know we shouldn't be talking about the Dem candidates and their media enablers.
Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!
Whenever the MSM -especially the New York Times - wants to stir up race hatred they start blathering about "Black churches burning" and hinting white racists are behind it. They did this years ago, and it turned out that X number of black churches burn every year. Most of them are made out of wood and there are lots of them. And then there's insurance fraud.
It'll be interesting to find out the cause. You would imagine that given the Cathedral is made out of wood, very famous, and irreplaceable that extraordinary precautions would be taken to prevent fire. But never underestimate people's stupidity.
As usual, Trump had the best response. Where are the airborne water dispensers like they use in California?
Pepin the Short burned it down before it could be turned into a Mosque.
According to Wikipedia, the [Paris Fire Brigade] consists of 8,550 personnel with 81 stations and facilities who conduct 1200 operations daily. It has:
463 pieces of equipment
130 Pumpers
63 Aerial Devices
66 Ambulances
71 Command and Patrol vehicles
133 Special Engines
Fireboats
All terrain vehicles
Four wheel drives
Since Notre Dame is located on the Ile de la Cité fairly near the shore of the River Seine where the hell are the fireboats?
NotFen Gosh. Lot's of new names suddenly appearing to support Inga. And their syntax sure is similar. Weird how they all arrived at the same time. Maybe they share the same ISP?
Well, we see monthly reports here of all the different (23?) aliases "Inga" posts under, but I say its too soon to tell.
NotFen: Ah! I see what you did there! You are so clever. I never had the opportunity to confess this, but I only come here for your sharp analysis and entertaining wit
That's very kind. Thank you.
I enjoyed Montmarte's Sacré-Cœur Basilica most. I stood in line to go up to Notre Dame's tower and it was funny because ahead of us was a German Girl who insisted on the Children's discount even though she was obviously over 21.
If one were to observe which posts are talking about sockpuppets, and note that all of those people are fools, then Royal ass Inga has called herself a fool.
Tidy.
People are saying "What about the Fire Department"? Maybe the fire got out-of-Control so quickly, that it was too late.
I hope Quasimodo is safe.
I hope Quasimodo is safe.
Singed his hump, but he's okay.
Inga reveals her natural ability as a leftwing fascist.
I hope Quasimodo is safe.
I have a hunch that he is. Sanctuary!
“It is finished”
It's not a no-news-is-good-news day any longer. It is so horribly sad to watch part of our Western heritage destroyed. You don't have to be Catholic or French (I'm neither) to mourn the loss.
Traditionalguy
Well at least there can be no insurance fires at the Presbyterian cathedrals. As there are none.
Inky is rising to be defense of Muslims before they’ve been officially accused. You go, girl!
No quarrel from me on the beauty of Sainte-Chapelle and impressiveness of St Denis. It's the prominent hilltop position that makes me point to Sacre Coeur. And I suppose now even more tourists will make the day trip to Chartres. About to make my sixth (brief) visit to Paris, where my sister lives, in June. I suppose Notre Dame will be some kind of macabre tourist site at that point.
Notre Dame gone. Do you like the world you made?
As far as architecture goes, it's not my favorite.
The gut punch for me is that we don't build grand cathedrals or buildings like that anymore.
That kind of masonry work would be impossible today. Same with the stained glass. That is what is sad.
and yes - those iconic flying buttresses. I hope they make it. Be kinda cool if they made it.
Either "somebody did something" or perhaps tragic accidental spontaneous combustion. I'm thinking about the Irreplaceable stained glass.
Fuck, just fuck.
We were there in fall of '17 and I was awed by the place. It was indeed in the midst of a major long-term renovation, and one of the most interesting parts of the visit was seeing how much they had discovered about how much and how often it been renovated and altered in the past.
There's a buttload of wood that goes into a "stone" cathedral, and it wouldn't take much, either accidentally or otherwise, to get it going.
Just fuck.
Narr
Michael is right. You can't get much by burning cheap White wooden meeting places built by the Presbyterian believers who totally forget to spend money on stained glass windows or genuine relics. We just cling to our Calvinist faith and fight for our freedoms.
The expert on France24 opined that the majority of the stained glass could be saved, and that what he called Treasures have been rescued.
Inga: "While the Notre Dame burns you fools are talking about sock puppets."
Notre Dame might have been saved if not for comments in Althouseblog.
Behold the awesome power of this Fully Operational Blog Station!
How do we blame Trump?
Did Trump manage to invent fire? I think he did, which of course makes it his fault.
Maybe the fire got out-of-Control so quickly, that it was too late.
Apparently - though not confirmed - it took two hours before the first crews got to the scene.
those iconic flying buttresses. I hope they make it. Be kinda cool if they made it.
can they stay up without the counter thrust?
Made it through the Big War for this? A national disgrace on every level. OTOH I watched the second jet hit the WTC, and vividly recall the news people discovering the things dropping from the burning building were people. Not happening here fortunately. My thought went to the movie "Is Paris Burning?".
Dave Begley: "It won't be rebuilt. Too expensive. No political or religious will."
Nonsense.
In about 20 years a mosque will sit on that site with minarets towering above all of Paris from which the call to prayer will echo around this majority Muslim city.
Women will, of course, be properly veiled because, according to leftist chicks, its really quite "empowering".....
....just dont get caught walking on the street without a male family member with you....l
I can't help it but my thoughts keep coming back to those stained glass windows.
Indeed, Michael K, my son was just saying he hopes no ember floats over to Saint Chappelle. One of the most beautiful sights your eyes can see.
If it really did take 2 hours for firefighting crews to arrive on scene then my earlier ambivalence about this is confirmed - it's not the fire the church failed to survive, it's France.
It had to have been insured. But for how much? Or maybe it was too expensive to insure. Important questions. The guy who owned the Twin Towers had just bought them. And they were insured.
Fox News has twice cut off men starting to speculate as to the cause, one a Paris politician, another an American whose credentials I didn't catch.
I was there in Paris in the early 80s and Notre Dame was my first stop. Unfortunate because I forgot I had B&W film in my camera and have all these boring pictures of those glorious windows.
Chartres still stands.
Houellebecq weeps
The Dresden Frauenkirche has been nicely restored from a pile of rubble. The Teatro la Fenice in Venice has burnt down twice and been restored twice.
mockturtle: Thirty years ago, York Minster Cathedral in Northern England burned. It was started by lightning and some suggested it could have been a divine comment on the newly ordained liberal bishop.
No doubt!
York Minster was my first experience of great gothic architecture, long long ago when I was young and passionate and acutely aesthetically sensitive. (It blew me away and set me on a path.)
Re York Minster, I was looking up something or other a few years ago and came upon what seemed to be some semi-official tourist site for the city of York, wherein the web-writer explained that the Lady Chapel was the part of the church for women to pray and hear Mass. (Groan, beat head into desk. Are these people really *that* ignorant about the things they presume to write about?)
I've seen news reports that say they wouldn't drop water from airborne vehicles for fear the weight of the water would do as much damage as the fire. Don't know about flame retardant chemicals.
I can't imagine anyone insuring an 850 year old wooden structure against fire, unless there was state-of-the-art fire suppression equipment throughout. Theft, damage, etc, sure.
Donald Trump, amateur firefighter.
can they stay up without the counter thrust?
My thought exactly.
It makes me think of Winston Churchill when asked about his religion.
France has a bunch of spare Notre Dames -
Notre-Dame de Fourvière
Notre Dame, Amiens
Notre-Dame de Bayeux
Notre-Dame de Chartres
Notre-Dame de Laon
Notre-Dame de Rouen
Notre-Dame-de-Strasbourg
Notre-Dame of Dijon
Notre-Dame, Melun
Notre Dame de l'Assomption, Metz
Notre-Dame la Grande, Poitiers
Notre-Dame de la Garde, Marseille
Notre-Dame de Nice (been to that one)
Notre-Dame de Reims
Notre Dame des Cyclistes, Labastide-d'Armagnac
Notre Dame du Haut, Ronchamp
Notre-Dame, Villeneuve-sur-Yonne
rcocean: I enjoyed Montmarte's Sacré-Cœur Basilica most. I stood in line to go up to Notre Dame's tower and it was funny because ahead of us was a German Girl who insisted on the Children's discount even though she was obviously over 21.
I've skipped the tower because I get very claustrophobic (and, yeah, the line, even in the off-season). My more line-tolerant and non-claustrophobic husband went up, and the visitors were warned to avoid brushing their clothing against some permanently-staining goo of some sort that was native to the stairs. Natch, he got it all over his pants. Refused to throw out the pants, because, hey, it's Notre Dame goo! - a precious souvenir, he joked. Still has those pants, joke not so funny now.
This is a great architectural and historical loss for the world. You don't rebuild something like this.
This destruction is not just a little symbolic, to me.
It is certainly too early to speculate on what or who may have cause the fire to start. I pray that it is an accidental cause and that people will be cautious in their speculating.
Anything other than accidental will have repercussions that I don't even want to consider. A new crusade with modern technology is unthinkable. Civilization and especially civilization in Europe is already teetering on a knife's edge.
The lost of the beautiful and religiously sacred structure is a tragic loss. The historical value is incalculable. Emerging from the Dark Ages and entering early Medieval times, the Cathedral is a symbol of the recovery of Western Civilization from those long years after the fall of the Roman Empire.
Destroyed and never to be recovered. What a terrible blow.
I'm sure you all condemned white men for those actions and then jumped to the conclusion that this fire was also set by a white man. Oh... Wait. You didn't. Huh. Talk about puppets.
That's a non sequitur. What does that have to do with (sock) puppets?
When they rebuild, they can do that glass pyramid thing like they put in over at the Louvre. Glass is cheaper than gargoyle.
The statements of Cathedral workers are that the fire was deliberately set in the front center of the building after the last tourists had left. Who set it or why they set it is not reported. But false flag disasters used to distract world news coverage of bad stuff coming out that the Globalists want to be ignored usually happens a day or two before the big revelation that the Globalists fear to be coming out.
One shudders to speculate on what sort of modernist eyesore will be built on the site. A parking garage, perhaps? Or a glass-skinned office building shaped like a rutabaga?
It is a great pity, they don't build them like that any more. Or anything, really.
Here's a good video of God letting the tower fall over.
I think Paris needs a Trump Tower to help it heal. Make it great again.
readering: No quarrel from me on the beauty of Sainte-Chapelle and impressiveness of St Denis. It's the prominent hilltop position that makes me point to Sacre Coeur.
Ah well, St. Denis is there at that fine location, too, in spirit. (Him being the martyr in Montmartre and all.) It's all good.
And I suppose now even more tourists will make the day trip to Chartres. About to make my sixth (brief) visit to Paris, where my sister lives, in June. I suppose Notre Dame will be some kind of macabre tourist site at that point.
It's always a good thing to have a sib living in Paris, if one can swing it. (None of mine are co-operating on that point.) We're heading out to France in the fall to walk the Via Podiensis, having planned to bypass Paris completely this visit. Deo volente, the glorious churches in Conques, Moissac, etc. will still be awaiting us, and we can console ourselves that way, at least.
We're heading out to France in the fall to walk the Via Podiensis,
Mont San Michel is also a great spot. To stay the night on the island requires reservations well in advance and you have to move your car after the tourists start to leave as the tide will carry it away if left in the lower lots,.
At least the 16 valuable religious statues were carefully removed to storage before they torched it.
I remember having clients seeking Insurance claim payments whose homes expensive had suddenly burned up while they were on vacation. The first thing Insurance investigators look for is whether any special collections of the owners, such as gun collections were removed just before before the structure was torched "by strangers."
The Insurance Co's tactics is not to pay the claim for as long as possible. Which is why a lawyer gets hired to speed it up. Anyway, they will rather be sued to a certain point. The reason is they know the fire setters are usually hired guys that will confess if necessary to beat some other wrap and get a deal.
So we have to wait and see who gets the Seth Rich treatment in Paris soon.
Why think Muslim extremists were behind it? I don't know, ask the Guardian.
Applying Occam's razor here, it's unlikely this was terrorism. Having been a welder most of my life, I'm keenly attuned to the phrase, "the conflagration was caused by a spark from a welder's torch." Since the cathedral was under active restoration, it is entirely likely that a welder was working somewhere. With so much at stake, if that turns out to have been the cause, the welder should have had spotters working with him, extinguishers in hand. We'll see.
"Did you all also jump to the conclusion that a Muslim burned down the three churches in the South a month or so ago? Because, shockingly, a white man did it. I'm sure you all condemned white men for those actions and then jumped to the conclusion that this fire was also set by a white man. Oh... Wait. You didn't. Huh. Talk about puppets."
That's right. Because white people can't be Muslim.
I agree with everything DustBunny Queen wrote.
This is horrifying.
I had forgotten about that incident, I was thinking more along the lines of the Islamic state and al queda threats against the Eiffel tower, the first time beginning in 94, they made a film about it, yes soumission was at the back of my mind,
Since the cathedral was under active restoration, it is entirely likely that a welder was working somewhere. With so much at stake, if that turns out to have been the cause, the welder should have had spotters working with him, extinguishers in hand. We'll see.
I disagree. Fire was identified at 6:30pm IF, France operated with the same safety protocols we operate under here in the USa by OSHA code. 1st the area would have been cleared of combustibles, and/or portable fire barriers used. A fire watch would have been required for at least 2 hours after the last torch or welder finished, but I'm working from memory. All of this would have been laid out in a written hot work permit required for each unique event.
These are our OSHA requirement, under some extreme cases, insurance carriers required additional safety measures. I'm making assumptions the EU's regulations are even more restrictive.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/scott-whitlock/2019/04/15/shepard-smith-wont-allow-discussion-attacks-french-churches-not
Anything other than accidental will have repercussions that I don't even want to consider.
Anything other than accidental will have no repercussions at all.
These Cathedrals were built from the Medieval equivalents of duct tape and chewing gum. It wasn't until the 'rechristianisation' post 1872 that serious work started being done ...still before an honest understanding of modern architectural engineering concepts, such as strength of materials, etc, came into play.
Go into nearly any cathedral in Western Europe, and you are going to see Problems. In terms of destruction: hell, I'd say that far more French cathedrals were destroyed by Americans, British, Germans than by anyone else, and more spectacularly so,during the first 1/2 of rhe 20th century.
The spire that came down was a post 1872 reproduction, apparently, the gargoyle being a Leduc self portrait. But... MUsL!mS! TeRRoR!!1!
Would be interesting to see how OSHA regs hold in foreign nations, on buildings that predate OSHA by nearly a millenium.
Gargoyle means to gargle.
I had no idea. Great link at the bottom, Ann. Thanks.
Roughcoat, 1:34: Beautifully put. Just thanks, from a non-Catholic who is so sorry to read this news.
traditionalguy said...
How nice for you that there is no one and nothing on this earth that you would regret perishing in fire.
Angle-Dyne remarks: York Minster was my first experience of great gothic architecture, long long ago when I was young and passionate and acutely aesthetically sensitive. (It blew me away and set me on a path.)
When we were in York a month or so before the fire we couldn't find a place to park! And then, my husand's elderly aunt, who was with us, became ill so we took her home. So I never did get to see it, other than from outside. Like you, I love Gothic architecture and England has a lot of it, some in ruins, but still beautiful.
Macron is promising to rebuild it.
Reconquista, baby.
In Paris it would just be Conquista, baby.
I don't think the fire was in any way intentional, but someone screwed up on a literally monumental scale. Something like this should not happen in this day and age.
And Quasi' said he gave up smoking. Hmm...
Bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang. In another few centuries, the remains will be poignant. This happened during Holy Week. Not a good augury. If it had happened a few centuries earlier, witches would have been burnt.
"I don't think the fire was in any way intentional..."
Based on what?
Blogger lawyapalooza said...
Did you all also jump to the conclusion that a Muslim burned down the three churches in the South a month or so ago? Because, shockingly, a white man did it.
Left wingers have now identified 4,257 of the last three church fires by whites...and they're bragging about it. Is it a coincidence Chris David hit a home run today? Maybe the Orioles should offer him an extension.
I suspect either arson or French stupidity. It can be either one.
Something that finally made me unfollow The Onion, An article about Jesus crying over his crown being lost in the blaze. Just crass and not remotely funny.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
While the Notre Dame burns you fools are talking about sock puppets.
While Notre Dame burned your first instinct was to come here to attack those you hate.
The new Notre Dame better be more inclusive. Paint some gay black men on there, like the Virgin Atlantic planes!
they still have the plans from a 150 years ago?
Look. Get your speculations in now. Because experience tells us that if it is religiously motivated arson, it will be officially buried. You can hold your hand to your heart, lift your eyes to the sky and say let's wait for the truth to come out, but if the truth is inconvenient, it won't come out easily. If we're waiting for anything, let's wait to see if there's any dancing in the Parisian "suburbs." Let's see who is crying real tears, and who is notable by their silence or faint "regret." That will tell us far more than any official explanation.
Just keep it as is. Ruins are worthwhile to gaze upon.
I was very amazed to learn that ND Cathedral is Ground Zero for France, it is literally the geographic center of the entire country. Notre Dame is owned by the French government, not the Catholic Church which might account for why there has been so much trouble raising money for the necessary renovations. Will the new ND be a multifaith facility?
We Americans have a tiny chapel at the geographic center of the US in Kansas called the US Center Chapel . It's a replacement actually, according to the website the original chapel was destroyed by a speeding vehicle missing the turn at the T intersection at the end of K-191 Highway on June 1, 2008. There's that to be said for going minimal.
"I was very amazed to learn that ND Cathedral is Ground Zero for France, it is literally the geographic center of the entire country."
C'est what?
"Look. Get your speculations in now. Because experience tells us that if it is religiously motivated arson, it will be officially buried."
I find it disturbing (though sadly familiar) that officials are already ruling out arson. They can't possibly know.
Passive Aggressive says...
“While Notre Dame burned your first instinct was to come here to attack those you hate.”
No this is what my first instinct was, you pathetic POS.
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
What a sad day for Paris.
4/15/19, 1:27 PM
Upon reflection, if the fire was started by workers they could know already, though to my knowledge no details to that effect have been reported.
Apparently there were no workers in their at the time:
Hmmm, then how can they already know what happened?
Stanford political scientist Eric Min found that terrorists took credit for only 4,000 incidents in the Global Terrorism Database. There were over 30,000 unique events he studied. So 26,000 incidents went unclaimed. Terrorists prefer to remain anonymous.
If someone did this thing, he will likely keep quiet.
Inga,
Do you take stupid pills first thing in the morning or do you come by it naturally? MAGA
Well that was one account on Facebook, other people say otherwise.
I won't go so far as to approve the state ownership of Nôtre-Dame, but at least the re-construction will be of Nôtre-Dame and not the building of some hideous contemporary pile like that Mahony cathedral in LA.
I saw an old Unitarian church burned in a controlled burn exercise (the congregation had moved to a larger facility); when the blaze reached the top of the spire, the big wooden question mark atop it ignited and within minutes, fell to the ground.
THEOLDMAN
I’m so obsessed with Inga that I can’t stop by any thread without mentioning her. I’m just pulling her braids to get her attention.❤️
I'm betting a quasi-modo did it.
Well, it was, like, over 100 years old, way older even than the Constitution, built by patriarchal Catholics, DWEM oppressors, so it was about time they made room for affordable housing. Though it looks like the structure survived.
Inspector Clouseau checked it out yesterday and reports no problems.
Le Sûrete is now trying to locate him.
France will need les peuple des Gilets Jaune for the rebuild and graduates of
École Polytechnique.
NOT Sciences Po.
Let's see who steps up.
They clearly cannot build to Code Bruxelles.
Interesting frictional time ahead.
Being officially atheist it will be interesting if Macaroni speaks to/for the nation.
I saw an old Unitarian church burned in a controlled burn exercise (the congregation had moved to a larger facility); when the blaze reached the top of the spire, the big wooden question mark atop it ignited and within minutes, fell to the ground.
Good one, Marcus!
No this is what my first instinct was, What a sad day for Paris.
If that was your instinct you would have said it to someone else. Your only purpose in being here is to spew hatred. You came here because your reaction to every ill including murders is to use them politically.
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