July 23, 2018

Trump's all-caps warning to Iran's Rouhani: "BE CAUTIOUS."


Rouhani's threat, directed at Trump, came in a speech on Sunday, reported in Al Jazeera:
"Do not play with the lion's tail or else you will regret it.... Peace with Iran would be the mother of all peace and war with Iran would be the mother of all wars."
Addressing Trump's sanctions affecting the sale of Iranian oil:
"Is it possible that everyone in the region sells their oil and we stand idly by and watch?... Do not forget that we have maintained the security of this waterway [Strait of Hormuz] throughout history. We have historically secured the route of oil transit. Do not forget it."
Addressing U.S. government encouragement of dissent in Iran: "You cannot provoke the Iranian people against their own security and interests."

From the NYT article on the tweet, there's this about a speech by Secretary of State Pompeo earlier in the day:
“Governments around the world worry that confronting the Islamic Republic harms the cause of moderates, but these so-called moderates within the regime are still violent Islamic revolutionaries with an anti-America, anti-West agenda... You only have to take their own words for it.”

Mr. Pompeo also sought to reach out to the people of Iran in his speech and messages posted online. “The United States hears you. The United States supports you. The United States is with you,” he tweeted Sunday in Persian and English.

Mr. Trump’s tough talk with Iran comes as he continues to face fierce criticism over his meeting last week with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and vacillating statements over whether he believes Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
Meddling. We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with.

263 comments:

1 – 200 of 263   Newer›   Newest»
rehajm said...

We do meddle but the demand not to be meddled with is really just more meddling.

rehajm said...

Investigating meddling is meddling.

Owen said...

ALL CAPS IS BULLYING.

Meddling should be more subtle and refined.

Heartless Aztec said...

We launch cruise missles when we meddle.

Humperdink said...

Our navy is meddling in the Meddle East. Primarily in the Meddleterranean Sea.

Pinandpuller said...

Our GPS's are all updated, bitches!

Heartless Aztec said...

A Tomahawk as calling card if you will.

Heartless Aztec said...

We're here to meddle and fuck you up.

rhhardin said...

It's a cruise missive.

traditionalguy said...

May the best meddler win.

Clyde said...

I would have no problem with changing our national motto to "Don't Mess With Us!"

becauseIdbefired said...

Our cyber-espionage team would never hack into any other sovereign government's property. Or, at least, it would never get caught doing it, which is the real crime. Our cyber operations are competent, unlike those Russians leaving IP address trails Mueller could find, when naturally Russia hosts a large portion of the darknet, which specializes in hiding IP addresses. But Russia's government cyber espionage is massively incompetent. And of course, Stuxnet was someone else's operation.

And usually we don't have the patience for all this cloak and dagger stuff. Instead, we invade countries, and/or kill their leaders when we don't like them. Even when we get it wrong, like Iraq WMDs.

Ann Althouse said...

Can someone do an image of the Gadsden flag with the words "Don't Meddle With Me"?

Narayanan said...

@surfed ... All said with Hans and Franz vibe

traditionalguy said...

One wonders if Rods of God have WWII style nose art on them boasting death to enemies, like Trump tweets.

Humperdink said...

On the foreign policy front, Trump has shown his mettle once again.

Owen said...

Who will rid us of this meddlesome mullah?

Kevin said...

Did the Iranians not know the “mother of all” line has been tried with the US before?

Kevin said...

Remember when the Green Movement stood up and Obama stood down?

Good times!

Michael K said...

A nice summary of the hysteria of the past 18 months.

By VDH who is getting a bit annoyed by the left.

Democrats privately acknowledge that Obama wrecked the Democratic Party—losing Congress, the presidency, state and local offices, and now the Supreme Court. But they must praise the forces of that wreckage and seek to trump them by becoming the party of hyper-identity politics. In other words, the Democrats know what sort of agenda might bring them back into power as it did in 1992. But they feel that Clintonesque cure is worse than the disease of being in the purer political wilderness without power.

So, for now, they rant, they rave, and they stew, accepting that they cannot do what might save them and therefore they only do more of what is destroying them. Out of that lose-lose dilemma was birthed Trump hatred. Without a persuasive argument, progressives came up with the mantra that Trump is a traitor, and that all they needed to do was to explain to supposedly dense voters that their current economic renaissance was actually jackbooted National Socialism.

How far will the Left go? I fear that we have seen nothing yet.


Iran cannot close the Strait of Hormuz because they are dependent on it.

Maybe that is why they have stopped harassing US ships. We are now the oil exporter.

Big Mike said...

“Governments around the world worry that confronting the Islamic Republic harms the cause of moderates, but these so-called moderates within the regime are still violent Islamic revolutionaries with an anti-America, anti-West agenda... You only have to take their own words for it.”

There’s a degree of clarity in that statement that is utterly remarkable. I can picture a nearly empty State Department building in Foggy Bottom as every graduate of the Foreign Service Institute lies Home in bed unable to cope with concepts like speaking the truth.

Kevin said...

People say they don’t know what was discussed between Trump and Putin.

I assume it was how much better their lives would be if they could collectively deal with North Korea, Syria and Iran.

After that it must have been hard for them to keep a straight face while the press prattled on about how somebody leaked John Podesta and Donna Brazille’s actual thoughts during an election two years ago.

Narayanan said...

@Kevin ... Green for Iranians means freedom.
Green in the US , Europe etc means goes for socialism.
Dems / Obama know this.

exhelodrvr1 said...

As did previous administrations.

Michael K said...

A nice and realistic speech about Iran by Pompeo.

Their nuclear deal didn’t make them moderates; it made them wolves in sheep’s clothing. Governments around the world worry that confronting the Islamic Republic harms the cause of moderates, but these so-called moderates within the regime are still violent Islamic revolutionaries with an anti-America, anti-West agenda. You only have to take their own words for it.

It sounds like the weather in the Persian Gulf is getting warmer.

Darkisland said...

Traditional guy

Do you have any examples of us wwii nose art showing death to our enemies or the like?

I've seen a lot of nose art and most is either pinups or cartoon characters like Mickey Mouse or Snuffy Smith.

John Henry

Oso Negro said...

Fuck the Iranians! The sons of bitches grabbed our diplomats and the situation should have ended in three days. They have been marching around chanting “Death to America” for the past 40 years. Trump is saying “knock it off”. High time, to my mind.

Paco Wové said...

"We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with."

When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Darkisland said...

Michael K.

Thanks for the vdh excerpt. He is right, Obama did trash the Democrat Party and what we are seeing now is its death throes.

Design or incompetence? Who cares? The result is the same.

President Trump is Obama's legacy. Thank you President Obama!

I'd credit the commenter who said that if I could remember who it was. Greatest line I've ever seen here.

John Henry

tim in vermont said...

I don’t think that making a threat you are not willing to back up is a good idea, but Trump has done a lot of things that I though were wrong headed that then worked out.

Bay Area Guy said...

TR: "Speak softly but carry a large stick"

DJT: "Tweet loudly and carry a large stick"

Robert Cook said...

"People say they don’t know what was discussed between Trump and Putin.

"I assume it was how much better their lives would be if they could collectively deal with North Korea, Syria and Iran."


What trouble are North Korea, Syria, and Iran causing the U.S. or Russia? How would our lives or theirs be "better" if we "dealt with" these nations?

Sebastian said...

"We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with."

We openly meddle and yet progs temporarily, in their usual instrumental fashion, demand not to be meddled with, unless it involves British spies and Russian officials peddling dossiers and Australian diplomats helping to mount stings to destroy GOP candidates.

FIFY.

HT said...

"BE CAUTIOUS"

Because you too might receive a visit from me to your fair country the way North Korea did. Just check with my officials on what we like for breakfast. Thanks!

daskol said...

Meddling kids (safe for work)

in raising the stakes with Iran, we can expect another round of bashing our European allies. Belgium, Germany in particular, but others also, trade heavily with Iran, both directly and through Iraq to evade sanctions. GWB worked very hard to get Euros to cooperate in a tough sanctions regime, and BHO quickly dismantled. it. lack of their own sources for carbon fuels leads Euros into partnerships with some of the most globally meddlesome regimes.

Robert Cook said...

"President Trump is Obama's legacy. Thank you President Obama!

"I'd credit the commenter who said that if I could remember who it was. Greatest line I've ever seen here."


Well, I've never said "Thank you President Obama!" (for anything), but I have pointed out here that Trump is Obama's legacy, (and the legacy of the Democratic Party). I'm sure others have made similar observations.

Robert Cook said...

Oh...Obama didn't trash the Democratic Party...they've done this to themselves. Obama was just part of the process.

chuck said...

> yet demand not to be meddled with.

My understanding is that foreigners should just send money. It's fungible.

David Begley said...

Morning Joe speculated this AM that Trump did that tweet because he’s worried about Michael Cohen. I kid you not.

Trump has exposed the MSM for the insane partisans they are.

JackWayne said...

“Meddling. We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with.”

It’s what you do when you’re the grandest Empire of all time. It’s very hard to let go the tail of the tiger and live afterwards.

Chuck said...

"Meddling. We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with."

Althouse, once again you have set up a great discussion point that, in the age of Trump, won't get any kind of a great discussion. As seen in many of the comments above in just the space of a couple of hours.

From you, Althouse, I am wondering if your aim is to use our national opposition to the Iranian regime -- with which Trump wholly agrees -- to diminish our national opposition to Russia's history of meddling with western elections and governmental operations. Make the whole notion of "meddling" more universal, and less serious, particularly so as to try to make the ongoing Special Counsel investigation less serious?

Personally, I like the notion that the one time (one time that I am aware of) that Scott Adams has completely lost his shit and started spluttering comments like, "I no longer care about the fucking law," was in the immediate aftermath of the execution of the SDNY search warrants on Michael Cohen. Adams wanted absolutely everybody connected with that warrant to be summarily fired, on the spot. I gather that among Trump's fans, the ongoing investigations are a hot-button of almost incalculable emotional importance.

MikeR said...

"Meddling. We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with."
"The strong do as they will, and the weak suffer what they must."
It would be nice if we could put down the mantle of Policeman/Emperor of the World. But there are others who would like to be Emperor in our place.

Jason said...

To dreamers: NEVER DEFER UR DREAMS AGAIN OR IT MIGHT DRY UP LIKE A RAISIN IN THE SUN OR FESTER LIKE A SORE AND THEN RUN OR MAYBE IT WILL SAG LIKE A HEAVY LOAD. OR IT COULD EXPLODE! BE CAUTIOUS!

Bob Boyd said...

"If there is anything to criticize about Trump’s summit with Putin it is that it came too late. It should have happened a year ago. That it happened this week speaks not to Trump’s eagerness to meet Putin but to the urgency of the hour.
After securing control over the Deraa province along Syria’s border with Jordan last week, the Assad regime, supported by Iranian regime forces, Hezbollah forces and Shiite militia forces began its campaign to restore regime control over the Quneitra province along the Syrian border with Israel.

As Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and all government and military officials have stated clearly and consistently for years, Israel cannot accept Iranian presence in Syria. If Iran does not remove its forces from Syria generally and from southern Syria specifically, there will be war imminently between Israel, Iran and its Hezbollah, Shiite militia and Syrian regime allies.

Israel prefers to fight that war sooner rather than later to prevent Iran and its allies from entrenching their positions in Syria and make victory more difficult. So, in the interest of preventing such a war, Trump had no choice but to bite the political bullet and sit down to discuss Syria face to face with Putin to try to come up with a deal that would see Russia push Iran and Hezbollah out of Syria.

From what the two leaders said at their joint press conference it’s hard to know what was agreed to. But Netanyahu’s jubilant response indicates that some deal was reached.

Certainly their statements were strong, unequivocal signals to Iran. When Trump said, “The United States will not allow Iran to benefit from our successful campaign against ISIS,” he signaled strongly that US forces in eastern Syria will support Israel in a war against Iran and its allied forces in Syria just as it fought with the Kurds and its other allies in Syria against ISIS.

When Putin endorsed Israel’s position that the 1974 Syrian-Israeli disengagement agreement must be implemented along the border, he told the Iranians that in any Iranian-Israeli war in Syria, Putin will not side with Iran.

Time will tell if we just averted war. But what we did learn is that Israel’s position in a war with Iran is stronger than it could have been if the two leaders hadn’t met in Helsinki."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/07/20/who_is_betraying_america_137582.html

Jason said...

To my wife: NEVER EAT THE LAST PLUM IN THE ICE BOX AGAIN I DON'T CARE HOW SWEET AND COLD THEY WERE I WAS SAVING THEM FOR BREAKFAST U WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW HAVE SUFFERED BEFORE! I AM NO LONGER A HUSBAND WHO WILL SUFFER UR GLUTTONY & AVARICE! BE CAUTIOUS!

rehajm said...

..started spluttering comments like, "I no longer care about the fucking law," was in the immediate aftermath of the execution of the SDNY search warrants on Michael Cohen.

He was disturbed because government actors were willing to destroy attorney client privilege in the name of a partisan witch hunt trying overturn the results of an election.

HT said...

Chuck, I stand by my comment and am quite pleased with it, thank you very much.

Jason - u r funny.

rehajm said...

rehajm said...
Presidential tweeting is the updated equivalent of the candid-comment-into-a-hot-mic-trick lefties used to love. At least when they did it.

7/23/18, 4:56 AM Delete

Bob Boyd said...

When you're tweeting, you must also be very sure that you’re not turning your art form into a gourmet experience for textual fudge-makers...

mockturtle said...

It would be nice if we could put down the mantle of Policeman/Emperor of the World. But there are others who would like to be Emperor in our place.

So very true, Mike. Power abhors a vacuum.

etbass said...

"I gather that among Trump's fans, the ongoing investigations are a hot-button of almost incalculable emotional importance."

It's the huge sense of injustice that angers Trump fans. They know that all the evidence so far reveals malfeasance among Obama and Clinton people and none of any significance against Trump.

sykes.1 said...

You can shut down all shipping in the Persian and Oman Gulfs by putting a single RPG into a single freighter. The maritime insurance companies would cancel all insurance on all ships in the region, and the ship owners would remove their ships from it. The result is no exports from the region and no imports (food, medicine, manufactured goods) to it. Other results are market crashes and economic depression, a real one this time, and likely nuclear war.

And how does the US reboot the trade? You have to occupy 1,000 miles of Iranian coast line all the way inland to the Zagros Mountains. That is simply not doable, and the attempt would be a very large ground war that would make 'Nam look like a picnic. Think Western Front in WW I or Eastern Front in WW II. And like 'Nam and Korea and Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria ..., we lose.

But the fake American neocons get their war. May God damn their souls to Eternal Hell.

Darrell said...

Chuck will never stop fucking the chicken.

Chuck said...

etbass said...
"I gather that among Trump's fans, the ongoing investigations are a hot-button of almost incalculable emotional importance."

It's the huge sense of injustice that angers Trump fans. They know that all the evidence so far reveals malfeasance among Obama and Clinton people and none of any significance against Trump.


How many indictments? How many guilty pleas?

I'm quite satisfied to rest with whatever the evidence shows. I'm also confident that we haven't seen much of the evidence, yet.

Chuck said...

Darrell said...
Chuck will never stop fucking the chicken.


And you -- among a few others -- will never stop it with the personal attacks on me that veer entirely away from the blog post in question. Your personal attacks that take up space, that steer things into personal fights among the commenters, and generally degrade the conversation on whatever point that Althouse raised in the first instance.

Given the duration and the regularity of your offenses, I really don't know why she tolerates your "clutter," as she puts it.

Ray - SoCal said...

But the chicken asked for it...

Sebastian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

"It would be nice if we could put down the mantle of Policeman/Emperor of the World. But there are others who would like to be Emperor in our place."

True.

It would be nice to have a real rule-based order, but in fact we have one based on American hegemony, to tame the bad guys, open the sea lanes, and balance power in favor of a semblance of cooperation and peaceful exchange. It's expensive but it also has great benefits for us. Our cost-benefit analysis is changing, as are our relative capacities, whether Trump is in the White House or not.

But the question is always about the alternative. What would the world look like if we didn't "deal with" Iran and NK, if we didn't stand up for Poland and the Baltic states, if we didn't maintain a strong navy and global outposts, and so on? It would save us $$ and trouble, but problems may well spill over in a way that hurts us.

Of course, that doesn't entail any particular policy action. I like hearing frank talk against the mullahs but whether it helps us or the Iranians in the long run remains to be seen.

Michael K said...

Chuck is still hoping for that smoking gun.

Jason said...

I don't know why anybody tolerates Chuck after his Captain Queeg-like pumpkin pie fiasco.

rehajm said...

We should also all be up to speed with Trump's strong words first/walk back second tactic by now. How long before we can start taking points off for not recognizing it or not choosing to recognize it?

Darrell said...

Personal attacks are easier than addressing your distortions one-by-one. And make no mistake, they are intentional distortions of the truth. Want an example? Your rant fro yesterday that Trump was a liar when he said Obama wiretapped him--eve though the evidenve that's been uncovered clearly points in that direction. Why was he a liar (in your opinion)? Oh, well, he didn't lay out 147 pages of evidence in the original Tweet. Pathetic. If I tell you your hair in on fire, out it out. Don't wait for my explanation of fire and the combustibility of various materials. etc.

Chuck said...

Jason said...
I don't know why anybody tolerates Chuck after his Captain Queeg-like pumpkin pie fiasco.


Chocolate pecan pie.

And remember, I didn't start that with a comment here. I emailed Althouse about it. She turned it into a blog post.


The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

“Blogger Jason said...
I don't know why anybody tolerates Chuck after his Captain Queeg-like pumpkin pie fiasco.”

The village idiot is as much a part of of the local scene as the blacksmith and the priest.

gspencer said...

If the PC-riddled DOD ever got the authority from DJT to move forward WITHOUT any Rules of Engagement Iran would be done for in short order. And I mean, short order.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

A commenter here named Michael ( not senile Michael K) always says people using all caps are crazy.

Chuck said...

Darrell, neither Obama nor anybody on his staff has ever given more than a Tweet's worth of explanation describing what the fuck Trump was talking about in his maniacal claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower.

Trump hasn't done it; nobody else has done it on his behalf. It is a defamatory allegation; that Obama, personally, arranged for an illegal wiretap of Trump Tower. And now Trump is the President, with the full power of the Executive Branch to back him up and to investigate illegalities and expose them, if not prosecute them.

But Trump plays a role of a kind of a Fox News Channel pundit. Talking, and Tweeting about what he sees on television, or reads in the newspaper, or what "many people are saying." Meanwhile, when reporters asked what the hell the President meant by those Tweets, the answer was to refer them to media reports. In court filings, the government said, "Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets..."

So nothing -- no substance at all -- to back up the president's Tweets about an Obama wiretap.

And now, you have succeeded in moving this comments page even farther off line.

J. Farmer said...

@MikeR:

It would be nice if we could put down the mantle of Policeman/Emperor of the World. But there are others who would like to be Emperor in our place.

Who are these "others who would like to be" Emperor of the World? Even if such regimes with global ambitions did exist, they would have no practical means of ever achieving it. The United States cannot even be "Policeman/Emperor of the World," and indulging this delusion is a dangerous habit for the United States. In the post-WWII era, when US power was likely at its height, we got bogged down in a war on the Korean peninsula. What could we do about the Soviet intervention in Hungary in 1956? Or in Czechoslovakia in 1968? The US was driven out of Lebanon and driven out of Somalia. We have been in Afghanistan for nearly two decades and are no closer to defeating the Taliban insurgency.

Drago said...

LOL

LLR Chuck knows what is at stake for his beloved dems....and he is certainly acting accordingly.

As for Trump's policies with Iran, Trump's audience is not just the Iranian leadership, his message is to the Iranian people.

You know, the people LLR Chuck's "magnificent" obama abandoned rhetorically as much as obama abandoned his "red line" in Syria and then begged Putin to enforce it for him.

"magnificent" indeed!

Trump and his team clearly want the Mullahs (the chief sponsors of terror in the world) put on the back heels and to give sustenance to the liberating movements there.

Let's hope Trump and his team are successful because that would drive the entirety of the Left and LLR Chuck completely bonkers in this area as well as all the others.

Just this morning the MSM-ers are full Iran Leadership Protection Mode, similar to LLR Chuck's #StrongDemDefense Mode.

Michael K said...

I don't think it would ever be necessary to do what we did in Iraq. The Iranians are not Arabs and have learned a lot since 1979. I think they might abandon Islam if given the chance.

J. Farmer said...

@Sebastian:

It would be nice to have a real rule-based order, but in fact we have one based on American hegemony...

There is no American hegemony and an effort to maintain one is designed to least into destructive, counterproductive efforts. Do you want to risk thermonuclear war over Latvia? Or even Poland? I don't. How many trillions do you think we should spend trying to make Afghanistan not a failed state? We already spent trillions turning Iraq into a failed state. And we turned Libya into a failed state. And were trying to do the same thing to Syria.

What would the world look like if we didn't "deal with" Iran and NK

And what has our efforts to "deal with" Iran and NK led to at this time? It is instructive that America's massive military and intelligence apparatus and numerous defense commitments throughout the world are justified by the threat of two minuscule powers that can barely project conventional military force outside their borders. But then again, threat inflation is built into the system. The US has to constantly invent knew terrifying villains to justify its aims towards hegemony.

Chuck said...

Drago, you're another asshole like Darrell, and I don't know why Althouse tolerates you either.

You keep doing that thing where you quote me as having called Obama "magnificent," and I keep telling you to show everyone where and exactly how I might have used that word, and you never do it.

You coward; you puke. You're a troll. This isn't the first time that I have called you on this. It's not even the tenth time.

I want every reader of this blog whom Althouse might consider to be a valued, serious reader to see what the small cohort that you represent are doing with her comments pages.

HT said...

gspencer said...

If the PC-riddled DOD ever got the authority from DJT to move forward WITHOUT any Rules of Engagement Iran would be done for in short order. And I mean, short order.
7/23/18, 8:58 AM

_____________

Just like North Korea.

narciso said...

The press covers up the regimes economic chaos with a pillow, it hides the equivalent of solidarnosc, one has to go Thomas Victor to see what is going on.

Mr. D said...

Michael K said...

I don't think it would ever be necessary to do what we did in Iraq. The Iranians are not Arabs and have learned a lot since 1979. I think they might abandon Islam if given the chance.


Zoroastrianism FTW!

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

I think they might abandon Islam if given the chance.

You have made this claim several times before with regards to Iran. What makes you think that?

Drago said...

"Adam Schiff Reppublican" Chuck: "Drago, you're another asshole like Darrell, and I don't know why Althouse tolerates you either."

We are well aware of your dislike for Trump voters and strong, reflexive instincts for democrat protectionism.

We are also aware of you near psychotic need to attempt to control the Althouse Blog.

There's alot behind such behavior on your part I'm sure.

Which would explain your complete lack of inhibition in attacking children via rumor mongering and your uncomfortable habit of posting racist thoughts.

tsk tsk

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Drago, you're another asshole like Darrell, and I don't know why Althouse tolerates you either.

You keep doing that thing where you quote me as having called Obama "magnificent," and I keep telling you to show everyone where and exactly how I might have used that word, and you never do it.

You coward; you puke. You're a troll. This isn't the first time that I have called you on this. It's not even the tenth time.”



Because, as I’ve been saying, he’s a Propagandist, a troll, a Russian troll? Who knows, only Putin knows for sure, lol.

Darrell said...

neither Obama nor anybody on his staff has ever given more than a Tweet's worth of explanation describing what the fuck Trump was talking about in his maniacal claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower.

So Obama didn't Tweet his confession for multiple felonies on Twitter. Surprising. Great analysis.

I you meant Trump didn't explain himself. it's Twitter shithead! You don't have to explain yourself, the material released did that. And if we have law in this ccountry still, the convictions will support the claim.

Darrell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darrell said...

If you meant

Drago said...

"Brian Stelter Republican" Chuck: "I want every reader of this blog whom Althouse might consider to be a valued, serious reader...."

Yes, yes.

I'm quite certain you have spent literally hundreds of hours pondering the tests and measures necessary to implement what you consider to be a proper vetting system for this blogsite.

Further, I'm quite sure you believe that you and you alone are capable of implementing just such a system effectively.....for all our own benefit...of course.

The fact that Althouse has not allowed you to do so yet probably explains your incessant attacks upon her.

traditionalguy said...

Of course this tweet was a signal to the Iranian opposition that we will not abandon them this time.

Trump has been at war with the Globalists since inauguration. They had set up North Korea and Iran to threaten the USA with nuclear war. Meantime, part of the Uranium One refined Uranium was taken to Moscow by the plotter, Saint Mueller himself, to establish that the identifiable weapons made from it looked Russian.

But the largest part of that Uranium One fissionable material was secretly taken to Iran to be used on their missiles to attack the USA and blame the Russians, thus starting a USA-Russian War.

Query:When our Government itself is at war with the USA , is that Treason?

Be at peace. Our stable genius has defanged the NORKS and is close to defanging the Persians. The Globalists are Kaput and have jail cells awaiting them.

narciso said...

Chuck is like daffy in duck amok, isn't he.

Drago said...

Inga rapidly comes to the defense of LLR Chuck.

Wow.

I did not see that coming.

Why are the insane leftists like Inga so quick to defend a LLR, one has to wonder....

Chuck said...

Darrell said...
"neither Obama nor anybody on his staff has ever given more than a Tweet's worth of explanation describing what the fuck Trump was talking about in his maniacal claim that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower."

So Obama didn't Tweet his confession for multiple felonies on Twitter. Surprising. Great analysis.

I you meant Trump didn't explain himself. it's Twitter shithead! You don't have to explain yourself, the material released did that. And if we have law in this ccountry still, the convictions will support the claim.

Typo. "..neither Trump nor anyone on his staff has ever given more than a Tweet's worth of explanation."

You know, like "wouldn't."

Normally, with any civilized human being, I'd apologize for my error. But I'm not apologizing to you for anything. Certainly not this typo. Although I'm glad you gave me the chance to correct it.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

A pack of Hillarywoodland resisters are trying to get Trump banned from Twitter.

Now that would be hilarious.

chickelit said...

Politics is Olympic meddle sport.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Inga - set yourself free. WE are all Putin's trolls. Feel better?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Drago, my sweet Russian friend, why would I ever defend a Propagandist like you? I’d rather defend sincere commenters, even if I disagree with them politically than defend a troll and relentless propagandist.

Drago said...

traditionalguy: "Of course this tweet was a signal to the Iranian opposition that we will not abandon them this time."

Exactly correct.

I don't expect LLR's (LOL) from Michigan or nurses from Milwaukee to get that.

Of course, Inga now demonstrates she believes that someone (Trump) calling out a Putin ally (Iran) is actually doing Putin's bidding and those supporting the challenging of the Mad Mullahs are also Putin's henchmen!!

Perfect!!

If you side with Putin you are a Putin henchman!

If you do not side with Putin you are a Putin henchman!

If you prefer grape popsicles to ice cream cones you are Putin henchman!!

LOL

Gee, I can't imagine why the dem leadership is getting so antsy about the crazies in their base!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Inga - set yourself free. WE are all Putin's trolls. Feel better?”

No Bimbo, you’re just a run of the mill dummy.

J. Farmer said...

@traditionalguy:

Of course this tweet was a signal to the Iranian opposition that we will not abandon them this time.

There is no unified "Iranian opposition," and the notion that any such opposition was ever abandoned is simply a folk myth. The Green Movement was never about doing away with the Islamic Republic but was a support movement for the election of Mir-Hossein Mousavi as president, which they believe illegally decided in favor Ahmadinejad.

Our stable genius has defanged the NORKS and is close to defanging the Persians.

The North Koreans have likely increased their production of uranium, and they have the same amount of nuclear bombs they had before Trump's efforts. How is that being defanged? If the JCPOA falls completely, Iran will have no limits on its nuclear program, and there will be no outside inspectors on the ground to verify their activities. Again, this is defanged?

The Globalists are Kaput and have jail cells awaiting them.

Uh huh. Trying to intervene in North Korea and Iran is globalist. It does not serve American national interests. I, for one, would like a lot more energy spent on the wall and stopping immigration than I would on trying to defang North Korea or Iran.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

There's a Russian under every deplorable bed.

Drago said...

"Jim Acosta republican" Chuck knows his dem buddies are being exposed, slowly but surely.

This presents an existential blog post-persona threat to "Bowe Bergdahl republican" Chuck who has already blown the entirety of his "LLR" credibility here.

Thus, a rhetorical warning shot across the Iranian's bow must be attacked by Chuckie and his lefty allies. It has to be.

The good news is that the LLR/Pro-democrat set represents about 25 people, most of whom have already left the republican party and are open in their support for democrats.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Uh huh. Trying to intervene in North Korea and Iran is globalist.”

But not when Trump does it!!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The North Koreans have likely increased their production of uranium, and they have the same amount of nuclear bombs they had before Trump's efforts.

"Likely"?

Do offer some proof of "Likely". Thanks. I'm not saying they haven't, I just don't buy wholesale words like "Likely" or "Appears".

narciso said...

Well No, it depends what the motivation behind the intervention was,

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Chuck who has already blown the entirety of his "LLR" credibility here.”

Better an LLR than a GRU-wanna be

Michael K said...

J Farmer, mosque attendence is below 2%. The birth rate has crashed and is below Europe.

Some of my opinion is based on David Goldman' work and books.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Inga- what are you doing here? all day, again? There are Russians trolls and Putin puppets to sniff out. I bet there's one living next door to you. Get the foil, and crank up the Maddow, extra loud.

Michael K said...

Nork has seoul as hostage. Iran does not have such a hostage.

Drago said...

I'll tell you who is giving Trump's tweet some very serious consideration this morning: The Iranian Offshore Oil Company.

Not to mention whatever cyber weapons are ready to go if obama's and Putin's pals in Tehran act up further.

You might have noticed that by mid-2017 all Iranian small boat harassment of US assets in the Persian Gulf "mysteriously" stopped right about mid-2017.....

Yeah, that was "mysterious" alright!

LOL

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Inga- what are you doing here? all day, again?”

I’m earning my wages, Daddy Soros said I was slacking and I need to step it up.

Drago said...

Inga: "Better an LLR than a GRU-wanna be"

LOL

Why GRU and not FSB?

You don't even know what those are, what their history is or the role each played in the former Soviet Union.

The Parrot just copies and pastes, copies and pastes, copies and pastes, demands a cracker, copies and pastes....

narciso said...

It could be that the state variant of Veleqa al fagih is as dead as Russian orthodoxism at the time of the revolution

Michael said...

If Iran were a well-functioning constitutional democracy, or even an autocracy that minded its own business, the equivalency might make sense. But it's not, so it doesn't.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“You don't even know what those are, what their history is or the role each played in the former Soviet Union.”

No doubt you are well versed, lol.

#NotSurprised

Drago said...

Yes yes Inga. We all know how highly you regard LLR Chuck and his continuous support of every lefty talking point and narrative.

But the topic today is the Iranians and what might Trump be alluding to in his very direct threat to the Iranian Mullahs to whom obama surrendered.

The Iranian regime is in dire economic condition, there is significant opposition to the leadership in the country, and Iran's most precious economic assets are sitting in the middle of an American naval task force all the while Israel/Egypt/SaudiArabia have, under Trump prodding and coordination, expanded their campaigns against their common foe.

That's what I call leverage.

No wonder the lefty MSM'ers, obama fanboyz like LLR Chuck and you are crying in your milk.

The last thing you guys want is any pressure applied to folks who throw gays off of roofs or burn them alive in cages.

Anonymous said...

Since this is the only thread close to yesterdays examination of the FISA applications I am posting this for Inga. A paragraph by paragraph examination of the Nunes' memo with the FISA application by Byron York. The Nunes' memo appears to be accurate.

J. Farmer said...

@Dickin'Bimbos@Home:

Do offer some proof of "Likely". Thanks.

Infrastructure Improvements at North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Research Facility

narciso said...

Didn't read the next paragraph did ya?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“But the topic today is the Iranians and what might Trump be alluding to in his very direct threat to the Iranian Mullahs to whom obama surrendered.”

So why do you focus on Chuck then? Does the presence of Chuck on any given thread put you in a state of distraction and agitation? Seems so, as you cannot refrain from mentioning him in almost every comment you make, lol.

Drago said...

narciso: "Didn't read the next paragraph did ya?"

No, he did not.

From the link:

"Continued work at the Yongbyon facility should not be seen as having any relationship to North Korea’s pledge to denuclearize. The North’s nuclear cadre can be expected to proceed with business as usual until specific orders are issued from Pyongyang."

Careful Farmer, that is Inga-level analysis of a linked item.

Browndog said...

Whatever outrage MSM had to kick off the week is now going to be pushed back to at least Wednesday, Probably Thursday.

Trump's polling is up, so they'll probably run with a couple 2-a-days. Friday seems reserved for secret recordings/payments/hot chick Trump banged.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

@ J Farmer

Interesting, thanks.
"Continued work at the Yongbyon facility should not be seen as having any relationship to North Korea’s pledge to denuclearize. The North’s nuclear cadre can be expected to proceed with business as usual until specific orders are issued from Pyongyang."

Annie C. said...

Inga said...
“Chuck who has already blown the entirety of his "LLR" credibility here.”

Better an LLR than a GRU-wanna be.

I really needed that laugh today!

walter said...

"Althouse, I am wondering if your aim is to use our national opposition to the Iranian regime -- with which Trump wholly agrees -- to diminish our national opposition to Russia's history of meddling with western elections and governmental operations. Make the whole notion of "meddling" more universal, and less serious, particularly so as to try to make the ongoing Special Counsel investigation less serious?"

Ruh roh! Althouse has been caught!

Seeing Red said...

I’m going conspiracy theory. I don’t think getting Trump is just about Trump anymore. I think it’s covering something about Iran. Europe chose poorly again because they’re siding with Iran. It looks like they really need Iran’s money and access to Iran. Britain helped to try and bring Trump down. As far as I know, that’s unheard of meddling. The players are trying way too hard to keep status quo.

I hope the Iranians keep their promise and spill about all the bribes.

Drago said...

Browndog: "Trump's polling is up, so they'll probably run with a couple 2-a-days."

That, along with the exposure of the dems/GOPe corrupt deep staters is what is causing the usual suspects like LLR Chuck and Inga to go all out in deflection.

The good news is their latest efforts will be just about as effective as their previous efforts.

BTW, here's a nice rundown of the energy assets Iran has that are easily exposed to American power if it should come to that:

https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-115/issue-1/exploration-development/iran-s-joint-fields-offer-development-partnership-opportunities.html

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

Trump's the one who made the threat, but Trump's not the one bitching and moaning about being meddled with--by foreigners, at least.

Generally, our Intel Community, so-called, has meddled with everyone else's elections (see Obama vs. Netanyahu), and more recently (we think more recently) has started meddling with our own elections.

Browndog said...

There are tons of Iranian protest video on-line. Daily occurrence. Arab media mostly.

Complete blackout in USA/UK.

Drago said...

Browndog: "Complete blackout in USA/UK."

Just another media play in support of the dem narratives. It wouldn't look good to focus too much on how much obama gifted to his Iranian Mad Mullah pals.

Seeing Red said...

Protests in Venezuela, Iran And Nicaragua.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

LOL @Drago.

“Right now, North Korea is "illegally smuggling" refined petroleum products into the country beyond the quota of 500,000 barrels per year allowed under U.N. sanctions.

North Korea is also evading sanctions by smuggling coal by sea, across borders, through cyber thefts and other criminal activities, and by keeping workers in some countries.

These actions are all "generating significant revenues for the regime and they must be stopped.”

SOS Pompeo


Seeing Red said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

I see The Parrot is cutting and pasting again without any sense of its significance.

Well, it is a day ending in "y".

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

J Farmer, mosque attendence is below 2%. The birth rate has crashed and is below Europe

The fertility rate in Iran has been climbing the last several years and will likely be above replacement level soon. The Iranian population exploded after the 1979 revolution, and the government later took steps to reign it in through an extensive family planning program. These programs have all been stopped, including stopping vasectomies and tubal ligations and ending the provision of free condoms to the population. Total fertility rate in Iran was already 1.97 in 2017 and will likely be above replacement level in the next few years.

Also, mosque attendance is a poor proxy for religiosity in Iran. This article does a good job of explaining why that is. There is also this study of Iranian religious views by Pew.

Bad Lieutenant said...

sykes.1 said...
You can shut down all shipping in the Persian and Oman Gulfs by putting a single RPG into a single freighter.


Oh, hi, Bobka Sykesovich! Bobka Sykesovich is a Russian troll from disqus who has found his vodka-soaked way here.

Hey, Bobovich, tell us some more about firing <1km ranged RPGs at tankers >10km away from Iranian shores. Go on, feed us, we're hungry for something small like you.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

LOL @ Drago.

“We need to see chairman Kim do what he promised the world he would do.”
Pompeo

"We continue to reiterate we can't do one thing until we see North Korea respond to their promise to denuclearize. We have to see some sort of action. And so until that action happens, the Security Council is going to hold tight."
Nikki Haley

Bad Lieutenant said...

Re: nose art, generally on aircraft it was relatively family friendly, but on the bombs themselves the chalked remarks tended to be tarter.

Drago said...

Inga thinks there is a deal already in place with the North Koreans.

There is no correcting that level of ignorance.

J. Farmer said...

@Drago:

Careful Farmer, that is Inga-level analysis of a linked item.

I read the entire article and have been reading 38North for a long time now. The link was in response to a commenter who had claimed North Korea had been defanged. There is also this:

New satellite photos show that Kim Jong Un is continuing to develop his nuclear weapons program, and U.S. intelligence sources say they believe North Korea has increased its production of nuclear fuel at multiple sites.

-North Korea Keeps Enriching Uranium

And again from the 38North analysis:

The increased roof staining at the northwest corner of the cascade halls, as shown in Figure 7, indicates continued operations at the Uranium Enrichment Plant. The staining is caused by the deposition of water vapor coming from the six cooling units associated with gas centrifuge operations.

Hence, I think I have provided sufficient evidence for my claim that: "The North Koreans have likely increased their production of uranium, and they have the same amount of nuclear bombs they had before Trump's efforts."

If you would like to provide some comparable evidence that North Korea has been "defanged," I'll be more than happy to consider it.

Drago said...

Inga also doesn't understand that any eventual deal with NK is driven completely by the US/China negotiations which are on-going and heated.

For obvious reasons. China doesn't want to lose half a trillion dollars a year in trade imbalance gains and they are not going to release their pets in NK to do anything until that is resolved.

Now, back to obama's pals in Tehran...

rcocean said...

So a NYT article about Iran has a tacked on editorial about Trump being subject to fierce criticism over his "weakness in handling Putin".

Yet, they claim with a straight face that their reporters are "objective".

rcocean said...

All of Trump's Critics sound like Goldilocks.

Trump's always too hot or too cold.

But never 'just right'

Michael K said...

As usual, Farmer is the expert on all topics and there is no use discussing anything with him.

I'm sure you know more about Iran than Goldman but I missed your books on it.

Drago said...

I believe the only other comment to yours was that you failed to note the very next paragraph in your very own link which was this (which I will post again for your benefit, even though it's from your link):

"Continued work at the Yongbyon facility should not be seen as having any relationship to North Korea’s pledge to denuclearize. The North’s nuclear cadre can be expected to proceed with business as usual until specific orders are issued from Pyongyang."

Rob said...

Per Ann's request, the Gadsden flag, modified.

n.n said...

Sex? Meddling is good. You don't like sex?

Drago said...

Annie C: "I really needed that laugh today!"

So, you, like Inga believe that Putin ordered his intelligence arms to gin up opposition to his very own allies?

That is funny.

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

As usual, Farmer is the expert on all topics and there is no use discussing anything with him.

Acting like a petulant child because someone disagrees with you is not a good look. I asked you why you believed Iranian would "abandon Islam." Your response was mosque attendance and Iranian fertility rate.

My response was to link to an article published in Critical Middle Eastern Studies titled "Religious Participation Among Muslims: Iranian exceptionalism" which specifically addressed the relationship between mosque attendance and religiosity. I also pointed out that Iranian fertility rates have been increasing since Goldman's book. And lastly the Pew data.

How about you try replying to the data instead of childishly attacking me?

J. Farmer said...

@Drago:

I believe the only other comment to yours was that you failed to note the very next paragraph in your very own link which was this (which I will post again for your benefit, even though it's from your link

traditionalguy wrote at 9:34am: "Our stable genius has defanged the NORKS and is close to defanging the Persians."

I wrote at 9:44am: "The North Koreans have likely increased their production of uranium, and they have the same amount of nuclear bombs they had before Trump's efforts. How is that being defanged?"

Dickin'Bimbos@Home wrote at 9:47am: "Do offer some proof of "Likely".

From my link: "The increased roof staining at the northwest corner of the cascade halls, as shown in Figure 7, indicates continued operations at the Uranium Enrichment Plant. The staining is caused by the deposition of water vapor coming from the six cooling units associated with gas centrifuge operations."

So, Drago, please tell me what I have said that was factually incorrect?

Michael K said...

As I commented, you are the expert on all topics. I turn over my king, sir.

tim maguire said...

We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with.

Hypocrisy is irrelevant in foreign policy. So what if we do things to others that we won't allow others to do to us? That's the whole point of having a bigger army. Only children don't know that.

Annie C. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Annie C. said...

Drago said...
Annie C: "I really needed that laugh today!"

So, you, like Inga believe that Putin ordered his intelligence arms to gin up opposition to his very own allies?

That is funny.


It was just having Inga invoke the GRU actually had me laughing out loud!

Sebastian said...

@Farmer: Hey, man, don't be so easily triggered.

Anyway:

"There is no American hegemony and an effort to maintain one is designed to least into destructive, counterproductive efforts. Do you want to risk thermonuclear war over Latvia? Or even Poland? I don't. How many trillions do you think we should spend trying to make Afghanistan not a failed state? We already spent trillions turning Iraq into a failed state. And we turned Libya into a failed state. And were trying to do the same thing to Syria."

So there is no American hegemony, but we are in fact committed to defending Latvia and Poland, we have in fact tried to remake Iraq and Afghanistan, and we in fact regime-changed Libya, spending trillions. Not to mention maintaining military bases around the world, having the navy patrol the seas, and so on, spending yet more trillions. That's "hegemony" by any other name. Complaining that it involves stuff you don't want is beside the point. It involves stuff I don't want.

"What would the world look like if we didn't "deal with" Iran and NK

And what has our efforts to "deal with" Iran and NK led to at this time? It is instructive that America's massive military and intelligence apparatus and numerous defense commitments throughout the world are justified by the threat of two minuscule powers that can barely project conventional military force outside their borders. But then again, threat inflation is built into the system. The US has to constantly invent knew terrifying villains to justify its aims towards hegemony."

Whoah, so there is no hegemony but we are aiming towards it, got it. Anyway, my point was not that dealing with various problems is beneficial in its own right, but to raise the question what the alternative would entail. That alternative could involve regional powers causing lots of trouble that causes lots of spill-over effects that we would then have to deal with after all. Even a devolution of our hegemonic system would require major balance-of-power considerations, Kissinger-style. That doesn't mean our current apparatus or policy needs to be what it is. It simply means that what-if scenarios have to be part of serious cost-benefit analysis.

As I said, that analysis is changing, and will change, for several reasons, with Trump in or out of the White House.

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

As I commented, you are the expert on all topics. I turn over my king, sir.

So when you make a claim based on a book, that claim cannot be challenged. But when I challenge that claim with evidence, it is because I am the "expert on all topics," and you thus refuse to engage in any further conversation. Gotcha.

walter said...

You can't trust Pew data in this case...Rug data more relevant.

pacwest said...

Trump is spreading American power way too thin. JCPOA should have been left in place untul NK is resolved. Trade negotiations should have centered singularly on China.

Individually I agree with most of what he is doing, but trying to take on all of our problems both foreign and domestic at once is weakening his position. I don't know if it is the neocons he has surrounded himself with, or just Trump's inexperience, but the risk of cascading failure is pretty high imo.

Drago said...

Annie: "It was just having Inga invoke the GRU actually had me laughing out loud"

Well, yes. You're correct about that.

I think Inga covered Soviet Intelligence Services and Capabilities in her 3rd semester of Nursing school. It's right after basic micro-biology.

cubanbob said...

Trump is simply reminding the Iranians that the last guy who threatened the US with "the mother of all battles" had his neck stretched.
What I find amusing, amazing and appalling is the hysteria and obsession over Russia when the reality of it is that at the heart of it all it the Russians were pawns of the Obama Administration. I maybe be wrong, but it appears to me that Chuck (and Chuck as a stand in for others) thinks Obama had nothing to do with the whole Russia thing. I find that to be even more disturbing than Obama giving winks and nods to the players. At least if Obama was behind it, then at least the organs obey their master. If he wasn't behind it, then the organs are autonomous which is more disturbing. Still, it has to disturb any American whose isn't mentally unhinged by partisan politics that the US Government actively intervened to affect the outcome of an election. That is the real scandal and the real danger. Russiagate is just a distraction from the real threat to our republic. Bob Boyd's citation is spot on. Trump apparently is working with Putin to avoid a war in Syria between Israel and Iran, a war neither the US or Russia wants. Bob Sykes comment was hysteria upon hysteria. No RPG is going to sink a super tanker and there are anti-missile defense systems that are effective against RPG's that can be installed on those ships and the governments who depend on oil from the straights will form reinsurance pools to insure the hulls and the cargos if needed.

J. Farmer said...

@Sebastian:

That alternative could involve regional powers causing lots of trouble that causes lots of spill-over effects that we would then have to deal with after all.

This is already happening while the US is self-consciously trying to pursue global hegemony. What can we do about Russian intervention in Ukraine or Russia? What can we do about Russian support for Assad?

It simply means that what-if scenarios have to be part of serious cost-benefit analysis.

The problem is that America's hegemonic desires result in us constantly underestimating the cost of intervention and overestimating the benefit. The most striking case in recent years in Iraq, which has been the most consequential intervention of the last 30 years. It ended up being a huge cost whose benefit was a failed state that allowed the rise of ISIS. Instead of internalizing any of those lessons, we have now moved on to confronting North Korea and Iran and seemingly underestimating the costs of confrontation and overestimating the benefits. A hegemonic system is bound to make these calculation errors and also tends to be why hegemons never last.

Drago said...

J Farmer: "A hegemonic system is bound to make these calculation errors and also tends to be why hegemons never last."

Nothing lasts forever, hegemons or non-hegemons.

Sebastian said...

"A hegemonic system is bound to make these calculation errors and also tends to be why hegemons never last."

I take, it, then, that we agree, after all, that there is a kind of American hegemony.

The question is not whether regional powers currently cause spill-over problems. It is whether a less hegemonic posture will lessen their impact on us and our close friends in a way that will not require us to clean up a major mess in the end. We may well move in that direction, but the calculation is not so easy.

We underestimate and overestimate costs. In the case of Iraq, dire predictions of a costly war, fighting in Baghdad, and so on, did not pan out, though the post-wear mess turned out to be much more costly. Of course, ISIS emerged after we left precipitously. It signaled the Iraqis state's weakness, but the Iraqi mobilization against it, with our help, was fairly effective.

J. Farmer said...

@Drago:

Nothing lasts forever, hegemons or non-hegemons.

All the more reason to wind down our global ambitions at a time of our choosing instead of waiting until they lead us into total ruin.

Unfortunately, it is already led us far down the primrose path, there is likely no recovery possible. Massive immigration flows are part and parcel of the hegemonic system we have been attempting to build for the last half century. Take a look at America's demographic projections and tell me what you think will be in store for this country when over half the population is either Hispanic or black.

MacMacConnell said...

What could have made the difference?

"The study revealed that after dozens of instances of Iranian harassment of the U.S. Navy in the last years of the Obama administration, incidents of provocation have dropped in the first two years of the Trump presidency.

In 2015, the year that President Obama enacted the Iran nuclear deal, Iranian vessels harassed American ships 22 times. That aggression escalated in 2016, Obama’s last year, with 36 instances of provocation.

Included in those 2016 numbers was the abduction of American sailors, which the Iranians filmed and broadcast to the world.

However, the numbers have dropped precipitously in the years since President Trump took office. Trump has frequently deployed tough-on-Iran rhetoric.

Iranian vessels pestered American naval ships only 14 times in 2017, Trump’s first year, and that number has fallen to an incredible zero occurrences of Iranian aggression so far in 2018."

Rusty said...

sykes.1 said...
"You can shut down all shipping in the Persian and Oman Gulfs by putting a single RPG into a single freighter. The maritime insurance companies would cancel all insurance on all ships in the region, and the ship owners would remove their ships from it. The result is no exports from the region and no imports (food, medicine, manufactured goods) to it. Other results are market crashes and economic depression, a real one this time, and likely nuclear war.

And how does the US reboot the trade? You have to occupy 1,000 miles of Iranian coast line all the way inland to the Zagros Mountains. That is simply not doable, and the attempt would be a very large ground war that would make 'Nam look like a picnic. Think Western Front in WW I or Eastern Front in WW II. And like 'Nam and Korea and Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria ..., we lose.

But the fake American neocons get their war. May God damn their souls to Eternal Hell."

You're not going to sink a freighter with an RPG. For that you need a torpedo. As to your other paragraph. That's what carrier strike forces are for. So that you don't need to occupy miles and miles of coastline.

Howard said...

We openly meddle and yet demand not to be meddled with.

That's exactly right, Professor. It's called American Exceptionalism.

Rusty said...


"I'm quite satisfied to rest with whatever the evidence shows."
As long as it shows Trump guilty of something, eh Chuck.
"I'm also confident that we haven't seen much of the evidence, yet."
Current revelations notwithstanding you certainly hope for evidence that will show Trump guilty of something impeachable.
Jesus, but you're a tiresome fool.

J. Farmer said...

@Sebastian:

The question is not whether regional powers currently cause spill-over problems. It is whether a less hegemonic posture will lessen their impact on us and our close friends in a way that will not require us to clean up a major mess in the end. We may well move in that direction, but the calculation is not so easy.

This seems to ignore the spill-over problems that we ourselves cause. The proximate cause of Russia's intervention in Ukraine was a Western-backed coup against the government. Saakashvili made ridiculously provocative decisions against Russia because he wrongly believed the US would support him, and he thus provoked the Russo-Georgian War.

Of course, ISIS emerged after we left precipitously. It signaled the Iraqis state's weakness, but the Iraqi mobilization against it, with our help, was fairly effective.

Iraq was in the middle of a violent civil war when there were tens of thousands of US troops stationed in the country. The notion that a small reserve force could have stopped ISIS is, I think, fatuous. It also ignores the important role that the Syrian Civil War (aided and abetted by our side) in ISIS' rise in Iraq. We have also been fighting in Afghanistan for two decades. How much longer you think before the Taliban is defeated?

Drago said...

So lets be clear, Trump is threatening one of Putin's biggest allies....huh? Wait. What?!

And the lefties hate it.

It's like the left/LLR's don't actually believe a single thing they lecture the rest of us about.

It's just like that.

Precisely like that.

Fen's Law, everyday and everyway.

walter said...

Blogger J. Farmer said...
Massive immigration flows are part and parcel of the hegemonic system we have been attempting to build for the last half century.
--
Do tell..

Drago said...

walter: "Do tell..."...

Indeed.

Farmer is full of new and insightful hot takes.

Did you know that all original planning regarding nation building in Iraq did not go well? What's that? You hadn't heard?

Well you are in luck because Farmer is here to enlighten you....

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

As much as I want to cheer for any movement in a positive direction with NoKo, it is doubtful they can be trusted. I found Farmer's link very interesting.

Howard said...

The end of the beginning of Western Liberal Democratic Hegemonic fuckups in the Middle East were documented by T E Lawrence. Trump, Obama and Bush didn't make this mess. We will see what Trump makes of it. Based on past experience, pessimism is the default

Seeing Red said...

These kinds of hegemony never last?

Someone should tell China since there going for the brass ring.

Or is the world finally defaulting back to normal after 70 years of the most peace it’s ever experienced?

Armed camps?

Drago said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home: "As much as I want to cheer for any movement in a positive direction with NoKo, it is doubtful they can be trusted"

No one can be trusted in the world of diplomacy and foreign relations.

Just look at the Germans cutting deals with Putin that will give Putin a stranglehold over German energy supplies.

And then Germany refuses to meet its paltry and miniscule funding requirements for NATO>

And then Germany inappropriately includes public works projects in its calculation of defense budget expenditures.

And then Germany allows its armed services to remain completely undermanned, undertrained, underequipped and the equipment they do have is basically unusable.

When you actually look at what the Germans really spend on military preparedness, it's probably less than .5%.

J. Farmer said...

@walter:

Do tell..

As Steve Sailer labeled it more than a decade ago, "invade the world/invite the world." See the history of Hmong, Somali, and Afghan immigration into the country for examples.

J. Farmer said...

@Seeing Red:

Or is the world finally defaulting back to normal after 70 years of the most peace it’s ever experienced?

See Niall Ferguon's The War of the World. The second half of the 20th century was just as violent as the first half. The only difference was that the violence took place within borders instead of between them.

Drago said...

Seeing Red: "Or is the world finally defaulting back to normal after 70 years of the most peace it’s ever experienced?"

The world has finally, after 70 years, exhausted the "America as Piggybank". The world has finally truly begun to run out of American money and personnel and now there is a populist wave to take back control of our nation which the elites had given to the rest of the world (for some handsome payoffs).

The "elites" could have avoided this, but then they thought they had it all in the bag and one more election win with Hillary would have cemented it forever.....until a guy like Trump came along and rode the wave.

Trump didn't create the wave, he simply rode it and, most amazingly of all, he is following through on it.

readering said...

Trump does not need twitter to communicate with Iran. He had a different reason for taking to all caps twitter. But since he's Trump, Gawd knows what it is.

Drago said...

"See Niall Ferguon's The War of the World. The second half of the 20th century was just as violent as the first half. The only difference was that the violence took place within borders instead of between them."

Quite true.

For 70 years human nature and historic human relations were not suspended, they were just more easily unnoticed.

hstad said...

Michael K said....7/23/18, 6:10am

"...the Democrats know what sort of agenda might bring them back into power as it did in 1992. But they feel that Clintonesque cure....?"

What? That agenda my friend had nothing to do with Democrat's strategy to win but had everything to do with Ross Perot. Truly wishful thinking! This is just like Democrats living in a non-reality World back in 1992 and today!

Drago said...

readering: "Trump does not need twitter to communicate with Iran. He had a different reason for taking to all caps twitter. But since he's Trump, Gawd knows what it is."

If you have a moment you might want to review the remarks of SOS Pompeo just yesterday at the Reagan library. Things might become a bit more clear to you.

Or not.

Whatever.

readering said...

Complicating things: Trump and Bolton and Pompeo and Haley and Mattis not all on same page world-view-wise.

readering said...

Do Pompeo remarks reach Iran? I should think so.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

hstad: "What? That agenda my friend had nothing to do with Democrat's strategy to win but had everything to do with Ross Perot. Truly wishful thinking! This is just like Democrats living in a non-reality World back in 1992 and today!"

True.

The GOPe (all of LLR Chuck's professed heroes) and the dems actually are conniving to try and create that sort of Ross Perot 3rd party candidacy to get the dems back into power.

Unfortunately for them, Trump is the Ross Perot-guy....AND the GOP base's guy.

The only "guy" he's not is the LLR Chuck/Brian Stelter "guy".

Which is okay with me.

Drago said...

readering: "Complicating things: Trump and Bolton and Pompeo and Haley and Mattis not all on same page world-view-wise."

You writing that provides a 99.9999% basis for believing they are all on the same page.

I always leave out the .00001 in the event someone is visiting the loo at the moment.

Drago said...

readering: "Do Pompeo remarks reach Iran? I should think so."

The question is whether or not Pompeo's remarks reach you. I should thing not.

walter said...

J. Farmer said...
As Steve Sailer labeled it more than a decade ago, "invade the world/invite the world." See the history of Hmong, Somali, and Afghan immigration into the country for examples.
--
Or..it could be an artifact of said conflicts.

Phil 314 said...

Bay Area Guy:

I’m not convinced President Trump has a big stick to wield.

J. Farmer said...

@walter:

You can read Sailer's full explanation here

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The Islamic supremacists who have a hold on Iran need to go. The younger generation should demand it.

You'd think that American leftists, who are so sensitive to religious theocracy at home, would be on board.

Drago said...

Dickin: "You'd think that American leftists, who are so sensitive to religious theocracy at home, would be on board."

LOL

American leftists are fully in league with radical islam in order to transform the US and the rest of the West.

The lefties think they can leverage the islamist supremacists now to cut out the conservative remnants of Europe and the US to achieve permanent power and then they can "convince" the islamist supremacists to evolve a bit so that the New World can be built on elitist defined lines.

Assuming these lefties are successful, one can imagine the looks on their faces as the blade begins to cut into their jugulars....

Gabriel said...

"...you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

--Thucydides describing the Athenians' demand for the surrender of Melos; the Melosians had complained that the Athenians were behaving unjustly.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I want every reader of this blog whom Althouse might consider to be a valued, serious reader to see what the small cohort that you represent are doing with her comments pages.

If there were ever a line written on this fine Blog that evidenced less self-reflection than this one I would be very surprised. This is state-of-the-art projection taken to eleventy. With appeals to authority to top it off. A wonderful specimen of the archetype. For the love of Thor, at least Darrell and Drago are funny, you idiot. That's why they are still here, fouling your pure space.

Seeing Red said...

See Niall Ferguon's The War of the World. The second half of the 20th century was just as violent as the first half. The only difference was that the violence took place within borders instead of between them."

Quite true.

For 70 years human nature and historic human relations were not suspended, they were just more easily unnoticed.


Niall Ferguson wrote that great article in the WSJ in 2005 I think about the choices we face as a world. ChiComs, Islamofascist, US or armed camps.





J. Farmer said...

@Seeing Red:

Niall Ferguson wrote that great article in the WSJ in 2005 I think about the choices we face as a world. ChiComs, Islamofascist, US or armed camps.

I generally like Ferguson as a historian. I have been less impressed with him as a prognosticator. If you haven't read it already, I would highly recommend Benjamin Barber's book Jihad vs. McWorld. Barber is much more enthusiastic about democracy than I am, but I think a lot of his insights in that book have been prescient.

Sebastian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sebastian said...

@Farmer: A little OT, but since you insist on precision:

"Iraq was in the middle of a violent civil war when there were tens of thousands of US troops stationed in the country." "When" is a little vague here--what those "troops stationed" did matters. When we decided to intervene, the "violent civil war" turned to the advantage of the government and stability of sorts.

"The notion that a small reserve force could have stopped ISIS is, I think, fatuous." As you so eagerly tell others, I said no such thing. But government forces would have been encouraged, and ISIS promoters discouraged, by American involvement. Our precipitous withdrawal in itself weakened the Iraqi government, and amplified the signal.

"It also ignores the important role that the Syrian Civil War (aided and abetted by our side) in ISIS' rise in Iraq." Syria was collapsing nicely without us. But if I understand your assessment correctly, we were capable of significantly worsening the Syrian civil war but unable to significantly ameliorate the Iraqi civil war.

"We have also been fighting in Afghanistan for two decades. How much longer you think before the Taliban is defeated?" I know you are little upset. Even here, the alternative needs to be weighed. Terrorism staged from Afghanistan was a minor but nasty spill-over problem. We don't want that to happen again. But no need for the "how much longer you think": I agree we overreacted and need to get out.

My original points stands: "Of course, ISIS emerged after we left precipitously. It signaled the Iraqis state's weakness, but the Iraqi mobilization against it, with our help, was fairly effective."

Jim at said...

And predictably, the fifth-column left jumps up to carry Iran's water.

Trash-talking Iran? That is truly treason. Must send another pallet of cash to make amends.

Michael K said...

hated, if you want to argue about the 6:10 post, argue with Victor David Hansen. I think his point was that, with or without Perot, today's Democrats would not have won in 1992.

Farmer, I answered your question about why I thought Iranians might reject Islam, which has provided such grief. You rejected my answer in you usual sneering tone. You might think that anyone who doesn't like your tone is childish, but I am not the only one here.

robother said...

The Deep State meddles. Ever since WWII, after they studied craft at the knee of Brit Intel, the Deep State has been deciding who should be in charge of countries from Greece to Iran to Iraq, on every continent from Africa to South America to Asia. Heady stuff.

Sooner or later, it was inevitable that they meddle in US Presidential politics, for their own institutional reasons. Nixon thinks he can appoint someone from outside the agency to run J.Edgar's FBI? Mark Felt finished his career at FBI, while Nixon was forced in resigning the Presidency. Trump thinks he can usurp the Clinton/Bush Establishment? "No. No he won't. We'll stop it."

Anonymous said...

@ Mike I do get amused by Chuck now passing judgement on other commenters. This is a new phase, not better, just new. I agree that Drago and Darrell at least make substantive comments most of the time and are usually worth reading. Chuck just confuses the hell out of me.

J. Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I am going with Kissinger's assessment that every so often someone - Trump in this case - has to come along to destroy the rot that has settled in. It's good thing, too. This FISA thing just adds one more log to the fire that is the FBI. Those guys almost make you ashamed to admit that you, too, are an American.

Drago said...

Khesanh: "Chuck just confuses the hell out of me."

That's because LLR Chuck's purpose here is simply to advance lefty and dem narratives.

Since those narratives themselves are incoherent and illogical it is no wonder that LLR Chuck's efforts to advance them would be as well.

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