April 8, 2018

Maureen Dowd has "noticed a weird pattern, in fiction and life, about sexual encounters..."

"Women decide they’re not attracted to a guy they’re nestling with. Limerence is not in the cards. But they go ahead and have sex anyhow."

Yeah, we all have.* And we all have our ideas about it. It's not that difficult to understand. The question is whether Maureen Dowd has found something new in the explanation or just an especially interesting way to talk about it.

Not really, she just found a woman she can interview about it:
I call Joanna Coles, the chief content officer of Hearst magazines and the former editrix of Cosmopolitan and Marie Claire. The 55-year-old Brit has a new book called “Love Rules,” a guide to avoiding the digital sand traps in relationships....

“There’s a new sense in which young women feel that they are now in competition with porn, and if they don’t put out, it’s easy for the guy to go home, log in to Pornhub and get what he needs there,” Coles says. “They’re sublimating their own needs to try and please the guy. Then they realize their needs weren’t being met at all.

“Porn sex is designed to get men off in six to eight minutes. Many men don’t know how to interpret female behavior in bed unless it replicates a porno film.”
Take it from a 55-year-old Brit with a book to sell.

By the way, do you find "editrix" jaunty and amusing, annoying and groan-worthy, or evidence that Dowd isn't doing feminism right?

________________

* I'm writing this footnote as I proofread the published post: We all have noticed. That's what I mean. Not, we all have gone ahead and had sex anyhow. I'm not accidentally and casually confessing to Cat-Personing.

406 comments:

1 – 200 of 406   Newer›   Newest»
gilbar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gilbar said...

i vote for evidence that Dowd isn't doing feminism right

so, this British lady is singing that Waitresses song;
I know what boys like


Sharc 65 said...

I see a "jaunty-amusing/annoyingly groan-worthy/doing feminism right" poll in our blogatrix's future.

Sharc 65 said...

As always for Dowd, she imagines herself as (a) but is helplessly (b).

Humperdink said...

In describing the hook-up culture, one Dowd quote caught my eye: "cyberspace — a space designed by men"

Disappointed she didn't say "white men". She needs to up her game.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I love "editrix." When I was editing San Francisco Classical Voice, I wanted it for my email handle, but of course it was already taken.

Sharc 65 said...

"cyberspace — a space designed by men"

Al Gore could not be reached for comment.

Owen said...

"Editrix" should be "editrice." Sounds less like black leather and fishnet stockings, more classy.

Tank said...

What DO women want?

Unknown said...

Annoying and groan-worthy, in a poseur sort of way.

-sw

rhhardin said...

Editrix is for kids.

rhhardin said...

Imus, inverviewing Larry Flynt, who said that 90% of all the porn movies out there are his.

Imus: "I understand people only watch the first seven minutes."

Flynt: "So I've been told."

rhhardin said...

Women are in competition with porn if that's what the guy wants from her. Probably it's a self-selection plus for women. Why bother with real women at all, for that guy.

rhhardin said...

As long as there's blonde and blond, brunette and brunet, there's editrix.

Ralph L said...

Jordan Petersen would say women are evolutionarily programmed to wait for a ring or caveman equivalent, so not waiting overloads the system and makes her pull back.

David Begley said...

How many men have had sex with Maureen Dowd even though they weren’t attracted to her but did so because they could?

A sad story coming from an old maid. Old maid!

BamaBadgOR said...

I liked the article headline better when it said "Maureen Down."

David Begley said...

Wow! Dowd really blew it. Look who she could have been married to! Not in Meade’s class, but cool guys nonetheless.

“Dowd formerly dated Aaron Sorkin, the creator and producer of The West Wing. She has also been briefly connected with the actor Michael Douglas and is an ex-companion of her fellow Times columnist John Tierney.”

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Nothing is stopping Maureen Dowd from jumping into the RFC process or contributing to an open source project like git or R. For that matter she could start her own open source project or perhaps she has an idea for the next big social media platform. All she has to do is download an IDE, perhaps eclipse, and a compiler, gcc is good, and start coding. If she doesn't know how to code stackskills bundles courses on programming and sells them really cheap, coursera.org is somewhat more expensive, but has courses from a consortium of universities and the classes have instructors and you receive a certification that you can put in your linkedin profile.

Oh, what's that you're saying? Dowd has absolutely no interest in contributing anything whatsoever to cyberspace except for columns that reinforce her and her circle of friends' delusion that they are somehow oppressed even though they are the most privileged group of people that have ever walked the earth. Never mind then.

Ralph L said...

Matthew Dowd tag. Lots of guys decided to have sex with him anyway.

Hagar said...

"have sex with" is an offensive term.

David Begley said...

Dowd grew up Catholic; not that it matters.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

The one column a year that she lets her brother write is always good. Of course he is a conservative and way smarter than her.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/opinion/sunday/my-brother-kevins-not-tired-of-winning.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fmaureen-dowd&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

David Begley said...

At this stage in her life, old maid Dowd would probably do anyone in pants.

Fernandistien said...

new book called “Love Rules”

Hint: Unhappy people buy things.

Self-improvement Books… "A popular book is still the basic starting point and platform for motivational speakers and gurus. Self-improvement books have been doing well in recent years, with a slew of new titles appearing in 2015 and 2016. This is now an $800 million market that’s growing 6% per year."

Etienne said...

Cosmopolitan magazine has probably ruined more minds than illicit drugs.

"I got your limerence right here, hanging..."

Birkel said...

I look forward to the Leftist Collectivist Puritanism.

David Begley said...

Old Maid Dowd probably cruises the newsroom looking for men in their 30’s and 40’s in order to put another notch on her lipstick case. Cruel.

Birkel said...

It would be more straightforward for Dowd and other Leftist Collectivist "feminists" to write "We were wrong."

Such an admission would require self-reflection so I can predict that column will remain unwritten.

Curious George said...

"David Begley said...
At this stage in her life, old maid Dowd would probably do anyone in pants"

Not Hillary. She's undoable.

Tarrou said...

There's a nested assumption here that when women do something that they dislike on some level, but which they get something they want more out of, this is a terrible injustice, and not just life as it is for everyone.

One is constantly doing things which one dislikes because one recieves a greater benefit. We work, and get a paycheck. We suffer through our friends' childrens' birthday parties because we want to maintain the friendship.

But when it's a woman, and sex, we are encouraged to think of anything not absolutely 100% in line with the deepest and most secretive desires of a woman as some variant of rape, no matter how much she consents.

Feminism is the idea that women are defective men, who should ape the worst aspects of male behavior, and are yet such delicate and fragile flowers that they require literal telepathy to fuck without moral risk.

BDNYC said...

Just wait till the sex robots get really good.

BDNYC said...

“But when it's a woman, and sex, we are encouraged to think of anything not absolutely 100% in line with the deepest and most secretive desires of a woman as some variant of rape, no matter how much she consents. ”

Careful, now. Althouse has already said before that sex should only ever be a 100% mutual thing where both parties only want sex for its own sake. If a woman is in take-it-or-leave-it mode, she should leave it. No other motivation, including pleasing a mate, is acceptable. Sex can only happen when the woman is practically deranged with horniness. The man must wait patiently for that moment.

Now let’s discuss whether that concept of sex will lead to more or less sex robots, pornography and extramarital affairs.

The Drill SGT said...

Althouse

tag = 'Matthew Dowd,' ???

robother said...

Lady Billingdon preceded Maureen in this observation by 110 years. Of course, not many women open their legs for a Baron these days (though Trump's son is perhaps worth saving yourself for).

Ignorance is Bliss said...

By the way, do you find "editrix" jaunty and amusing, annoying and groan-worthy, or evidence that Dowd isn't doing feminism right?

I find a sudden urge to check if PornHub has and editrix category, just to see what that might involve.

Caroline Walker said...

The sexual revolution was supposed to be so liberating! Now it seems we’re just wallowing in mutual degradation. It would be nice to see a few critical appraisals of the sexual revolution and its catastrophic effect on our culture.

Jupiter said...

You're not having fun at this party? Evolution really couldn't give a fuck. If you think sex is unpleasant, wait until you try giving birth. You'll be lucky to survive.

the 4chan guy who reads Althouse said...

I'm going to try to make a point here. I know it won't be as good as some of the people here making their points, because a lot of the people here are really smart, but I think a lot of the people here don't really watch porn, either, so there's that.

Anyway: I think feminism and porn are pretty intertwined -- almost scissoring, maybe.

You look at old 40's and 50's porn, and it's pretty tame: there didn't seem to be a lot of double anal and shit like that. And I think that's because women weren't feminist then, so men still felt protective and chivalrous and shit, they treated the women with respect, even when they were banging them on film.

But as feminism gets more aggressive then porn gets more aggressive, too. Because men kinda have to shut themselves down a bit, they have to be careful what they say and do when women are around or, like, the woman in HR can ruin their life. Or they write a story about how they got naked at your place and sucked your cock, but they felt uncomfortable about doing that, so you're an asshole.

And porn is the last thing where women still cater to what men want. The things men want have been socially marginalized, and you get criticized just for being a white dude who does coding, because you are not a Latina chick who does coding. So they try to get more Latina chicks to do coding and shit, but there's never really that many Latina chicks who actually like to do coding, so when there is one the dude gets pushed aside, even though he lives and breathes that shit.

So as feminism makes a dude's life smaller, he usually has only one area that he can go where it is about what he wants, and that's porn. Maybe it used to be sports, but chicks now want to go watch the game with you too, even though they don't really understand it, they just think they look cute in the team jersey with tight leggings. Which they do, sometimes, because a chick in a football jersey and tight leggings can be pretty hot.

And I don't think many men have a problem with feminism when it's just treating them equal and shit. But when you can't be equal too anymore, when you have to tiptoe around the latest new feminist rule -- well, shit gets bottled up. But the bottled-up shit about having to take more aggressive stupid-shit feminism seriously probably makes dudes want more aggressive porn, because now you got repressed anger in the mix, and you don't want your porn romantic and chivalrous, you want chicks gagging on cocks with the make-up running down their face.

At least, that's what I think is happening. But I bet a lot of men, if they were forced to read Maureen Dowd, would probably be more inclined to view a video of double-anal afterward, just to get their head straight. Yes; 'getting their head straight' and porn -- I see what I did there.

gilbar said...

"Just wait till the sex robots get really good."
i heard that the Cherry 2000 models were worth risking the lawlessness of Zone 7 to retrieve!

And that's some risk!

Jupiter said...

Next you'll be telling us that sometimes you eat things even though you're not hungry.

Henry said...

limerence is a good word and a funny-sounding word too.

Oso Negro said...

I wait eagerly for the next older woman to offer a twatology about the needs of men.

Jupiter said...

"So as feminism makes a dude's life smaller ..."

Boy, ain't that the truth. Maybe the reason we only want one thing is that they're only good for one thing.

gilbar said...

IF you go to the symphony, or the farmer's market; even though you're not 100% into it, just because it will make your mate happy.... is That rape?

Oh, wait! i know... IF you go to the NASCAR race, or the truck pull, just to make your mate happy: that IS rape!!!!

or is it only sex that you have to be ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INTO?

IF you go down on your mate, even though you're not 100% into it, just because it will make your mate happy... is That rape?
and does it change depending on your mate's gender?

Ron Winkleheimer said...

noblesse oblige

the inferred responsibility of privileged people to act with generosity and nobility toward those less privileged.

I'm bringing this up because not that many years ago the privileged people in our society were expected to help the less privileged. But I (and a lot of other Trump supporters) have noticed that now the privileged spend a lot of time explaining how they aren't really privileged at all and that people who are less privileged than they are are oppressing them.

whitney said...

Limerence, I was happy to learn a new word and then I saw that it was coined by a psychologist in 1979 and suddenly I didn't like it anymore. Also, it seems to be defined as a more Fatal Attraction kind of love. I don't know why Dowd thought that was appropriate.

Bob Boyd said...

I call Joanna Coles, the chief content officer of Hearst magazines and the former editrix of Cosmopolitan and Marie Claire."

"editrix" comes across as a little pretentious there.
Also, the sentence had me thinking this is how big league opinion making becomes so incestuous. People like Dowd consulting with people like Dowd.

tcrosse said...

Trix are for kids.

Birkel said...

I can predict with near 100% certainty that I will not feel like going to work on some future Monday. But, I am also the boss.

Can I file a police report for brain-sodomizing myself if I am not fully into working? I mean, I kinda want to work. And I know working will make other people happy. Probably a lot happier than I will be.

Can we get a list of those things we should be 100% into before doing?

tim in vermont said...

That's a funny question coming from a blogress.

glenn said...

I dunno, back in the late 50’s/early 60’s I did pretty well with the girls who were tired of Mr. wham bam thank you mam. And porn had nothing to do with it. Just insensitive men.

tim in vermont said...

As a man, I can only say "editrix" communicates female power and competence. But we men know nothing, we think that the sexes are different in many ways not visually obvious.

tcrosse said...

I suppose a female trickster is a trickstrix.

tim in vermont said...

You guys say what you will about Dowd, I would marry her, politics notwithstanding, just for the fun of it. Even if I have been trying to make 'Dowdlerize' happen, at least she would get it.

MadisonMan said...

editrix

Evidence that Dowd isn't doing things right, definitely. How is separate but equal the way to go with words?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Man, these people (Dowd etc) need to get into the real world. (I couldn't read the article because NYT paywall so just commenting on the excerpt)

FIRST of all...Limerence: is a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person typically including compulsive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship and have one's feelings reciprocated. Limerence is also a state of mind that never lasts unless you are some sort of fetishist psycho. Exciting and consuming while it lasts in full force. But like everything....it fades a bit with time.

Normal people have flashes and episodes of the compulsive thoughts and fantasies, but NO one has the energy to live in a constant state of tumescence.

This state (both limerence and tumescence) will fade and real life will intrude. Work, children, laundry, cooking, obligations, need for sleep. You can certainly and absolutely should have those "flashes" but to throw away a relationship because of the natural progression of life is just stupid.

SECOND: There is nothing wrong with porn, with putting out for or acting out the fantasies of your partner or yourself Do it,even if they aren't your fantasies......as long as they aren't harmful to either of you. (Nerf whips please ;-). In fact, you should cooperate in fulfilling those occasional fantasies as long as they are occasional. Not every G-D time. M'kay? NOW....if that IS your cup of tea.....well, then go ahead and fulfill those fantasies. Either way. Shut up about it in real life, because NO ONE CARES about your limerence.

People are so self absorbed lately.

MadisonMan said...

I know what boys like

Great song.

Always loved the ...sucker part with the laugh.

You're so much different, I might let you

Michael K said...

Dowd is like Grandma in "Parenthood."

"She needs a man !"

MadisonMan said...

Jupiter's 8:34 comment made me laugh out loud here at the Coffee Shop.

(oops)

dreams said...

Yeah, good idea to clarify.

tim in vermont said...

"almost scissoring, maybe."

Laslo owes me another keyboard. But he might have a point, maybe all of those exposed assholes, sequoia dicks, and stepdad scenarios one has to wade through to get to anything sexy are like the three-headed dogs guarding Hell.

mockturtle said...

Even the Bible [I Corinthians 7:5] teaches that husbands and wives should not withhold sex from one another. But I think the notion that some women bleach their anuses, shave their pubes and offer oral sex to a date just to be accommodating is not only wrong but incredibly foolish unless she is an aspiring prostitute, in which case she should be charging him for it.

dreams said...

Maureen Dowd, the once spoiled and now tolerated liberal baby sister.

tim in vermont said...

Women are powerless in the game of sex and are never assholes about it.

Marc said...

We'll be tempted to use the words actress and authoress again if those people aren't more careful. I paid my dues, as it were, by skimming the Dowd (which sounds perhaps risqué) and most of these comments but the more interesting opinion piece in the NYT this weekend is Ross Douthat's, on 'abortion extremists'.

Bay Area Guy said...

Why is once-hot, but now aging spinster, Maureed Dowd, still talking about sex on the august pages of the NYTimes?

She should be knitting a quilt and drinking prune juice.

EDH said...

the 4chan guy: early porn had to be shown one a screen, publicly to make money, and had to contend with obscenity laws, so there is some autocorrelation between the variables of feminism, 1st Amend jurisprudence, video technology and time in your equation.

I've never used porn to masturbate, just my internal "highlight reel", which now includes that picture Althouse puffing on the cigar.

But what the does Liberace have to do with all this?

tim in vermont said...

I think that Althouse has the position that sex is emotional dynamite and you should be careful whom you share it with, not that, once you have chosen a lover, you shouldn't be accommodating. Players don't like women hearing this advice anymore than they want responsibility for any other consequences of a lighthearted (For them) roll in the hay. Doesn't Althouse know that feminism is about sex NSA, as they used to say on Craigslist?

bagoh20 said...

After decades of self-help in many forms being the leading seller of all information, I see no results. I do see the opposite, and I think much of the self-help is to blame. Probably becuase it's not actually self-help, but self-justification and narcissism, which is what we now have in excess. The generations that have suffered the least challenges and accomplished the least have the highest self-esteem. I'm not OK and neither are you. My relationship advice is to expect to break up someday becuase 100% of us do, and always be trying to leave the other person's life better off than it would be without you. It's a high standard considering you are taking their time.

Leland said...

I see two things in the story. One is something that seems to have existed for a long time; that people will consent to sex even when they really aren't that interested in doing so. Indeed, people will consent to a lot of things they really don't have great interest in doing. There's a saying for it that's often wrongly attributed to P.T. Barnum.

The other is the notion that women are now competing with the easy ability of porn. I don't think that is very new either, see this article about Japan from 2013: "I do know a number of men in Japan, and elsewhere, who find the role play games, the dating SIMS, even advances in pornography, and would rather experience the opposite sex that way than go through the challenges of relationships."

Robert Cook said...

"Editrix" is anachronistic, as are terms such as "waitress" and "actress," etc. The terms "editor," "waiter," (now "server"), and "actor" are not innately masculine in their connotations, and so are suitable--preferable--when referring to females working at these jobs.

mockturtle said...

Bay Area Guy: I'm older than Dowd and still talk about sex. Are you ageist or something?

tcrosse said...

I've never used porn to masturbate, just my internal "highlight reel"

This must be the guy who read Playboy for the articles.

William said...

I'm not familiar with double anal. I don't mean to sound judgmental, but it sounds kind of gay. In fact, I wouldn't want to do any kind of threesome with another guy. Many here will call me homophobic, but that's my position.

tim in vermont said...

The other thing that I like about Modo is that she has always had the Clintons pegged, even when the Democrats were ante-metoo.

James K said...

“ is an ex-companion of her fellow Times columnist John Tierney.”

Tierney for years has been the only NYT writer worth reading, though I rarely see him there any more, and thought perhaps he’d left. I would have thought he’d have better taste, or would have been married with children.

One thing I’ll say for MoDo is that—because of her brother, perhaps—she doesn’t go into convulsions at any encounter with conservative ideas.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Back in the day, when he actually built things, Trump opposed installing sprinkler systems in apartment buildings such as his own.

Arguably, Trump just killed a guy on 5th Avenue and no one cares.

Virgil Hilts said...

Women are in competition with porn. . That's only one small piece of what's really going on.
Many more women / many, many fewer men are achieving/becoming winners. Lots of men are fine and happy with porn, video games, low end jobs, and see no need to compete (check out men in Japan). So # of winning W now greatly exceeds # of winning M. Winning M have it made (my son is one of these and its sick how easy it is for him to find cute smart women), and many W wanting to find a winning M are willing to have sex at a low threshold because if they don't they can't compete in the marketplace. All of the power has shifted to winning M.

mockturtle said...

"Editrix" is anachronistic, as are terms such as "waitress" and "actress," etc. The terms "editor," "waiter," (now "server"), and "actor" are not innately masculine in their connotations, and so are suitable--preferable--when referring to females working at these jobs.

Agree 100%, Cookie. These genderized nouns should be eliminated once and for all from our vocabulary. For that matter, chairman should be a broad enough title for either gender.

tim in vermont said...

It is funny to hear a woman who never fails to comment on dick size complain about men's clear preference for youth.

bagoh20 said...

I never met a women who wanted it less than I did. If I did, it would never happen. In my experience, it's the woman who needs it most. Despite plenty of exposure to it, I'm not sure of female sexuality. Do they want sex, becuase they are actually horny, or becuase they need to prove that the man finds them attractive. It can look the same from the guy point of view, no matter how the woman goes about it. Does she really want that, or does she just think I do? When the guys later do not respond as sufficiently thankful, they usually get attacked socially or even legally.

bagoh20 said...

Women can not compete with porn unless the get a "next" button installed.

mockturtle said...

It is funny to hear a woman who never fails to comment on dick size complain about men's clear preference for youth.

Now, Tim, when did I ever complain about men's clear preference for youth? The subject broached above was 'talking about sex'. With a lifetime of experience behind me, I feel as qualified as any in that regard. I haven't actually had sex in many years and probably never will again but I can talk about it all I want. :-)

I find younger men more attractive, too. Who wouldn't? The older we get, the more we value the physical attributes of youth.

madAsHell said...

Maureen Dowd has a sex life??

Bay Area Guy said...

@Mock,

"Bay Area Guy: I'm older than Dowd and still talk about sex. Are you ageist or something?"

No! I am not ageist, and I highly encourage you to keep talking about sex!

I am more NYT-ist and Dowd-ist. Mo Dowd has a long history of dating famous men (eg, Michael Douglas), lamenting about her failed sex life and then blaming men in general for her short-comings.

She is, in essence, an annoying Leftist. And, I make it my point in life to mock (no pun intended) annoying Leftists.

mockturtle said...

Tim: If I comment on 'dick size' it's only to counter comments men make about women's physical shortcomings. And some men seem to be very sensitive about their dick size. Et tu, Brute?.

mockturtle said...

B.A.G., I was just being facetious. ;-) I'm seldom serious.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

William,
I too stand against Devil's Threesomes. They are an affront to all things good and holy.

Curious George said...

"madAsHell said...
Maureen Dowd has a sex life??"

Yes, but batteries not included.

bagoh20 said...

Does Dowd have any idea what men acquiesce to, how often, and how much to get that sex. Most of what we do is some form of that. Much of it is expensive, often drudgery, and/or embarrassing. That's why slut shaming is a thing. It's all there is on that side to ridicule, and it has little power left. We act like getting sex from the woman was some kind of accomplishment, when it's not all that hard or rewarding, although it can seem amazing at the time - kind of like a ride on a good roller coaster. Women should raise the ticket price to where it used to be.

That may sound contradictory, but I want the ride to be something I earned, even if it's what we both want.

Virgil Hilts said...

One of the interesting results of the change in power dynamics is that the happiest / most successful relationships now involve a woman pairing up with a man less attractive than her.
https://nypost.com/2017/09/13/date-the-frog-not-the-prince-science/
Not scientific, but its very noticeable over last 5 years how many young male attorneys or recruits (in their 20s) who are not in great physical shape or very good looking show up at events with dates/wives who are absolute knockouts. Also when beautiful young female attorneys or recruits (in their 20s) show up with dates or husbands, I am shocked at how average the latter often are (and in many cases not as accomplished, so its not like the women are picking status over looks).

bagoh20 said...

Nothing could be more distracting during sex than another dick showing up. A second woman might be even more distracting, but I can live with that. It's the male drive for efficiency - killing two birds with one bone.

Curious George said...

"Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Back in the day, when he actually built things, Trump opposed installing sprinkler systems in apartment buildings such as his own.

Arguably, Trump just killed a guy on 5th Avenue and no one cares."

No, that's not arguable.

Michael K said...


Back in the day, when he actually built things, Trump opposed installing sprinkler systems in apartment buildings such as his own.

Arguably, Trump just killed a guy on 5th Avenue and no one cares.


ARM is like chuck. No conversation without the mandatory Trump complaint. Do you hear him in your head at night ?

mockturtle said...

Bagoh comments: That may sound contradictory, but I want the ride to be something I earned, even if it's what we both want.

Yes. Whatever happened to the chase? I've mentioned this before but eh relationship between Mel Gibson and Sigourney Weaver in The Year of Living Dangerously was more exciting and fulfilling because of the suspense.

Would standing on the summit of K2 be as rewarding if you'd been dropped there by a helicopter rather than have climbed it?

bagoh20 said...

"I haven't actually had sex in many years and probably never will again..."

Would you consider paying a male escort if it was easy, very discreet, pleasant and safe.

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

ARM
Have you been a complete asshole your entire life? Really.

bagoh20 said...

"Would you consider paying a male escort if it was easy, very discreet, pleasant and safe."

I think most men would.

Inga said...

“Why is once-hot, but now aging spinster, Maureed Dowd, still talking about sex on the august pages of the NYTimes?

She should be knitting a quilt and drinking prune juice.”

Should any woman Dowd’s age, Althouse’s age, Mockturtle’s age, my age, just turn off all thoughts of sex? Do men of similar age do so? So does Dowd’s marital status indicate she never had a relationship that included sex? I know you were kidding, but sheesh...

Inga said...

Oooops sorry, saw your response to Mockturtle. Sometimes I’m just too lazy to read the entire thread before commenting.

bagoh20 said...

A developer can build a thousand homes without sprinklers or any active fire supression, but a building with multiple homes is treated differently despite the vast majority of fire deaths happening in single family homes. Personally, I would like a fire suppression system in my home, but requiring it is like requiring personal lightning insurance, which I would also like if it was free.

the 4chan guy who reads Althouse said...

William said...
"I'm not familiar with double anal. I don't mean to sound judgmental, but it sounds kind of gay."

From my comment on the Stormy Daniels post:

"Because they imagined fucking you, but not fucking you in the ass while another dude's dick is already in there."

I post my shit here.

Inga said...

“By the way, do you find "editrix" jaunty and amusing, annoying and groan-worthy, or evidence that Dowd isn't doing feminism right?”

As annoying as the word “blogress”.

Tim DeRoche said...

I'm sure this happens to women (and men) quite frequently. It also happens to both women and men at Best Buy, Carmax, and even CVS. It's that tragic human condition known as buyer's remorse.

Marc said...

Blogress is annoying because it is a neologism invented for its (I suppose what must be called) humor. (I believe. Perhaps at the beginning there was a blogger and a blogress; no idea, really.)

No idea why waiter and waitress, perfectly good words in English, have to be discarded. Just like I'm not going to use ridiculous personal pronouns in the service of someone's loopiness, nor am I going to pretend that 'anachronism' is whatever the defenders of the post-PC juggernaut say it is.

Mary Beth said...

Editrix" is anachronistic

Yeah, like early 20th Century, when the word was first used. Google Ngram shows it becoming popular in 1911, except for one fluke blip in the graph in 1838. It actually looks like it's becoming more popular.

We don't need gendered nouns in a non-gendered language so the use of one seems like an affectation. It was still the most interesting thing in what I read.

tim in vermont said...

Yeah, Mock, that's what Jesus would say to me too.

FIDO said...

1) I liked the words limerence and editorix. The first is new and the second is perfect for a controlling female authority figure, adding a little panache to an otherwise dreary field.

2) Ms. 'Sleeparound' Dowd, whom I suspect has never felt limerence in her life, seems a singularly strange person to complain about it's lack in modern literature.

3) I'm not clicking a NYT link. Let Krugman pay their salaries.

4) Which gender is writing the majority of the literature for women? Why do THEY feel it is a perfectly valid situation for a woman to be in?

5) (going long) Feminism has told men that women now want sex too. Now, there is no God, or morals, or relationships (such gauche and last century worries) to restrict a woman from 'enjoying her body'.

Well, except telling a guy 'I don't like you enough to do that'. That...is a fraught conversation for a girl to face so in far too many cases, she gets some very unfulfilling encounters, hopefully with a small endorphin rush at the end if she's lucky.

Women ARE being propositioned more, I'm guessing (no longer any traditionally moral reasons for a guy not to ask. Girls, thank a Feminist).

Women don't like it. They want the old deal...but they just got finished killing it and they don't want ANY of the bad aspects of the old deal (while greedily hungering for triple helpings of the good)

If you want limerence, you need to be limer worthy, ladies.

Some of it IS technological. A fat girl in a small village would eventually find the last single guy who wanted to get laid. In this global sexual economy...good luck! Same as the short and fat men. It's hell.

But certain Feminsts have straightforwardly put forth that they wanted to destroy marriage.

Now women are missing it, or at least the good benefits of it. Well...too bad.

Seeing Red said...

There’s a new sense in which young women feel that they are now in competition with porn, and if they don’t put out, it’s easy for the guy to go home, log in to Pornhub and get what he needs there,”



Bwaaaaaaa


There were always cows giving the milk away for free.


My daughter sez a lot of girls feel porn is cheating.

The females she talks to feel that porn gives unrealistic expectations.

Who would have thought putting Norma Jean in Playboy would do this?

Howard said...

Blogger mockturtle said... in which case she should be charging him for it.

Men always pay for it, it's the medium of exchange that varies.

Seeing Red said...

Editrix

Dominatrix


My mind works in mysterious ways.....

Seeing Red said...

Madonna whore complex?

It’s not just for marriage anymore.

Howard said...

Speaking of dick size. Have you noticed the mens shoe that has a big box toe that extends well beyond the toes to make the foot look longer? It's like bra stuffing.

cronus titan said...

Dowd famously wrote "Are Men Necessary?" She has always had, um, interesting ideas about men. As in, the kind of ideas that most of us outgrew in the 7th grade.

In one of life's ironies, Dowd is suggesting that with the easy access to porn, the question is whether women are necessary. She is still in the 6th grade. A very sad existence.

buwaya said...

Dropping female forms like "aviatrix" is a linguistic deprivation. These words add subtle distinctions, especially when there is an option of more neutral terms.

This whole degendering or pan-gendering business steals away the fascinating intricacies of English for no benefit at all. And these also create a barrier between modern usage and custom and those of its literary heritage. Its already SOP for modern students to refuse to read pre-2000's literature because its all so offensive.

A properly ungendered language has a history of usage where its style grew organically. But thats not what you people are doing to English. You are suddenly become barbarians, burning your own glory in a fit of vandalism.

buwaya said...

What you are doing to your own language is in fact an evil, demonic impulse, inspired by Satan.

FIDO said...

It seems the end goal of Feminist professors is to make young girls as cynical and depressed people AS YOUNG GIRLS as the professors ended up right out of the gate...and they are succeeding.

JAORE said...

I laugh at the concept above of the number of really great guys MoDo could have married. As if banging the (once) attractive woman means men would have offered a proposal. M. Douglas is a particular laugh fest. MoDo<<<<< K Zeta Jones in looks alone. Hard to believe she isn't more pleasant to be around 24/7.

How sad that someone whose life is based on femsplaining gets it wrong so often.

Carol said...

"Would you consider paying a male escort if it was easy, very discreet, pleasant and safe."

I think most men would.



Now that IS gay.

Big Mike said...

“There’s a new sense in which young women feel that they are now in competition with porn, and if they don’t put out, it’s easy for the guy to go home, log in to Pornhub and get what he needs there,” Coles says.

Joanna Coles is an idiot. Women are not in competition with porn; they're in competition with each other, as they always have been. Women constitute 60% of the undergraduate student bodies of colleges across the United States, it follows logically that for every three women in or recently graduated from, college there are only two men who are as educated. If a young woman doesn't put out for a guy who's interested in her, he can readily find someone who will put out. The notion that watching porn and masturbating is as satisfying to a man as a real relationship with a real woman is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

You gotta love how Dowd puts her limerent thoughts out there on paper week after week, only to get it stepped on. I hope she gets off each time before a refraction is called for.

chickelit said...

Dowd is only trying to inseminate you with ideas.

Inga said...

“As if banging the (once) attractive woman means...”

Why is she no longer attractive? Older men her age would not find her attractive anymore? Are older men still considered attractive, even by some younger women? Why? Is there a double standard that an older woman is no longer attractive, but an older man still is?

Hmmm, that sounds terribly sexist and ageist

mockturtle said...

bagoh asks: Would you consider paying a male escort if it was easy, very discreet, pleasant and safe.

As a Christian, I would not. If I weren't, then yes, I probably would. Not as if I would have to pay for sex, mind you ;-), but it would be a mutually beneficial arrangement with a younger dude I found attractive. Preferably, but not necessarily, Japanese. [You can see I've given it some thought but I would never follow up on it].

Big Mike said...

Dropping female forms like "aviatrix" is a linguistic deprivation. These words add subtle distinctions, especially when there is an option of more neutral terms.

I'm going to disagree with you, buwaya my friend. Words like that date back to the days when we had lower expectations for a female doing the same thing as a male.

Now, I will concede that, if the third generation feminists get their way, then we may have to revert back to female forms of a word. I mean, when I read that young college women want math pulled out of science so that diversity can be maintained, I get very nervous about the quality of the "science" that they will be doing. I guess if math is too hard for female engineers then collapsing bridges and people crushed to death is just something we have to get used to.

EDH said...

Howard said...
Speaking of dick size. Have you noticed the mens shoe that has a big box toe that extends well beyond the toes to make the foot look longer? It's like bra stuffing.

Yeah, I hate those shoes!

I noticed that in this red carpet scene from the movie Entourage.

What are those, fuckin' clown shoes you're wearing?

Mary said...

I read the article last night and it felt incomplete, like ut oh, story’s due, click send. She barely wrote anything and I didn’t get her point at all. And yes we all have (noticed) ha ha

tim in vermont said...

"Et tu Tim"

I'll deny it three times before the cock grows.

By the way, I get hot for once attractive women.

buwaya said...

"terribly sexist and ageist"

But it is human, built in to the normally functioning animal. Biology does not care about our silly fantasies and ideologies.

Religions at least (usually) acknowledge human nature, and explicitly warn against or find workarounds for those parts that don't suit.

Modern ideologies however simply deny nature.

tim in vermont said...

Modo, if you are reading this, don't take the shtick too seriously, I just think that 'any weapon to hand' feminism is retrograde, especially by feminist standards, and betrays a dull wit.

traditionalguy said...

Starting next year the Management at Augusta National Gold Club will hold a Ladies Amateur Invitational the Saturday before the Masters. The Professor needs to practice and practice. Do it for the women. Meade can Caddy, and whisper encouraging Bob Dylan lyrics to Ann on Amen Corner. But don't let her see the clip of Sergio Garcia on 15 Thursday.

Trumpit said...

I don't care about full-blown, viagra-fueled sexual intercourse (viagra is hard to obtain in the penitentiary). I just wanted a pretty young thing to rub my brassiere while I masturbated. So here I sit in a rural Nevada prison with a life sentence for my crime. Will someone please help me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-xEdbEubjs

YoungHegelian said...

It's tough to believe that, years after the release of the "Shades of Grey" series, someone can, with a straight face, berate men for their use of pornography.

Playing to the romantic & sexual fantasies of women is a yuuuuuuuge business. The Lifetime & Hallmark channels have their holiday romances, cranked out with all the artistic diversity a cookie cutter can manage. The Romance novel business shows no sign of sinking into abeyance. The internet is full of "romance" sites that are as heavily trafficked by women as their pornographic counterparts are by men. And, if a woman's tastes lean a bit to the geeky, there's always the now decades old Slash genre.

Women's fantasies are expressed in text. Men's are expressed visually. That's the real difference in consumption. As for "getting wrong ideas" about human sexuality from fantasy materials, both sources are at fault. Rich, handsome, buff hunks who can read minds are rarer than 38DD babes who actually enjoy acts of a Laslo-ish nature.

Inga said...

“terribly sexist and ageist"

But it is human, built in to the normally functioning animal. Biology does not care about our silly fantasies and ideologies.”

Yes, maybe it’s human. So is cheating on ones wife, having multiple sex partners, engaging is risky behavior, etc. etc. being human doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable or desirable, does it?



JAORE said...

“As if banging the (once) attractive woman means...”

Why is she no longer attractive?

MoDo is younger than my wife by several years. It ain't age that makes her unattractive to me. I'll admit I rarely read her and, years ago I thought she was beautiful enough to be attractive. The more I read the less attractive she became.

My wife, on the other hand, remains ageless despite changes over time. In part because I still find her physically attractive and suspect I always will. More importantly because she's a wonderful person.

Inga said...

“My wife, on the other hand, remains ageless despite changes over time. In part because I still find her physically attractive and suspect I always will. More importantly because she's a wonderful person.”

So MoDo is a terrible person( why, her politics?) and that makes her unattractive to you. Yes that makes some sense and I’m glad to hear that you still find your aging wife attractive because she’s a wonderful person. That’s actually what I wanted to hear.

buwaya said...

"being human...."

No, its not always "acceptable or desirable", but its important to note that it is normal, and to be expected. This sort of thing is what nature has plugged in to our brains to improve the odds of survival of the lineage.

And, as I said above concerning religions, you need a transcendental reason to override nature. Some higher purpose than what nature has programmed for the sake of survival, not just some whim or fashion.

Inga said...

“No, its not always "acceptable or desirable", but its important to note that it is normal, and to be expected. This sort of thing is what nature has plugged in to our brains to improve the odds of survival of the lineage.”

So nature made women ugly after childbearing age? It may be normal and to be expected, but so is being an asshole for some folks. ( I don’t mean you, Buwaya).

FIDO said...

Inga probably doesn't want to hear that as a man, I didn't get women hitting on me until I got to my 40's.

Women get it early. Men get it later. Because we are looking for different things.

mockturtle said...

Tradguy suggests: Starting next year the Management at Augusta National Gold Club will hold a Ladies Amateur Invitational the Saturday before the Masters. The Professor needs to practice and practice. Do it for the women. Meade can Caddy, and whisper encouraging Bob Dylan lyrics to Ann on Amen Corner. But don't let her see the clip of Sergio Garcia on 15 Thursday.

Even I felt sorry for Sergio, whom I don't really like. And did you see Mickelson's whiff yesterday [or the day before]?

James K said...

Why? Is there a double standard that an older woman is no longer attractive, but an older man still is?

Hmmm, that sounds terribly sexist and ageist


No, sounds perfectly normal. I'd suspect that an attraction to younger (i.e. fertile) women is pretty much coded into male DNA, for obvious reasons. The same doesn't hold for females vis a vis younger men, since men are fertile at pretty much all ages over 13. And older men may be better able to provide such things as financial security. I know that sounds old-fashioned, but that's also reality.

The Cracker Emcee Classic said...

Buwaya beat me to it. I always loved the word “aviatrix” and the world it evokes. Odd that the racist, homophobic, imperialist, Christian, patriarchal, world-warring, oppressive, Euro-centric, first half of the 20th Century looks like a higher civilization from 2018.

buwaya said...

"so nature made women ugly..."

Yep. Thats why once beautiful women become "invisible", etc.
Nature built in fertility and fitness signals for a reason.
Human females have a season. Theres no point denying it.

Luckily for many if not most women, (most) men are very forgiving characters and the equipment can be made to work even if the object of their attentions is not natures ideal.

Inga said...

“Inga probably doesn't want to hear that as a man, I didn't get women hitting on me until I got to my 40's.

Some men age well, some don’t. Some men don’t get that air of confidence about them until their forties.

YoungHegelian said...

"so nature made women ugly..."

So, getting old is a fun process for men?!

The things you learn on the internet....

mockturtle said...

The same doesn't hold for females vis a vis younger men, since men are fertile at pretty much all ages over 13. says James K.

But their sperm is not as healthy when middle-aged or older. And they sometimes, to be blunt, have trouble 'getting it up', which is why Viagra. Still, you are entitled to your illusions. Evolutionary theory, as some define it, gives rein to all the sins of self indulgence.

Inga said...

“Yep. Thats why once beautiful women become "invisible", etc.
Nature built in fertility and fitness signals for a reason.
Human females have a season. Theres no point denying it.

Luckily for many if not most women, (most) men are very forgiving characters and the equipment can be made to work even if the object of their attentions is not natures ideal.”


Oh now that is definitely assholish. I’d love to tattle on you to your wife.

buwaya said...

Evolutionary theory works!

Its not always socially convenient, nor is it ethically sound, depending on your system, but there is no denying nature.

Its all about who is going to show up tomorrow.

FIDO said...

Men give women their older years because women give men their younger ones.


A line I stole from someone else.

Inga said...

I bet Buwaya’s (or any older man’s) wife looks at his wrinkling skin, receding or thininning hair and paunchy gut and thinks, “ohhhh baby, you so sexy!”

Inga said...

Mockturtle is right, Viagra is nature’s little helper.

n.n said...

Don't go Pro-Choice. Never go Pro-Choice.

Reconcile, boys and girls. Reconcile. Listen, compromise, accommodate. Keep the high-capacity claws and clubs under lock and key, and away from children, and the elderly.

Inga said...

I won’t even mention the prostate gland in all it’s glory and aging men...

buwaya said...

"Oh now that is definitely assholish..."

Its true regardless. At our age we certainly aren't what we once were, theres no denying it. And objecting to merely stating that is one of those irrational, whimsical reactions that SHOULD NOT drive scholarship, science, or policy. Being careful of the feelings of ones spouse is not a good reason to avoid the truth in the public sphere.

The (deliberate?) confusion of this is the cause of much evil, the extermination of candour and the suppression of truth, the enshrinement of feelings and the worship of the personal.

This is one of those demon-driven modern failures.

n.n said...

Its all about who is going to show up tomorrow.

Duck Dynasty is the only known Natural fitness function. Everything else is religion and ego.

Inga said...

And we mustn’t mention Low T in aging men either.

mockturtle said...

Inga, Buwaya will no doubt tell us of his remarkable body and strikingly handsome face and that women just throw themselves at him. ;-) Men have so many illusions about themselves and seldom look in the mirror except to shave.

Look at the aging male news anchors. Some are downright prunes. Can you imagine a woman that age being allowed to anchor the news?

Inga said...

Hmmmm, why do women who are no longer “viable” after childbearing age live longer than men? Does Mother Nature know something Buwaya doesn’t?

Inga said...

“Buwaya will no doubt tell us of his remarkable body and strikingly handsome face and that women just throw themselves at him. ;-) Men have so many illusions about themselves and seldom look in the mirror except to shave.

Look at the aging male news anchors. Some are downright prunes. Can you imagine a woman that age being allowed to anchor the news?”

True!

buwaya said...

I confess to all the faults above!
Especially about the hair.

Still, as I said, the point is public, not personal. It is one thing to refrain from mentioning this to your spouse. It is quite another to tell lies to a class of teenagers, and insist, there, that what is true is false, and especially that truth is evil. Or insist that only lies are acceptable in public discourse.

Because this is what you are doing.

bagoh20 said...

Mockturtle,

I appreciate the honest answer. I was asking in sincere curiosity.

I'll confess something: As a young man, I was a male escort for a very short time after having a business relationship with female escorts who encouraged me. I only did it once with a young and very attractive female customer. I needed the money, but I would have paid her. Like most men, I was not very good at 21 years old. She got ripped off in my opinion. I'm still surprised that a young attractive woman would do that. She had no idea who she would get, and didn't even know what I looked like. She said her boyfriend was out of town and she was horny. I didn't get to know her - it was only 30 minutes. She must have been a very unusual woman. I'd like to know who she ended up being. She actually resembled a young Maureen Dowd.

Unknown said...

Just wait till the sex robots get really good.

Not quite the same thing, but in Larry Niven's A World Out Of time, a space traveler returns to the Solar System after a voyage of millions of years (time dilation + suspended animation) to find Earth orbiting Jupiter, and a race of immortal boys who had (thousands of years ago) exterminated the race of immortal girls. It turned out the secret of immortality was to "freeze" the body before puberty, and without the sex drive, boys & girls just did not get along. Or as in possibly the most cynical quote I ever read:

The big mistake that men make is that when they turn thirteen or fourteen and all of a sudden they've reached puberty, they believe that they like women. Actually, you're just horny. It doesn't mean you like women any more at twenty-one than you did at ten. --Jules Feiffer

n.n said...

Buwaya will no doubt tell us of his remarkable body and ...

He doesn't come across as either ignorant, deluded, or narcissistic. He could certainly discuss both sides and perspectives of the issue; but, in this context, chooses to focus on the masculine side, which is stereotypically focused on and judging the girl(s). What is the feminine perspective? Do girls focus more on boys or girls? Is judgment context-sensitive?

mockturtle said...

Hmmmm, why do women who are no longer “viable” after childbearing age live longer than men? Does Mother Nature know something Buwaya doesn’t?

Yeah, you'd think, evolutionarily speaking, that we'd just die off at menopause. Of course, a female black widow spiders kill her mate right after he performs his useful function and looks for a new one next time and repeats the process. There are a lot of interesting phenomena in the animal kingdom. A female cat in heat will accept several males and may the best sperm win!

buwaya said...

Women used to harrass me actually, in the modern way of looking at it. I have been very lucky and did not realize my good fortune at the time, both in my natural advantages and in that, somehow, these never got me into trouble.

I don't have much desire to seek such adventures anymore. A married man has reasons both honorable and practical not to take such risks.

bagoh20 said...

"By the way, I get hot for once attractive women."

I agree. Although, I like looking at them, I'm not really attracted to the prospect of sex with young women. After 50, I started seeing older women who still took care of themselves as the sexiest things out there. It's the idea of being on the same page that works wonders. Maybe my testosterone is getting low.

Inga said...

“A female cat in heat will accept several males and may the best sperm win!”

Hahaha, sperm wars! I wonder do older men’s sperm swim slower?

The facts about men, age and fertility

The quality of a man’s sperm decreases with age. As a man ages, it takes longer for his partner to get pregnant. There’s also an increased risk of not conceiving at all.

Whatever the age of the mother, the risk of miscarriage is higher if the father is over 45. The children of older fathers are at greater risk of autism, mental health problems and learning difficulties.

The figures about men, age and fertility

The average time to pregnancy if a man is under 25 is just over 4.5 months but nearly two years if a man is over 40 (if the woman is under 25).
There is a five-fold increase in time to pregnancy if the male partner is aged over 45 years.
For couples having IVF, the risk of not having a baby is more than five times higher if the male partner is aged 41 or older.
The volume of a man’s semen and sperm motility (the ability of sperm to move towards an egg) decrease continually between the ages of 20 and 80.
The risk of miscarriage is twice as high for women whose male partner is aged over 45 than for those whose partners are under 25.
Children with fathers aged 40 or older are more than five times as likely to have an autism spectrum disorder than children fathered by men aged under 30.“

https://yourfertility.org.au/for-men/age/

James K said...

Still, you are entitled to your illusions.

Seriously, you want to question the fact that relationships between women and older men are much more common than between men and older women? Talk about illusions!

mockturtle said...

It goes without saying that a young person is physically more sexually attractive than an old one [of either sex]. But because sexual attraction is more important to the male, they are more apt to seek younger females. Women look for a lot more than firm butts and well developed biceps [or big dicks] and most women wouldn't dream of marrying someone just because he was good in bed. There are more important factors.

n.n said...

A commercial model driving the socially liberal lifestyle.

re: Nature and humans

While there is a physical correlation between animals and humans (e.g. Duck and Dodo Dynasties) within the limits of our perceptive frame, the social practices of humans suggests that origin and expression may diverge wildly, and prejudice has mislead to a pattern matcher's delight.

Unknown said...

Used a free NYT click to read this puffery. Choice quote from Coles, emphasis added: “... But people crave intimacy, which is not easy to create in a hookup. That’s why Britain just appointed a loneliness minister.”
Yes, when government really wants to get rid of something, create a top position! Ah wait - nobody said anything about ridding England of loneliness. They just need to manage it from the top.
Coles says “people” crave intimacy but she and Dowd never mention men actually wanting emotionally satisfying sex. Maybe a lot of men don’t feel anything resembling care or love for the person they’re fucking, but that ain’t me and I doubt I’m in the minority. I cannot get aroused by someone with whom I couldn’t stand to be around otherwise. I have never hooked up in my life, but have had plenty of decent to great sex. The truth is out there! -willie

buwaya said...

And still, regardless of the odds of successful breeding being lower, older men can produce many children, if their social status gets them many attempts with many fertile women.

Frequency, if it can be arranged, can overcome declines in potency.

Consider the breeding success of the clan of Genghis Khan. Or that famous Moroccan Sultan with a thousand children.

FIDO said...

Hmmmm, why do women who are no longer “viable” after childbearing age live longer than men? Does Mother Nature know something Buwaya doesn’t?

No. But FIDO knows something that Inga doesn't: men invented bacterial theory, antisepsis and sulfa drugs.

Which drove the maternal death rates down from 5-25 per 1000 to .1 per 1000 today.

You're welcome!


Taking a look at 1900: Men lived to 47. Women lived to 49. That lack of working building bridges and dynamiting tunnels compared to the dangers of pregnancy.

After 1930's, women took off (granted, they didn't do a lot of combat).

Currently they have about 5 or so years on us because they gobble up the majority of healthcare dollars, particularly when old.


Or 'Why do men die before women? Because they want to.'

buwaya said...

In other words, it is all mathematics.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
YoungHegelian said...

@Mock/Inga,

Hmmmm, why do women who are no longer “viable” after childbearing age live longer than men? Does Mother Nature know something Buwaya doesn’t?

From a long-term, evolutionary viewpoint, it's not clear that women do live longer than men. Most of here have lived in a strange demographic "bubble" where women ordinarily do outlive men. That bubble was created by a modern medicine reducing the death rate for female maladies (e.g. childbirth) but not for maladies brought on by male bad habits (violence, smoking, alcohol). We're now moving out of that bubble as men & women are starting to share equally in what bad habits remain, & men no longer partake of them as before.

It's very difficult to make sense of "life expectancy" numbers before modern medicine because of infectious diseases, violence, & child birth cutting lives short, but we've had really only about 100 years where medical care was so good it could affect those figures in any meaningful way.

n.n said...

There are more important factors.

For men, too. We do not, did not, all paint with the same brushes, or with broad, sweeping strokes. Also, beauty, or more specifically attraction, is indeed in the eye of the beholder. So, here is common ground, an opportunity for reconciliation, for many boys and girls, most men and women, within a Natural and functional social framework.

Ladies, put away the claws. Men, put away the clubs.

Hey, that rhymes. Equal in rights and complementary in Nature.

YoungHegelian said...

@FIDO,

Twisted minds think alike!

Inga said...

And still, regardless of the odds of successful breeding being lower, older men can produce many children, if their social status gets them many attempts with many fertile women.”

But should they?

“Children with fathers aged 40 or older are more than five times as likely to have an autism spectrum disorder than children fathered by men aged under 30.“

I follow a couple of YouTube vloggers who document their severely autistic child’s behavior in their videos and it’s absolutely heartbreaking. These kids aren’t the sweet pliant types like kids and adults with Downs Syndrome. With the increased rate of older fathers and kids with autism, it might make an older man think a bit before he gets all excited about getting a younger woman.

n.n said...

From a long-term, evolutionary viewpoint, it's not clear that women do live longer than men.

That's true. The risk factors are in flux for both women and men. Where women were once protected, they are now exposed. Where men were once exempted, they are now vulnerable. The physical and mental risk factors have been redistributed and are crossing the sex and gender divides.

Bill said...

Always loved aviatrix - that terminal x could be an airplane or propeller.

James K said...

Mockturtle: And if the "illusion" you refer to is that men are fertile their entire lives, the fact that sperm quality and potency decline doesn't really alter the fact, does it? I am under no illusion that a man in his 60s or 70s is the same as a man in his 20s and 30s as far as those things go. Still, the fact remains that men of all ages can father healthy children, and women cannot. And post-menopausal women also experience physical changes directly related to sexual activity, analogous to what you say about men. In any case, of course this all results in men's strong preference for women under 40, even if all they are interested in is sex.

buwaya said...

Living longer, personally, means nothing in the impersonal frame of nature. We non-breeding, non-child-rearing people are irrelevant. We have contributed what we can to the future, and we are done.

We are expendable. We like to think we aren't, but that is fantasy for nearly anyone who does not have superlative, difficult to substitute talents.

Outside of nature, in a transcendental frame, its a different matter.

But for analytic purposes these must be kept separate.

n.n said...

Frequency, if it can be arranged, can overcome declines in potency.

The law of numerous encounters and/or numerous females.

FIDO said...

Here I agree with Inga:

I look with contempt at Imus, Tony Randall and Larry King. All men who IN THEIR SEVENTIES had babies with 20 something women.

Not that the young lady golddiggers didn't deserve their wrinkled butts. They do.

But that the kids have a father who, even if wealthy, will need walkers at the same time that the kids do!

Just pure selfishness!

Now I can fully get behind them wanting to BANG young ladies. But kids? Have you no shame?

chickelit said...

The quality of a man’s sperm decreases with age. As a man ages, it takes longer for his partner to get pregnant. There’s also an increased risk of not conceiving at all.

Go tell that one to Donald Trump.

Virgil Hilts said...

Unknown said. . ., but in Larry Niven's A World Out Of time. . .
Thank you! I read that book when I was about 20 and loved it and have been wanting to reread it but could not remember the title or author. I have twice spent time online trying to figure out which book it was, reading through all of the award nominees (figuring it had probably won the hugo or nebula or been one of the finalists).

FIDO said...

Oops. Larry King's wife was born in 1959. She is 'only' 27 years younger than he is.

Their youngest child is 18. He is 84.

"Wanna play catch, dad?"

"I can't. I broke my hip."

buwaya said...

If you were the Sultan of Morocco or Genghis Khan your autistic children were not a significant problem, if you had plenty of functional spares regardless. I.e., if your breeding success rate was 80% instead of 95% but still produced a few hundred viable members of your clan it mattered little, and note that infant and child mortality probably took care of autism in those days.

Nature does not care about human feelings.

Inga said...

“Go tell that one to Donald Trump.”

Yes, he’s a Super Dick.

FIDO said...

A few details on 'A World Out of Time'.


The immortal 'lost boys' lived in Antarctica, which was tropical.

The immortal girls still lived on another continent, playing toxic manipulative games against one another which the boys found tedious.

Another example of art reflecting reality.

the 4chan guy who reads Althouse said...

I don't know, but I think that maybe the idea that sex should be satisfactory for both people involved is a lot to ask. Because if that is the only sex you can have, you won't be having sex a lot. And if it has to be satisfactory AND the chick can't be drunk, then you might as well have no sex at all.

So I think the concept of mutually satisfactory hetero sex is feminist myth shit, pretty much. I mean, men and women and sex: the parts fit together right, but the thoughts sure don't.

Because evolution and survival of the species meant that men wanted to get as many chicks pregnant as they could, and that only takes two minutes, really. And women were made to want sex to last longer, so that the guy didn't finish quickly and then rush off to impregnate another chick.

That's also why chicks will sometimes make breakfast for the dude the next day: it keeps him around longer, and now that he has had sex and breakfast he is feeling pretty good with life, and would be happy now just to watch some baseball on TV. And after he stays for breakfast a few times she then says she's pregnant, and the shit goes a whole other direction, and now mutually satisfactory sex shit isn't as important as who is going to clean the damn dishes tonight.

And evolution made it harder for a woman to reach orgasm so that they weren't all going around all the time to have sex to get their rocks off, because if they had sex with a lot of dudes all the time then the dudes wouldn't know who the father of the kid would be, and then everything is fucked up because the baby's black and the dude and his wife sure aren't: you know, that kind of fucked-up shit.

And evolution doesn't want to make things more fucked up, things are supposed to get better: evolution's got reasons for not making sex mutually enjoyable, because then people would be just fucking all the time and no other shit would get done, and then we wouldn't have skyscrapers and iPhones, we'd be living in huts like fucking hippies.

So hetero sex isn't about satisfaction, it's about making babies. Really, I think the only way you can get to mutually satisfactory sex is when it is two dudes.

Because two gay dudes are both dudes, so the same shit pretty much works for the both of them. You don't need to try to find the G-spot, you just tickle the balls, it's easy, they're right there. Guys love blow-jobs, so one guy gives a dude a blow-job, then the other guy returns the favor, and now everybody got what they wanted and are happy and mutual and shit.

And neither of these dudes isn't a chick who's all worried about getting pregnant, or wanting to get pregnant, or wondering if those two glasses of wine meant she was kinda raped maybe. The gay dudes just want to get their cock sucked and everything's cool.

I mean, I guess if one of the dudes wants to fuck the other dude in the ass, and the other dude doesn't want to get fucked in the ass, then the gay dudes now have the same problems that hetero couples do. But they can always go back to blow-jobs, so the problem is manageable, and then they can get on to argue about who is going to clean the damn dishes tonight.

I post my shit here.

Inga said...

Barron asks Dad to come outside to throw a football. Trump brings his golf cart....

mockturtle said...

Buwaya offers: Consider the breeding success of the clan of Genghis Khan. Or that famous Moroccan Sultan with a thousand children.

Of course, they had no paternity testing in those days. ;-)

LordSomber said...

"terribly sexist and ageist"

What men find attractive transcends the physical -- something most people acknowledge once they're out of high school.

And casually throwing out "sexist and ageist" accusations certainly won't be putting lead in any man's pencil.

walter said...

“My friends and I all go out on Friday nights, get drunk and hook up. And on Saturday morning, we go down to the health center together to get Plan B.”
--
Nice. Maybe get a coffee and swap details, do some laundry..look up pictures of pustules.

Hey..how did Coles get Captain Kangaroo's jacket?

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