April 28, 2018
"I write this letter at 4 A.M., the dawn of my new existence as an accused sexual predator."
Said Tom Brokaw, quoted in "'My New Life as an Accused Predator': Tom Brokaw Privately Attempts to Discredit his Accuser" (Vanity Fair).
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1 – 200 of 218 Newer› Newest»He must live in Canada.
My impression is that he was previously ready to accept any and all accusations of sexual misconduct at face value, particularly when the accusations were against Republicans. Sauce for the goose, Tom, sauce for the goose.
The more the better - in several ways.
- It is, I hope, the end of feminism. Women are too dangerous for powerful men to associate with in a professional setting, and a decades-old misunderstanding, perhaps, can cause total destruction.
- It helps discredit the MSM.
- It may end social informality of the sort that leads to such accusations. There were customary rules of courtship.
Rachel Maddow signed a letter siding with Brokaw over his accusers, so I guess believing the victim was last year's fad.
Of course it depends on whether he means astronomical, nautical, civil, or "dawn of popular usage", each later in the AM, respectively. Sexual predator OTOH only has one current meaning: male.
I hate decade's old charges. Memories mutate. They feel witch hunty. But I cannot honestly feel sorry for this peddler of innuendo, moral panic, and fakery.
All those torpedoes they sent out at Trump must have been shaped like boomerangs.
Buwaya nails it. Never mind the schadenfreude, this case and others like it have undermined the feminist agenda. There will continue to be much brave talk (and even more diversionary finger-pointing) but every one of these luminaries is silently reevaluating all past behaviors and recalculating future ones so as to manage the vastly increased risk. The #MeToo accusations are immune to statutes of limitation; generally rest on nothing but a say-so; can instantly trigger a cloud of (how odd!) "me too" imitative claims; are generally treated as true until proven false; are catastrophic to the reputation and both professional and personal life of the accused; can never be expunged from the Web; and are increasingly popular for all these reasons.
It is Paris, summer 1793.
"As I got up to leave [the woman's apartment] I may have leaned over for a perfunctory goodnight kiss but my memory is that it happened at the door -- on the cheek." This is his account.
It was only a goodnight kiss with an employee. Followed, I expect, by what he probably called a trip to Yankton.
Always follow the Pence rule and nobody will get hurt.
I'm not especially sympathetic to Brokaw. If more women come forward he's toast, but if there's just this one allegation, give him a break. Maybe he did or didn't make a drunken pass twenty years ago, but that one misdeed shouldn't define his entire life and legacy. This is not an argument that Brokaw would make for anyone except Tom Brokaw, but it's, nonetheless, an argument worth making.
For every person accused of murder, 7 billion people can come forward saying that this person never murdered me. Should we let the accused go then?
Eat the shit sandwich, Tom. Just like the rest have to do.
Funny that. I have cherished memories of being sexually harrassed by women. Several of them still good friends and still to this day harrassing me. Life is good.
We need to take buwaya's point and extrapolate a little farther. In any large organization the role of a mentor in getting ahead ranges from very useful to absolutely necessary. If I was still at work and not retired, and based on what I see today, I would never -- NEVER -- meet privately with any female subordinate at any time for any reason. Any man who meets with any female subordinate or peer except in the way Mike Pence does is risking his career and reputation. And if that means that I would have only mentored men, well, the young women seeking to get ahead in their careers could take it up with NOW.
In case people aren't keeping up, fifty women in the business have come forward saying that Tom was always a gentleman to them.
Brokaw's next book: The Greatest Penetration.
Oh the drama...........
Big Mike: agree. But what about mentoring men who can come forward later to claim gay molestation or pressure for improper familiarities? Was that *really* just a friendly shoulder-punch?
Paris, summer 1793.
Hey Tom--don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Shorter Brokaw: Here I sit, broken-hearted.
""I write this letter at 4 A.M., the dawn of my new existence as an accused sexual predator.""
Oh, the drama!
If you didn’t do it, say so and stick to it. No apologies. If it was misinterpreted and not a big deal to any sane person, say so and stick to it. No apologies.
The douchey emoting inclines me to believe that he’s done far worse in the intervening years.
Shorter Brokaw: What, me too?
Tickle Me Tom never caught on.
Big Mike--and Mike Pence--have a point. Long ago and far away in the mid 1960's I was a law student at Boalt Hall in Berkeley, I was driving along Telegraph Avenue on a rainy day and stopped to pick up a female hitchhiker to get her closer to campus. (My wife and I lived four blocks away from campus).
I mentioned this to one of my fellow law students. He chewed me out good and proper, telling me that was a very dangerous and stupid thing to have done. "You didn't know her. What if she had yelled Rape!?" At least in those days the California Committee of Bar Examiners took charges of criminal conduct very seriously. My friend argued I was putting my professional future in danger by an act of simple kindness. He had a valid argument.
on the cheek
Which of the four?
I have been sexually harrassed by women. In several countries, including this one.
This raises concerns, just a bit.
Luckily I will be retired very soon. The boys though have to deal with this also, as girls do harrass them too.
Rachel Maddow signed a letter siding with Brokaw over his accusers, so I guess believing the victim was last year's fad.
when you have the most trusted name in progressive "news" on your side. Woo. The Hands Up Don't shoot lie pimp who inspired cop assassinations - when that 13 year old boy is on your side, well- woot.
Guilty or not one has to laugh at this situation. ESPECIALLY if not guilty. Here he is, brought down by fake news. After spending half a century propagating fake news it comes back and bites him in the ass. So poetic justice, at least. If he is guilty, perhaps real justice.
As someone else said, it is dangerous out there and women are making it so. I will not be alone in any enclosed space with any woman. I once had a woman get huffy because I refused to get on an elevator with her, telling her I'd wait for the next one. She may have been perfectly nice and I might have been perfectly safe 1,000 or 10,000 times. But, as Brokaw points out, all it takes is a single allegation to bring an entire life down.
So, to any of you women who might get huffy because I won't get on an elevator with you, go fuck yourselves. You have only your sisters (and yourself? Don't know and don't care to find out) to blame.
I also will not use a women's restroom if there is only one other woman in there.
Sometimes paranoia is just normal situational awareness. I constantly ask myself: Am I paranoid enough?
John Henry
I write this letter at 4 A.M., the dawn of my new existence as an accused sexual predator.
As opposed to his previous existence as an unaccused sexual predator?
You would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at this.
What happened to "believe the women?"
Amusing the attempted double standard.
Women must be believed.
Vs.
60 nbc female staffers saying don’t believe.
I write this letter at 4 A.M., the dawn of my new existence as an accused sexual predator.
Said in a voice like a dotard with marbles in his mouth.
Brokaw’s 4 am letter is particularly nasty. How dare that insignificant wannabe accuse me!
What if I tickled her! What if I kissed her cheek!
Well apparently she was not that into him.
Blogger John Henry said...
I will not be alone in any enclosed space with any woman.
--
You could still be accused.
So I watched her interview the other day, looking for a point where he used force. Either physical force, or a threat to her career.
I came away thinking that he made advances that she successfully rebuffed. Awkward, clumsy, inappropriate, and immoral given his marital status, but much ado about not very much.
The hand behind the neck during the attempt for a kiss? That's an alpha move, but not when her body language isn't showing interest by sitting at far ends of a couch with a pillow clutched to her chest. But he didn't force her to kiss him against her will when she rebuffed. And he left. And he didn't interfere with her career.
So, a pass that was rebuffed. If this is the low bar by which we destroy the careers of men, then most of us are in a lot of trouble.
The media, bureaucracy and Democratic operatives (I know, that is repetitive) keep firing torpedoes at Trump that miss and sink themselves instead. It has become quite entertaining. You would think they would learn to temper their rhetoric, but no, they double down on it. It ends poorly.
I lieu of the donkey the symbol for the media, bureaucracy and Democratic Party should be Wile E. Coyote. Because it always ends with Trump going "beep-beep!"
So here comes a woman two decades later to recite the trauma of being kissed and tickled by a colleague. Pitiful. Anybody who lived in the real world in the 80s or 90s would have witnessed, participated or longed for such trivial signs of affection or lust. Good for Tom to push back with a Trump like fury. Because this woman is a bitch. She has delivered a body blow to "feminism" in its current, whiney infuriating form.
'What do you want from me?' And he gave me a look of annoyance like he couldn’t believe I didn’t get it. He said, 'An affair of more than passing affection.'
Vester alleges that Brokaw physically tried to force her to kiss him on two separate occasions, groped her in a NBC conference room and showed up at her hotel room uninvited.
It may end social informality of the sort that leads to such accusations. There were customary rules of courtship.
An Ohio State medical student found this out.
to summarize this case, a male medical student had drinks with a female medical student.
After several such occasions, they wound up in bed. He took her home in the morning and they exchanged texts and calls over the next few months. A year later, as she was flunking out of medical school fo the second time, she discovered that, she she accused him of rape, she had an excuse fo her bad grades. So she did.
He was expelled and had to go to a Caribbean school to graduate. He can't get a residency in Ohio.
There was a hearing and he asked her if her accusation was the reason she was given a third chance to pass the first year.
The Title IX coordinator testified that the decision to allow her a third try
was BEFORE the accusation.
She lied and the case is now in court with the Title IX coordinator at risk of personal damages.
These were not 18 year old freshman students.
I saw this Tom Brokaw molester shit yesterday, so I was figuring Althouse would do a big post on it, like take him apart line by line and trace the history of words and shit. I don't know, maybe she will do that later, it might be, like, lunch-time in Wisconsin. Because I don't even know what time zone Wisconsin is in, I only know the east coast is, like, three hours ahead of Washington, and then there's that daylight-savings time and shit, and Wisconsin is somewhere in the middle.
Anyway, I wrote my first thoughts on the Brokaw molester shit here: Anyway, I think Tom Brokaw's that kind of guy -- like, not a child molester, but that he treats chicks like a child molester treats children before he fucks them after they look at the secret magazines with their pants off.
But now I see that a bunch of big-time journalist chicks have written a letter, like, supporting him and shit, and that gets me confused. Because I thought a dude treating chicks like a child molester treats children was now a bad thing. But then it turns out that sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. And as far as I can figure, only big-time journalists see the difference.
But if chicks want dudes to be consistent in not tickling them when they don't want to be tickled and shit, then they kinda need to be consistent in how they respond to it. Because this shit makes me think sometimes it's okay, but then if I tickle a hot chick at the bus stop I'll be the one who is fucked, just because I'm not Tom Brokaw, and that sucks.
I mean, is tickling a chick sometimes just tickling, or is it always, like, finger-rape? Because I understand if you tickle a chick's tits or, like, vagina, that they can then be pissed at you if you didn't ask them if it was okay to tickle their tits or vagina, I get that. And I realize that you can grab their pussy when you're a star and they just let you do it.
But there's a lot of shit in the middle, and chicks just keep making it more confusing. I mean, most all of us think molesting children is bad, so maybe we need to treat women like children so everyone's cool. But I think chicks don't want to be treated like children. I mean, they say that and shit, but now I kinda wonder if I really should believe them.
I post my shit here.
In Ireland back in the day (c. 36 years ago) men and women hitchiked all the time. Even during the Troubles, even in counties like South Armagh where the Troubles were acute. One day, Sunday morning, while driving through Donegal, I picked up a young girl about my age -- she was beautiful, flaxon-hair, dressed in her Sunday best. I chatted her up of course while taking her to the next town over. She was going home from Sunday mass. She was in addition to being beautiful very friendly, and she spoke in that killer Dongal accent which almost made me swoon. When we arrived her town I asked her to have tea with me. She declined, sadly, and that was that. It was all so innocent. I don't know if that's still the case, I haven't been to Ireland in a few years. I suspect that over there, like here, people are more cautious now: less likely to hitchike, less likely to pick up hitchhikers.
The leftists seem genuinely, truly genuinely, surprised that the new rules they created and meant for application only against republicans/conservatives are actually being applied to them.
Many on the left, like the "brilliant" Maddow (according to certain lifelong republicans), have decided they need to get a handle on this thing muy pronto so as to a effect a "return to normalcy" (republicans/conservatives only impacted).
However, given that entire, literally entire, lefty dominated industries and cultures have delivered carte blanche to lefty dudes to do whatever they wanted forever and be defended because they held the "correct political views", there are simply too many opportunities for lefties to be hoisted on their petard given the incentives in place for women to come forward.
It should be stated again: had Hillary been elected, literally none of this would have been allowed to come to light.
It is only the fever dreams of leftists and their LLR allies that Trump be brought down that enabled this deluge of pent up accusations to be realized.
Hoisted on his own petard. Those who create monsters ought not complain when their creations turn on them.
An American Story
Following Althouse's link you can read the entire letter.
He trashes the woman pretty good, while repeating his SJW bona fides.
Personally, I think laughing it off as a simple misunderstanding might have been better.
There's a Daily Beast article about Picasso. When he was in his forties he met a seventeen year old girl and asked her to model for him. They became lovers. He found the love and adoration of a pretty seventeen year old girl energizing. I can believe that. Anyway, he did a series of portraits with her. One of them recently sold for $139 million dollars. Time and Picasso moved on. She achieved immortality in Picasso's portraits, and, as an extra added bonus, he gave her the chateau where they cohabited. Here's my question: who exploited who. Is there a whom in this equation?
Tom Brokaw was the top on-air person at NBC and she was their newest full-time hire. She did not work on his team, nor had she ever spoken to him when he first put the moves on her. He kept on trying over the years even though she made it clear that she wasn't interested. She knew that NBC didn't keep "troublemakers" on and she was told that people making formal complaints became "troublemakers." She had to keep dancing to avoid him and also avoid offending him. It took time to build her resume so that she could get a similar job at another network.
http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/tom-brokaw-sexual-harassment-nbc-news-correspondent-1202789627/
Brokaw is a liberal, right?
I apply Trump rules.
He did it (whatever "it" is), and it's bad. No further evidence required.
@Drago,
However, given that entire, literally entire, lefty dominated industries and cultures have delivered carte blanche to lefty dudes to do whatever they wanted forever and be defended because they held the "correct political views", there are simply too many opportunities for lefties to be hoisted on their petard given the incentives in place for women to come forward.
But, try & imagine what had to be going on in the minds of the Left that they thought a #MeToo movement would end up doing major damage to the Right as opposed to the Left.
Morality on the American Right is still mostly faith-based. There's lots of folks on the Right who are not believers (e.g. Insty), but if you want to survive on the Right, you'd better tread carefully among the Faithful, no matter what you yourself might think. The Religious Right is quite thoroughly self-policing on matters of sexual indiscretion. Everybody knows the rules going in, after all. Oh, lots of nasty shit still happens, but that nasty shit is secret, really secret. Not "Open Secrets" like Harvey Weinstein. Career destroying "secret". Thus, we have examples such as VP Pence & his "don't be seen with a woman not his wife" rule.
The Left, however, thinks of "The Handmaid's Tale" not as dystopic fiction, but as a documentary on how women are treated by the religious community. They actually thought that all of those Republican men were closeted abusers of women. They just had to be. I mean, just look at Bill O'Reilly, right? That's gotta be what they're all like, since they're so anti-feminist, which the Left takes to be anti-female.
What the Left missed is that 1) many lefty men left behind their religious tradition because of that tradition's strictures against sex. Lefty guys are most definitely there in the hopes of scoring some pussy from Lefty chicks not burdened by religious "hang-ups". 2) In every religious tradition on the planet, women, on average, tend to be more devout than men. Thus, women have outsized formal or informal influence within their religious communities. Religious women are very adept at using the strictures of those communities for their own sexual protection.
All this is basic sociology, yet the MeToo'ers missed it. Somedays, I'd like to start a web site called "Demographics for Democrats" just to help 'em out on these matters.
Vanity Fair indeed!
I apply Trump rules.
He did it (whatever "it" is), and it's bad. No further evidence required.
He is unable to disprove it.
Never believe the woman, is my position.
Thurber lists tickling as one of the valid justifications for hitting a woman.
The disadvantage of hitting a woman is that it leaves two men seated next to each other at a dinner party.
@rhhardin,
Never believe the woman, is my position.
Can we see a show of hands of anyone who is surprised by this statement?
sound of crickets in background
The reason not to believe women is that they're brought up on crazy narratives of hidden meanings, and once they've fastened on any particular hidden meaning you've got a crazy ex-girlfriend on your hands.
You built this, leftists.
Own it.
You can believe the woman if the man vouches for the story, not otherwise.
She was the one being tickled at their first meeting. Does she get to hit him with a claw hammer? Or does Thurber endorse tickling a woman and then hitting her, like you do?
Before I read what anyone else has to say, I will say that I am not buying this woman's story. These accusations are beginning to take on the appearance of playing the slots: "Let's put in a quarter, give her a spin and see what we can get out of it!" 25 years later let's see if we can squeeze some money out of this guy - although you're supposed to do that before you drag his name in the mud.
As more and more big names get dragged down it certainly diminishes any concern one might have had about Trump. Hell he was just one of the boys and nowhere as bad as many. At least he paid up.
If more women come forward he's toast, but if there's just this one allegation, give him a break. Maybe he did or didn't make a drunken pass twenty years ago, but that one misdeed shouldn't define his entire life and legacy.
Sorry, no. At another time I might agree with you. But no more.
The left must be forced to suffer under the rules they impose upon everybody else.
That's the only way this bullshit will stop.
Walter, in TBL, if he were a woman, would be a crazy ex-girlfriend.
Just don't trust women. Block them at every turn. You don't need women to be successful. Keep them where they belong in your personal universe. You are a man ... act like it.
I wonder if Maddow ever got handsy with a female underling.
"I wonder if Maddow ever got handsy with a female underling."
Did she grab Chuck by his pussy? Don't know.
@tcrosse,
I wonder if Maddow ever got handsy with a female underling.
Who knows? But, you've got some female executives accused of some pretty amazing shit without any guys involved.
Btw, another woman has come forward about Brokaw. No details yet.
I should get down on my prayer-bones and thank heaven that I'm retired and that my first wife doesn't know where I am.
If she was in her early twenties, blond with blue eyes, we know he has a type. Based on his behavior with Linda Vester, he tried it with others. Guaranteed.
The Left, however, thinks of "The Handmaid's Tale" not as dystopic fiction, but as a documentary on how women are treated by the religious community.
You are describing one of my former co-workers. He explained it describes where Trump and the religious right wanted to take this country. I told him it describes where Islam and Sharia Law currently are, and that he should consider that before advocating bringing in any more "Syrian" refugees.
The failure to get Trump on this issue is causing a change in the MeToo movement, and quickly. The Left simply doesn't have the patience required in walking the talk in this regard. Had Charlie Rose or Matt Lauer been accused even 6 months later, they would have beaten the charges.
Miley Cyrus still hasn't sexually predatored me.
"You are a man ... act like it."
I wish the Professor would comment on some of this stuff; I know she DOES have an opinion.
In any case, I am willing to wager that the outlets that originally reported this story have another accuser in hand- they are just waiting for Brokaw's denial to move forward with it. I would expect it by the end of the weekend.
Darrell said...
"Btw, another woman has come forward about Brokaw. No details yet."
Damn, quicker than I thought!?
Taylor Swift chased me up the side of the Empire State building once.
He was happy with this as a tool to cut down Republicans and conservatives. The blade twisted in his hand...or more likely, was wielded by HER hand.
Isn't it funny that Nora Donnell was the greatest beneficiary at the fall of Matt Lauer.
I wonder what woman will profit from the destruction of Brokaw.
A lie can make it around the world before the accused can get his pants back on.
It would appear that Leftists were happy to cut down all the laws and protections across this great land in their attempt to get Donald 'Devil' Trump. But here they stand without any protection whatsoever now that the Devil has turned around and come after them.
Tom Brokaw NBC: Creepy groper.
Peter Jennings ABC: Passed away.
Dan Rather CBS: Fake and Inaccurate.
Charlie Rose PBS and CBS: Creepy Groper.
The Left has passed its sell-by date.
If she was in her early twenties, blond with blue eyes, we know he has a type. Based on his behavior with Linda Vester, he tried it with others. Guaranteed.
If he did it with others, the letter he wrote will piss them off becuase they may take it personally. Not everybody is in a position, or strong enough to come forward.
Shorter version of Brokaw's letter: "Do you know who I am?"
If she was in her early twenties, blond with blue eyes, we know he has a type. Based on his behavior with Linda Vester, he tried it with others. Guaranteed.
Young and available seems to be most popular type
bagoh20 wins the day.
Well played, sir.
Yancey Ward: "...another accuser in hand." That is definitely how James O'Keefe plays the game. You should start a betting pool.
If a woman is capable of lying about the sexual assault, she can lie about where and when it happened, so the Pence strategy is still vulnerable. Nobody has a provable alibi for all their time.
I've always been too shy to hit on women, and luckily everybody I know knows it.
I think that being a known enthusiastic cocksucker is another pretty good defense, if you really want some insurance.
Bagoh20: threadwinner.
Young and available
Young and unavailable, actually.
bagoh20,
The problem with that strategy, these days, is that you might have identified as female during that time and then later identified as male when you were harassing women.
If you don't file a complaint
If you don't go to the cops
If you don't do a rape kit
Obviously your priorities were something FAR different than justice and so it 'didn't happen' because you never established it happened.
Or short form: If you didn't care then when it happened, why should we care now?
I understand this is a callous position. As the person who is vulnerable to accusations without evidence, this is a protective stance by men. But it bodes ill for society.
One defense for a man is be poor.
"Just don't trust women. Block them at every turn. You don't need women to be successful. Keep them where they belong in your personal universe. You are a man ... act like it."
I find this to be incredibly cynical.
Tell me, does Mike Pence not trust women as an entire gender or does he understand appropriate distance and appearances? I live in a small Mormon town. This idea that women and men who are not married to each other should not, for example, teach a youth class in church together or show up at a person's house unannounced, or meet for any clearly legitimate reason alone together is a commonsense rule and we think nothing of it. This certainly does not mean that we would dismiss a entire gender as untrustworthy.
How far society has fallen from commonplace expectations.
"Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported."
--Hillary Clinton
I watched her video. Interesting.
She makes it very clear that she was not disturbed because of how he was behaving, she was disturbed because of who he was. She was afraid that if she rejected his advances, no matter how, her career would be damaged or ended. If almost any other man had behaved the same way, she would have had no problem at all dealing with it.
On the one hand, I found myself thinking, "Look, Lady, he's not going away until you tell him to go away. So tell him to go away." I mean, Hell. What do you call a good-looking woman who doesn't know how to make men leave her alone? Pregnant. You aren't pregnant, so you must know the drill.
On the other hand, she was clearly troubled by the whole thing, precisely because he was Tom Brokaw. I'm not sure where to go with that. Is it a crime when he does it, but not when I do it?
I think that being a known enthusiastic cocksucker is another pretty good defense, if you really want some insurance.
"Your Honor, I swear I never laid a finger on her, on my honor as an enthusiastic cocksucker."
roger,
If you can convince the Left to walk back their current position, as quoted by Rae, then you will have done more good on this Earth than all but a few.
I sincerely wish you well but I don't think it's possible to get the pee out of the pool.
There were two women accusers, one an unnamed production assistant.
YH: "What the Left missed is that....."
I don't disagree with anything you've written.
But I would add the most salient point regarding who is getting called out with this #MeToo "stuff", the lefties.
The "right" has no protective cover from the society at large. Zero.
If someone on the Right or, rather, someone who is simply not of the left, pulls something it is literally just a matter of time before they will be exposed. Naturally, the leads fewer dudes on the Right who are predisposed to such behavior to actually try and pull it off.
On the left however, they know there are literally armies of Inga's running around who would protect them.
Think about it, EVERYONE in Hollywood knew what those lefty dudes were and are doing. Including the pedophiles.
EVERYONE involved at the highest levels on the political left knew what they were/are doing.
Everyone at the biggest lefty law firms knew what was going on because they were hired to procure the services of former intelligence agents to be used to attack/intimidate victims of these lefties.
Everyone on the boards of directors of these big time lefty production companies knew what was going on because they actually, literally, wrote into their executive contracts the payoff structure, along with the law firm retainers, to "deal with" these sexual predations.
Literally hundreds of lefty women in Hollywood supported and worked with these predators to get those women alone and vulnerable, and then to cover it up.
Can you imagine what the lefties like Inga would be saying if entire industries and law firms and intimidation groups existed on the right as they have already been proven to exist on the left?
Plus, she says she told him, "You're married, and I'm Catholic". That explains why all those bitches signed that letter. Keep your stinking Christian chastity to yourself, bigot!
Pence is on the same page as you, Roger. Your "dismiss a entire gender as untrustworthy" statement is just as unfair to Pence as it would be towards you.
The best defense is a good offense: accuse women first.
On the other hand, she was clearly troubled by the whole thing, precisely because he was Tom Brokaw. I'm not sure where to go with that. Is it a crime when he does it, but not when I do it?
That is exactly the problem.
If I hit on Linda Vester (or better, a Norah O'Donnel, more my type) as just a guy, she has no sense of fear since I am nobody. A schlub.
Brokaw has power over her future. He is a person of respect whose attitudes and desires she is beholden to cater to...within a manageable degree.
As stated, that is a dance, a knife edge, a balancing act.
But not a particularly DIFFICULT one, since she got away with it. Norah O'Donnell doesn't indicate SHE had any such issues?
It happens to pretty women all the time. You don't get the good (real career advantages. You don't see Chanty Binx or Trigglypuff offered a wonderful job like Ms. Vester) without the bad (everyone with testosterone and a pulse wants to hit on you).
But Brokaw was trading on that assumed deference to protect himself.
So I am happy to see him smacked around like that.
It would suck to be in a business where a person can sink your entire career if you displease them. It used to be commonplace, but has faded with the rise of worker's rights and easy litigation. That kind of power imbalance is basically un-American in my opinion. People should consider that risk before going into such a career. Those careers unfortunately usually have the biggest payoffs if you survive the obstacle course. Maybe entertainers should get tenure.
I guess the power inbalance has shifted or balanced.
I know she's telling the truth because she described how he called her the next day trying (each time) to reframe what had taken place. After you agreed to meet me, remember? That sounds like every Brokaw story I've ever heard.
So the Women of NBC defending Brokaw also knew nothing about Matt Lauer.
“Tom never did it to me” isn’t good support. Brokaw, like most men, didn’t want to fuck Andrea Mitchell or Rachel Maddow. Brokaw’s accuser is credible because was very attractive and young at the time.
More women will come forward. Women who were attractive and young when Tickle Tom hit on them Big League.
His behavior was so stupid that I wonder if the guys in the office weren't taking the piss and telling him that Linda Vester has the hots for him (she told me she wants to jump your bones every time she sees you!!!11!!!) Perhaps it was Brian Williams, looking to move up.
Blogger walter said...
Blogger John Henry said...
I will not be alone in any enclosed space with any woman.
--
You could still be accused.
Yes and that is the Hell of it. No matter what I do to minimize my risks, I can't ever eliminate them.
And folks like Tom Brokaw and many others have promulgated the meme that the woman MUST ALWAYS BE BELIEVED.
And there is no defense.
John Henry
Memo to Tom Brokaw: Have no sympathy whatsoever for any smug liberal like yourself when you get caught in the gears of the leftist machine you happily helped to create. Tight Sneakers, buddy.
As Kurt Schlicter wrote:
"Today in America, a despised minority that is really no minority is the target of an establishment that considers this minority unworthy of respect, unworthy of rights, and unworthy of having a say in the direction of this country. It’s an establishment that has one law for itself, and another for its enemies. It’s an establishment that inflicts an ever-increasing series of petty humiliations on its opponents and considers this all hilarious.
"That’s a recipe for disaster. You cannot expect to change the status quo for yourself and then expect those you victimize not to play by the new rules you have created. You cannot expect to be able to discard the rule of law in favor of the rule of force and have those you target not respond in kind.
"Liberals ask how a baker can believe that making a cake for a same sex wedding violates his conscience, but they don’t think about how the standard they are setting is that the government now gets to determine the validity of individual beliefs. Do they want us passing judgment on them?
"Liberals imagine that their president can simply take whatever actions he pleases – including ones he previously admitted were unconstitutional – and that the next Republican president won’t do the same. Except then it will be to negate their cherished policies."
...and...
"You are really going to hate the new rules."
Tom Brokaw is experiencing the new rules.
Brokaw is not an "accused sexual predator." He is a sexual predator. The accusation is enough to establish guilt these days.
bagoh20 said...
"It would suck to be in a business where a person can sink your entire career if you displease them. It used to be commonplace, but has faded with the rise of worker's rights and easy litigation."
A couple years ago, I quit a job I had worked hard to get and wanted to keep, because they transfered my boss and his replacement was a total asshole. He didn't want to sleep with me, but he sure as Hell did like to fuck with me. I took it 'til it started getting to me, and then I quit. I have to confess, I didn't tremble all over for two minutes like this gal did. I just found myself thinking about killing him all the time.
"Tell me, does Mike Pence not trust women as an entire gender or does he understand appropriate distance and appearances?"
My boyfriend and I go out with other couples all the time. I might call one of the women and invite them to go shopping or out to lunch. I would not call up one of the husbands and ask him to go to lunch or out for drinks. The women are my friends; the men aren't, not in the same sense.
Exiled:
And you and your boyfriend go out with couples for the same underlying reasons.
Imagine the odd scene in which your boyfriend suggests you call 3 or 4 of your girlfriends so the two of you can hang with a group of unattached women. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Or you suggest the same of him because you want to hang with 4 or 5 guys, of which your boyfriend will be one. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Everybody I know understands these mechanics.
The sick bastard may have imagined she was a "closet freak".
LMFAO!
All the leftie commentary about the defects of the Pence Rule that focus on the broken nature of masculinity invariably fail to address the central advantage to rigorously observing the Rule: it will be virtually impossible for a woman to make a #metoo accusation that is at all believable. Apart from protecting his heart from evil, more significantly, he is protecting his reputation and career from irretrievable and peremptory ruin.
I sympathize with the mentoring argument, but, as a successful man, it’s not worth the risk even to the slightest degree. You are otherwise left with the (not remote) possibility of writing turgid prose at 4am at the dawn of your new status as a sexual predator.
- Krumhorn.
I suppose the best symbol for Leftist institutions these days (like journalism, academia, and politics) is a fast food franchise run by a weaselly looking middle-aged "manager", with an all female staff of pregnant-bellied sixteen year old girls.
Oh, how the girls plot & vie for that coveted assistant manager position!
Lewis Wetzel:
How the hell is that guy going to afford all that child support?
#metoo'nt
October 21, 2014
"I thought only "yes" means yes: Did Obama get true, verbalized consent from that woman before he kissed her?
No. He did not. People are focusing on Obama's interplay with a man who said "Don't touch my girlfriend" as Obama was voting in Chicago, demonstrating how to vote.
But let's talk about the woman. Obama orders her to kiss him: "You're gonna kiss me. Give him something to talk about. Now, he's really jealous." As you see in the video, he makes that declarative statement and immediately grabs her and kisses and hugs her.
Why is that acceptable? He's using her in an effort to regain dignity and to humiliate the man who humiliated him. It might all be dismissed as play humiliation and play counter-humiliation. But the woman's body was used as an object of that play, a means of communication between men."
Posted by Ann Althouse at 10:52 AM
So the Women of NBC defending Brokaw also knew nothing about Matt Lauer.
“Tom never did it to me” isn’t good support. Brokaw, like most men, didn’t want to fuck Andrea Mitchell or Rachel Maddow. Brokaw’s accuser is credible because was very attractive and young at the time.
It's signed by over sixty professional female colleagues. A good reputation might not count for much in right-wing land, but that's alternative reality speaking. And nice way to cherry pick out two of them - an older woman and a lesbian - as some kind of "proof" of the matter.
Also, nice way to denigrate/objectify women and reduce them just to looks. But for some (most?) people, character matters. Even in women. Just not for you or the other reactionaries.
It seems pretty likely that Brokaw was way too serious a man to have been interested in this fame and name-seeking strumpet's frivolity. Lauer was a phony, Brokaw was/is not.
It seems pretty likely that Brokaw was way too serious a man to have been interested in this fame and name-seeking strumpet's frivolity.
Drag a hundred-dollar bill through NBC, you never know what you'll find.
Character still matters. It's just that since right-wingers have revealed themselves to be such poor judges of it, no one's left to take up the banner of that obvious fact as a "cause."
But the letter signed by over 60 colleagues of his is important. (Perhaps mccullough might even deign to find one of them "attractive" enough to refute his case).
Either way, it's that "Me Too 'Movement'" learning to regulate itself. They know that some women will lie, and they know the damage that causes people who want others to be believed. This FAUX News whack job (and her one anonymous friend) basically served the "cause" of proving that liars and fame-seekers won't be able to hang on to whatever crackdown they want to happen to the actual gropers.
Ritmo/ToothlessRevolutionary is a rape denier and despicable misogynist. Brokaw is a fucking anti-American globalist and all-around cocksucker. But not the kind of cocksucker above suspicion in a female-rape allegation situation.
Drag a hundred-dollar bill through NBC, you never know what you'll find.
Right. All sixty+ of them. Sure, whatever you say.
As I just posted, they're pushing back against the impulse that the obviously easily baited fame and $ seekers will exploit to get their own 15 minutes of fame.
Learn to be rational. If false accusations are no less a problem than abusive behavior then obviously the truth of their distinction will be sought. Just not by fact-hating, money-grubbing, grievance-mongering, right-wing fools and liars with an ideological axe to grind so huge that it can't even determine the difference between reality and ideology.
How appropriate that this idiot nobody worked for so long for and was so enthralled with Roger Ailes. What a great service she's decided to provide to anyone who takes false accusations as seriously as assault. But it seems right-wingers don't think either is as important as their stupid and phony, weak political agenda.
Thanks for playing.
President All-Wee-Weed Up probably was above suspicion in recent years.
Ritmo/ToothlessRevolutionary is a rape denier and despicable misogynist. Brokaw is a fucking anti-American globalist and all-around cocksucker. But not the kind of cocksucker above suspicion in a female-rape allegation situation.
Translation: "My name is Darrel and as a right-wing tool neither rape nor abusive workplaces nor false accusations matter as much to me as a stupid political agenda that has failed to deliver anything for the American people."
Six hundred women could say that Bill Clinton didn't touch them. That still wouldn't make up for the dozens of women he raped and/or molested.
Translation: Ritmo/ToothlessRevolutionary can't even reproduce a name when he sees it.
President Pee-Pee Tape said...
It's signed by over sixty professional female colleagues.
It was signed by 60 leftists working at a globalist propaganda factory.
Nobody is impressed by getting a bunch of group think fascists together to try to discredit a whistle blower.
Except for other group think fascists.
Six hundred women could say that Bill Clinton didn't touch them. That still wouldn't make up for the dozens of women he raped and/or molested.
Not if they didn't work closely enough with him through the same workplaces and mentoring situations that this FAUX News Nooby Nobody claims he exploited.
Character matters. Democracy matters. Right-wing ideology does not.
You should look up the word "exploitation" in the dictionary, someday. Right after you learn the meaning of the word, "aristocracy."
Brokaw can die in shame along with the MSM. Beclowned and discredited. And unmourned.
It was signed by 60 leftists working at a globalist propaganda factory.
And you and Darrell are working on a backyard, back-alley white nationalist propaganda grievance rattler. So what?
Nobody is impressed by getting a bunch of group think fascists together to try to discredit a whistle blower.
Nobody is impressed by your persistent elevation of irrelevant political grudges over facts and simple issues of character and decent human relations. Try telling that to the CEO or the judge, loser.
Except for other group think fascists.
The circuitous conclusion that prematurely proves its own premise. Your failures at basic reasoning mirror those anticipated in 1984.
Drag a hundred-dollar bill through NBC, you never know what you'll find.
Right. All sixty+ of them. Sure, whatever you say.
That paraphrase of Carville referred to the accuser, who you called a fame and name-seeking strumpet. Try to keep track of your own shit.
Maybe if Tom is real nice he can get Hillary to get her old team back together again to go trash some more female victims of leftist abusers.
Harvey Weinstein was able to get Oprah and Meryl out there to defend him. Maybe they can put a good word in for good old Tom Brokaw.
That would make over 62 professional leftists defending him!
"An affair of more than passing affection."
What a stand-up guy!
Just like Toothless/Pee Pee
Brokaw no Bill O'Rielly or Matt Lauer.
More of a Charlie Rose, somber, sober, serious type.
3 a.m. knock phone call and grope may involve alcohol.
That paraphrase of Carville referred to the accuser, who you called a fame and name-seeking strumpet. Try to keep track of your own shit.
Try not to CONFUSE your own shit. A president from nearly 20 years ago and his political advisor have nothing to do with this. People can have their own lives and their own perceptions and experiences and cultural moments even if it doesn't conform to your black-and-white obsessively politicized worldview. Clinton was a popular president, and you resent it. That has nothing to do with Brokaw's much greater credibility on the actual facts of his own case. Or are people not individuals any longer? Who's collectivizing now? When did personal responsibility take a backseat to your need to politicize responsibility?
Your politics is so over.
It is fun to watch a network that is so professional... at trashing female accusers.
NBC got a lot of practice trashing all of Bill Clinton's rape victims.
They are very professional trashers of women.
No one is as "somber, sober, or serious" as Trump, but that's because he is pathologically incapable of laughter and therefore, humility -- and credibility.
Remember when all the women who worked around Clarence Thomas testified in his defense? The Lefties said it didn't matter--although they made them testify in the past 1 AM Chicago time. Anita Hill was to be believed.
Achilles is just butt-hurt that Roger Ailes and O'Reilly turned out to be less interested in professional journalism than they were in playing grab-ass and masturbating to unwilling collegial ears over the phone. The Clinton episode was untidy, but so was society at the time. People know how to deal more maturely with sex and with factual and social reality now - at least as long as they're not too dumb to confuse the distinction between a LOOFAH and a FELAFEL.
It isn't like NBC has a history of spiking stories detrimental to powerful leftists
And of course NBC is totally professional about how their on air talent treats women. They absolutely have a stellar record of dealing appropriately with their female employees complaints.
No, I actually don't remember that, Darrell. My grievance file only goes back so far... not nearly as far as yours does. Especially when it comes to two nobodies like Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. But hey, that whole Coke can and Long Dong Silver story was about as entertaining as anything that Washington could come up with at the time, I guess.
Just calm down and stop politicizing everything. Eventually people will have to figure out the difference between politics and sleaze and crime, even if for you they're all one and the same and you're equally fixated on pursuing all of them to the ends of the earth.
You just look really stupid defending NBC and attacking women that have been abused, professionally of course, at that institution for decades.
It isn't like NBC has a history of spiking stories detrimental to powerful leftists.
You're just all riled up because of the history Trump ally and owner of The National Enquirer has of "spiking stories detrimental to" white nationalist presidents who pay off porn stars.
Yeah, I think I trust NBC over a guy who needed The Enquirer's owner to be his ally. And not but much, but enough.
But maybe that's just me.
Brokaw was actually a big man in the politico-media milieu of the Clinton administration. An insider indeed.
It would be interesting to interrogate the fellow about what he recalls about what all the politicians of the time were getting up to.
He won't talk of course.
On the face of it good material for a Casanova-style memoir, if the lot of them weren't so boring.
You just look really stupid defending NBC and attacking women that have been abused, professionally of course, at that institution for decades.
Whatever. Go defend the entire culture of FOX News. I heard Bill's got his own podcasts, now. He asks, "Who put the moon there?" over and over again. And also says, "Fuck it! We'll do it LIVE!"
Lol. Get a grip, dude. You're just proving that politics is more important to you than rape, consent or false accusations. If more comes out, go deal with it then. Until then, this looks like a duck and smells like a duck and quacks like a duck - a duck that lies. Badly. You're just poor judges of the facts and of character. Wake me up when something more credible than this comes along. Until then, zzzzzzzzz.
No one is as "somber, sober, or serious" as Trump, but that's because he is pathologically incapable of laughter and therefore, humility -- and credibility.
Just calm down and stop politicizing everything.
Somebody has material for a few dozen novels on this whole thing. Elaborate structures of irony and hypocrisy.
Damn shame Tom Wolfe is so old.
The Clinton (rape) episode was untidy, but so was society at the time.
You're just proving that politics is more important to you than rape,
Partisan hack Toothless Revolutionary--Mr. Lefty Lockstep--lectures people about politicking. Priceless.
It would be wise to notice that these accusations never come individually wrapped. There will be more, so assuming it's just one lying woman is going out on a thin limb, but wisdom is as wisdom does.
I don't think it would be that hard for Brokaw to argue that he's a dedicated cocksucker. He could make a sex tape now if he doesn't already have one.
You're just proving that politics is more important to you than rape,
What are you going to do... trot out comments I made on Clinton and rape accusations from 20 years ago? I'm not aware I made any but you are the one with a big shoebox file of comments you collect on everyone so I suppose anything's possible.
But let's not forget who deletes more of his own comments than anyone else on here.
And here's Mr. Schizophrenic "False Respect for Women" talking, just two nights ago:
"That's it? Your mother sucked thousands of dick and took it in the ass to pay for education and that is the best you can do? SAD!"
Fucking clean out your own head and get your own act together, wack job.
Squeamish,
What about Clinton's rape of Monica Lewinski?
Are you OK with that?
John Henry
Try posing a serious question and addressing me in a courteous way John Henry and then I'll respond to you.
Although that was pretty lame, though. Name one person, including (and obviously, most importantly) Lewinsky herself, who referred to anything between her and Bill Clinton as a "rape."
Perhaps the laws on these things are different in Puerto Rico.
Perhaps some people have bad memories.
Perhaps some people just aren't very up on what's going on in 2018.
Perhaps some political axes need a lot more sharpening and grinding than others.
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. You were trying to convince me a week or so ago of what an interesting and cultivated guy you were, John Henry. Perhaps we could talk about fly fishing, instead. Although I'm sorry to hear that The Old Cooze-Hound, Bill Clinton brings out so much of the bad in you that you resort to dragging him up whenever anything compelling and even remotely political raises its head in the modern day and age. I guess some people just can't learn what's important and what's not.
Can you imagine a more disparate position of power than between an intern and the President of the United States?
Even worse than the top on-air person at a television network and a brand new full time hire.
I guess Ritmo woke up. Hangover much ?
And here's Mr. Schizophrenic "False Respect for Women" talking, just two nights ago:
"That's it? Your mother sucked thousands of dick and took it in the ass to pay for education and that is the best you can do? SAD!"
Never happened?
Blogger Birkel said...
Lewis Wetzel:
How the hell is that guy going to afford all that child support?
Hmmm. You are right. Let me try another metaphor.
Leftist institutions, like journalism, the academy, and politics, are like a Hooters restaurant run by an overweight, middle-aged, twice divorced man with vague connections to organized crime. The Hooters girls struggle and vie for the coveted position of "hostess."
There’s a void at the top of the NBC news team that cannot be filled by a man.
There’s a woman out there who feels she was wronged by Trump and has been languishing in a morning “ladies show” because of a non-compete clause in a FOX news contract.
Now that civil contracts are no longer enforceable — at least when they involve Donald Trump — I think the stage is set for an immediate Me-Again comeback.
@Pee Pee Man:
What was the name of that enzyme-containing detergent you recommended the other night? It’s impractical to wade through all those threads but I know there’s a pony in there.
Well played, Lewis Wetzel. :-)
Zout.
i.e. protease, lipase, amylase.
“Zout” is Dutch for salt. Is it a Unilever product, by chance?
Yes. Why not google it?
I’m in these slow process of degoogling and de-Amazoning.
I wonder if PPPT is "sleep posting" like Joy Reid and will remember none of it tomorrow.
That apparently is a thing on the left.
Drago said...
I wonder if PPPT is "sleep posting" like Joy Reid and will remember none of it tomorrow"
Haha! That's her excuse now?
Pee Pee Tape
Translation: Anyone defending people whom I like are all honest and full of character.
Anyone who defends someone I don't like needs to be forensically examined for their 'collusion'.
She said, He said - but my base reaction is that I hope Tom Brokaw, who is my age, remembers 1996 better than I do. Details blur and perceptions may or may not be accurate. But Linda Vester must have the same problem. Who knows for sure? It occurs to me that she may have been sexually harassed or worse, but her new boss was none other than Roger Ailes.
And in the finest female tradition it seems, (long after man-hating became popular) via the Feminist Movement, three women waited 23 years to cash in on the free flow of money available to accusers.
Timing is everything and the Cosby trial just ended which indeed resulted in a 30-year sentence for Cliff Huxstable.
It is a potential, maximum sentence of 30 years. Currently Cosby is on house arrest.
“A president from nearly 20 years ago and his political advisor have nothing to do with this.”
So little to do with it that the Democrat’s just ran the rapist’s chief enabler as their presidential candidate. Whoops.
exiled: "Haha! That's her excuse now?"
No, but its the only excuse left to her.
I can't wait to see how LLR Chuck deflects for her. He was very creative with his innumerable defenses of other dems/lefties so I'm confident he'll come up with something novel.
Somebody remind me: When Roy Moore's (R-Alabama) accusers remembered things from 30 or 40 years ago, what standard of proof was required to know the accusations were true?
I remember the standard of proof for Al Franken (D-Minnesota) was "photographic evidence may not be dispositive of the accusations' truth" but I cannot remember if that was a one-off standard.
So, which standard are we going to use for Tom Brokaw (D-CBS News)?
I can't help but notice that since its another big time dem being accused that gadfly is in full "gee whiz who can say one way or the other" mode.
gadfly remains the Poor Man's LLR Chuck.
Unexpectedly.
Translation: Anyone defending people whom I like are all honest and full of character.
Anyone who defends someone I don't like needs to be forensically examined for their 'collusion'.
Well, I guess that's how you look at it... but that's because you're attracted to people with poor character.
"Linda has impeccable credential a remarkable intellect, soaring academic and a reporting career in real combat zones that easily eclipses Brokaw. She left television when she no longer needed the money, still does not need the money. She never needed the fame. She is far more credible than Brokaw.
There is no way, absolutely that she raises these issues if they are not completely true. You can take it all to the bank, with the equal certainty that Brokaw does not write that ugly email if it was not all true."
Forget it Jake, it’s NBC.
TTR/Ritmo/PPPT
Which of the recently applied standards do you suggest? The Roy Moore standard or the Al Franken standard?
Squeamish,
How was I discourteous? Usually I am a pretty courteous guy and only discourteous on purpose and when it is deserved. If you will explain, perhaps I can apologize and not do it again.
Anyway, to your points:
In the United States, including Puerto Rico, rape is pretty much a state crime. Used to be a capital crime in some states though never in PR, I don't think. The definition will generally be along the lines of "non-consensual sexual penetration" Non-consensual anal or oral sex may aggravate the offense in some jurisdictions.
As to who is saying that Clinton "raped" Monica L, I've not heard that specific word used. But Monica L says was non-consensual (and she is a woman so right by definition) so that meet the definition above.
Perhaps it is you who is not up on what is going on in 2018. As Monica L said in February:
"I’m beginning to entertain the notion that in such a circumstance the idea of consent might well be rendered moot."
So, yeah. Let's call a spade a spade. Bill Clinton raped Monica Lewinski by having non-consensual oral sex with her. (And splooging on the dress)
in addition to that, Willy Jeff lied her into sex. He led her to believe that he would leave Crooked Hillary and marry her. Assange has spent the past 4-5 years in the Ecuadoran embassy because he is being charged with a form of rape by 2 Swedish women for lying them into sex.
John Henry
Name one person, including (and obviously, most importantly) Lewinsky herself, who referred to anything between her and Bill Clinton as a "rape."
That would be Juanita Broaddrick, and probably Kathleen Willey (though, if you want to split hairs, I believe Willey only said that William Jefferson Clinton sexually assaulted her -- I don't recollect that she ever used the "r" word).
Squeamis sez,
You were trying to convince me a week or so ago of what an interesting and cultivated guy you were, John Henry.
I was? Perhaps you could remind me? I like to think I come across as interesting and cultivated in my normal notes with no special effort for someone like you needed. But perhaps I've forgotten.
Perhaps we could talk about fly fishing, instead.
We could, if you like. I did some in the 50's, even learning to tie flies from Boy's Life articles. I didn't do all that much then and have forgotten much of the little I knew, but I'll be happy to try. Or we could talk about spearfishing, lobstersnatching and conking and SCUBA diving in general. I am somewhat more current and knowledgable on that. My diving days may be in the past but it is the less distant past.
What I am more into these days is going after foolfish. Sometimes the foolfish will come right up to the hook, sniff at the bait, complain that it is not up to their exacting standards. Then they say "Nyah, nyah, you can't catch me." Then 5 minutes later they can't help themselves. They come back and bite down on the hook and I just reel them in.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel and it's your turn in the barrel every day, Squeamish. Isn't it? (In more ways than one, IYKWIMAITYD)
Folks, step back and watch. Squeamish will resist replying to this note. He will claim the bait is not up to his standards. He may even post something saying how he is not gonna be hooked again.
Then he'll bite. Unless Squeamish's pronoun is she. In that case, apologies all round. Then she'll bite. I predict I'll snag him/her again before midnight.
John Henry
Blogger FIDO said...
Anyone who defends someone I don't like needs to be forensically examined for their 'collusion'.
And we know how much s/he/it enjoys "forensically examining" other people's "collusions", don't we?
John Henry
Name one person, including (and obviously, most importantly) Lewinsky herself, who referred to anything between her and Bill Clinton as a "rape."
I don't know if I would call it "rape." Maybe there is a word for when the most powerful politician on the planet deigns to receive a BJ from a lowly intern. "Harmless affair" doesn't seem to be apt.
A clarification to the above. Splooging on the dress was not what made it rape. It was just deplorable manners. First on Monica's part but then on Willy Jeff's part.
John Henry
Name one person, including (and obviously, most importantly) Lewinsky herself, who referred to anything between her and Bill Clinton as a "rape."
How about Juanita Broaddrick? Her allegations explicitly used the word "rape".
Hey now, Quaestor,
That's old news..regardless the tangential resurfacing via Hil'.
Bill would have been re-arranging the China collection as first lady..
Mockturtle
How can The Pence rule help? You cannot prove, 25 years later, that you really were never alone, that you really never whispered a proposition. The only rule that can help is innocent until proven guilty.
Michael K
They should both be sued into penury. Especially the coordinator.
"How can The Pence rule help? You cannot prove, 25 years later, that you really were never alone, that you really never whispered a proposition. The only rule that can help is innocent until proven guilty."
Because you have a 3rd party witness to events that happened. As to events that never happened, I suppose that's a different quandary, easily solved if you are always where you are supposed to be, like at home or at work.
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