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159 comments:
This is not the right question. The left isn't pushing that Iran is better. They are pushing that we are all the same.
Leftists cannot deal with objective facts. History has too many examples of their failure. So they have to dumb it down to equivalency.
Well let's see...how many Iranians move to the U.S. to live and how many (non-Iranian) Americans move to Iran to live?
Iran is a theocratic shithole that treats its citizens , especially women, like, well, shit.
There is no comparison.
Let's ask the Iron Sheik:
"Iran #1. USA... phooey!"
By the way that video humanizes her and makes her sympathetic.
People keep calling her crazy in the videos but I would say it seems more convicted.
I hope pornHub actually does compete with youTube. Google would not feel as free to censor their customers if their customers had other options.
She sure got called on the carpet for foolishly expecting the Google guys would honor her Free Speech without realizing they are one of the CIA's intelligence operations disguised as free Social Media. Like many Persians, who have that Mongolian Tartar look about her, she acted as a Khan when she chose to become a warrior.
The poor woman was rather eccentric, and likely had significant emotional problems besides, and this may not have been helped by transplanting her to the US as a teenager.
She seems to have been of Azeri Turkish ancestry, these are a large minority in Iran. I have met several here.
She posted videos in three languages - Persian, Turkish and English.
The family seems to have been Baha'i, not Muslim.
I wonder if she ever smiled.
Sounds like Obama. "The Greeks probably think they have an exceptional culture."
No, Barack. No, Nasim. By an metric, the United States is vastly superior to Greece, Iran and all those other holey countries.
Being killed with cotton summons up the image of her being pelted with tampons. Let he who is without blame....
Blogger Gahrie said...
Well let's see...how many Iranians move to the U.S. to live
I know lots of Iranians who moved here after 1979.
I don't of any not crazy who went the other way.
The Persian Yoko Ono.
What are the criteria?
She was trying for the Frida Kahlo eyebrows, but just couldn't make ends meet.
If she hated America so much, why didn't she move back to Iran?
How often is that question openly asked and honestly answered in Iran.
There's your answer.
She was a refugee and we don't check refugees for mental illness.
Because we're a nation of immigrants or something.
I'd just be happy if all the Iranians stayed in Iran and didn't come here.
Whether its better than the USA or not.
The crazy eyes that one has.
Consider this from a far leftist view, like Ritmo or Inga:
On the negative side:
- Iran oppresses women, gays, and children.
_ Iran isn't "Green" and relies on fossil fuels a lot.
On the plus side from the left's point of view:
- Iran oppresses Jews and Christians.
- Their government has no problems suppressing their political opponents, killing them without any semblance of justice.
- There's no freedom of speech, not really. Or of the press, or a 2nd Amendment. Pretty much nothing resembling a Bill of Rights.
- They are Muslim
- They hate America.
- They don't have Donald Trump as president.
- A true leftist also oppresses women and children (See, Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy--and as for hurting kids, ain't no one holding a candle to Planned Parenthood after all); so Iran's oppressive nature really doesn't matter.
So on balance, I would expect many of our most committed leftists to say Iran is far, far better than America. Just like they long for Cuban dictatorships and worship Stalin and Lenin and Mao.
--Vance
Was she registered to vote?
Vance- Ritmo will probably say he heard they read more books in Iran so they must be better/smarter etc.
Hot. Very hot.
Please liberals, if you think Iran, or Venezuela, or North Korea, or any of those sh*tholes are better than the USA, PLEASE MOVE THERE. Please!!!
I know lots of Iranians who moved here after 1979.
Yep, and they all became Persians overnight.
I'll have to look that up in my Funk & Wagnalls.
Achilles-
"The left isn't pushing that Iran is better. They are pushing that we are all the same."
OK, they're not pushing Iran as better. They're pushing that the US, and by implication Western Culture, are the most evil of all countries and cultures.
Because, you see, we're not all the same. For example, all of us aren't anti-semitic racists, and we don't all reflexively assume women should be subjugated - as does Iran. The left only attends to these things to bash Western Civ.
A coiled & alert rattlesnake; an inflated blow/puffer/fish; a cat with an arched spine and extended claws; a man with a boot on his head, a beach float around his waist, holding a long rifle.
Gary Larson’s famous How Nature Says, “Do Not Touch”
https://newbeautifulera.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/how-nature-says-do-not-touch-a-classic-far-side-comic/
Add Nasim’s photo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575105/Active-shooter-reported-YouTube-HQ-California.html
"I know lots of Iranians who moved here after 1979."
Some of them were enrolled in our Navy Flight School...and could never go home after the "unpleasantness".
"The family seems to have been Baha'i, not Muslim."
The Baha'is have been terribly persecuted in Iran.
We just rented an Air BnB room an older Iranian Baha'i couple and had an interesting conversation one evening. They escaped before the revolution.. Although they talked about politics, it c;learly scared them to do so.
"So on balance, I would expect many of our most committed leftists to say Iran is far, far better than America. Just like they long for Cuban dictatorships and worship Stalin and Lenin and Mao."
I expect right-wingers to say a bunch of idiotic shit like Trump does.
Blogger Drago said...
"I know lots of Iranians who moved here after 1979."
Some of them were enrolled in our Navy Flight School...and could never go home after the "unpleasantness".
One was a classmate in medical school. We got together at my birthday party in February. His story is quite interesting. He left before the Revolution and I knew some others who did but the Shah was nothing like the Ayatollahs.
This is not the right question. The left isn't pushing that Iran is better. They are pushing that we are all the same.
We are obviously not all the same. Conservatives are stupid, emotional and ignorant but crave power above all else nonetheless. Whether they're in Iran or America.
But the left is the one who said that our rights should all be equal - starting with John Locke. So that's true. The right just uses that equalization and democratization to push society back to an era when we had neither. Hamas does it and Republicans do it. Hijacking elections for their own purposes. To revert to an authoritarian, hierarchical, backward and ignorant society.
They really are freaked out by freedom.
So can I save myself the suspense and guess that pretty much all the right-wing commenters on this thread believe that the Iranian people share the backward views of their primitive government?
The Iranian people are pretty great, actually - from all appearances. Still, the fact that they're only one generation removed from the morons who brought you the ayatollah can't be a good sign.
And I can save myself the suspense of knowing you're going to be a festering asshole and this thread is now shot.
Win-win.
Depends what you want.
I'm sure the Iranian food is better in Iran.
"The Iranian people are pretty great, actually - from all appearances."
What appearances are you referring to? Many Iranians are anti-Semites. My mother was murdered by a Iranian-born, Caribbean-trained medical doctor of short stature in 2012. She would never have guessed that she'd die at the hands of the midget Muslim doctor that she spoke to briefly in the ER, but it wouldn't have surprised her either. She mistrusted doctors, and rightly so.
The Iranians are descendants of the Indo-Europeans also referred to as Aryans.
They came out of the Steppes with horses and wheeled carts and took over Europe and the middle east to northern India.
Lots of new information from ancient DNA that is now being studied.
Awwww... what a sensitive little guy you are, "Jim at."
Are all conservatives as sensitive as you? Is that what explains the way y'all lash out at the world and all its progress and insights?
Check out how sensitive this Republican was.
What appearances are you referring to?
These ones
But keep up the stereotypes and hateful generalizations based on one person. If it weren't for behaviors like that we might not have another party like the Republicans to run our country.
"Are all conservatives as sensitive as you?"
You should be repeatedly punched in the face.
"Lots of new information from ancient DNA that is now being studied."
True. The lady is obviously of mixed ancestry, being an Azeri Turk she has a certain Central Asian look, which is typical of Turkic peoples, mixed as they are into the base populations of wherever they wandered. Its all a shading into things depending on place. The modern world does however tend to fracture this ancient genetic structure even more and faster than the historical tides of wandering and conquest.
As predicted, Ritmo is here claiming that Iran is better than Americans. "The Iranian people are far better than ebul Conservatives who don't want everyone to be equal!"
Left unsaid is his definition of equal: All differences must be crushed out because it's equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity that is most important.
Why not just use a more eloquent saying, Ritmo? What you want is "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." And, of course, everything that flows from that statement.
--Vance
You should be repeatedly punched in the face.
Another sensitive one, I see.
Well, interestingly enough, lots of Trump supporters seem to be the ones getting repeatedly punched in the face, these days.
But I understand. It's all you know. Poor you. Your daddy must have kicked you in the balls repeatedly while you were "growing up."
What a shame. Imagine what you'd be capable of if you were something more than just another little hateful Nazi.
Well, probably not much so I see your point. Carry on!
Any other statements you'd like to falsely attribute to me with "scare quotes," Vance the bedbug?
You people are something else. When you're not making up fake news you're making up fake quotes.
I guess it's to alert (((your people))) to the threat, right?
Triple parentheses and fake scare quotes. That's the right wing. Very conflict-oriented, hostile creepy pervs with fertile imaginations.
A wise person once told me that when it comes to crazy, listless people, you can never overestimate the amount of time, creativity and mental energy they can and will devote to fucking up your life and anyone else's.
That explains the Republican party these days very well.
"Lots of new information from ancient DNA that is now being studied."
True.
Actually not really all that true. It's showing interesting findings in the way of human migration patterns and inheritance and paternity issues but falling far short of serving to dice us up into the phony categories of "races" that many right-wingers like Charles Murray and the white nationalists who love Trump remain so enamored of.
"But I understand. It's all you know."
You should be beaten mercilessly.
Vance has a very active imagination, he often repeats conversations that took place only in his head.
"But I understand. It's all you know."
You should be beaten mercilessly.
You getting tired of beating your own penis mercilessly, HipsterV?
Not very surprising now, is it?
"Not very surprising now, is it?"
It's surprising nobody's kicked the shit out of you.
Yeah she might have been treated quite poorly in Iran, showing such cleavage.
Dancing not allowed!
Walter, you know those boobies are fake, right? I mean really fake. She takes them off in another video.
It's surprising nobody's kicked the shit out of you.
Only to you. But that's because you're violent and ill-tempered and don't know how to deal with your problems.
It's like what afflicted the Nazis. And the Trump voters. Small people feeling big through violence, aggression and conflict.
Ah..well..then she would catch hell for that too.
I'd say she's a better American than Igna.
Maybe Hipster is in a bad mood because he got his paycheck and couldn’t find the big increase he was waiting for, or he’s just a psychopath, who knows. I always laugh when I read them call liberals violent.
(I mean during the times youtube wasn't blocked..)
That's right, Inga. How are Scalise and Rand Paul doing?
I’d say Jupiter was a white nationalist that probably uses sock puppets named Hipster Vacuum, or John Johnson of the anti Semitic rant about Jews A few days ago.
“How are Scalise and Rand Paul doing?”
How is Heather Heyer doing? Oh yes, she’s dead.
Which thread was that, Inga? I've been away from crazy right-wing red-meat troll bait here for a few days.
One way or another we'll figure these sock puppet Na - I mean, "Trump voters" out.
"Actually not really all that true. It's showing interesting findings in the way of human migration patterns and inheritance and paternity issues but falling far short of serving to dice us up into the phony categories of "races" that many right-wingers like Charles Murray and the white nationalists who love Trump remain so enamored of."
This statement is largely false.
- Murray did not in fact "dice us up", and he is not a "right winger". I recommend you read his books - and do start with "The Bell Curve", its interesting and important.
- I have been following the history via DNA since picking up Cavalli-Sforza's "History and Georgraphy of Human Genes" >20 years ago, and its just gotten more interesting since. Race is indeed a valid concept - I refer you to the new David Reich "Who We Are And How We Got Here", plus Razib Khans decades of coverage of the topic.
- The late 19th century conception of races is simplistic but largely valid. There are regions where ancestry is best described a clines (well described even by Cavalli-Sforza), but others where populations are extremely closely related and have little structure (as R Khan would put it), such as China and most of Europe. And for that matter West Africa. Race is a complex thing in India, a gradual thing through Central Asia, but entirely accurate in the 19th century sense in China or Europe or West Africa.
- The modern world has mixed races rapidly - and by that I mean since 1500AD. I am myself a product of that modern race mixing. So is my wife, and we got ourselves tested, and our genes do indeed match our known ancestry. The general geographic/linguistic/cultural mapping to genetics is still largely valid. You will find that genetics match cultural identity quite accurately, still, almost everywhere.
Yes, Inga..because Republicans=Nazis in yer head.
How is Heather Heyer doing? Oh yes, she’s dead.
Not to mention the more than a dozen MSD students and staff that they're not done trying to get their hate on against the eloquent survivors for.
I love those survivors. They raise a simple point: Which is more important to you: Access to human-hunting weaponry for everyone everywhere at all times keeping American kids from getting massacred?
That's a tough one for the right wingers. They really think that 300 million ARs in the hands of a few tens of millions American wackos are the only thing standing between them and gulags. Well, that and the government's inexplicable restraint when it comes to nuking, MOABing, flame throwing and just otherwise pummeling the hell out of these apocalyptic backwoods survivalism-training silly bastards.
Ritmo it was a few days ago and it was a list of about 20 items that demonized Jews in every way possible. I don’t know if Althouse left it up, or deleted it. I don’t recall which thread it was, maybe one of the more honest and decent Althouse commenters recalls it and where it’s located. I’d go look for it, but if she deleted it, I’d be looking forever.
Oh boy, TTR heading off into "you guys want kids being mowed down everywhere" mode.
Ref - re genetic tests -
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/04/05/our-familys-pedigree-in-23andme/
Where he posts the genetic ancestry results for his wife and kids.
Genetic testing is perfectly capable of identifying, with very good accuracy, the recent cultural background of persons according to their genes. It can detect that I am part-Filipino, and the remainder is pure "Spanish", and that my wife is half-Mexican mestiza.
Where genes so closely match known cultural origins, then "race" is a valid concept.
Its a rather more complex concept than was popularly thought a hundred years ago, but it was not wrong then either.
"Well, that and the government's inexplicable restraint when it comes to nuking, MOABing, flame throwing and just otherwise pummeling the hell out of these apocalyptic backwoods survivalism-training silly bastards."
You cannot nuke, MOAB or flame-throw your way out of a modern urban guerrilla war in your own country. If you do get into such a state, God forbid, it will be more like 10,000x Belfast in 1972.
- Murray did not in fact "dice us up", and he is not a "right winger". I recommend you read his books - and do start with "The Bell Curve", its interesting and important.
Right. He's a glibertarian. You know - the very sophists you connies rely on for your only source of intellectual/ideological nutrition.
Nah - he's a conservative. I'm pretty sure of it. Glamorizes the society and rigid structure of the 1950s. That's a conservative.
- I have been following the history via DNA since picking up Cavalli-Sforza's "History and Georgraphy of Human Genes" >20 years ago, and its just gotten more interesting since. Race is indeed a valid concept - I refer you to the new David Reich "Who We Are And How We Got Here", plus Razib Khans decades of coverage of the topic.
Or if you actually understood the work you referred you could just state the summary. Instead you pretend that Cavalli-Sforza had anything to say about "race" when he in fact did not. He and the others are interested in descent (which is interesting). Not pretending to find a clustering of relevant or irrelevant traits where they can't like you racialists always love to do.
- The late 19th century conception of races is simplistic but largely valid.
Valid for what? Phony supremacy/inferiority hierarchies? Good grief, you Nazi romanticists really are something else. Tell me one racial concept of the 19th c. that remains valid. You are nuts and a goddamn Nazi moron.
There are regions where ancestry is best described a clines (well described even by Cavalli-Sforza), but others where populations are extremely closely related and have little structure (as R Khan would put it), such as China and most of Europe.
Translate this into English. Again, you're talking about population/descent characteristics that have nothing to do with eye shapes and skin colors and how you 19th century racialists wish to associate them with the trait-based notions of supremacy/inferiority that you so love so much.
And for that matter West Africa. Race is a complex thing in India, a gradual thing through Central Asia, but entirely accurate in the 19th century sense in China or Europe or West Africa.
Duh. Because there it's impossible to deny that it's a social category. An artificial construction. You can slice and dice people up any way you want to, as long as the trait(s) you're so interested in are meaninglessly large or small enough.
- The modern world has mixed races rapidly - and by that I mean since 1500AD.
All of them called "human." We're not directing our reproduction through the strategies of cat and dog breeders, you numbskull. There is no trait that is somehow more meaningful across humanity and more prevalent in any one group than in any other. Just get over yer fuckin self already.
I am myself a product of that modern race mixing.
Personally I think a bunch of guys spooged in a bowl together and mixed it up and that you're the result. But that's just me.
So is my wife, and we got ourselves tested,
Oh boy. Next time be sure to get your heads tested.
...and our genes do indeed match our known ancestry.
Wowwie. You mean Pilipinos don't come from Greenland? You don't say. Perhaps there's luck after all for all the questionable paternity consanguineal cousin-fuckers in the south after all!
The general geographic/linguistic/cultural mapping to genetics is still largely valid.
Because people breed where they're geographically located, you dummy. How is this a revelation or in any way a validation of 19th c. racialism? It's not.
You will find that genetics match cultural identity quite accurately, still, almost everywhere.
Again, genetics as a marker of descent, not traits.
Get into the present.
You cannot nuke, MOAB or flame-throw your way out of a modern urban guerrilla war in your own country.
Which is nice since we banned Trump voters from our economically much stronger cities.
Key word being "urban".
Do everyone a favor here and when you "read," try paying attention to the actual words being used. Backwoods urban. Ok. You will turn the most straightforward anything into bizarre nonsense.
To summarize, I can see that the distinction between genotype/phenotype is lost on 9th-grade biology drop-out buwaya puti.
For anyone with a mind, a sense of curiosity, and an interest in the relevant facts, here's the interesting and real story behind what buwaya puti is trying to manipulate into a 19th c. blood and soil racialist's fantasy revival.
Highly recommended. Don't listen to puti. I don't think he even listens to himself, most of the time. You could ask him what he said a half hour ago and he wouldn't know.
" Not pretending to find a clustering of relevant or irrelevant traits "
But they do find such clusterings of traits. That's the point. That's what genetics shows.
"Valid for what? "
To describe the common ancestry of groups of humans. A person from Cameroon was similar to one from the Congo, and more similar to him in a great number of physical characteristics than either is to a man from Shanghai. A normal person in 1900 could sort a mixed crowd of people, by appearance alone, into groups that modern genetics would verify as a valid approximation of descent.
"Translate this into English."
Your reading is poor, as is your education. A cline is a gradual transition. You have a great cline of ancestry and traits through Eurasia. "Race" there is not easily distinguished. Your Kazakh, though "unmixed", is not easily defined as belonging to your 19th century categories.
And so on and so forth.
"Again, genetics as a marker of descent, not traits. "
Race is a concept that contains both. Genetic testing identifies these - traits - these are in the genes. That's the point of genes. That's why genetic testing can identify descent. Common descent means common traits. Such as appearance, just to keep things on the surface.
You will not find a person who can pass as a West African among all the natives of Hubei province. What other traits are passed on through such common descent, that are not evident in appearance? These obviously exist too, and every day new information emerges.
Is she not the spiritual daughter of Hadi Ghaemi?
"Which is nice since we banned Trump voters from our economically much stronger cities."
No you haven't. Even in CA you have these armed people in large numbers - even in San Francisco. And they can "pass". They look and sound like you, they commute downtown from the suburbs, or can get there on your freeways. And you can't block them off without enormous economic damage. And it does not take very many to cripple a city or a region. How many people ever belonged to the IRA?
Imagine a state analogous to the Irish troubles in the US. Make that thought experiment.
One of her videos offers strong support for your dislike of men in shorts.
But they do find such clusterings of traits. That's the point. That's what genetics shows.
Nope. Markers are not traits. You do not know the difference because you never took a biology or genetics course. Though you did watch a bunch Nuremberg rallies. Poor substitute, I know. Poor, poor puti buwaya. But if you wanted to learn the difference it's out there. You obviously couldn't understand what you read of Cavalli-Sforza, if you even read him directly. But his student Spencer Wells has a more comprehensive study of what he was looking at. If you're interested in facts and a more complete understanding, you could watch his video. But of course you won't.
And that's because you're a fuzzy-thinking moron who doesn't know what he's trying to say, no matter how much he likes pseudo-science like phrenology and the Josef Mengele school of genetics.
Race is a concept that contains both.
Which is why it has no use in any meaningful, academic field of study.
I see your doo-doo dive into misunderstanding the difference between "urban" and "backwoods" still hasn't cleared up. It's like a huge pimple on your face.
So a guy who doesn't know the difference between urban and backwoods, let alone trait and marker, is schooling me on "race." Hilarious.
You can't make this shit up, folks.
as I said, putty buwaya the old racialist doesn't know the difference between genotype and phenotype.
A difference that anyone who passed a standards-meeting 9th grade high school class would know.
Something kids learn about as soon as they're taught about Gregor Mendel and his peas.
Just fuck off, dummy. Why do you think your ignorance is so impressive? Just because of how persistent and emotional you are about doesn't make it intelligible.
What a child.
"Markers are not traits."
They are 'markers' because they are used as markers by people studying this subject. But nature did not put them there for the convenience of some population geneticist. Between them, these "markers", they encode your nature, your traits. Its all just bits out of those strands of DNA.
Buwaya, it is useless to interact with trolls like Ritmo and even Inga who does have an occasional sane thought.
India is very interesting genetically since the castes and other cultural barriers have created almost pure genetic data.
It is a nation of genetic bottlenecks that create a panoply of inherited diseases.
The American Indians have obstructed the data gathering with ridiculous tribal rules.
Even so, the Clovis people are not the original settlers.
Like I said, puti doesn't understand the first lesson of genetics: The difference between genotype and phenotype.
But nature did not put them there for the convenience of some population geneticist.
Yes they did. The vast majority of DNA, more than 90%, is non-coding.
You. Are. A. Moron.
But you exemplify the right-wing well. Banging out about simple shit that you still know nothing about simply to promote an ancient and unfounded superstition.
Keep it up. I hear ignorance is going places these days.
India is very interesting genetically since the castes and other cultural barriers have created almost pure genetic data.
There you go, folks. Fellow racialist Michael Kennedy also endorses the idea of some person's genetic data being "pure." I guess others' are "impure."
Weird. Wonder what that means. You don't tend to hear those terms outside of Das Dritte Reich.
Speaking of genetic bottlenecks I wonder how relatively small the island nation of Ireland that gave rise to so many "Kennedys" stands on how pure and genetically un-diseased those folks must be.
Michael Kennedy. A bottlenecked genetic mutation. Impure to the core.
Can't figure out if a small population is better (i.e. "purer") or more diseased.
The right-wing is nothing if not incredibly incoherent.
Do you imagine that there is some walled-off rural population of 100 million+ people who have armed themselves with AR-15's and their cousins?
You do not have that many hayseeds. Almost every one of these people is "urban" by any useful definition. The vast majority of the US population lives in or within easy reach, a daily commute, of a major metropolitan area. This includes most of the people you hate and fear. If any of your people decided to make war on the rest of you, they could go and be anywhere.
You can go to a SF Bay Area shooting range and find AR-class rifles being shot there, within sight of Google and Oracle and Apple. You can even rent one. You will find right-wing political radicals in San Mateo county. Or even Marin county. They could easily be your neighbors - most Americans don't really know their neighbors, especially here in these anonymous deracinated regions.
buwaya said...
They are 'markers' because they are used as markers by people studying this subject. But nature did not put them there for the convenience of some population geneticist. Between them, these "markers", they encode your nature, your traits. Its all just bits out of those strands of DNA.
The majority of markers are just noise. Variation in non-coding/non-regulatory regions is much more common than in important functional domains, for the obvious reason that it doesn't have much, or any, effect. It like a computer program in the sense that there is some core code and a lot of GUI bullshit that doesn't do much (except make the program usable by non-coders who pay for it).
Variation in non-coding/non-regulatory regions is much more common than in important functional domains, for the obvious reason that it doesn't have much, or any, effect.
You know this how ?
You are not an insane idiot like Ritmo but I wonder if you appreciate the enormous promise of this science.
Have you read Reich's book ? I recommend it. I'm doing a series of posts at Chicagoboyz where we have fewer trolls.
The point of Indian castes is that they can be genetically distinguished.
They are mini-"races".
The social-cultural identity of a caste shows up in its genes.
Brahmins are more "Aryan" anywhere in India. And etc.
China however does not have this structure. Chinese (Han) vary very little among classes or even regions, they have no castes, they have no social aristocracy. And it shows up in Chinese genetics.
Variation in non-coding/non-regulatory regions is much more common than in important functional domains, for the obvious reason that it doesn't have much, or any, effect. It like a computer program in the sense that there is some core code and a lot of GUI bullshit that doesn't do much (except make the program usable by non-coders who pay for it).
No shit. Amateur pseudo-genetics-peddling racialist puti buwaya doesn't understand one of the greatest/most-important findings in the field of the last 30 years: The ubiquitous presence of non-coding regions and how those are being used to reconstruct migration and lineage. He does not even know this. He does not know the difference between exons and introns, coding and non-coding DNA, markers and traits, phenotype and genotype. But he thinks the 19th century skin color and skull measurement dopes were onto something really special.
You can't make this shit up, folks. This is where the ignorance of the right begins and the racialist/nationalistic malevolent bullshit of the alt right white nationalists takes root.
His misunderstandings are a fucking cancer on civilization.
"Variation in non-coding/non-regulatory regions is much more common than in important functional domains, for the obvious reason that it doesn't have much, or any, effect."
You know this how ?
You are not an insane idiot like Ritmo but I wonder if you appreciate the enormous promise of this science.
OMFG.
It's a fundamental tenet of molecular biology. And about as logical as night following day.
You are stupider than a cantaloupe.
I have credentials in this stuff. You're a physician and you can't even update your tiny knowledge of basic cell biology.
BTW, Kennedy - tell us again about how great opioids are for chronic pain. You getting a lot of overdose deaths out there in AZ like in the rest of the drug war red states?
Check this out Kennedy, you fucking addled and genetically diseased island bottleneck dweller.
Now stop being afraid of encyclopedias and let us know when you figure out the definition of what a SNIP is.
Just a complete retard.
"The majority of markers are just noise."
This WAS a general assumption, once, that most of your DNA was "junk".
This is now quite controversial. Functions have been found for much junk DNA.
There is too little known about how this whole business works as yet.
Especially in the crucial business of the brain.
Maybe Kennedy Mike K can tell us about the selection pressure on the non-coding regions.
Evolution, much? When did you graduate med school... before the Scopes trial?
This is now quite controversial. Functions have been found for much junk DNA.
"Functions" that are somehow still a hell of a lot more resistant to selection pressure.
What in your mind is a SNP? An Alu repeat?
Ever hear of a pseudogene? A telomere? An intron?
Hey, you're the expert, right?
Was Gregor Mendel a famous roller derby skater?
Wow . . . the whacko is back--in full off-his-meds mode, too. You know who I mean.
2018 and Michael K appreciates the "enormous promise" of genetics/molecular biology.
Well, that's only about 40 years behind the curve. Give the guy credit.
He thinks opioids are great for chronic pain, too.
I think he is himself responsible for probably at least 32% of the great white male die-off. You could probably attribute at least a few lethal opioid overdoses to him, I'd bet.
Maybe a couple methamphetamine addictions, too.
“You know who I mean.”
Vance?
Jupiter/aka John Johnson
Oh, William Chadwick. Facts and knowledge would drive a lesser human like you crazy. We know.
He says he takes only huge doses of anti inflammatories.
Proton pump inhibitors are probably a good idea when taking huge doses of ibuprofen...just sayin’.
buwaya said...
This WAS a general assumption, once, that most of your DNA was "junk".
This is now quite controversial.
There is a clear hierarchy in terms of tolerance of mutations/markers. Most regions of the DNA are not under tight selection. This has been known for a long time. That some of these vast regions of DNA play some role is likely also to be true but it is not like coding regions or core promoters, where a single mutation can make you non-viable.
How huge a dose?
Above the max?
I could say that wouldn't surprise me. Even Linus Pauling as crazy as he was with the ascorbic acid at least knew to restrict his mega-doses to benign water-soluble vitamins. Probably Ray Kurzweil knows better also.
As for Michael K. I think he needs a brain pump inhibitor.
But it's nice to watch him get all fascinated. What's next on his list of new personal discoveries? The molecular basis of matter?
buwaya said...
Especially in the crucial business of the brain.
Now here you are onto something. Given how little we know about the genetics of brain function a certain amount humility in making pronouncements on this topic is probably an advisable approach for the foreseeable future.
“How huge a dose?
Above the max?”
I honestly don’t recall, but he did say a while back and I was shocked at how much he took. I do think it was over the max.
" Functions have been found for much junk DNA."
Yes and the recombination results in separation of segments that indicates how old it is. Most of the ancient DNA work is based on the distance between genes.
The fools may make noise but those who are serious ignore them.
Surgeons are notoriously inept with drugs. Any one of them.
I just sent away a 23 and Me DNA test that I was gifted for Christmas, I sure hope it’s not a waste of one of my kid’s money.
Buwaya please jump in.
The black irony of minorities from other countries coming here to settle among coastal liberals who do not want them to assimilate.
Inga, I did the 23 & me thing and will do the Ancestry thing. It will be interesting if they correspond well.
Well, there's one thing indubitably clear: Inga to some extent but Ritmo especially have firmly entrenched themselves into the category of "People who no one will miss if they got hit by a bus."
You both are nasty pieces of work. I am reminded of Scrooge when his future was being displayed--not a single soul had anything but joy at Scrooge's death.
By the way, Inga--I know you thought you scored a hit with that Heather Heyer reference, but you conveniently left out the fact that the driver of the car was being chased by people like you with rifles. They were boasting about it on Facebook, after all--celebrating their attempt to commit leftist violence, just like BLM and Che and Mao and every other blood soaked leftist celebrity.
I will give Ritmo credit on his "How can you imagine you'd successfully stand up to MOAB's and nukes with your AR-15?" bit. The idea does depend a bit on assuming that the people in government would have a modicum of decency and humanity and would try to avoid civilian casualties. But it is true that people like Ritmo would happily murder millions to kill one "rebel." Ritmo has abundantly demonstrated his utter lack of humanity and he would in fact love to drop a nuke on some small village to kill one target--and if 20,000 innocents died, he's not going to lose a whit of sleep. He's proud of being old school leftist, where the size of the genocide determines how great a leftist you are. Probably daydreams of passing Mao on the list of greatest leftist murderers in history. It's all about killing everyone in the way of utopia, after all.....
By the way, Ritmo--your question about happy human hunting weapons versus saving kids in school--I'd happily trade the relatively minuscule number of kids who die in school shootings for the undisputed fact that far, far more women, children, families and others use a gun to defend themselves and save their lives every year. Numbers wise, it's not even close. Your question to answer is how many raped and murdered women and children are you willing to accept to ban guns? Course, I'm pretty sure your answer is "I don't care--the more the merrier! As long as guns are seized, I'll happily accept the massive increase in crime!"
Cold hard truth: every time you post, any sane reader increasingly sees that they need a gun to defend themselves from people like you. You are the reason we have a 2nd amendment--so people like you that get power are afraid to enact their bloody dreams.
I did the 23 & me thing and will do the Ancestry thing. It will be interesting if they correspond well.
They will show genes that spell out "BOTTLENECK" on them.
"IMPURE"
Vance, quit polishing your online persona and get off the keyboard and out into the real world some more.
I don't doubt that your Blogger profile is your "best self." But that's sad. Think about what that says about you. You know. Assuming you were actually a real boy.
"any sane reader increasingly sees that they need a gun to defend themselves from people like you."
Translation: My name is Vance and I'm quite happy living in my basement. It's very comfortable. And comforting.
FYI ... Valerie Jarrett born in Iran to expatriate Communists from USA should be asked.
“ VALERIE JARRETT WAS born Nov. 14, 1956, in Shiraz, Iran, where her parents, James and Barbara Bowman, lived for six years. Her father,a doctor, was working in Iran as part of a program that sent American physicians to developing countries..”
I responded to Inga, who I still think has redeeming qualities. Ritmo, you are an angry young man with no prospects.
The subject of genetics is fascinating (as seen by Inga and Doc K's brief exchange about 23 & Me -- there is a human yearning for understanding more about who we are and what we came from).
We have four commenters here with a knowledge of genetics beyond the layman.
The conversation gets going, and then crashes like Vince Neil doing a beer run with the drummer of Hanoi Rocks.
Just when I thought I was going to learn something.
Michael K, buyawa, ARM, Toothless: gentlemen, let's try something.
Here's the question:
What is a common misunderstanding the general public has about genetics?
Leave politics out of it. Consider 'general public' as the cross-section of people waiting in a jury-duty pool. You are explaining your point to them so they can understand.
Is it possible to give an answer to the question without throwing shade on another's response?
Or is it always going to kill the drummer?
The Germans have a word for this.
OK. I will bite. People don't understand the inevitability of somatic mutations, and thus of cancer. Cancer is a indissolvable property of the system as it has evolved, dependent on the somatic mutation rate. Even if you did everything 'right' you would still have a unfortunately high chance of getting cancer if you live long enough.
She preferred dying in the USA to living in Iran. I concur.
ARM,
What do you think about services like 23 and Me when it comes to the health portion of the testing? Do you think it’s reliable? They let you know if you have variants for several conditions.
This article by Matt Ridley makes the point more comprehensively.
ARM: sincerely, thank you.
I did have to Google 'somatic', but once I got the gist of that what you wrote makes sense.
Do our genes atrophy or degrade as we age, like other parts of the body, or is that also considered mutation?
The Germans have a worrd for this.
Germans, I suggest you look at Chicagoboyz where we will have a discussion without the angry trolls.
ARM , I don't include you. Away from politics, you seem rational.
I am nearly finished with Reich's book. And I recommend "The 10,000 Year Explosion" as an introduction.
I responded to Inga, who I still think has redeeming qualities. Ritmo, you are an angry young man with no prospects.
You can't control her. But you KNOW you can't control me.
And it burns a hole in your ass like a radioactive hemorrhoid.
Inga said...
What do you think about services like 23 and Me
I don't know much about it, so I looked it up. Apparently it has become the equivalent of Facebook for the genome (described here).
Inga said...
"What do you think about services like 23 and Me when it comes to the health portion of the testing? Do you think it’s reliable? They let you know if you have variants for several conditions."
That's probably a big reason why I don't pursue such a service.
I realize that at the Roulette Table of Life the House always wins at the end.
And sometimes I don't want to know the odds.
Because I'm mostly at the table for the free drinks.
The Germans have a word for this.
What is a common misunderstanding the general public has about genetics?
I think that as with most things, they don't even know what it is.
I think there is however a bit of a market for lineage/heritage/descent companies like the ones mentioned here, and people who want to use that to verify what countries they have ancestors in that they might have known about before or not.
I think that people who read Smithsonian or National Geographic find the ancient human migration patterns interesting. And then there is the work on extra-species mating events and descent. Like those with the Neanderthals that many of us descend partially from and that commenters like Michael K are so similar to.
Then there are the traditional blood and soil nationalists. They confuse nationhood with genetics and to the extent that they are about genetics at all, it's a superficial interest that they erroneously presume will reinforce the same misguided 19th c. instincts that buwaya has expressed so much interest in.
But molecular biology is complex and so I think that for the average person their interest in that or the nearly as complex, related field of molecular genetics is about as interesting as string theory. i.e. not much at all.
But those who understand how it can be used to trace descent are interested in that. Which is fine and good and as it should be.
“Because I'm mostly at the table for the free drinks.
The Germans have a word for this.”
Prost.
"And I recommend "The 10,000 Year Explosion" as an introduction."
Thank you -- I think I'll give it a try.
I guess to answer your question more properly the misunderstanding we see most, the most persistent one, is that repeated by buwaya: A confusion between genotype and phenotype. We're learning a lot about markers and these have almost nothing to do with physical traits. Most of the DNA doesn't code so it accumulates the mutations we can use as markers to trace descent patterns. But most people don't understand that that's where its primary utility is nowadays and persist with seeing anything having to do with genetics with everything to do with mental or physical traits, and that's a misnomer.
Researching traits is necessary and interesting but I'm glad that pop sci gets to take this huge detour right now in illustrating migration patterns and common descent and hopefully that will be the necessary elixir to rid people of their particularisms and other problematic attachments and see humanity as a coherent whole, a single tribe, once again - before we then revert to making use of gene editing techniques like CRISPR and using technology to guide our DNA toward whatever the heck we'll want to do next with it.
But who knows, really?
The Germans Have A Word For That. said...
Do our genes atrophy or degrade as we age
It is statistical. Somatic tissues accumulate mutations over time. Ridley makes this point better than I can.
"The Johns Hopkins researchers found that tissues that replicate their stem cells most run the highest risk of cancer: basal skin cells do ten trillion cell divisions in a lifetime and have a million times more cancer risk than pelvic bone cells which do about a million cell divisions. Random DNA copying mistakes during cell division are “the major contributors to cancer overall, often more important than either hereditary or external environmental factors”, say the US researchers."
There are other aspects to aging but this is the primary contributor to cancers.
Thanks ARM And Ritmo, who obviously have a good understanding of genetics and molecular biology. Any fool who ever calls you guys unintelligent is a moron! 😃
Ritmo and ARM,
What do you think about the nutraceuticals and fasting that are so popular now that push the notion that they can delay aging by promoting autophagy?
Thank you.
MK's just jealous.
Genes don't "degrade" over time because a "gene" is a unit of inheritance or something to code a protein. All DNA mutates over time, but the DNA still stays DNA. ARM is right that this leads to cancer and probably also senescence and the less precise phenomenon known as aging. Much research nowadays into that focuses on telomeres or the ends of the chromosomes which get shorter with each replication before the next cycle leads into loss of actual tracts of material DNA that does have a use.
I saw something pretty interesting lately on fasting and it seems that there's something to it. It works in animals and the data suggest that longevity and survival and lifespans actually increased during the Great Depression presumably due to the lack of food. I'm sure there's a YouTube clip on a guy who's trying out several of their methods. Apparently it doesn't matter as much what you eat as it does how little of it you do eat. Not much fun but I guess it depends how long you want to live. Or how much of a difference it really makes.
Toothless: if you had left out the Michael K and buwaya jibes that would've been an excellent comment.
But that was rather tame, as things go, so thank you.
Regarding "But molecular biology is complex and so I think that for the average person their interest in that or the nearly as complex, related field of molecular genetics is about as interesting as string theory. i.e. not much at all."
I think this is correct, but I also think genetics are playing a larger role in our lives, and will follow the pattern of technology: a few generations ago only a few understood even the most rudimentary aspects about a computer, and now most people use the technology as second-nature, but don't understand what is happening under the hood (how a Google or Facebook can scrape your identity, for example).
So I expect people will become more facile with genetics through its advancements, but won't really understand the mechanics.
Which will enable it (and them) to be easily exploited.
The Germans have a word for this.
“I saw something pretty interesting lately on fasting and it seems that there's something to it. It works in animals and the data suggest that longevity and survival and lifespans actually increased during the Great Depression presumably due to the lack of food.”
Good to hear. I’m doing something called OMAD. One meal a day. I eat whatever I want within reason within a two hour window and fast for 22 hours a day. I’ve been doing this since July and I feel great! Lost 45 pounds too!
Ah. Toothless, I see the second paragraph of your 9:56 comment, and it expresses what I was trying to articulate at 10:10.
And your 10:08 comment is an excellent comment.
I like reading about things you find interesting, and when it comes without dissections of personalities I get a smile on my face.
Regarding the Depression: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Trite, yes, but our current life of ease seems to be leading to fat people on scooters dying at age 50.
Where in the old days to die at fifty meant you worked in a coal mine or just drank too much.
The Germans have a word for this.
If this post keeps going in its current direction Althouse will have a surprise in the morning: a late-night thread that degenerated into civility.
The Germans have a word for this.
Thanks Germans.
Nowadays astute, interested physicians are taught to distinguish between diseases of affluence, which are growing and obviously of the opposite cause to the old diseases of poverty of yesteryear.
The Germans have a word for this.”
Yes it’s called Gemütlichkeit.
Well, if I may, Germans - I think a number of people, under the guise of anti-elitism, confuse a hatred of knowledge or educated opinion with a hatred of information.
Luckily you seem to be immune to that affliction and hence can happily help facilitate a discussion that is encouraged to be informative without indulging some common, less than sociable insecurities certain people might have pertaining to whether people they don't like are allowed to seem - or even be - knowledgeable enough to have something worth saying.
It's political... I think.
"It's political... I think."
Unfortunately, politics now is the motor oil in the cake.
And we as a society are rich in cake. More cake than any previous society.
But every bite of cake has a bit of motor oil in it.
Writing this, I looked up the 'motor oil in the cake' expression -- it was something I remembered hearing a long time ago, and was now curious of origin.
And I couldn't find a trace of the expression in several cursory Google searches.
I alway assumed it was a common saying from the past in some region or another, but maybe I just heard it from a guy who didn't like the idea of motor oil in his cake.
Regarding "Luckily you seem to be immune to that affliction": I don't think I'm immune. My buttons can get pushed. But I really do try to make a conscious effort to be less of an asshole than I was in my past. I was pretty good at being an asshole, and it is tough to give up something you're good at.
I am also good at drinking alcohol, but I'm not even going to pretend to give that up.
The Germans have a word for this.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
That's a tough one for the right wingers. They really think that 300 million ARs in the hands of a few tens of millions American wackos are the only thing standing between them and gulags.
"Will We Stop Trump Before It’s Too Late?"
" On April 28, 1945 — 73 years ago — Italians hung the corpse of their former dictator Benito Mussolini upside down next to a gas station in Milan..."
Given the 30 or so examples from history where people on the left seized power and killed large numbers of their political enemies and the current leftist rhetoric and actions it is pretty clear the only thing holding you back is the fact you would get wiped out.
Really you violent little shitheads should put up or shut up. You have your little fun attacking us in your little blue conclaves in places where you don't allow us to be armed. Fine.
You guys really need to carry off your coup against Trump. Get it over with. Do it.
It will be fun watching you all squeal as your heroes start going to jail starting with Comey and McCabe. It will be nice hearing Obama say "No Comment."
She was apparently jobless and living with her grandmother, and was 38 years old at the time of her death. When people from Sharia dominated societies come here they are frequently confused and frightened by all the freedom they find in the West.
She arrived in the USA at age 17. There are a host of mental disorders that seem to pop up in the late teens or early twenties – schizophrenia being one of them. This, along with the culture-confusion mentioned above, is my guess as an explanation for this shooter.
I rented a room out of school and there was a Baha’i guy there from Iran. Yadi was really just off the boat, and I don’t think very well-educated. Baha’i means pretty much persecuted back in Iran, from what I gathered.
My Armenian sister-in-law tells tales of Iranians crossing-over to buy cigarettes and booze, and the Iranian girls usually going overboard with the make-up and short skirts.
Who wound the vinyl pervert up tonight? His mom overcook a batch of meth? It's like reading the editorial staff of 'The Worker' on crack.
Giving an audience to these misfits and kooks, even posthumously, is why we have them in the first place. A "free" press (as in unaccountable and for profit) may be one of those notions from a long time ago that seemed to make sense in the 1770's but that is positively dangerous in today's media drenched society. It might be time to rethink if we want to allow weaponized, greedy, amoral corporations, and soul sick individual actors to define our cultural reality for us, and who are strictly in pursuit of eyeballs, clicks, and page views. There's no "market place for ideas" today, it's all just a shouting match between howling mobs punctuated by deranged acts of violence. The founders wish for a free press meant that persons were free to criticize public spending on a new bridge somewhere or Jefferson's veto of the Navy Act, not this anything goes madness we have now.
Achilles = Empty head + steroid injections for excess bravado + mescaline for excess paranoia
There's nothing wrong with that guy that a good castration and confinement away from his psychopharmacological playthings in a 6' x 10' cell wouldn't solve.
It'd save everyone else from witnessing his constant, pathetic attempts to rape the American mind, too.
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Weird. I wrote: "Wow . . . the whacko is back--in full off-his-meds mode, too. You know who I mean."
And the Toothless State-fellator responds: "Oh, William Chadwick. Facts and knowledge would drive a lesser human like you crazy. We know."
Now why would Toothless assume my comment was about him? If there's anyone whose posts reflect facts and knowledge and sanity, it's old Toothless.
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