Madison Police Officer Matt Magolan, who provides active-shooter prevention training to outside groups including businesses, civic groups and churches, said it was a good idea for religious leaders to prioritize security needs at their buildings, even if it feels uncomfortable.
“There’s always the trade-off: security vs. free access,” he said. “Churches want to be accessible to everyone, and unfortunately it makes them an easy target.”
November 12, 2017
"Madison-area churches add armed guards, put members on alert after Texas mass shooting."
The Wisconsin State Journal reports.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
51 comments:
Let's just say I'm a Texican with LTC/CHL permit of many many years and our church does NOT have a 30.06 sign (no LTC/CHL people can carry if the sign is up) and thus I pack. Always have.
We ain't worried at our church.
Come in peace or leave in pieces.
I packed at mass last night. But really, it would be near impossible to get off a shot from the pews in these situations without hitting a parishioner or drawing fire first.
I'm sure our rector wouldn't like it [Episcopalian] but I'm certain there are a number of ushers at our church who come armed every week. I'm also certain they've had discreet discussions about what Father John doesn't know won't distress him.
I don't mind people legal carrying on other people's properties. It is sad we've reached the point they feel that's needed, but I'm pretty sure given that shootings have now occurred for political and personal reasons at houses of worship, it is perfectly rational to think: "Well, maybe we should stop being soft targets."
Very wise decision.
The murders of the priest in France last year are still not identified or in custody. I doubt they are even being sought.
France has surrendered.
Their god is useless.
But not statisticians. They didn't add any of those.
Even an insurance adjustor would offer more comfort.
Why should faithful Christians worry about this?
"Feranindianide said...
Their god is useless."
"Sebastian said...
Why should faithful Christians worry about this?"
The left is full of moronic dregs.
"The left is full of moronic dregs." Hey, who ya callin' left? Them's fighting words.
One commonality among attacks is a large contained defenseless group of people. The possibility of armed guards at churches may discourage some attackers from attacking churches. But, they will then move to the next soft target.
Feranindianide said...
Their god is useless."
Bad things sometimes happen to believers.
Gee, no religious person has ever noticed that or thought about it or written about it until atheists brought it to our attention.
You might not know this, but Christian martyrs became martyrs because bad things happened to them (as compared to Islamic martyrs who cause bad things to happen to others). Christians have known for a pretty long time that belief does not mean everything in life is going to be cotton candy and rainbows.
But I'm sure those stricken people in Sutherland sure appreciated all those tweets from atheist fundies mocking their faith even while they were struggling to cope with slaughter. That was kind and helpful and displayed how morally superior atheists are to dumb Christians.
Yes. Diogenes, that's right. A shooting at a Colorado Wal-mart last week was national news. A shooting with the same death toll (three dead, one wounded, IIRC) in Woodburn, OR (maybe ten miles north of us) was barely local news. My guesses are that this was (1) because Wal-mart!; and (2) our shooting was on a pot farm, so it doesn't really count. Neither justification actually makes any sense, but they're all I've got.
Carol said..."I packed at mass last night. But really, it would be near impossible to get off a shot from the pews in these situations without hitting a parishioner or drawing fire first. "
In Colorado a nutjob came into a church to shoot them up. Three of the church attendants had guns. They shot him dead.
The parishioners will be ducking. Just and up and deliver if need be.
"I would not shoot you for the world, my friend, but you're standing where I am about to fire."
Well, as Luke tells us, let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one
Guns er bad. Mkay.
Just thought I'd save our resident Mr. Macky the trouble.
"Blogger Sebastian said...
Why should faithful Christians worry about this?"
If by that you mean that faithful Christians shouldn't fear death because they'll go to Heaven, do keep in mind that very often more people are wounded than killed in mass shootings. Some wounds are life altering, such as permanent brain damage or paralysis. When I was a paratrooper, I didn't fear desth naerly as much as I feared getting permanently messed up.
One of my coworkers is an Army Reservist. He's extremely knowledgeable and ecperienced with firearms and has a concealed carry permit. He was quietly asked by his pastor to bring a gun to church services. These attacks on churches, while very rare, do happen. I used to live within sight of a megachurch (New Life Church) in Colorado Springs that was attacked several years ago. Some guy drove down from Denver and killed several people before being confronted by an armed female security guard. When she returned fire, he stopped shooting others, retreated, and killed himself.
Did anyone besides me notice how often a mass shooter quits shooting and tries to haul ass out of there and/or kills self just as soon as someone returns fire??? I don’t know that you have to get off an accurate shot, as much as you need to make the bastard aware that he’s being shot at, too.
Even the Unitarians carry where I live.
I recall the Unitarian Universalist Church shooting in 2008. One of the first of these church shootings, very shocking at the time. Now it seems expected. Christians, atheists, believers of all types, anyone who is gathering in large groups are targets for various reasons. Semi automatic weapons are easy to get and there are plenty of mentally disturbed people who seem to have them.
“KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- A man accused of fatally shooting two adults and wounding seven others at a Knoxville church told police the church's liberal teachings prompted him to attack, according to court papers.
Jim Adkisson said liberals should be killed because they're ruining the nation, according to an affidavit.
Jim David Adkisson told investigators all liberals should be killed and admitted he shot people Sunday morning at Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, according to a search warrant affidavit obtained by CNN affiliate WBIR.
Also, a four-page letter police found in Adkisson's vehicle indicated he was motivated by frustration over being unable to obtain a job, authorities said Monday.
Police said Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tennessee, walked into the church's sanctuary during a children's musical performance and fired a shotgun before being overpowered by congregants and arrested. Adkisson -- who police said wasn't a member of the church -- has been charged with one count of first-degree murder.
According to the affidavit requesting to search Adkisson's home, the suspect told investigators liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country. Adkisson also blamed Democrats for the country's decline, according to the affidavit.”
I bet the Mormons would be a particularly hard target. Years on the fringes and a pioneer-past patriarchy. They'd have no turn-the-other-cheek qualms.
I live in CO, and at one time lived in Aurora, CO. I will not go to a certain movie chain because they bar legal gun carry.
The religionists least likely to die on the Sabbath are probably Orthodox Jews. They live near their synagogue and walk instead of drive.
And for our opening hymn:
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free ...
One commonality among attacks is a large contained defenseless group of people.
Another is that they are incredibly rare events. Parishioners are almost as likely to be killed by lightning if they skip church to go golfing.* An act of God.
Until life insurance companies treat going to church like scuba diving -- or owning a gun -- I'm not buying it.
*Between 1 and 2 thousand U.S. residents have been killed or injured in mass shootings each of the last two years using a ridiculously broad definition. About 500 U.S. residents are struck by lightening each year. Chance of either one happening to you. Infinitesimal.
Inga finds a right wing shooter but comment on what happened.
fired a shotgun before being overpowered by congregants and arrested.
Gee, ya think ?
Why should faithful Christians worry about this?
________________________
Pope Francis earlier today (Nov. 12, 2017) --
What does Jesus want to teach us with this parable [about the wise virgins and the foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13)]? He reminds us that we must be ready for our encounter with Him. Jesus often exhorts in the Gospel to watch and He does so also at the end of this story: “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour” (v. 13). However, with this parable, He tells us that to watch doesn’t mean only not to sleep, but to be ready. . . . some were ready and others not. Here, therefore, is the meaning of being wise and prudent: it’s about not waiting for the last moment of our life to collaborate with God’s grace, but to do so already from now on. It would be good to think a bit: one day will be the last. If it were today, how prepared am I? But I must do this and that … One must be prepared as if it were the last day: this does one good. . . . If we are vigilant and we seek to do good, with gestures of love, of sharing, of service to our neighbour in difficulty, we can remain at peace while we await the coming of the bridegroom: the Lord can come at any moment, and even the sleep of death doesn’t scare us, because we have the reserve of oil, accumulated with the good works of every day. Faith inspires charity and charity guards faith."
The problem, Sebastian, is that being human, people know that they are sometimes among the foolish ones.
Another thing is that while people do very much want to go to heaven, they also would rather it not be right this second. Built within us also is a self-preservation mode that naturally seeks to avoid death.
What is more, aside from death itself, dying isn't all that much fun. And seeing your loved ones dying isn't fun, nor is seeing their heads burst open from a gunshot.
So how about you cut them some slack, Sebastian?
Feranindianide said...
Their god is useless.
A disease.
Another is that they are incredibly rare events.
So what, Henry? Until recently, foreign attacks on American soil were ALSO incredibly rare. The Black Plague was incredibly rare for a few hundred years--until 2 years ago. Are you telling us that deaths from "rare" events are less deadly, Henry?
One's chances of dying in a mass shooting are a thousand times less than dying in an auto accident, yet people hop right in their cars without a second thought.
Are you telling us that deaths from "rare" events are less deadly, Henry?
I think I was perfectly clear. Deaths from rare events are less likely.
The police in Madison are armed.
It's interesting that the churches have concluded that that having an armed police force is not enough protection.
Might they some day also discern that individuals should enjoy the same rights of protection as groups?
"Why should faithful Christians worry about this?"
If you have to ask...
Father Flanigan strode into the local pub on Saturday night. He called out, "All who wish to enter the gates of heaven, stand with me on this side of the pub".
Eventually every man had joined the good Father except one.
"Now Jimmy O'Neal", asked the priest, "Don't you want to go to heaven when you die?"
"Yeah, sure, Padre", responded Jimmy. "I do indeed. But I thought you meant tonight".
"I think I was perfectly clear. Deaths from rare events are less likely."
Tell that to the dinosaurs.
Slightly off topic, but I was in Vegas last week, and the increase in security people wandering around was clearly evident from two years ago. I'm guessing, but nearly twofold.
Tell that to the dinosaurs.
Sooner or later we all die of something.
Deaths from rare events are less likely.
Interesting. This gun-grabber argument bears a striking resemblance to one of the Islamic terrorism apologists’ arguments, which is: Odds are, no individual is “likely” to be affected and/or murdered by Islamic terrorism. Reading from the same handbook?
"being human, people know that they are sometimes among the foolish ones.
Another thing is that while people do very much want to go to heaven, they also would rather it not be right this second. Built within us also is a self-preservation mode that naturally seeks to avoid death.
What is more, aside from death itself, dying isn't all that much fun. And seeing your loved ones dying isn't fun, nor is seeing their heads burst open from a gunshot.
So how about you cut them some slack, Sebastian?"
Happy to. But these points about self-preservation, no fun, etc. hardly accord with sound Christian theology. The Pope appears to be on the theological side I meant to invoke.
Perhaps its time to discuss the etymology of hysteria.
Anyone remember "going postal"? Same hysteria.
Imagine the dinosaurs buying term life insurance at the beginning of the Mesozoic era.
"You sure we need insurance against extinction?"
"You bet. You don't want to end up like the pareiasaurs!"
"Okay, so what will it cost us?"
"Dollar a year. Pay up front, and it's only $186 Million."
PLENTY OF ATTENTIVE, FIT LOOKING GENTLEMEN IN LONGISH COATS FOUND AT SYNAGOGUES HEREABOUTS. VERY PROFESSIONAL APPEARANCE. TAKE THE CLUE FOLKS.
Welcome to the club. Synagogues in Italy and France have had heavily armed guards in front for decades now. Many if not most synagogues in US have armed guards during the high holy days.
For the past 70 years the United States has maintained a force of ready nuclear weapons even though for most of the time the probability of a nuclear war was zero. Does that mean it was/is irrational to deploy our nuclear forces?
Like the outbreak of nuclear war, mass shootings are rare events that cannot be predicted other than in the actuarial sense. Such predictions are meaningless unless you can name time and place. Therefore, it is no more irrational to have armed parishioners in church than it is to have an alert force of nuclear weapons.
Whether they express it or not most people who carry a firearm on a daily basis are not doing so because they expect to be attacked. They do it because such an attack, no matter how small the probability, is unpredictable. If I knew in advance that I would be attacked I just wouldn't go there. Would you?
Their God set up a fitness function ("Nature"), described a moral philosophy (i.e. religion), and left them to their own devices. One of which was to instill a robust pro-life sentiment and a right to self-defense.
Anyway, in the interest of peaceful reconciliation among the [numerical/individual] diversity of humanity, there are rights and responsibilities.
I packed at mass last night. But really, it would be near impossible to get off a shot from the pews in these situations without hitting a parishioner or drawing fire first.
I'll bet, especially if you're both Catholic and trained with your weapon.
You were probably instructed to always aim for the center of mass.
As the chair of the deacon board of a small church, I actually do have to worry about the safety of our parishoners. I wish I didn't, but I do feel obligated to protect them. And I'm not exactly happy that I'm going to have to start wearing a coat and tie to church every Sunday for the first time in 20 years just to cover up my shoulder harness.
Post a Comment