Althouse: At UW-Madison’s Department of Anesthesiology, "[f]emale residents, or doctors-in-training, are told 'don’t rock the boat,' pregnant women are humiliated..."

November 12, 2017

At UW-Madison’s Department of Anesthesiology, "[f]emale residents, or doctors-in-training, are told 'don’t rock the boat,' pregnant women are humiliated..."

"... and anesthesiologists at American Family Children’s Hospital — most of them female — are 'infantilized' when others call it 'the crying hospital' or 'candyland,' the report says. Women said men suggested they lack a full commitment to medicine because of family priorities, and cost the department more.... The report came as Dr. Mark Schroeder, a longtime anesthesiologist at UW Health, resigned in August and surrendered his license in September after a behavior complaint. Schroeder 'likes to be at the "bottom of the bed" and "see parts of patients that he does not need to see,"' according to a summary of the complaint.... The report, based on more than 130 interviews with doctors, residents, nurse anesthetists, anesthesiologist assistants and other staff, depicts a workplace where 'many are frustrated, angry and disillusioned.'"

From the Wisconsin State Journal, "UW anesthesiology department challenging for women, report says."

44 comments:

Michael K said...: Physician recruitment firms report that women physicians work about 25% less than male physicians, on average.

This is significant in that modern medical students, most of whom assume they will work on salary, tend to work less than the older generation who tended to be small business owners.

The specialties of Anesthesia and Emergency Medicine, the latter did not exist until about 1975, are popular because they involves shift work. Many students are now going into a new specialty called "Trauma Surgery," which I did for years but not as a separate specialty, because it also involves shift work.; 11/12/17, 9:20 AM
MadisonMan said...: As if this hasn't been affecting the men in the program too. But they cope with it in a different manner, I suppose.

Hazing has a bad effect on all -- and I'm glad to see the light being shone on this. How nice that the Former Dept Head can now enjoy his retirement fund.; 11/12/17, 9:20 AM
Fernandinande said...: anesthesiologists at American Family Children’s Hospital — most of them female — are 'infantilized' when others call it 'the crying hospital' or 'candyland,'

They're infantilized by claiming to be infantilized.

"Because of the large public investment in medical education, it is important to understand why women physicians work significantly less than men physicians.
...
Contrary to conventional wisdom, shorter work weeks for women physicians are not the result of child care responsibilities. Nor would higher earnings encourage women physicians to work longer hours. Instead, we found significant work reductions among married women physicians (but not men), implying subordination of careers by women where combined family incomes are high."

I think that might mean "lazy".; 11/12/17, 9:23 AM
Gahrie said...: What do you expect from an institution that allows 20% of the women going to college there to be raped?; 11/12/17, 9:23 AM
Wince said...: Schroeder 'likes to be at the "bottom of the bed" and "see parts of patients that he does not need to see,"' according to a summary of the complaint...

"There's always the Bill Cosby School of Anesthesia."; 11/12/17, 9:27 AM
JAORE said...: "... a workplace where 'many are frustrated, angry and disillusioned.'"

In other words just like any other job.; 11/12/17, 9:48 AM
Michael K said...: The results noted in that link above, were the reason why admissions committees discriminated against women in past years. They believed a physician shortage existed and that women would tend to work less after they married.

Another factor is that 60% of medical students are now women and the students tend to marry each other. That produces double incomes and less pressure financially. Some of those women will work more after their children are grown but not all.

The physician shortage grows because of the aging population and the fact that salary does not motivate like accounts payable does.

All physicians work less now except the few remaining high achievers and the older generation who are still working.; 11/12/17, 9:49 AM
Sydney said...: How could an anesthesiologist do his job from “the bottom of the bed?” Not possible to monitor the patient’s airway or facial responses from there. Did surgeons put up with that?; 11/12/17, 10:15 AM
Michael K said...: "How could an anesthesiologist do his job from “the bottom of the bed?”

I wondered about that, too.

Thee was an anesthesia scandal in Sacramento some years ago (about 30) where the guy was jerking off in patients
mouths. He belonged in Hollywood but it was all at the head of the table.; 11/12/17, 10:19 AM
Jupiter said...: Oh, so now we're going to do the doctors?; 11/12/17, 10:38 AM
gspencer said...: Would-be victims in search of a cause.; 11/12/17, 10:40 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: My boyfriend, an anesthesiologist, has not mentioned any gender issues pertaining to his department. But then he wouldn't, would he? He's a white man and decidedly not woke. He thinks the female and male doctors in his group generally get along pretty well. They are clearly not as advanced and progressive as the anesthesiologists in Madison.; 11/12/17, 10:53 AM
Michael K said...: I had a female nurse anesthetist when I had surgery 25 years ago. I had a female cardiologist do a cardiac cath and angiogram on me 6 years ago. I don't know what the big deal is.

The whining from UW sounds like something else is at work.

A friend of mine was chief of Surgery at a UC medical school 20 years ago and he had an incompetent black female Surgery resident he wanted to fire. Every other Surgery chair in the UC system told him there was no way he could fire her without a lawsuit he would lose.

He fired her and got away with it. That, of course, was 20 years ago. I doubt he could do it now.; 11/12/17, 11:21 AM
Pinandpuller said...: Rand Paul's neighbor has a little too much time on his hands.; 11/12/17, 11:23 AM
Pinandpuller said...: Cliff Huxtable was an OB but he dabbled in twilight sedation.; 11/12/17, 11:26 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: The Amateur Anesthesiologist...

I consider myself an Amateur Anesthesiologist. I haven't gone to Med School or anything -- in fact, I dropped out of college -- but I do know how to deliver Roofies to unsuspecting women in bars at night...

Now, I'm a reasonably attractive guy: I don't need to give girls Roofies just so I can have sex with them. But I do find that giving them Roofies let's me able to do anal...

Of course, when the girl wakes up there can be a problem: her ass hurts, and she probably makes a good guess why. So I leave a sweet note before I leave to manage the situation...

"Thank you for the wonderful evening! I really enjoyed our conversation -- it is truly a delight to talk with someone so smart! And I thought it was very special that you wanted to do anal -- what a night!"

Yours,
Fred.

First of all: my name is not Fred.

Second: she probably can't remember much of the evening, so now she wonders 'did I ask him for anal? That's really not me, but I WAS pretty drunk...'

So she is left feeling in charge of the previous night's events. This is better for her. Maybe she thinks she made a bad choice, but she'll get over it. Worse things can happen when you are sleeping: heart attacks, strokes, death, murder...

Speaking of heart attacks, besides being an Amateur Anesthesiologist I also know CPR. So she was safe with me -- safer than being alone, really...

When I was a child I really did want to be a doctor, but didn't have it in me with all the studying and classes and stuff: I have made peace with that. It has taken awhile, but I have learned to Live In The Moment...

I am Laslo.; 11/12/17, 11:30 AM
John henry said...: Great lazloish pickup line :

"Does this handkerchief smell like chloroform too you?"

John Henry; 11/12/17, 12:21 PM
Achilles said...: Sounds like we will be needing robot doctors sooner rather than later.; 11/12/17, 12:24 PM
Emil Blatz said...: "see parts of patients that he does not need to see,"

So he likes bunions, so what? Different strokes fo' different folks.; 11/12/17, 12:26 PM
Michael K said...: On comment on the Cosby thing.

In that era, when Quaaludes were being abused, it was common for BOTH parties to take one to enhance the sexual experience.

It was not the same as rohypnol.

I think he took advantage of young actresses trying to use him to help their careers.

He got outed before all these creepier guys because he made the mistake of talking about the black family.; 11/12/17, 12:31 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Sounds like it was a toxic work environment. I’m glad to hear that there were unintimidated women who stepped forward to rectify it. There’s going to be a new work environment in medicine, the male docs who can’t accept it will have problems themselves, it seems. That’s good news, hopefully they’ll all decide to be the professionals they were trained to be.; 11/12/17, 12:37 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Unknown said...
Sounds like it was a toxic work environment"

Such sexism in progressive Madison. Tsk, tsk.; 11/12/17, 12:55 PM
Hagar said...: And then there was us, the patients; but do we really count?
Because progress and diversity!; 11/12/17, 1:02 PM
Hagar said...: I listen to Prime Minister's Questions in the British Parliament, whose time is often taken up by NHS matters almost 70 years later, but the patients are rarely mentioned.; 11/12/17, 1:24 PM
SDaly said...: As soon as women started coming into medicine in force, the training was changed to make it easier and less burdensome, under the guise of patient safety. Residents now work far fewer hours, and by the end of their training, have a significantly lower amount of training that they used to. Studies have shown, though, that the rationale for decreasing residents' training hours - patient safety of those being treated by allegedly over-tired residents - was bogus and that the claimed benefit to patients never materialized.

Also, with the decreased workload, more women residents are now opting to have children during residency, thereby further interrupting training. Women are also far more likely to work part time or to drop out of the profession entirely, when they have children.; 11/12/17, 1:29 PM
Michael K said...: "There’s going to be a new work environment in medicine,"

There sure is and it will follow the usual rules of socialism. "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

The VA is such an inspirational model.; 11/12/17, 1:29 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: The Amateur Anesthesiologist...

When I was in high school my mother was having problems with my behavior. I was a bit wild, I admit it, but I figured I was just a teenager. Anyway, I pushed a girl against her locker and rubbed her breasts for a moment. I didn't think it was any big deal, but the Principal suspended me and told my mother I needed professional help. So my mother took me to a psychiatrist and it turns out I wasn't a teenager, I was a sociopath...

It's been years since then, and I'm still not sure what it really means to me. I guess it's bad, but I don't know what the alternative is, so it is just me. Not much I can do about that. And, frankly, I don't feel the need to do anything about that in the first place...

People get mad at some of the things I do, but, to me, they just look silly when they do that. They act like ants. Ants, walking in a row. Ants get stepped on; it happens. I guess I'm supposed to think people are more important than ants, but if they act that way, what's the difference, really...?

Some people like me, some people don't like me. I'm the same guy, so it seems that if there is a problem, the problem is outside of me, which is why I don't even bother with the psychiatrist's medications anymore: they just made me fat and slow, like everyone else. Maybe most people are ants, and I'm a spider. I'm a spider, and I'm fast. That could make sense...

What was I talking about? Oh yeah: giving Roofies to girls at bars. My understanding is that people drink to lose their inhibitions. I don't have any inhibitions, so the whole idea seems stupid to me. Just stop pretending. People, always pretending to be something else, because they just can't handle who they truly are: it's pathetic...

But these girls, getting drunk to have a good time; it is a delusion. They are deluding themselves into thinking that they are something more than interchangeable meat. You work in a box. You go to school in a box. You eat in a box. You sleep in a box. Meat. Or -- if you prefer -- there are ants to be crushed and flies to be eaten. There are many ways to describe how the world works, but you wouldn't listen, anyway. You are not above me, you are in front of me, in my way. But never for long...

I am Laslo.; 11/12/17, 1:38 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “And then there was us, the patients; but do we really count?
Because progress and diversity!”

You actually want an anesthesiologist who is wandering to the foot of the gurney to look at your crotch, while he should be monitoring your breathing and the drugs that are going into your veins? No progress, let’s go back to that bad old days, huh?; 11/12/17, 1:45 PM
Michael K said...: Inga no anthesthesiologist is anywhere but the head of the bed unless they are doing a head case.

This is imaginary hysteria, like the rape epidemic in college.; 11/12/17, 2:58 PM
Drago said...: Inga: "..let’s go back to that bad old days, huh?"

Well, the left is agitating for resegregating college campuses and demanding Victorian era behavior for men, so......yes, I guess?; 11/12/17, 3:12 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “ no anthesthesiologist is anywhere but the head of the bed unless they are doing a head case.”

No kidding, so why was the anesthesiologist in Madison at the foot end of patients, looking at their crotches? Maybe one of the reasons he surrendered his liscense.

“The report came as Dr. Mark Schroeder, a longtime anesthesiologist at UW Health, resigned in August and surrendered his license in September after a behavior complaint.

Schroeder “likes to be at the ‘bottom of the bed’ and ‘see parts of patients that he does not need to see,’ ” according to a summary of the complaint to the state in July from nurses and anesthesiology assistants.”; 11/12/17, 3:16 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/health-med-fit/uw-doctor-gives-up-license-after-behavior-complaint/article_55579fa6-f06a-57aa-80da-2697a20e0038.html

“Dr. Mark Schroeder, a longtime anesthesiologist at UW Health, has surrendered his license after the state launched an investigation into a complaint about his behavior.

Schroeder, 64, of Madison, “likes to be at the ‘bottom of the bed’ and ‘see parts of patients that he does not need to see,’” according to a summary of a complaint in July from nurses and anesthesiology assistants.

He worked at UW Health from 1984 until August, spokeswoman Lisa Brunette said. The hospital had reprimanded him for “inappropriate interactions with employees and patients,” the state Department of Safety and Professional Services said.”; 11/12/17, 3:21 PM
walter said...: Is it more polite to oggle the junk of a body-bagged dude, like those 5 nurses in Denver?; 11/12/17, 3:57 PM
Michael K said...: Inga, maybe he, like a former partner of mine, when accused of malpractice by a paid whore of a "expert," when he was in poor health, gave up his license and retired.

Maybe the guy was a pervert but may be the females around there are typical Madison WI hysterics. I don't know.

There is NO reason for an anesthesiologist to be at the foot of the bed during a case. Among other things, if you had ever been in an operating room, you know the patient is covered.; 11/12/17, 4:08 PM
JAORE said...: Geez, Laslo. That was brilliant and chilling.; 11/12/17, 4:11 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Maybe the guy was a pervert but may be the females around there are typical Madison WI hysterics. I don't know.”

Maybe more than just hysterical female medical personnel observed his behavior. I’ve been in many ORs and the drape is placed according to what area is being worked on. There are instances of surgery that involve the genitals or pelvic area in which case that area would not be draped. Quit making excuses for bad behavior. And yes, he had no business being at the patients foot end.; 11/12/17, 4:18 PM
Michael K said...: There are instances of surgery that involve the genitals or pelvic area in which case that area would not be draped. Quit making excuses for bad behavior. And yes, he had no business being at the patients foot end.

Inga, always ready with the obvious.

If you do surgery on the genitals OF COURSE they are draped. Have you really been in an operating room? I wonder.

Do nurses you know leave patients exposed? The only area exposed is the small site of the procedure.

And the anesthesiologist would be at the head, as usual.

I have know a couple of anesthesia guys who were perverts. One was found peeing in a cup and injecting it in patients.

You story just doesn't sound valid.

Now if he was going around to patients' beds and asking them to disrobe, etc, I see that as plausible.

Sounds like typical feminist hysteria, like 25% of college girls raped.; 11/12/17, 4:32 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 11/12/17, 5:06 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Michael K, the patient comes into the OR covered, but undraped, the patient then gets draped in the way that is called for depending on the area to be worked on. I honestly don’t know if you’re having a brain fart or just trying to be difficult. Or has it been so long that you’ve forgotten how a surgical patient is draped? There are times in which the genitals may be observed during the procedure. Sheesh.

And it’s not MY story, it’s the rports of the medical personnel there.

Draping a patient for surgery.
https://youtu.be/VB1ufcUCr6c; 11/12/17, 5:10 PM
Michael K said...: "There are times in which the genitals may be observed during the procedure. Sheesh. "

I wonder how many times you've been in the OR. You Do NOT expose the patient any more than necessary.

We had a student practical exam in physical diagnosis. The "patients" were actors and actresses. USC started it in the 60s but all medical schools use the same method now and the National Boards do, too.

For the female abdomen exam, I would fold a sheet on the table. The patient was wearing a typical hospital gown. The "patients" and I would talk about this before each student. If the student lifted up the gown without using the sheet to drape the lower body, they failed the exam.

I stipulated a long time ago that maybe he was pervert but that stuff just does not happen in a normal operating room.

If he was looking at genitals he was not doing it in the OR unless UW is full of incompetents.; 11/12/17, 6:14 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Michael K,

You are an old contrarian, if I’d say the sky was blue, you’d say it was pink. You make no sense whatsoever. I really don’t understand why you’re so invested in trashing the female ( and male) staff of UW Health. There were complaints about this anesthesiologist’s behavior, there was an investigation, he resigned and surrender his license.

End of story.; 11/12/17, 6:46 PM
Michael K said...: Inga, you are beyond logic.

Have a nice rest of the day.; 11/12/17, 6:52 PM
Defenseman Emeritus said...: When I was a child I really did want to be a doctor, but didn't have it in me...

Sounds like your date did last night though! [Rim (no pun intended) shot]; 11/13/17, 8:41 AM
veni vidi vici said...: "The whining from UW sounds like something else is at work."

Indeed, it sounds like a bunch of book-smart sillies actually believed that the doctor's life would be like "Grey's Anatomy", and when it turned out to be like any other salaried grind, they got pouty.; 11/13/17, 2:01 PM