September 25, 2017

"I haven’t seen a single play that happened yesterday in the NFL. And I’m not urging people to… It’s not a boycott. I just didn’t feel it."

"As I said, the thrill’s gone. The sadness was overwhelming.... I don’t know that the NFL understands what’s happening to it. I really don’t think they do," said Rush Limbaugh on his show today.
Trump supporters to this day are not understood. They are still impugned and mocked and laughed at. But they have grown tired of a country they love as being under assault as unjust or immoral or illegitimate. They’re fed up with it. Their president defends it, defends them. The specifics don’t matter. There is finally somebody speaking up for America. “But, Rush! But, Rush! The protesters are speaking up for America.” They may think so, but they’re not, in the eyes of most NFL fans. They’re not speaking up for America. This is not complicated, either....

Donald Trump instinctively knows where the heart of America is. The National Football League all these years has thought that it knew because of its robust popularity and money. But it turns out it didn’t, and doesn’t.

Here’s another theory that was sent to me. My old buddy Seton Motley said: “The left’s idea to play up the NFL protests knowing it would further the left’s effort to kill the NFL by bringing the right against it is brilliant strategy, and the political neophyte NFL is the useful idiot in its own impending demise.”
Motley's point, by the way, is close to what I was saying yesterday in "Just when liberal media was gearing up to destroy football over all the brain damage, Trump calls for a boycott of football over the National Anthem protests."

226 comments:

1 – 200 of 226   Newer›   Newest»
mockturtle said...

And the biggest losers? The players. Some of whom weren't even involved in this crap. Maybe their brains will be saved by the NFL's demise.

Mark said...

Ann's Rush obsession hits a new peak.

Nothing more than an attention whore.

Earnest Prole said...

Burned in a timeless three-way script.

Sam L. said...

Mayhap the NFL will see the error of their ways? I am not a football fan, but I don't believe the NFL is smart enough to find daylight to run to.

Big Mike said...

If the NFL self-immolates, have the players asked themselves who will pay them two million bucks a year? It's not as though they could play soccer or professional basketball instead?

mockturtle said...

Well, Big Mike, I understand some of them have degrees in Communications. ;-)

Laslo Spatula said...

Trump's plan is working: soon they will be bringing back the USFL.

I am Laslo.

Etienne said...

It's interesting how the cities who supposedly own these stadiums are silent on their use as a political front, which has the capacity to offend its citizens, who then abandon the stadiums, leaving the city bankrupt.

I would ask the cities: do you know where the NFL is taking your stadium?

Do you approve? If not, step in, and dictate the rules you want enforced.

Is displays of patriotism really necessary, or should you just go for the money?

Should one disgruntled player, with a social agenda be able to destroy your profits?

Laslo Spatula said...

Have been reading a book on the Attica prison uprising.

Prisoners didn't have an exit strategy that didn't depend on the other side acquiescing.

What is the exit strategy for the NFL and their players?

I am Laslo.

Rt1 Rebel said...

Kinda off-point, but all of this comes at a good time for my NFL fandom. After the Colts and Irsay left Baltimore in the dark of the night, I turned to the SD Chargers. That was a fun ride while it lasted /sarcasm. And then the Chargers move to Carson, or some damn place, so I was already out on the NFL anyway. Feels good to get in on the ground floor of something for once in my life. Anyway, haven't seen a play this year, and that includes the playoffs and SB from last season.

David Begley said...

Tonight on MNF kneeling and locking arms is supposedly "a sign of unity."

Unity? Unity about what?

This is incoherent.

My one big take is that the NFL is caught up in its own importance. But that's over for many. As Rush said, "the thrill is gone."

Badgers v. Cornhuskers is way more interesting. And fun.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Laslo Spatula said...

From Drudge link:
"Broncos linebacker Von Miller may be out an endorsement deal as a result of kneeling during the national anthem."

The Big Stars with the Nike endorsements aren't going to feel any repercussions soon.

The smaller players with the local business endorsements (car dealers, plumbing, etc) are going to get squeezed.

Let's see how UNITY in the locker-room holds up in a few weeks...

I am Laslo.

Unknown said...


Donald Trump knows where the heart of (racist) America is. Yes indeed he does. And yes, I'm happy to impugn and mock you Trumpists, now more than ever, because if you don't have the good sense to see Trump for what he is by now, there is nothing left to do but mock and laugh at you.

reader said...

I don't watch football but it has always been caught up in my thoughts of family and home. For the last fourteen years Sunday is family night dinner at our house. My husband would have football on all day while he worked at the sofa. I would be in the kitchen cooking and listening to the game and my husband shouting at the TV.

Yesterday my husband got up at 5:00 to golf 18 and then had the FedEx Cup on TV. He talks to the TV during golf - go figure. My sister had the races on while she laid by the pool. I was in the kitchen cooking.

Family and home endure. I didn't even miss the sound of football.

rcocean said...

Maybe the right and left can unify over boycotting the NFL. The Left because they despise manly sports and are concerned over CTE and the Right because the NFL owners are anti-American globalists who hate their audience.

Let the NFL go the way of Professional Boxing, which seems to be petering out.

I cut the cord and don't miss the NFL at all.

Tommy Duncan said...

The specifics don’t matter. There is finally somebody speaking up for America.

I tell people I won life's lottery in January of 1951. I was born in the United States to caring, God fearing parents who loved me.

Anyone how has visited rural Mexico, Cuba, Somalia, or the Eastern Bloc after the demise of the USSR knows what I mean. To be born under relatively normal circumstances in America provides advantages that are rare in our world.

Trump's genius is his appreciation for the country he was born in. Many, like me, know we have it good. And we have tried to make it good for everyone through Headstart, Medicaid, EEOC, Affirmative Action, WIC and countless other programs.

And we are called "racist", "hateful" and "privileged". The names we are called sting. We are hated while we work hard and pay the taxes that fund the party.

Now millionaire jocks insult us and our country.

Hillary lost because she helped the "deplorables" find their identity and their leader. Hillary was politically tone deaf. So is the NFL.

cronus titan said...

The NFL is in crisis and at a crossroads. I am not quite at Rush's point yet but I wait until after kickoff to avoid the getting the middle finger from the league. I do find myself not all that interested anymore. Started for me last year when the NFL came down like a ton of bricks on players who wore cleats honoring victims of 9/11 and on the Cowboys' players who wore a decal honoring the police officers assassinated during a "peaceful protest." And then did the golf clap for players protesting the U.S. (the socks depicting police as pigs and the press and NFL celebrating it did it for me). The NFL chose sides and virtue signaled about it, which was a stupid thing to do. Football, like most sports, was fun and a great escape, gave us a lot in common to yip yap about, but no more.

Rush is right, it is just sad to see an institution like the NFL commit suicide.

Etienne said...

John Calvin said...As a sports executive let me reveal a dirty industry secret.

Study after study shows that younger Americans aren’t into sports like previous generations. The younger audience that the NFL is trying to appeal to just aren’t there to sustain at the levels they need to survive.

rcocean said...

"He talks to the TV during golf - go figure."

I used to do the same thing - nothing wrong with it. The TV announcers can be terrible.

Laslo Spatula said...

NFL collapses.

Minority hot-dog vendors hardest hit.

I am Laslo.

Anonymous said...

I am not sure I agree in full with her but Mollie Hemingway makes some good points in an article entitled "5 Problems with the NFL's National Anthem Protest".

rcocean said...

I blame the NFL Owners. They don't believe in Free Speech and only Kap take a knee because they agree with his Left-wing politics.

Besides, most of the players seem to be pin-heads who can't even explain why they're "taking a knee" or what its supposed to accomplish. The same morons who were running around with their arms up saying "Don't shoot" after the Mike Brown incident.

Kathryn51 said...

Former co-worker was such a die-hard Seahawk fan that she would get those flashy gel manicures with green/blue sparkle or swirls every month. Wreaked havoc on her nails but she loved them. Bright green/blue clothes every Friday at work. She also makes jewelry for side income. Yesterday - in the morning before the game - she posted a photo of her current Seahawk jewelry styles. And then the Seahawks stayed in the locker room during the National Anthem with a typically smug statement aimed at any fan that might be offended by flag/anthem protests.

My co-worker posted "I'm Done".

That's how it ends - one fan at a time. Because all of those prigs making adoring tweets/posts/whatever about the athletes aren't going to buying tickets any time soon. Just like movies/TV/whatever - the virtue signalers aren't going to fill up those empty seats.

roesch/voltaire said...

I watched the Pack pull one off in over time. It was an exciting game. As far as I can tell from the players Trump now has become the inspiration for opposition to surpression of the constitution as well as injustice for people of color thanks to his hate speech. while the players take a knee against injustice and speak for unity, Trump calls for insults and division. We shall how this plays out.

alan markus said...

Maybe the NFL could get some of it's mojo back by allowing the "Raise the Skirt" movement space on the sidelines to do their "art project".

Humperdink said...

The owners and Goodell are now dancing with the devil and can't escape. I am with Rush on this. It is truly sad that an venerable American institution is meeting it's demise at the hands of the commie-pinko lefties (what else is new?).

The players are squeezing the golden goose by the neck and obviously don't realize it. If I am a college player with the potential to be a first round pick, I am not happy.

sane_voter said...

Good riddence to the NFL.

Also, anybody who thinks this won't eventually spread into the college game is kidding themselves given the general far left bent of the academy. It already happened in microcosm at the Univ. of Missouri. And even though that university as a whole and it's football team specifically are much worse off after the experience, leftists and progressives don't appear to learn from history.

Sally327 said...

At some point the point of playing the game will have to take over. Teams with a lot of players doing the knee down thing during the anthem, or hiding in the tunnel or whatever, are going to find that protest isn't much of a substitute for winning.

If the players were smart (probably a big IF) they'd move on from this pretty quickly before they're trapped into having to do it all the time. I've always wondered if Tim Tebow got tired of having to be the guy kneeling down praying on the field. Maybe sometimes he didn't feel like it but had to keep doing it, at least until he switched sports. I don't think he's kneeling and praying when he gets a hit now.

The problem with sending a message by doing or not doing something, it can become a trap. Even the guy who started it all had to make a big announcement that oh, yeah, he wouldn't do that anymore (if someone would just sign him). That would be funny now that I think about it, if Colin Kaepernick does get signed, he might be the only guy on the team who isn't kneeling.

Humperdink said...

Mark said: "Ann's Rush obsession hits a new peak."

Insightful!!! Thanks for sharing.

Greg Hlatky said...

opposition to surpression of the constitution

That was inspiring. Now go bake me a cake.

Beaver7216 said...

Trying to understand this from a perspective other than Us versus Them partisan politics.

Many are defending the right of Kaepernick and others to kneel, claiming it is the right of free speech. Of course, these people perhaps believe that Donald Trump does NOT have a right of free speech.
People are claiming that Trump's comments were divisive while supporting a handful of lone wolves doing some individualistic act contrary to 80,000 in the stands. Wouldn't unity be better served by a handful going along with the clear majority?
The NFL, AKA No Fun League, which fines players for not having shirts tucked in, socks not pulled up, writing on shoes, not wearing ties at some events, excessive displays of emotions, etc., suddenly is the individual freedom of expression league?
I guess that those who call this a culture war are right. There doesn't appear to be consistent logic anywhere. Just non-debatable cultural differences.
And, yeah, the thrill is gone for me on the NFL. But for many reasons, include concussions.

sane_voter said...

Boycotts and protesting actions have primarily been a tool of the left. If conservative and middle America severely wounds the NFL, the realization of that power will be a political force that the left will rue that it ever unleashed.

iowan2 said...

Unknown, I'm tired of being called a racist, especial from a mental retard such as you that cant point to one reason why you would reach such a conclusion. Fuck you.

Bay Area Guy said...

While millionaire football players are debating whether to stand or kneel for the National Anthem (What courage!), in Venezuela, doctors and teachers are becoming prostitutes.

Just a little modern day perspective of what leftist/socialism does to a group of people.

sane_voter said...

According to the MSM, those Venezuelan doctors and teachers are just extremely unlucky. Sort of like Puerto Rico.

David Begley said...

Bay Area Guy

I understand that all US reporters have left Venezuela but there could be some reporting on this. They still have telephones and internet in Venezuela.

Charlie Eklund said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
reader said...

In our house it is no longer an issue of whether the players do, could, or should stand respectfully during the National Anthem.

It's whether my husband respects the players.

Tim said...

Tommy Duncan- yes , also born in 1951. It's been downhill for the USA since about 1970 for newborns.

Charlie Eklund said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Charlie Eklund said...

Where am I right now? Not watching Monday Night Football, with the Dallas Cowboys playing no less. And that isn't due to Donald Trump's encouragement of a boycott of the NFL. It is because of Villanueva's recanting what he did yesterday, when he was the only Pittsburgh Steeler to do the right thing during the national anthem. The pressure that must have been brought to bear today in order to bring about that recantation has worked on me as well, pressuring me right into washing my hands of the NFL.

grackle said...

I was intrigued when years ago I learned of the Laffer Curve.

One implication of the Laffer curve is that increasing tax rates beyond a certain point is counter-productive for raising further tax revenue.

Another way of putting it: Beyond a certain point instead of more revenue more taxation actually results in less revenue.

I think there is another curve – a curve that President Trump is very good at calculating. There is a certain point in the numerous and varied SJW displays of America-hatred that they become an argument against the very issue(if there is an issue) that those Social Justice Warriors are striving to promote.

Modesty forbids me to name this exciting and insightful concept the “Grackle Curve” so I will hereby christen it the “Trump Curve” – which brings the subject around to the NFL.

The NFL has decided that it wants to make public political demonstrations against the flag and the anthem during its sporting events. Trump has made his calculations and has realized that the NFL has put itself on the downside of the Trump Curve. Trump is now in the process of educating the NFL owners in the true cost of political activity, an activity it must be noted that was completely unnecessary and unprecedented. This bind that the NFL has put itself in is going to cost the NFL millions, perhaps even billions, in lost revenue.

buwaya said...

"We shall how this plays out."

Rush was saying what I said two days ago.
This business is putting a lot of thoughts into the backs of a lot of heads.

Professional sports is a form of engineered mass hallucination.
It is an ersatz tribal entity pleading for a form of loyalty through identification with what are allegedly ones tribal champions.
This is a very fragile psychological trick.

The US is already losing local, urban or regional identification, now there is a mass-phenomenon of a loss of cultural identification. The tribal champions, it seems, aren't. Not only aren't they in your tribe, they don't like you and will take every opportunity to point this out. The hallucination is dispelled.

So what then is the point of being excellent at some artificial ritual? They can please themselves with their excellence.

brylun said...

NFL viewers are down another 8% this week on top of a 13% decline last week. Fewer viewers mean less TV revenue. This trend is showing no signs of abatement.

David Begley said...

Grackle is on to something with the Trump curve.

rhhardin said...

I haven't seen a single play of football since the 60s.

Not a fan.

Edge of Tomorrow (2014)

Cage: You don't talk much.

Rita: I'm not a fan.

Cage: Of talking?

Rita: Not a fan of talking. No.

Cage: You know you eventually do talk to me. It's usually around Lyons. You tell me about the time you went there with your family. Your brother got lost.

Rita: I've never been to Lyons.

Cage: You tell me your middle name. Peyton.

Rita: That's not my middle name.

Cage: You find your brother in the arcade, by the way.

Rita: Well, maybe I made it all up just to keep you quiet.

Cage: But you do talk to me.

Rita: Cage, I do not need to get to know you.

Darrell said...

R/V's previous football experience was having high school players tie jock straps jock straps across his mouth.

Michael said...

I hope the players will triumph and the National Anthem will no longer be played. LOL. How fucking stupid will they look then? What great victory will have been won, what "justice" found? Will they keep kneeling? Why not?

buwaya said...

The nature of this hallucination is that it is fragile. It is unstable (in spite of its persistence over decades). People like to have such fantasies, but these can't be rebuilt if there is a solid doubt planted in the public consciousness. Once there, it stays.

A new fantasy will have to be invented, and the public will have to be re-mesmerized. But it will have to be something else.

Sally327 said...

"It is because of Villanueva's recanting what he did yesterday, when he was the only Pittsburgh Steeler to do the right thing during the national anthem."

I'd give the guy a break. He's part of a team, he needs to have their backs just like he wants them to have his, so he came out and said that he hadn't meant to be the one guy visibly on the field during the national anthem. Which I took to be him trying to move on from what, for him, has probably become an uncomfortable, potentially divisive issue between him and the rest of the team and the head coach. So he put it on himself. He's earned the right to have his patriotism taken as given without having to make big gestures to prove it to the rest of us.

Darrell said...

I can't wait for Monster Trucks and Tractor Pulls to take place in NFL stadium on Sundays in the Fall.

buwaya said...

Yes, Grackle is on to something.
I'd say its more like a form of political Jiu Jitsu.
Make the other side over-commit, to use excessive force, such that they cause their own defeat. The other side is very poor at gauging force. They have poor feedback sensors.

Bay Area Guy said...

Love football, big fan for over 40 years. Listening to music, reading a book, and not watching MNF tonight.

And the more these illiterate neanderthals take a knee during the Anthem (which is they're right), I exercise my right to not watch or attend.

Maybe "illiterate Neanderthals" is too harsh, but we all have freedom of speech, right?

exiledonmainstreet said...

The NFL city I feel sorriest for is Green Bay - and not just because I was a Packer fan.

Most NFL cities will do just fine post-NFL. New York, Chicago, Phoenix and Pittsburgh are not dependent on a football for their identity. Green Bay is. And Brown County voted for Trump. Green Bay is a blue collar town of 100,000, immensely proud of their NFL team founded in 1919. If the NFL dies, that city will die.



pacwest said...

I'm assuming the players union is fine with taking a knee. The owners probably don't like it at all. Money and the having a winning team (which means more money as well as any thrill they get from winning) are what drives them. This shit happens = TV watching drops, less fans at the game = less money. The owners are not happy, or soon won't be. The problem is the player's contracts. Good teams need good players, which cost a lot of money. Will the owner's risk losing a good player because attendance (revenue) is down? What kind of action will the union and players take when told funds are not available? Strike? That would be a risky move at this juncture.
As constantly noted in these threads they are choking the golden goose.

And excellent point above on how they may lose their exit strategy if this goes on too long.

buwaya said...

As for concussions,

Once the fantasy is gone, there is no defense from other arguments.
These acquire a certain utility as a rationalization.
The CTD thing is probably going to be a "respectable" rationalization for abandoning ones interest in football, even if the real reason is the collapse of the tribal hallucination.

tim in vermont said...

It is hard to know what is designed and what is by accident, but if the left were as sophisticated as say, Bill Clinton, then they would use the right and the brain injury stuff against the NFL. It's the militarism they don't like, the loyalty to anybody besides them. But I admit that I was in a bar where football was on and there was a guy injured, and I just don't see it the same way as I did.

Merny11 said...

the irony of it all .... the left riots and destroys campuses to prevent the free speech of Milo and others, but we are the evil and racist ones if we don’t applaud Kapernick and his band of thugs. I am truly amazed at the arrogance and stupidity of the left..

Roughcoat said...

I admit I pretty much stopped watching NFL football a long time ago. I lost interest in it, don't know quite why. It got boring. I hated the grandstanding and showboating mostly by black players. I've stopped watching college football too.

I hope the NFL suffers a swift demise. But I doubt it will.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Grackle has the right of it but it should be noted that none of this was rocket science. Transgenders in the military, Antifa trashing campuses, illegal aliens murdering folks, and, well, Hillary Clinton. The Left seems determined to provide Trump with a steady supply of low-hanging fruit. It would be irresponsible not to pick it.

Unknown said...

Green Bay will survive, especially if the Packers do well. Wisconsin loves the Packers, maybe even more than Trump.

"GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Green Bay Packers President and CEO Mark Murphy released a statement Saturday afternoon following some controversial statements made by President Trump about the NFL on Friday.

Murphy’s full statement is listed below:

"It's unfortunate that the President decided to use his immense platform to make divisive and offensive statements about our players and the NFL. We strongly believe that players are leaders in our communities and positive influences. They have achieved their positions through tremendous work and dedication and should be celebrated for their success and positive impact. We believe it is important to support any of our players who choose to peacefully express themselves with the hope of change for good. As Americans, we are fortunate to be able to speak openly and freely.""

TestTube said...

Lots of other sports to get interested in.

Heck, the Texas Roller Derby plays the national anthem before a bout. And I did not see any of those ladies kneeling.

buwaya said...

"And the more these illiterate neanderthals take a knee"

No, they aren't, for the most part.
Roesch is right, most of these people aren't stupid.
They are caught in their own sort of trap.
They can't NOT participate because they have good reasons to expect sanctions from current and future paymasters. They are not dealing with the big picture of the probable collapse of the whole industry, but their own careers and post-career. They perceive their interests, perhaps wrongly.

Angel-Dyne said...

David Begley:

Unity? Unity about what?

Unity against divisiveness. The divisiveness that is dividing us, divisively.

This is incoherent.

Forget it, David. It's Clown World.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Former Steelers fans burn their Steelers gear:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/angry-steelers-fans-burn-gear-over-national-anthem/

Mary Martha said...

A friend's fantasy football league disbanded today.

These are guys who have been playing in this fantasy league for over 15 years. They all loved football and having a fantasy league was their way of keeping in touch and connected with each other and the game. Now it will be more hunting/golfing/fishing together instead.

It's been a long standing joke that the fantasy league was a huge priority in their lives. Right up there on the big list - God, Family, Country and Fantasy Football.

This means that these men will not raise their kids to love watching the NFL or caring about the sport of football. Their wives will have an easier time in keeping the boys out of football and playing safer sports like Lacrosse.

Once upon a time horse racing and boxing were nationwide passions. Now they are barely footnotes in sporting life.

The NFL has no idea what they have done.

tim in vermont said...

become the inspiration for opposition to surpression of the constitution

This is funny. R/V's candidate used a private email server and deleted 30K emails in order to avoid the constitutionally inherent function of Congressional Oversight. I am not sure how Trump has subverted the Constitution in any such manner.

Unknown said...

You Trumpists would throw your own grandmother over the cliff if she dissed your precious President. This isn't about the flag or the National Anthem. What will it take to shake you sycophants loose from your cult leader? A North Korean nuke to our own west coast?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Blogger Unknown said...
Green Bay will survive, especially if the Packers do well. Wisconsin loves the Packers, maybe even more than Trump."

Stupid Inga, the Packers won't survive if the NFL doesn't.

Who will they play against, the Waupun prison inmates?

Wonderful to see you suddenly become a football fan. It won't last, I'm sure.

Greg Hlatky said...

Oh, and the NFL's CBA expires in a couple of years. If there's a shrinking revenue pie, expect a long, bitter lockout that should end things for good.

buwaya said...

"And excellent point above on how they may lose their exit strategy if this goes on too long."

There may no longer be an exit strategy. No idea what will happen, but this is the nature of preference cascades - they can go very fast. There could well be a crisis in a matter of a few weeks.

"Wisconsin loves the Packers"

Its really quite amazing how quickly people can change their minds. In a situation like this everything can flip in a remarkably short time.

Michael K said...

Blogger Mark said...
Ann's Rush obsession hits a new peak.

Nothing more than an attention whore.


The cluelessness of Mark and Inga is just hilarious. R/V is the standard leftist scold.

Boycotts have been the weapon of the left and Limbaugh was a prominent target but he has figured out, no doubt at some cost, how to be immune.

I'm rereading Pat Buchanan's book about Nixon (his second one) called "Nixon's White House Wars" and had been reading earlier about Pat and Agnew.

That section sounded just like Trump. Buchanan loved Agnew and, when Agnew died in obscurity, Buchanan was at his funeral.

He was probably the only one who knew him in Washington. He was a herald for Trump, if anyone had had a premonition.

DKWalser said...

NFL viewers are down another 8% this week on top of a 13% decline last week. Fewer viewers mean less TV revenue. This trend is showing no signs of abatement.

And, many stadiums are less than half full. I was a huge football fan. I've not watched a game this year. I probably won't watch another this season. It's not an active boycott. The NFL has said clearly and loudly that I'm not wanted. That's okay. I've plenty of other things to do with my time. It seems many other (former) fans feel the same way.

Unknown said...

Texans, like Wisconsinites, won't turn their backs on their football either. Football is part of the Texas culture.

Michael K said...

"this is the nature of preference cascades - they can go very fast. There could well be a crisis in a matter of a few weeks. "

I agree. It will be interesting to see if they figure it out in time.

I thought Jerry Jones was smarter than this. The problem is that 75% of NFL players are black. White parents no longer send their kids to play football like they once did.

Bay Area Guy said...

I've been putting off golf for decades - time to break out the clubs!

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

Realistically, I think the players and owners are going to walk this back faster than anyone thinks. I would bet they're planning it right now. "We made our point and now we'll return to standing for the anthem". No rice bowls broken and all is forgiven. But never quite the same.

Angel-Dyne said...

r/V: As far as I can tell from the players Trump now has become the inspiration for opposition to surpression of the constitution as well as injustice for people of color thanks to his hate speech.

If enjoying sportsball is no longer an option, perhaps watching Inga and r/V energetically compete for the title of Silliest Ass on the thread can substitute.

Sebastian said...

"But they have grown tired of a country they love as being under assault as unjust or immoral or illegitimate. They’re fed up with it. Their president defends it, defends them."

But it's late, maybe too late. The assault has succeeded: the left controls the MSM, education, the federal agencies, a chunk of the courts, many boardrooms. Voting GOP has been a way for the people to say no, but it hasn't been enough. Progs have won in leaving not much left to love. We are at an inflection point. Trump is a very imperfect messenger, an even less perfect general in the culture war. But for now, he's all we've got.

Unknown said...

If I were a betting person, if it comes down to the demise of the NFL and the demise of the Trump presidency, my money is on the demise of the Trump presidency. Trump won't win this one.

Roughcoat said...

Roesch is right, most of these people aren't stupid.

Actually, Buwaya (and Roesch), many of them are, objectively, stupid. I speak from considerable experience with the type. And many (most?) of those who aren't stupid are abysmally ignorant. Because they're professional athletes who've skated through much of their college and post-college lives, they're arrogant and monumentally self-regarding. The mixture of arrogance, self-regard, and ignorance causes them to say and do stupid things. Which is another way of saying, they're stupid. Because stupid is as stupid does.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

How is it hate speech to point out the Colin Caepernick is a cop-hating asshole who spits on the graves of dead cops who were killed defending the free speech of a bunch of hate filled leftwing democrats - who believe the lies CNN sells them?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Its really quite amazing how quickly people can change their minds. In a situation like this everything can flip in a remarkably short time.

9/25/17, 8:46 PM

I loved the Packers. I didn't watch the game yesterday. I don't care that they won.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in the state.

Now that the players have shown their contempt for their fans (and most football fans are conservative), you have to have a lack of self-respect to cheer for those who despise you and hate America.

It's astounding, really. Goodall and the players are going to piss away a multi-billion dollar industry - all because a mediocre and extremely stupid QB took the advice of his leftist girlfriend.

tim in vermont said...

You Trumpists would throw your own grandmother over the cliff if she dissed your precious President

Yeah, OK. And if we won't you will be happy to pay some actors for a theatrical rendition for TV ads. My mother disses the president all the time. I never argue with her. What does she know? She's 90+ and gets her news from the networks. We sit and drink Manhattans and laugh about stuff.

Sebastian said...

The irony will be that for conservative, patriotic US sports fans, the most international games will be the final refuge -- golf, the EPL, and the Champions League. Maybe hockey--we'll see; certainly the NHL has a huge marketing opportunity.

Henry said...

I listened to Villanueva's press conference and only came away with more respect for the guy. Despite it being unintentional, he unequivocally apologized for showing up his coach and his team. Respect, responsibility, and loyalty drives every kind of successful team. You can see why he was a decorated soldier.

One interested factoid. When the team voted about whether to kneel, stay off the field, or proceed as normal, Villanueva said that the offensive line unanimously voted to proceed as normal -- but they were outvoted.

Video and transcript here.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Rush is crying crocodile tears. The NFL wouldn't let him buy a team for reasons very much related to the reason players are taking a knee.

tim in vermont said...

If Major League Baseball is on in a bar, you will notice that only the old men are watching it. These sports are doomed anyways. Baseball requires a lot of. knowledge of the sport to realize you are not watching a competition between the grass growing and the paint drying. That knowledge is dying out too.

Sally327 said...

"I was a huge football fan. I've not watched a game this year."

I'm only a casual fan and mostly tune in when it gets to the playoffs. Which I will probably do this year. But then this whole thing doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me because I decided a long time ago that I wasn't going to base my entertainment consumption on the politics of the people involved. Which means that if I want to watch a movie with Jane Fonda in it (which was the first situation I remember having to think about all this) or Sean Penn or read a book by Stephen King (huge leftie) then I just ignore everything else about them.

Greg Hlatky said...

"But they have grown tired of a country they love as being under assault as unjust or immoral or illegitimate by people with no moral standing whatsoever."

Fixed.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Unknown said...
If I were a betting person, if it comes down to the demise of the NFL and the demise of the Trump presidency, my money is on the demise of the Trump presidency. Trump won't win this one."

Inga has been saying "Trump won't win this one" for over a year now.

Inga's record on such matters is laughably dismal but that doesn't stop her from making more ignorant predictions.

Tell us about the Russians, Inga. That was supposed to mean the demise of the Trump presidency too.

Jack Wayne said...

The kneeling during the National Anthem is the flash-point, like the shelling of Fort Sumter. But for me, Peak Sports was reached a month ago when PSG paid a $260M transfer fee to Real Madrid for Neymar. That gave PSG the right to pay him $41M/yr. It’s so crazy I can’t comprehend it.

buwaya said...

Maybe the US will finally adopt the true football, the beautiful game.
There are good reasons it is globally popular.
Its traditions are as old as baseball.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

It's important for the NFL to express there hatred of cops by bending a knee. (and now their hatred of Trump, and the flag - and ordinary Americans who like patriotism and a show of gratitude for their freedoms at football games)

CNN - kills

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Good going, Dallas Cowboys.

Greg Hlatky said...

You Trumpists would throw your own grandmother over the cliff if she dissed your precious President

Pretty funny to read after eight years of homage to your little Lightworker god-emperor and screaming that even the slightest criticism was treason.

Go back to your assassination fantasies.

buwaya said...

"The NFL wouldn't let him buy a team for reasons"

The reasons were political.
Limbaugh as a major team owner would have had a more broadly influential (reaching a broader audience) role in the ongoing politico-cultural argument. Blocking him was deliberate politics. These people play dirty.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Maybe the US will finally adopt the true football, the beautiful game."

Most of us are not fond of games that can end with a 0-0 score. Soccer bores me to tears.


"There are good reasons it is globally popular."

It's popular because it requires no equipment besides a ball. Any Third World kid can kick a ball around a dirt street.

Original Mike said...

"It's important for the NFL to express there hatred of cops by bending a knee."

The players would stop hating the cops if the cops would just stop arresting them.

Michael K said...

my money is on the demise of the Trump presidency. Trump won't win this one.

Can I get some of that ? My e-mail address is linked at my blog.

Eventually, you've got to be right about something.

Make some money ! Sock it to me, Inga !

exiledonmainstreet said...


The players would stop hating the cops if the cops would just stop arresting them.

9/25/17, 9:04 PM

http://nflarrest.com/

I have to say, the Pack comes out looking pretty good...

buwaya said...

"It's popular because it requires no equipment besides a ball"

To play properly it requires space, and rather well-tended, not multi-purpose space too. That's why it is less popular than basketball in more crowded parts of the third world.

Henry said...

Frankly, the NFL should go the way of bearbaiting if they don't figure out a way to protect players from head trauma. What will happen is that they will be starved of talent. College football is already a scam run by manipulative asshats that make Roger Goodell look like Elliot Ness. Sooner or later they will feel the pressure. And the longer the rules stay the same, the fewer star athletes will get into the pipeline.

The irony is that the safest of the major sports, baseball, is the one most worried about its slipping popularity. I'm all for anything that's good for baseball.

tim in vermont said...

TALKING TREASON: IS HATRED OF OBAMA TRUMPING PATRIOTISM?
BY KURT EICHENWALD ON 9/29/14 AT 2:49 PM
. - Newsweek.

I would love to see the D-List or better publication or better that has accused Trump haters of "treason."

But Unknown declared some time ago that he was not here to engage, but only to attempt mockery and ridicule to the best of his paltry ability.

Paco Wové said...

"Wonderful to see you suddenly become a football fan."

Didn't you know? Her daughter was a defensive lineman for Green Bay.

Gk1 said...

What a senseless waste of a business. Really, this is a super fuck up that will be taught in business schools the way they teach about the "New Coke" roll out of 1985. Watch these assholes have the guts to ask for a govt. bailout when their whole enterprise crashes and burns.

Original Mike said...

"Most of us are not fond of games that can end with a 0-0 score."

Well, I love hockey. At least there's a chance of scoring.

mockturtle said...

I was actually glad that my formerly beloved Seahawks lost yesterday. I watched baseball and a little golf. Not watching MNF tonight. Oddly, because I've been a mega-fan, I don't think I'm going to miss it at all. And I've got several new books to read. :-)

Roughcoat said...

Oh, please, let's not talk about soccer. Please.

tim in vermont said...

Soccer can be fun to watch, but there is a learning curve that people who didn't grow up playing it will never overcome. It's like baseball, a nothing nothing tie in baseball can be extremely exciting to a serious fan. But kids don't play baseball all day in a sandlot until dinner time, and then after dinner until the lightening bugs came out, like we did.

Darrell said...

I'd pay up to ten cents to see a soccer match. A quarter for the World Cup. Maybe.

tim in vermont said...

I spent a month working in Salford Quays, staying in a hotel in the shadow of the the Old Trafford and listening to the songs the fans sung I got curious and wandered into some bars and watched games with the fans who had just come to be near the excitement. It was fun, but I haven't really watched it since.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"I'm all for anything that's good for baseball."

Yep. This could be a golden opportunity for baseball to gain in popularity - especially with the playoffs coming up. (Baseball doesn't play as well on TV as football, however; that is probably the biggest reason football overtook baseball as the most popular American sport in the 1960's, with the advent of the Super Bowl.) The stupidest thing that could happen would be if MLB players decide to emulate football players, but I doubt that will happen. The demographics are different - Hispanics who seem extremely grateful to play in the US, whites, Asians, and American blacks who generally come from middle class homes, not the hood. (Hence mlb's ongoing attempts to make Jackie Robinson's sport popular in the inner cities.)

Also, mlb took a huge hit after the 1994 strike. I don't think they are willing to rush into this controversy, especially if they are watching NFL viewership decline.

Henry said...

Folks, I give you Utlimate Frisbee highlights.

Sebastian said...

"Oh, please, let's not talk about soccer." Actually, let's. How long before MLS games outdraw the NFL? I guess in some cities it's already close. Of course, MLS may go the way of the NFL in political correctness.

But that's second-tier stuff. The commitment, energy, skill, and fan involvement in even average EPL games makes them enjoyable. And while nearly every team consists of a mix of international stars, the loyalties are local, and the politics can hardly become national. Refreshing compared to the NFL and the NBA. Spare me the 0-0 cliches.

Tommy Duncan said...

Most NFL cities will do just fine post-NFL. New York, Chicago, Phoenix and Pittsburgh are not dependent on a football for their identity. Green Bay is. And Brown County voted for Trump. Green Bay is a blue collar town of 100,000, immensely proud of their NFL team founded in 1919. If the NFL dies, that city will die.

Green Bay will be OK. Their new NFL divisional rivals in Sioux Falls, Duluth, Peoria and Dubuque will help them keep the Title Town spirit alive. The bus rides will foster team unity.

george said...

The voters who elected Trump had no one to vote for in prior elections. The candidate who understands this will win in 2020. The rest is just static.

Static Ping said...

Yesterday I noted that rather than watch my football team play, I went out and mowed the lawn. I will admit that I did watch the end of the Packers game, but that was basically because my dinner mate had it on and it was rude to ask to change the channel. And it was a great end to the game, all the fun that the NFL could be. And then I remembered that the league has more officially declared it hates America. I skipped the Sunday night game. I skipped the Monday night game. If anything, the developments today have made me even less interested in watching.

It amazes me that the NFL has gotten in bed with those who want it destroyed. Historically, that never works unless you have a plan to dispose of your "ally" when the moment arises. Instead, they have decided to go all in on this, straight forward into its doom. I suppose it is a tragedy, but a well earned one. Sad.

Original Mike said...

"The commitment, energy, skill, and fan involvement in even average EPL games makes them enjoyable."

I had to look up "EPL".

Henry said...

How long before MLS games outdraw the NFL?

NFL preseason games outdraw the MLS. I'd say never.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga said : "Football is part of the Texas culture."

So is intense patriotism, doofus.

Earnest Prole said...

God Bless America, where you have a right to hide out during the national anthem and turn off the television if something on it offends you.

Mr. Majestyk said...

What I love is the idea race relations ALL OF A SUDDEN got terrible in Amerikkka. Kneeling during the anthem didn't happen in the 50s or 60s, but now, after we've had a black president, NOW things are critically bad. Yeah, right. Where were these oh-so-enlightend multi-millionaire protesters 2 years ago? Get back in your 3-button suits and fancy sports cars and get the f*ck outta here.

Sebastian said...

"I had to look up "EPL"." Live and learn.

Anyway, it's there. No BS. All out, all the time. Fans almost as much fun as the game itself. No parity, but pretty tough competition.

Tommy Duncan said...

tim in vermont said:

But kids don't play baseball all day in a sandlot until dinner time, and then after dinner until the lightening bugs came out, like we did.

We started with 2 on 2 driveway basketball after lunch. When enough guys showed up we played football in the vacant lot behind the hospital. When we started bleeding too much from football we switched to baseball. We headed for the swimming pool on our bikes at about 7:00 PM. The pool closed at 9:00. There were no fat kids back then. There were lots of tough kids.

Original Mike said...

"Anyway, it's there. No BS."

Ain't that the sport where the players roll around on the ground acting as if they'd been gut-shot in an attempt to draw an unwarrented penalty?

Henry said...

Yesterday, rather than watch the Patriots play the Texans, I filled the bird feeder. I gazed up at the trees and tried to remember how to identify those non-oak, non-maple ones. I repacked the camping gear. I missed the first five minutes of the game.

In truth, the player injury issues bother me more than the patriotic pantomime. I'll watch out the end of the Brady-Belichick run, but that's probably it. At least, in the most hated league, the Patriots are the most hated team. Which makes them kind of the good guys, right?

Sebastian said...

"NFL preseason games outdraw the MLS. I'd say never."

Atlanta United v. Orlando City: 70K. Falcons - Packers: 71K.

Jack Wayne said...

Sebastian, for my money Dortmund is the team to watch. Big game tomorrow.

Tarrou said...

Ok, I'll be the one to say it.

I'm damned proud of these poor and downtrodden millionaires. If not for them, the scourge of indiscriminate murders of people of color by national anthems would continue unabated.

Anonymous said...

No doubt the players and the owners will try to walk it back when it starts to impact their wallets. It's not going to work though - whoever in Pittsburgh applied pressure to Villaneuva to make his apology ended any chance the league had of containing this damage. Making a veteran apologize for showing pride in his country on the likely pain of losing his job is something that will stick in my mind for good concerning not just the players and coach of that team, but the entire league (yes, I know all concerned will deny that's what happened, but the optics are damning).

rcocean said...

Its a tragedy that Hockey doesn't play that well on TV. Its fantastic in person.

Soccer is for most Americans like baseball is for most foreigners. You have to know and care about all the subtleties, because on the surface both sports can be incredibly boring.

Sebastian said...

"Sebastian, for my money Dortmund is the team to watch. Big game tomorrow." And before long, my fellow conservatives will welcome Christian Pulisic as the savior of our national sports honor. For now, he's safe from the domestic craziness.

Ken B said...

Question. The odds are one of these kneelers is also one of the wife-beaters. We had entire teams staying off the field after all, and 23% of players doing something. He must exist. Wouldn't he make a great poster child for this?

iowan2 said...

Curry, and La Brone came out dissing President Trump. Because their convictions run deep. Riiiight.

I would love some real person do an interview if these two oafs, like Curic interviewed Palin. Ask them what books they read, what the purpose of life is. An expose on two guys the can dribble a ball, claiming to by my moral better. The point is, all of these guys have no consistent world view that supports their actions.

Michael K said...

I'm pretty much convinced of buwaya's "Preference Cascade " theory.

Really, this is a super fuck up that will be taught in business schools the way they teach about the "New Coke" roll out of 1985.

Another interesting theory. If only Peter Drucker were still alive to see this.

I think Facebook and Google are vaporware that could go away in a relative instant if tastes change.

Pro Football is an order of magnitude more fragile.

tim in vermont said...

The thing about football is that you don't have to understand the game to watch it. Ooh! They got three yards! Yay!

Michael K said...

Making a veteran apologize for showing pride in his country on the likely pain of losing his job is something that will stick in my mind for good

An aspect of this that is not talked about is that his parents are Spanish citizens. He was born here when his father, an Admiral in the Spanish Navy, was stationed in Washington.

He chose to go to West Point and do three tours in war.

I still remember him as a tight end on the Army team. He is 6-10.

tim in vermont said...

Google, alas, is not vapor ware. I wish it would get commoditized more quickly though.

Henry said...

Average MLS attendance is about 20K. Except for the Seattle Sounders who draw twice that for some reason. Average NFL attendance is about 65K. I'm not sure if there's a valid stat for preseason attendance, since NFL season ticket holders have to buy preseason tickets as part of the package.

William said...

There's complete unamity among the players and owners to support the kneelers and oppose Trump. This makes me think that all the coercive social pressure pushes one way. This much unamity is more indicative of despotism than of freedom of expression. There must be some players and owners who think the protest is self indulgent and self destructive, but they dare not voice their opinion. I don't know how it will turn out, but I can't imagine a scenario where the NFL comes out ahead. Maybe they won't go bankrupt, but it will definitely have an adverse effect on their bottom line.

Unknown said...

“Our country is an embarrassment in the world," Popovich said in a press conference in response to the president's remarks over the weekend.

This is an individual who actually thought that when people held arms during the games, that they were doing it to honor the flag. That’s delusional. Absolutely delusional, but it’s what we have to live with," the coach said.

So you’ve got a choice: We can continue to bounce our heads off the wall with his conduct, or we can decide that the institutions of our country are more important, that people are more important, that the decent America that we all thought we had and want is more important, and get down to business at the grass-roots level and do what we have to do," Popovich continued, while also wondering at what point Trump will cross the line for his supporters and at what point does "the morality and decency kick in?"

Good question.

mockturtle said...

For fans of pro golf, the Presidents Cup is on this weekend. Not as interesting as the Ryder Cup but still match play.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"Didn't you know? Her daughter was a defensive lineman for Green Bay."

That was funny!

William said...

Football is an exciting game to watch, but the playing of it does cause brain damage. Beyond that, some players are criminals, some players are demonstratively unpatriotic, and all the players are tolerant of the criminals and the showboaters. There are a lot of reasons to dislike football. It's exciting watch, but there are other ways to kill time.

Greg Hlatky said...


Soccer: Get bumped into, roll on the ground in agony.

Hockey: Head torn off, miss a shift, play 25 minutes anyway.

tim in vermont said...

So you’ve got a choice: We can continue to bounce our heads off the wall with his conduct, or we can decide that the institutions of our country are more important, that people are more important, that the decent America that we all thought we had and want is more important

Yes, we know, you thought that you were going to win and Hillary would be president today and us deplorables would be getting it good and hard day after day. Hillary even broke out the champaign at 10:00 AM. LOL!

Didn't happen. Won't happen. I am so fucking glad the Hillary is not president, and every day when I read the shit you write, I am even more glad.

Greg Hlatky said...


There must be some players and owners who think the protest is self indulgent and self destructive, but they dare not voice their opinion.

The smaller the social group the more intense the pressure to conform. See also: humanities departments.

tim in vermont said...

I don't get why liberals think that the opinions of liberals in other countries should have any effect on how Americans should vote, or why they think that foreigners have America's bests interests at heart when they criticize America.

Ken B said...

The Patriots sold tap water at $4.50 a cup. Just so you know the kind of people we are talking about here.

The NFL lies about CTE.
The NFL spent more time on this protest than they ever have on players' wife beating or drunk driving.
They get vast tax breaks and subsidies.
It's glorious watching them trash their brand, just glorious.

Buwaya's engineered hallucination theory is very interesting. I do hope it's right.

Greg Hlatky said...


"Our country is an embarrassment in the world," Popovich said in a press conference

What kind of idiot quotes such coruscating stupidity with approval?

Greg Hlatky said...


I don't get why liberals think that the opinions of liberals in other countries should have any effect on how Americans should vote

It was said of Susan Sontag that she went to Europe every year to be told what she should think.

chickelit said...

exiledonmainstreet noted: It's astounding, really. Goodall and the players are going to piss away a multi-billion dollar industry - all because a mediocre and extremely stupid QB took the advice of his leftist girlfriend.

And he did it all for pussy, really. Sort of like how Bill Clinton tossed away his presidential legacy (and his wife's chances for the same) for pussy.

Tira di più un pelo di figa che un carro di buoi ~ Italian proverb.

chickelit said...

Tira di più un pelo di figa che un carro di buoi

The Google translation of that is laughably wrong which is why I can still make money as a translator.

Here's a better translation: link

Michael K said...

Who is "Popovich" Inga? One of your Russians ?

I hope Kaepernick's girlfriend gives very good head as she seems to be burning down the NFL.

rcocean said...

“Our country is an embarrassment in the world," Popovich said in a press conference in response to the president's remarks over the weekend."

What a dumbshit. Do you think THE WORLD cares about the NFL or whether the POTUS called them SOB's or whether they stand, kneel, or do jumping jacks during the Star Spangled Banner?

Hey, Popovich, THE WORLD doesn't give a rats ass about you or American Pro Sports Teams. They have their own sports and their own problems.

exiledonmainstreet said...

chickelit said
Tira di più un pelo di figa che un carro di buoi

Yep. She must be one fantastic lay.

Gahrie said...

I didn't watch a down this weekend either, and I just found out that i outscored every other team in one of my fantasy leagues by over 100 points....but i barely care.....

Lucien said...

The flopping and diving Original Mike mentions doesn't happen in England. English fans won't stand for it. It's more of a continental European thing.

That said, the greatest soccer player of all time (Lionel Messi who plays in the Spanish league for Barcelona) also doesn't pull that. Google "Messi doesn't dive" and see the s**t this guy goes through to score.

When it comes to NFL, I withdrew from my suicide pool at work this weekend after advancing to the next round and told my co-workers they can keep my buy-in. I'll never watch another game.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"What a dumbshit. Do you think THE WORLD cares about the NFL or whether the POTUS called them SOB's or whether they stand, kneel, or do jumping jacks during the Star Spangled Banner?"

The fact that Inga quotes some dolt's mouthfarts as if they contain the wisdom of the ages shows what an abysmally stupid person she is.

Craig said...

"There's complete unamity among the players and owners to support the kneelers and oppose Trump. This makes me think that all the coercive social pressure pushes one way. This much unamity is more indicative of despotism than of freedom of expression. There must be some players and owners who think the protest is self indulgent and self destructive, but they dare not voice their opinion"

Got any basis for any of this, or is it just self-indulgent BS you're inventing to feel good about taking a reckless position?

---

"I would love some real person do an interview if these two oafs, like Curic [sic] interviewed Palin. Ask them what books they read, what the purpose of life is. An expose on two guys the can dribble a ball, claiming to by my [sic] moral better. The point is, all of these guys have no consistent world view that supports their actions."

I don't think they've claimed to be your moral better, but they'd probably be right if they did. Can you Althousians make an argument without fabricating things?

---

"What I love is the idea race relations ALL OF A SUDDEN got terrible in Amerikkka. Kneeling during the anthem didn't happen in the 50s or 60s, but now, after we've had a black president, NOW things are critically bad. Yeah, right. Where were these oh-so-enlightend multi-millionaire protesters 2 years ago? Get back in your 3-button suits and fancy sports cars and get the f*ck outta here."

I suppose if our host insists upon charitable-interpretation-for-me-but-vicious-interpretation-for-thee, it's no surprise that the commentariat picks that up. Of course, the hostess is far smarter than the commentariat, so we see this sort of thing popping up here. I would love to see some evidence that even a sizable minority of the kneelers are claiming that race relations are significantly worse now than in the 60s. Come on, try harder.

---

"And, many stadiums are less than half full."

Bullshit.

[I'll save you all effort: you can assume I'm inga/unknown/whoever else has ever called you out for your fever-induced baloney arguments. Ad hominem away nutsos.]

Phil 3:14 said...

I know I'm a racist for asking but have any white players knelt?

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

I know I'm a racist for asking but have any white players knelt?

Probably some Cowboys did tonight. As an old Packers fan, I despise the Dallas team. Hope they fail.

tim in vermont said...

Ad hominem away nutsos

Why bother? You answered opinions with opinions. Opinions are like farts, every asshole produces many a day.

Lucien said...

Craig is funny.

Ralph L said...

I think Facebook and Google are vaporware that could go away in a relative instant if tastes change.
Get out of My Space.

Lucien said...

Not Laslo funny, but funny. I'm not sure it's intentional though. On the other hand it may be deep satire so let's see how it plays out.

Do you like soccer, Craig?

Craig said...

Blogger tim in vermont said...
Ad hominem away nutsos

Why bother? You answered opinions with opinions. Opinions are like farts, every asshole produces many a day.

---

Of course the commentariat here thinks that a question -- "Got a basis for that?" -- is an opinion.

William said...

Complete unamity about a controversial issue is extremely rare. There's a clear downside to these protests, and NFL players are not uniformly stupid. There must be some doubters. There are always doubters, but in some environments it's prudent to not speak out. The kneelers are claiming 1st amendment rights, but such a right will not be granted to any teammate or club owner who tells the kneelers to kiss off.....Craig, just as a matter of curiosity do you approve of the players who ran onto the field in a "hands up, don't shoot" pose? Is there any SJW protest you think is invalid, excessive, or wrong?

chickelit said...

Here's a thread from a couple months ago wherein "Craig" does a very good Ritmo impression.

Quaestor said...

exiled wrote: I have to say, the Pack comes out looking pretty good...

Compared to the Vikings, but compared to any other socio-economic group with similar purchasing power... Jesus H. Christ. The fucking Hell's Angels were quite so rowdy even when Hunter Thompson was telling motorcycle horror stories to suburban housewives.

Craig said...

Here's a thread from a couple months ago wherein "Craig" does a very good Ritmo impression.

9/25/17, 10:51 PM

---

Aww, poor widdle baby still nursing hurt feelings from being called out for being full of bs? Poor baby!

Darrell said...

The NFL doesn't realize we're not coming back--even if they start wearing Uncle Sam uniforms and hire George M. Cohan for the Superbowl halftime show.

Quaestor said...

Ad hominem away nutsos

Nutsos? Who morphed this blog into an online version of TV Land?

tim in vermont said...

Of course the commentariat here thinks that a question -- "Got a basis for that?" -- is an opinion.

He clearly gave the "basis" for his opinion in his original statement. I didn't see him make any claims to absolute veracity. He was offering an opinion based on the factors he laid out. Of course your reading comprehension leaves you at a severe disadvantage in these kinds of back and forths. Hence the "why bother."

chickelit said...

"Craig" is the Colin Kaepernick of the Althouse blog and Ann Althouse is the Jerry Jones. Utter disrespect for the fans.

Craig said...

Tim, Here's the complete original post:

There's complete unamity among the players and owners to support the kneelers and oppose Trump. This makes me think that all the coercive social pressure pushes one way. This much unamity is more indicative of despotism than of freedom of expression. There must be some players and owners who think the protest is self indulgent and self destructive, but they dare not voice their opinion. I don't know how it will turn out, but I can't imagine a scenario where the NFL comes out ahead. Maybe they won't go bankrupt, but it will definitely have an adverse effect on their bottom line.

9/25/17, 9:51 PM

Where in that post to you see the basis for his claims a) that there is complete unanimity among the players and owners to support the kneelers and oppose Trump or b) that the conjectured players who think the protest is self indulgent and self destructive "dare not voice their opinion" (as if there aren't players who aren't critiquing the movement or as if there aren't reasons not to voice one's own opinion other than fear)? I'm curious...

But, fine, have it your way. When you Althousians make your insane claims, I guess you aren't actually suggesting they are true, and so you are pleading not to be challenged on that basis. I should not have thought it fair to challenge their "absolute" veracity (as if these claims even have a shot at anything other than "no" veracity...). What a bunch of cry babies.

Craig said...

Blogger chickelit said...
"Craig" is the Colin Kaepernick of the Althouse blog and Ann Althouse is the Jerry Jones. Utter disrespect for the fans.

9/25/17, 11:03 PM

---

I love it. Someone challenges you, approximately once a month, to think harder, and your response is that this place is utterly disrespectful because, I guess, Professor Althouse didn't cajole someone else to fire me? Gooooooodness what a baby. I disagree with the professor about a bunch (even as I continue to think she's very, very sharp), but I definitely agree with her on this: toughen up, and either meet my arguments with arguments, or ignore me.

(I don't mean to suggest she's said that about me. I mean to suggest that the general principle there is one she's voiced a number of times.)

GRW3 said...

I'm sure the right thinking people of St. Louis are pleased now that they didn't let Rush become a part owner of the Rams. Soccer is boring. Full stop. The lack of cathartic release after all that fruitless energy spent is why there are so many riots associated with it. Baseball is a pastoral game that is, by nature, more relaxed.

tim in vermont said...

"There's complete unamity among the players and owners to support the kneelers and oppose Trump."

Well, Pittsburgh Steelers were apparently ordered to do so by their Politics loving coach who thanked Obama for his Super Bowl win, if memory serves. But sure, "complete unanimity among players and owners" is wrong. Not correct. Still I think that his point that a lot of players are pressured into supporting it is a valid opinion. Look at the one Steeler who stood for the anthem now apologizing for doing what he thought on Sunday was the right thing, and Big Ben having a sleepless night worrying about it. Obviously there is some level of coercion going on on the BLM side. And if your point is that there is none, you are wrong. If your point is that he didn't really back up his opinion in complete and technically accurate detail, you are right.

But whatever Craig.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Lucien said...
Craig is funny.

9/25/17, 10:38 PM

Yes, he is. It's so funny to see all these Commies suddenly become NFL fans. 90% of them don't know the difference between a field goal and a double play.

chickelit said...

@"Craig": I care much less about what you say and more about how you say it. I am fascinated by the way your style neatly overlaps with Ritmo's style. I am interested in the mechanics of this blog and how its parts work.

Please do carry on with others. I'll try not to disturb you.

Craig said...

Tim,

You're getting there! I'm proud of you. Thinking about dialectical positioning. It is a big advance for you to start thinking in terms of "if your point is this, then that". I'm impressed.

Of course, my point is not that there is no coercion. I haven't said anything about coercion at all. The NFL is a big league, and I'm not in the weeds. I would not make a universal claim like that. Because I care about the facts and about being responsible for what I claim.

And thanks for agreeing that the original post was wrong. I appreciate it.

Jay Elink said...

All those stadia, built with taxpayer money. Billions of debt.

Do the taxpayers in those cities -- almost all run by progs---understand that their bonds will become worthless, that they will be pissing into their own whisky, if they kill the NFL franchise?

And if their bonds are worthless, and if their cities will default on them, and thus become Detroits-in-the making, by saddling their taxpayers with unpayable debt?

THIS is what happens when the left makes everything political.

THIS is what American leftism has come to.

Either they must be crushed in the world of public opinion, or they must be put up that wall they loved when Che was shooting people lined against it.

Ray said...

>If only Peter Drucker were still alive to see this.

Peter would probably comment how like the 60's these are. He was big on historical comparison. He experienced fascism first hand, so his comments would be interesting.

Or perhaps that the NFL was so busy attempting to get more money by expanding their market to women and over saturated the market, and they forgot about their core customers. Kinda like GM and other American car mfg. and the Japanese came in and took a lot of market share due to losing focus. NFL is about time and money spent watching, and there are alternatives.

Peter's expertise was not marketing, but management.

Ray said...

I don't think the NFL can dig themselves out of this in time. They are not willing to upset the protestors and MSM behind them. And once alternatives are experienced and cords cut, there will be no getting the golden goose back. And due to tunnel vision, they won't react till it's too late. They believe there are no alternatives, and the viewers will come back once this cools down. The MSM is on their side! What could go wrong...

Birkel said...

So I am led to believe Leftist Collectivists think losing a substantial portion of customers is good for business? Certainly even the Left knows better than that, right?

I used to watch. I won't anymore. I will drop fantasy leagues too. Bye, bye, Rotoworld. Bye, bye NFL Combine.

William said...

I don't think there is unamity of opinion. As noted, I'm sure there are many doubters, but they are sure keeping their opinions to themselves. Can you tell me who in the NFL is the voice of the opposition? Can you tell me what the upside for the NFL is in this brouhaha? There might be a downside for Trump, but it will be capillary bleeding. The NFL is losing a big chunk of their fan base. Maybe it's not a deathblow, but it's a deep cut, close to the artery.

Mark said...

William (and Tim) -- save yourselves the trouble. Nobody need justify themselves on this point. What William first said was valid. Everyone knows it. Don't fall into the trap. It's a waste of your time and effort.

mccullough said...

The Cowboys knelt tonight in protest of Ezekiel Elliott's six-game suspension for beating up his girlfriend.

grackle said...

This isn't about the flag or the National Anthem.

There is no Get Out of Jail Free card in this particular game of monopoly. Claiming that kneeling during the anthem and the showing of the flag has nothing to do with either is like a whore claiming a blow job has nothing to do with prostitution. The cops are still going to bust you and your pimps, my dear, and I hear that Judge Trump is a hanging judge.

Trump won't win this one.

Funny yet slightly sad. Hope never dies.

I doubt that the NFL will go bankrupt. I think ticket sales will suffer but many fans will swallow their anger and will watch the games on TV. And many of the owners are independently wealthy from sources unrelated to the NFL and use their clubs as a prestigious diversion. However, no one likes losing money even if they have it to lose. Trump and we like-minded Americans are going to make buying into the Social Justice nonsense very pricey for them.

Looking back, I can see how the NFL slipped into this self-induced quagmire. It all started with the second-rate QB in San Francisco, a city that probably has more America-hatred per capita than some locations in Iran. If the owners of the 49ers had not allowed the fool to kneel they would have incurred a severe local PR penalty. Even so, the penalty they are about to pay may dwarf the penalty they avoided that fateful day.

The seemingly harmless folly then seemed to spread to the Seattle Seahawks, a region that may match San Francisco in its disdain for all forms of classical patriotism. The anthem and the flag are objects of scorn for them.

The NFL franchises are located mainly in large TV markets which are anchored by large cities that are hotbeds of Progressivism and that have been under local Democrat political control for many generations. Initially, local heat trumps distant forest fires. But fires can spread.

Mr. Majestyk said...

If race relations are no worse than 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 25 years ago--and if players have been standing respectfully for the National Anthem all this time (which they have)--why the sudden need to kneel in protest over how racist America is? What changed? Seems disingenuous to me.

Craig said...

Blogger Mr. Majestyk said...
If race relations are no worse than 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 25 years ago--and if players have been standing respectfully for the National Anthem all this time (which they have)--why the sudden need to kneel in protest over how racist America is? What changed? Seems disingenuous to me.

9/25/17, 11:52 PM

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This is hyper uncharitable. Maybe these players have different options, different interests, different awareness than players 50, 40, 25 years ago? The jump straight to uncharitably is endemic around here, and often, like here, without warrant.

chickelit said...

Jay Elink: All those stadia, built with taxpayer money. Billions of debt.

Do the taxpayers in those cities -- almost all run by progs---understand that their bonds will become worthless, that they will be pissing into their own whisky, if they kill the NFL franchise?


Stadia are not located in Trump country; Trump country pours money into cities that have stadia. Stadia are located in blue enclaves. Crime-in-Italy, the Rams play in Watts! So the blue fucks will pay for their own stadia folly. As they should. Trumpians will emerge unscathed.

chickelit said...

Jay Elink: I counter you by asking how brain-damaged are communities like Watts or Soldier Field (south side Chicago) which wish to kill the NFL?

eddie willers said...

And he did it all for pussy, really

It ruined Ted Turner.

chickelit said...

grackle notes: The NFL franchises are located mainly in large TV markets which are anchored by large cities that are hotbeds of Progressivism and that have been under local Democrat political control for many generations.

Starve the beast.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Let's review the bidding. I said the players' sudden change in their behavior (i.e., suddenly kneeling for the anthem) with no corresponding change for the worse in this country "seems disingenuous." Craig says I am being "hyper uncharitable." Which seems highly uncharitable itself. Indeed, Craig's jump straight to such a lack of charity seems endemic to his comments.

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