Mr. Trump repeated that assertion on Tuesday, criticizing “alt-left” groups that he claimed were “very, very violent” when they sought to confront the nationalist and Nazi groups that had gathered in Charlottesville, Virginia to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee from a park. He said there is “blame on both sides.”Here's a part of today's statement, in which he is explicit that he did not condemn everyone on the non-counterprotester side.
"I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch... Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”
ADDED: Some people thought his remarks yesterday represented a backing off from his much-criticized "many sides" line, but I was not one of them. I think what he said Saturday, yesterday, and today was basically all the same thing.
Posts
632 comments:
1 – 200 of 632 Newer› Newest»But Obama was given the luxury of saying "If I had a soon, then he would look like Trayvon Martin".
That has to be the most divisive, race-baiting statement EVAHH!
Son, not soon......arrrrggh
Trump visits an optician for an eye test. The optician puts up a diagram on a wall of a swastika and asks Trump "What do you see?". Trump replies "Many sides".
Trump is right. Again.
Kids in some California schools can't wear the American flag on Cinco de Mayo.
Right, MaH,
Let's hope that a hundred years from now, along w/ new Lee statues, folks are erecting statues of Zimmerman.
MAGA!
Trumps statement sounds fair and reasonable to those of us who are not looking for blood and demons.
I was so glad to hear this response when his silly capitulation to the media Monday was was treated so snidely.
It won't stop. You can't take away entitlements once granted. And man, do they ever feel entitled to do this shit. Thanks Obama.
If you insufficiently denounce racism, then you are a racist too!!!!!!!
Midterm elections usually go south for the President's party, but I'm crossing my fingers. The Left and its media toadies are doing everything they can to push middle of the road folks towards Trump.
Middle class and working class whites who aren't racists are probably getting tired of being called racists by spoiled ignorant college kids.
Oh great, if Donald Trump claims not to understand where the line is between Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on the one side and George Washington on the other, his protesters may not either. Here's a hint - Washington helped found the United States of America, he did not rebel against it.
If they were going alphabetically would Brigham Young be one of the first to go or one of the last? I'm trying to think like a millennial.
The funniest part was listening to the biased media in the room TOTALLY perplexed that Antifa was violent and was a part of the problem in Charlottesville.....They asked him that more than once....He told them there were two sides to every story and that journalists should know that....They don't even look....they just take the Democrat talking points of the day and stay on it.....
First, they came for the babies. Then, they came for the whites (and "white" Hispanics). Finally, they came for the males, and females, too.
Left-ward lies a progressive slope.
We all knew what he said yesterday was something he didn't really believe. It's very clear on which side he identifies with. The Alt Right Neo Nazi KKK . Shameful and despicable. Hopefully his Generals will jump ship soon and CEOs will continue to chastise him and distance themselves from him. Anyone who continues to support him after this will be toxic when Trump is finally gone. The smart ones will be leaving before it's too late.
When he said "Is it George Washington next?", Native Americans said "Where do I get in line?"
Andrew Jackson is the Second Father of this Country. Will they ditch on the $20 him for looking like Trump? That would be as racist as it gets. But then we all knew that appeasement was the game.
So kind of off topic, but not really.
So last week --mere days before Charlottesville -- a frothing leftist like ARM and Inga named Clayton Carter deliberately murdered a Republican neighbor, George Jennings, who was a member of the local leadership of the Republican party.
He shot Jennings in the head in front of Jenning's wife, on Jenning's own lawn, then when Jennings was down on the ground, came up and shot him in the head again, delivering the fatal blow.
This Clayton Carter had a yard full of hand-lettered anti Trump signs.
So: ARM, your side just murdered someone, right? Using your standards? Don't you and Inga bear complete responsibility for the murder of George Jennings by a leftist?
Funny how Jenning's murder for political reasons is nowhere to be found on the news. Hey, if a leftist walks up and murders Republicans in cold blood--who cares, amiright? Certainly Inga and ARM don't care. No big deal, he had it coming to him. Right, Inga? You certainly had no problems with the Steve Scalise shooting, so since Clayton Carter succeeded in murdering a prominent Republican, you probably consider him a hero. Right?
Link for the story: Daily Mail.
Maybe, just maaaaaybe, some of our leftist righteous indignation can be spared to consider whether or not Republicans should be murdered in cold blood by Democrat activists.
Ha, who am I kidding? Just like Lakim Faust, a black man gunning down any white man he could see as an explicit racist attack; this story doesn't bother the left at all.
--Vance
Wendybar,
Perahaps you could provide us (and the press) w/ the state re antifa murders in the US?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html
Trump raises an issue I wondered about. How many, if any, individuals were there just to protest the removal of the General Lee statue but weren't part of the White Power brigade. Also, were the militia people separate from them as well?
There also had to be counterprotestors of good faith who weren't part of the Red Front antifa brigade.
When he said "Is it George Washington next?", Native Americans said "Where do I get in line?"
There ya go, Kirk! We should just give the whole country back to the Native Americans. Although their casinos might go bust without customers.
Left Bank of the Charles
But ole George did rebel (there is that word!) against the British, against his own country did he not? Help me here.
I think the alt-left should turn their dollar bills in.
I will drive to MLK Blvd, and all youse people can put your bills in my trunk.
Feel good about yourself! Get rid of your Washingtons!
The SPLC says Kessler is an Obama guy who helped organize the Occupy (bowel) Movement.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler
Left on Left violence that gets blamed on conservatives.
Again.
There will be no news at 11. Izvestia, bitches.
David Duke is back to praising his and your leader, Donald Trump.
David Duke
David Duke @DrDavidDuke
Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa
Trump was rejecting an "ends justify means" approach to reconciliation, that has characterized progressive liberalism for nearly a century.
For example, judge people by the "content of their character" (i.e. diversity), not the "color of their skin" (i.e. [class] diversity). Also, don't abort the baby because you have deemed her unworthy.
Left Bank supports slave owners.
I condemn Left Bank as insufficiently woke.
3rd Grade.....
Would the BLM sponsored murders of police count? I would think they are in alignment with the antifa, no?
Trump is right to separate the speech and assembly he respects and yet may disagree with personally, from the cause of and responsibility for the violence.
Lefties are in constant contact with David Duke whoever he might be. That and the Daily Stormer. Jeez. No wonder they are so fucked up and confused.
Birkel:
American conservatives are neither color nationalists nor color supremacists nor class diversitists. This is the domain of the DNC, progressive liberals, and exceptional individuals.
Mike,
Count them any way you want.
Why not toss in Ciraq data? Presumably all blacks are BLM.
In fact the folks who deny that black lives matter are a small minority. I guess that makes you special.
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Wendybar,
Perahaps you could provide us (and the press) w/ the state re antifa murders in the US?"
Dear ignoramus,
please check the comment posted right before yours.
Trump's statement is true. And as we all know, there is no quicker way to anger a leftist than by stating the truth.
UnknownInga82 believes unless Donald Trump silences David Duke despite the First Amendment, Donald Trump believes (in crazy town) whatever David Duke believes.
Therefore, Inga is guilty of the murder Vance mentions above.
"Presumably all blacks are BLM."
Except that nobody has said that except you.
The Southern Poverty Law Center confirms Kessler is an Obama guy.
Therefore, PB&J and Inga are responsible for the Charlottesville mayhem and death.
exile,
I know you're a gal. So it's understandable that ya don't understand the difference between compiled data and a anecdotes.
"Andrew Jackson is the Second Father of this Country. Will they ditch on the $20 him for looking like Trump?"
The second father? What the hell is that and why Jackson and not one of those who wrote the Constitution.
And FWIW, they want Jackson off the $20 because of his genocidal treatment of the Cherokee, not because of who he looks like.
I keep hearing regulars here bitch about lefties not posting in good faith, but somehow they never call out their own for over the top bullshit claims.
I have no doubt this post will yield the usual personal attacks. What a sad place this commenting section has become. Hypocrites and trolls of the right.
I suspect the Russian thing isn't going too well.
n.n.
The Left will stop using their tactics only when the pain associated with such tactics overwhelms the benefits derived. You're correct on the logic and I agree completely. But the Left means to exercise Power and Dominion over us both. That cannot stand.
Leftists must condemn the Obama supporter, Kessler, who organized the Charlottesville mayhem.
International socialists and National socialists deny humanity.
The SPLC says so.
Michelle Obama: "The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are"
WARNING: Trump's distract, distract, distract tactic in full fire and fury mode at today's presser.
Uhmmm. Wonder how Mueller is doing right now on that Russia stuff.
Wonder why Trump made first trip to Trump Tower since inauguration.
All the wonder'ings will be over pretty soon.
exile,
I don't think it's controversial to suggest that most black folks believe that black lives matter. In fact, most Americans believe this.
You, and many here (who deny that BLM) are a minority.
Sorry to break the news.
Trump is right. Again.
Yep. It was the leftists who were responsible for the violence, for the most part, just like they always are. You don't get to attack a group of people because they think things you disagree with.
History repeats itself as farce?
The Greensboro massacre is the term for an event which took place on November 3, 1979, when members of the Communist Workers' Party and others demonstrated in a Brown Lung in Textile Workers march in Greensboro, North Carolina, United States. The CWP, which had advocated that Klan members should be "physically beaten and chased out of town" [sound like Terry McCauliffe?], engaged in a shootout with members of the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party. Four members of the Communist Workers' Party, and one other individual were killed and eleven other demonstrators and a Klansman were wounded.
Two criminal trials of several Klan and ANP members were conducted: six men were prosecuted in a state criminal trial in 1980, five were charged with murder. All were acquitted by an all-white jury. A second, federal criminal civil rights trial in 1984 concluded with the acquittal of the nine defendants by an all-white jury.
Survivors filed a civil suit in 1980, led by the Christic Institute. The case in federal district court accused numerous police officers and four federal agents, as well as Klansmen and ANP members, of violating the civil rights of those killed, and it also charged the city with failure to protect the legal demonstration. The jury found the Klan/Nazi shooters liable for the death of Dr. Michael Nathan, the only non-CWP victim. The jury also held the Greensboro Police Department responsible for failing to do more to prevent the shootings, because it was told by an informant that the KKK planned violence. These groups were ordered to pay a total of $350,000 in damages. This is one of the few times in US history when "a jury held local police liable for cooperating with the Ku Klux Klan in a wrongful death."
It sounds good to me. Once again just saying what the idiot media are doing in a way that doesn't make it look like adult coverage.
Strictly speaking it's adult but just directed to soap opera adults.
UnknownInga14 wonders why Salon magazine has written an article saying the Russia story is bull shit.
That marks two Leftist Collectivist organizations trying to let you down gently.
http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/
@Left
Didn't Washington own slaves? Like Lee, he was a Virginian.
Jan Smuts went into rebellion against the British - he was a General in the Boer Army in the Boer War - nasty bit of war, that. He ended his career as Field Marshall in the British Army - one of the best they had.
When the Bundeswehr was established after WW II, they used officers from the old Wehrmacht - not from the SS, obviously, - but from the old-line military.
Lee and Jackson were soldiers on the wrong side. They weren't Nathan Bedford Forrest. Do we really want to re-litigate the whole Civil War? It wasn't very civil remember.
PB of the Third Grade Mind wrote: "I don't think it's controversial to suggest that most black folks believe that black lives matter. In fact, most Americans believe this."
I believe black lives matter, just as all lives matter. I don't believe in Black Lives Matter.
There's an obvious difference.
Black Lives Matter doesn't seem to give a shit about the black lives lost in the inner city every day.
"There's an obvious difference."
Not if you check w/ a dictionary.
Why did an Obama supporter organize a rally in Charlottesville?
What tactic is this, that Leftists would attack other Leftists?
The SPLC wants to know why an Obama guy who led the Occupy (bowel) Movement is inciting racial animosity.
Answer for this, Leftists.
UnknownInga14 wonders why Salon magazine has written an article saying the Russia story is bull shit.
I'm still waiting for the slightest shred of evidence that points in the general direction of the Russia story.
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Wendybar,
Perahaps you could provide us (and the press) w/ the state re antifa murders in the US?
Never said a word about them murdering...just that they are violent...Please keep up!!
BREAKING NEWS: Trump draws moral equivalence between neo-Nazis and counter-protesters.
The world is stunned. Trump's base celebrates.
Native Americans said "Where do I get in line?"
This will be difficult. "Native" Americans, or specifically nations and tribes, were genocidal, slavers, [class] diversists, and targets of the aforementioned, who discovered alliances of, if not principled alignment, then convenience, with alien people in order to preserve their communities, lives, and ambitions. It seems that native Americans today may face the same history, divisions, and dysfunctional convergence.
Since the organizer of the Charlottesville march was an Obama guy, I'm pretty sure any deaths that occurred cannot be logically blamed on anybody but the Left.
This was Left on Left violence.
The SPLC says so.
I just hope the SPLC doesn't incite people carrying Chick-Fil-A bags to shoot Leftists in response to their incitement of racial hostility.
"Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch... Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. "
They were statue and tiki torch enthusiasts. They just love statues so goddamm much!
Inga is now reduced to making up her own headlines.
BREAKING NEWS: Leftist says something idiotic, once again.
This will make the leftists really sad.
Looks like "Unite the Right" was set up and led by an Obama supporter and member of the occupy movement.
I guess this means Inca will have to call all Obama supporters and the occupy movement racists too.
Let's see, Unknown...neo-Nazis and Communist anarchists. They sound pretty equivalent to me!
Okay Wendybar,
How do the stats for antifa violence compare to:
http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/domestic-violence-statistics/
?
Oh great, if Donald Trump claims not to understand where the line is between Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on the one side and George Washington on the other, his protesters may not either. Here's a hint - Washington helped found the United States of America, he did not rebel against it.
You're just twisting everything the snowflakes are trying to say.
BREAKING NEWS:
International socialists killed a lot more people than National Socialists.
Reasonable people condemn both groups to the ash heap of history.
The MSM thinks International socialists are ok.
UnknownInga14 and 82 both agree.
BREAKING NEWS: Leftist says something idiotic, once again.
That's really not breaking news at all.
Trump's right. And he apparently was right about how to get North Korea to back down, so that's two wins in one week.
I'm a native American. I was born here.
Unknown said...
"BREAKING NEWS: Trump draws moral equivalence between neo-Nazis and counter-protesters.
The world is stunned. Trump's base celebrates"
They were funded and organized by the same people so yes they were all shitheads.
The neo-national socialists are color supremacists. The protesters are [class] diversitists and abortionists, too. Both groups deny individual dignity, and while the former has a history of denying intrinsic value, the latter have established it as a rite (i.e. Pro-Choice Church). Both groups are execrable and should not be normalized in a civilized society.
"Not if you check w/ a dictionary."
What do you know about dictionaries? You don't read.
BLM is a specific organization, dumbbell.
Brookzene is guilty of inciting racial hatred due to her support of Obama who was supported by Kessler who organized the Charlottesville mayhem.
The SPLC says so.
"Trump's right. And he apparently was right about how to get North Korea to back down, so that's two wins in one week."
Well let's find that 'Mission Accomplished' banner.
BREAKING NEWS: Leftists Outraged at Protest Organized by Leftists!
I do wonder when the SPLC is going to hide their findings about Kessler.
Screen caps are saved.
The Left fought the Left and somehow the MSM and Leftist Collectivists think the president and conservatives are to blame.
Odd logic.
Trump's right. And he apparently was right about how to get North Korea to back down, so that's two wins in one week.
Trump has had a couple of good weeks. I was a little concerned when he seemed to be going wobbly yesterday, but I guess Althouse was right.
"Washington helped found the United States of America, he did not rebel against it."
I think Trump's reference was not to the rebellion but to the ownership of slaves. And it is completely clear that Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves.
Many sides means - you mask wearing, 2x4 beat-down antifa fascists suck, too. But he cannot say that. hack-D press will not allow it.
But ole George did rebel (there is that word!) against the British, against his own country did he not? Help me here.
Yes, because the colonists rebelling against King George was very analogous to white power groups and neo-Nazis.
Help you out here? Okay, I doubt your much of a patriot if you can't tell the difference.
Etienne suggests: I think the alt-left should turn their dollar bills in.
And I'll take their twenties.
International socialists killed a lot more people than National Socialists.
Reasonable people condemn both groups to the ash heap of history.
The left-right paradigm is circumstantial. Both groups are left of center in America.
Still, there is only one group that is a substantial minority that collaborates with foreign and domestic special, peculiar, and sovereign interests in order to defeat the People and our Posterity. It's not the neo-national socialists, who have no credible standing in our nation.
"BLM is a specific organization, dumbbell."
Okay, so why don't you link to something that proves that BLM, means that non-black lives don't matter?
Or, did you makeup the idea that BLM doesn't believe that all lives matter?
"I believe black lives matter, just as all lives matter. I don't believe in Black Lives Matter.
There's an obvious difference."
"Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler
Leftist on Leftist violence is hard to blame on the president.
Take responsibility for your side, I believe was the message yesterday.
Brookzene supports a slave owner.
Brookzene is not yet fully WOKE.
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
"Well let's find that 'Mission Accomplished' banner"
Good thing Trump has been so much more competent than Mr. flexibility right? It is really nice to have a leader leading rather than bragging about how good a killer he is. At least most of us think so.
PB&J is not fully WOKE.
http://time.com/4400811/all-lives-matter/
I have been reliably informed by the MSM that All Lives Matter is bad.
It's bad marketing, this "Trump did not say enough" schtick. People say, "wha?" You can't invent outrage. There has to be something, anything, even a tiny thing. Trump said it was bad, and that was enough. He didn't say "bad bad bad bad white racist bad", and that was not required by normal people.
This is an outrage only to the bad marketeers in the MSM.
Bob Ellison:
I'm a native American. I was born here.
You ("our Posterity") were not only born here, but a natural citizen of the legal and administrative jurisdiction by virtue of your mother and father ("the People").
"I think Trump's reference was not to the rebellion but to the ownership of slaves. And it is completely clear that Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves."
Well, as our nation moves forward and improves Washington and Jefferson can be associated w/ that progression. The South's fuss was a regression.
Or, put in terms DJT would get: Southern fighters weren't heroes. In America, we like people that aren't losers.
The media is in "have you stopped beating your wife" mode. Act accordingly. If you accept the news from propagandists you only have yourself to blame.
Unfortunately, much of our leadership in this country cares more about appearances and the narrative than facts. Charlottesville was two different sets of fascists beating each other up. The local government and the state government seemingly wanted a riot for their own purposes, not particular concerned what the results of that riot would be. What we get is Trump is obviously a racist in bed with the Nazis and the KKK, despite the fact that he has a consistent history of condemning those groups and his daughter is married to a Jew, because the media has prejudged him as a racist because they hate him. It is so stupid that it hurts.
Anti-intellectualism makes a great deal of sense when the intellectuals are idiots.
"David Duke is back to praising his and your leader, Donald Trump."
Funny how you seem to spend a LOT more time and attention following and focusing on what David Duke says than we do.
Obsessively, even.
Birk's link:
"But nobody said those other lives don't matter; no one even said that black lives matter a tiny bit more. Pretending that the choice is binary—and then acting as if it's the other side that framed it that way—is a handy dodge but a dishonest one. If I say "Save the whales," it does not mean, "Screw the eagles.""
The conversation and environment have been intentionally poisoned. While in small doses this is survivable, with the present dosage (e.g. political, cultural, and press), a dysfunctional convergence seems inevitable.
@exiledonmainstreet says Inga is now reduced to making up her own headlines.
Not as idiotic as assuming every Unknown is Inga.
@Birkel,
"Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama."
Hitler knew well on how Lefties could be turned to the even Darker Side of the Force:
"[T]here is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it," said Hitler to Rauschning. "There is, above all, genuine revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will" (Quoting from Rauschning's The Voice of Destruction, pg. 131) (Peikoff, 221)."
PB&J supports a slave owner.
PB&J is not WOKE enough.
Get WOKE.
(There is no natural stopping point for the demands of the Leftist Collectivists beyond the complete exercise of Dominion over their countrymen. I resist.)
@althouse
Just luv your timely red meat posts knowing it is going to be a shitfest. Be wonderful to know what the ROI is.
I take back what I said about Trump. He's showing some backbone.
PB&J thinks All Lives Matter.
Burn the heretic.
"President Donald Trump on Tuesday said there were some "very fine people" marching among the Nazis, alt-right and white supremacists Saturday."
Yes, those are his people.
David Duke endorses Trump: absolute proof that Trump's an evil racist!
David Duke endorses Obama and Keith Ellison (Google it): who cares what an obvious asshole like Duke says?
where the line is between Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson on the one side and George Washington on the other, his protesters may not either. Here's a hint - Washington helped found the United States of America, he did not rebel against it.
So you are trying to have people believe that the mob that routinely shouts anti-U.S. chants is against these figures because they rebelled against the country? That would be news to them. They think they want their statues ripped down on grounds of racism.
"But nobody said those other lives don't matter; no one even said that black lives matter a tiny bit more. Pretending that the choice is binary—and then acting as if it's the other side that framed it that way—is a handy dodge but a dishonest one. If I say "Save the whales," it does not mean, "Screw the eagles.""
And yet a search of the phrase "all lives matter" will get you 228,000,000 Bing hits on why that phrase is racist, perilous and dangerous.
Seeing many sides is recognition of nuances, a trait associated with intelligence and an open-minded attitude. Wasn't Obama praised for that quality in his speeches?
I always enjoy UnknownInga14 more than UnknownInga82.
But UnknownInga51 will always be my favorite.
UnknownInga51 is completely WOKE.
Is the 2 minute hate for Kessler about to start?
Does an Obama supporter who Occupied Wall Street get stood up against the proverbial wall?
Is he a Bolshevik in good standing?
FWIW, they want Jackson off the $20 because of his genocidal treatment of the Cherokee, not because of who he looks like.
Actually some want Jackson off the $20 bill in order to replace him with some token woman.
Others wouldn't mind taking him off because he is considered to be one of the fathers of the Democrat Party.
The neo-national socialists exercised their first (licensed, no less) and second amendment rights. While the antifa fascists exercised their extralegal right to intimidate and suppress their competitors' civil rights. The Democratic establishment seems happy. Perhaps [class] diversity or denying individual dignity is the problem for the former, but the latter seems bent on establishing monopolies for their 0.1%, foreign and domestic.
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
"BLM is a specific organization, dumbbell."
"Okay, so why don't you link to something that proves that BLM, means that non-black lives don't matter?"
Cool video for you.
Have fun with that.
When the left has divided everyone into racial and fractional units: Blacks, Chicanos, BLTS...I mean LGBT ..or whatever all with manufactured grievances against White people, why are they surprised when "White" people decide to form their own grievance group and fight back. If Blacks can be Black and proud, well...so can "White" people.
The Left is playing with fire. This is not going to end well.
Trump yesterday: President of the US
Trump today: Confederate President
We're not going to get anywhere with reforming our public discourse in this country if we insist that our side (whichever or whatever side that is) is ALWAYS the innocent victim, and the other side is ALWAYS the evil instigator and perpetrator. I know it's fun to play the game that way in comment threads, but when we turn off our computers and come out of our basements or (in my case) attics, we need to recognize that the world depicted in the movies and comic books of our childhood -- where the good guys are always good and the bad guys (hiss! boo!) are always bad and ALWAYS LOSE -- isn't the world we live in.
Charlottesville ought to be easy for conservatives. Conservatives don't root for Nazis and Klansmen. Yes, some conservatives regard R.E. Lee as an honorable man, and many conservatives think that we should not trash our country's history, even the imperfect parts of it (and it's ALL imperfect), but no true conservative (OK, as in "no true Scotsman") would root for the guys carrying Nazi and Confederate flags whatever their ostensible cause. But honest liberals ought to oppose "counterprotesters" from Antifa and BLM and other groups they know are extremists, often violent extremists. But all too many conservatives end up defending the Nazi/KKK and all too many liberals end up defending BLM/Antifa. Whereas what decent people, right and left, should be saying is, to Hell with all of them!
Unknown said...
"President Donald Trump on Tuesday said there were some "very fine people" marching among the Nazis, alt-right and white supremacists Saturday."
Yes, those are his people.
He was talking about the occupy wall street members and organizers in the march.
Looks like the KKK is still full of democrats.
In fact, if we are going to get rid of evil organizations, it long past time to get rid of the Democrat Party, the party of slavery, the party of secession, the party of segregation, the party that even today is a plantation party.
Seeing many sides is recognition of nuances, a trait associated with intelligence and an open-minded attitude. Wasn't Obama praised for that quality in his speeches?
Yeah, but he didn't actually write those speeches. It took about three months to realize when the teleprompter wasn't there he couldn't make a coherent statement.
Ach,
Are you a woman?
Love love love my President.
Individual dignity precludes advocacy for [class] diversity and color supremacy, but not color blocs (e.g. little Mexico, China, etc.)
As for objections, take them to court. And, no, do not pull another one out of the twilight zone (a.k.a. penumbra). That's fringe and should be left there.
Unknown said...
"Trump yesterday: President of the US
Trump today: Confederate President"
Actually Obama people organized both "Unite the Right" and Antifa.
It must really suck to watch everything you believe in be based on lies. Especially when you are as stupid as Inga.
Salon just told you the Russian collusion story is bullshit. Obama organized the neo Nazi march. North Korea backed down.
I look forward to you ranting off and disappearing again.
Trump has used the term 'alt-left'. More convenient than trying to describe all the various factions, just as in the 'alt-right'.
When the left has divided everyone into racial and fractional units: Blacks, Chicanos, BLTS...I mean LGBT ..or whatever all with manufactured grievances against White people, why are they surprised when "White" people decide to form their own grievance group and fight back. If Blacks can be Black and proud, well...so can "White" people.
This is true. What we're seeing was inevitable, and it's going to get a lot worse. There's no way the leftists are smart enough to realize they're manufacturing white nationalists.
3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
Ach,
"Are you a woman?"
Depends on how I feel in the morning. Some days I like to use clean restrooms though I don't get the toilet paper on the floor.
Birk,
You're mixed up.
It's smart capitalists who want to be in a position w/o competitors so that they can dominate and maximize profits.
Sorta ironic that (according to you): Collective Leftist that wants free stuff for losers = Leftist that wants themselves to have dominion over all others [= mega capitalist.]
to Hell with all of them!
Well, perhaps tolerance at the fringe, but certainly not normalization. That said, there is a quantifiable order of risk based on which groups have real standing and leverage in our society, which does not conform to popular perceptions and labels marketed by the SPLC et al.
Even if the Party is not disbanded, the Democrats at the very least ought to apologize for its history.
When are you folks on the left here and around the country going to apologize for the Democrat Party's zealous support and promotion of slavery?
When are you going to apologize for your Democrat Party's support for secession and the destruction of the Union?
That's your party.
When are you going to apologize for your Democrat Party's advocacy for and implementation of segregation and Jim Crow? When are you going to apologize for your Democrat Party's treatment of blacks as third-class people -- no, worse than that, when are you going to apologize for your party's treatment of human beings like chattel?
That is on YOU. It is on you and YOUR Party. It's not hyperbole. It is true history. Your history.
I think Mr. Trump made many interesting points about political polarization in our country. Obviously, people on different sides have to debate and agitate without resorting to violence! And was Mr. Trump staking out the middle ground, where most Americans are, in spite of the heated rhetoric from the media and college students? Anyways, it looks like smart politics to me. Not like Reagan, because Reagan was exceptionally quick and charming, but more like Nixon.
"They think they want their statues ripped down on grounds of racism."
That would be a pretty wide swath of statues. Slave owners, Indian fighters, pioneers, theologians, authors, etc. The list would be pretty long. Let's not even start with the imperialists. Greeks, Romans?
Not sure what the point of all that would be though. No reminders of history they wish would not have happened would wipe out past sins or something?
Notice the careful placement of the quotation marks in Unknown's 4:57 comment: "marching among the Nazis" is not part of Trump's quoted words, though a careless reader might think he said that. What did he say? I'm guessing something about marching in favor of keeping the Lee statue, and I'm pretty sure there were people there who supported keeping the statue but stayed as far away from the Nazis as they could. I have read that thousands of other people were planning to go until they heard the Nazis were coming and changed their minds.
So how many people were on each side? How many of the pro-statue side were wearing (a) Confederate regalia, (b) Nazi regalia, (c) both, or (d) neither? How many anti-statue marchers were actually peaceful demonstrators (e), and how many were wearing masks and armed with bats and other weapons (f)? Estimates should have been in the first paragraph of any newspaper story, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, because journalists no longer even pretend to be interested in delivering the facts. I do note that the tiki-torch marchers the night before seemed to be in class (d), at least in the most widely copied picture.
@Achilles says I look forward to you ranting off and disappearing again.
Have a stiff shot of Russian vodka in front of Fox News and Breitbart to keep up the high level of ignorance.
You know, if we are going to be honest here, there is very, very little difference between the National Socialist Party's treatment of Jews and other undesirables as untermenschen (subhuman) and the Democrat Party's treatment of blacks as less than human, as having the status of a farm animal, of property.
"Some days I like to use clean restrooms"
Aren't those the ones w/ the long lines....because of sexism.....or is that because of the dude upstairs who makes gals sit to pee?
Unknown will easily lie about what someone says with false quotes.
Lying is what leftwing progs do best.
BREAKING NEWS: AFL-CIO Representatives Resign from Presidential Council on Manufacturing
August 15, 2017
Statement by AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka on his and Thea Lee’s resignation from President Trump’s council on manufacturing:
We cannot sit on a council for a President who tolerates bigotry and domestic terrorism. President Trump’s remarks today repudiate his forced remarks yesterday about the KKK and neo-Nazis. We must resign on behalf of America’s working people, who reject all notions of legitimacy of these bigoted groups.
It’s clear that President Trump’s Manufacturing Council was never an effective means for delivering real policy that lifts working families and his remarks today were the last straw. We joined this council with the intent to be a voice for working people and real hope that it would result in positive economic policy, but it has become yet another broken promise on the President’s record. From hollow councils to bad policy and embracing bigotry, the actions of this administration have consistently failed working people.
TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call ‘em.
Yes, those torch bearing Nazis were good boys. "Jews will not replace us!"
The Democrat Party -- the supporter, promoter, and cause of the greatest evils that this nation has ever known, from enslaving people to rounding up people in concentration camps to killing innocent babies (and now pushing for killing sick people).
And you folks on the left have the gall to even show yourself in public and to point fingers at people.
And was Mr. Trump staking out the middle ground, where most Americans are, in spite of the heated rhetoric from the media and college students?
Even Obama, despite notable differences in means, if not necessarily ends.
Obviously, people on different sides have to debate and agitate without resorting to violence!
This is absolutely critical and acknowledged in our First Amendment with good cause.
Given George Washington was a slave owner, why not take down every statue? Why not rename Washington State? Why not rename every city, street and institution with his name?
Blogger Unknown said...
@Achilles says I look forward to you ranting off and disappearing again.
"Have a stiff shot of Russian vodka in front of Fox News and Breitbart to keep up the high level of ignorance."
I kinda figured you went on alcoholic benders when you flounced out. Reality must be really painful for you. Have fun with 7.5 years of the Trump administration watching Obama and his people try to stay out of jail.
And by the way, what is with all the street signs we should be protesting? I mean Castro Blvd? (No wait, that one is ok. I meant Davis St or Bedford Place). And the Eisenhower corridor? Greatest war criminal on earth. (Channeling my inner Cook).
How about expunge every founding father who owned slaves? Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc... Fuck em all right?
And like the evildoers before you, you go around here wearing masks and hoods.
Well, "unknown" suits you -- all of you. Ultimately, you are non-entities, nobodies, unworthy of a name or identity -- a nothing.
How about expunge Harry S. Truman from everything? Biggest war criminal of all time right?
But Chairman Mao? More statues of him, please.
Have fun with 7.5 years of the Trump administration watching Obama and his people try to stay out of jail.
I don't see any chance Obama goes to jail, but there's a prosecution with Lois Lerner's name on it.
Alex:
How about expunge every founding father who owned slaves? Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc... Fuck em all right?
And anyone and everyone who privileged from what they founded.
It's quite the progressive... uh, slippery slope.
But Chairman Mao? More statues of him, please.
Heh heh. That's supposed to be MLK.
So I keep hearing Trump welcomed white supremacists... When did he ever shake hands with Richard Spencer?
I hear now Mark Levin has taken up the call.
ABOLISH AND OUTLAW THE DEMOCRAT PARTY NOW!
From the transcript of the news conference:
Trump: You take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
If I take a look at "the night before", I see a Nazi rally, complete with torches and chants of "blood and soil". Who other than a neo-Nazi would take part in such a thing?
Interesting that Communism is not cited as a 'hate movement' by the SPLC, despite killing 120 million people in the last 100 years.
Trumka is a criminal. He shouldn't have been on that council to start with.
"But Chairman Mao? More statues of him, please."
Don't worry, us thinkin' folks will save you backward losers and otherwise riled up DJT fans before we end up on the clearance rack, such that Chi Comms Gekko us and rename streets.
Blogger 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
"Some days I like to use clean restrooms"
"Aren't those the ones w/ the long lines....because of sexism.....or is that because of the dude upstairs who makes gals sit to pee?"
I don't have to sit. Just because I have man parts doesn't force me to go into the dirty bathrooms. Win win for me. So it depends on how clean the place is though they all look clean honestly.
Long lines only happen at places with lots of people. I don't get along well in loud crowded places.
Lydia... honestly how are they any different than the neo-Nazis of Skokie, IL in the 1980s? Did the country collapse back then because there wasn't antifa to 'bash the fash'? Nope, we all had a good laugh at them and everything was fine.
I wonder when the SPLC will be cited as a terrorist organization.
Good riddance to the AFL-CIO. They were an affirmative action placement in any event. What little access to power they had they just pissed away as they rode off on their high horse.
Trump is smashing another Overton Window.
The one about discussing leftist violence in the US.
And the more the press fights his statements, the more biased they look as other information trickles out. Look at what AA wrote in the previous post, about the Washington Posts credibility. Would she have written that a few years ago? The trick the press does is they smother a story by not talking about it. By not giving it any attention. Trump forces attention.
The moment Bill Maher discusses leftist violence is when the Overton window moves.
"When did he ever shake hands with Richard Spencer?"
Is this some sorta twist on the Kevin Bacon thing? I.e., find the commonalities?
http://www.newsweek.com/bannon-spencer-trump-alt-right-breitbart-infowars-yale-gottfried-oathkeepers-572585
Be honest:
How many of you had ever heard of the president's manufacturing council or whatever the group is that people are resigning from? I hadn't, though I'm not surprised it exists. I certainly knew there's a whole lot of that kind of stuff cluttering up the federal organizational charts.
And how many think this would be a good opportunity to cut the budget a teeny bit by abolishing the thing? Put me down as one.
Blogger Alex said...
"How about expunge every founding father who owned slaves? Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc... Fuck em all right?"
This is obviously the goal.
The progressives were the slave owners before. They don't care about racism or slavery. They care about power and that means limiting freedom.
Freedom is the constant to them and it is the enemy.
White AFL-CIO men voted Donald Trump in 2016 because of identity politics. If the left wants to ensure DJT wins those rust-belt states again in 2020, they will keep up the race war.
"I don't have to sit. Just because I have man parts doesn't force me to go into the dirty bathrooms."
Hopefully you lift the seat.
Good for him. Its probably already been mentioned but what would have happened if the left didnt show up on Saturday? The WNs would have had their speeches, done some cheering, probably some lame chants and then would have left at 3 pm when their permit was over. And that would have been the end except for the usual hand-wringing and navel-gazing. The left showed up looking for a fight and lo and behold they found one.
Well, i guess the WNs could have started fighting each other, but i doubt it.
but no true conservative (OK, as in "no true Scotsman") would root for the guys carrying Nazi and Confederate flags whatever their ostensible cause
100% absolutely agree. But a true conservative, and even the ACLU, will argue for his right to carry that flag and speak his hate-filled mind.
Without the International Socialists showing up to start violence, the couple of hundred National Socialist losers would have had their little sausage fest under the watchful eyes of the cops and gone home. It's basically Cedarford in physical form - if you ignore it, it loses all power.
I was taught in law school that "we defend our fundamental freedoms on the frontiers of scum" - we don't protect the haters' right to speech and assembly because we like them or their message - we do it to protect our own rights.
Wow... Imagine the sheer cost of renaming every town, street, county, state from 'unacceptable' figures. But that is far more noble than feeding the hungry.
Lydia
I saw video of that march with the tiki torches (LOL!! Tiki torches!!). Oh so scary? Chock full of symbols of course but not necessarily the ones you are thinking of or that most people think of. The torch marches of nationalists in Europe often do the same silly thing and often dressed in similar fashion. There was no KKK in Europe as you may have read.
Trump said, “before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.” That was
well after the Charlottesville fiasco and after ad libbing "many sides" and after refusing to answer direct questions from the White House press corps about the white supremacists.
That of course is just another example of his throw-away lies. This is the same liar who knew exactly who David Duke was in 1991 who agreed with George H.W. Bush's opposition to Duke and, in 2001, Trump said that Duke was a bigot, a racist and a problem - but he did not discourage Duke's support during this past election util uncomfortable questions were asked so he tossed out another throw-away lie. Early in the run-up to the election, the blatant support from extreme right-wingers was obvious on Twitter and Trump had a habit of re-tweeting their ugliest comments.
Steve Bannon has a job in the West Wing pushing sick Trade War philosophies simply because he is a dyed-in-the-wool alt-righter.
So another day, another lie and Althouse is probably right - he told lies about Charlottesville on both days.
Who other than a neo-Nazi would take part in such a thing? You mean this----> A rally protesting the removal of a statue of a Confederate General and renaming of parks?
People who object to the erasure of history?
People who feel that history has lessons to teach us and that erasing it doesn't help us learn?
People who are sick of being told they are racists because some other white people in the past owned slaves whether we were related to those slave owners or not?
People whose ancestors, rightly or wrongly fought in the Civil War?
People whose ancestors fought for the north but still think that it is a bullying thing to dismiss the past and change hundreds of years of AMERICAN history?
People who see that there is not going to be any end to the demands to force people to atone for the past deeds of strangers? What next?
People who decry the tyranny of the minority and of people who are not even affected by the statue, words, whatever?
Lots of other reasons besides Nazism to think that the removal of General Lee's statue is wrong.
Jesus but these lefties are all up on David Duke and Richard Spenser and the Daily Stormtrooper or whatever its called. No conservative refers to those people and Spenser was unheard of by anybody until very recently. But if we want guilt by association I suppose we could try and take the masks off the brave antifas and find out who they read, who they follow, who are their heroes. I have some guesses but I think we will have to wait for someone to get the idea of interviewing one or more of them and finding those things out. That could even be made into a business model, finding out about stuff like that and writing about it.
you think we're going to just allow people who believe that anyone who isnt white, straight, christian, or physically and mentally able should be eradicated from the earth to continue harassing our friends, our community, our comrades, and innocent and vulnerable people?
nope, not gonna happen.
it's better to fight than it is to do nothing at all.
as long as a fascist continues to breathe, there will never be true peace.
DBQ,
This is a silly POV to take: "People who object to the erasure of history?"
Somehow German history knows that the holocaust occurred, but Germans don't need statues of Hitler all over the place.
Sheesh.
"I don't have to sit. Just because I have man parts doesn't force me to go into the dirty bathrooms."
Hopefully you lift the seat.
It couldn't be any worse than the hovering women who piss all over the seats because they don't want to sit on pissy seats.
Did Obama "discourage" the followers of Louis Farrkahn for voting for him? How about the racist pastor of Obama's racist church? All those Arab activists who would love to kill every Jew in Israel? Nope - all solid members of Obama's rainbow coalition.
Hell, those Neo-Nazi losers might WANT to kill Jews, but it's Obama's buddies in Tehran who are working on the technology to actually do the deed. With $1.7 billion of US funding, in cash.
"you think we're going to just allow people who believe that anyone who isnt white, straight, christian, or physically and mentally able should be eradicated from the earth to continue harassing our friends, our community, our comrades, and innocent and vulnerable people?"
Call Guinness -- the record for World's Greatest Strawman has been broken!
The SPLC has identified the organizer of the Charlottesville mayhem as an Obama supporting, Wall Street Occupying Leftist.
But in some way this is grounds for criticizing the president and conservatives.
Leftism requires lying.
"It couldn't be any worse than the hovering women who piss all over the seats because they don't want to sit on pissy seats."
DBQ, I don't want to seem like I'm being too critical of you w/ repeated questioning of you.
But, I sorta think it's not so bad if some gals don't wanna sit on seats soaked in piss.
Sorry.
you think we're going to just allow people who believe that anyone who isnt white, straight, christian, or physically and mentally able should be eradicated from the earth to continue harassing our friends, our community, our comrades, and innocent and vulnerable people?
Insane.
vicari valdez
Who exactly has been harassing you? Are you a business owner who had their windows smashed in in Seattle? D.C.? That would qualify as harassment in my book.
The lesson of Robert E. Lee is that a good, capable, and honorable can, through his sense of what's right, find himself fighting for a cause that Grant referred to as "one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."
Leave his statue be. Perhaps someday lefties will grasp what words like "honor," "integrity," and "honesty" are all about. Some of the less self-deluded may even wonder whether their own causes are "one of the worst for which a people ever fought."
Well, I can dream, can't I?
I mean, once the seat is pissed on, what harm can come from a bit more piss.
Just sayin'
Gals gots ta hover. It seems.
Interesting that wearing a Che t-shirt doesn't mark you as supporter of evil.
But, I sorta think it's not so bad if some gals don't wanna sit on seats soaked in piss.
Yahbut, If everyone sat down on the toilet seat like civilized humans, there wouldn't BE piss all over the seats. Instead they try to hover about 8 to 12 inches above the seat....don't even lift it UP...and unlike guys have no aim or sense of direction and they therefore create the pissy mess that they are trying to avoid and then just leave it for someone else to later clean up.
Kind of like the leftists who trash the city to protest the state of the city.
3rdGrade PB...
The statues of Hitler were taken down after the war. The confederate statues have often stood for over a hundred years. Why the sudden umbrage about these structures that you have passed hundreds of times without noticing?
What will be the good thing that happens after they are all gone and the blank spaces remain? Will the little black children have fathers again? Will they read at grade level? What beautiful thing will have come to pass other than being able to say that you wanted them down and now they are gone?
By the way, I once saw a couple of far-more-convincing U.S. Nazis handing out 'literature' in front of the Arlington (VA) public library. This would have been the mid-'80s, I believe. They were in full SS-officer uniforms - the all-black ones. I shuddered, averted my eyes, and walked on by. I still think that was the right thing to do, and I'm pretty sure they would have rather had a confrontation of some sort.
I also used to park now and then in front of U.S. Nazi headquarters in another part of Arlington. It was the one place in the neighborhood you could absolutely count on finding a parking place when going to the Bombay Curry House around the corner. By the way, I'm pretty sure one of the people I had dinner with at the BCH way back then was YoungHegelian, whom I have known off and on for many years. Nazi HQ was as creepy as you would presume: they kept the lights on at night so you could see the two large oil paintings in the front room, Hitler on one side and (I imagine) George Lincoln Rockwell on the other. I never saw anyone inside, or going in or out. It was in a duplex, and I did a double-take once. The dentist in the other half, who (I'm guessing) was there before the Nazis moved in, had the kind of name that is Anglo-Saxon but is only one letter different from something stereotypically Jewish. My first thought was "That poor guy!" then "Oh, not X, Y, maybe not that bad", then "Yeah, that bad, Jewish or not". The Nazis moved out a few years later. When I saw they were gone, I wondered if that was a good sign (couldn't afford the rent and had to start working out of their mothers' basements) or a bad sign (built a brand-new 4-story building from donations) but in those pre-Internet days had no way to find out.
What is the point of these reminiscences? I'm pretty sure the best way to hurt a Nazi who is not doing anything criminal is to ignore him.
So I guess 3rdGrade is making a moral equivalence between Robert E. Lee and Hitler?
Mike,
Maybe the wrong move was not ditching the statues sooner.
Maybe, the South would be so backward to this day, if a strong, harsher cleaning out had been implemented from the start. Seems to have worked for Japan and Germany.
Better late than never.
"would be" should be "wouldn't be".
vicari valdez said...
you think we're going to just allow people who believe that anyone who isnt white, straight, christian, or physically and mentally able should be eradicated from the earth to continue harassing our friends, our community, our comrades, and innocent and vulnerable people?
nope, not gonna happen.
it's better to fight than it is to do nothing at all.
as long as a fascist continues to breathe, there will never be true peace.
This should be funny. I am actually laughing. That was good work.
But I don't think Vicari is smart enough to make a parody of this quality. I don't think she realizes that she just talked about killing off everyone with a position that may or may not exist and then trying to blanket apply that to everyone that disagrees with her politically.
I don't think she realizes this is exactly how true fascists operate and that makes her a fascist.
"I don't think she realizes this is exactly how true fascists operate and that makes her a fascist."
When Achilles says "Burn down D.C.! " as he is wont to do, I always laugh and then shake my head. Very sad.
re Big Mike @5:48 pm:
Ah, yes, the "good, capable, and honorable" Robert E. Lee, who wrote:
The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is Known & ordered by a wise & merciful Providence.
PB&J has yet to denounce the organizer of the Charlottesville mayhem. The SPLC identifies the man as a Leftist, Wall Street Occupying and Obama supporting jerk.
It only stands to reason Obama and PB&J support the International Socialists over the National Socialists.
Well at least we learned that Charlottesville boasts one the largest wineries in the US.
did Robert e. Lee advocate black genocide? Once again, you don't bring out the Hitler-card unless you really, really mean it.
Unknown said...
Michelle Obama: "The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are"
8/15/17, 4:25 PM
LMFAO! I love this! Are democrat party members even capable of self-awareness?
Lydia wants Abraham Lincoln statuary removed. Because Lydia is consistent.
Or Lydia knows not what Abraham Lincoln wrote and said.
Birk,
I only respond to your boring stuff after you repeat it 100x.
BTW, that purple elephant things was genius.
user: achilles is very good at constructing strawman arguments. i will only debate my actual position, not the one he is imposing on me. this goes for everyone else. i will no longer debate with those who post in bad faith.
Godfather: But all too many conservatives end up defending the Nazi/KKK...
That is utter bullshit.
But you're welcome to join the Decent Real Americans here who're are busy calling anybody who disagrees with them about the wisdom of removing the statues "Nazis". I know people who have honorably served this country who yet remain attached to Confederate symbols, including the flags. I'm sure you're a better man than they. Good luck with "reforming public discourse" by hysterically insisting that "all true conservatives" can see that those men are Nazis/KKK.
Knock yourself out, Mr. "you other people have got to stop thinking that you're 100% right about everything and the other side is wrong."
Alex argues for the pro side of slavery.
And, thinks he's winning.
This blog is cool!
The victors write the history. The south was actually less antisemitic than the North, did you know that? In fact General Grant issued an expulsion order against Jews(General Order #11) that had to be overridden by Lincoln.
The lesson of Robert E. Lee is that a good, capable, and honorable can, through his sense of what's right, find himself fighting for a cause that Grant referred to as "one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."
The problem with that kind of black and white thinking is the assumption everyone was fighting the same war. They weren't. There's no way you're going to raise an army to fight for slavery in a place where only 2% of people own slaves. Lee, like other non-slaveholding Virginians, were fighting for their country - prior to the civil war states were more than just the satrapies of the federal government they are today.
"user: achilles is very good at constructing strawman arguments. i will only debate my actual position, not the one he is imposing on me. this goes for everyone else. i will no longer debate with those who post in bad faith."
Better call Guinness about that irony record, too!
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