Notes Nicole Fabian-Weber:
Anyone who knows me... knows that I'm all for gay marriage and anything that will aid in tolerance; and am ardently against hatred, homophobia, and fear-mongering. But having Bert and Ernie marry one another is just plain stupid. They're puppets...
As if puppets don't have sexual feelings! That's pretty naive, Nicole. Haven't you seen
"Team America"?
Getting Sesame Street to teach acceptance of different people is a fine concept -- one the show has already demonstrated, and for that, I applaud them. But there doesn't need to be a wedding between two characters in order to do this. Do kids watching the show even know what marriage is? Would they think twice if they saw two men hugging, as opposed to two women? My guess is no. Gay weddings are better served on more high brow shows, where the audience will actually understand the message.
Jeez, Nicole. You're just discussing this subject deadly seriously. That's really bizarre! Who uses the expression "get gay married" and then doesn't try to be funny?
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85 comments:
Don't tell me this explains the orange goo! Did they go on an Alaskan cruise?
If puppets are getting married, then what is to stop clocks from marrying tables?!
(With a tip o' the hat to our Lt. Governor.)
I thought the "atheist concert" thing was the dumbest idea I'd hear this week.
But no.
Gay weddings are better served on more high brow shows, where the audience will actually understand the message.
HOWARD JOHNSON IS RIGHT!!! Spongebob and Patrick just need to do it and get it the hell over with.
The Simpsons is my kids' favorite cartoon. Have they covered that yet?
I always though Sesame Street was lame--too much singing and handholding.
Captain Kangaroo was OK in my book, but Jonny Quest was the best. Wasn't that sort of a guy marriage? Multi-culti family too.
I seem to remember two of the human characters got married (or maybe they were already married).
We have books like soandso has two moms and prince and prince already. These can be chosen by parents to read or not to read to their children.
Having best friends Bert and Ernie get "married" would be... just wrong. Bert and Ernie are plain old best friends. It's great when one's spouse is one's best friend, but all best friends were not meant to married to each other.
What if Bert and Ernie are brothers? Or first cousins? How do we really know???????
wv: cycia
"... against hatred, homophobia, and fear-mongering..." Yawn.
Furries are people too!
The Simpsons is my kids' favorite cartoon. Have they covered that yet?
As South Park ingeniously demonstrated, there's NOTHING The Simpsons haven't done.
You don't have to try to make "getting gay married" funny. It is funny. Unless you're a reality denier, that is.
Bert and Ernie should not get married because marriage is a homophobic patriarchal institution and queers shouldn't adopt the strictures of those who have oppressed and bullied and attacked them for decades when they can instead create loving and open and progressive new forms of family, kinship, affection, and support.
There must be various dissertations out there in gay studies departments around the country making the arguemnt that Ralph and Ed, Fred and Barney, Aykroyd and Belushi, George and Ira, Oscar and Hammerstein, Andy and Barney, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, Lewis and Martin, Amos and Andy, etc., etc. were all really gay lovers.
See, it is a consensus! Discuss!
As a fellow creature from Jim Henson's Creature Shop, I think this is a patently stupid idea. At its worst, it sexualizes and romanticizes what has always been a platonic friendship. If Bert and Ernie have to get married because they're such close friends, it won't be long until Big Bird has to come out as a pedophile.
How do you find time to read such tripe?
It's red meat for the people that think government should create fairness. You know, housing is a right, and social justice crowd.
linc,
Did you mean furries or furriers?
Is nobody going to point out the obvious irony of two gay muppets getting married while simultaneously having hands shoved all the way up their asses?
The first time I heard the suggestion that Bert and Ernie were gay it made me angry. Is there no such thing as a profound male friendship anymore? Is everything sexual?
It seems to me that there used to be the expectation that people would have primary friendships and lifelong relationships and loyalties that were profoundly important and had nothing to do with your spouse. Now? Now your spouse is your best friend and your best friend is your sex buddy.
If Sesame Street wants to do something that actually helps children learn about healthy relationships, they'd model (or continue to model) "best friends".
"get gay married" is funny.
But liberals trying to indoctrinate children, not so much.
Drudge has such a sad headline up.
A gay couple, together for 19 years, actually got married at some point. One of the men has AIDS. They live in San Francisco. And, one of the men comes from Australia.
Janet Nu-palitano (sp?) just dictated one of the men lost his appeal to stay in America. And, has to be deported back to Australia. Of all places.
You know? The gays have been written off by Obama ... because he figures either they won't vote at all. Or they'll vote with no place else to go. What a disgrace.
As to Bert and Ernie ... I think one of the TV preachers went over the top ... when he accused a purple stuffed toy of being gay.
How stupid can stupid go?
For a long time, the argument that gays are born gay was proven with, "I mean...who would CHOOSE a lifestyle that draws such ridicule and hatred?" Gosh, that was a pretty solid argument. But now? Now that gays are mainstream and every successful tv show has an adorable gay couple? Now that kids in middle school and high school think that homosexual relationships are just another choice, another way to experiment? NOW, homosexuality becomes a choice.
As for Bert and Ernie...c'mon. They are probably stored in a closet. Wouldn't it be cruel to out them?
Growing up, I always thought that Bert and Ernie were brothers (I don't know, I guess because they lived in the same house like siblings in my world did? I identified with them as kids, not grown ups who did things like get married and pay mortgages.). I never realized that they weren't until this "gay characters" thing came up a few years back.
Either way, this whole meme of them being gay is stupid. Why would we want to teach kids that two people, same or opposite sex, can't just be friends without it being sexual?
- Lyssa
Jim Henson died of AIDS. What a great show he invented. The green for the frog came from his mom's coat. That he cut up and stuffed into a character. Mom's coat made him green.
I still have all the cassettes of songs. Because back then my son was young. And, I'd stuff in one of the cassettes into the car's player ... to entertain him as we drove along.
I don't think my son ever asked "are we there, yet."
And, I kept all the cassettes. Couldn't part with them.
Wait... "get gay married"?
Would that be an acknowledgement that gay marriage isn't the same as real marriage?
The flight from reality in all things and at all times continues as the addiction of our times.
These deluded half serious folks are not able to find their way back to the real world.
I would definitely take away their AAA sanity Rating.
A Satire like The Onion has a comic effect. But these guys think the world of The Onion is what really exists. That is a mental illness.
"get gay married"
I assume this means Liza will sing at their wedding.
Proof that Bert and Ernie are gay.
Gay marriage = fairiage.
But that leaves out the girls, so never mind.
@Fred4Pres: Still LOL'ing over your first comment.
Carol, Jim Henson died of a particularly virulent strain of pneumonia. Not AIDS.
wv: sphedly - Bert and Ernie's new dog.
I'm with Lyssa - I always thought they were brothers when I was a kid. The idea that they might not be was very weird to me when someone suggested it. I guess I feel the same way about them that I did when Rowling said Dumbledore's gay - that it's unnecessary to assign them a sexual orientation and that they're essentially asexual. Perhaps they would take offense to that though. ;)
Hmmmm, maybe Oscar can grab him up four or five gals and have a polygamous marriage next. Young ones of course.
Jim Henson died from a streptococcal infection. Please, Carol.
I think children assume all characters in all children shows are part of a big extended family. Bert and Ernie are cousins.
I've always loved IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!"
my mom told me when I was young that you accept people, because they're nice. And, you don't "know" their sexuality ... any more than you know their belly buttons stick in or out.
It doesn't matter!
Personally, I prefer UNIONS. The way the French do it. Because, hilariously enough ... Now that people live together ... In Paris the UNIONS are chosen over the religous significance of "marriage" ... (Which involved the French state.)
Not so UNIONS! And, the topper is they work "both ways." Plenty of heterosexuals are choosing UNIONS. Fewer people choose marriage.
Marriage ... when the state gets involved ... is a game of semantics, anyway.
For couples who are committed? Sure. Joy. They get one date in a year ... where somebody gets flowers.
Oh. And, if you're really into celebrating, cake.
Bert and Ernie...gay? Never even thought of it.
But the dudes on American Pickers are Kevin Spacey gay.
I don't think Ernie and Bert are gay. Have you seen their apartment? So unfabulous.
Carol Herman wrote: Jim Henson died of AIDS.
I didn't know that-that's terrible, Carol. How did Jim Henson get AIDS? If we knew, maybe it could be a warning for teenagers, but I still don't think teaching little kids is inappropriate.
Do you?
Carol_Herman, Jim Henson did not die of AIDS. He died from untreated streptococcus pneumoniae. He was sick for a while, thought it was the flu, did not take any anti-biotic treatment, and by the time he went in to the hospital (he went in when he coughed up blood) it was too late. He died of lung abscesses and septic shock that same day.
Henson was married (albeit separated from his wife).
@Carol: oops I meant but I still don't think teaching little kids is appropriate.
Do you?
All this hand wringing over whether Bert and Ernie should get married! Has anybody thought to ask Bert and Ernie?
This puts those bathtub/rubber ducky scenes in a whole new light.
Dog wedding at the Wisconsin State Fair.
Let's stop pretending we care about line-drawing.
Wait- just the two of them? How polygamaphobic.
"There must be various dissertations out there in gay studies departments around the country making the arguemnt that Ralph and Ed, Fred and Barney, Aykroyd and Belushi, George and Ira, Oscar and Hammerstein, Andy and Barney, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, Lewis and Martin, Amos and Andy, etc., etc. were all really gay lovers."
Yes, but everyone knows Bert and Ernie are gay!
Oscar Wilde was as gay as a $3 bill. And, yes. He was married! Back in those days the British hung gays. So marriages predominated.
Still, it was his wife (and his children's) hearts that got broken.
Oscar Wilde said ... (Where meeting lovers was the reason to go to Italy) ... in London. You put a green carnation in your lapel. And, you strolled with your wife after dinner.
The "lord" (or earl) who invented the warfare rules" ... (shrews-bury?) Got ticked off at Oscar Wilde, whom he accused (at their social club), of buggering his son.
And, Wilde sued him in court. Hilarity did not pursue.
... And, then I read that Sir Arthur Canon Doyle, who couldn't come up with a second adventure for Sherlock Holmes. Was taken to a dinner party by his publisher. Where Oscar Wilde was also a guest. So that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was able to begin writing more Sherlock Holmes adventures.
You'll notice that Sherlock's not married. Watson supposedly was once. And, that's the way you'd fictionalize Oscar Wilde. And, push Doyle out of his writer's block.
Queens-berries.
...ensue.
Bob Wright and Mickey Kaus' diavlogs are exactly the grown-up answer to watching Bert & Ernie.
When I was a kid I had a Bert & Ernie poster in my room.
Admittedly, I had a Suzie Homemaker brownie oven too.
Anyway, takeaway: Bob and Mickey should get gay married on bloggingheads.
"Let's stop pretending we care about line-drawing."
Two dogs doesn't work for your point. A cat and a dog, well, that would be a good comparison.
Carol Herman said
Oscar Wilde was as gay as a $3 bill
Don't coy or PC Carol. It doesn't become you. The correct phrase (and you should rememeber) uses "queer" and not "gay": link.
This is a pretty hilarious look at indoctrination (I guess?) from the other side. Or maybe it's subversive commentary. Anyway, funny comic book from the 1950's.
@Carol_Herman: And you, a Mark Twain fangirl!
Carol_Herman said..."Jim Henson died of AIDS."
I know it's all the rage to think that Carol_Herman is the best thing that has happened to this blog since that parody-of-a-gay-man character that talks about excrement but please, you silly twat. Jim Henson died of a massive bacterial infection. Can you just stick to posting torrents of stupid, meaningless crap and try not to veer into the realm of lying? Thanks!
Gee. And, to think I've seen calendars that pictured a bride & groom photo of cats and dogs.
People thought they were cute.
Men probably didn't? Because Perelli just did photos of women in bikinis. Air brushed!
I like "gay." "Queer" is one of those words you use when you hear tripe. And, you don't want to say bull shit.
Gees...I read Carol's comment as
Personally, I prefer ONIONS.
Strangely, it still made sense...except I now have a major jones for French onion soup.
And here is gay Batman.
Or maybe constipated Batman.
@Caraol_Herman: Tripe is just offal.
"Anyone who knows me... knows that I'm all for gay marriage and anything that will aid in tolerance; "
Thats precisely the point, the fact that the gay community wants to hi-jack the term "marriage" is intolerant. Why? because it bestows the legitimacy of a hetrosexual union when in fact, it is NOT. There is nothing stopping states from giving gay couples the same legal rights as hetrosexual couples and i wish proponents of "gay marriage" would at least be honest.
The creator of Wonder Woman was really into bondage, apparently. And so was she!
There is a significant difference between normalization and tolerance, between respecting individual dignity and an invented phobia (Fear of the same, really?).
Both homosexuals and their advocates should consider what they are fighting for and why. They are alienating a lot of people, including a majority of liberals who oppose homosexual marriage, but support gay marriage -- semantic games have their consequences.
Does anyone oppose the rights of consenting adults who choose to engage in homosexual activities, including people who are otherwise heterosexual?
Even as a couplet, they are already able to protect their mutual interests. A civil union would go a long way to simplifying the construction of their contract.
So, why do they insist on defining themselves by their behavior and further seek to normalize it?
The left-wing ideologues should be up in arms. While they reject "creationist theory", that is an authoritarian directive, for the origin of life, they are more than happy to act as "creationists" to manipulate and direct the behavior of fully developed humans.
There exists an interesting juxtaposition between the order accepted by the "creationists" and "evolutionists". The former defer to God before they emerge from their mother's womb and the latter defer to mortal gods when they are fully developed and presumably independent.
Trapper Townshend,
I think you left the term "transgressive" out of your paen.
Now all the people who thought Bert and Ernie were blood relatives should have to accept an incestuous gay marriage. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I know it's all the rage to think that Carol_Herman is the best thing that has happened to this blog...
Paladian: I thought Carol was quirky and harmless until she started to defend Jeffs with some nonsense about community standards and 10 year olds having their periods, and how older men are more sexually satisfying...it was creepy. I do not think such musings cool. Adults having sex with 12 year olds is a crime for a reason. I find such comments objectionable a sign that Ms. Herman may be mentally ill. When called on it she went off on how fetuses masturbate and how I lie to my children about sex (?). Titus is just looking for attention. CH may not be well.
I like to joke too. Musing on Bert and Ernie being gay is funny because they are puppets. But throwing out there as fact that Jim Henson died of AIDS (without evidence) and then trying to justify this falsehood (which it is almost certainly is) with how Oscar Wilde was married and gay is pretty pathetic. I did not know Jim Henson, so I have to stake in defending his sexuality on a personal level, but there is no evidence Jim Henson was gay. He died of pnemonia becuase he failed to get treatment in time. Facts should matter.
The whole "all the great people in history were gay" thing has finally gone off the track.
Next thing you know, people will be speculating about Road Runner and Wile E.
Perhaps Sesame Street could declare Elmo an alien and deport him.
Wile E. Coyote's love of the Roadrunner was unrequited.
At its worst, it sexualizes and romanticizes what has always been a platonic friendship
Gays tried to do the same thing with Frodo and Sam.
Yes people, you CAN have an intimate relationship with another male without wanting to stick your dick up his ass.
Maybe thats why so many of us are against it.
It a perversion of male bonding.
Okay, nevermind. We now return you to PCBS Land...
Palladian: that parody-of-a-gay-man character that talks about excrement
You're talking about Titus? If so, on this we agree.
"Yes people, you CAN have an intimate relationship with another male without wanting to stick your dick up his ass..."
... but what fun would that be?
Our country is getting so screwed up.
Maybe all those old people from fifty years ago were right to complain about rock and roll music. I don't know. But we have gone so far into moral depravity that I hardly recognize our country anymore.
Palladian: ... but what fun would that be?
Well, to be fair, I've never had a female friend that didn't include benefits.
"Yes people, you CAN have an intimate relationship with another male without wanting to stick your dick up his ass..."
Palladian, I can confirm man can have an intimate relationship with a woman without sticking it in too (albeit sort of). If you go to Catholic high school and college, going farther than that sometimes requires alcohol.
Look there is no way Bert is gay. As you should all know he posts as Cedarford and there is no way he is gay.
Although I do believe his real name is Ernst Röhm.
Skyler -- I think you should kill everybody. Total war.
The rest of the world has reason to believe that we are indeed nuts.
Thanks to the LGBT crowd.
Idiots.
wv - pedst
@Palladian
"Yes people, you CAN have an intimate relationship with another male without wanting to stick your dick up his ass..."
... but what fun would that be?
Ahh yes, the fun of gay bowel syndrome beckons.
Bottom Line? What this is really about is theft of the true meaning of words for a political re-education of those that do not agree. To couch this in terms of tolerance or rights is nonsense.
Re Ms Herman--facts do not matter to her--she suffers from diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
But at least she is more entertaining than Jeremy or Ritmo (or whatever his current incarnation is)
she is rather like a case of herpes--the gift that keeps on giving
Bert & Ernie showed up in 1969. They were sharing a flat then, so they were at least 20 years old. That makes them at least 60 years old now. They probably have health insurance through the Center for Public Broadcasting. With the price of puppet maintenance going up faster than inflation every year, Bert & Ernie are going to be in a bind. If either of them gets unemployed, a civil union might make sense for them.
As for whether or not they're gay...well, they never seem to have girl friends...people are going to talk about that, aren't they?
What is with the obsession with making everything cater to homos?
Tickle me, Elmo.
wv: dange - No, Mr. Vice President. It's "dang".
And PBS already did something like this with the Arthur children's show and a spin off, Postcards from Buster. If they need to promote being nice and accepting of gay people they should also do the same thing for southern fundamentalist christians--maybe have add a christian family to the show and teach tolerance for abstinence, Christianity, believing in creationism, etc.
she is rather like a case of herpes--the gift that keeps on giving
herpatic legions?
_________
wv = ofushom: a little used Japanese language term meaning to obfuscate by telling the same story from different POVs.
Sesame Street's social goal was to educate urban/low income children, much like a head start in the home. Many of these children do not have married parents or their father residing in the home. The celebrity cameos have become too much, as it seems they are now aiming parents to watch the parodies.
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