"Nothing about us without us, and Greenland’s future is solely up to us. A majority does not want to become Americans, we do not want to be taken over by another country...."
Said Aaja Chemnitz, "a Greenlandic politician serving in the Danish Parliament," quoted in "Trump appoints Louisiana Gov. Jeff Landry as special envoy to Greenland/The Danish territory has long been in the president’s sights. Trump said the Republican governor “understands how essential Greenland is to our National Security" (WaPo).
From the text of the article: "Trump has said repeatedly that the United States will 'get' Greenland, casting it as a national security objective for the U.S. His administration also covets Greenland for its untapped rare earth metals, an industry dominated by China globally. In April, The Washington Post reported that the White House was preparing an estimate of what it would cost the federal government to control Greenland as a territory."
"How big is Greenland?" — that question came up in a novel I'm reading. A child asks the question of her father who was telling her a story about the Greenlandic ice sheet melting and flooding the world and had said "Imagine, a slab of ice the size of Greenland!" The father "had no idea," only that Greenland "was notorious for being smaller than it looked on a Mercator projection, but he felt sure it was large, given that its melting would cause global sea levels to rise by something like seven meters."
The WaPo article offers an answer to the question: Greenland is "around three times the size of Texas."

149 comments:
Trump will rename it 'Goldland'.
"...he felt sure it was large, given that its melting would cause global sea levels to rise by something like seven meters."..."
So, that's a 'given', huh? Not sure I would accept that, unless ice is stacked up on Greenland higher than Mt Everest.
"So, that's a 'given', huh? Not sure I would accept that...."
I was dubious too, but AI came up with 7 meters on its own. Seems far-fetched!
"Nothing about us without us, and Greenland’s future is solely up to us. A majority does not want to become Americans, we do not want to be taken over by another country...."
Said Aaja Chemnitz, "a Greenlandic politician serving in the Danish Parliament,
These people do not listen to themselves.
The people of Greenland are not particularly enamored of the Danish parliament.
Maps are notorious for overstating how big Greenland is. Its really a little bigger than the Sudan (800k vs.700K sq miles). We should buy the mineral rights. Let Dennmark keep the ice.
A large Greenland the size of a small Greenland?
"Greenland is not for sale and will not be for sale, so you can forget about your plans for Greenland to become part of the USA... A majority does not want to become Americans, we do not want to be taken over by another country...."
Says... "a Greenlandic politician serving in the Danish Parliament." "Serving"?
Greenland will eventually come under the sphere of influence of the US, China or Russia. Choose wisely.
Hard to get, I like that.
RCOCEAN II said...
Maps are notorious for overstating how big Greenland is. Its really a little bigger than the Sudan (800k vs.700K sq miles). We should buy the mineral rights. Let Dennmark keep the ice.
It would be an ideal place to put a missile defense system too.
WaPo article about Trump is either an outright lie, a smear, an exaggeration or some combination of all three.
The Vault Dweller said, "A large Greenland the size of a small Greenland?"
"How come Australia gets to be a continent and I don't!?!" - Greenland
The ice accumulates at a vigorous pace. The US Army Aircorps P38 lightnings which were crash landed in Greenland during WW2 were covered in 300 feet of ice when they were recovered several years ago.
If they don't want to be our friend that's their loss.
"Greenland’s future is solely up to us." Actually, no. If we want it, we'll take it, before the Russians or Chinese do. But lots of arrangements are possible short of complete sale. "We're not for sale" is a good opening bid.
The Greenland ice is deep. Really deep. The whole place is basically a bowl of ice.
That’s the way all negotiations begin…
Sebastian, +1
The issue with rare earth minerals, for US supply, is not finding them in the ground. The US has enormous known reserves. The issue is mining and refining, pollution and NIMBY. Looking at you, California.
Anyway, much better to let other places pollute themselves to dominate the market, so we can have our EVs and cellphones. Right?
My understanding is that even though Greenland is a somewhat independent part of the Kingdom of Denmark they are still getting significant payments from the mainland Danes. Our space base is located there under an agreement with the Kingdom of Denmark as well. So really, the sale is going to be negotiated with the Danes, not the Greenlanders, who I suspect would not be unhappy to get rid of the necessity to continue to paying Greenlanders welfare.
Greenland is way bigger than Rhode Island, but is not as big as Australia.
From the National Snow and Ice Data Center at University of Colorado:
"The Greenland Ice Sheet covers about 80 percent of the world's largest island, stretching across 1.7 million square kilometers (656,000 square miles)—an area about three times the size of Texas. At its thickest point, the Greenland Ice Sheet measures over 3 kilometers (1.9 miles) thick and contains about 2.9 million cubic kilometers (696,000 cubic miles) of ice."
Almost 700,000 cubic miles of ice in Greenland!
How about we just take the uninhabited part? If we are very very quiet, nobody will know.
The Danes were willing to sell the Virgin Islands to the U.S. for $25 million in 1917. We can give them the islands in exchange for Greenland. Even swap.
UK prime minister Harold Wilson discussed with President Johnson the possibility of Britain becoming America's 51st state in the 1960s. Maybe we can reopen those talks instead?
Spiros said...
The Danes were willing to sell the Virgin Islands to the U.S. for $25 million in 1917. We can give them the islands in exchange for Greenland. Even swap.
No, we'd come out ahead because we'd get USVI Delegate Stacy Plaskett out of the House!
The remains of the Kee Bird are still there. Darryl Greenamyer's folly.
"We're not for sale"
Everything is for sale.
The ideal place for a missile defense system is in orbit.
Fred is right. The US has enormous underexploited mineral resources. The problems are all with bureaucratic/regulatory/legal friction, that hampers all US economic activity. And it wont help to have Greenland to play with as you will just be importing the US sickness there.
We already maintain a base there, Pituffik Space Base, formerly known as Thule Air Base.
Trump has three more years.... be patient and he will get Greenland. Good things come to those that wait.
I will offer up the idea that the Trump administration showing a focus on Greenland that is somewhat vague about the methods of acquiring a US interest in Greenland may serve a purpose even if the US doesn't get that interest. It is a signal to other parties, like China, Russia, and maybe in the future India, that they risk damaging their relations with the US by pursuing their own interests in Greenland.
I would have put the Louisiana guy in charge of getting the Cajun ancestral homeland in Nova Scotia back.
The proud people are also known for a tradition of STDs owing to sexual promiscuity.
Cool. If Greenland is "around three times the size of Texas" then we can fit three times the current world population there in low-density housing with plenty of room left over.
I was dubious too, but AI came up with 7 meters on its own
No it didn't. It was fed a steady diet of non-factual information and regurgitated the figure for you. AI can do exactly zip on its own.
So, that's a 'given', huh? Not sure I would accept that, unless ice is stacked up on Greenland higher than Mt Everest.
You know, when Colbert (on his first episode of The Colbert Report) introduced the concept of "truthiness", it was meant as satire.
Just because your gut tells you a fact is incorrect, doesn't give you the right to ridicule it if you don't have any facts (other than "that can't be right") to demonstrate it is not true
hope I turned off italices
I agree with Wince. And I think Trump got what he really wanted, people to notice the Chinese and Russian influence in Greenland and other places. Greenland offers a lot of security for the US, particularly trade across the North Atlantic. The US gets that whether we have to take care of the people there or not, so long as Greenland (and/or Netherlands) doesn't sell out to the Chinese, as we are seeing in the Maldives (and UK).
Using Texas as a unit of area? Grok tells me that Greenland has an area of 8.29X10^81 square Planck lengths.
And I know Althouse hates when people do this ("get your own damn blog") but wtf is going on with you completely ignoring the batshit craziness of the Trump administration over the last week (e.g., the insane prime time speech last Wednesday, the non-compliance of the release of the Epstein files, censoring 60 minutes by talking Barri Weiss into refusing to air the CECOT story that was scheduled for yesterday).
Said Aaja Chemnitz, "a Greenlandic politician serving in the Danish Parliament,"
And we care about utterances from this random "Greenlandic politician" why?
No it didn't. It was fed a steady diet of non-factual information and regurgitated the figure for you. AI can do exactly zip on its own.
So Mike, provide us with the actual "facts". Maybe from your personal extensive survey of the Greenland ice sheet.
Using Biff’s value of 700,000 cubic miles of Greenland ice (from National Ice Data Center), converting that to a volume of water (about 640,000 cubic miles) and spreading that evenly over the reported 139 million square miles of the earth’s oceans, gives a thickness of 7.4 meters, so Althouse’s inquiry result checks out.
Using Biff’s value of 700,000 cubic miles of Greenland ice (from National Ice Data Center), converting that to a volume of water (about 640,000 cubic miles) and spreading that evenly over the reported 139 million square miles of the earth’s oceans, gives a thickness of 7.4 meters, so Althouse’s inquiry result checks out.
Gee, why couldn't Mike and Aggie do some simple math instead of making asses of themselves.
Hardin: "The proud people are also known for a tradition of STDs owing to sexual promiscuity."
So the left can resurrect their protest slogan from the 80s: "NO MORE TRUMP VIETNAMS!" CC, JSM
Melting Greenland would be more complicated than just the ice instantly turning into liquid water and sliding off the land into the sea, though, wouldn't it?
In fact, even that simple scenario isn't that simple. Does the land under all that ice still have lake beds and river valleys? Would some of the melt just stay there? Would some of the land turn into bogs and swamps? What about wells and aquifers?
Would the air get colder and more humid, creating weird weather counter-reactions?
As ice chunks or supercooled liquid water streams enter the sea, doesn't that lower the surface temperature, and therefore the air temperature?
How many of these climate wankers finish their screeds and then go to the university dining call and drink a soda with ice in it? They'd probably learn more by applying their five senses to that....CC, JSM
...dining hall....CC, JSM
"The ideal place for a missile defense system is in orbit."
Not really. Once the shooting started LEO would go all Kessler.
MJB Wolf: "If Greenland is "around three times the size of Texas" then we can fit three times the current world population there in low-density housing with plenty of room left over."
It could become the solution for all the migrants. Put up housing in national/ethnic blocks, ship in food. Don't even require work or anything. If you fuzzy wuzzies continue to have political problems, perhaps the problem was not with the regimes in your old countries...CC, JSM
Land cannot be owned.
It can only be defended. Ask any native American Indian.
If the US wants Greenland ... the US can take Greenland from whoever is currently inhabiting it. Those people will be free to stay under conditions we impose or are free to leave.
Let’s make some more rough estimates. How much energy would it take to melt one tenth of that ice? Using the rough calculated estimate for the ice being -20C, it would take 28 million TWh of energy. That amount of energy is twice the energy of all known fossil fuel reserves on Earth, and if you used all global electricity generation continuously, it would take a thousand years to melt that amount of ice (resulting in 2.4 feet of sea rise).
So I don’t think I’m going to worry about sea rise from the melting of Greenland ice due to fossil fuels in the near future.
How many of these climate wankers finish their screeds and then go to the university dining call and drink a soda with ice in it? They'd probably learn more by applying their five senses to that....CC, JSM
Gee, repeat an old Limbaugh meme which is just as stupid as when he first proposed it. Listen, dumbass, the ice in your drink is already in the liquid. The ice sheet in Greenland is on land.
And melting the ice would lead to the underlying ground expanding as the weight is released, as is happening in places like the Atlantic coast of Alaska where local sea levels are actually dropping as the inland glaciers melt.
I keep getting updates on the half dozen Canada provinces seceding from Ottawa and becoming more states. Greenland might want to just add their name to the list. I’ve heard Denmark can’t figure out how to do things as simple as delivering the mail…
Maybe the US should annex Denmark - the would solve the Greenland matter.
So Mike, provide us with the actual "facts". Maybe from your personal extensive survey of the Greenland ice sheet.
You, FF, making a request for facts? Did you fall on your head this weekend? Let me respond clearly and concisely: It is up to the person (or AI) making the outrageous claim to justify their claim with facts.
Saying "the sea will rise 7 meters" requires proof, not so much in the novel Althouse quoted but crediting the same figure to AI is amorphous bullshit. What authority is there that substantiates such a wild claim that the "ice covering Greenland" will raise the average sea level by 7 meters?
Doing absolutely no research other than the common "about a mile deep on average" thickness of their ice sheet and using this comments section alone I can refute the "fact" as presented by AI: the ice covering tiny Greenland with 2 meters cannot raise the oceans comprising much greater surface area by 7 meters.
If I have misstated the problem in mathematical form then show me how to do it correctly.
Do you mean the Arctic Ocean?
Focus. Focus. First Canada then Greenland.
How about we trade Rhode Island for Greenland to the Danes?
If I have misstated the problem in mathematical form then show me how to do it correctly.
Whiskeybum has already done the math. If you have alternative math, please show your work.
Outstanding!
FF says, "Gee, why couldn't Mike and Aggie do some simple math instead of making asses of themselves."
For those just joining, I asked for proof that the outrageous claim that "Greenland's ice sheet will raise oceans by 7 meters" and according to Freder that makes me "an ass" for saying it doesn't sound right and asking for proof.
Freder is in a name calling mood AND demanding facts!
When I had a moment, I did "the math" above. But too late! Someone has already provided "proof" for Freder, who true to leftists form, accepts that "proof" no questions asked, because it Freder's excuse to call me an ass.
Bad Freder! And you chose poorly as usual.
Freder: “ the ice in your drink is already in the liquid.”
No, it’s in the glass. Then the liquid is added. So I grant it is not an exact analogy. But you still get the sudden introduction of ice to liquid water.
Ref local sea levels lowering in Alaska: doesn’t that support my larger point that it’s all much more complicated than the climate hustlers make it out to be? CC, JSM
I am very pleased to announce he is still at it! Freder, the man who never backs up any of the crap he shovels here, demands proof dammit. And he'll take a bum's word for it over YOU! The only problem is I already planted the truth upthread and Freder just ignores it, and QUOTES me again.
What is up with that!
"Whiskeybum has already done the math."
He also did some interesting math at 10:44 AM.
Greenland is powned.
OK I'll use the "fact:" Whiskybum provided of
(a)139,000,000 sq-mi = surface of the ocean
It is a commonly accepted figure.
(b)86,000 sq-mi = Greenland
a/b = 139,000/86 = 1616.279
Perhaps you already see it. I gave it away up thread. There is a completely unfounded assertion in this post that a tiny land with 2 meters of ice could raise the oceans by 7 meters. Not just that. Raise the oceans, which are 1616 times as large as Greenland, by SEVEN METERS when Greenland's ice is only 2 meters thick right now.
How can anyone, even with Whiskybum's crazy calculations, think that works out to flooding the Earth?
Greenland’s total area is 2,166,086 square kilometers, however only 1,755,637 sq. km., or 81%. The important number is the volume of ice, which is estimated to be 2,850,000 cubic km. That’s the number that gives me pause, because dividing the volume by the area gives us a glacier thst averages 1.62 km high — that’s essentially one whole mile. And that’s obviously an average —.the center of Greenland is below sea level and the edge of the ice sheet will much shallower as it sits atop mountains.
Anyway, the surface area of the world’s oceans is estimated to be 361 million sq. km., so divide the estimated volume of ice in the Greenland ice sheet by the surface area of the ocean and one gets 7.9 meters. That’s greater than the predicted 7.4 meters, but of course ice is less dense than liquid water plus the sea will spread out and cover low-lying land areas, such as Martha’s Vinyard and the beach areas of Hawaii.
But let’s go back to the estimated volume of the Greenland ice sheet. How hot does it have to get to melt all that ice in less than a scale of thousands of years?
If it’s just a question of pride, there’s an easy workaround. We could sell them the United States, and then Greenland can have 51 states.
…my big cubes for scotch have lots of air bubbles. Then theres buried crevasses, rock, silt, the occasional mastodon…get started on displacement math and the extra water vs hydrologic cycle too…
By the way the math skills the left demonstrated here today are exactly like the COVID arguments here circa March 2020. Remember the insistence by them that a number that doubled once was by definition an "exponential increase"? Good times, man.
Mike, I don't understand why you're saying the thickness of Greenland's ice sheet is 2 meters. Am I misreading you?
Maybe, instead of the ocean rising, the sky is falling?
I think the melting of the ice would make Greenland tip over. Prove me wtong.
Mike, I typically learn something valuable from your posts, but you have picked up a bit of erroneous data in your calculations. The ice thickness on Greenland is more than two KILOMETERS thick in places, not two meters.
The calculations by others for the sea level rise (approximately 7 meters) are correct within the margin of error ... IF all of the ice did melt.
However, I strongly disagree with the alarmist projections that it is all going to melt. That assumes a static process with temperature as the only variable, when it clearly is not.
The average global temperature anomaly is believed to be less than two degrees since the fourth quarter of the 20th century. Greenland's glacier are not melting, but calving through mechanical stress. That said, low lying areas including Martha's Vineyard should be evacuated on the precautionary principle.
Better than selling Greenland to the US, arrange to transfer administration to Taiwan (for instance, maybe Singapore will do too). Then anything you want to do there will be governed by their laws, so you will actually be able to get things done.
Original Mike said...
Mike, I don't understand why you're saying the thickness of Greenland's ice sheet is 2 meters. Am I misreading you?
I'm being very generous in rounding to two. Look can we all at least agree with this? 2 < 7
Do we agree that statement is true? "Two is less than seven"
Mike (MJB Wolf)...
"about a mile deep on average" thickness of their ice sheet
The average, not median. Yes.
Now please show me how a small area with 2 meters of ice over it can cover the world with 7 meters of water. Water is a smaller volume than ice. You literally do not even need the areas of the relative things to prove this if you agree:
ocean > greenland
As Pillage Idiot asked, are you confusing meters and kilometers?
The constraint on the influence of Greenland ice on sea level rise is in evidence from the last interglacial about 126,000 years ago where nearly all of the Greenland ice melted.
During the Eemian period (the last interglacial, ~129,000-116,000 years ago), global sea levels were significantly higher than today, generally estimated to be 6 to 9 meters (20-30 feet) above present levels, driven by substantial melt from the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets, even with temperatures only slightly warmer than pre-industrial times, serving as a stark warning for future sea-level rise.
Given its far from benign treatment of the native population of Greenland, it’s not at all clear that Denmark deserves to claim Greenland. From 1965 to 1975 Danish doctors, at the behest of the Danish government, engaged in a program of sterilization of Inuit women, including girls as young as 12 and 13, without their informed consent (and without the informed consent of their parents in the case of minors). Although the program tapered off after 1975, there is evidence that some doctors continued the practice intonhd 1990s.
Nor has Denmark put much effort into infrastructure. There are towns on the southern edge of Greenland tgst are inhabited year round, especially on the western side,, but no roads connect any of those towns, not even roads that would be seasonal (i.e., closed in winter). Getting from town to town requires a boat in summer and snowmobile in winter.
If Denmark actually cared about Greenland they’d do better.
2 "=" 7, mathematically and socially.
the Danish government, engaged in a program of sterilization of Inuit women
Planned parenthood, one-child with State's Choice, selective-child through religious normalization. Transhumane.
"The constraint on the influence of Greenland ice on sea level rise is in evidence from the last interglacial about 126,000 years ago where nearly all of the Greenland ice melted."
Agreed. However, mother nature did that all on her lonesome. A second point to address is whether mankind can do it. Whickeybum's 10:44 post suggests the answer is no.
"Melting Greenland would be more complicated than just the ice instantly turning into liquid water and sliding off the land into the sea, though, wouldn't it?"
Yes. The 7.3 meters calculation assumes that the oceans keep their existing boundaries, while they would actually move inland (Escape From the Sea Of New York!). But if you assume the water covers the entire Earth's surface, of 510 million square kilometers, that only brings it down to 5.7 meters. So, somewhere between 6 and 7 meters.
Mike, where are you getting "two meters" from? The Greenland ice sheet is kilometers thick.
Original Mike said...
As Pillage Idiot asked, are you confusing meters and kilometers?
It would explain a lot if I was. Maybe I am. Nice persistence you demonstrate there O Mike.
I'm temporarily stepping away from the practice of math, although I like it a lot there are other things I can and probably should be doing. Just put on my gravestone, "Well at least he showed his work."
It is an average of 1.67 km thick and over 3 km thick at its maximum
- Wikipedia
"Nice persistence you demonstrate there O Mike."
Well, I'm sorry. I was just trying to understand you. And trying to be polite.
This actually brings to mind my thoughts about Land Acknowledgements. Rather than prostrating ourselves and breast-beating about our regrets, we should just invade formally, declare victory, secure surrenders, abolish the reservations, and say 'screw it'.
It is almost 2,900 kilometres long in a north–south direction, with a maximum width of 1,100 kilometres
- Wikipedia
7m seems like a reasonable estimate.
But I’m not scared:
From Google, “Yes, for the vast majority of its history, Earth has been in a warm, "greenhouse" state with little to no permanent ice, meaning it has been largely ice-free, with ice caps and glaciers being temporary features during rare "icehouse" periods. The planet's climate naturally cycles, but Earth generally favors warm, high-CO2 conditions, making our current cooler, ice-covered state quite unusual in geological time.”
Ah, the good old days, when dinosaurs frolicked in the Arctic and lush vegetation covered Saudi Arabia and Texas! (How do you think all that oil got there?) Always summertime, and the livin’s easy. A warmer earth will be a better earth. Unfortunately, I may not live to see it, but I envy you youngsters!
7 meters of sea level rise will put the Bay right on the hill behind our house. I can put my dock there instead of driving 2 minutes to the harbor.
Limited blogger said...
“Trump will rename it 'Goldland'.”
Northeast America. It is both the northernmost and easternmost land mass of the Americas.
I think FLC is on the right track here. Greenland's population density is way too low to give Greenlanders effective control over that island. There are only .14 persons per square kilometer, and that's based solely on the 20% of the island that's NOT an ice sheet. By comparison, population density in the U.S. (even taking into account all that vacant land in the West) is 38 persons per square km. If America decides that controlling Greenland really is necessary for our national security, then I'm not sure how much weight we could give to the desire of the 55,000 people who live there to be treated as a sovereign territory. But this is purely hypothetical because the U.S. is nowhere close to reaching a national consensus that Greenland MUST become a U.S. territory or state. Instead, this is just Trump's effort to move the Overton Window in the direction of entertaining the idea of a U.S.-controlled Greenland that may become a reality in 20-30 years, preferably through negotiated treaty arrangements.
Why stop at Greenland? I say we get the Faroes, Svalbard, Bear Island, and maybe a couple of others. Along with the Northwest territory in Canada, so we can have a large presence on the Arctic ocean.
If the Danes want it back, send over a few Vikings that fight better than the ones in Minnesota.
That being said, if I was a Greenlander, I would look at Danish control with horror... but the idea of being controlled by a Democrat run DC would be enough to run screaming.
Freder Asserted.
" the Atlantic coast of Alaska "
Wanna explain that.
Greenland asked…
"How come Australia gets to be a continent and I don't!?!”
In school we were told instructed that Australia is (by far) the largest landmass on the Australian plate. Greenland is part of the North American plate.
the Danish government, engaged in a program of sterilization of Inuit women
A wicked solution. #NoJudgment #NoLabels #HateLovesAbortion
“Northeast America. It is both the northernmost and easternmost land mass of the Americas.”
To clarify: completly on the North American plate. Iceland is split down the middle between the NA plate and the Eurasian plate.
Exactly. I commend that. You had already earned my respect here. I'm not emotional about Greenland or facts. And I welcome the correct math. Facts are facts. And using meters or kilometers can be tricky.
If something caused the ice in Greenland to melt, wouldn't it be likely there'd be melting in Antarctica, too? There seems to be a lot of ice there.
And trying to be polite.
Thank you. I as well.
Greenlands ice cap is actually cooling instead of melting.
The central point to remember is that the climate that climate change adherents want to maintain is neither sustainable nor normal for the Earth. If the current climate is not the climate preferred by Mother Earth, I don't think we can force her to stay with it. Every man who shares a thermostat with one or more women knows this. It's telling that some "experts" think we can force a climate on this solar/global system.
john mosby said...
“[Greenland] could become the solution for all the migrants. Put up housing in national/ethnic blocks, ship in food.”
ICE should send them to ice. From a marketing perspective, we can call it the Glacier Bay Facility.
Freder, the man who never backs up any of the crap he shovels here, demands proof dammit. And he'll take a bum's word for it over YOU!
I did provide the Wikipedia article which links to original sources. When have you ever provided a link to any of the shit you spew?
Wanna explain that.
Explain what? Sorry, I misspoke. Alaska, of course borders the Pacific. But, you have to be a real dumbass to not realize it was a misstatement (even if I did, in my haste, name the wrong ocean, you should have been able to figure out what I meant from the context).
Joe Bar said...
“The remains of the Kee Bird are still there. Darryl Greenamyer's folly.”
In 1942, a P-38 later named “Glacier Girl” and 5 other planes landed on the ice and were buried under the snow. Five decades later, Glacier Girl was dug out of 260 feet of snow and restored. At least one other plane of the squadron was brought up a few decades later under 340 feet of snow.
Google Search Assist doesn’t want to estimate how many planes are still buried up there.
Shorter Freder: It's your fault, Rusty.
I've always maintained that we shouldn't deport illegals outside of the country.
Instead, just drop them off on Attu and Kiska, and declare the waters around the islands to be free fire zones for the Navy. Illegals can either self deport or go to Attu and Kiska.
Think Britain and the Australia strategy. And hey, if the illegals set up a thriving society after 100 years and we assimilate it, great! If not: they aren't bothering anyone else up there.
Using Biff’s value of 700,000 cubic miles of Greenland ice, and ignoring the fact that a lot of it is colder than "just barely freezing", the amount of energy needed to melt it is 894,000 EJ (1 EJ = 10¹⁸ J)
Global annual primary energy consumption (2023–2025) ≈ 600 EJ/year.
So all we need to melt that ice is 1,500 YEARS of current global energy use
Or, we could "just" use the sun, right?
That's ~1/6 the total isolation of the Earth for a year.
Now, the surface area of the Earth is 510 million km^2. Greenland’s total area is 2,166,086 km^2. Which makes Greenland less than 1/235th the Earth's surface.
So, put Greenland on the Equator, and put a big enough magnifying glass over it such that you can concentrate 40x the sunlight on it, and you could melt the ice.
Other than that? It's all mental masturbation
(Oh, and 1: any place where Greenland is below sea level, the water's going there, 2: Icebergs float because they're less dense than water. Any ice that's floating on the water will not raise the water level when it melts)
Anything else I can help the scientifically retarded with?
I showed my work, asshole. It was wrong mathematically but I showed my work. Other's pointed out where the error was. I have a decades long record of being mostly right and making occasional errors. I don't claim to be infallible.
But my original statement still stands unassailable: the one who makes the claim should back up their assertion with facts. And my other opinion, AI is a shit-soaked parlor trick at this point not something that can "come up with" an answer on its own.
If Denmark has to start defending itself, it will be much easier without having to include Greenland.
How big is Greenland?
On a map it's three apples high.
It’s worth noting that the ancestors of the modern Inuit migrated to Greenland after the Vikings did.
Greenland is roughly the same size as the Louisiana Purchase.
Thus, Landry. Makes sense to me.
Watching a man dig a hole can be surprisingly fascinating.
"decades long record of being mostly right and making occasional errors" would be a great masthead motto.
"In school we were told instructed that Australia is (by far) the largest landmass on the Australian plate. Greenland is part of the North American plate."
Except that the decision to call Australia a continent and Greenland an island was made well before the theory of plate tectonics was even proposed, let alone widely accepted. But yeah, go to stupid school, learn stupid facts.
Vance said...
“I've always maintained that we shouldn't deport illegals outside of the country.”
That puts the Marshall Islands in play.
Given its far from benign treatment of the native population of Greenland, it’s not at all clear that Denmark deserves to claim Greenland.
If that is your standard, then it is not at all clear that the nations of the Americas and Australia (and many other countries) "deserve" to claim their countries.
You might also want to check the number of villages and even good size towns in Alaska that are reachable only by air or boat.
Shorter Freder: It's your fault, Rusty.
For being such a smartass asshole, absolutely.
Think Britain and the Australia strategy.
The strategy was to use the involuntary prison labor as a slave labor source for voluntary colonists (they tried the same thing in the Americas. but importing slaves from Africa was less hassle plus their "sentences" would never end and even continue for their descendant's lives as well (even if children were the result of enslaved women being raped by their owners).
I don't think banishing a bunch of illegals to a tropical paradise like the Marshalls is really a deterrent.... That said, I'm open to government subsidies to move as many leftists as possible to the Marshalls or Greenland or various remote alaskan villages where we shove them out the back of a C-141 with a parachute and a backpack of MRE's.
So was georgia anothet debtors colony
Freder, you've cornered the market on smartass asshole. You shouldn't be shocked when people return serve.
Freder, you've cornered the market on smartass asshole.
Unfortunately, no. Being a smartass asshole is a market you just can't corner. Being a smartass asshole is my raison d'etre on this site. I once claimed that my job here is to poop in your punchbowl, and I stand by that.
Vance said...
“I don't think banishing a bunch of illegals to a tropical paradise like the Marshalls is really a deterrent.”
Plus, protest songs would pop upon the internet with lyrics like:
They’re eating the turtles,
They’re eating the crabs,
Landry was in the headlines in the U.S. a couple months ago, because he intervened in the firing of a college football coach and athletic direction at Louisiana's largest state university. The whole situation was highly unorthodox, because governors don't typically get involved in these type of issues (at least not directly and visibly).
The entire situation ended up being a complete clown show, with Landry attempting to weasel out of honoring the coach's contract through a series of poorly considered mechanisms. In the end, the governor capitulated -- probably because people around him and major donors told him gently that he was creating more problems for the school and the state, along with potential liability issues. It was like Trump's situation in miniature.
It is not an accident that Landry is the governor of a state that has one of the worst educational systems in the entire country with one of the nation's lowest literacy rates. Sometimes people surprise you on the upside when they far exceeded low expectations. With these Trump people, the surprise is almost always well below the lowest possible standard. These people are not just dirty and corrupt, but many are incredibly stupid.
At a certain level, absurdly low educational standards become a national security issue. We really are seeing it in evidence right now with Trump's Republican Party.
"I once claimed that my job here is to poop in your punchbowl, and I stand by that."
I'm pretty sure most people here enjoy giving you shit.
Why would the U.S. buy Greenland? If it’s a strategic place in the U.S. Cold War with China, then just take it.
About five years ago I became fascinated by Greenland. Read several books, watched a few documentaries, even learned a little Greenlandic (which is the most difficult language on the planet). Imannguaq kalaallisut oqaluttarpunga.
One book I read (which is largely about climate change) specifically mentions that if the Greenlandic ice sheet melted it would raise ocean levels by five feet. About one and a half meters.
Greenlanders clearly don't want their nation to be owned by the United States. But that's not really what Trump is trying to achieve. He wants Arctic and near-Arctic nations to step up and maintain security. Which primarily means keeping on eye on China and to prevent them from expanding into the Arctic.
The Vault Dweller (above) gets it.
Greenlanders clearly don't want their nation to be owned by the United States. But that's not really what Trump is trying to achieve. He wants Arctic and near-Arctic nations to step up and maintain security.
You do realize that Norway and Denmark have been members of NATO since almost day one (I only say "almost" because I am too lazy to check when exactly they joined NATO), and now that includes Finland and Sweden, two traditionally neutral countries--heck, Sweden even managed to remain neutral in WWII. As such, an attack against them (including Greenland) is an attack on NATO, including the U.S. and Canada. What else do you want?
"I don't think banishing a bunch of illegals to a tropical paradise like the Marshalls is really a deterrent...."
I'm betting the illegals would take care of the "paradise" part of it pretty quickly.
Jupiter said...
"Except that the decision to call Australia a continent and Greenland an island was made well before the theory of plate tectonics was even proposed, let alone widely accepted. But yeah, go to stupid school, learn stupid facts.”
UC Santa Barbara replied…
“It turns out that there are no official conditions that each continent has to meet in order to be considered a continent … However, there are several largely accepted factors that classify different regions of the world as continents. These factors include tectonic independence from other continents,unique flora and fauna, cultural uniqueness, and local belief in continental status.
“Looking at Australia and Greenland, Australia meets several of these conditions. Australia rests on its own tectonic plate called the Australian Plate. It certainly has its own unique flora and fauna, with native animals like kangaroos, wombats, and Tasmanian Devils unlike any others in the world. Australia’s historic aboriginal culture is also somewhat unique.
“Greenland, on the other hand, sits on the North American tectonic plate. It is not geologically separate from Canada, the United States, and Mexico. Although Greenland has fifteen unique species of plants, its fauna, such as reindeer, polar bears, and arctic foxes, can also be found elsewhere, such as in Canada. While Greenland does have its own culture, it is considered part of the larger North American arctic culture.”
https://legacy.geog.ucsb.edu/why-greenland-is-an-island-and-australia-is-a-continent/
Greenland is an island and Australia is a continent not because some doctor (of geography) assigned them that status at “birth” (ie, included on the maps), but because they have a collection of properties that make them so.
@Freder (1:48), if you were to pull your head out of your rectum to do some basic research you’d see that 20% of municipalities in Alaska are connected by road. In Greenland the number is zero. That is 0.00000 to ss many digits as you care to calculate.
May I take it that you are on board with the non-consensual sterilization of the Inuit?
Denmark failed to meet its NATO required defense spending over most of the last decade. Nobody likes a mooch.
https://www.nato.int/content/dam/nato/webready/documents/finance/def-exp-2025-en.pdf
How to explain that Greenlands ice cap is , in reality, not melting but getting bigger.
Greenland ain't very big. About 57,000 people. I wonder how many of those people Ms. Chemnitz asked about whether they were interested. And whether they were informed about how much might be on the table.
Freder--Althouse has been ignoring a hell of a lot of batshit craziness for a very long time.
For example, you're still here.
"...the Atlantic coast of Alaska..."?
Forget it, he's rolling.
A lot of back and forth over a hypothetical. Interesting.
"Trump has three more years.... be patient...Good things come to those that wait."
Yes! Only three years until the pestilence on the earth Donald Trump will be out of the White House, (if not sooner, as his cognitive faculties continue to rot).
Freder Frederson said...
"Shorter Freder: It's your fault, Rusty.
For being such a smartass asshole, absolutely."
I've never denied being either, but it's still not my fault you're stupid.
Greenland is about the size of the continent of Africa.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=map+of+greenland+next+to+africa&t=osx&ia=images&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fjakubmarian.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Fgreenland.jpg
"Greenland is about the size of the continent of Africa."
LOL. No.
AI?
They didn't scale Greenland properly. They just translated its mercator projection silhouette onto Africa.
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