The hand-raising at the June 27, 2019 Democratic candidates debate is a powerful visual retort, but when I click the fact-check icon at Franken's post, X's own AI says:lol
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) October 2, 2025
pic.twitter.com/G4GSTfijFR
• Al Franken's post critiques Vice President JD Vance's recent claim during a 2025 government shutdown debate that Democrats seek to provide health benefits to undocumented immigrants, framing it as either deliberate falsehood or profound misunderstanding.
• Vance's statement targets a Democratic funding proposal to reimburse states for emergency Medicaid services to "lawfully present" immigrants, such as refugees and asylees, but federal law explicitly bars undocumented individuals from enrolling in such programs.
• Independent fact-checks, including from FactCheck.org and The New York Times, describe the Republican portrayal as misleading, as it exaggerates limited emergency reimbursements into broad taxpayer-funded coverage for all
Posts
145 comments:
how about illegal aliens that "claim" that they are refugees?
"Democrats seek to provide health benefits to undocumented immigrants"?
Of course they do - now, they just don't want to say so. One of those 80/20 things, you know.
The video proves it. Powerfully so indeed.
how does California Medicare work with undocumented people?
https://kffhealthnews.org/morning-breakout/all-undocumented-immigrants-now-qualify-for-medi-cal-in-california/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fed-audit-emergency-medicaid-undercut-dems-illegal-immigrant-health-coverage
California, for example, was subject to a 2024 federal audit from the Office of the Inspector General for "improperly" requesting that the federal government cover $52.7 million in capitation costs for those with "unsatisfactory immigration status."
Libtard lowlife Senator Franken from the scumbag party rises from the dead to vomit on himself. All the ghouls are emerging from the graveyard to fight the forces of Light.
It’s all about Biden extending reimbursement to illegal immigrants his DHS granted using “Temporary Protected Status” as a fig leaf to reimburse states that openly promote their “free” healthcare for undocumented people. Also, as anyone who lived in CA can tell you the federal reimbursement just for emergency medical care for illegals runs $100s of billions, because all their care is emergency room visits and Uncle Sam will (wink wink) cover the grill.
Watch Vance yourself and see how many times he mentions TPS being the fig leaf Schumer is hiding behind.
One more fig leaf? How much work is the word “independent” doing in the last Grok statement! Remember Grok is fed a lot of “mainstream” media that pretends to independence.
Honest question:
Hypothetical--A pregnant young woman appears at the Emergency Room door of a hospital. Labor has clearly begun, and the birth is imminent. The woman speaks no English, and one can infer she is here illegally. I believe the hospital has a legal (and clearly a moral) obligation to take her in and assist in the birth. This will cost the hospital, at a minimum, thousands of dollars. Does the hospital ask Medicaid for re-imbursement ? If not, who pays ?; if so, is this a case of Medicaid for illegals ? Is that bad ?
… but federal law explicitly bars undocumented individuals from enrolling in such programs.
@Althouse, since when did “law explicitly bars” ever stop Democrats, or even slow them down? And if free healthcare for illegal immigrants isn’t what they want to spend the money on, then what do they want a trillion dollars for? Free legal aid for Antifa?
Independent fact-checks, including from FactCheck.org and The New York Times …
“Fact-checking” using made-up “facts” favorable to the Democrats? You and Grok might believe the Times does independent fact-checking, Professor, but others of us are not so gullible.
Democrats that don’t want to provide health benefits to illegal aliens raise your hand.
So refugees and asylees are kind of like the health of the non-birthing person.
…as always the usual reminder: Independent fact checkers are neither independent or checking facts.
…my ouija board said… sounds more credible..:
"independent fact checks"
…do we still have to explain the gambit? Import millions of people into Democrats swing districts. Entice them with heavy subsidies and use taxpayer money to do it. Have allies in media, ‘fact checkers’ deny what’s happening.
“Independent” fact checks aren’t so. Democrats specifically said they want federal tax dollars to reimburse hospitals for care of illegal aliens. Leftist partisans are trying to create a definition that paying for healthcare is only a thing if it comes from Medicaid and not a block reimbursement from the federal government. It is “color of money” bullshit.
Independent fact checkers isn't the same thing as unbiased fact checkers.
We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment. Once they commit to providing emergency treatment to those who won't pay, they will still need to cover these costs. If the government doesn't reimburse, they just distribute the cost to their clients who do pay. It's the rest of us one way or another. What makes the most sense? Apparently, it's pretending you can't learn the facts and just saying what helps your political party the most.
Whatever your views on the exact policies they're debating over, the worrying thing is that Trump is outright lying about what the Democrats are objecting to...and so much of the MAGA electorate takes his word as gospel.
What Ann said…we’re all addicted to cross subsidies, especially the people in charge of voting for the messed up programs…
• Independent fact-checks, including from FactCheck.org and The New York Times, describe the Republican portrayal as misleading, as it exaggerates limited emergency reimbursements into broad taxpayer-funded coverage for all
Bullshit.GOP says the Dems are demanding that the US gov'tpay for ANY health care for illegals.
They are doing that, and saying they aren't.
The ONLY liars here, the only exaggerators here, are the Democrats.
What makes the most sense?
…could start by not importing over ten million illegals with a promise of free everything…
Ann Althouse said...
We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment.
Why not?
Why should I be forced to pay for the health care of some foreign national who has invaded my country? I'm not a Christian, I owe them NOTHING.
If they want health care, they can leave America and go back to their own country. And if they can't get health care in their own country, that's their and their country's problem, not mine.
It's kind of like the climate change arguments. I'll believe Democrats think that illegal aliens shouldn't be given health care at the cost of taxpayers, when they stop providing it illegally, or stop finding carve-outs to the rules that allow illegal aliens to get free health care.
Show me a hospital that ONLY supports Republicans, and only those Republicans who are anti-illegals, and want to deport them all, and that will be a hospital that deserves to get reimbursed for the cost of the illegal invasion.
The rest can go to hell.
I want the rule of law in America. And I'm quite happy to burn down anything and everything that gets in the way of that
The rule of law most certainly includes completely enforcing US immigration law, and deporting every single illegal.
Forcing them to self deport because otherwise they will die is a perfectly reasonable part of that
As Althouse stated, we are all paying, one way or another. Is the veil of legitimacy worth shuffling the payments to the federal coffer? I say no.
No one wants hospitals to "turn away needy patients" but California has been begging for Federal help with this unfunded mandate for the last 30 years. Obamacare and Biden's senility finally made it "possible" for reimbursement but then Democrats turned it into "Medicare for all" in California. That is democrat SOP: burden private industry with the problem and offer conditional "assistance" that skirts the law, then once the illegals become "dependent" on it cry foul because we notice and want to stop the unauthorized illegal spending.
And please do add federally subsidized healthcare to the long list of things immigrants are "forbidden by law" to participate in which recent news articles show they do routinely with impunity like voting, kidnapping, stealing SS benefits, working, voting again, ignoring court orders...
Well, if Grok says i dependent fact checkers say it’s not true, it must not be true…🤦♀️
Ann Althouse said...
We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment.
Why not?
This is a debate well worth having. We will never have it…
Just imagine if democrats cared about the American people with the same fervor and intensity of their devotion to going to battle over criminal illegal aliens! What a country THAT would be.
Or "the homeless"
Personally I’d prefer we soberly explained to illegals you were invited here under false pretenses by a corrupt cabal, our system depends on self sufficiency, we can’t continue to subside you at the expense of Americans so we ask you to leave until we tell you to leave. In the future we hope to have rid our system of the corrupt cabal so we can develop a functioning system of legal immigration…
And please do add federally subsidized healthcare to the long list of things immigrants are "forbidden by law" to participate in
It's hard to believe illegal immigrants aren't "forbidden by law" to be in America in the first place, yet here they are.
Excellent catch, bgates.
If not to serve poor brown people for free why even have unqualified DEI doctors?
(I don't believe this, but it's no less stupid an idea than socialised medicine.)
So there's nothing we can do about it, and we just have to bend over and take it forever, right? The first thing we need to understand is that we owe these people exactly nothing. Not free health care, not welfare, not free education, nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. All this pathological altruism has to stop. Now.
It's all about punishing poor brown people because Jesus demands it. It's a live action snuff film titillating MAGA so they forget about the Epstein Mossad billionaire money laundering operation to erase the middle class.
Give them a bandaid before deportation. It's the humane thing to do.
If the government doesn't reimburse, they just distribute the cost to their clients who do pay. It's the rest of us one way or another
…this is also a great explanation of one half of a cross subsidy so I’ll happily finish: …and part of that cost to their clients who do pay are costs associated with any/everything else need necessary but too expensive to afford- subsidized drug costs, free abortions, gender care, alternative medicine, more/less cops on the street…ngos…
…the torture was enticing people here in the first place under the pretense of legality and free stuff…
Immigration reform in lieu of emigration reform.
Althouse said…
If the government doesn't reimburse, they just distribute the cost to their clients who do pay. It's the rest of us one way or another. What makes the most sense?
Properly aligned incentives make the most sense. In the absence of federal reimbursement, individual states will pick up the cost in proportion to their sanctuary policies and “distribute” the burden to their state’s taxpayers, rather than forcing other states to pick up the disproportionate cost.
You guys are cruel. A five year old girl not documented appears at ER after being shot at a church mass shooting. And you don’t think she should have life saving treatment. Just let her bleed out on the curb. Shame
Al Franken is willfully ignorant. Also, a lying liar who lies.
Case in point: California spending $9.5B on healthcare for undocumented immigrants this year
unbold
trying again
It worked.
"Why should I be forced to pay for the health care of some foreign national who has invaded my country? I'm not a Christian, I owe them NOTHING."
You also make clear you are not a human being.
Price, responsibility, and legal differentials through redistributive change schemes
#HateLovesAbortion
jim5301 said...
"You guys are cruel. A five year old girl not documented appears at ER after being shot at a church mass shooting. And you don’t think she should have life saving treatment. Just let her bleed out on the curb. Shame"
No, what's cruel is putting out an invitation to any and all people who want a better life here, as a pretext to install one-party rule, subjecting them to the depredations of difficult and costly travel, to exploitation by the cartels, and the perils of crossing inhospitable terrain after they cross the border, and further exploitation by the bad actors who were allowed to cross the border. That's shameful.
It's not their rules you agree with Ann. Those are Alinsky's Rules.
Emigration reform to mitigate progress and collateral damage at both ends of the bridge and throughout.
"Just imagine if democrats cared about the American people with the same fervor and intensity of their devotion to going to battle over criminal illegal aliens! What a country THAT would be.
"Or 'the homeless'"
What makes you think they don't? And why the quotes around "the homeless?" Do you not believe there are homeless people in America?
Catastrophic Anthropogenic Immigration Reform (CAIR) is one issue backed by a transhumane religion that compensates for Diversity (i.e. class-disordered ideologies), political congruence, wicked solutions, etc. Redistributive change schemes under Obamacares. Such a "burden" h/t Obama. Abort, in a sanctuary state?
…and just a note to those you who are trying to make the leftie’s Import New Voters gambit into a story about immigration: Early in his first term Trump invited Democrats to the negotiating table to devise a new immigration policy- ‘Everything is on the table’ he said. You dishrags ignored him. Where was your compassion then?
Homeless people?! That's straight up bigotry. Or racism. Or something. It's the "unhoused." Amirit?
"lawfully present"?
What hot crap is that?
illegals waiting for their court dates? Abusing our asylum system at the command of one Joe biden.
Loopholes are wonderful things for crook liar democrats.
Placing Americans second, third, and selective. Cruel choices and wicked solutions for Democrazy, leverage, and profits. #NoJudgment #NoLabels #MeToo
Dems are desperate to turn our health care system into the horror show that is UK and Canadian style health care. sick? in need of life-saving surgery or treatments? you WILL wait in line and probably will die waiting in line.
Biden’s team was handing out social security numbers to illegal aliens.
Again - using a Medicaid-like program (not actual federal Medicaid) - Colorado Dems placed 50 million tax payer dollars in their budget for free illegal health care FOR ILLEGALS. CO's budget is in the hole by billions.
We have immigration laws on the books. It is an illegal act to cross the border.
Al "Fondler" Franken? Cruel and depraved. Socially progressive.
The catastrophe of million of illegals - bussed and trucked to the border and allowed in illegally - by Crook soros Joe - will destroy this nation. More Cloward Piven.
How crook Joe ESCAPTED IMPEACHMENT IS BEYOND ME.
"Surge the Border - use our asylum system" "That is who we are" -
Joe biden
a Democratic funding proposal to reimburse states for emergency Medicaid services to "lawfully present" immigrants, such as refugees and asylees
It also proposes to cover those paroled into the U.S., and those with Temporary Protected Status (TPS) which is pretty much all of those millions who were brought in by the Dems during the Autopen Administration. The Dems consider them lawfully present.
The states are deciding their own definitions of "lawfully present" and providing services accordingly, but looking to the Federal government to reimburse them.
Once they commit to providing emergency treatment to those who won't pay, they will still need to cover these costs. If the government doesn't reimburse, they just distribute the cost to their clients who do pay.
When the clients that do pay democratically elect a government that puts out a promise of sanctuary to people who shouldn’t be there to use the care, then they should reimburse the additional costs. I understand the need for government to be the insurer of last resort. I don’t understand being the insurer of last resort for every person in the world.
pravda checks, or is it isvestia,
NYeT. Suspicious.
ICE shows up at courts. Why not ERs?
Democrats are seeking to repeal the WFTCA's healthcare provisions as part of ongoing funding negotiations, which could reinstate the "California loophole" and increase federal spending on healthcare for illegal immigrants.
The lying liars who lie - corrupt Democratic Party-USA - use shape shifting semantics to cover the never-ending deceptions.
Ann Althouse said...
We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment. Once they commit to providing emergency treatment to those who won't pay, they will still need to cover these costs. If the government doesn't reimburse, they just distribute the cost to their clients who do pay. It's the rest of us one way or another. What makes the most sense? Apparently, it's pretending you can't learn the facts and just saying what helps your political party the most.
That makes lying OK then.
Good job Ann. You win the argument. People who want to discuss things honestly are meanies who want little kids to die.
Pathetic.
It’s a good thing normal people don’t suffer from loss of memory like these lying, sniveling Democrats do.
“We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment.”
Exactly.
When people who have been buying their health insurance through the ACA exchange get a 75% increase to their health insurance premiums and can no longer afford health insurance, we’ll be seeing more people using the emergency room as their healthcare source.
“If enhanced ACA subsidies expire, the average monthly premium for subsidized enrollees could increase by about 75%, leading to an average annual premium payment increase of 114%. This would mean the average annual premium paid by enrollees would rise from about $888 in 2025 to $1,904 in 2026.”
https://www.kff.org/affordable-care-act/premium-payments-if-enhanced-premium-tax-credits-expire/
Franken ‘n’ Beavis.
“ICE shows up at courts. Why not ERs?”
Why not churches too? Rush in there like gangbusters and drag out the worshippers with brown skin and accents and a few US citizens who protest the action too.
All the Roads to Hell lead back to that SOB Barky 0bama, don’t they.
Robert Cook said...
What makes you think they don't? And why the quotes around "the homeless?" Do you not believe there are homeless people in America?
Because Democrats in the blue cities "spend" tens of thousands of dollars on each homeless person with these homeless programs and we see how the homeless live.
The Democrats just feed them cheap drugs and keep all of the money for themselves. Democrats use the good will of Americans to steal tax money and enrich themselves at others expense.
They are doing the same thing with illegal aliens. Illegals are lured into the country then they get "free" services. The free services suck. The "reimbursements" overwhelmingly go into the pockets of hospital administrators for over billed care.
People invariably get terrible care from the government. People who work for government are overwhelmingly greedy and lazy. They don't want to work at a place that has standards so they work for government.
If you want actually good health care from people who actually want you to be healthy you have to go to Men's Health clinics. Hospitals will invariably send you home with a low fat diet, ozempic and a statin.
speaking of health care - pushed by the corrupt democrat party and their very corrupt media....
Inga said...
“We're not going back to the time when hospitals turned away persons who couldn't pay for treatment.”
Exactly.
When people who have been buying their health insurance through the ACA exchange get a 75% increase to their health insurance premiums and can no longer afford health insurance, we’ll be seeing more people using the emergency room as their healthcare source.
Repeal Obamacare.
Stop forcing me to pay for people who don't pay.
Illegals are here illegally.
It is against the law to be here - illegally.
Why are democrats in line with universal law breaking?
The Democrats hate the middle class. They want everyone poor and dependent on Government.
And if you don't want to be poor and dependent on government they will shoot you.
Is there any reason all the people who are concerned about being kind and caring can't get together and donate money to cover the expenses of illegal aliens instead of taxing everybody for these costs?
As a bonus, these funds could be managed and distributed by unpaid volunteers, so 100% of the money collected would go to health care for illegal aliens and not otherwise spent on salaries and perks for well paid government bureaucrats.
LOL - the leftist talking points have gone out. "Use brown children at church"
All from the same (D)hive-cultists who DO NOT CARE at all about the rampant child sex trafficking that kicked into high gear during Crook Soros Joe's massive campaign to flood our nation with illegal immigrants.
Mason G said...
Is there any reason all the people who are concerned about being kind and caring can't get together and donate money to cover the expenses of illegal aliens instead of taxing everybody for these costs?
As a bonus, these funds could be managed and distributed by unpaid volunteers, so 100% of the money collected would go to health care for illegal aliens and not otherwise spent on salaries and perks for well paid government bureaucrats.
You are trying to make a good faith argument. That wont work.
Democrats are a mixture of retards and thieves. The only reason they are fighting so hard to keep the government money flowing to these programs for poor people is because they are pocketing most of it themselves.
It is just taking money from the working and middle class and giving it to themselves. It is what they always do.
And if you don't like it they shoot you.
Mason G - 8:46. Agree.
They will shoot, shiv, or scalp you are the Choices. A wicked religion and solution with Diversity rackets.
Robbing hood.
Obamacares is the primary forcing of debt progression. Such a "burden"... uh, burden. Abort, sequester? Maybe, baby, a fetus... feature and wicked solution with ulterior motives.
Unaffordable, unavailable, and Planned with Democratic gerrymandering.
Inga said...
“ICE shows up at courts. Why not ERs?”
Why not churches too? Rush in there like gangbusters and drag out the worshippers with brown skin and accents and a few US citizens who protest the action too.
————————————————————
Isn’t that what Barack “The Deporter-in-Chief” did? Where were you and your fellow Democrats when Obama deported millions and millions of undocumented illegal migrants “with brown skin and accents” (aka slaves and indentured servants)?
There is not a direct Medicare payment to illegals, which is what the Dems hang their talking point on. Medicare funds state programs. Certain states use those programs to fund health insurance for illegals. Congress ended that in July. The Dems want it back.
It is a false claim that Democrats are pushing for ACA coverage for illegal immigrants. What they actually support is preserving and extending ACA premium tax credits (subsidies that help people buy health insurance) and reversing recent cuts or eligibility restrictions to Medicaid for low-income and legally present immigrants.
Unfortunately, this falsehood persists because many people simply refuse to look at the facts. At the same time, Democrats have done themselves no favors. They’ve been soft and sluggish in addressing illegal immigration, often ignoring or dismissing the very real concerns of the majority of Americans. Worse, they’ve allowed themselves to be pushed around by activists who demand that the term “illegal” be abandoned in favor of vague, euphemistic labels like “undocumented” or “irregular.” And when ordinary voters call for halting or reversing illegal immigration, too often Democrats respond by smearing them as racists instead of engaging seriously.
If Democrats want to win back genuine, lasting political power — not just temporary victories based on outrage at Trump’s failures — they need to confront illegal immigration honestly, listen to their constituents (that’s democracy, after all), and stop hiding behind out-of-touch activist talking points.
Inga wants lower Obamacare premiums? Get rid of the illegals then. That's a start.
The United States is not under any moral obligation to forcibly steal from its citizens in order to give the rest of the world free health care for life, no matter what Democrats claim and no matter what sob stories they produce.
If Democrats would stop their war on Christianity, then maybe.... juuuuuust maybe.... private charity and so forth would florish.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--the ones that Inga is suddenly claiming to be the savior of while she scolds everyone else -- used to run a massive hospital system. Government regulations/requirements/Democrat demands to force them to do abortions caused the Church to spin it off into the largest health care system in the Intermountain west.
The Church ran it better. But thanks to Democrats and their hatred of anything not run by government, we get worse service and for more cost.
And this story is repeated over and over throughout healthcare. Democrat demand make everything worse and cost far more... and then the rest of us are the heartless ones if we don't want to be the endless wallet for Democrat thievery.
Kak: You said it is a "false claim" that Democrats want to provide free health care to illegals.
So what is that video that Ann links in her post all about then?
And why is California and Colorado, run by Democrats, spending billions on free health care for illegals that they are demanding the Federal government reimburse?
When asked why he robbed banks, Willie Sutton replied, "Because that's where the money is."
So why do so many invade the USA rather than other countries more in tune with their native culture? Same reason: "Because that's where the money is." And, maybe because their native culture sucks (but they insist on bringing it with them, anyway).
I feel a hot wind on my shoulder
It’s the Orange Man and he’s gettin’ bolder
Flip the switch and turn the lights off
Turn my head and give ‘em a big cough
I see the camera of teh newsman
I talk tough like a low-T Dem
can
I hear them laughing at my sick bray
Can't understand just what do they say?
I wear a Mexican Sombrero
I wear a Mexican Sombrero
Sell my weak shit to the nation
They talk about the U.S. inflation
I understand that just a little
No comprende--it's a riddle
I wear a Mexican Sombrero
I wear a Mexican wo-wo Sombrero
h/t Wall of Voodoo
@Althouse, let’s not dive down into a rabbit hole. The questions need to be separated:
(1) Do we want hospitals turning away uninsured patients from ERs? I think we can safely stipulate that we do not, though I’d be much happier if I knew that this rule applied equally well to poor white families living in Appalachia, and not just to some hypothetical brown-skinned little girl survivor of a mass shooting.
(2) The Democrat senators are demanding [checks notes] $1.2 trillion for the above. Can that possibly be for real? A trillion is a million millions, and there are an estimated 14 million illegal immigrants. Do we really propose to spend an average of $85,715 for emergency health care for every “undocumented” man, woman, and child?
(3) If the answer to the above is negative, then what are we really proposing to spend the money on? After all, there are only so many little brown-skinned girls getting shot at in any given year.
(4) If the answer to (2) is affirmative then let’s try bringing in more healthy people, shall we? Or maybe enforce OSHA safety regulations more strongly?
(5). Are we really subsidizing cheap bean-pickers for California farmers (per Karen Bass) and cheap gardeners and lawn mowing services for McMansion owners to the tune of [checks notes] $1.2 trillion? Are the working and middle class Americans supposed to subsidize cheap labor for the elite few? Maybe McMansion owners should mow their own God-damned lawns.
(6) It has not escaped my notice that hiding behind the lucky brown-skinned survivor of a mass shooting is probably a veritable cornucopia of pet projects for Democrat politicians. It’s a pretty standard Democrat gambit to hide waste, fraud, and abuse behind something everyone agrees is useful. I’m not interested in falling for the trick.
Several points:
Yes, in some ways someone else always ends up paying no matter what for the free health care given to people who show up at the hospital. But that should payment should be born by those who decide that is the the policy they want. If a state wants to allow illegal immigrants to live there and that results in consequent medical care, then the citizens of that state should bear the cost. If they don't want to, their option is to to stop allowing uninsured citizens to proliferate, it is not to force other citizens who did not vote for that policy to bear the costs.
If it is cruel for citizens to deny basic coverage to citizens of another country that are lucky enough to make it across the border, why is it also not cruel to deny basic coverage for those people who are NOT lucky enough to make it across our border? What about the other 6 billion people who suffer both from no availability of medical care and no ability for payment for that which may be available. Somehow the demarcation line for compassion seems to always fall between the legal and the illegal, and not the rich and the poor. If you are truly compassionate you would require American citizens to expand their medical coverage to every person in the world. Why be so heartless and restrict it to just a few million people who already have a much better life just existing in a wealthy country. After all, their plight is far less desperate than those who do not reap the rewards of existing in America. It seems to me that the duty of care always seems to stop at our borders. How cruel can you be to deny such medical care to poor brown people in other places in the world?
It's not a misleading statement by Vance in any degree whatsoever- the blue states do not try to determine the status of the people they are serving with Medicaid funds and fight every single attempt by the Trump HHS to hold them to the letter of the law. Vance was 100% correct.
If Democrats would stop their war on Christianity, then maybe.... juuuuuust maybe.... private charity and so forth would florish.
Across the US, most of the first hospitals in towns and cities were created by Christian charities. Many still exist.
Deport all the illegals and the argument becomes moot.
If the shutdown isn't about giving healthcare for illegals, why don't the Senate D's propose a bill that would deny any non-US Citizen a healthcare reimbursement and refuse to reimburse any state that provides healthcare for illegals? Includng those on parole.
Oh wait, that's because they're in favor of providing healthcare for illegals and having the taxpayer pay for it. Just like in favor of getting rid of ICE, having open borders, and doing zero to ensure only US citizens vote.
Is it that the Democrats are such great liars, or is it that everyone else is so stupid?
The comments (some of them) were instructive. I'd like to highlight:
Bob Boyd responded to ..."a Democratic funding proposal to reimburse states for emergency Medicaid services to "lawfully present" immigrants, such as refugees and asylees"
with… "It also proposes to cover those paroled into the U.S., and those with Temporary Protected Status (TPS) which is pretty much all of those millions who were brought in by the Dems during the Autopen Administration. The Dems consider them lawfully present.
The states are deciding their own definitions of "lawfully present" and providing services accordingly, but looking to the Federal government to reimburse them."
Also:
TosaGuy said..."There is not a direct Medicare payment to illegals, which is what the Dems hang their talking point on. Medicare funds state programs. Certain states use those programs to fund health insurance for illegals. Congress ended that in July. The Dems want it back."
From Google AI - "Based on figures from California's 2025-2026 budget, the state is projected to spend approximately $12.4 billion on health care for undocumented immigrants. This amount includes an estimated $11.1 billion from state funds and $1.3 billion from federal sources."
note these are "Undocumented immigrants". Those in refugee status or on parole are not considered "undocumented".
And "Spending has proven to be much higher than initially projected following the 2024 Medi-Cal expansion that extended full coverage to all low-income adults regardless of immigration status."
In my area there are large numbers of immigrants (legal) who are 60 and over. Who is paying for their healthcare? Why are we allowing old and sick people to immigrate to the USA?
I'm going to give Althouse the benefit of the doubt. If someone arrives at the ER about to give birth, or in IMMEDIATE danger of death if not treated, then Yes. But elective or routine illnesses that illegals (and others) have and cram our ERs with? NO. We CAN and SHOULD turn them away.
Edler migration is a big deal. Many Chinese and Indian migrants get their elderly parents to come to America. Once here, they can't get social security...BUT if they are "disabled" they get full access to SSI and Medicaid. Its not very hard to get that decision if you're elderly.
Illegal immigrants aren‘t using any federal healthcare funds. So, why does it feel like they are to the Althouse commentariat?
Senate Democrats say they want to restore American healthcare subsidies. A right wing podcaster or blogger says what they really want is to fund sex change operations in Peru. For busy voters, it can be hard to know who to trust.
Kak - Lie. LIE. Again - you lie. Illegals are absolutely using ERs for free health care.
That is a fact.
Millions of Sanctuary cities are pouring money into illegals free health care - along with free housing, and free long term hotel-housing.
I see the dead bodies of illegals piling up outside emergency rooms and I wonder, why why won't Democrats support efforts to remove them to places where they will be legally present and can get proper care?
"Illegal immigrants aren‘t using any federal healthcare funds. So, why does it feel like they are to the Althouse commentariat?"
Because Illegal immigrants do receive healthcare and funds for healthcare from State Governments though their Healthcare exchanges, and those State Government exchanges get their funding from the Federal Government.
The left denies any of this federal funding goes to illegal immigrants, but to the right this feels like a very similar beat to the left swearing up and down that no federal money is used for abortions by Planned Parenthood or other abortion providers, yet when Medicaid funding was reduced to these groups they lowered the amount of abortions they provide.
JD Vance, who previously asserted that illegal immigrants were eating our cats and dogs, has now settled on the lie that undocumented immigrants are eating our health care.
All politicians lie, but he's really elevated it to an art form.
Grok, do illegal immigrants receive federal healthcare subsidies or benefits?
No, undocumented immigrants (often referred to as "illegal immigrants") in the United States do not receive federal healthcare subsidies or comprehensive benefits. Federal law explicitly bars them from most programs, including Medicaid (except for emergency services), Medicare, the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and premium tax credits or subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA). This restriction has been in place since the 1996 welfare reform law and remains unchanged as of October 2025, despite ongoing political debates.Undocumented immigrants can access limited emergency care funded by federal dollars, but this is not a subsidy or ongoing benefit—it's a narrow reimbursement to hospitals for life-saving treatment. They also contribute billions in taxes and insurance premiums that subsidize care for U.S. citizens, while using far less healthcare overall. ~ Grok
Kakistocracy said...
“Senate Democrats say they want to restore American healthcare subsidies. A right wing podcaster or blogger says what they really want is to fund sex change operations in Peru. For busy voters, it can be hard to know who to trust.”
How about we ask the pro-trans activists themselves? They make it sound like US aid is the lynchpin of their financing:
“ The recent halt in US foreign assistance has created an unprecedented crisis for trans and gender diverse communities around the world. For decades, US funding, channeled through programs like PEPFAR and USAID, has been a lifeline… With this funding now frozen, the impact is already being felt in communities that are among the most vulnerable.
Many clinics that depended on US funding to provide life-saving healthcare to trans and gender diverse people are now facing imminent closure.”
- The impact of the US foreign aid freeze on trans and gender diverse communities: A Call To Action
By Erika Castellanos
2 Feb 2025
https://gate.ngo/knowledge-portal/article/impact-us-foreign-aid-freeze-on-trans-and-gender-diverse-communities/
Federal legislation never stopped Alejandro Mayorkas from doing what he wanted.
Clearly you can argue about this all morning. And for what it's worth, I agree with what Tosa guy said. The other half of the Dem's argument is getting ignored. As I understand it, the Obamacare subsidies that the Dems want reinstated or created in 2020 as a response to the pandemic. COVID is over, so there is no reason to continue them. And this is why we can't have nice things. Anything the government does immediately becomes sacred and can't be revoked in the minds of the Democrats. How many other "emergency" provisions are we paying for even though the "emergency" is long past?
"The other half of the Dem's argument is getting ignored. As I understand it, the Obamacare subsidies that the Dems want reinstated or created in 2020 as a response to the pandemic. COVID is over, so there is no reason to continue them. And this is why we can't have nice things. Anything the government does immediately becomes sacred and can't be revoked in the minds of the Democrats. How many other "emergency" provisions are we paying for even though the "emergency" is long past?"
Excellent points - WhoKnew.
I have a friend whose family owned a farm in California. They grew almonds and grapes. They lived in a town that 90% plus Latino, many of them illegal immigrants. Everyone knows folks in their day to day lives who are illegal immigrants. My friend related a story of going out to a bar with one of their friends, Louis, who was an illegal immigrant. Louis was buying everyone drinks at the bar. This puzzled my friend because he knew Louis was unemployed. Louis explained that he could afford this because he was claiming unemployment and welfare benefits on three different fake identities. This is prohibited by law yet somehow was still occurring. When the left says "Illegal immigrants aren't getting any healthcare paid for by the Federal government because it is prohibited by Federal law," it sounds like BS. Ditto for when they say 'No illegal immigrants are voting." What's more Democrats, meaning politicians, administrators, those involved Democratic Political-NGO complex, know this occurs widely and count on it because it helps them gain and maintain political power and the cash flows associated with it.
Kak - this kind woman nukes your lies
TosaGuy said...
There is not a direct Medicare payment to illegals, which is what the Dems hang their talking point on. Medicare funds state programs. Certain states use those programs to fund health insurance for illegals. Congress ended that in July. The Dems want it back.
Illegals never get any of the money.
Democrats do. They give "medical care" to people who show up in emergency rooms. Illegals show up and sit in the waiting room for a couple hours. They see a doctor for 10 minutes and get some theraflu and the hospital charges Medicare thousands of dollars.
These government programs are never about helping Illegals.
They are just the tool used by evil democrats who want to steal taxpayer money.
Kakistocracy said...
Grok, do illegal immigrants receive federal healthcare subsidies or benefits?
No, undocumented immigrants (often referred to as "illegal immigrants") in the United States do not receive federal healthcare subsidies or comprehensive benefits.
Exactly. The Sock Muppet gives away the game.
Illegals get none of the money. They might get some "free" aspirin if they are lucky.
The Democrats keep all of the money spent in these programs.
Time and resource value of money. It's both.
Grok and other AI have proven themselves suspect, wrong incorrect and leftwing biased.
Kakistocracy said...
Grok, do illegal immigrants receive federal healthcare subsidies or benefits?
No, undocumented immigrants (often referred to as "illegal immigrants") in the United States do not receive federal healthcare subsidies or comprehensive benefits. Federal law explicitly bars them from most programs, including Medicaid (except for emergency services), Medicare, the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and premium tax credits or subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA). This restriction has been in place since the 1996 welfare reform law and remains unchanged as of October 2025, despite ongoing political debates.Undocumented immigrants can access limited emergency care funded by federal dollars, but this is not a subsidy or ongoing benefit—it's a narrow reimbursement to hospitals for life-saving treatment. They also contribute billions in taxes and insurance premiums that subsidize care for U.S. citizens, while using far less healthcare overall. ~ Grok
“Undocumented immigrants can only access limited federal support for emergency medical needs, but this is not a subsidy for ongoing coverage or routine care. They contribute billions in taxes and insurance premiums annually, yet their overall healthcare expenditures are low compared to U.S.-born citizens, effectively subsidizing the system for others.”
——————————————
In other words they are essentially being used as slaves and indentured servants.
Grok— “ That’s a strong analogy, and I get the frustration behind it—the imbalance where undocumented immigrants pay into systems they can’t fully access does create a sense of exploitation. However, equating it to slavery or indentured servitude isn’t accurate, as those historical systems involved forced labor, no choice in participation, and often no compensation at all. Undocumented immigrants typically migrate voluntarily (though driven by economic necessity or peril), receive wages for their work (albeit often below market rates due to limited bargaining power), and can leave jobs or the country, even if practical barriers like deportation risks make that difficult. That said, the system does allow for significant exploitation, with limited labor protections, vulnerability to wage theft, and restricted access to public services despite contributions.”
Two points:
"California offers broad health coverage to undocumented residents through state-funded Medi-Cal for all income-eligible individuals, regardless of immigration status, beginning January 1, 2024"
"Yes, Medi-Cal is jointly funded by both the federal and state governments, with the federal government contributing a significant portion of the funding through the Federal Medical Assistance Percentage (FMAP) formula, where the standard matching rate for California's Medicaid program is 50%."
grok: “That said, the system does allow for significant exploitation, with limited labor protections, vulnerability to wage theft, and restricted access to public services despite contributions.”
me: Who benefits most from this “system that allows for significant exploitation” — Obama-Biden-Harris voters? Or Trump voters?
grok: “ In truth, the “winners” are often wealthier business owners and elites across parties who profit from cheap labor, while low-wage native workers (disproportionately in Trump’s base) bear some costs—yet the net economic boost helps everyone.   Political divides are more about rhetoric than pure economics: Republicans emphasize enforcement despite industry reliance, while Democrats push integration.”
When it comes to the history of this era, Trump is going to rightly receive a ton of blame. However, the power elite that has exerted outsized influence over both major parties also can't be overlooked.
In the specific case of the ACA/Obamacare, which is a core part of this controversy, the Democrats opted for a conservative approach to providing "more universal" health care back in 2010. The Obamacare program was effectively modeled on the health insurance exchanges that Mitt Romney instituted when he was Governor of Massachusetts. The "Romneycare" program itself was modeled on programs that the conservative Heritage Foundation put forward in the 1990s. The Heritage Foundation put this proposal forward, because at the time there was a credible threat that Bill and Hillary Clinton and the Democrats might be able to push through a semi-universal health care program that was modeled on an idea that Nixon devised in the 1970s as an alternative to Medicare expansion. e.g. Medicare in its original form was a single-payer health care system, and the Nixon approach was to head-off a future expansion of the public insurance system.
If you want to trace the extreme right-ward drift in this country, the shifts in the political debate over health care spending and coverage are a great place to start.
Obama and the Democrats naively believed that if they funneled billions of dollars to private insurers, that these private insurers would fight to defend the program. Instead of defending the ACA, private insurers and pharma companies used the money to elect more conservative Democrats and Republicans . Initially these politicians reversed cuts to the private MedicareAdvantage program that were part of the ACA. However, a major consequence of empowering the Republicans, was that these insurers (and now pharma companies) also empowered politicians who are opposed to the federal government having any role funding health care spending in the U.S.
There is a lesson here, with respect to the nature of greed, and the tendency of capitalism to cannibalize itself.
One of the ironies in all of this, is that Trump and the Republican efforts to effectively destroy market-centric, profit-maximizing solutions to health care, may revive alternative approaches that do more to restrict the role of the private sector in the way we provide health insurance and in the provision of health care services. e.g. with the revival of ideas around universal single-payer health care and/or the rediscovery of "socialized medicine".
I doubt this is the intent of Trump and the Republicans, but this may be a practical effect of their attacks. In recent years too, these pharma and insurance interests have played an outsized role in the fight against more progressive politicians within the Democratic Party. In 2018 alone, my recollection is that roughly one-third of the money raised by the Democratic Party's official fundraising arm in the House of Representatives, the DCCC, came from the medical services industry. A significant part of the spending was used to promote candidates who were explicitly opposed to socialized medicine and single-payer, public health insurance. During the wave election in 2018, dozens of these candidates won election by first beating out candidates who explicitly campaigned for single-payer insurance. It will be interesting to track the fallout of these Trump attacks in the 2026 mid-terms, especially within Democratic primaries.
Well yes, Vance is a liar.
Big deal, he doesn't lie as much as his boss.
Anyway, if Vance wasn't a liar do you think he would have gotten his job? He called Trump an idiot in 2016, deleted the tweet when he ran for senate in 2021. "What, me lie?"
Al Franken would lie? Color me shocked I tell ya, absolutely shocked.
Republicans emphasize enforcement despite industry reliance, while Democrats push integration.
Do they though? Other than integrated into Democrat voters, what other ways do Democrats push integration? Speaking Somali language in Minneapolis?
"They also contribute billions in taxes and insurance premiums that subsidize care for U.S. citizens, while using far less healthcare overall. ~ Grok"
As usual, Grok is full of libtard bullshit. Here's a pretty comprehensive study that shows the true cost and benefit of illegal immigration in our country. There's a link to a YouTube video below it for you Democrat Party members who can't read.
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-cost-of-illegal-immigration
An excerpt:
"Still, we can use this data to get a rough estimate of illegal immigrants' lifetime fiscal costs versus contributions. If we take the averages of the scenarios in the National Academies' study, adjust for legal status, and apply the education level of illegal immigrants, we end up with a lifetime net fiscal drain of $68,390 in 2023 dollars for each illegal immigrant residing in the country."
https://youtu.be/vNKuPZFh9Dc?si=d_6a39Wsk27d75Sh
You guys are cruel. A five year old girl not documented appears at ER after being shot at a church mass shooting. And you don’t think she should have life saving treatment. Just let her bleed out on the curb. Shame
Nobody's stopping you from picking up the tab.
"Nobody's stopping you from picking up the tab."
That's not how the left rolls. They insist that everybody be forced to do (or prohibited from doing) anything/everything. Individual action is out of the question.
Minn Senator Al Franken begat Minn Gov Tim Walz. Enough said.
Franken is both. Illegal aliens are responsible for excess crimes and immigration reform generally is a first-order forcing of progressive prices, including unaffordable and unavailable medical care.
The left past, present, and progressive are robber hoods.
When people think of authoritarianism, witch hunts, human rites, and redistributive change schemes, and other divergent, transhumane doctrines, they are thinking of progressive liberalism (i.e. monotonic divergence). The antiliberal, antisocialist, antifascist is libertarian at the right of the political spectrum.
jim5301 said...
You guys are cruel.
Jim illegally traffics a 5 year old girl here to be shot, and tells us WE are teh "cruel" ones.
I've got a better plan: send her home
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.