How did Prevost, now Leo, "hit out"? J.D. Vance, justifying the adminstration's immigration policy, had said, "There is a Christian concept that you love your family and then you love your neighbour, and then you love your community, and then you love your fellow citizens, and then after that, prioritise the rest of the world. A lot of the far-left has completely inverted that." In response, on X, Prevost reposted a link to an article titled "JD Vance is wrong: Jesus doesn’t ask us to rank our love for others." And — with respect to the treatment of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Prevost retweeted "Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet?"
We discussed that Vance quote on this blog back on February 2, here. A podcaster, Rory Stewart, had said "Nowhere does Jesus suggest that love is to be prioritised in concentric circles. His love is universal."
Vance had responded to Stewart: "Does Rory really think his moral duties to his own children are the same as his duties to a stranger who lives thousands of miles away? Does anyone? This false arrogance drives so much elite failure over the last 40 years. Rory Stewart thinks he has an IQ of 130 when it’s really 110.'"
I'd said: "It's not a question of what Rory really thinks but what Jesus really said. What IQ does Vance ascribe to Jesus?"
The comments section on this blog began with Ralph L, who said: "Vance spelled out a Catholic doctrine, which as we know, hasn't always had a basis in Scripture, but in this case, in common sense. Not just love, but duty, too."
Prevost was not on my radar, and of course, he wasn't Pope yet, or I might have said "Is the Pope Catholic?" What I did say, not being Catholic and able to decide who's more Catholic, Vance or Stewart, I said: "The difference between the 2 men could be resolved by saying that Vance referred to a 'Christian concept' and Rory was talking about what Jesus said. The religions develop their concepts and have adjusted the words of Jesus to fit with and remain popular in the real world. But my problem with Vance is his taking a shot at the other person by referring to his IQ.... What's the point of expressing an opinion about another person's intelligence?"
It's easy to brush off some podcaster over his ignorance of Catholic doctrine. Vance must hear from Leo now.
That said, Giansoldati is over the top — "a vote against America."
Posts
133 comments:
"His love is universal."
not PARTICULARLY relevant
Jesus didn't ask US to be him..
Jesus didn't ask US to die on the cross, for the entire world's sins
Then of course we could just ignore Leo like we did his commie predecessor...
"...Giansoldati is over the top — "a vote against America."
But it says here, he's a 'Vatican expert', so there's that. I do find it hard to listen to a preacher that doesn't openly practice what he preaches. And no, providing baggage handling and transportation services to shuttle foreigners across international boundaries illegally is not 'loving thy neighbor', it's dumping them in your lap and then attempting to shame you if you don't do as they say. From behind the Vatican walls.
If it is a vote against America, then there will be a long history lesson on what the Vatican and this particular Pope supported in the past. That history explains Pope Leo's support of a human trafficker.
Here is a past official statement of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-say Saints, on the topic:
"As a worldwide church dealing with many complex issues across the globe, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints promotes broad, foundational principles that have worldwide application:
"We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that the meaning of “neighbor” includes all of God’s children, in all places, at all times.
"We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families and damages society.
"We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nation’s laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them."
"Public officials should create and administer laws that reflect the best of our aspirations as a just and caring society. Such laws will properly balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the observance of just and enforceable laws."
Europeans are at a point where their favorite Americans are the ones who vote against America.
It seems like the Catholic Church so far has its collective head screwed on straight at least when they get around to picking popes.
I find it interesting that the Church chose an American now. I think they wanted someone who could speak directly to the hearts of Americans about the importance of building bridges instead of attacking allies. Another thing that’s interesting is that no one is mentioning he’s part Black. This guy is a real trailblazer. He’s part French, Italian, African, Spanish and Haitian. In other words, a real American.
Jesus specifically condemned the Pharisees for dedicating their money to "God's work" in the broad sense and then not taking care of their own parents.
The IQ thing is a dumb cliché that has currency and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that J.D. Vance misuses the term "beta" as an insult.
No Christian thinks “a Christian concept” means “Jesus said.” People who criticize Vance by keeping things strictly to Jesus are being dishonest.
I don’t think there is such a Christian concept; I know I wasn’t taught that. And Vance walks it back a little later by saying it’s common sense and how everyone actually lives. Which is true, but he’s not talking about Christian concepts anymore.
Popes outlast presidents and it would be irresponsible to pick the Pope in response to an elected term-limited democratic leader. That’s the sort of nonsense I expect from a self-obsessed American. I'm surprised this is an Italian “Vatican expert.”
Why does the US carry the sole burden of Christian agency in the Catholic Church? If only Christian love existed elsewhere South America really needs a theology of liberation that emphasizes taken care of their poor rather than perpetuating oppressing by the political and religious power structures. I think there's a potential for a real movement in that though it'd likely get coopted by Leftist sociopaths who want to abuse the poor for their own wealth and power gains
Semitic religions can be used to justify anything.
"it’s a vote against America" So, Catholic love is not universal after all?
No true Catholic, hat tip to the Scots.
Democrats do no love their neighbors.
They would rather HATE Trump. Democrats do not care about all the Laken REILY'S - and all the other illegal crimes by illegals that ruin citizen's lives.
Destroying the economy while the corrupt left use our tax dollars to fly illegals to every corner of the nation under cover of darkness -WHILE LYING ABOUT IT.
Democrats have no morals. THEY LIE.
If you support democrats and democrat lies - you are a fraud.
Someone no one had heard of a week ago is a "leading opponent of President Trump." He must be pretty far down the list, maybe somewhere between #200 and #300.
Vance was right. The founders of religions lay down absolute moral principles that are hard or impossible to follow. People who run religions have to figure out how those imperatives can be reconciled to human realities.
What Vance said though makes him sound like an extremely arrogant idiot. Don't boast about your IQ and don't act like a 110 IQ is something to be ashamed of.
In the cosmic scheme of things, Jesus has a lot to answer for, and don’t get me started on Yahweh. As for all of you “love everyone everywhere” nut jobs, here’s a simple challenge - just go for a walk down the street of any city in the USA and practice “loving your neighbor as yourself”. Odds are you end up incarcerated, mugged, or dead by nightfall. How about taking care of your immediate family, your extended family, your friends, your immediate neighbors and your neighborhood in that order? Leave everyone else alone. Please.
When did a prospective Pope’s views on American power and politics become relevant to selection? The Pope should be about theology and Catholicism. That’s it.
With another Leftist as Pope, we conservatives will be attacked and lectured as not being Catholic because we don’t believe in open borders and CAGW.
The "go and sin no more" part is where things get sticky. We should absolutely have compassion for the poor, but we aren't obliged to accept sin as a byproduct of our compassion. Charity isn't merely a funding mechanism. Some of the actions of Catholic Charities in the past 25 years demonstrate how these distinctions become blurred.
Beyond that, I don't believe Leo was selected to counter Trump, inasmuch as he will most likely remain as Pope after Trump leaves office. What I want most from the new Pope is clarity.
When I got up this morning my phone told me that the pope's brother had once reposted a video calling Nancy Pelosi the c-word. My first thought was: is that news? I don't mean is it news that that is what Pelosi is, but is it really news that somebody's brother reposted something somewhere at some time? Is the internet just a giant scheme to get people to make thoughts public so that those people can be slammed for it later, something like Mao's "Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend" period?
My next thought was, at least somebody in that family has a little sense and is, as the kids say, "based."
Jesus was not a big advocate of family first. "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me "(Matthew 10:35-37). I've wondered about his actal conversations with his family members, especially his brother James, who became the leader of the Jerusalem group of his disciples.
Don't take political advice from theological figures. Don't take theological advice from political figures. In fact, don't take theological advice.
The Catholic Church has always been an elitist front to capture the energy of Christianity and bend it to the will of the elites.
It has always been a deception as a core motivation.
This obvious move made here is to set up the Pope and the Catholic Church as opposition not just to Trump, but to the Nationalist movement going on in many countries around the the world.
Kakistocracy said...
It seems like the Catholic Church so far has its collective head screwed on straight at least when they get around to picking popes.
I find it interesting that the Church chose an American now. I think they wanted someone who could speak directly to the hearts of Americans about the importance of building bridges instead of attacking allies. Another thing that’s interesting is that no one is mentioning he’s part Black. This guy is a real trailblazer. He’s part French, Italian, African, Spanish and Haitian. In other words, a real American.
The pope is a globalist slug and cypher.
Of course Rich will approve of this. They are all on the same globalist team.
"I love mankind… It's people I can't stand." Linus
Dave Begley said...
When did a prospective Pope’s views on American power and politics become relevant to selection? The Pope should be about theology and Catholicism. That’s it.
With another Leftist as Pope, we conservatives will be attacked and lectured as not being Catholic because we don’t believe in open borders and CAGW.
The Catholic Church has always been about politics and power. There was never a time when the people who formed and organize the Catholic Church gave 2 shits about the religious aspects of that institution.
I am glad that they have set up the Pope as obvious political opposition to Trump.
Trump will hopefully be able to make the Catholic church completely pull off their mask like all the other globalist shills.
“head screwed on straight” says the Man with his Head up his Ass.
It’s folly to apply 21st century American politics to the anointed leader of a 2000-year-old church.
That said, Giansoldati is over the top — "a vote against America."
Yep, leftie magical thinking. Makes me think that Pope Leo has probably done or said something that shows he's going to be more of a middle of the road Pontiff like the previous Leo was.
The left's only interest in Christianity is in using it as a means of bashing non-leftists when the opportunity presents itself.
JD Vance retorted “Does Rory really think his moral duties to his own children are the same as his duties to a stranger who lives thousands of miles away? Does anyone?”
It’s easy for the childless to adopt this philosophy—especially young childless women. Look at who overwhelmingly supports full citizenship rights for everyone—young childless women. And their numbers are growing.
The way the world is headed, young people will soon be supporting universal healthcare for pets.
Thinking about why an American pope at this point and time:
1) He is well connected among Cardinals and Bishops with ties to both the developed and developing world. He's an American, his parents were of Spanish and Franco-Italian origin, and he spent most of his career in Peru and is a naturalized citizen of Peru as well.
2) He is an American counter voice to Trump that will influence American voters.
3) Americans are the biggest contributor to the Vatican budget and the Vatican needs more money to solve its deficit problem.
4) He appears to be a centrist along the Catholic ideological spectrum and may have some ability to be a uniter within the church.
I also like the fact that he is a multilingual mathematician and Canon Law lawyer.
To vote for Pope Leo as a vote against America is a sin, actually several sins, mortal and venal. So who is this Vatican insider, Soldati, gloating over sinning, if it did occur?
Vance spoke crudely, but he was echoing Chesterton, who did more to spread the joy and grace of Catholic generosity than any other writer of the 20th Century.
Immigration reform in lieu of emigration reform. Sure, all's fair in lust and abortion. Another fetus in the clinic, another baby on the barbie... another brick in the wall. A wicked solution with empathetic dissonance.
Ice Nine said...
"Then of course we could just ignore Leo..."
Most people ignore the Pope. Including most Catholics.
Giansoldati. My unreliable i-pad has implicated an entirely innocent Soldati, somewhere.
Catholic Charities has been supporting and enabling the mass influx of illegal immigrants into the USA. This includes human trafficking of women and children for "sex work," gang bangers, drug dealers, and, of course, some "fine people." Maybe Pope Leo XIV would like to explain this as an act of faith, love and goodness. Maybe given the centuries of corruption in the Papacy, the sexual abuse of children, and the hoarding of hundreds-of-billions of dollars in art and treasure, all while lecturing us on the importance of giving and charity, the Vatican could be a bit more circumspect.
“I have-a quite a bit of experience. Not-a, you know, exactly DOING IT, but-a I’ve-a talked to people that have done it and seen-a the video, and I feel-a very confident.”
—— Franca Giansoldati
It’s okay to be soft-hearted, but not to be soft-headed.
Regarding Vance’s statement it is objectively true. Repeatedly throughout the Bible God commands us to love and honor our parents, then in the Gospels Jesus applies the same kind of responsibility to parenthood and how “training them up” to follow Jesus is part of parents’ loving duty. Later responsibilities to neighbors and strangers are generally couched in “as needed” language, ie “if your neighbor needs a shirt” and “if a stranger asks for food” and “when you do something for the least of these.” We must take care of our immediate family. We should help others where we see need. Yes we should “love our neighbor as we love ourselves” but I believe the biblical context supports JD more than the leftist writer objecting to him. Prevost’s pre-papal musings simply reflect his reaction to the lying corporate media that is currently obscuring the fact that “due process” for illegal aliens boils down to deportation without any court hearing for most.
The Jesus IQ question has been debated in the past. I think the main issue is whether or not Jesus was actually, or at least fully, human.
Still at a very young age, Jesus was wowing the local Rabbis. So he was probably pretty smart.
Rory Stewart is no mere podcaster a former MI-6 agent in the Balkans and Indonesia, a runner up to the Tory leadership, a one time candidate for London mayor, he is definitely part of the problem
My father used to express wonder that, according to the purported accounts of his life and teachings, Christ, supposedly the greatest moral teacher ever, had very little to say about relationships, marriage, and how we should behave in our everyday family lives. Subsequent interpretation by two millennia of celibate men has not added much. Catholic doctrine even proclaims that Mary, the Mother of Christ, was always a virgin, despite Bible passages referring to James as Jesus's brother.
Jesus tried to cut through the legalism that the Commandments had devolved into, he made them more exacting than the mere word would suggest,
So it’s a vote against America since he’s been a leading opponent of Trump and he’s not too American because he was a missionary in Peru but because the Vatican’s finances are in such a mess it was important to have an American pope.
when he said 'I did not come to make peace' he meant in the context of familiar structures, but one has taken this to mean the opposite,
of course Rory in part because of his experience in the middle east, notably Afghanistan and Iraq, where we foolishly made Islam the state religion, thinks the mass of immigration from those countries will yield a fresh crop of converts, which the reverse is likely true, as England become less Christian even in form in the last generation,
Experts have a tendency to predict what they envision, and that vision is corrupted by personal opinions. Pope Leo's time as Pope is counted in hours, and those wanting to steer the opinions they wish were facts are already hard at work.
If the Pope really cared about the migrants, his real priority would be to critique the governments of the countries the migrants are fleeing from.
The point of the parable of the Good Samaritan is that Christians should help the people in need that God puts in front of them, not go looking for the right kind of people to help.
Liberals have been reading their humanist preferences into the life of Jesus for a couple hundred years. Smart, Nice, and he really, really likes us! Lmao
Jesus did tell people to pay the Roman and temple taxes, even though both institutions were morally suspect. Paul later extended this to honoring the emperor as placed there by God.
The postmodern RC leadership only seem to honor these verses when lefties are in power.
JSM
Of course
The only really enduring impression I have of Catholics is the nasty lima beans the nuns at school would slop into a compartment of the metal tray in the lunch line.
No wait! I remember vividly having to grab my ankles in front of the 3rd grade class while Sister Jean Gabriel smacked my ass with a wooden paddle. No doubt I richly deserved it, but the key point is that I remember the burn, but not the misconduct that lit the match.
No. As I think further on it, I remember Sister SomebodyOrTheOther smacking the backs of my hands with a long, thin, polished rosewood stick during piano lessons if my hand position wasn’t correct or if notes were misplayed.
I also remember the very distinctive smell of the Baltimore Catechism we were required to memorize. And I wasn’t even Catholic.
Ahhh. Good times. Good times
- Krumhorn
As Peru pursues emigration reform and mitigates progress, and people's lives improve as individuals rather than in blocs, the transnational theme will sound less harmonious and more cacophonious with empathetic dissonance.
It’s human nature to protect people you love and know in expanding circles of interactions. We are tribal by nature. To discount that and think we each should care for complete strangers to the same degree is ignoring our humanity. I can respect people writ large, but I’m not an idiot. There are a lot of people who behave atrociously, or with evil intent, and I refuse to care for them as I do my own family. That’s insane and perhaps even suicidal.
If the Vatican "loved" them all THEN the walls of the Vatican would be torn down!!!! So don't give us this "do as we say and not as we do" shit... BTW.. I'm Catholic.
The pope's opinion on politics and general philosophy is completely immaterial to me. His opinion on religion is only slightly more material. To be blunt, the pope's predecessors' inhumanity towards such diverse religious groups as Jews during the Spanish Inquisition, the protestants in general during the reformation and the purposeful extermination of 1 million Cather men, women and children during the 12th and 14th centuries leaves little room for (pardon the expression) holier-than-thou posturing now.
What I do respect the Roman Catholic church for is the preservation of Western art, literature and philosophy during the European Dark and Middle Ages as well as for stopping the Muslim hordes at Vienna. On the more personal side, I am appreciative for the persecution of my Mennonite ancestors which caused them to flee Hanau in the Hessen State in the 1600s and seek religious freedom in the British colonies, eventually settling in Anson County NC in the early to mid 1700s. That persecution, among other things, gave me the opportunity to vote for Donald Trump three times, so I've got that going for me. Which is nice.
What was Cardinal Prevost trying to accomplish by being active on social media?
Prevost was a big shot in the Catholic Church, so engaging on public issues can only come back to haunt him. Now he is pope, and his social media presence will be scrutinized. Some will be divisive or controversial.
Many people in positions of authority should be more prudent.
@Kak That's a dishonest summary of his heritage and background designed to sound like he is Peruvian. His mother's ancestry is Louisiana Creole, not Spanish. He spent about 9 years in Peru, hardly 'most' of 40+ year career, and none of it before being appointed Bishop there. His dual citizenship is the result of an agreement between the Vatican and the Peruvian government that all Catholic bishops must be Peruvian citizens.
"Subsequent interpretation by two millennia of celibate men has not added much."
A large number of altar boys might argue about the celibacy part.
I understand the idea behind celebacy in the Church, and the Scripture is unclear about that, but would marriage necessarily solve this problem, in a fallen world, such as we find ourselves,
Cardinal Gerhard Muller warned against the Pelagianism of the Church, a path he fears was pressed on Francis by Vatican insiders, stripping the role of the Church of the Cross for an ersatz and politically-driven NGO. Perhaps Giansoldati was not, as I said before, herself gloating, but merely observing the schism. It will be up to Pope Leo himself to clarify. Muller is a curiosity, rejecting both the labels of conservative and liberal, supporting both Vatican II and the Latin Mass, and urging others to look past differences to do so too. 'You must read things in their original texts,' is his urging, a lesson I will try to take today.
Do you not see the suffering? Bring Garcia back from El Salvador--his wife needs a few more beatings. Give me a break!
Isn't the idea behind the celibacy doctrine to simply keep any wealth the clergy may have acquired from leaking outside the grasp of the Church?
This is a variant of the "charity begins at home" concept. While that phrase doesn't explicitly appear in the Bible, the idea is present in both the Old and New Testaments. For the latter, people often cite the passage of Timothy that says "Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." Of course, others will emphasize the "love thy neighbor" and "love thy enemy" passages to make a different point.
I have an open mind, about Pope Leo, as this world sorely needs a strong speaker of the Word, but I had reservations about Francis that were regretably born out, of course
Study the Bible, Gods' WORD not Catechism A book of a religious organization. What is the greatest commandment ?"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Matthew 22:37-39 (NIV) I am a recovering Catholic since 1972 after returning from serving the Armed forces of the United States,(65-72) A Bible believing Born again Christian falling short daily but in the grace (unmerited favor)and mercy of Jesus Christ. This space is a testing ground for me :)
If you want to 'feel seen' among your peers say something that would contradict the Trumpsphere.
If you want to 'feel seen' among your peers say something that would sound like the Trumpsphere.
@ Christopher B: There is nothing more American than being from more than one place.
I feel very hopeful that he will provide an alternative sort of American leadership on the world stage. The cardinals have been canny in their choice.
So-called “big tent” Catholics, the progressive wing of the US Church, counsel humanistic sympathy for the way people actually live, a tendency Pope Francis espoused.
This is why Francis was popular with humanists and other atheists and less popular with Christians.
the Times first commandment is to love the World and Love Sin, this is why he was published by the Times,
Let everyone that really believes Jesus meant treat everyone the same take the average wealth and income of the 8+ billion souls on this earth. Then dispose of any of your net worth that exceeds that number. Direct any income that exceeds the earth-average income.
No cheating. That wealth and income can only be directed to those with no connection to you or your family or friends.
Me? Feh! I give a fair amount to charity, but that's my choice.
Oh, on immigration? Let's build the Vatican walls along the border and have Swiss Guard equivalents (funny costumes aside, they are rough mothers) control entrance and exit.
I live in the most progressive place in America; the richer you are, the more left your politics. I’ve noticed the wealthy here are intensely focused on saving the world for some abstract humanity fifty years in the future, but couldn’t give a flying fuck about the tens of thousands of very real fellow citizens rotting to death on the streets right before their eyes. I can’t help but think Jesus would draw some concentric circles if he showed up today.
because Francis rarely demanded much of them, to get them outside their confort zones, we have plenty of depak chopras and lesser prophets,
in fact the underground church in China, he disdained in favor of the puppet organization that Xi set up,
Immigration has zero do with Christianity or the message of Jesus christ. If the Pope loves immigration its no more a feature Catholic theology then his love for fighting climate change or his desire that the Vatican should be remodeled or expanded. Its literally the Pope "Giving to God what is Caesar's"
Somehow the Catholic Church got along with not supporting open borders for 1700 years. Of course, the same church had no problem with slavery.
Of course, the Pope and leftist priests who support globalism and Big business getting cheap labor are the same ones who had no problem going to Communist Cuba and toasting Castro successor. So what if they didn't celebrate Christmas or Easter or tried to push atheism. Hey, they're fighting climate change and like immigration!
there is a contradiction in how they preach 'sustainability', and yet demand unlimited immigration,
The Vatican has a wall around it. That’s all you need to know about what the hierarchy believes
Earnest Prole @10:38. Good point…
Vance was crude but it seems he was just pointing out how the "experts" are all just Dunning-Krugers.
As for the celibacy thing, the eastern church (so called Orthodox) never had a problem with it. It was likely the growth of monasticism that was prevalent in the west, that led to the idea of priests being celibate. As benedictines like Gregory I became popes, the idea became more mainstream in the western church.
(I'm a Catholic convert.) Pope Francis's ministry was to non-Catholics and the unchurched. He offended many traditional Catholics and some of them stopped going to Mass and reduced their offerings. One of Trump's first actions was to cut USAID that funded many NGO's supported by the Catholic Church. Add all that to the Church's failure to deal with the priest sexual abuse scandal has put the Church in a bind. One of Pope Leo's problems is how to deal with the Trump juggernaut. It's certainly true that the Holy Spirit rules these decisions, but the Church is an earthly institution.
Maybe the vote was because the Conclave thought Prevost was the man the Church needed. Maybe because he was a man enough of them could agree on. Maybe Trump has nothing to do with it.
“the Church's failure to deal with the priest sexual abuse scandal has put the Church in a bind”
This is the reason the Pope has to be anti Trump.
He knows lefties will exploit this vulnerability if he isn’t.
O the stories they will write about the Pope’s own efforts to cover up for child abusers.
When he lived in Chicago he always voted in Republican primaries.
His administrative abilities and his belief that the Church needs to figure out how to approach the new world (AI/Tech) probably had more to do with his selection than taking a shot at Trump.
his actions toward Bishop Strickland of Tyler Tx suggest otherwise,
Don't follow leaders watch the parking meters. And always think for yourself.
james martin's long held supporter also argues against such a view,
Sister Anna! Sister SomebodyOrTheOthe Was Sister Anna. I am certain that y’all wanted to know.
- Krumhorn
The Vatican jumping on the MAGA bandwagon! An American pope!
Is there anything Trump can’t do?
There is a difference between supporting and enabling, and the people who tend to be enablers have to learn the distinction the hard way.
J Scott said...
“As for the celibacy thing, the eastern church (so called Orthodox) never had a problem with it. It was likely the growth of monasticism that was prevalent in the west, that led to the idea of priests being celibate. As benedictines like Gregory I became popes, the idea became more mainstream in the western church.”
A contributing factor was that the West was feudal at that time. The priests/bishops began to expect to pass down their church/bishopric like the lord/king would pass their fiefs down. And if the son was not particularly pius…
Lazarus said...
"When I got up this morning..."
Glad to see you up and about.
Greg Hlatky said...
"Maybe the vote was because the Conclave thought Prevost was the man the Church needed. Maybe because he was a man enough of them could agree on. Maybe Trump has nothing to do with it."
This is right.
@narciso
1. “Pope Leo XIV's decision to remove Strickland from office suggests a preference for administrative changes in leadership rather than a formal punishment or censure, according to Ketk.com” In other words, bad for the Pope.
2. It doesn’t matter. Is Trump a Nazi? It doesn’t matter. Lefties smear with half truths and untruths. There’s a vulnerability and the left will exploit it unless and only unless the Pope is anti Trump. So far, indications are the Pope understands this.
We have a Pope, not a Dem politician. As far as I can see, without a miraculous intervention, this Pope is going to be ground to powder between the American right and the American left because he shares convictions with the strongest partisans on both sides - no, to abortion and gender confusion but yes, to migrants. Or take the scuffle over the ordo amoris. One can say that there is no "ordo amoris" in the sayings of Jesus in the Bible but then how to explain the rightness of "a preferential option for the poor?" And this option is what Leo XIV has been living by as far as I can see. And so on. He's on both sides as one might expect when each side has a partial truth.
Trouble is, when you're on both sides these days, they combine and crush you.
So ... saving grace from heaven needed.
And I expect that grace to be given. In fact, I think I've seen it already. I imagine the more rotten Cardinals saw Robert Prevost as the representative of an 21st century institution which sociology could explain, an identity-based Church. And, surprise, that possibility was over in 24 hours. The Church had still just the one foundation and the Papacy was left, as it should be, a complete mystery.
For starters " it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile" [Romans 1:16]
Or, furthermore, "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." [John 15:13] ... and Jesus then goes on to differentiate servants from friends.
More forcefully, "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." [1 Timothy 5:8]
Pretty clear picture, and there's plenty more.
ISTM that the charity and love of neighbor preached by Jesus was a command for how individuals should live their personal lives, not a policy prescription for governments. For example, I don't recall Jesus commanding the Romans to permit unrestricted immigration from Judea.
Sister Mary Elephant.
Is fair to say that to the modern progressive, mere citizenship is unconscionable privilege.
The Right: We should ignore everything Jesus ever said except all that stuff he said about abortion and gays.
The Left: We should ignore the Constitution except the parts about about abortion and gays.
Someone should look into what Jesus and the Constitution have to say about abortion and gays.
Pope Leo X was so corrupt and vile it led to Martin Luther and centuries of brutal warfare. Now we have another Leo and masses of people arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Not a single word on how he plans to clean up the vatican bank and the alterboy scandals. Just how much longer is the fastest growing segment of the church in Africa going to put up with this crap?
Pope Leo's older brother, Louis, has posts on Facebook indicating he is a strong supporter of Trump, Vance, and Musk.
In the mini-series "The Bronx Is Burning" there's an out-take where Mickey Rivers asks Yogi Berra "What would Jesus bat?" Yogi replies "A Tausend." The two of them decide "Got to bat him three." I'd say most of the discussion in the media about all this is below that level.
"but couldn’t give a flying fuck about the tens of thousands of very real fellow citizens rotting to death on the streets right before their eyes. I can’t help but think Jesus would draw some concentric circles if he showed up today."
EP, this is exactly one of the huge problems. The Gospels, and NT in general, aren't about general help or outsourcing solutions. When it says neighbor it means those within our immediate reach. It's always particular help and particular response. Otherwise it's guilt management (rich people want to enjoy their privileges without shame) or some other kind of non-love response. If every Christian in the entire world actually helped those within their immediate range to help, the world would be a much, much better place. That's fundamentally what early liberation theology was arguing for, that the Church and Christians should help those in their communities rather than continuing to support corrupt powers.
Christian ethics at its core is always particular, but by generalizing love or help or such we turn it into yet another religious system that perpetuates dysfunction and blame, always more concerned about the sins of others than helping others and the faults of others rather than our own. We can only really address our own faults and only really help the people in our immediate reach. We don't want to help ourselves or others, so we export those ethics to ways we can't really fix and then have a pseudo-holiness.
“This is a very significant choice, because it’s a vote against America since he has been a leading opponent of Donald Trump."
Nice little palace ya got there, popie. Be a shame if one of our drones happened to wander off course some day….
He’s pope, he's pope
He’s at teh head
He’s pope, he's pope, he's pope
His name ain’t Fred
Iman, is that sung to the tune of She's Tight?
JSM
No… to the tune of “Lump” by the presidents of teh United States, circa mid-90s, JSM!
Jesus didn't raise a family. Just sayin'.
Iman: Lump - ah yes. Weird Al did a great parody of it called Gump.
JSM
The last thing I want to hear is spiritual advice from atheists like Achilles. Go your own way, but don't try preaching to me.
Christian ethics, seemed to work, admittedly imperfectly but when Government replaces private charity, and charity becomes NGO's or Quangos another type of grift, well there we find ourselves,
rsbsail said...
The last thing I want to hear is spiritual advice from atheists like Achilles. Go your own way, but don't try preaching to me.
5/11/25, 5:37 PM
————————————————-
The Juche loving commie retard Achilles is in. Is way an atheist. While he might reject the God of Abraham, he does worship at the feet of his Lord & Savior, Donald Trump.
narciso.
As soon as anyone other than you is involved it is no longer charity.
There's nothing I hate more than a bunch of athiest and Jewish Leftist quoting Jesus at me. Or big business Greed-head Republicans doing the same. Yeah, what would Jesus say? Yes indeed. I'm sure I'm sure he'd say a lot of things. Like why is the USA sending bombs to Israel to bomb hospitals and kill kids. Or why we're sending Ukraine bombs and weapons to kill people over a border dispute. Or why comfortable middle-class Americans love that cheap labor and cry about "refugees" while they don't give a damn about the suffering neighbor 2 miles down the road. Or why rich Americans aren't paying their workers more money instead of hiring foreigners to replace them.
Jesus said "Love they neighbor" Not "love that strange foreigner 3000 miles away". He also said "GIve onto Ceasar that which is Ceasars". Maybe our new Pope will talk more about God and less about leftwing ideology climate change migration and antisemitism.
sigh, you were so close, and then you miss it, the new Pope and the old Pope seems keen on Communists and Islamists,
like your Gaza pen pals, the ones who worked with the ones who bombed Pahalgham,
It's weird to see your name in tags.
Should my family starve in order that I feed yours?
When did it become "hit out" instead of "lash out"?
Hit out sounds like a easy pop fly to center.
Has Pope Leo been to Dolton, IL, recently? He would find it much changed. It has become a poster child for close-in suburbs that have crashed socially, politically, and economically. Maybe the Pope could work a miracle. He could start by dealing effectively with the new mayor who replaced the startlingly brassy and corrupt Tiffany Henyard.
Leo has a lot to do close to home that has nothing to do with Vance or Trump.
A protestant might say, "The Lord helps those who help themselves."
Let me know when thst bastard son of a Dolton whore says a mass for the souls of Mollie Tibbetts or Kayla Hamilton or Laken Riley or Jocelyn Nungaray or Rachel Morin or any of the other women killed by the criminals that he obviously prefers over ordinary citizens.
Maybe he should have done his missionary work in Chicago. When I was there, the Palestinians had ganged up, no pun intended, with the South American gangs to war with the black gangs, just as the South American gangs did in Los Angeles.
Sounds like that's just up his alley. But not a Papal resume builder.
Rcocean II and Big Mike make sense. And I agree I choose to ignore stupid Marxist and athiest and even Jewish and Protestant commentary on actually serious religious Catholic issues, the latter two only out of an expectation for mutual respect.
The strength of a Pope is to withdraw from worldly things with one exception: to protect the flock of the faithful.
Cattledog.
The point of questioning the IQ of a someone who holds a low-IQ position, is to give enough of a shock to the audience that a few of them allow themselves a good 10 second (or more) think on "could it be this totally normal sounding idea is actually an idiotic mistake"? I think we need more of this result; open to hearing about alternative tactics to simple mockery but they must be as effective.
130 vs 110 is just another way of saying "He's not as smart as he thinks he is." It's way too soon to predict what this Pope will be like.
What means 'athiest'?
When God shows up it is first about the scripture’s authority. And that automatically opposes Lawlessness. Only then does love take over the stage.
Athiest: one who excels or exceeds in Athi, whatever Athi might be.
Sure, Jesus exhibits universal love for one and all. He is, after all, the Son of God and has some rather exceptional abilities in that regard, as well as many others. We mere humans on the other hand do indeed prioritise our love.
Sure, Jesus exhibits universal love for one and all. He is, after all, the Son of God and has some rather exceptional abilities in that regard, as well as many others. We mere humans on the other hand do indeed prioritise our love.
Jesus' message is: "Love all as oneself." Do NOT prioritize your love of and for others. Love those who are cast aside, those who are suffering, those who are in bondage, those who are in need. So, no...he did NOT say it is "okay" to prioritize one's love to one's family, then closest friends, then lesser friends, etc.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.