He firmly rejected the notion that painful experiences offer perspective or meaning, or that life’s fleeting pleasures make its fundamental wretchedness worthwhile. He said nothing would be lost if babies stopped being born.... He writes in his book that “while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place.” His advice to those who do exist is to do no harm to other human beings or animals, and to “get the joy you can and give the joy that you can give.”
May 22, 2025
"If a human being did not exist then the absence of bad would be good... but the absence of good would not be bad because nobody was deprived."
Said David Benatar, quoted in "Antinatalist philosopher: The Palm Springs bomber proves my point/We should stop having children, says David Benatar — whose beliefs were reflected in Guy Edward Bartkus’s manifesto written before he blew up an IVF clinic" (London Times).
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64 comments:
"Said David Benatar, quoted in "Antinatalist philosopher: The Palm Springs bomber proves my point/We should stop having children, says David Benatar."
Here's another idea: Learn how to parent. And keep the species alive.
Why does it feel like not having children won't really be enough for Mr. Benatar in the long term.
Who will rid us of these fools!?!?
Another fucking nihilist. Nothing new under the sun. And yeah, Temujin is onto something. I welcomed another new daughter a month ago and I am 68. Ha ha ha, anti-natalists! I intend to keep right on going.
this was ALL addressed in Benatar's song: Love is a Battlefield
seriously.. The future Belongs to those who show up
I prefer Pat Benatar.
All carrots no sticks
It's actually a misinterpretation of having no established grounds for the answer, when language depends on established grounds.
does he have an album, sarc
He's just smart enough to get himself stuck, but not smart enough to get out. But that's OK. If he's stuck, he's keeping busy and out of trouble. Good place for him, not having any kids. Stay away from mine, though.
Leftwing terrorist believes in leftwing philosophy. MSM response: Lets have a discussion about that philosophy, its so interesting.
Rightwing Terrorist believes in Rightwing philosophy. MSM Response: Lets hunt down those who publish those "hate filled screeds", expose them, and censor them.
People who don't believe in having kids shouldn't have them. One more misfit eliminated from the gene pool.
Then there's the Michelle Goldberg route. Tell everyone kids aren't worth it, and marriage is absurd. Then get married and have kids. And brag about how wonderful it is.
IF this guy seriously believed what he is saying..
he wouldn't be not having kids.. he'd be suiciding himself
"... few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place...."
I think those who are unable to have children (or grandchildren) will notice. There's so much extra time to notice all sorts of things and it may come up as you contemplate your life circumstances and you are inclined toward the mode called "Looking on the Bright Side." Those nonexistent children never suffer. There, now, you don't need to feel so bad about not having them.
It's also true that you won't need to sacrifice for them. But that's selfish and the philosopher is posing as beneficent. These kids are a lot of trouble. Life is a lot of trouble!
I've had a vasectomy, I spay and neuter my pets, use pesticides, and fossil fuels with abandon. Personally I've tried every bad health habit available. What does he do? Just talk, nothing but talk.
Nothing wrong with having children.. but some have this thing against post birth abortion.... called the death penalty for murderers. Liberals don't wanna kill off the killers.
There should be just one court for appeals to death sentences. Sort of a D-SCOTUS fast track for any appeals. Give them a two week 'fortnight' appeal and that is that. No state appeals, just fast track to D-SCOTUS.
“He firmly rejected the notion that painful experiences offer perspective or meaning, or that life’s fleeting pleasures make its fundamental wretchedness worthwhile.”
This is called Anhedonia. And is a symptom of a variety of psychological and mood disorders.
Another "intellectual" who is excited to promote civilizational suicide. Disgusting.
What a wonderful reductio ad adsurdum, arguing that since suffering involved in life is supposedly bad, to remove suffering completely from life let us not let kids be born. Killing infants is considered a negative thing, moreso than the suffering of children in their lives. Therefore suffering is not completely bad. Neat.
Transhumanism. Pro-Choice religion.
rhhardin said...
“All carrots no sticks”
All carrots and no carrot cake.
I don’t give much time to pessimist. When you think everything sucks, then you ought consider maybe you just suck.
A selfie-abortion? Perhaps.
Of course, Benatar is still breathing this morning rather than doing what he advocates.
He shows no respect for masochists, a huge blind spot that may miss more of us than is known.
Death and pain are reasons why life's heroic. The great equalizers. Time wounds all heels.
I sincerely hope that there’s a posterity to look back on the insanity of these people and times.
Life's a piece of shit (Oooh)
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's the joke, it's true (Oooh)
You'll see it's all a show (Oooh)
Keep 'em laughin' as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you (Oooh)
And...
[Chorus]
Always look on the bright side of life
(Whistle)
Always look on the right side of life
(Whistle) (C'mon David, cheer up!)
Pat Benatar makes more sense than that mopey philosopher. "Hit Me With Your Best Shot", "Love is a Battlefield", pick a song.
Why don't these philosophers just drink poison and die then? Asked in good faith btw. Hectoring others to cease to exist while they gain tenure, enjoy an American middle class life style, and write their books seems really hypocritical for such lofty and noble souls.
His philosophy is inconsistent: How come he gets to count prevention of suffering in someone who doesn't exist as good, but not count prevention of joy in someone who doesn't exist as bad?
If you have kids, they will experience suffering and happiness, if you don't have kids, "they" will experience neither.
A second failure in this philosophy is that he's ignoring revealed choice: If life is indisputably bad, how come most people don't take their own lives?
This guy is an "academic." The fact he gets paid to mull over how awful is existence is evidence that his life is pretty swell.
bagoh20 said...
"I've had a vasectomy, I spay and neuter my pets, use pesticides, and fossil fuels with abandon. Personally I've tried every bad health habit available. What does he do? Just talk, nothing but talk."
Holy shit! There are gin mills on Milwaukee Avenue that have shrines to you.
Can we count on Mr. Benatar exiting this plane any time soon?
sounds like bertrand zobrist of inferno,
Let me guess. This supercilious asshole lives on money extorted from his betters.
The “philosopher” lacks conviction: he yet breathes.
Might this nudge truly deeper investigation?
I doubt it. He seems pleased with himself in juvenile conclusions.
"He writes in his book that “while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place.”
I still think he's a tool of the elites who want to reduce human population, in order to use our planet as their private reserve. He may have believed what he said, but my guess is that he got the ideas from influencers.
Strangely once brought into the world, very few leave it volunterily. You'd think if the world was so terrible, the second thing after deciding not to have kids, would be to "exit stage Left". But some how that doesn't happen.
Slight clarification - I thought the quote was from the bomber, not Benatar. Benatar may also be just another tool, or he may think he'll be one of the Chosen Ones who survive the Great Purge.
Lotsa luck with that.
Every time I hear this, I think of "The population bomb" and "zero population growth" which was big when I was a kid in the 70s. How much better the USA would be if we didn't have so many people - said Paul Erhlich. Of course, what he really meant was how much better it would be if there were fewer white Americans. 'cause he loved open borders and massive immigration.
Life is a lot of beautiful trouble. Like people beating me to Pat Benetar references. She has two children, worked her ass off in hard jobs before becoming famous, and has been married to the same man since 1982.
She observed Catholic rules on divorce. After a young marriage to a high school sweetheart, she married her current RC husband outside the Church because she was divorced. Admittedly, she is pro-choice, though not nearly as extreme as our politicians. And Pope Loe could spend some time becoming acquainted with her song, Hell is for Children.
as I pointed out, the Population Bomb, was one of those memes that the East Bloc indulged as the West, these thanatists (my own coinage) were even Bond villains in the 70s,
So many Humanities professors seem to wallow in the cheap nihilism that teenaged boys enjoy jolting their parents and other authority figures with. Who knew you could fashion a whole tenured career out of it? Of course, the good professor has no desire to pursue his philosophy to its logical conclusion: if life is nothing but suffering, and the kindest thing of all is to prevent new beings coming into life, why wouldn't wiping out all life on earth be the ultimate act of compassion to all those generations never to be born? But that would entail taking some responsibility for the kind of acts of nihilism his philosophy inspires. Which would be contrary to the code of the Ivory Tower.
“If his parents had not brought him into the world there would not be this misery,” he said. “His actions underscore my point.”
No, they don't.
Remember that case about the guy who wanted to commit suicide and went and got all those hookers and blow and then decided that life was actually worth living? The odds are that if you look for it, you can find happiness in this world. If you honestly can't, then you can take yourself out at any time.
Also, it's illogical to talk about "good" and "evil" if mankind never existed because the concepts of good and evil don't exist without mankind. You can stretch the logic and say that good and evil would still exist in the animal kingdom, but then you find yourself suggesting that the universe should have no life in it at all. Just minerals and gasses.
The argument that mankind is born into misery is disproved by the fact that so many people aren't miserable.
If you are miserable all the time, then you, as an individual, have a problem that should be addressed.
Just as Samuel Johnson refuted Bishop Berkeley's ideas on the non-existence of the world by kicking a rock, I would suggest refuting Benatar's notions about reduction of suffering being the highest good by kicking him in the leg and feeling pretty good about it. Logically flawed (argumentum ad lapidem and all that) but satisfying nonetheless.
As PJ O’Rourke noted…
In The Population Bomb, [Paul] Ehrlich writes of a formative experience he had during a taxi ride in Dehli on a hot summer night:
“The streets seemed alive with people. People eating, people washing, people sleeping. People visiting, arguing, and screaming. People thrusting their hands through the taxi window, begging. People defecating and urinating. People clinging to the buses. People herding animals. People, people, people, people.”
Ehrlich’s conclusion from all this was that the world had “too many people.” But just below the surface of his description is the idea that the problem is not just too many people, but too many of the wrong kind of people. “Just enough of me, way too much of you.”
The Population Bomb was published in 1968 when the birth rate in the developed word had mostly collapsed to below replacement level (2.1 children per woman) and stayed there ever since. Meanwhile, most of the third world continued to have birth rates where the average woman had 6 or more kids.
Ah yes, Paul Ehrlich, the Transylvanian etymologist whose scientific knowledge is limited to butterflies and mites (ironic, that). His first book was written mostly by his wife, but the editors felt the message would be stronger coming from a man, so her co-authorship was, as they say, aborted. Their second, less-well known book leaned heavily on Maoist state solutions, proscribing compulsory, state-forced sterilizations and abortions on women. Suggested for America, but applied mainly to lower caste women in India, unknown numbers of Indian women suffered the consequences. He was not quite concerned about male fertility. Zero of his predictions came true. But hey, what's a batting average when you have a wife that oppressed who also gives birth to your own, eugenically excluded family? (He was the Sierra Club's favorite white supremacist, and they published his later eugenicist book.) He argued there should be fewer Jews and argued that food aid, rather than technological advances in agriculture in India, would end either people or starvation there. It was his least accurate description.
Actually, RcoceanII, Ehrlich was one of the miniscule cohort of complete immigration opposers who was a white supremacist.
The only point either of them have proven is that they are morally obtuse idiots. Why is Benatar still alive? Why are any of these anti-natalists still alive? Their insistence that others should not live while continuing to live themselves proves the hollowness of their philosophy. If life is worthless (or even negative as they claim), they should dispose of themselves and leave the rest of us alone.
Transylvanian well that puts a different spin on things,
like one of the last Hammer dracula films
I'm pretty anti-social naturally, but the lockdown over Covid made me appreciate the simplest of social interactions and general freedom in a way that calls bullshit on this. It was like waiting for that day when your parents would announce that you were no longer grounded. Just walking out the door with smile was a joyous flight of rapture. I have far more great days than bad ones, because thankfully for me, it just never took much to appreciate life. Sadness and depression are just mistakes. You are doing it wrong.
You see, rcoceanii, there are these things called facts. And sometimes white ladies know them, and you don't. Maybe read more and stereotype less.
I have lots and lots of intellectual self-confidence. Maybe too much. I have a rule that I use in my philosophical explorations. It is a corollary of sorts to Descartes' "cogito ergo sum". The corollary is that if the product of my cogitations would cause me or my progeny not to exist, it is wrong and must be cast aside forcefully, as one does when considering the work product of Peter Singer, John Rawls, or David Benatar.
Clearly, windowpane.
Epicureanism took a bad turn when it got married to cosmic pessimism. Eat, drink, and be merry, but everyone would be better off dead.
Even religions that recognize extinction (nirvana) as the highest good and end of life know that it's a reward one has to win by putting up with the sh_t and garbage of this earthly existence.
If I were a baby, would the burden be less?
If I were a tail, could I pen a tale?
Higher primates are really wicked. We kill one another a lot, compared to other species, and unlike other species we don't just kill for mating rights or territorial disputes. We kill for the sheer pleasure of seeing our foe die in misery and despair.
Amazon.com Sales Rank #180,298 in Kindle Store
I guess non existent kids don't grow up to buy his book.
It's gonna be a good day.
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