March 13, 2025
"President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia said on Thursday that he was open to the idea of a 30-day cease-fire in Ukraine..."
"... but that a number of 'questions' must still be resolved. His remarks, at a news conference in Moscow, signaled he was in no hurry to go along with a truce and came as U.S. officials were in Russia to discuss the cease-fire proposal that Ukraine has already agreed to.... It was the first time that Mr. Putin had publicly addressed the cease-fire offer. He is expected to meet with President Trump’s Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, later today — and Mr. Putin said he may soon speak with the American president...."
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53 comments:
"...signaled he was in no hurry to go along with a truce..."
So Putin has read "The Art of the Deal"?
His remarks... signaled he was in no hurry to go along with a truce...
Maybe so, but how would the NYT know? What did they expect, for Putin to say "yeah, I'm down with that" without even considering the conditions of the proposal?
This "cease fire" will rightly be viewed as a trap by Russia and a chance for Ukraine to catch its breath and re-arm, the same way we used the Minsk agreements. Russia just kicked Ukraine out of Kursk, Ukraine is reeling, morale is collapsing. There is no reason for Russia to accept a cease fire on US and Ukrainian terms right now.
The real history of the West's long term plan to use Ukraine to collapse the Russian Federation in the same way that the USSR collapsed. Oh yeah, and the history of why we have been fighting in endless wars since the Soviet Union collapsed, as told by the man who was the first American to hear the news that the Soviet Union was no more, directly from the lips of Boris Yeltsin in the Kremlin.
https://theduran.com/geopolitics-peace-and-chaos-w-jeffrey-sachs-live/
They are coming to the table, and that is progress; the small incremental steps are the ones to follow. The usual interpretations predicting dire consequences are the normal crap we have to put up with from the 'experts' both sides. I hope we don't start with the tit-for-tat flame wars on this thread, which are tiresome and uninformative.
don't get me started on sachs and summers, they should be barred from any decent forum, for what they did to not only the Russian economy but practically every province inside Central Asia,
", for what they did to not only the Russian economy but practically every province inside Central Asia,"
Oh, he knows he screw up, he knows he was played, but who better to lay out what really happened, and he has been on the inside, in the rooms where it happened, and still mixes with the highest levels of power.
Aggie, agreed; this is a step in the right direction.
we shall see if this a hudna like what we see in Gaza or a real piece
The left are rhoooting for more war.
There is no reason for Russia to trust the United States, NATO, or Europe in general.
The Minsk accords made that clear. The 2014 coup we sponsored was the most important factor in causing this war.
At some point the United States is going to have to admit that it has been breaking deals and pushing for regime change in Russia for 40 years. We cannot be a broker for peace if we keep acting in bad faith.
If Trump really wants peace he needs to call the Democrats and the Neocons out and he is going to have to start charging people like Victoria Nuland and Susan Rice with treason.
well he got them to the table, lets see how it works out, we could have had this deal in 2022, and there would be about 3/4 of a million less dead
Meanwhile the Hamas delegates are storming Trump Tower in NYC with matching t-shirts and signs. Send them all to Gaza to fight for their people over there...along with whomever is funding their hate and antisemitism...(soros)
and you would get a treason conviction in DC, now whose dreaming
Less mind reading by NYT lap puppies, more wood shampoos for NYT lap puppies
the Daily Mail had its fresh Russian scoop, via the Bezos Post, how this wouldn't happen,
We could have had Ukraine completely whole in 2014 including Crimea with lasting peace.
But we fomented a coup and overthrew the Ukraine Government. The political leaders of the political parties representing eastern Ukraine were thrown in jail or chased out of the country. Western Ukraine armed and supported paramilitaries like the Azov Battalion to terrorize the East of Ukraine.
So Russia took Crimea.
We could have had the Minsk Accords in 2020 which would have had Ukraine whole minus Crimea.
Boris Johnson told Zelensky to renege on the Minsk Accords and the US and Europe started promising to add Ukraine to NATO after Baker promising not one inch to the east.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
This has been an exercise in bad faith by the west for 40 years. If peace is your objective you cannot act like this. We need to charge the liars and warmongers with treason and send a signal to the world that the US wants to be an honest broker and force for peace in the world.
"There is no reason for Russia to accept a cease fire on US and Ukrainian terms right now."
Once they boot the Ukrainians out of all Russian territory, all they want is assurance that Ukraine won't join NATO. The Russians don't want to conquer Ukraine West of the Dnepr, they want ot keep it as a buffer between them and NATO.
The more you read the New York Times, the less you know. They even say it in their motto, all the news they see fit to print.
and when they admit something inadvertently they deny it subsequently, because as Taranto observes, they don't read their own paper,
The Journal is sadly not much better, they were defending Perkins and Coie's history of fraud,
Just the day before yesterday (03-11) Trump announced that (browbeaten) Ukraine has now fully accepted America's terms to participate in a forthcoming 30-day ceasefire in that war—whereupon Trump immediately resumed intelligence and materiel support for Ukraine. Now it's Putin's turn to “fully accept America's terms” and join the ceasefire—making it real.
Austin Bay in a piece posted yesterday observes that Trump's pressure on Putin has now begun, as a U.S. B-52 accompanied by Finnish Air Force fighters launched a JDAM [Joint Direct Attack Munition] at a Finnish firing range located only 100 miles from the Russian frontier. As Bay writes: {quoting…}
The Barents Observer reported on March 7 that on March 6, Finnish F/A-18 fighters escorted two USAF B-52s into the Arctic Circle on a so-called training mission. A video "by the Finnish Air Force, filmed from cockpit of a F/A-18, shows one of the B-52(s) releasing a guided JDAM bomb. Shortly after, a giant blast can be seen at a designated target in the taiga-forest within the Rovanjarvi firing range."
{/unQuote}
Austin notes that, due to Ukraine's potent long-range drones, Russia's strategic bomber force had previously been moved far away from Ukraine: up near the Barent's Sea and east of the Urals, where however they remain extremely vulnerable to U.S. attack and destruction—if Putin doesn't quickly also accept the ceasefire. Nothing had to be said publicly by the Trump administration for that message to be communicated loud and clear to Putin.
We live in interesting times.
Peace in our Time:
The agreement provided for the German (Russian )annexation of part of Czechoslovakia (Ukraine ) called the Sudetenland (Crimea), where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans (Russians), lived.[1]
that ignores a boat load of history going back about 300 years,
Sevastapol, for instance, was one of supposed 'Potemkin villages'
Talking is better than fighting.
Neville Chamberlain would have been regarded as the most stable of all geniuses if he got Hitler to stop his annexations without giving the Germans more land. VVP isn't merely supportive of the ceasefire, the terms are so good that Zelensky would be an insane coke head to not immediately address it. Even a quick withdrawal/ surrender in the Kursk pocket would be infinitely better than angering President Trump while getting your army massacred. Ukraine has seen hundreds of soldiers surrender in Kursk, and that will be thousands when they realize their government is abandoning them.
”President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia said on Thursday that he was open to the idea of a 30-day cease-fire in Ukraine..."
Trump, of course, wants a lot more than that, and I think he will get it.
@narcisco, Russia first annexed the Crimea to acquire Sevastopol in the late 18th century, and went to war with England, France, and the Ottoman Empire to reacquire it in the 1850s after the Ottomans had conquered the Crimea in the interim. Sevastopol is not something Russia is idly interested in.
Jupiter said: Once they boot the Ukrainians out of all Russian territory, all they want is assurance that Ukraine won't join NATO. The Russians don't want to conquer Ukraine West of the Dnepr...
Russia probably intends to take most or all of the coastline, at least including Odessa.
"Neville Chamberlain..."
Here we go. LOL. Hitler had a huge army that was able to roll over countries like Ukraine within weeks. Putin wanted Ukraine to stay neutral, this was far too much to ask of NATO, which supposedly exists to keep the peace in Europe.
Russia created Ukraine and gave them a huge army, BTW, and Ukraine, after we overthrew their elected government in 2014, started using that army to kill the ethnic Russians left there from the fall of the USSR.
I love how the Ukraine shills and Ukrainian assets alternate between:
a. Putin is going to CONQUER THE WORLD!!!
and
b. The walls are closing in on Putin, he's losing the war!
1) Russia is never going to return the ground they have taken. Ukraine needs to deal with that reality.
2) Moving on past that, Russia wants guarantees that protect Russian speakers in Ukraine and they want some sort of iron clad guarantee Ukraine will not join NATO or be a base for foreign agression against Russia.
3) Putin has been burned by ceasefires before. So, he wants a long term agreement, not a short respite that will allow NATO and the USA to rearm Ukraine and restart the war.
All the nonsense and this bloody war could have been avoided if we had just recongized that Ukraine is in Russia's sphere of influence just as Mexio is in ours. But we need to be imperialist and be aggressive and then be shocked, I mean shocked when "the Target" reacts. How dare Russia not recognize the America's borders start at the Donbass!
People keep bringing up Chamberlin. he had the same problem. He refused to acknowledge that E. Europe was in the USSR/Germany sphere of influence, and that the UK and France needed to mind their own business. He then went to war over "Poor little Poland" that was then handed over to Stalin with a peep of protest in 1945..
The left/dems/LLR-left are positively petrified at the thought of a potentially, though less than perfect as it must be at this point, stabilized (Terms TBD) situation in Ukraine where there is a ceasefire and the killing stops.
Trump just hammered Putin. He didn't renew Biden's waiver on Russian fuel to Europe.
Peace in our Time:
You're dumber than I thought if you think Russia, in its current state, is even remotely close to the power of Nazi Germany.
RCOCEAN II said...
"Poor little Poland" that was then handed over to Stalin with a peep of protest in 1945..”
The real story is much more interesting. British were doing all they could to establish independent Poland in 1945. Stalin basically bribed the Poles by expelling millions of Germans from Polish lands AND giving to Poland a fat chunk of prime German territory. Churchill described in memoirs that in 1945 there were not 4 armies occupying Germany but 5 (US, Soviet, British, French and Polish). Polish forces were made of two, one command based in London and another in Moscow. It was extremely complicated but Soviets prevailed, because Poles could not resist the offer of great chunk of Germany with no Germans in it. Few years later Soviets helped Polish Communists to take complete control of the whole new Poland…
That is press conference today with the Dutch NATO chief and apparently buddy of Donald Trump we're talking about Ukraine and Russia and NATO and how much stronger NATO got last time Trump was in office and how much more is coming. Trump also scoffed at the idea of Russia restarting hostilities. Not so veiled threat of backing the peace.
The rule of war since 1973 is to push into enemy territory as hard as possible and don’t stop until the ceasefire. Then fortify your line at that point.
I think the best thing for Ukraine would be for Russia to keep the parts they have taken that are ethnic Russian. That removes a moral problem for both sides. Then hopefully they can live in peace and eventually get over the resentment.
Russia has been severely punished for their assault. Their economy has been made stagnant producing only arms and natural resources. Their army has been shown to be a rusted hulk with logistics dependent on railroads. They are chastened.
The war is at a tipping point, I hope it does not tip into an ongoing bloodbath due to Irrational thinking by Russia and Ukraine.
War is not healthy for children and other living things.
"Trump just hammered Putin. He didn't renew Biden's waiver on Russian fuel to Europe."
You mean Trump just hammered Europe.
Cards are finally being shown.
First, the killing needs to stop on both sides. Ukraine has proven stronger that Putin thought and Russia has shown it is weaker than anyone thought. As those above point out there are two absolutes for Putin: no NATO membership for Ukraine and retention of the ethnic Russian SE portion of Ukraine. For Zelensky I believe there is only one big sticking point: real guarantees of Ukraines territorial integrity post the loss of the SE. It will take some time to hammer out agreements on these truly difficult points, but it can be done while the killing and destruction stops - all the threats of taking back territory are a bluff. Ukraine's loss of the Kursk salient should make Zelensky even more welcoming of a cease fire and Putin can preen for the home crowd a bit over a tactical success -the first one in two years - while he accepts a cease fire.
So it's no sale with Putin, now we find out if Trump is going to adopt Biden's war, or if he has more cards to play, because to be honest, I feel like Zelensky just walked away from the table in Saudi Arabia with Trump's shirt and his wife.
A fun little question and answer session.
As much as we hate the neocons and warmongering globalists, it is not enough.
Putin Rejects Immediate Cease-Fire in Ukraine ~ WSJ
I don’t know if this is it, but I think there will certainly be a turning point at which Trump realizes he’s being played.
Let’s see how Trump reacts to Putin knocking back his offer, compared to how he reacted to Zelensky doing the same.
Trump needs to squeeze Putin even harder than he did Zelensky if there is to be any ceasefire or peace. Doing more with sanctions against Russia will have marginal effects, but opening the door to Ukraine for more advanced US weaponry and other support to change the equation on the ground would be the most important factor in bringing Putin to the table.
As usual, we have dozens of people repeating heaps of hogwash as if it were true. Here's one egregious example from Jupiter (12:42pm): "The Russians don't want to conquer Ukraine West of the Dnepr, they want ot keep it as a buffer between them and NATO."
In fact, Putin has publicly announced that Russia has annexed all of the provinces of (from NE to SW) Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kheron, and that Ukraine must evacuate all the parts they currently occupy as a precondition (not the only one) to peace talks. I believe he's even had his annexation put in the Russian constitution, to make it look irrevocable, though he could of course reverse it any time he wanted to.
Russia currently occupies (link) 62.6%, 98.6%, 71.9%, and 69.3% of those oblasts, and has been losing more ground than they've gained in them since the 1st of February. More important, all of the unoccupied part of Kherson oblast, and a fair piece of the unoccupied part of Zaporizhzhia oblast, are on the right (west or northwest) bank of the Dnipro. Of course, Putin wants these two areas as bridgeheads and jumping-off points for when (not if) he breaks any ceasefire he signs, as he has done in 25 of the last 25 ceasefires in Ukraine, and tries again to seize more of Ukraine. With no opposed river-crossing required, it would be far easier that way than what he's been trying and failing to do for years now. It is simply false to say that the Russians don't want anything west of the Dnipro.
Finally, the fact that Jupiter refers to the river as the 'Dnepr' proves that she is getting her talking points from a Russian source, possibly at second- or third-hand. That's because Dnepr is the Russian name, so calling it that when you're not referring to the upper reaches around Smolensk in Russia, hundreds of miles on the far side of Belarus, is deeply dishonest or hopelessly ignorant. The part of the river being fought over is in Ukraine, both sides of it, and the Russian-speaking areas of the Donbas are very far to the east (look at a damned map). It is in fact a Ukrainian river, and Ukrainians call it the Dnipro: that's its name. The traditional English name is the Dnieper, so calling it that might (might!) conceivably be justifiable. But only Putinites and their dupes would call this part of the river 'Dnepr'.
Similarly, anyone who refers to the state of California as 'Alta California' in English is either a Mexican or a dupe of Mexicans. That's not its name in English, even if Mexicans may occasionally call it that in Spanish to distinguish it from Baja California.
To encourage Putin to join the cease fire, and honor it, I'd suggest increased heavy missile strikes deep in Russian territory, aimed at power plants, rail depots, military upply and logistic targets. With a promise of loss of oil infrastructure next.
mikee said...
To encourage Putin to join the cease fire, and honor it, I'd suggest increased heavy missile strikes deep in Russian territory, aimed at power plants, rail depots, military upply and logistic targets. With a promise of loss of oil infrastructure next.
It is hard to tell if you are making a joke or intent on starting a nuclear war.
Such is the pathetic nature of the neocon warmongers right now.
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