September 20, 2024

"Not only do more women want to be small; they want to be smaller. Jerry Chidester, a plastic surgeon in Salt Lake City, said his patients used to ask for C cups."

"Now, they want Bs. He often does five breast reductions a week, mostly on young, postpartum mothers.... Small breasts may not draw as much attention on the subway or the street as bigger breasts do, but they are also a fashion. Whereas big breasts signal motherhood and sexual availability, smaller breasts can convey youth, girlishness, puberty, thinness, androgyny.... They can also indicate class. In March, a meme circulated on X... 'MEN,' it said. 'Which do you prefer? The aristocratic elegance of the small breasted woman OR the Nietzschean pro-sex, pro-beauty large breasted woman?' Thornton agrees that smaller breasts signal the self-assurance of affluence whereas breast augmentation can signify social ambition — a desire to attain wealth and status via the attention of men.... For a woman to withdraw from the male gaze, to assert herself in her refusal to be ogled, to relieve her own pain, to be able to comfortably train for a marathon or dance at her own birthday party — that is liberation. But it’s a personal, individual one, said Thornton. 'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"

I'm reading "The Power of a Smaller Breast/Breast reduction is all the rage in cosmetic surgery. Are women asserting their independence or capitulating to a yet another impossible standard of beauty?" (NYT).

Thornton is "Sarah Thornton, 59, a sociologist who lives in San Francisco, was a B cup before her double mastectomy. After breast reconstruction she had Ds, which felt huge to her — 'bulky and cartoony,' she wrote in 'Tits Up,' her recent social history of the breast."

99 comments:

gilbar said...

so, this is the same as dieting USED to be? you can afford not to eat
of course,
women in the '50's were curvy..
women in the '60's were rail thin..
women in the '80's were big boobed ..
what goes around comes around

Original Mike said...

"'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"

Oh, sod off.

I like small boobs. But if a woman would change her body to please me or anyone else other than herself, the problem resides in her, not me. I would be appalled at the suggestion.

People need to accept what they are.

Sebastian said...

"men need to change" Don't we always. Women, on the other hand, are fine as they are. They don't need to change. But wait--if they want to change through surgery, that's also fine, even finer. They don't need to change, but if they feel they need to change, fine. Men just need to change to accept the change, not just accept but like the change, any change.

tim in vermont said...

Breast enlargement always said "mutton disguised as lamb" to me, but who cares what I think.

Very few Hollywood starlets have large breasts, although I was just watching Francis Ford Coppola's version of The Odyssey on Prime the other day, and Bernadette Peter's portrayal of Circe was pretty compelling, though I have to say that it was mostly her natural Greek Goddess style hair and great eye makeup, and her natural charisma that was the compelling part, and her 'assets' were mostly well covered and only hinted at. It just goes to show that there is an exception to every rule, though.

Tom T. said...

He often does five breast reductions a week

"Ironically, he used the money from all these surgeries to buy a motorboat."

Roger Sweeny said...

'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'

Always remember, if women have a problem, men are at fault.

The Vault Dweller said...

Looking online I found that over 300,000 breast augmentation surgeries were performed in the US in 2022. That was very surprising to me. I would have expected it to be an order of magnitude fewer in number.

rehajm said...

I thought the bra size moved like hemlines...smallness being en vogue in the early to mid 80s, The Young and the Breastless style...

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

Breasts are like toy trains ... they're for little kids, but grown men like to play with them.

Shouting Thomas said...

The female members of the Methodist and Catholic congregations I play for are mostly over 60. I’m hearing plenty of laments from them over the loss of the male gaze, and no complaints that they once received it. You don’t know what you got till it’s gone.

PM said...

"...smaller breasts can convey youth, girlishness, puberty, thinness....androgyny...." Yes, those are all positiv....wait, what?

rehajm said...

Quality.

dbp said...

"capitulating to a yet another impossible standard of beauty?"

They say "impossible" but since we're talking about a type of surgery which is commonly done, I think they don't really know what impossible means. Things like being in good physical condition are hard. Hard and impossible don't mean the same thing. Also, the standard of beauty is not defined or axiomatic, nor is it compulsory. People should stop falling for the idea that they are slaves being given orders which cannot be carried out. If you want to look a certain way, accept that the price may be high, monetarily or in the level of effort required.

Tina Trent said...

I had two friends choose breast reduction for their health, one choose breast enhancement to profit from her choice to be a stripper, if you can call it a choice: it was more the manifestation of mental illness. Rest in peace to the third friend. The other two enjoyed dramatic decreases in back pain, weight loss, better sleep and the ability to comfortably exercise. For them, it was a health decision suggested by their doctors. Neither did it to appeal to men.

I've lost two friends to breast cancer. While I would have supported any choice they made about breast modification after masectomies, neither opted for more surgery -- they had been through enough.

And among those who carry the gene that dramatically increases the chance of breast and ovarian cancer, I can only respect the bravery it takes to decide how to confront that medical tragedy. One high school friend lost her mother and younger sister in very quick succession. Other considerations become very small in the face of that knowledge.

Ampersand said...

I read the NYT for direction in my life. Women and men should go forward, not backward, upward, not sideways, always twisting, twisting, twisting....

Gerda Sprinchorn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Political Junkie said...

This seems consistent with the the devaluing/minimizing of men.

Political Junkie said...

Nice TT, or Tity.

Political Junkie said...

Within 100 years I predict women will eliminate tits and same sex marriage will have surpaased hetero marriage. Difference is harder than sameness.All procreation will be lab based.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I'm triggered by " to assert herself in her refusal to be ogled" since that refusal is a task beyond her will or ability. You can no more stop "the male gaze" than stop the sun from rising in the East. What is it with Leftists and their desire to control the whole world? All we can do is control how we act on things.

Heartless Aztec said...

As Raquel Welch once opined, " Once the main machinery gets in motion, they get lost in the shuffle."

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

I think she needs to change the way she thinks. In fact stop thinking so much. Yeah try that.

n.n said...

The ethics of the story is that women are not a bloc act and don't follow trends.

RideSpaceMountain said...

Smaller breasts tend to be 'perkier'. This presents no problems I'm aware of for most men unless they're gay.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne aka Doug Emhoff's Pimp Hand said...

Meh! Same thing happened in the 20's when the flapper look was all the rage.

Not that that will stop modern women and the NYT from claiming to have invented the idea.

ron winkleheimer said...

'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"

Any competent therapist will tell you that centering your happiness on how other people perceive you is not healthy.

The rule of Lemnity said...

Less is more until it isn’t.

planetgeo said...

... 'MEN,' it said. 'Which do you prefer? The aristocratic elegance of the small breasted woman OR the Nietzschean pro-sex, pro-beauty large breasted woman?'

This thread will not be complete until rhhardin has spoken. But yeah, that "aristocratic elegance" is quite a reach, so to speak.

dbp said...

It seems like an non-sequitur. In what way would men need to change? What would be the repercussions of them not changing, etc.?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

"Not only do more women want to be small; they want to be smaller." --Jerry Chidester, New York Times 2024

"One time we were getting small. And I was real small." --Steve Martin, Let's Get Small 1975

Birches said...

Eh, women in Utah have and nurse many children. After nursing for so many years, breasts are like empty tube socks. It's no surprise those women are reducing skin. Isolating Utah makes me wonder how much of a real trend this is.

tcrosse said...

Jamie Lee Curtis once said that her generous bosom was like her hair. Sometimes she wears it up, and sometimes she wears it down.

loudogblog said...

I knew a woman who was very short and had gigantic breasts. They were the bane of her existence. They gave her constant back problems and pain. Unfortunately, she could never afford a breast reduction surgery.

ron winkleheimer said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv1e8WCRKLM&t=28s

skip ahead to 2:28

Jay said...

Heroin Chic is back?

Kate said...

Came here to say the same, although not just about Utah. Pregnancy is destructive for most women's youthful bodies. It's worth the change, but it can be emotionally difficult to look like an old lady before 50 (or 40, or 30, depending on genetics).

Narr said...

I'm wondering how Nietzsche got involved.

My wife's boobs are medium-small, but fulfill all their functions marvelously. Pert and perky.

She had some busty friends who ultimately found the bodacious tatas more trouble than they're worth, and just between you and me I think it's possible to have too much of a good thing.

Narr said...

Well said.

rhhardin said...

Paglia identifies menstruation as the oppressor of women, not breasts. You think you've attained male-like intellectual indifference to something and then it's time for your period again.

Original Mike said...

"Not only do more women want to be small; they want to be smaller."

My wife is getting smaller (she says). Our 13-year-old granddaughter has surpassed her in height (which, of course, is only weak evidence that wife is getting shorter).

Yancey Ward said...

Not a Russ Meyer world any longer.'

Just my 2 cents as a guy- I don't think men in general like D-cups more than B-cups, for example. Whatever reasons women have for altering their breasts surgically is all down to their own preferences.

Michael K said...

Back when I was still in practice, I would sometimes assist in boob jobs, especially if a biopsy was wanted. Lots of boob jobs were on lesbians. Maybe it's not just men who have to "change."

Michael K said...

I saw lots of boob jobs in over 65 women.

Michael K said...

I have done subcutaneous mastectomies on a number of those women. My sister had one after a suspicious biopsy. That was 40 years ago and she is fine.

Tina Trent said...

Russ Meyer and Raquel Welch and Nietzsche. I'm surprised Lt. Uhura hasn't been mentioned.

Njall said...

Nietzsche is one of those thinkers with an inverse proportion between the number of those who mention him and those who have actually read him.

I don’t agree with a fair amount of what he wrote, but go back to him again and again for his earnestness, intellect, and (yes) humor. I don’t recall a lot about sex, feminine beauty, or big boobies. Well said.

Smilin' Jack said...

“'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"

Hee…yeah, we’ll get right on that. Please hold your breath.

Also, if it weren’t for the “male gaze” none of us would be here.

Will Cate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Will Cate said...

"independence or capitulating" << the latter.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Gutfeld often shares a photo of Nancy Pelosi in a two-piece. Hubby is not a bottle baby.

Original Mike said...

"Please hold your breath."

Heh.

Michael K said...

I agree.

n.n said...

More women... larger... smaller.... profit.

Most men like women... a woman as she is and through life's changes.

SGT Ted said...

Men are supposed to change themselves to please women, while women re not supposed to change themselves to please men. This is called "equality".

Mad Anthony Wayne said...

Speaking as a man who is fond of women’s breasts, no woman should ever alter them to please someone else. Unless it is medically needed, they are fine just the way they are. The best breasts are the ones you get to touch.

SGT Ted said...

Well played

Kevin said...

The NYT is the Mr. Miyagi of papers: Tats on, tats off, tits on, tits off.

One Fine Day said...

If anyone ever polled what men think, they would probably find that men have a stated preference but a revealed disregard for the size of the rack on the woman they love or are currently having sex with.

Leland said...

My only exception is to go with Clay Travis, "I like boobs". I don't really care the size, yet my wife's are perfect, because they are hers.

One Fine Day said...

In high school we ran a scientific experiment to determine the relationship of cup size and average grade points. For our small, Catholic HS there was almost an inverse relationship, most likely due to the small sample size. Amy [name withheld] blew the standard deviations out.

Vance said...

I was thinking about this the other day (gosh, a man think about boobs? Never...) and I concluded that I like almost all boobs. The big ones to motorboat and watch bounce; the small ones on a petite girl, the medium ones... Even Darcy on Married With Children with hardly anything still looked ok. When she wanted to.

It's far more about what a woman does with what she has than what she has. Kate Upton could look like a troll in the wrong circumstances.

I did like the toy train comparison... meant for kids, but males of all ages love to play with them!

R C Belaire said...

Some trends are less than good IMHO.

n.n said...

The existential question is: Do men think more about breasts or the Roman Empire? Do NYT editors and JournoLists think more about leverage, profit, or the Roman Empire?

Earnest Prole said...

As an authority on tits I can tell you authoritatively that small ones receive just as much or more of my male gaze than large ones.

Megaera3 said...

I recently encountered some posts from (purportedly) transgenders yearning for "top" surgery to "make them authentic" ... most of them planning to order up cup sizes in the range of the obviously grotesque, Like other commenters I had friends who were desperate for reduction surgery (rare in my younger days and rather expensive) because of their back pain, difficulty buying clothes, grooves cut in their shoulders affecting muscle and down to bone and other issues, With the kindliest intentions in the world, I wish all those trans types get exactly what they are demanding.

Aggie said...

"'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"..." Hah! The older I get, the more I'm convinced that women 'get work done' to impress other women. The men are a secondary consideration; the women are bragging about the superiority of their sexual attractiveness in defiance of their age. It's status and position-seeking within the female hierarchy, make no mistake.

There are a few exceptions, of course. The Professionals whose career is appearance driven, and of course the Trophy Wives, whose appearance is a credential.

Maynard said...

My wife had a breast reduction last year for health reasons.

Now she wonders if I still like her boobs.

I told her that size doesn't matter and she kindly reciprocated the thought.

Rocco said...

Maynard said...
"My wife had a breast reduction last year for health reasons.
Now she wonders if I still like her boobs.
I told her that size doesn't matter and she kindly reciprocated the thought.
"

It's good to know that women aren't too concerned with men's moon size.

Rocco said...

Moob size, not moon size, and definitely not moor size, lousy autocorrect.

Original Mike said...

"Do men think more about breasts or the Roman Empire?"

I think about physics and math. Is there something wrong with me, doctor?

n.n said...

Salt Lake City has undergone a character mutation through migratory evolution. A case of being too good for its own good attracting undesirable attention.

Michael K said...

Talk about grossing out!

ALP said...

Ampersand: I thought the quote used "always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."

Mary Beth said...

I saw the "breasts" tag and had to look up an old post to see if it had it. It did not, but part two did.

BUMBLE BEE said...

I don't recall where I read it but someone wrote
'if you've seen one, you've seen the other'.

Democratic Paychecks for Perks/ Dems for Demolition of Democracy/ fake-cares 4-U said...

big cartoony boobs go with big hair and shiny spandex.

Democratic Paychecks for Perks/ Dems for Demolition of Democracy/ fake-cares 4-U said...

that.
As a women who proudly rejected the boob-job craze - I concur!

Democratic Paychecks for Perks/ Dems for Demolition of Democracy/ fake-cares 4-U said...

Indeed.

Iman said...

“Let’s get small!”

—— Steve Martin, in the 70s

BUMBLE BEE said...

I have a friend who lost his wife eleven days after her first symptom. She carried the gene also. Ovarian. She was two Covid shots + booster. mRNA turbo cancer? SHHHH!

policraticus said...

My great grandmother looked like a Gibson girl, all bosoms and coiffure. My grandmother looked like a flapper, lean and boyish. Her hair was cropped, her dark, khol rimmed eyes desperately wanted to look mysterious. My mother usually attempeted to take a page from Sophia Loren, hour glass, permenent wave and casually elegance. My wife took notes from the New Wave, offset bobs, little or no make up, clothes thrifted, or stolen from me and repurposed and usually too baggy to more than hint at what lay beneath.

I think I can speak for all my forefathers, indeed even for those stretching back into history to the beginnings of humanity, when I say that what men want in boobs is not great size, nor small size, not enhancements, nor reductions. What men want is access.

Honestly, that is about it. Be happy with your breast size, ladies. We like you regardless. And if there be any man so small minded to decline your company because of your bosoms, large or small, consider yourself lucky to avoid their company.

boatbuilder said...

. 'If women are going to have an emancipated rack,' she said, 'then men need to change.'"

Good luck with that.

boatbuilder said...

The last time I was in Utah, I was at Snowbasin, and they were filming "The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" at the lodge at the top of the lifts.

There was a fair amount of augmentation in evidence.

Narr said...

Clausewitz is up there with Nietzsche in the "often mentioned, seldom read" department. He didn't have much to say about breasteses either, though.

Narr said...

My wife is far more critical of her imperfections of face and form than I am, and I suspect I'm not alone among husbands in that.

She always looked younger than her years; when people would comment on it I just told them to credit her pact with Satan, but I think he's starting to welsh on the deal.

William said...

I have an open mind on the subject. I do wish, however, that some women would consider bariatric surgery. I really hate it when there are suppurating sores under the rolls of fat, and especially when such sores give off an unpleasant odor. I'm not saying it's a total deal breaker, but it does distract from a woman's over all appeal.

n.n said...

So, the Roman Empire: calculating and forceful.

Yancey Ward said...

Rocco owes me a new keyboard.

Oso Negro said...

I suspect that not three women in one hundred are satisfied with their tits. Men, on the other hand, are simply satisfied that they have them. And men like variety. If their woman is small-breasted, they will be interested to see bigger breasts. If their woman is large-breasted, then smaller breasts provide the satisfying variety. Do what you want, ladies, we're not changing. But please, no duck lips!

traditionalguy said...

Men first get enamored by the 10 to 12 year old girls our age. And most of us still like that sexual arousal. Décolletag is the thing. Not fluffy pillows. And then there is hips and legs.

dubbyhesspdx said...

The itty bitty titty committee.

Will Cate said...

Memo to Sarah Thornton: men don't change.

pacwest said...

More than a mouthful is wasted.

RMc said...

the Nietzschean pro-sex, pro-beauty large breasted

This just in: Nietzsche had big knockers.

West TX Intermediate Crude said...

Tempest in a C cup.

Commie Videos and You a Law Professor said...

This string is an homage to Titus.

Political Junkie said...

Miss Titus. Anybody know about Titus or when he last posted?

walter said...

Consider the gravity of the situation.

Zev said...

the women don't have agency, they're "capitulating" - feminists talking down to women (as usual)