That's the subheadline of a NYT piece by Peter Baker,
"Gallows Humor and Talk of Escape: Trump’s Possible Return Rattles Capital."“It’s definitely been a topic of conversation,” said Steven A. Cook, a Middle East scholar at the Council on Foreign Relations. Mr. Cook has no personal reason to fear Mr. Trump’s “retribution” but dreads the onset of a more autocratic form of government like that he has seen in places like Egypt and Pakistan.
His possible refuge? Abu Dhabi, he said, acknowledging the irony that “a little Jewish kid from Long Island” might feel safer in the United Arab Emirates than his homeland.
“Perhaps because we’re in Washington and it’s a bubble, maybe we’re overplaying it,” Mr. Cook said. “But it’s not as hard to imagine as it once was. Until relatively recently, I shared the idea that the United States was sprinkled in fairy dust and it couldn’t happen here. But too much has happened and maybe it could.”
With Mr. Cook, leaving is just talk for now. But others are going further. They have researched family history to see if they could qualify for a passport from, say, Ireland, Poland or Germany. They have been updating passports and looking for property to buy in Europe. Some have hired lawyers to explore their options....
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106 comments:
Like Neil Young leaving Spotify, the threat is hollow. I’ve learned not to be disappointed when they don’t follow through…
Like Neil Young leaving Spotify, the threat is hollow. I’ve learned not to be disappointed when they don’t follow through…
Washington Dinner Party...fuck em all.
More autocratic than we have now?
Asking for a friend.
but dreads the onset of a more autocratic form of government like that he has seen in places like Egypt and Pakistan.
If only there were some history of Trump as a leader of a country in which he could base his fears upon To go from fear to rational decision. And maybe he could compare the treatment of Jews in this country now and 4 years ago. If only there were information available. If only...
Man the left are proving to be bigger idiots that I took them for before.
"I shall return" -- Douglas MacArthur
They always say they're going to leave= and they never do
Promise breakers all around.
In DC a more "Autocratic form of Government" means that the rest of the country wants these bloodsucking tics out of our lives and they have to go get real jobs where they do something other than wasting our money and telling us what to do.
"With Mr. Cook, leaving is just talk for now."
Has anyone ever left the USA because of a new president? I'd say the over/under for that group is maybe 50.
Sadly, they won't go into voluntary exile.
"I shared the idea that the United States was sprinkled in fairy dust and it couldn’t happen here. But too much has happened and maybe it could.”
Look around, asshole. Political prisoners, show trials, rioting, support for genocidal Muslim rapists/murderers, massive inflation, unemployment, endless wars and a president who's a turnip. "Maybe it could"? It's happening right now.
“Perhaps because we’re in Washington and it’s a bubble, maybe we’re overplaying it [about where to go into exile].”
Gee- ya think? What a maroon.
"They have been updating passports and looking for property to buy in Europe. Some have hired lawyers to explore their options...."
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
I wish.
"“Perhaps because we’re in Washington and it’s a bubble, maybe we’re overplaying it,” Mr. Cook said. “But it’s not as hard to imagine as it once was."
Mr. Cook doesn't have to imagine anything. Trump has already been President and none of these people's bullshit fantasies came to pass.
I often wonder if any of these people really exist or are just made up from whole cloth by journalists. Because you really have to be stupid to believe their fantasies.
And just as Cook was starting to recover from the beatings in the Gulag during Trump's first term.
Based on what evidence? The past four censorious, autocratic shutdown years? The absolutely toxic environment that they, themselves created the last time Trump was in office, maybe? Go ! Don't go away mad, don't tell us where, just go (this time). We'll help you pack.
What happened to Canada, or is that reserved for show-biz personalities?
I thought Canada was the place to go. Why isn’t Justin Trudeau the perfect leader for them? Weren’t they going to leave the country if Bush was reelected? These so-called elites don’t have an original thought in their heads. You would think that Mr. Cook, the little Jewish kid from Long Island, would be more concerned about the anti-Semitic protests going on under Biden than the election of the pro-Israel Trump.
Something about rats, and sinking ships . . .
We should encourage such people to leave.
Uh oh, the Kool Kidz are worried.
I wonder why.
Grins.
Shut the fuck up and do it. What a bunch of bitches. I gotta say, the current class of elites are all morons. If they get what they want, the lack of skills outside of memorizing instructions and sneering at their fellow man while attempting to enslave them is gonna lead to fun times when a few get literally skinned.
Hell would be my first preference.
But let's start with some maximum security federal pen in the middle of nowhere.
Hillary goes first...
We could only hope for a mass migration out of DC to foreign countries. Ahh...the thought of it brings a smile.
Meanwhile, back in reality, didn't Trump already serve four years as President? And didn't he accomplish quite a bit while fighting off fake DOJ dossier-fed investigations and bullshit Adam Schiff impeachments? Didn't he do all this without being a Totalitarian?
So...why the disconnected hyperbole?
I remember Democrats talking about fleeing to exile in Canada after the election of the second George Bush nearly a quarter-century ago. It sounded stupid then and it sounds stupid now.
"a more autocratic form of government like that he has seen in places like Egypt and Pakistan."
So these people live in work in Washington, as government functionaries or contractors or party apparatchiks, and they see that when Trump wins, the government functionaries will all move en masse, into Trump's camp to "protect their phoney baloney jobs"?
Interesting. I guess it's like how all the Southern racists switched to the Republican party after the Democrat party failed to stop the Republicans from voting in the Civil Rights Act?
What we have here is a failure of critical thought. Unless these people do believe they are at risk of a DOJ no longer in the throes of orgasmic bonding with the Democratic party.
Oh, I most definitely want to see that little Jewish guy go live in Abu Dhabi. Honestly, the entire cadre of these people might just be better off killing themselves.
With that out of they way- none of these cretins actually believe the shit they say, and not a single one of them will leave the country if Trump becomes President again, and not a single one of them will be persecuted.
Unfortunately Trump is much more forgiving than the democrat tyrants running things now. I HOPE he goes on a massive firing spree. McConnell/Ryan won’t be there to threaten impeachment. And so damn what if he does. If the Republicans have the senate they can just refuse to do it, like Schumer and the democrats just did.
It is an amazing bubble they are in that they do not see and understand that THEY are the tyrants.
Republican Convention, June 1900; "Republican National Chairman Mark Hanna was glum. "Don't any of you realize," he cried, "that there's only one life between this madman and the White House?" He was horrified when "that damned cowboy," as he called TR, became President upon McKinley's death in September 1901,"
https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/waughj/classes/gildedage/private/gilded_age_politics/history/bio_roosevelt.html
Trump is just another President, in the mold of Andrew Jackson, Lincoln, and TR. The establishment has hated all of them.
Now departing from Launch Complex 42, Golgafrincham Space Ark B... All aboard!
Yeah, Cook should move to Abu Dubai and hang with the leaders of Hamas.
Do these idiots know what form of government Abu Dubai has? A monarchy! Run by a Muslim dictator.
These people should definitely leave and not come back. They’re liberal fascists. They don’t believe in democracy.
Don't we hear and read about this every Presidential election, especially if a Republican gets in?
Based on his comments Peter Baker is poorly educated as he seems painfully ignorant of our country's form of government, which makes an "autocracy" extremely difficult if not impossible to implement. That he's thinking about Abu Dhabi as a refuge tells me he's not interested in roughing it. Also ironic in that it was the Trump administration who faciliated the Abraham Accords with the UAE and made Abu Dhabi a more hospitable place for Jews than it might have been before.
We should be so lucky! May they return to the Island of Dr. Moreau, from whence they came!
The real “gallows humor” surrounds where the hell we’ll all be if Joe dies (which is NOT and unlikely event), and we’re stuck with President Kamala. God help us all.
Their deepest fear is change. Life in the uterus of risk free gamesmanship is so good.
If only.... I've been hearing these empty threats since Reagan. How can we miss the swamp creatures if they won't go away?
The 300-lb couple I mentioned in a previous post were retired educators from a private university in WV. The night after the 2016 general election, their dog had died and then Trump was the President-elect. They were livid, fired up even more by Rachel Maddow's vituperations, and they thought they might relocate to Thailand (!) where one of their sons was living. They had severely limited mobility and I'm not sure they could physically tolerate such a move.
I was sympathetic but didn't let on that I had mixed feelings about Trump but felt relieved that Hillary Clinton wasn't successful in her run. I left it at "well, this was some kind of day, wasn't it?"
It's a reasonable question. They're the first group of Americans since 1860 who decided they're to raise hell instead of accepting the results of an election. I'm not going to hurt them, but I'm not going to shame anyone who wants to.
I fail to understand the fear of an autocratic government during a Trump second term. Most of what he will be doing is reversing Biden's autocratic executive orders and regulations.
I wish to caution all right-minded Althousians not to display eager delight at the prospect of those Washington dinner party attendees' embryonic plans to depart these shores to blight other lands giving birth to actual emigrations, lest they divine our brilliant scheme to be rid of washed-up actors and tone-deaf musicians, garbage collectors posing as artistes, environmentally-aware bankruptcy mongers, trans-gender generals, and anal-sexual admirals. So shush, mum's the word... Weep in public. Horse laugh in private.
I find it hard to believe that they would not find Canada a satisfactory alternative.
They all did OK when trump was POTUS the first time. This is just more Liberal/left hysteria. "I'm goin move to Europe/Canada if Trump is elected".
And then they NEVER move. I repeat They always get hysterial. Always bloviate and NEVER move.
Just shut up libtards.
Most people, especially Boomers, don't seem to mind people shooting mouths off, bloviating, and talking about how they're goin' to this, or gonin' do that.... because By God, they're not going to stand for it!
Me? I hate that crap. I've listened too many clowns in real life whine and cry and complain that "By God, my boss can take this job and shove it" or "I'm not taking it anymore from that bitch I'm getting a divorce" or "I swear this is my last drink, my doctor told me..." or "We've moving! After they did X, I can't stay here anymore!"
And.. they don't quit their job, they don't divorce their wife, they don't move, and they don't quit drinking. But they DO Keep whining and bloviating.
We had 4 years of president trump demonstrating that he is the most non/anti fascist president ever.
What the hell are these people smoking?
I know, I know. I'm the 5th or 6th person to say this here.
John Henry
Why don’t they convince Cuba to let them be refugees?
but dreads the onset of a more autocratic form of government like that he has seen in places like Egypt and Pakistan.
For me, the key to squaring the circle of why so many people genuinely seem to think of Trump as "autocratic" when, well, he was already President for four years and (a) didn't override Congress or the courts and (b) peacefully left the White House albeit with much grumbling, is that he was willing to override the unelected civil service (e.g. on steel and aluminium tariffs). And the professional educated classes see the civil service -- not the elected branches -- as the means by which their interests, values, and priorities are implemented in the government.
I heard a story once about when the Arthur Andersen prosecution was being considered at the Department of Justice. Now, the conviction was overturned unanimously by the Supreme Court, which, to a reasonable observer, would suggest that the judgment of the DOJ prosecutors in bringing the case was questionable. Their insistence on twisting the definition of "corruptly" in the jury instructions so that it no longer required the defendant to act "dishonestly" was a tell for the limits of what their evidence could actually show -- this proved their undoing in the end, even if they got what they wanted, viz. the destruction and dissolution of the exonerated defendant.
Now to the story: the night before they filed the indictment, President Bush II apparently called the prosecutor and asked about whether he was going to indict one of the big 5 accounting firms. And the prosecutor said yes, while worrying that Bush II was going to pull the plug on the prosecution before he could pull the trigger. But Bush II said okay, and let the prosecutors proceed on their merry way. This was told to me as a risky story about how close they came to political interference in the prosecutorial process. Which, I think, is the usual reaction of the professional class. While my reaction was that it was a reprehensible instance of cowardice on Bush II's part. That he sat back and just let this happen.
But that's the sort of "autocracy" they are worried about. They cling to conspiracy theories about January 6 because it's the closest they can come to finding facts that fit their prior narrative of "Trump the autocrat," but they thought Trump was autocratic and dictatorial long before the Captoline Riot.
Harkonnens probably feared the Atreides in similar ways, it is remarkable act of unselfawareness, where attys for the president have been disbarred, some advisors chained like zeks, et al, where he was proscribed from the official platforms for opinions,
Spare us from the pot-boiler psychodramas of over-credentialed mediocre shitheads!
tcrosse said...
What happened to Canada, or is that reserved for show-biz personalities?
Even though they want to force something like it on the rest of us, they don't want to deal with the bureaucratic healthcare system.
Papua New Guinea. It’s a young and hungry country.
Washington Dinner Parties
"Some have hired lawyers to explore their options."
Baker didn't name these "some," but those are the ones who will actually be moving -- and not for the reasons they purport. They are scared of justice, not of "autocracy" or "retribution." I was surprised to find no mention of "extradition" in the whole article, but the word is certainly prominent in the conversations with those lawyers.
That is why these principled nameless champions of Our Democracy and Rule of Law will be taking up residence in North Korea, or perhaps Iran, before Jan. 20.
Why do they get to exhibit the sturm und drang, wallowing in it for all to read, but those of us who support Trump get censored and shamed?
I guess we can take pride in our stoicism. Or our masochism.
Is there anything more tired than the story how the Democrats are going to leave the country if a Republican is elected president? Every fucking time they say they will leave and they never do.
North Korea or China - they can all go there. China needs organ donors and North Korea can always use new members for the People's Farm Program. Or Cuba - they always need warm bodies to harvest the sugar cane.
Richard, they don't threaten to move to Canada anymore because you have to be smart, or at least capable of earning a living, to get into Canada.
Looking to buy real estate in Europe?
Just how wealthy are these "poor" civil servants?
These people expect from others what they themselves would do in their place.
These people expect from others what they themselves would do in their place.
Canada or Australia. Perfect locales for these fascist/barbarians to relocate to. They'll feel right at home, as long as they repeat the government's mantra: STFU and obey us!
I propose that Trump announce 90% Reduction in Force layoffs. Then the leaches can go to Canada. The country will celebrate its liberation from the tyrants in Federal employ.
On the subject of fleeing the US should Trump win the election (as with so many other political subjects), when all is said and done, much more will have been said than will have been done.
Maybe they could go to Ukraine and sign up to fight?
Frankly, if Donald Trump celebrated his election by exacting retribution for the lawfare, It. Would. Be. Very. Well. Deserved.
I did not read all the comments nor the article itself, but was there any discussion about, maybe, just maybe, working with Trump this time as opposed to trying to trip him up at every turn?
Let me suggest: All-white Washington DC Dinner Parties.
People that are worried about reelectioning Trump have no faith in our Deep State to keep things running smoothly.
Do unto others, what you would have done unto you.
They could pick up a condo in Gaza pretty cheap right now.
This time, let's hold them to it. Trump wins - anyone who promised to move away, must do so.
I don't care where they go, only that they do so posthaste, and never darken a door in Washington again.
“Richard, they don't threaten to move to Canada anymore because you have to be smart, or at least capable of earning a living, to get into Canada.”
Moreover, you need to come back here to the US to get prompt and thorough healthcare. No Medicare Advantage for you.
I note they are entirely uninterested in moving out of DC for interior parts of the United States, even in one of the many deep blue states or cities. They rather move to another country. And they wonder why Trump is able to gain so many supporters that loath them? It really is a reflection of them.
@Balfegor at 12:08: "...when the Arthur Andersen prosecution was being considered at the Department of Justice. Now, the conviction was overturned unanimously by the Supreme Court, which, to a reasonable observer, would suggest that the judgment of the DOJ prosecutors in bringing the case was questionable. Their insistence on twisting the definition of "corruptly" in the jury instructions so that it no longer required the defendant to act "dishonestly" was a tell..."
Let us not forget who was in charge of that prosecution: Andrew Weismann, who in the same saga went on to disassemble Enron, and later became the Mueller Investigation's chief pilot, Russian collusion fanboy; not to mention the gent who now goes on the weekly phone calls to plot the upcoming and perennial lawfare cases against Trump.
A pall on the landscape of civil society, a walking blight. A cancer on the legal profession.
To everyone saying "Since Trump was already President, what are these babies scared about?":
Their new talking point is that Trump's first term still had "good Republicans" to curb Trump's excesses and foil him etc. (They hated these people at the time, but pretend they didn't now)
Oh what bullshit, these spineless pussies always threaten to leave the country and none of them ever do, ignorant fascist twats. I hope, sincerely hope, that they believe and take to heart every spittle flecked turd of bullshit that they imagine, every bit. I revel in the hope that they spend years agonizing in anticipation of the institution of the horrors that they imagine. I also hope that the stress ruins their lives before they all die a slow, painful death so the world can be rid of them and their ilk to be a better place. But, that's just me.
" working with Trump this time as opposed to trying to trip him up at every turn?" . Hah, you impute common sense and decency that they, demonstrably, are incapable of.
Anyone even tangentially involved with the Russian collusion hoax ought to be looking to places without extradition, based on the performance of the Biden DOJ.
"Their new talking point is that Trump's first term still had "good Republicans" to curb Trump's excesses and foil him etc."
Pity there are no "good Democrats" willing to curb Biden's excesses and foil him etc.
"But, that's just me."
No, it's not.
Like the Clint Eastwood character in 'High Plains Drifter', Trump is perceived as dangerous and must be defeated at all costs. After they have used a number of dirty tricks so far that are unprecedented, who can know what they won't do.
I would assume they are looking at countries without extradition agreements with the U.S. These people are not afraid of a Trump presidency and how he would governed the country. They are worried about their crimes over the past few years being uncovered and prosecuted. Ukraine may be their choice destination. No extradition treaty and plenty of U.S. dollars already sent there to pave their way.
I would assume they are looking at countries without extradition agreements with the U.S. These people are not afraid of a Trump presidency and how he would governed the country. They are worried about their crimes over the past few years being uncovered and prosecuted. Ukraine may be their choice destination. No extradition treaty and plenty of U.S. dollars already sent there to pave their way.
I would pay them to leave.
I wonder if these people threatening to leave ever wonder if those threats make others more inclined do vote for Trump.
Where to go into exile? I have three or four suggestions.
1. Cuba. Nice weather except for the hurricanes. Great schools and free healthcare. Bring your own antibiotics and bandages.
2. Venezuela. Again, nice weather if you can afford air conditioning. If you’re fighting your weight you’ll be glad to know most Venezuelans have lost weight since the communists have taken over.
3. North Korea. At roughly the same latitude as northern California, the weather is usually mild except in the winters. Like Venezuela you’re almost certain to lose those pesky extra pounds on a typical Korean diet of dog and grass clippings. You’ll need to bring your own furniture to use for firewood during those chilly winter nights.
4. Hell. If you hate America so much that you fear the return of a strong economy, low unemployment and you loathe the idea of staying out of foreign wars that are not our concern, well, you can go to hell.
"where to go into exile if the former president reclaims the White House"?
How to say you're not our countryman, without saying "I'm not your countryman."
There are not enough doorknobs in America to hit in the fat, droopy asses of these imbeciles when the doors slam shut behind them on their way out.
Here are some "action items" we need to get moving on, to make sure this turns out the right way:
1. Dems like to pay bail for their miscreant supporters, and arrange big funds to carry out this vital crime-promotion work. We need to arrange big funds to pay for the one-way relocation of these progressives, to one or more progressive shit-hole countries, preferably further away than Canada, though with the right "one-way" assurances, Canada would work. (I've heard Papua New Guinea is nice, any time of year. Be careful if they ask you over "for dinner", though!)
2. This gift needs to be properly conditioned so as to assure no round trips, ever. EVAH! Let's get our crack team of lawyers, headed up by Prof. Althouse, to work on the binding, irreversible, perpetual, unbreakable agreement that they'll have to sign on the way to the one-way jet. We want some iron-clad boilerplate!
3. Just in case, we want to assure that our border patrol keeps their eyes peeled for this riff-raff, so they can't ever return. ("Did they ever return, no they never returned, and their fates are still unlearned [poor old Charlie]", etc., etc.)
4. It's a lot of money and a lot of work, but it's bound to be worth it. They can belly-ache all they want, but this time they better mean it.
They keep threatening to leave if their guy loses the next election, and we keep voting against their guy.
When are they going to take the hint??
Interesting how the "little Jewish guy from Long Island" would rather seek refuge in Abu Dhabi than in Israel. Likely an "AsAJew" Jew, who is deeply uncomfortable about religious and Zionist Jews.
"Dark jokes abound about where to go into exile ... "
Please leave a forwarding address.
To paraphrase an old lawyer joke:
Question: "What do you call 10,000 DC insiders suddenly moving to Europe because Trump is re-elected?"
Answer: "A good start."
I love it when a swamp auto-drains...
Among Ds, lots of jokes. Among Ds, no introspection.
Let me suggest: All-white Washington DC Dinner Parties.
@MadMan, not 100% white. There are plenty of people of color in DC that are suitable for inviting to be tokens at parties.
Have a Midwest college grad friend who lives w/his East Coast big-city wife in DC suburb filled w/federal bigshots and federal contract-dependent executives. They're coming up on retirement. He wants to retire to Great Lakes area. She told us she is "fearful of Midwest mindset" and "isn't sure she can adjust", as if Midwest is filled with rednecks who don't read NYT and WP, probably oblivious to how snobby that sounds to us Midwesterners. Honey, there are Ivy League grads and blue-bloods here too.
Yeah, don't let the door hit you on your way out. Lions and tigers and Trump, oh my...
They should be encouraged to leave by fake 'insider' stories of what Trump will do to all of them.
IMHO, the real threat to the Washington establishment is all the red-state AG's and governors who will engage in lawfare payback. DJT probably won't spend much time draining the swamp, but he'll take down its defenses and let it all play out.
This is like a Saturday Night Live scrip from the 1970s. Total derangement. We ARE living in a Government controlled state right now. Confiscation of taxes to pay off degenerate "students". Allowing criminals to overrun the country from within and without. Ah, but the angst in the grand salons of DC and Martha's Vineyard. So tragic.
John Brennan should take the first flight to Russia after Trump's reelected. Otherwise, he'll be for the long jump. Treason. This applies to all the others who promoted the Russian Collusion Hoax.
These fatuous asses with their talk of "exile" are trying to out DeNiro Robert DeNiro.
That's not a good look.
I totally agree about getting another passport. When Biden was elected, I put that in motion. My additional passport is, proudly: Israeli citizen.
"Has anyone ever left the USA because of a new president?"
Well there was the 100,000 Illegals Eisenhower rounded up.
To any student of American history, this sounds remarkably like the reaction of official Washington to the 1828 election of Andrew Jackson.
RCOCEAN II said...
"Most people, especially Boomers, don't seem to mind people shooting mouths off, bloviating, and talking about how they're goin' to this, or gonin' do that.... because By God, they're not going to stand for it!
Me? I hate that crap. I've listened too many clowns in real life whine and cry and complain that "By God, my boss can take this job and shove it" or "I'm not taking it anymore from that bitch I'm getting a divorce" or "I swear this is my last drink, my doctor told me..." or "We've moving! After they did X, I can't stay here anymore!"
And.. they don't quit their job, they don't divorce their wife, they don't move, and they don't quit drinking. But they DO Keep whining and bloviating."
And yet you're not in Gaza.
I’d happily contribute to the purchase of an airline ticket for Mr. Ocean, Rusty. He could run for his life, in lieu of running his yapper.
"She told us she is "fearful of Midwest mindset" and "isn't sure she can adjust", as if Midwest is filled with rednecks who don't read NYT and WP, probably oblivious to how snobby that sounds to us Midwesterners. Honey, there are Ivy League grads and blue-bloods here too."
You say that like it';\s a good thing.
I recommend Yemen.
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