The judge was using Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself," which famously begins:
I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
April 11, 2024
"In sharing her preferred title and pronouns, Ms Wood celebrates herself and sings herself – not in a disruptive or coercive way, but in a way that subtly vindicates her identity, her dignity, and her humanity."
Wrote federal district judge Mark Walker, quoted in "Florida can’t ban teacher from asking students to use her preferred pronouns, judge rules/Katie Wood, a transgender algebra teacher, has long gone by ‘Ms Wood’ but the law required students to say 'Teacher Wood'" (Guardian).
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70 comments:
Appeal time.
The FoS issue here is not the perv's freedom to impose his delusion on others but the student's right to be free from speech coercion.
He cited the wrong Whitman passage.
She sounds her barbaric yawp.
It is time for public schools to go.
People can ask to be called whatever they want. If some man wants to pretend to be a woman and steal DEI set asides for women that is their prerogative.
I should not be forced to pay her salary with my tax dollars.
if she has PhD just call Doctor Wood with Dr Jill permission slip!
Doesn't that also subtly undermine the purpose of the law and beliefs of people who do not subscribe to the trans religion. Bad judges make bad law.
So, the students are free to address her as Teacher "Weirdo".
Sauce is good for gander and goose, or is that goose and goose?
Fuck these people.
They are fetishists and they're demanding that we buy into their perversions.
Do what you want in private, but don't inflict your bullshit on me, because I won't play.
I would just stick with 'Yo, dude' or 'Hey man.'
I can't tell if the teacher is MtF or FtM.
9x7=61 and no one can say it doesn't.
Asking for something when there is a major power imbalance pushes close to coercion.
Preferred pronouns are a slippery slope at best. The wholesale use of "her" in the article would also seem to be forcing people to acknowledge a counter-factual. The teacher in question is trans and thus a male.
Question: Since "she" is free to suggest "her" preferred pronouns would a student be free to refer to the teacher as Mr. Wood (their preferred pronouns for the teacher)?
In the same vein, why do newspapers get to write stuff like this:
widely known as the “Don’t Say Gay” law
The law has a title (it's preferred pronoun?) and is only "widely known" by that other title by its detractors.
"Teacher" isn't a pronoun. What if the preferred "pronoun" is "Your Highness", is that OK too?
Also, in the judges ruling, Walker refers to "Ms. Wood" while decrying how awful the state is. Judge, heal thyself.
“Asking” without punishment for refusing or demanding?
This is a good ruling.
Schools also can’t force students into using preferred pronouns either,
A student who says Mr. Wood is protected from any punishment.
“But I’m a woman.”
“You’re a man.”
“Go the principals office now.@
“No, Mr. Wood.”
“You are disrespecting me.”
“Refusing to coddle your delusions is not disrespect. Disrespect is trying to punish me for acknowledging reality.”
The teacher can ask to be called by whatever pronouns she/he desires; the real question is whether the court/school will force students to abide by this wish, which would seem to be a violation of their free speech rights.
Also, good to see the judge using the widely-approved Constitutional construction principles of, not originalism or "living Constitution," but the precepts of Walt Whitmanism. Solid judging, there.
The government defends the right of perverts to groom your children. Send your kids to our schools, they will be groomed by our perverts. Because that's the way our perverts like it.
Whitman, BTW, was a pervert.
What this boils down to, is making the serious people treat the unserious people like serious people.
And if she thinks she's a different species, including an imaginary one like a dragon? How does that work, Your Honor?
Mentally ill people teaching students. Flee public schools while you can.
This is the kind of thing "progressive" societies focus on, day after day, forever.
Human relations must now be decided by judges and government human relations commissions. This is not sustainable.
That seems fine. There's nothing unusual about teachers telling their students how they will be addressed. But if she abuses her platform to promote trans activism or normalize gender reassignment, she should be removed.
I don't think Walt meant he was trapped in the wrong body, and brutal, permanent, life-altering surgery would somehow make things better--for example, by treating mental illness. He meant he wanted his natural gay sexuality to be accepted. An acceptance and celebration of nature, not a repudiation of it or a high-tech attack on it.
So much wrong (maybe from both directions)...
"cannot prohibit ... teacher from asking her students"
I haven't read the legislation, but prohibited from even asking? There's a lot of room between asking and getting.
The decision ... is a blow to an anti-LGBTQ law championed by Ron DeSantis
Anti? Is this an opinion piece?
widely known as the “Don’t Say Gay” law
How about, "as known by its opponents even if the word gay isn't in the legislation?"
We need a little separation of school and state. That way we can kill two (or 67,000) birds with one stone. The use of force changes everything.
I wonder what would happen if Ms Wood asked the students to join her in prayer to God.
Would the Left's collective heads explode?
Can't stop him from asking - can't force students to comply. Seems reasonable. If there is a problem with this, I guess the Superintendent can decide which classes he's put in charge of - as well as provide instruction on what curriculum is to be taught.
“Refusing to coddle your delusions is not disrespect. Disrespect is trying to punish me for acknowledging reality.”
Sounds like you would also approve of the teacher correctly calling the students who deserve it 'dumbass'. Don't want to coddle their delusions.
It's a narrow ruling that granted an injunction which prevents the state from enforcing the prohibition by using employment actions against this particular individual while the case proceeds.
It seems to leave open the question of what happens if students refuse to follow Wood's request for reference by the preferred title.
The judge notes that the First Amendment rights of the students are not involved so he may have felt that Wood's requests were unenforceable in the classroom.
What is it with federal judges? Time and time again they come across as arrogant narcissists.. I remember a judge ruling that same-sex marriage was legal in his state (before the Sup Ct ruling), and he used the language, “And still we rise” in the decision. It made me want to gag. What does that have to do with the law? Wax poetic in your journal.
I confess, I do love Whitman. “When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom’d,” etc. But he opened the door for a lot of mediocrities and talentless hacks who don’t have a fraction of his talent (whether poets, journalists, or judges, etc.). When he was singing of himself, he was also singing of nature, and of America, and of all sorts of symbols and connections. He wasn’t merely a self-worshipper.
If he that wishes to be she is Norwegian then s/he is also Norwegian Wood.
I once had a girl
Or should I say she once had me
She showed me her room
Isn't it good Norwegian Wood
Good for her she got the Obama judge.
Teachers are role models for most children who don’t have normal parents. Taking that away from them the better to celebrate weirdos is evil. No matter how good a writer old Walt was, teachers like MDs should first do no harm. But today the lawless scum want to see how much harm they can get away with and award trophies for the harm they do.
"I haven't read the legislation, but prohibited from even asking?"
You had the same question I had, Scott. There is something missing in this story, and I suspect that the teacher in question got upset when some of the students and faculty refused to comply with her "wishes", and that is why they tried to dismiss her.
District Judge Walker is an Obama appointed committed Democrat with a long line of anti-DeSantis rulings.
We need to replace our public school systems with schools funded by parent vouchers.
Whatever.
- Zavier Onasses (Your Lordship / Your Lordship / Your Lordship's)
So the teacher can ASK to be addressed as "Ms", but suppose the student declines the invitation? "MR. Wood, did you forget to shave this morning?"
The usual Althousian preverts are getting all prostate over pronouns. Comedy Gold.
The simplest way to square this circle is to stop executing a fighting retreat regarding "free speech" and acknowledge it has always just been a battle between who gets to force the other side to say what. The whole thing started when the other side demanded to be freed from our blasphemy laws in the age of secularism enlightenment, and it ends with us either reinstating them, or kowtowing to their own.
The demons' masks slip yet again. And while I appreciate why honest people believe this is still something worth saving, they aren't going to quit until we banish them entirely, it's just a question of when, not if.
"For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you."
Bob Dylan 60 years ago:
"I am SO stealing that!"
Thus:
"Ain't no use you talkin' to me, same as me talkin" to you"
You can call me "Chief" if you want to. Just don't call me late for dinner.
And if Ms. Wood is just a guy in a dress, well I'll call him "Teacher".
And I'm thinking Ms. Wood is doing much more societal damage than the Vietnamese embezzler.
I wonder if Ms Wood misses wood. I would.
mark walker is nearly always wrong in these matters, not only the wrong principle, but at the wrong stage of action,
Often we have cases where one person's freedom is at loggerheads with another person's freedom. Here the teacher is free but the student is not. You can say it is a request, but the student may fear retaliation if they don't comply, say a bad grade.
We allow conflict of interest laws for situations like this, usually for the one who has more power, like a prosecutor, boss, or a teacher. I think the conflict of interest route would be a better remedy here as there is an imbalance of power that will coerce the student to comply. The students are minor children who don't understand their rights as well.
A conflict of interest rule limits professional behavior that has a high potential to be against the interest of the citizen.
I didn’t know Whitman had been a federal judge. Another example of a federal judge becoming a law unto himself.
"In sharing her preferred title and pronouns, Ms Wood celebrates herself and sings herself – not in a disruptive or coercive way, but in a way that subtly vindicates her identity, her dignity, and her humanity."
Nothing subtle, and not dignified. If this person had dignity, s/he would not need to impose his/her belief system upon children under his/her care. This is a person with stunted emotional development, probably not fit to teach children.
The law requires the students to say “Teacher Wood”? Using “Teacher” instead of, say, “Professor”, in a college context? Is that the way all teachers should be addressed, according to this law? I’ve never heard of this outside this trans case. Maybe I’m just old and forgetful. A law about how to address your teacher seems a bit of an overreach imho.
I do think it’s ok to ask, but not ok to react poorly if students don’t use the requested preferred pronouns or titles. I hope Teacher Wood teaches a subject that doesn’t rely on facts, biology, or reality though. That’d be a tough sell.
Judge Walker must have studied legal writing under Justice Kennedy with the same airy-fairy "Ah sweet mystery of life" affect burbling through. Mr. Wood of course is not "sharing" his pronouns but mandating them in accord with his SM needs.
“Refusing to coddle your delusions is not disrespect. Disrespect is trying to punish me for acknowledging reality.”
I assume that you would also be OK with the teacher calling the students who deserve it 'dumbass' as we don't want to coddle any delusions in the classroom.
I wonder if Ms Wood misses wood. I would.
A posting on X/Twitter calls on folks: {quoting…}
Why can't people just be nice to trans people and get on with their lives?
Like just be nice to trans people. They're pretty chill
{/unQuote}
Cbucksrules [@cbucksrules] replies: {quoting…}
I was nice to trans people.
When transwomen complained they didn't have a space to fit in, I said, like many others who wanted to be nice "you can sit with us lesbians".
Then they wanted more.
They wanted that we see them as real women.
They wanted us to see them as sexual partners even when they knew we were homosexuals.
They wanted us to see their girl d cks as a female organ and non threatening. Also mouthfeel... All we needed to do was to see them as female and then we would be able to cope.
They wanted that we stop talking about our biology and bodies because they felt excluded.
They wanted that we see them as the same and believe them when they complained about periods and pains.
They wanted that we stop talking about our homosexuality in the space we invited them in because they felt excluded.
They wanted that we stopped any mentions of vaginas, and female sex organs whilst inundating our spaces with conversations around male genitalia.
When they realised that we weren't complying, they banned myself and other homosexual women from the space we invited them in.
They called us bigots, TERFs, hateful, c nts and kicked us out of our own spaces.
When the majority of us were out, they got more daring and started writing r pe fantasy posts about r ping lesbians. They shared tips on how to sexually coerce and guilt trip homosexual women into sex with them.
I was nice to trans people. And they repaid that kindness by decimating the spaces we invited them in. And by sexually coercing homosexual women.
Lesbians like me made one single mistake. And that was to listen to trans people and be nice to them.
Never again.
{/unQuote}
If I recall 10th grade correctly, you can ask your students to call you something. But you might not get your request granted.
We are living in the end times.
You can't force people to pretend what you want to pretend.
Illogical solipisism. You can't be everyone but different than everyone at the same time, no matter how much your Swedish parlor cost.
Whitman is overrated in the same way as Herman Hesse. By the time you learn to masturbate, you have outgrown their gropiness.
Tina!
You are to harsh. Hesse taught me that I should study harder. Don’t admire the man, admire the message.
All the little birdies on district courts, hopin and a bobin and singing their songs.
Transsocial (e.g. cross-dresser) or transgender (e.g. homosexual with a heterosexual fetish)? Does he produce large gametes (i.e. eggs) in the binary model of human evolution?
'I didn’t know Whitman had been a federal judge. Another example of a federal judge becoming a law unto himself.'
This is like all the idiot lefties screaming, "But there's a poem on the Statue of Liberty that says we shouldn't be mean to people."
celebrates herself and sings herself
What immediately sprang to mind was, "On the good ship Lollipop..."
Asking students to lie is a fireable offense.
If she asked to be called "Ms Wood" and her students abided by this wish, why and when did we get the problem of "Teacher Wood?" Whatever else comes to bear on her need to share her preferred pronouns goes beyond my ken. Regardless of the wispy logic of the judge, her ego is at play here. Teachers should not manipulate students. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
The sensible thing IMO is one can always ask, but to compel speech is going too far. It appears the law went so far as to proscribe the request, which is discriminatory, and if applied to my generation would have disallowed a female teacher from asking us to call her Ms. Beeson instead of Miss. Now I’ll see what the rest of you had to say.
Dang it. None of you lawyers analyzed the actual statute. At least there’s the pleasant surprise of finding gadfly and I on the same free speech side, for both parties.
Mark said...
“Refusing to coddle your delusions is not disrespect. Disrespect is trying to punish me for acknowledging reality.”
"Sounds like you would also approve of the teacher correctly calling the students who deserve it 'dumbass'. Don't want to coddle their delusions."
You have a way of missing the point, dumbass.
Ms Howard says what?
$20 says students call the teacher Ms. Gotwood. And c'mon Katie, a female match teacher? Who you kidding.
"Follow the Science" No where to be found.
Nancy;
I can't tell if the teacher is MtF or FtM.
I think it was a commenter here, that simplified this for me.
In the story, replace 'trans' with the word 'fake'. So a trans man becomes fake man, and it becomes crystal clear.
If my neighbor thinks he is Napoleon, I'm certainly not going to bother him. I'm not going to call him "Your Highness" either. And I'm certainly not going to follow hm to Moscow.
Enjoy your delusions. But neither I nor anyone else has any moral or legal obligation to participate in them.
In high school in the 1970s I had an English teacher get really mad at me because I had addressed her as "Mrs. Smith" in some written communication with her. She was divorced and wanted to be known as "Ms. Smith." Well, I was raised a traditional Roman Catholic and in my naivety of youth had never before interacted with a divorced adult, believe it or not. She never made clear her marital status nor her desired form of address, although she did mention her child and husband in passing during class. I guess really her ex-husband, although she had referred to him as her husband when telling anecdotes. And that was the situation.
So she presented me a three page handwritten letter excoriating me for my "Mrs." insult to her and told me to come talk to her about my egregious fault that afternoon. Not knowing what to do about it all, I approached one of the school guidance counselors, let him read this screed, and asked what I should do. He leaned back in his chair and said, with all the gravity of his 20+ years dealing with teens and teachers, and said, "Well, she is an English teacher, so I'm not surprised she wrote so much. Let her have her yell at you. Just call her "Mizz Smith" from now on and try to ignore her craziness. In a year you probably won't remember her name at all." Sound advice, and I've kept it in mind when dealing with similar social issues since then.
After giving it a lot of thought over several years, I've come to the conclusion that your pronouns are about how I see you, not about how you see yourself. That's the whole point of preferred pronouns. If I actually saw you the way you want to be seen, they wouldn't be preferred pronouns, they'd just be pronouns.
When you tell me your pronouns, you're either telling me to pretend to see you differently than I do, or you're trying to normalize the entitlement to that pretense on demand.
I have to say that requiring the students to say "Teacher Wood," or whoever, is the ideal solution. It offends no one's gender claims, and requires no student to acquiesce in a gender "profile" that s/he does not recognize. Everything is on a studiously gender-neutral basis.
Which is why trans activists, of course, despise it.
You can have whatever delusions you want, but you DO NOT get to FORCE me to share your delusion. Judges like that are why there is a joke that starts off "What do you call 1000 lawyers on the bottom of the sea?"
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