Aaron Bushnell was 25.
The "religious compound" was a "charismatic sect" called the Community of Jesus, located on Cape Cod.
February 27, 2024
"He sent the friend a copy of his will on Sunday. In it, he gave his cat to his neighbor and a fridge full of root beers to the friend."
"Twelve minutes later, Bushnell, who was a senior airman in the U.S. Air Force, doused himself with a liquid and set himself on fire. He had posted a video online saying he did not want to be 'complicit in genocide.' He shouted 'Free Palestine' as he burned. Secret Service officers extinguished the blaze. Bushnell died seven hours later at a hospital."
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Am guessing that he expected someone to put the fire out quicker than they did.
Insanity. All part of the shit show and lies that surround the Hamas/Palestinian/Iranian Ayatollahs propaganda campaign.
Now - if only Joe Biden would light himself on fire. Then we'd be getting somewhere.
I don't generally care if some weirdo decides to delete himself. The only reason anyone cares about this story is because it feeds the Israel/genocide narrative.
Oh yeah. Brings back a lot of memories of dealing with the problem children you get when the recruiters are ordered to take anything that breathes and can walk through the door of the recruiting station.
I don't generally care if some weirdo decides to delete himself.
WAPO: (wrings hands)
A guy who was computer support in the air force flambees himself hohum really
He maybe was mentally ill. He may have been narcissistic. He DID fully commit.
I wish the "zero population growth" and the "greens" had half of his commitment. You want to save Gia, help reduce the strain on the planet? Do what this guy did BUT not by lighting yourself on fire, carbon/CO2 and all...
A very Buddhist act for such a devoutly Christian man. The worst is that he ruined the idea of Root Beer for his friends. I'm sure the news media appreciates his sacrifice for a viral story.
Interesting Wikipedia article on the Community of Jesus church.
John Henry
It is strange and shocking that immolation - whether political or not - is rising in popularity as a method of suicide.
So he died for a lie? What Israel's doing isn't "genocide." And how was this guy "complicit" in it?
And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a road flare in teh wind
Never knowing who to turn to
When the pain set in
Free the hostages!
I can’t read the article. Was he or was he being asked to be complicit in genocide? And good grief why by fire? To make a scene?
This is news?
The dozens of Vets committing suicide everyday are hidden from public view.
As mentioned up thread, this is only news because it advances the 'proper' narrative.
While I completely disagree with his position on Israel and Palestine, I readily admit he was committed to his beliefs. They say that people who have jumped off high objects to commit suicide but survived realized as soon as they let go that they had made a mistake. Given that burning to death is a horrible way to die, did he experience regret? We'll never know.
Community of Jesus has been described as a cult. Cult or not, it's a weird authoritarian community headed by elders with access to members' private lives. I've been very close friends with two suicides. Both were not addicts, had money, had an obsessive desire for "purer living" -- one was obsessed with Kierkegaard, which just makes his dumbshit philosophy more repulsive to me.
Gaza, Kierkegaard, whatever. I think suicide is hardwired into some people. Flacko the owl just accidentally flew into some glass. My friend hung himself inside the front door so his wife would see him with their newborn baby. Named Hope.
Fuck him. I knew him for decades but wouldn't go to the funeral. Selfish. If you want to kill yourself, do it in a way that they can harvest your organs, at least, you lazy bastards.
Yeah, well. What a shame.
Anyway.
Holy shit. I know that place, The Community of Jesus, very well. My wife and I took a walk on the grounds just a couple years ago, and we go to Rock Harbor, in Orleans, where it is located, frequently. On clear days, I can see the tower/steeple from my beach in Brewster. I never really knew what the place was all about. I think I thought of it as kind of a meditation-based Religious community.
He was what we would call a "putz".
So far he's the top Darwin Award winner of 2024.
I don't think it's accidental that he joined the military, for in centuries past violent and unstable people used the military as a positive career tool. They may go out in a blaze of glory like this guy, but they also received posthumous medals and were buried with honor as heroes who died for their country.
Today we have self-radicalization, self-immolation and school shooters. I know that I want to die in Ukraine to enlarge Joe Biden's bank account. How about you?
When I was in my early twenties, I became a Tolstoyan -- a follower of the pacifist teachings of Leo Tolstoy. I mailed a letter to my Selective Service office, declaring that I was a conscientious objector and enclosing my draft card.
The Selective Service refused to classify me as a conscientious objector, and I appealed. As that legal dispute proceeded, however, I eventually changed my own mind about pacifism. I mailed a new letter and retrieved my draft card from that office. These events lasted about a year.
Then another year passed, and I eventually decided to join the US Air Force. I figured that might give me an opportunity to work as a Russian-language linguist.
Although I had acquired a Masters Degree in Slavic languages, there was practically no opportunity to enlist as an officer, so I enlisted as an airman basic (the lowest rank).
After a couple more years, I was able to become an officer, and eventually I rose to the rank of major. I served in the USAF a total of 14 years. After the Soviet Union fell apart and so the USA decided to reduce its military ranks, I figured that I had no hope of getting another promotion. In that unique situation, I was able to get a large severance pay for leaving the USAF voluntarily.
Then another retired USAF officer and I worked together as professional translators for several years. We translated documents mostly for investigations and prosecutions of people who had committed war crimes during World War Two. Within just a few years, almost all of those elderly culprits were dying of old age, and so that employment of mine eventually ended.
Anyway, when I read this blog article about this young man who committed suicide recently because of his own pacifist turmoil, I felt much sympathy for him. If he had not acted so rashly, he might have resolved that turmoil and lived a long, happy life.
Anyway, when I read this blog article about this young man who committed suicide recently because of his own pacifist turmoil, I felt much sympathy for him. If he had not acted so rashly, he might have resolved that turmoil and lived a long, happy life.
Great comment, Mike Sylvester.
Wow. Some dark comments here today, surprising. As for the dead, not an easy life, to start out as a child in a religious cult and end it as an anarchist in the military. He sounds like a very confused young man, directionless, odd choices and motivations. Makes one wonder about the role of society in shaping people, when families fail.
And this guy is a hero to the Left.
The "religious compound" was a "charismatic sect" called the Community of Jesus, located on Cape Cod.
Anybody want to take bets on how long it will be before they get declared "Christian Nationalists" and the whole thing goes down the Memory Hole?
After I had rejected pacifism and had retrieved my draft card, I feared that this episode of my personal history might prevent my new ambition for a military career. I figured that if I never mentioned that episode, then the USAF might never discover it.
By coincidence, my uncle was the Chief of USAF Chaplains, and so I confided to him about my dilemma. He advised me to simply tell the truth -- that I had declared my pacifism and returned my draft card but had changed my mind sincerely. He predicted that the USAF would treat the matter in a reasonable manner and that I should not worry about it.
I followed my uncle's advice, and he was right. I went on to serve 14 years in the USAF very happily.
Burning the mentally ill alive is a new low for the left
Prediction: there will be a lot more critical scrutiny of the "Christian" story angle than the "anarchist" angle.
Via Reddit: instead of “free Palestine”, I thought his last words would be something along the lines of “Ow Fuck This Burns” 🥵
Too soon?
I'm so sorry for him.
This kid must have had mental or emotional trouble. But he wasn't wrong to be horrified by what is happening in Gaza. At the very least America shouldn't be funding it nor supplying weapons, IMHO.
I don't think, over time, it's going to make Israel or US citizens any safer. Probably just the opposite.
I've always been very pro-Israel, but I think they're making a huge mistake and are destroying their biggest asset, being seen as the ones on the moral high ground.
Before you start calling me an anti-semite, consider this, If you think killing civilians is justified because of what you imagine is in their minds and hearts, why shouldn't the left in America kill you and me because they imagine we're white supremacists or "Christian Nationalists" or whatever and a threat to their democracy?
He wasn't a Buddhist monk in a Buddhist country demonstrating a purity of purpose in his protest, he was a deluded cultist overset by his own narcissism.
Humility can be a life saver.
I subscribe to Jim Treacher’s Substack, and yesterday’s cynical article by him resonated strongly with me.
Here are the first three paragraphs verbatim:
“You might think you’re an antisemite in good standing. You might belong to a neo-Nazi group, or a “pro-Palestine” group, or some other group that’s obsessed with the eradication of the Jews. You might march around and scream and yell and block traffic. You might even attack people for being Jews or sympathizing with Jews.
But have you ever set yourself on fire? I mean literally. Have you ever doused yourself in an accelerant, lit a match, and set yourself ablaze because you just hate Jews that much?
A brave martyr named Aaron Bushnell just did.”
Treacher goes on to write:
“In a world where ‘12-hour hunger strike’ isn’t considered an oxymoron, where hashtag activism is as far as most of these miserable bigots go, at least Bushnell had the courage of his convictions.
He was willing to die for what he believed in: hating Jews.
If you don’t want to live in a world where the Jews have the right to defend their own lives from insane terrorists, you don’t have to.“
Let me emphasize that: He was willing to die for what he believed in: hating Jews.
Yes, I’m a cynical old man. I lived in or around Washington, DC, from 1969 until 2016, and one cannot fo that without becoming very, very cynical about government, and the lefties who flock to work there.
Such appallingly poor fuel fuel economy. Condemnation from the Greenie-Weenies in ...3 ... 2 ... Oh never mind.
Community of Jesus?? There is no recorded example of any Jesus's disciples committing suicide, excepting Judas of course.
Did anyone measure the carbon output?
The issue I see here is not pacifism or protest per se, but pacifism that seems purely emotional, with very little thought. The Israel consulate is supposed to be moved by this man's burning to death, and not by the burnings to death Hamas committed on Oct. 7? A pacifist should support a military government that robs its people to build miles and miles of tunnels in order to make war?
Feelings now are very much honored. WE all need to hold tight to our rationality.
"The only reason anyone cares about this story is because it feeds the Israel/genocide narrative."
Well, a person setting himself on fire is always news.
A person setting himself on fire in front of an embassy is headline news.
A person setting himself on fire in front of an embassy, and who is an active duty member of the US military is worldwide headline news.
A person setting himself on fire in front of an embassy, and who is an active duty member of the US military, and who grew up in a cloistered religious community--a cult?--is definitely worldwide headline news.
That this person with this background committed this act to protest Israel genocide of the inhabitants of Gaza is just one more notable aspect of his act that would make people be interested in the story. It's not the "only reason people care about the story" by any means, or even a necessary element to make it news. This would be worldwide headline news even if he did it for no (or any) reason at all.
From X:
Serious question @elonmusk:
This tweet from @CornelWest literally celebrates/encourages suicide and self harm.
How is it not violative of twitter’s terms of use?
"Cornel West
@CornelWest
Let us never forget the extraordinary courage and commitment of brother Aaron Bushnell who died for truth and justice! I pray for his precious loved ones! Let us rededicate ourselves to genuine solidarity with Palestinians undergoing genocidal attacks in real time! "
"He was willing to die for what he believed in: hating Jews."
What evidence do you have he hated Jews? It seems to me he hated Man's inhumanity to Man.
I'm sympathetic to him. In the fullness of time, he probably would have grown out of it. I don't think anti-Semitism was the motivating factor. It was a grandiose act, but it certainly wasn't the act of a dilettante like those students on a twelve hour fast......Israel is a bourgeois western democracy. Such states piss leftists off far more than Isis, Hamas, Venezuela, et al....Such a tactic should be taken up by Hamas. I'm more sympathetic to activists who self immolate than to activists who rape, murder and kidnap in pursuit of their goals.
Someone posted, on X, "Rest in power," with reference to the deceased...and were promptly attacked as racist because the deceased is white and that phrase is reserved for saints like George Floyd.
Who again are the racists? I forget.
"And this guy is a hero to the Left."
What evidence do you have he is a hero to "the Left," (that amorphous hivemind Borg which is apparently everywhere but nowhere explicitly identified)?
"senior airman"
So, how many other confused senior airmen do we have in the USAF? Will they kill bad guys when the time comes? Or will they anarchistically prefer to kill themselves first?
And if you're the CCP leaders, how would you put Jew-hatred to work?
The man was a secular saint, and a fighter against injustice. He wanted to stop israel from murdering the palestinians. Sad that he lost his life.
Compare him to a souless creep like Joe Biden, Mitt Romney, or Chuck schumer who probably chortle over the deaths of 25,000 innocent people while they eat their lunch.
Bob Boyd: Before you start calling me an anti-semite, consider this, If you think killing civilians is justified because of what you imagine is in their minds and hearts, why shouldn't the left in America kill you and me because they imagine we're white supremacists or "Christian Nationalists" or whatever and a threat to their democracy?
So no war is ever justified because civilians invariably are killed? What about a war in which the attackers give ahead of time detailed warnings about where they will be attacking? Supply the enemy with food, medical supplies and fuel? Have a ration of civilian-to-combatant deaths far lower than most wars on record? And fights an enemy that has designed its military to be integrated into and protected by civilian hospitals, places of worship, homes?
You may have nice feelings, but you owe yourself a little careful thought.
The man was a secular saint, and a fighter against injustice. He wanted to stop israel from murdering the palestinians. Sad that he lost his life.
Compare him to a souless creep like Joe Biden, Mitt Romney, or Chuck schumer who probably chortle over the deaths of 25,000 innocent people while they eat their lunch.
Personally, if people upset me, I'm 1000x more likely to commit homicide than suicide. But that's me.
Aggie said...
"Wow. Some dark comments here today, surprising."
Why? We're all leaving sooner or later. Some of sooner than others. He chose his path. Some people don't get to that.
So. Best of luck in the afterlife. See ya in a bit.
"I'm so sorry for him."
Too late.
Lem - LOL. thank you.
Throughout the history of the Church, there have been Christians who have striven to revive or recreate the experience of Christian communities of the 1st century, i.e. those founded personally by the Apostles, on the supposition that the direct and personal influence of a leader who was himself directly and personally influenced by Jesus of Nazareth would be closer to the ideal community worth of the Messiah’s approval. Of course, that’s not quite what survived the violence and politics of the late 1st century. Instead, we have an institution chiefly built by 4th century of a tradition popularly attributed to Paul of Tarsus, a figure who by tradition was granted apostolic authority by the Risen Christ, a claim unlikely to have been accepted by uncritically by the original eleven (or twelve, depending on your doctrine regarding Judas) in Italy at a time when Rome was at war with the Jewish state in revolt against the Empire that had brought a modicum of peace and prosperity to a region that had been the scene of more or less constant conflict and violence since the death of Alexander. According to the canonical texts, these earliest Roman Christians were followers of Paul and Peter, most of them former pagans. According to modern scholarship, they were more likely Jewish refugees from the civil violence in Judea and the Herodian tetrarchy that preceded the outbreak of open revolt in 70 AD, which was the likely origin of the Christian-Jewish enmity that ultimately produced Hitler.
Unfortunately, there have been a few small but vocal and active groups on the extreme right of American Christianity that have embraced that hostility as part of their doctrine, specifically the so-called Christian identity movement. These heretics believe themselves to be the literal descendants of the ancient Hebrew tribes named in the Book of Exodus, and that Jews are impostors with no ancestral claim to any biblical authority or inheritance. This movement, largely white though there have been many violently antisemitic “Black Hebrew” cults, reached their zenith in the 1990s and swiftly declined in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing, a terrorist act committed by avowed Christian Identity adherents. A few scattered groups survived that horrendous downfall, an it is evident that Aaron Bushnell grew up within one of them, weened on implantable hatred of Israel and ZOG, the Zionist Occupation Government. These people are heretics by any reading of the theology of Church since the Council of Nicaea up to and after the Reformation. Luther and all his followers held the Church enjoyed salvation “by Faith alone”. No inkling of inheritance by identity can be found in Luther’s writings or in his translation of the Bible. Nor can it be found in the doctrines of the later Reformers, including those who rejected Luther’s opinions on the Sacraments or his ecumenicalism. And yet, WaPo describes Bushnell’s upbringing as “charismatic”, a term the editors haven’t the faintest clue about. Pernicious but unsurprising given the appalling ignorance of modern J-school grads.
Anarchism is a dangerous religious sect.
bob boyd first sets out a false straw man, that Israel is killing palestinian civilians because of what the civilians think. The truth is that they are being killed because Hamas insists on placing them in harm's way. To his question as to why the left should not kill those on the right for what we think, the answer is that we have not attacked them while they listened to music, did not kill their babies or kidnap their families. Nor have we cheered on members of our side (if they had done such things) as palestinian civilians did.
What evidence do you have he hated Jews? It seems to me he hated Man's inhumanity to Man.
@Cookie, I was quoting Jim Treacher. Go subscribe to his Substack and ask him. You may hate “Man’s inhumanity to Man” but I hate terrorist rape of young defenseless women. Nothing that happens to Palestinians is undeserved. The Palestinian women supported the Hamas rapists. They’re every bit as guilty as the terrorists who committed the rapes and murders.
I will be kind; he was a nut.
Nobody will remember what he did and it will affect NOTHING.
Ironically, this is the result for all of us...
RCOCEAN II said...
The man was a secular saint, and a fighter against injustice. He wanted to stop israel from murdering the palestinians. Sad that he lost his life.
2/27/24, 9:54 AM
Sure, poor, poor Palestinians. They didn't do nothin! Just standing around, minding their own business and out of the clear blue sky a bunch of Jews just start steam rolling right through their country! Damn them! Oh wait, no that is not quite what happened is it. The poor poor Palestinians paraglided into a music festival, murdered, raped, burned alive, raped, butchered, raped some more, kidnapped a bunch of civilians (men, women, children, and babies), and raped some women to death. Oh and then they dragged some of the dead bodies of those they killed through town to show them off.
They put babies in STOVES! You want to fight for justice? How about telling the Palestinians that could end all of this by nightfall to (a) release all of their hostages, (b) turn over the murderers, (c) recognize Israel's right to exist, and (d) STOP lobbing rockets at them.
Too black and white for you? You need a more nuanced gray? The Palestinians are the only ones pursuing injustice and genocide. They are the ones screaming "from the river to the sea". They are the ones that wasted ALL of the millions and millions of dollars of aid money on tunnels and weapons instead of infrastructure and development. All this death and destruction is because the Palestinians love them more dead jews more then they love their children. Palestinians have more freedom in Israel than they have in Palestinian. Every time Israel extends a hand in peace, the Palestinians try to cut it off, every time. Hamas is the cause of this and the Palestinians support Hamas. Mr. Tikki Torch was no saint. He was just another poor sap that swallowed the lies he was fed until he was driven to do this. Shame on you for trying to justify/excuse his actions.
Decide no one else and nothing else is really worth living for-->Keep making such decisions-->Enshrine injustice as a core principle-->Witness injustice in the World-->Follow the impulses where they lead-->Decide to die a painful and public, mostly dishonorable and purposeless death
Attract the disgust and horror of social media passers-by. Hope for the martyrdom a few prominent fellow-travelers on the battlefield of (C)auses and victims/victimizers against injustice.
Something I've observed about comments that start with, "So..."
It's like the commenter starts out by saying, "If I understand you correctly...", but they have no intention of understanding you correctly. This is immediately made clear when they follow "So" by putting words in your mouth. The words they put in have you taking some extreme and ridiculous position that no sensible person would take. Then they go on to tell you why what you didn't say is ridiculous in a tone that is usually reserved for those who have said something extreme and ridiculous. Then they finish with condescending advice on how you could do better than to make extreme and ridiculous statements you didn't make.
The whole process is basically an exercise in self-gratification.
I don't know. I have had days I felt like killing myself, or at least, like I'd be better off dead. I never felt like setting myself on fire. The human capacity for misery is an appalling thing. I can see how, if you were a Christian, or just a deeply empathetic person, you might find the weight of all that misery unbearable.
Blogger Gusty Winds said...
Did anyone measure the carbon output?
"Carbon" output? Or "carbon dioxide" output?
C'mon, Gusty. You are better than that. If you mean CO2, say CO2. Don't propagandize.
Carbon stayed the same. Just recombined/decombined in different ways
CO2 output stayed the same. It just happened more quickly by combustion than slowly by decay.
But setting yourself on fire is a very risky way to go. Unless you do a really thorough job, there is an excellent chance that you will wake up a month later from a drug-induced coma and spend the next 40-odd years in unspeakable pain, thanks to medical progress. I'm not gonna say this guy was lucky, but at least he doesn't have that to look forward to.
As a USAF veteran, his sacrifice for what he believed in means more to me than all of the Israeli lives that Hamas has allegedly murdered.
I am a hard right conservative on most things, not a lefty as most of Bibi's fanboys are, and this man is a hero to me.
Rest In Peace, sir.
Robert Cook: It seems to me he hated Man's inhumanity to Man.
Lighting yourself on fire is a weird way of trying to express that point. Dying in incredible pain at your own hand seems pretty inhuman to me.
There are some commenters here obviously bucking for the Iron Cross, particularly SS-Strumbanfuhrer RCOCEAN II**. Robert Cook, however, seeks the Order of Lenin from the bloodstained paw of Lavrentiy Beria. Well done, you're all on your merry way to those complimentary goals: Socialism Forever! and No Jews is Good Jews.
** Whether a newly caplocked rcocean, or a sock puppet isn't clear. There's something amiss with indecipherable interweb noms de plume. They are evidently significant to their owners, but barely comprehensible to everyone else, and doubly so when they are changed, leaving the reader to speculate about the motivation. The ordinal suffix suggests an apotheosis, a transformation of the old and staid rcocean into a "new and improved product", like New Coke or Apple II, only sometimes new and only rarely improved. Frankly, I fear the new and improved RCOCEAN II will pan out like the new and improved Travis Bickle.
No hes hamas antifa cover band
https://twitter.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1762167026909397358
Robert Cook writes, "It seems to me he hated Man's inhumanity to Man."
Congratulations. You have achieved intellectual parity with Whoopie Goldberg.
A fine story, Sylwester.
He had posted a video online saying he did not want to be 'complicit in genocide.' He shouted 'Free Palestine'
You can't support "Free Palestine" while being opposed to genocide, since what the Palestinians demand is the genocide of the Jews.
So good riddance to bad rubbish
"I've always been very pro-Israel, but I think they're making a huge mistake and are destroying their biggest asset, being seen as the ones on the moral high ground.
"Before you start calling me an anti-semite...."
Bob, the only people who would call you an anti-semite for describing Israel's wanton bloodshed as "a huge mistake, etc." are dishonest actors or fanatic lunatics. Don't be concerned with them or their opinion of your well-grounded concerns.
“Something I've observed about comments that start with, "So..."”
So… what I hear you saying, Bob Boyd, is that you’re feeling butthurt.
We’ll, suck it up, buttercup.
😁
Robert Cook said...
"He was willing to die for what he believed in: hating Jews."
What evidence do you have he hated Jews? It seems to me he hated Man's inhumanity to Man.
If he hated Man's inhumanity to Man, then the Hamas oct 7 rapes, tortures, and murders of Jews would have had him in Israel's side.
The fact that he was still on the "Free Palestine" side shows he's entirely about the Jew hatred
So, what your saying is...
Always dishonest. Happens in real life too. Had a subordinate who'd do this anytime I told her to do something she disagreed with. "So, what's you're saying is..[insert what I didn't say]...and I should do it my way".
And yes, I am the real, new improved Rcocean. Remember there are seven seas, but only one Rcocean.
So, Bob Boyd has finally recognized a straw man argument and he's not happy.
"bob boyd first sets out a false straw man, that Israel is killing palestinian civilians because of what the civilians think. The truth is that they are being killed because Hamas insists on placing them in harm's way."
The truth is they're being killed because they're Palestinians and they are in harm's way because Israel has determined to raze the places where they live, (which Israel sees as being the location for new settlements as soon as the undesirables are cleaned out).
I watched the immolation video @ Ryan McBeth's Substack (subscribed)
Ryan Warns...
The February 24th self-immolation of Air Force Airman Aaron Bushnell outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington DC creates the potential for copycat acts, particularly among youth influenced by social media.
This act and the praise behind it creates a normalization of extreme acts on social media and the potential for mentally unstable individuals to be manipulated into acts of terrorism.
To me, Aaron appeared mental. It changed nothing.
Quaestor writes, "Instead, we have an institution chiefly built by 4th century of a tradition popularly attributed to Paul of Tarsus..."
Obviously defective. In my own defense, I was using my iPad, a platform ill-suited to lengthy declamations, at least in my incapable hands. In the process of editing, I lost a word or two. Here is the opening clause as I composed it:
Instead, we have an institution chiefly built by 4th-century adherents of a tradition popularly attributed to Paul of Tarsus...
Here's the "Rest in power" thread from X:
Sam Ashworth-Hayes
@SAshworthHayes
"As far as metaphors for the modern left go, burning yourself alive over the fate of a country thousands of miles away only to have fellow leftists spend their time arguing that as a white male you were an oppressor unworthy of the term 'rest in power' is pretty perfect. No notes."
Refers to the tweet in the post, a screen shot from 'Carolina guh in the bug apple.'
Robert Cook said...
["And this guy is a hero to the Left."]
"What evidence do you have he is a hero to "the Left," (that amorphous hivemind Borg which is apparently everywhere but nowhere explicitly identified)?"
There you go again, dissembling, acting as if there's no such thing as the Left.
OK, here's some:
WarMonitor
"Rest in peace Aaron Bushnell, your actions will not go in vain." (edited by the sender from 'Rest in power' a day or so before)
Read Let This Radicalize You@JoshuaPHilll
Joshua Hill's profile:
'Earthseed_Abolition_
Anti-Capitalism_ (he/him) Join my newsletter at the link in the bio
lenapehoking
newmeans.substack.com
Joined January 2019'
"I can't believing I'm saying this, but Aaron Bushnell's last words were just read live on CNN."
I'm not going to add anything more. Plenty of tweets out there from people who are solidly left wing, with a smaller amount of posts from folks of other stripes.
I guess I’ve seen far too many clips of Palestinian kids’ TV shows where children, as in under the age of 10, all talk about how they can’t WAIT to murder Jews, to be a suicide bomber, to be some sort of martyr, and the adult interviews praise them. That is some deep and troubling brainwashing, and I can’t say I lose much sleep over Israel defending themselves from a society that opening and proudly wishes them death (and frequently makes that wish a reality).
So setting oneself on fire for people who actively teach their young children to grow up to be murderers…can’t say I relate.
"And yes, I am the real, new improved Rcocean."
I trust your mohawk is more linear than the wayward do Scorsese insisted De Niro perform on himself.
bob boyd first sets out a false straw man, that Israel is killing palestinian civilians because of what the civilians think.
Yinzer first sets out a false straw man. I didn't say Israel was killing civilians because of what the civilians think.
I said some commenters think killing civilians is justified because of what the commenters believe those civilians think.
Then he goes on to prove my point.
LOL
I have taken your advice, Meade, and lowered my butt into an imaginary horse trough, heard an imaginary hiss and was enveloped in an imaginary cloud of steam. Ahhhhh...
My butt didn't even hurt and it still feels better. Many thanks!
Robert Cook writes, "...which Israel sees as being the location for new settlements as soon as the undesirables are cleaned out."
Which is only different in degree than the Palestinians' intent for Israel. Maybe Israel desires Gaza, that's Cook's unsupported assertion. However, let us grant that stipulation. How does Robert Cook morally sort these diametric aims? Why is the Palestinian goal of the extermination of Israel and the appropriation of her territory for the exclusive ownership of Muslims morally preferable to the Israeli goal of expelling HAMAS from Gaza followed by annexation? Please do not flaunt stupidity and ignorance by repeating common "decolonization" tropes. Jews have had a historic presence in that region of the Levant since the late Bronze Age, so if any group can be called a "colonizer" it is the Palestinians, a so-called nationality unheard of before 1948.
The comments are on fire today.
I respect the man for what he did, and his committment to justice for the people of Gaza. We Americans are as responsible as Israel for the deaths of 25,000 innocent people and their displacement and destruction of their homes, churches, Mosques, and Hosptials.
We give israel the weapons to commit genocide. And moral support. Or should I say, immoral support. We also provide them with the air cover and protection from the arab states who wouldd love to intervene and stop Israel from killing innocent arabs.
I think this is the first case of average American, a serviceman, a patriot, killing himself to protest injustice and genocide. Its tragic for him, and for the USA. Incredible, that we've sunk so low. From fighting the evil empire under Reagan to being the Evil empire under Biden.
What are secret service agents doing at the Israeli embassy in DC? It's nowhere near the White House.
Robert Cook said...
The truth is they're being killed because they're Palestinians and they are in harm's way because Israel has determined to raze the places where they live, (which Israel sees as being the location for new settlements as soon as the undesirables are cleaned out).
2/27/24, 11:53 AM
Not sure if you could be any more dishonest (or delusional?). Other than attempting to protect themselves from near constant threat, not from people that want to conquer them but from peoples that want to eradicate them, what have the Israelis' done? Most of the Muslims and all of the Palatines want actual Jewish genocide. They want to one-up Hitler. Hamas hides behind women and children, under homes and hospitals, schools and mosques. Make bombs in day-care centers.
Between Israel and the Palestinians, Israel clearly has the bigger stick. Don't you think if they actually wanted genocide, they couldn't just do it? They have the man-power and the technology. They could exterminate every man, woman, and child in Gaza. They have not. They are not. They actually gave land to a people that want them dead in the hope of getting peace. Instead they get daily rocket attacks. They don't chant "from the river to the sea" in the streets daily. They don't target to murder, rape, and kill men, women, and children specifically, unlike Hamas, the elected government of Gaza. So would you please get your head out of your *ss and stop with the hate and lies?
Hamas could end all the destruction and death tonight if they wanted to. Simply (a) release all the hostages, (b) turn over all the Hamas terrorists, and (c) stop the attacks against Israel and recognize that they have a right to exist.
That is all they have ever had to do but apparently [like some on this board] they hate jews more than they love their children.
@ Todd at 10:40 AM
+1000
I think he left his friend the root beer in the fridge not the root beer & the fridge
Robert Cook: The truth is they're being killed because they're Palestinians and they are in harm's way because Israel has determined to raze the places where they live, (which Israel sees as being the location for new settlements as soon as the undesirables are cleaned out).
So why did the government of Israel remove all Jewish settlements, and all Jews, from Gaza when it gave Gaza independent government in 2007?
And about the number of "innocent" Palestinians killed: About 13,000 were Hamas fighters. Of course that figure is from the government of Israel, rather than from Hamas, so we have to question it, right? Accept the Hamas figure instead, they have always been so truthful?
"Why is the Palestinian goal of the extermination of Israel and the appropriation of her territory for the exclusive ownership of Muslims morally preferable to the Israeli goal of expelling HAMAS from Gaza followed by annexation?"
IF the Palestinians's goal was the extermination of Israel that would be no more morally preferable or supportable than Israel's goal to erase the Palestinians, (e.g., Hamas' murderous October 07 attack on innocent Israelis was a morally unsupportable crime). However, I don't think most Palestinians have realistic intentions or expectations to "exterminate Israel" or its people; even though many of them want a "one state" solution, they also certainly know this is impossible and will never happen. A more realistic settlement could be reached if Israel committed to such in good faith and intent, which has not been the case heretofore. Israel has long been set upon expanding its settlements and it has long oppressed the Palestinians in GAZA, often violently. While the October 07 attacks by Hamas were deplorable and criminal, they did not arise in a vacuum. Israel is taking advantage of Hamas' initial crime* to press their own goal to be rid of the Palestinians.
*(Given that Netanyahu favored Hamas over the PLO, and he has been funding Hamas for years, to "buy" their loyalty, more or less, while not alleviating Israel's oppression of the Palestinians, one must wonder if he expected or desired that eventually Hamas would commit a violent act such that Israel could claim justified cause to wield total war on Gaza and the Palestinian population.)
Here's the story...
https://www.frontpagemag.com/the-airman-who-set-himself-on-fire-for-hamas-was-antifa-ex-cult-member/
Should NEVER have been allowed in the Air Force.
Robert Cook said...
The truth is they're being killed because they're Palestinians and they are in harm's way because Israel has determined to raze the places where they live, (which Israel sees as being the location for new settlements as soon as the undesirables are cleaned out).
What is it like to live without a conscience?
1) Current death toll. Killed by Israel in Gaza since october 7th
At least 29,878 people, including more than:
12,300 children
8,400 women
2) Arabs killed in West Bank By Israel since October 7th:
At least 407 people, including more than:
108 children
3) How many people know that Israel is bulldozing Arab homes and killing Arab kids and women on the West Bank? They are. With our help.
Now if only all the pro-Hamas dipwads blocking traffic would follow his example ...
"What is it like to live without a conscience?"
Personally, I don't know, you would have to observe or ask someone who lacks one. Handily, our former and possibly future POTUS Don Don Trump is ready to hand.
What evidence do you have he is a hero to "the Left
I dunno. Maybe the hundreds of Twitter posts wishing for him to Rest in Power?
“Should NEVER have been allowed in the Air Force.“
Just reflects how desperate recruiters are.
Blogger RCOCEAN II said...
1) Current death toll. Killed by Israel in Gaza since october 7th
At least 29,878 people, including more than:
12,300 children
8,400 women
2) Arabs killed in West Bank By Israel since October 7th:
At least 407 people, including more than:
108 children
3) How many people know that Israel is bulldozing Arab homes and killing Arab kids and women on the West Bank? They are. With our help.
2/27/24, 3:27 PM
...
ROcean you mean "Hamas, who lied about everything so far, says that 29K people have died." Why do you believe that? Have they told the truth about anything? Don't forget the first thing that happened in the war was that Israel fired a rocket on a hospital, destroying it, and killing 5,000 people. Except that it didn't hit a hospital. It hit the parking lot. And the hospital suffered no significant damage. And 5,000 people didn't die. Something like 5 did. Oh, and Israel didn't fire it. The "Palestinians" did, but as happens often, it didn't go off correctly and it turned into friendly fire.
Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
Why in G-d's name would any rational person accept what Hamas says? EVERYTHING they've said so far turned out not to be true.
Oh and they were all children and women too right?
One question I've NEVER seen answered... ALL of this would end IMMEDIATELY if Hamas gave up the hostages. So the question is not why is Israel continuing to work to free the hostages. The question is - why does Hamas hate their brethren so much that they refuse to release the hostages, knowing that action will end hostilities immediately?
@RCOCEAN II: Let's assume for the sake of argument that Hamas's figure of 29,878 dead in Gaza is accurate. Hamas refuses to distinguish between civilians and combatants so we must look to other sources to figure out how many of those 29,878 were combatants. Hamas affiliates in Qatar say 6,000. The IDF says 12,000 Hamas combatants have been killed. Let's split the difference and say that 9,000 Hamas combatants have been killed out of the total of 29,878 Gazan deaths. That means 20,878 civilians have been killed. What do these numbers tell us? Well, the average ratio of civilian-to-combatant deaths in urban warfare is 9/1. That's because civilians are easy to kill and armed combatants are not. But here in the Gaza war, the ratio is 20,878/9,000=2.3/1, which is remarkably low. It's far lower than the US inflicted in Somalia and Iraq. It's far lower than in the civil wars in the Balkans. Why is the ratio of civilian-to-combatant deaths so low in the Gaza war? It's because the IDF has been taking extraordinary care to limit civilian casualties, not for any other reason.
If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to help you out.
As for Bushnell, my only comment is that I'm glad the US taxpayer will be spared the expense of a court-martial.
@ Cook re: 11:37 AM
Thanks, man.
The fact is, I have always looked at Israel as a nation of heroes and believed that if any nation could claim to be the home of the brave, it is Israel. That's my starting point.
But I don't see anything heroic about what the IDF is doing in Gaza. It pains me to say that.
The population of Gaza is something over 2 million people, and the growth rate is almost 3% per year, in the world's Top 40. The 'dead' casualty count is about 30,000 - and these are Hamas' own highly unreliable, 'know serial liar' figures? So that means, in the most simple, brutal math, that the population is still growing, or at worst, that the war death rate is approaching the birth rate.
I know that sounds cynical, but - can someone explain how they could objectively use the word 'genocide' to describe this situation, and not be considered grossly dishonest?
If it is Israels intention to exterminate the Palestinians they are doing a very bad job of it.
Robert Cook said...
"Why is the Palestinian goal of the extermination of Israel and the appropriation of her territory for the exclusive ownership of Muslims morally preferable to the Israeli goal of expelling HAMAS from Gaza followed by annexation?"
IF the Palestinians's goal was the extermination of Israel that would be no more morally preferable or supportable than Israel's goal to erase the Palestinians, (e.g., Hamas' murderous October 07 attack on innocent Israelis was a morally unsupportable crime)
"From the River to the Sea", you lying sack of shit.
In the Marine Corps, we would have called him a shitbird. I love the smell of burning bug-eyed leftie airmen in the morning.
- Krumhorn
Robert Cook said...
"What is it like to live without a conscience?"
Personally, I don't know, you would have to observe or ask someone who lacks one.
You listen to teh Palestinians chant "From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free!"
Then you accuse the Israelis of genocide. / "erasing" the Palestinians.
Since you can't possibly be so stupid as to actually believe what your'e saying, it's clear you have no conscience.
"Never again" means "never again." it doesn't matter how many Nazis we have to kill to make sure of "Never again". and every single person backing Hamas is a Nazi. Every single person backing "from the river to the sea' is a Nazi.
If Israel wanted to murder all teh Palestinians, they'd all be dead. So claims that Israel is the "genocidal" one just show what a pathic lying sack of shit the person making those claims is
As a USAF veteran, his sacrifice for what he believed in means more to me than all of the Israeli lives that Hamas has allegedly murdered.
As a fellow USAF veteran, I'm ashamed to say I share the same status with you.
Allegedly murdered? Allegedly? They (Hamas) posted numerous videos of them doing just that. And celebrating it.
You must've been admin. Burn your DD214 before you embarrass yourself further.
Bob Boyd: So how should Israel go about accomplishing their war aim of driving Hamas from power and eliminating its capacity to mount further similar attacks to 10/7?
Be specific.
And also realistic.
This should be entertaining.
Robert Cook writes, "IF the Palestinians's goal was the extermination of Israel that would be no more morally preferable or supportable than Israel's goal to erase the Palestinians..."
Facile and filled to the brim with infamous falsehoods. Israel voluntarily relinquished Gaza to the Palestinians years ago in an attempt to placate Fatah and gain a two-state solution, which was REJECTED out of hand by Yasir Arafat's PLO.
And your comment, Plague Monk, still pisses me off.
On what fucking planet are "Bibi's fanboys" leftists?
You keep posting your bullshit? I'm going to keep taking you over right tackle.
“And yes, I am the real, new improved Rcocean. Remember there are seven seas, but only one Rcocean.“
You go Rcoco! Be all teh coco you can be!
Hey, rcocean 2.0
How many Christian civilians were murdered by Islamists and dictators last year?
5,600 -- at minimum confirmation, likely many more
6,000 or more were detained
More than 4,000 kidnapped -- women and girls to become sex slaves
5,000 churches were destroyed
That's on you, you ethical idiot. It probably makes your day. Got any daughters to send them?
@ Jason
"The United States has in fact fought very similar battles to those the Israelis currently face in Gaza, less than a decade ago in Mosul and Raqqa, in worse circumstances given that in both cases American airpower was carrying local partner forces along.
Disciplined targeting led to civilian casualties more than an order of magnitude lower than those we have seen out of Gaza, despite facing substantial forces of well-trained and equipped ISIS fighters. In Mosul, a city of one and a half million - almost the size of the Gaza Strip by itself - the UN recorded only 2500 civilian deaths during the battle. In Raqqa, a city of 300,000, some 1600 civilian deaths were noted.
The difference in population-loss ratios can be explained handily by the relative competence of the ground troops involved. Mosul was taken by the regular Iraqi military while Raqqa was assaulted by a ragged force of Syrian Kurdish militia. US ground troops would have been better-trained and equipped and would have required less bombardment to clear through the objective than either of these.
Using these battles as a yardstick I would expect an American assault on Gaza to generate no more than 2000 civilian deaths to defeat Hamas and secure the entire Strip - while the Israelis have caused more than ten times that to, charitably, secure half of the place. Or to put it a little differently, the IDF is killing civilians at a rate of approximately twenty times what I would expect out of American forces."
https://twitter.com/ArmchairW/status/1758010441794773490
Bob Boyd: So how should Israel go about accomplishing their war aim of driving Hamas from power and eliminating its capacity to mount further similar attacks to 10/7?
Be specific.
And also realistic.
This should be entertaining.
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