Said John Judis, quoted in "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?
John Judis and Ruy Teixeira explain how liberals lost their way" (The Free Press)(transcript and audio)(Judis and Teixeira are political analysts).
The "Honestly" podcast host asks: "So, you didn’t anticipate that the party that said, 'We are the party of Paul Ryan, we’re the party of tax cuts, we’re the party of Milton Friedman,' would actually start to sound more liberal on economic policy?"
Ruy Teixeira answers: "Yeah, and that’s another way in which Trump was misunderstood. He got the nomination because the Republican Party itself was changing and was becoming more of a working-class party driven by these kinds of voters. They didn’t want to hear the Paul Ryan message over and over again. They didn’t want to hear just about tax cuts. They didn’t want to just hear, 'We unleash the free market, everything will be great. Trust us on this.' They were mad, and they thought the elites of the Republican Party as well as the Democratic Party were selling them out. So Trump’s message fell on receptive ears, and that shock to the Republican Party system is still with us today, because I don’t think there’s any turning back to the former economic approach of the Republicans. Trump is the guy who changed the landscape. This gets away from looking at him as just an avatar of white supremacy or whatever it is he is frequently portrayed as by some Democrats."
In that view, the Democrats are the throwbacks.
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78 comments:
I was thinking “what a lame question,” but Teixera’s answer was very perceptive. I see why Althouse highlighted it. These guys are really good at spotting trends but not at predicting the establishment reactionary responses to those trends. But then I too am constantly surprised at DC’s ability to “fuck things up,” so to speak.
all this, is WHY the only people that that Hate (and FEAR) Trump more than the DNC is the RNC
What Judis says certainly corresponds to my own analysis. I’ll go a half step further. Donald Trump realized that the Chamber of Commerce was dictating policy to the Republicans, but corporations were overwhelmingly donating to the Democrats. I understand why, or I think I do, but those policies were not good for the small business owners, people who worked for small businesses, and, in general, working people who were down at the low end of he economic ladder. How did he know how to fix that? He has a degree in economics from Wharton, back when it was still Wharton.
that shock to the Republican Party system is still with us today, because I don’t think there’s any turning back to the former economic approach of the Republicans.
and yet.. Mitt Romney's niece Rona is STILL running the RNC..
Mitt (and Rona (and Mitch (and Nicki))) say that they'll vote for ANY democrat before voting for trump.
The RNC. The new whig party.. and Just as relevant.
Progressives don't have any ideas - other than "shut up" "Obey" and "Abortion!"
mixed in with lies and BS.
wait wait. wait.
we were told breathlessly and endlessly by Rachel Maddow and her ilk - that Hillary lost because Trump is a Russian spy.
"more liberal on economic policy"
Right. DJT was basically Dick Gephart with bigger deficits.
"This gets away from looking at him as just an avatar of white supremacy or whatever it is he is frequently portrayed as by some Democrats."
Well, but portraying him that way has worked nicely for Dems.
"In that view, the Democrats are the throwbacks."
Not at all. They are going full prog. The Biden basement and election shenanigan strategy worked. They don't need a working-class majority anymore, and for now Trump is their best weapon.
Careful! This type of discussion, if repeated by various people, will bootstrap Trump’s campaign.
The party of Milton Friedman sounds great- where do I vote for that one?
…part of the problem here is the left believing its own lies. Trump was willing to sit down and negotiate with Democrats on just about everything- immigration. Democrats ignored all that in favor of whatever it is they’re doing now…
It used to make me really mad, every time I saw that white-haired Irishman Sonnovabich from the C-O-C walking into the White House for meetings. They're poison for the American economy, in the same way that the Teacher's Union is poison for education. They have both become parasites with an unseemly interest in the health of the host.
John Judis is absolutely correct. I saw Trump 4 or 5 times during the 2016 campaign and there was nothing about race. It was all about middle class issues.
I realized this the first time I saw him at a high school gym in Sioux City, Iowa. It is a very blue collar town. I knew nothing about Trump other than his TV show, NY manner and his casino bankruptcy.
He was welcomed with open arms. He had someone come up from the crowd and mess up his hair!
I talked at length with a packinghouse worker who was about my age. She pointed out the slide in the middle class. She claimed she had to beg to get her job because she was white. She was working that job to pay for health insurance. Back in the 70s she owned a Mustang convertible. Life was good for the middle class. Now look where we are.
The GOP is now the class for the little guy, the working class. Trump's Inauguration speech spoke of the Forgotten Man.
"I found the crown of France lying in the gutter and I picked it up with my sword." -Napolean
Trump found the crown of America rusting outside an abandoned steel mill and picked it up with respect.
Trump is more than just about any other president (you have to go back to Grover Cleveland) eligible to authentically ask “are you better off now than you were four years ago”?
Ah yes, Teixeira and Judis, those ultra-MAGA conspiracy peddlers who brought us the racist "great replacement theory."
Bio note: Teixeira is most noted for his work on political demography, and particularly for The Emerging Democratic Majority (2002), which he co-wrote with John Judis, a book arguing that the Democratic Party are demographically destined to become a majority party in the United States of the early 21st century.
Gee ya THINK? Maybe they'll even wake up and come to appreciate why a lot of us don't like the too many, too fast immigration tidal wave either. Oh that's just "racism" doncha know.
In that view, the Democrats are the throwbacks.
And so are the Republicans who want to go back to the world as they knew it before Trump. That world doesn't exist anymore. It's gone and it isn't coming back. And they're the ones who destroyed it. Trump didn't destroy it. He just recognized the opportunity in winning over voters Republicans and Democrats only sneer at and want to forget.
This is true, but the changes run even deeper. The parties have flipped. The old Democrat party was the party of working class, non-college educated people and the GOP represented the country club white shoe, chamber of commerce, Pat Boone people. Democrats now are dominated by the University educated, K street, wealthy, coastal elites. GOP grass roots are now the MAGA working class rural riff raff. Chris Christy/Nikki Haley et al are holdovers trying to recreate a GOP that doesn't exist anymore. DeSantis understands this, but (bless his heart) he's just not articulate or charismatic enough to connect with the broad base of the new GOP.
Democrats are in tune with diversity, redistributive change, political congruence, labor and environmental arbitrage, and human rites.
The great irony is that Judis and Tiexiera in their 2002 book "The Emerging Democratic Minority" held out the hope the Democrats have clung to ever since - that demographic changes were assembling a permanent Democratic majority of students, blacks, Hispanics, along with the older New Deal working class. What the two of them came to see was that the Democrats only took the new part of that coalition seriously and increasingly disdained the older part. Of course, the Democrats also disdain blacks and Hispanics in a similar way as well. So "disdain" is the poison (a class-based poison) that is dooming them. And the great symbol or focus of that disdain is their contempt for Trump. It is their tar baby. The more they hit it, the more stuck they get themselves.
Sweating Democrats dipping their toes in Trump.
It's wasn't Democrats, it was the Press and all Talking Heads who weren't saying "I'm a Democrat and here's what I think about Trump"
Trump just swept up the working people that the Democrats kicked to the curb in their attempt to engineer the electorate, and oh by the way, provide cheap labor to their donor oligarchs. Tiexera wrote that road map, now he feels pressed to explain why it didn’t work.
Remember, when Democrats say it, it’s “the emerging Democratic majority,” and when the Republicans say it, it that racist “replacement theory.”
They didn’t want to hear the Paul Ryan message over and over again. They didn’t want to hear just about tax cuts. They didn’t want to just hear, 'We unleash the free market, everything will be great. Trust us on this.
They get so close and miss the punchline. We do want to hear about tax cuts and unleashing free markets. They are right, we wanted to hear more, because it isn't really about tax cuts as it is spending cuts, which is hard action taken to limit government power. You really have to cut the spending too. With a limited government, the free market will be unleashed. But the punchline is "trust us", and conservative voters did. Specifically, they trusted a Bush family member twice and were burned. They trusted John McCain, and he gave them a thumbs down. They trusted Mitt Romney, and who crumpled like a cheap suit when wrongfully challenged in a debate, and then laid on the floor to be walked over by Democrats once he became a Senator. Trust is the real issue.
The voters in the Republican party didn't change. The leaders of the Republican party quit listening to the voters.
Now it is happening on the Democrats side. The lack of trust is why Biden is now losing voters. Don't believe me, ask the voters in a poll, who do you trust more with the American economy? Who do you trust more with our National defense. Who do you trust more with Foreign relations? Teixeira, Judis, and Weiss want the same things they always did from Democrats, but they are not getting it. Biden is doing more to help the economies in China, Ukraine, and Iran than he is the US. Biden abandoned Afghanistan. And in so doing, Biden didn't even let our allies know he was going to walk away. Now, who knows were the Democrat leaders actually stand on the Hamas/Israel situation? Who knows what Biden would do if China annexed Taiwan or Venezuela annexes Guyana? We do know Biden's Administration has claimed it lowered healthcare prices, fixed our supply chain issues, and lowered inflation to the point that corporations should cut prices. Do you think Democrat voters believe those claims?
Right now, he's just got that little Israel problem,...
And that is precisely why the Koch-Soros axis of evil is hell-bent on destroying Trump.
Yet Trump did cut taxes and his SCOTUS picks did overturn Roe. He’s now moved on to the next big issues and GOPe is still talking abortion and playing go-along-to-get-along in the Swamp just like Ryan did.
"... that’s another way in which Trump was misunderstood...."
Misunderstood by whom? He was not that complicated. Trump's public detractors, the mediaswine, the Democrat elite, the GOPe, the Hollywood tribe are neither ignorant nor stupid. They smeared Trump and he made it easy for them with his ad libbing and intemperate reaction to criticism.
Meanwhile, the seditious Paul Ryan and petulant John McCain betrayed the people who elected them and Trump by opposing Trump's agenda.
Ryan, in particular, enabled Democrat loons to gain the White House, the Congress and, consequently, the country.
"They get so close and miss the punchline. We do want to hear about tax cuts and unleashing free markets. They are right, we wanted to hear more, because it isn't really about tax cuts as it is spending cuts, which is hard action taken to limit government power. You really have to cut the spending too. With a limited government, the free market will be unleashed."
I couldn't agree more. But is Trump a spending cut proponent?
Where does the "racist" stuff come from. I don't think he's said or done anything racist. Am I wrong?
"In that view, the Democrats are the throwbacks."
Bob Boyd: "And so are the Republicans who want to go back to the world as they knew it before Trump."
Its amazing how many republicans on this blog fit that description and want to pretend their GOPe backed candidates are the answer moving forward.
Tina Trent: "And that is precisely why the Koch-Soros axis of evil is hell-bent on destroying Trump."
With lots and lots and lots of help from the GOPe-ers.
Thee is a very interesting interview with Marjorie Taylor Greene on Tucker's X page. It's Ep. 43, dated November 30.
Contrast her logic and demeanor with the public- and social-media portrayals of her.
...I'd be interested in comments from the Althouse commentariat.
Medical insurance... however, the goal was not to make insurance, but rather medical services and products affordable and available. The goal was to reform underfunded Medicare, unfunded Medicaid, and Obamacares mandates forcing shared responsibility through progressive prices.
The voters in the Republican party didn't change. The leaders of the Republican party quit listening to the voters.
This goes back a ways. Remember the 1994 election ? Republican sweep. Did spending slow down? How about the national debt? They cooperated with Clinton's raid on the Social Security "Trust Fund" and got to pretend to "balance the budget." The last real Republican president was Eisenhower.
Trump just swept up the working people that the Democrats kicked to the curb in their attempt to engineer the electorate
Democratic gerrymandering... black, blue, peach, orange, brown, white, yellow, baby and all the other colors and classes in the diversity taxonomic catalog.
that little Israel problem
The Hamas et al axis terrorists and domestic supporters of murder, rape, torture, and abduction tools of their trade in the world war Spring series.
Well on policy it would probably be hard to distinguish Trump from the Democrat political core circa 1985--he ran as a Republican, but he's really an ur-Democrat. And that's not a bad thing.
Welcome to the party, pal.
rehajm said...
The party of Milton Friedman sounds great- where do I vote for that one?
Amen to that.
They didn’t want to hear the Paul Ryan message over and over again. They didn’t want to hear just about tax cuts.
Which makes it even more ironic that Trump’s only major legislative achievement was Paul Ryan-style tax cuts.
"Remember, when Democrats say it, it’s “the emerging Democratic majority,” and when the Republicans say it, it that racist “replacement theory.”
Mike Anton calls this the Celebration Parallax.
It's not happening and it is good that it is.
Trump did more for lower and middle class americans than ANY politician in my lifetime. And he actually cared about those peoples lives and livelihoods versus their value for political power. PERIOD.
"Remember, when Democrats say it, it’s “the emerging Democratic majority,” and when the Republicans say it, it that racist “replacement theory.”
Mike Anton calls this the Celebration Parallax.
It's not happening and it is good that it is.
Several commentators have suggested the parties have switched. They haven’t. But I can understand the thought since it appears that the people supporting them somehow seem to have flipped.
The DemoncRAT party, since before the Great Unpleasantness from 1860-1865 has always been the party of group rights. Which, by the way, do not exist in the Constitution.
The Republicans have been the party of individual rights, the ones enshrined in the Constitution.
DemoncRATs are the ones dealing with competing groups all looking for a piece of the government pie. The Republican base consists of people who want the government to butt out.
There are a few issues where the government can be seen as butting in or being forced out. Let’s take same sex marriage. Marriage had a definition for hundreds of years, thousands actually, predating Christianity in Western society. A union between one man and one woman. Plural marriage in any form was prohibited, and two women or two men was unthinkable. Then, IIRC, a state judge in Massachusetts ordered, repeated with emphasis, ORDERED the state legislature to establish it. If he had been properly impeached and removed from office for establishing a judicial dictatorship, judges throughout the nation would have taken notice. Instead, since it was what DemoncRAT leaders wanted to establish another group beholden to them, the legislature rolled over and played dead.
Was the government butting in or butting out? Most definitely butting in. If SSM is constitutionally legal- there is no legal basis to deny polygamy. A belief which at one time barred muslims from immigrating. And as mentioned in another thread by Quayle got his great grandfather kicked out of Congress.
Democrats are the punitive party.
they like to punish.
Even if Tax cuts increased money to the treasury - they are never for it. why?
Democxrats like to punish.
Trump has a history of working with real people, unlike 99% of the DC "insiders." They don;'t understand and never will. Paul Ryan has never held a real job.
Milton Friedman once got the wall street journal to print a retraction when they called him a conservative.
In his 1962 book "capitalism and freedom" he spends much of a chapter explaining why he identified as a "liberal" he grumbled on multiple occasions about needing to identify as a "classical liberal" to avoid being confused with being a quasi-fascist modern liberal/progressive.
Hayek, another Nobel laureate, complained in his 1941 book "road to serfdom" that "the word liberal has been hijacked to mean almost the exact opposite of its historical meaning" he complained about having to use "classical liberal" and "libertarian" as replacements.
"liberal" translates from the Latin as "a freean" it also gives us liberty and liberate from its root liber.
John Henry
I couldn't agree more. But is Trump a spending cut proponent?
That is one of two areas where I have a real problem with Trump. He was a big proponent of saving a couple of million here and a few million there. So proud of saving money on the Jerusalem embassy. I think he said 2b or something. One of his bitches was the ungodly wages we were paying Afgan soilders. Cheaper wall material, etc. A few niggly things about military budgets while he approved wads of money on military spending (which of course was because the Dems treat it like their own personal piggy bank. A problem every Rep since Nixon has had to deal with).
There is a certain logic to it since businessmen know that every single nickel comes off the top line, but I think he was entirely out of his league when it came to government excess.
I'm sure he knows that entitlements are the big driver of deficits, but when push comes to shove he was like any politician. Cutting benifits like SS and Medi is political suicide. But the reality is that unless we do that the slope runs downhill. His supposed fix for American healthcare was pie in the sky.
So, no. I never considered Trump a fiscal conservative:( DeSantis may be better on fiscal matters, but it's hard to tell. Comparing State and Federal spending is like apples and oranges.
Using the true historic meaning of liberal (a/k/a classic liberal, libertarian, minarchist) and its basic philosophy of minimal, limited and local government Donald Trump was perhad the most liberal president in 200 years certainly in the last 100.
No other reason is needled to support his once and future presidencies.
There certainly are other reasons for those who need them. Most flow from his liberalism. (classic liberalism if you insist)
John Henry
The thing that makes me run FROM Trump - when he trashes everyone but corrupt democrats.
The thing that makes me run TO Trump? - when democrats trash Trump with lies and BS.
A lot of Trump supporters, including on this thread, despise Republicans in elective office (they call them "GOPe"). But we aren't electing a King or a Duce; we are electing a President who will be able to achieve his goals ONLY with support in Congress, which can come ONLY from Republicans (in the 1980's there were Democrats in Congress who supported President Reagan, but those days are gone). I hope that as Trump gets closer to the nomination, he will make clear that he looks forward, as President, to working with a Republican Congress and Senate. And I hope Trump's supporters shut up about "GOPe".
Trump did more for lower and middle class americans than ANY politician in my lifetime. And he actually cared about those peoples lives and livelihoods versus their value for political power. PERIOD.
Well, you are just deluded. What did Trump actually do for lower and middle class Americans? Improve working conditions through support of unions and safety regulations? Do anything about corporate greed?
“They were mad, and they thought the elites of the Republican Party as well as the Democratic Party were selling them out.”
FYI: still f/king mad.
I’m voting Trump.
Regardless.
Hey Crack? It’s a free country. If Trump has a little problem- he’s allowed his opinion. As are you.
He may broker a deal of the century for all invoked in that little problem. It’s a twofer.
"that little Israel problem"
The cycle of life, each generation rebels against the next by going crazy and sane in periodic change. The lost generation bred the War vets, they bred beatniks and hippies, the hippies bred the techno cognitives, the TC's bred the woke.
The woke will breed little, but they will be consolidators, families that love each other with no hangups about status, and a fierce protectiveness of their cohort. I hope the subsequent gen will be the first to live in space, not everyone, but enough to expand humanity spiritually. Dirtside will still exist, sadly, and suffer over time. Dirtside and Farside will become separate genera. The ultimate redlining, but it will not be race based, and you can move to Farside if you want to.
Hamas will be safe, locked in the 7th Century. Notice that Hamas kids are just like Hamas parents, they don't rebel.
Dave Begley said...
"I talked at length with a packinghouse worker who was about my age. She pointed out the slide in the middle class. She claimed she had to beg to get her job because she was white. She was working that job to pay for health insurance."
I'm sure she was thrilled after Trump was elected and made health care more affordable to everyone.
Freder - you are delusional.
The left do nothing unless it benefits their long-term profiteering goals and power goals.
Unions? Unions do not help people - unions help union bosses and democrat party leaders. unions = coffer filling. Period.
Unions are a TAX on work. with not much upside.
That's why forced unionization is the only way the scheme can operate.
Tax cuts are good things.
They spur economic growth, and actually increase money to the US treasury.
Paul Ryan and Trump were right!
The Trump tax cuts were an important economic act when he was President. They will sunset in 2025.
* invoked = involved.
Weird typo or autocorrect.
5:09 The Godfather.
Thank you.
Dude1394 said...
"Trump did more for lower and middle class americans than ANY politician in my lifetime. And he actually cared about those peoples lives and livelihoods versus their value for political power. PERIOD."
I’m really sorry to say this, Dude, but you’re a moron.
I used to always hear Democrats saying, “The election was all just Trump’s racist appeals.”
That’s always it, you know. It’s never that the Democrats ran a poor candidate (e.g., George McGovern, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton) or that their policies suck. It’s always racism and ignorant voters who don’t know what’s best for them or it’s Russia! Russia! Russia!
Biden's Labor Board is trying to sneak in Card Check. Workers won't vote for unions, so they have to resort to subterfuge. About says it all, doesn't it?
The Godfather: "A lot of Trump supporters, including on this thread, despise Republicans in elective office (they call them "GOPe")."
Those elected republicans that work hand in glove with democraticals, not all "elected republicans" though I understand why rhetorically you might want to use that lie rhetorically, to undermine the republican base voters deserve to be called out, regardless of how uncomfortable that may make you feel or how strongly you may feel the need to defend their actions.
The Godfather: "I hope that as Trump gets closer to the nomination, he will make clear that he looks forward, as President, to working with a Republican Congress and Senate. And I hope Trump's supporters shut up about "GOPe"."
In 2016 and 2017 Trump did make clear that he was looking forward to working with the republican majorities and the leadership...and how was he "rewarded" for that?
Your GOPe heroes, the entire republican leadership, worked hand in glove to undermine his policy preferences and to set Trump up for continuous corrupted investigations to hamstring him and deliver a couple of impeachments.
So, in terms of just who should "shut up", why dont you start with yourself?
"Improve working conditions through support of unions and safety regulations?"
I worked my entire career in chemical manufacturing, union shops. 40% of my job was creating paperwork, filing paperwork, keeping track of paperwork, and surviving audits of paperwork for OSHA, MOSH, DOT, ISO, Union overtime procedures, Union grievances, Union job assignments, etc. etc. etc. Do these regulations improve safety and working conditions? Marginally. Most of it was a waste of time and money.
"He would talk about bad trade deals."
The decline in stock market value caused by Trump's trade war announcements “amounted to a $3.3 trillion loss of firm value (equivalent to 16% of U.S. GDP [Gross Domestic Product] in 2019).”
Trump had no idea what he was doing.
"And I hope Trump's supporters shut up about "GOPe"."
We'll shut up about the GOPe when they stop voting in lockstep with Progressives to destroy the country.
"I'm sure she was thrilled after Trump was elected and made health care more affordable to everyone."
Healthcare is NOT more affordable. Obama made sure of that. Cloward and Pivening us to death to pay for illegals healthcare.
The woke will breed little, but they will be consolidators, families that love each other with no hangups about status, and a fierce protectiveness of their cohort.
This is utopianism.
Freder Frederson said...
Trump did more for lower and middle class americans than ANY politician in my lifetime. And he actually cared about those peoples lives and livelihoods versus their value for political power. PERIOD.
"Well, you are just deluded. What did Trump actually do for lower and middle class Americans? Improve working conditions through support of unions and safety regulations? Do anything about corporate greed?"
He deregulated. The lowest black unemployment in SIXTY years. So. Like. Eat a bag of dicks.
"Gadfly: The decline in stock market value caused by Trump's trade war announcements “amounted to a $3.3 trillion loss of firm value (equivalent to 16% of U.S. GDP [Gross Domestic Product] in 2019).”
Trump had no idea what he was doing."
The S&P 500 was up 31% over 2019 and 24 % over 2020.
What color is the moon on your planet, Gadfly?
My mistake--only up 18% in 2020.
Michael K said...@ 1:37
All the things they said they were going to do, they never did. Didn't even try.
Godfather - all these GOPe haters are going to be lost after 2024.
Lost.
They can become democrats. That'll show Paul Ryan.
Hey hey!
Ho ho!
GOPe has got to go!
wendybar said...
"Healthcare is NOT more affordable. "
Sigh.
Boulder Buffoon: "Godfather - all these GOPe haters are going to be lost after 2024.
Lost.
They can become democrats. That'll show Paul Ryan."
LOL
Paul Ryan's biggest suckup defender reacts badly to another Paul Ryan critique! Again!
Boulder Buffoon will not stand for criticism of her GOPe heroes!
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