Ha ha... "two of them." One is Haley. The other is DeSantis in his elevator boots. I thought it was a cheap joke when I heard it last night and started yelling. It's only this morning that I noticed the "two of them" swipe at DeSantis. That's absurd and subtle enough to lift the joke to a new plane and get my respect.The more time Vivek spends around the GOP establishment, the more contempt he harbors for them, and rightfully so.
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) November 9, 2023
The neocon GOP of 2002 never went away. They just pretended to under Trump. You see that now as they're partying as if it's Sept 12, 2001:https://t.co/zCSgizB63R
November 9, 2023
"The more time Vivek spends around the GOP establishment, the more contempt he harbors for them, and rightfully so."
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I wish there was a "like" button - that last sentence!
Vivek is emerging as the boy who says the emperor is not wearing clothes. But, bluntly stating the obvious didn't win Trump many fence-sitting allies and made him many enemies. Without a positive message, Vivek is just Trump-me-too and Trump-lite.
I think 2/3rds of voters seek to thread the needle: No Trump, no Vivek, no Biden, and limits on establishment corruption. I'm not seeing that potential candidate yet.
The crack about the heels was a Trumpian comment by Vivek.
Vivek would be a GREAT VP. But I can't imagine Trump picking him as he would outshine Trump.
Althouse community!
I will be at a Vivek townhall Sunday after next. I have an idea for a question. If you have questions, post them here.
Would it be fair to classify Greenwald as a neo-communist? Conservative lefties retain a soft spot for Russia.
That's the one excerpt I saw, and I thought it was funny and accurate. The twerp has balls.
I'm not interested in zingers and gotchas. I want someone stable and responsible to lead our country through some rocky times.
I was interested in Vivek at first - he comes across better in writing than speaking because he can't be as snarky & there is more substance.
But I think he is not for me.
Ha, ha, lifts. Tell us about your platforms, Ron.
After a quick review of mainstream reporting, including Fox, I thought Vivek had completely bombed out last night. Then I saw that video and realized that I had been misled and feel a little like a "moron or a scumbag"* for being fooled.
Did any of this disappointing cast of characters stand tall and follow up on his direct attack on the dishonesty of the media?
Did any pay more that an elevated lip service to the criminal abuses of the justice system that are an attempt to jail the leading opposition candidate?
People say that they are disappointed in having to choose between Trump and Biden - well, I don't see anything better in the rollover Republican candidates on stage except Vivek, who is not going anywhere.
Trump 2024. It's the only way. Whether you like him or not.
*Quotes from my fan club here at Althouse.
It is a good question: Why do Democrats moderate a Republican debate?
I said yesterday that blacks will vote with Trump, but not with the GOP, and Vivek (while not black) is a symbol of that split. He's like an Indian American Ben Shapiro, with a similar annoyingly over-caffeinated way about him, which is highly-effective when he's over the target, and almost-aggravating when he's not. But, what's best about him - what's just like Trump - is he shows up for the show: throwing uncomfortable MAGA truth bombs that expose the inner workings of the Democratic Party, sure, BUT also the interior of the GOP, for the lounge of hypocrisy they've become.
And he names names. It's "Hillary Clinton disinformation." That builds credibility. And the way he wrecked that MSNBC reporter? That's THE "Honest Liar" Dave Chappelle spoke of, who citizens need to see right now.
Anyone familiar with the MCU has already seen the best version of "The Avengers" that we're going to get: We don't need or want anyone else defending the status quo. The status quo SUCKS. Christie? Haley? DeSantis? They reek of it. So, while I disagreed with him on a lot, and still can't see myself voting for him, I liked Vivek much, much better than the others.
He needs a better haircut, tho.
That's strange...
All of American politics is a cheap joke that costs the same as an expensive tragedy.
If those people are our hope, then we are deeply screwed.
Vivek is marking territory for the future, and I think he's the only one up there who is smart enough to know that those clowns aren't it.
i CANNOT see myself EVER voting for Nikki..
WHAT is The Point of our war with russia?
WHAT is the objective? WHERE is the endpoint?
How many more ukrainians must die as Our proxies?
not one inch eastward
conversation in 1990 between then-U.S. Secretary of State James Baker and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
Baker floats this idea of letting Germany reunify in exchange for NATO moving not one inch eastward.
Gorbachev's like, OK
But NATO expands anyway -
so first in the '90s with a few countries in central Europe,
again in the 2000s to bring in even more countries further to the east,
including a handful of former Soviet republics.
And the Russians are just feeling more and more antagonized every time.
Trump hair was proven genuine with tugging on his locks
DeSantis should tug-off boots and prove no stinky tricks
The fact that Vivek is such a lying douchebag as to pretend that DeSantis is a "Dick Cheny" shows just how little he's got going for him.
Thanks Vivek for establishing that you're not worth my vote
Welker looked like the cat that ate the canary after Vivek challenged her re Russian collusion hoax. Amazing.
Respect the joke.
Rodney got no respect.
gilbar said...
But NATO expands anyway -
Good. It's a defensive alliance whose purpose is to keep the Russians from repeating history by conquering neighbors. This is a complete positive
so first in the '90s with a few countries in central Europe,
again in the 2000s to bring in even more countries further to the east,
including a handful of former Soviet republics.
All of whom have legitimate grounds for fearing America's enemy Russia
And the Russians are just feeling more and more antagonized every time.
So what?
That's like saying "the US shouldn't be in alliances with Taiwan, South Korea, or Japan, because it 'antagonizes' Communist China"
Russia is our enemy. Sane people work to keep their enemies weaker.
Right now the US is sending a lot of stockpiled equipment to Ukraine to help them successfully fight and do all the dying to keep from being enslaved by our enemy, who is also their enemy.
I don't see how any American patriot, or anyone who puts America first, rather than Russia first, would have a problem with this
Without a positive message, Vivek is just Trump-me-too
I find him smart, but glib. I want someone who has a goal and can lay out a plan to get there, Vivek isn't that guy. Trump is good at picking goals, but sucks at planning and organization. He doesn't have the political experience and falls back on being Trump. Old dogs and all that ...
Enigma said...
Vivek is emerging as the boy who says the emperor is not wearing clothes. But, bluntly stating the obvious
Except he's targeting a fully dressed one. Which means he's bluntly stating lies
1: Nikki is a loser, all he says about her is true
2: DeSantis is the real deal, someone who governs as if he's on our side, but, completely unlike Trump, does so competently and successfully.
If DeSantis had been President 2017 - 2020, the FBI would have been suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop, and DHS wouldn't have been working with Stanford to suppress as many conservatives as possible on Social media.
I guess Althouse's feminist sensibilities were offended when she originally thought Vivek's zinger was meant only for Haley. Now that she understands it was intended for a white man as well, it's been elevated and somehow has become "subtle".
Nope. It was never subtle, but it was spot on. Unfortunately, Althouse's thought process, as she explains it herself, demonstrates the heavy lift any conservative candidate will have persuading women like her to vote for him (or her) in the presidential election.
gilbar said...
WHAT is The Point of our war with russia?
Well, gosh, let's think about it
Has Putin EVER been anything but an enemy to the US?
No, no he hasn't
Did the US find itself spending a ton of lives and treasure the last time Russia got powerful?
Yes, yes we did
If you're not a complete f'ing moron, is it therefore a good idea to keep our enemy Russia from getting powerful again?
Yes, yes it is
WHAT is the objective? WHERE is the endpoint?
The Objective is for Russia's ruling thugs to understand we're not going to stop them from robbing and abusing their own people, but they're not going to get anywhere trying to rob and abuse anyone else.
The end point is Russia stops threatening any of its Western neighbors, because they all know Russia's threats are hollow, and the Russians all know the threats won't get them anything
How many more ukrainians must die as Our proxies?
That is the most arrogantly, ignorantly, stupid thing I've ever read. The Ukrainians are fighting because they don't want to go back to being Russian slaves. The Biden Admin tried to get them to roll over, they refused, and blackmailed the Biden Admin into helping them fight.
So what's going on in your pathetic excuse for a mind is that NO ONE in the world has agency except for Americans?
not one inch eastward
conversation in 1990 between then-U.S. Secretary of State James Baker and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
Baker floats this idea of letting Germany reunify in exchange for NATO moving not one inch eastward.
Gorbachev's like, OK
Wait. So the entirety of the "but the US guaranteed Russia that Nato wouldn't expand eastward" is that Bush Sec of State Baker "floated" the idea to Gorby?
And that binds the inter West for the rest of history?
But the Budapest Accords, an actual treaty signed by both Ukraine and Russia, where Russia agreed to be permanently bound to respect Ukraine's then borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up their nuclear weapons, THAT is "meaningless and unimportant"?
Are you a complete and utter lunatic?
Having Vivek hold a place at the table is like slipping a jar of vegemite into breakfast when you've been told that Trump's marmite is clearly off the menu. Close enough for government work, say the fans. Me? I'm collapsing into my own cynicism, and I'm not proud of it.
I fear the nation will get exactly what it deserves. And in the worst possible way.
Hmm, so far it looks to me like the VP spot will be a contest between Vivek and Kim Reynolds.
Dave Begley said...
I will be at a Vivek townhall Sunday after next.. If you have questions, post them here.
will President Vivek pardon Trump?
I realize Ramaswamy is running for President, but he would make a great RNC Chair. He's young. He understands data. He's as fed up with the party as the rest of the country. He could raise a large sums of money. He's innovative and has not alienated the base.
Didn't watch the debate but saw all the hilarious clips. He's right. Why does the RNC keep putting candidates in front of bias, lying, corrupt establishment media moderators. That's just stupid.
The MAGA movement is about many things, but getting rid of war mongering neo-cons is front and center. We got burned and embarrassed by supporting Bush/Cheney and following them into Iraq. It took a while to realize, Holy Shit, there really aren't any WMDs. Motherfuckers lied.
Even the honorable ass kissed Colin Powell lied in front of the entire world at the UN.
Great line though. "Dick Cheney in three inch heels". Even going after DeSantis' "bootgate".
Final note. Chris Christie really is a piece of shit.
Everyone who currently, or previously, wears cowboy boots is dismayed at the swipes at Desantis. Cowboy boots always have heels. It's part of the basic design because you need the extra purchase the lift provides for sure control of stirrups.
Amy- I agree. Zingers and Gotchas is such a stupid way to choose a president.
Vivek will not be the nominee.
If he wants to stir it up and lob bombs where they are needed - fine by me.
Great point about the moderator. Having Stephanopoulos in 2012 for a republican primary debate pissed me off to no end. That year I gave up on the R's. They're hopeless.
Not sure what place Vivek has if Trump wins...I doubt he would be VP, but he's undeniably one of the smartest guys running in either party.
But I do like his scorched earth tactic.
The RNC is a disaster and wants to lose because it's better for fundraising and you can't be blamed for things if you're not in charge.
Rona has got to go, and Trump is partly to blame as he endorsed her.
Last year at this time DeSantis was a new hero for the MAGA movement. He was Joshua to Trump's Moses. Kicking ass in FL. Exposing sanctuary Martha's Vineyard. Taking on woke Disney.
But he got impatient. These debates are ridiculous shit shows. Now he has lumped himself in with Chris Christie, Mike Pence...
If he were smart, and wants a chance to be President someday, he'd drop out and endorse Trump.
I like DeSantis. But 2024 is not his time. The fight is about correcting course after the 2020 voter fraud. It's Trump's fight. It's MAGA vs the corrupt establishment. And at the moment, it's still 50/50. Trump wins if the election is clean in swing states.
Good Lord. Everyone on the stage is far superior to Trump based solely on communication skills. Which are a HUGE part of the job.
Gusty Winds said...
Last year at this time DeSantis was a new hero for the MAGA movement. He was Joshua to Trump's Moses. Kicking ass in FL. Exposing sanctuary Martha's Vineyard. Taking on woke Disney.
But he got impatient. These debates are ridiculous shit shows. Now he has lumped himself in with Chris Christie, Mike Pence...
If he were smart, and wants a chance to be President someday, he'd drop out and endorse Trump.
Trump is a low energy loser. No one who values America, and DeSantis does, is going to drop out and endorse the guy who keeps on pushing candidates in Primaries, then sits on his ass and watches them lose in the general election
You know, like Trump just did in Kentucky
I more or less understand what happened with the Democrats and Russia. They were really butthurt that Hillary lost, and Hillary told them to "blame Russia", so they flipped on a dime and went from loving Russia to "hating" it
What I don't understand is people who profess to love America, and hate the Left, who "decided" that since the Democrats hated America's enemy Russia, therefore they had to love Russia, and love the commie KGB colonel running Russia.
Seriously? You're so stupid and ignorant that you need your enemies to do all you thinking for you?
What I find extra special is gilbar telling us that since James Baker of the Bush 41 Administration (Sec of Defense Dick Cheney) made a suggestion to Gorby, therefore every American for all time must be bound by it.
Look, if it's your goal in life to be run by Hillary and the Bush Admin's that's your choice
Just don't claim you're anything other than a tool of the Left
Vivek's comment seemed stupid and pointless to me. I do not entirely agree with the war hawks on Ukraine. But what does that stupid joke do to clarify what is a complicated issue now? Halley seems like a serious person to me, and her service in the UN gave her enormous stature in my view. I'll vote for Trump if I have to. But as far as I am concerned, Vivek is a glib, smooth-talking lightweight. The times demand something very different, something much closer to DeSantis or Halley. It is too bad we likely won't get that. But we won't get Vivek either, and I am fine with that.
DeSantis has a good track record as a governor. Don't pay attention to news reports from anonymous sources that he is "distant" with members of his own Party -- the Republican Party in Florida is particularly detached from its base and still controlled by the Jeb! crowd, and they fight like heck against their own members. Now Rubio! is their golden boy.
Rich has a good idea suggesting Vivek as GOP Chair. The Party is the Party's biggest problem.
Not very fair to lump DeSantis in with Haley, who really is a neocon.
Gusty Winds said...
Why does the RNC keep putting candidates in front of bias, lying, corrupt establishment media moderators
Actually, it COULD work well for the RNC..
*IF* if every candidate would realize that their actual opponent WAS the moderators.
couple of hours of republicans torching the moderators and their networks would be
a) entertaining
b) party building
c) fund raising
*IF* the RNC wanted to win (which, they DON'T) they would ALL be rallying around Trump,
and making the case for him..
WHY?
because Nikki is NOT going to win
because Vivek is NOT going to win
because Desantis is NOT going to win
i'm NOT saying that Trump WILL win.. I'm not even saying that Trump CAN win..
But if Trump can't win, NO ONE can
AND, having people go out and vote for Trump could get a LOT of Senators and Reps elected..
Paving the way for 2028
PISSING OFF Trump supporters with a skag like Nikki Hawk isn't going to elect ANYONE
(besides Harris)
"Rich has a good idea suggesting Vivek as GOP Chair."
Agree. It's a shit job, but his fire and verve would be exciting.
I don’t get the wearing lifts joke. He wears cowboy boots. If you want to know if he is really 5’11” check his military records. Personally I don’t chose the leader of the free world based on height.
'Good Lord. Everyone on the stage is far superior to Trump based solely on communication skills. Which are a HUGE part of the job.'
Maybe.
But not a single one of them can have a rally and fill anything larger than a middle school gym.
DJT is not my first choice, but if he's the nominee I will walk through hell in a gasoline suit to vote for him...
Nikki Haley is NOT Dick Cheney in 3 inch heels. she's a Dick Cheney impersonator in 3 inch heels. Let me be honest. I loathed Dick Cheney. but he was a patriotic, smart guy, who rose from nothing to being Ford's Chief of Staff, DoD Secretary and Bushe's "Brain".
Haley is just some mediocre small state Governor who spent 2 years as UN Ambassdor. can anyone remember a single thing she did or said in the two years she was UN Ambassador?
So, take Dick Cheney, dumb him down, and put him in a skirt, and you got Nikki Haley.
Get the hook for Vivek. His 15 minutes of fame are up.
Narr said...
"All of American politics is a cheap joke that costs the same as an expensive tragedy."
That's a t-shirt.
Joe Smith said...
"DJT is not my first choice, but if he's the nominee I will walk through hell in a gasoline suit to vote for him..."
You're not alone. Love the imagery. Keep it up.
mikemtgy said...
"I don’t get the wearing lifts joke. He wears cowboy boots. If you want to know if he is really 5’11” check his military records. Personally I don’t chose the leader of the free world based on height."
You must be someone new to the American way of democracy. Did you miss Bush beating Gore with a nod? Howard Dean losing his race over saying "Yeeaaah"? (An aside: behind Dean is Tom Harkin, the other insane politician - after Bill Clinton - responsible for the government's endorsement of so-called alternative medicines.) How about Dukakis losing over being the kind of guy to ride in a Tank, but not the kind to use it if his wife was (hypothetically) raped and murdered. Or something. We will fire you over how you chew.
Amy- I agree. Zingers and Gotchas is such a stupid way to choose a president.
=======
does history show from presidential candidate to press secretary by any?
is RNC chair any worse / better?
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