From "Don Jr. Has a Conveniently Fuzzy Memory of Trump Org Finances: 'I Leave It to My CPAs'/The executive vice president introduced himself simply as a 'real estate broker' while on the witness stand, and claimed to 'know nothing' about basic accounting principles" (Vanity Fair).
So frustrating for Trump haters. Don Jr. just said the obvious thing. He trusted the experts. And the Vanity Fair writers strain to make it seem nefarious — "alluding to," "conveniently," etc.
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81 comments:
I'm sure the Vanity Fair journalists all know generally accepted accounting principles: you can't get a Journalism degree without it! Same with corporate and individual federal income taxation. Everyone knows that stuff.
How stupid this all is. It’s the Liz Warren ‘GE doesn’t pay taxes’ problem. They expect the economic illiterates will accept what they’re shoveling but to anyone with a thimble full of knowledge they end up looking more stupid than they are…
The judge in one of the several cases against Trump made a similar declaration, that she didn’t recall a political contribution she had made. If a lack of recall is okay for her, then it’s should be for Trump, Jr.
You know, it’s one of those goose-gander deals.
Vanity Fair(D) - they can all F off.
Well here we are. The fraud trial has no defrauded. The press is amazed that rich people don’t produce their own balance sheets. The law believes lenders rely on potential borrowers’ versions of their worth, the size of their buildings or pro forma earning of proposed projects. Oblivious to the fact that Trump’s large loans are non recourse thus requiring lenders to do their own very intense due diligence since if things go wrong the can’t sue the borrower but must foreclose on the real estate. No recourse to the borrower. Exculpatory.
The corrupt vile left are using Stalinist tactics to ruin this family.
All whole Crook Hillary and Crook Biden get a total pass.
"'The accountants worked on it,' he added. 'That’s what we paid them for.'"
Of course, that's what the Trump organization did. That's what every business, even small ones do -- you leave the details to the accountants and the tax lawyers and you work from their results.
The Democrats can blame themselves for this --- tax laws are so arcane and complex that any attempt to DIY can easily lead to legal consequences for the corporation. I can only imagine that real estate tax law in the city and state of NY is so complicated that quantum mechanics is simple by comparison.
Per reddit he supposedly should know GAAP because of an accounting degree but he was an econ major like Sr.
Econ majors do not sully their hands with the nitty gritty of Accounting 101.
Boring!
I am curious how many commentators will reference "Tragedy of the Commons."
It isn't unusual for a bunch of leftist grifters not to understand how a business actually works. They're thinking Scrooge McDuck. I'm thinking 401Ks and the IRS.
Something tells me this trial is going to backfire on the Dems.
Only a fool would run an organization as large as the Trump enterprises with such a hands-on approach to matters like financial filings. The laws and regulations involved are simply too complex for any but a team of paid professionals, like accountants and lawyers.
Same story for Trump's tax returns. Every time they talk about Trump cheating on his taxes, I picture the Orange Man sitting at his kitchen table under a ceiling light, with a green visor, a pen, and a pile of receipts in a shoebox.
Nobody's really stupid enough to think Trump does his own taxes, but they're craven enough to pretend otherwise.
Vanity Fair.
All of us MBAs, and I'm assuming Don Jr. is one as well since his Dad is, do get training in accounting and can define GAAP but that knowledge is woefully short of understanding current laws and (even more importantly post-Chevron) administrative rules. Anyone who thinks this is a gotcha needs to understand GAAP is to accounting what knowing how to fill out a 1040EZ is to knowing how to execute a full tax return for property-owning adults without TurboTax style software.
I agree with the hostess predictions about who will be disappointed that this is not the gotcha some may see in it. We all rely on experts for opinions all the time.
'I Leave It to My CPAs'
I imagine when it comes to building anything, he leaves it to his engineers and when it comes to legal issues, he leaves it to his lawyers. He probably leaves medical issues to his doctor.
Not seeing the problem here, but it gets me to wondering- do the Vanity Fair folks repair their own cars?
I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world.
I would be surprised if there is anyone who isn't a CPA or a Tax Attorney who knows what the rules of GAAP are.
An accountant takes account. That’s a problem.
That case is the world’s biggest fishing expedition.
See, Rh’s comment earlier about a smelly fish.
I don't think it's strange to lack familiarity with accounting principles for a person that isn't an accountant. It's different than, say, lay people that watch Law and Order and think that they are now lawyers.
He's right. Probably 99 44/100th % of non CFOs in the C suites know diddly squat about "Generally Accepted Accounting Principles". That figure goes up to 125% when you ask about executives in the DEI group. (How can it be more than 100%--well we're talking about DEI people here.)
I am shocked that the Trump family doesn't personally do their own taxes!
If the Hack-Democrap Party Press cannot find an actual gotcha moment - they can make one up on the fly.
"how to fill out a 1040EZ"
Lol EZ hasn't been a thing since TCJA
Here are other examples of the HACK-D Press using lies, inaccurate time-line events, different events!, and other forms of BS to sell their pro-Palestinian boo hoo AOC-chain-link-fense-rattling anti-Israel crapola.
"As Israel sends its troops farther into Gaza, vowing to eradicate Hamas in retaliation for a brazen assault in early October that massacred more than 1,400 people, videos and photographs of the conflict offer a powerful record of the costs of war. But online, those accounts are competing with misappropriated depictions of unrelated tragedies ...[..]
Among the popular images and videos supposedly illustrating the human toll of the war: A heap of dead children swaddled in white, described as Palestinians killed by Israeli forces. (In fact, the children are Syrian and the photograph was taken in 2013.) A young boy trembling in the dark, covered in a white residue and grasping a tree, cast as “another traumatized child in Gaza.” (In fact, the video was taken after a recent flood in Tajikistan.) A teenage girl being beaten by a mob and fatally lit on fire, promoted as proof of the ruthlessness of Hamas. (In fact, the video was filmed in Guatemala in 2015, and the girl was reportedly attacked over accusations she was involved in the killing of a taxi driver.)"
whole = while - up there.
Vanity Fair has deep expertise on taxes. After all, what about hair styles ? Those are like taxes. Change every year.
I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world
I agree with Crack…
…and I have a CPA/MST in the house- one of the best with uhnw families. They would be the first to admit gaps in knowledge of GAAP. The rule books come out quite often…
Filings have responsible parties for the contents labeled within.
Who is said to be responsible ? Usually it’s the accountants firm involved.
Trump hate is now law.
Just like abusing our asylum laws at the southern border. It's all groovy, man.
It's also legal to be Crook Biden with all his aliases used to launder money to enrich his vile family. I include Jill in the vile category - the former family baby sitter, revered by the d-hack Putinesque US media
I know something about GAAP. It is a set of accounting principles which, if followed correctly, will yield a financial statement based on historic cost. GAAP is almost useless for the purpose of determining a current market value of anything. According to GAAP, that rental house I bought for $200k in 1999 is now on my balance sheet at a value of $40,000. In a few more years, its value according to GAAP will be zero.
If I go to a bank seeking a loan on the property, what value should I assign? Zero?
Mr. Banker will, of course, require an independent appraisal of the property. If he didn't, he wouldn't be in the banking business.
Yes, we rely on experts, and it's preposterous to hold the client accountable for the work product. Imagine if it were the lawyer:
"Mr. Client, I see here you cited to Smith v. Jones in support of your motion to compel, can you explain why you failed to cite the superseding case of State v. Defendant?"
If you don't have the client giving instructions to lie, you've got nothing.
The Democrats can blame themselves for this --- tax laws are so arcane and complex that any attempt to DIY can easily lead to legal consequences for the corporation. I can only imagine that real estate tax law in the city and state of NY is so complicated that quantum mechanics is simple by comparison.
This!!!
Also, rich people hire lawyers instead of handling their own legal affairs, and hire cooks to do their cooking. Amazing how that works.
Not seeing the problem here, but it gets me to wondering- do the Vanity Fair folks repair their own cars?
Funny, I thought the same thing. Then I wondered if they could even give a basic elementary school explanation of what happens when you turn the key/push the start button.
I think the Crack Emcee is onto something there at 12:54.
Joe Biden is running the federal government.
Should we grill him on his extensive knowledge of accounting practices?
"And the Vanity Fair writers strain to make it seem nefarious — "alluding to," "conveniently," etc."
Yeah, they do, don't they. I bet they make little grunting noises. "eh-huh". "alluding to". "UUUUuuuu-Unh!". "conveniently".
And the Vanity Fair writers strain to make it seem nefarious
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Vanity Fair readers know nothing about basic Journalistic principles And they leave it to experts >> Vanity Fair writers
“I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world.”
Amen to that!
Journalists are people that are too stupid to be politicians.
Nobody's really stupid enough to think Trump does his own taxes.
I hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of people stupid enough to believe that Trump manages every detail of his personal and business finances.
If he was still a Democrat, they would hail him as a genius.
Donald Trump father and son received undergraduate degrees from UPenn Wharton School (both BS Economics). Neither has an MBA. But 2 accounting courses were required for their degrees. They would have regularly worked with balance sheets, income statements and cash flow statements in managing a closely held multibillion dollar real estate development business. It's a civil case, so Jr stating he didn't understand what he was signing regarding Trump Organization financial statements might sound endearing to the typical layman, but it does not get him off the hook in a bench trial about the Trump financials.
Donald Trump father and son received undergraduate degrees from UPenn Wharton School (both BS Economics). Neither has an MBA. But 2 accounting courses were required for their degrees. They would have regularly worked with balance sheets, income statements and cash flow statements in managing a closely held multibillion dollar real estate development business. It's a civil case, so Jr stating he didn't understand what he was signing regarding Trump Organization financial statements might sound endearing to the typical layman, but it does not get him off the hook in a bench trial about the Trump financials.
"So frustrating for Trump haters."
The only Trump hater that matters until the appeal is the Judge who is, as he said, the sole "trier of fact" and has previously declared Trump guilty of the primary charge and then guilty of contempt based only on his feeling that Trump was not "credible." No further proof needed.
This is a revolting abuse of our judicial system.
"do the Vanity Fair folks repair their own cars?"
Not only that, they butcher their own meat.. uh, scratch that, they're all bloody vegans.
Starting over: they clear and plow their own fields, plant their own wheat, corn, beans, arugula; they plant, grow, harvest, spin, and weave their own organic cotton cloth from which they handmake all of their clothing. And on and on and on...
This points out the Lunacy of the charges...in CIVIL, not criminal court.
Lenders do their own valuing of assets used as collateral. It is an average, multiplied by a percentage.
Lenders have their loans audited by bank examiners. To make sure the bank as the required level of liquidity.
The charges are impossible to make stick. The corrupt judge can find Trump liable, but no appeals court will let it stand.
The is no crime and no injured party.
The Crack Emcee:
I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world.
We've been saying that for over a decade.
Right here on this blog even.
Welcome to that wing of the party.
Anyone who took basic accounting in college knows what GAAP is, a common set of generally accepted accounting principles, standards, and procedures. As a matter of fact, if one took high school bookkeeping you should know what GAAP is, the same high school textbook used for HS bookkeeping is the same use for the first six credit hours for an accounting major. The textbook cover is the only difference.
I've long asked those who below, "Trump's Taxes!" if they thought that on April 14 DJT sits down at a laptop and downloads TurboTax....
It is amusing being lectured by journalists, who are not experts at anything, not even journalism. These are the stupidest smart people you will ever meet.
Yes, of course a huge company has an army of accountants that handle the accounting. For goodness sake, medium-sized YouTubers have accountants. I'm sure Vanity Fair has an entire accounting department. The only people who do not use accountants are those that cannot afford it, those that that enjoy accounting, and those with simple taxes.
I have a tiny, dormant company I use when contracting. Aside from basic book-keeping, even I have no idea what dark magic my accountant conjures with dividends and allowable deductions.
Vanity Fair, conveniently relying on the First Amendment to escape liability for defamation.
I got half-way through the comments before I realized they weren't talking about Hunter Biden. Then I remembered: Hunter is "the Big Guy's" son. He's immune, and so is all his family. But "TRUMP!" we're going to dig DEEP!
Headline at the BBC:
"Donald Trump's sons defiant in New York fraud trial, try to shift blame to accountants"
I worked in Atlantic Richfield Companys legal department from 1974 to 2000. I was doing transactional matters. For tax questions I went to our tax department. We were at least a Fortune 100 and maybe a Fortune 50 company for most of that time. The IRS kept a team of agents working with and alongside our tax compliance people. It usually took somewhere between 5 and 7 years to close out a company tax year to the satisfaction of both the IRS and the company.
As for the question--do the Vanity Fair writers fix their own cars? I doubt that they are smart enough to fix a kid's tricycle.
Decades ago, I had an accountant explain the complexities involved in passing new tax legislation. He said after the TV cameras leave the congresscritters get phone calls from their CPAs telling them how the new language f*cks up their portfolios. Later on the aggregate changes needed are amended quietly and the bill gets put up. Seems plausible to me.
I agree with Crack that the worldwide media is nefarious but he may want to consider the role of the defense contractors (mega sharks) and their symbiotes (politicians, financiers, sociopathic billionaires, etc.) as a major component of civilizational decline. The pharmaceutical hustlers who emerged during the Covid scare are pikers compared to Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, etc. It's a great business model. Make a product, sell at high cost, buyer destroys product intentionally, buyer celebrates, demands more product at even higher cost. Lordy, lordy...
I learned about GAAP when I took tax law in law school. What I learned was that, as a lawyer, you need to leave it to the accountants.
Also that I was not cut out to be a tax lawyer.
So is the State of New York now going to "civilly prosecute" the accounting firms?
Of course not. The blowback would be so hard and so fast that the prosecutors would be disbarred. The accounting, banking and real estate industries would cease all political donations to Democrats, and/or would abandon NYC for Houston or Vegas or somewhere where reason still prevails.
This is a purely political prosecution of one person, and one person only. I am sure that message has been quietly conveyed to the accounting, banking and real estate interests. Who remain quiet.
My husband is a CFO of a $2.5bn entity. His MBA was in finance, not accounting. Once, he was interacting with an accounting-style CFO, who expressed shock that he could do that job without being an accountant - in particular a CPA. (We figure he didn't get out much.)
My husband said 2 things to him: 1. It depends on the type of organization you're running, and 2. That's what a controller is for. Plus you then have internal and external auditors, and if your controller and accounting staff come across something even they don't know how to handle (because, another point, corporate accounting is NOT plug-and-chug - there are many decisions to be made about how things are accounted for), they hire an accounting firm as a contractor to help.
There is no way the boss does, or fully understands, the accounting when the organization is this large.
This and the Bill Clinton phrase, "I really don't recall." should be standard fare for all conservatives. Fuck the system!!
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world.
11/2/23, 12:54 PM
I call the media "The Mushroom Media Conspiracy." They lie to their readers/viewers and keep them in the dark about stories that harm the Democrat Party.
Also, "honest journalist" is an oxymoron. An honest journalist is as rare as a Do Do.
Blogger wild chicken said...
Per reddit he supposedly should know GAAP because of an accounting degree but he was an econ major like Sr.
Econ majors do not sully their hands with the nitty gritty of Accounting 101.
Boring!
11/2/23, 12:29 PM
———————
In my ideal world basic financial accounting would be mandatory for anyone seeking a 4 year degree.
Decades ago daughter and I were participating in the local YMCA "Indian Princess" father/daughter program. Bunch of dads were socializing after one activity. It's tax time and one of the dads, CFO of a mid-size manufacturing outfit, is complaining about receiving a "1099" based on monies paid to him for a short-term rental (this is way before AirBnB).
Me, a mid-level IT guy with only peripheral involvement in my employer's Accounts Payable application. Still, I knew enough to tell him that the company that rented from him had no choice and explained the Reporting Requirements, as I understood them. The "C F O" says, "Oh."
I am dealing with estate matters now unfortunately.
I do not do my own valuations for taxes, etc. and have no idea what forms to fill out.
I leave that to my very expensive lawyers and assume they know what they're doing.
This is all just TV DRAMA, this trial is all about how much trump will have to pay, I am wagering it will be at least $200,000,000.00 out of the $250 mill ask.Tune in right after Christmas and final number will be revealed.All the armchairs lawyers will chatter on and on but only ONE guy that matters in this issue and he's pounding his fist on the table and given out gag fines.Say what you want it is what it is.That group of people should feel blessed they live in America where at least they can state their case,try that in Russia or China or any authoritarian ruled country,lot of open window accidents over there.There is no doubt,none ,that this is about HOW MUCH not did you do it.
Now do the Biden family taxes.
No?
I’m so old I remember when it was OK for a woman not to know what a woman is.
The Crack Emcee said...
I'm slowly coming around to the conclusion that the media is probably the most nefarious entity we have working in this country, and maybe the world.
And never more so than when they support the heinous atrocities of Hamas and the Palestinians on October 7th.
how come so far nobody brought up public traded companies? which Trump Org is not!
but they do have creditors and other parties
What Is GAAP?
GAAP is a set of detailed accounting guidelines and standards meant to ensure publicly traded U.S. companies are compiling and reporting clear and consistent financial information. Any company following GAAP procedures will produce a financial report comparable to other companies in the same industry. This provides investors, creditors and other interested parties an efficient way to investigate and evaluate a company or organization on a financial level. Under GAAP, even specific details such as tax preparation and asset or liability declarations are reported in a standardized manner.
"It's tax time and one of the dads, CFO of a mid-size manufacturing outfit, is complaining about receiving a "1099" based on monies paid to him for a short-term rental (this is way before AirBnB)."
I used to participate on a hobby related message board. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth when it was announced eBay was sending out 1099s.
if 290 out of 300 million population know diddly squat about GAAP is it still GENERALLY ACCEPTED?
A fraud trial where Trump didn't actually defraud anyone.
Biden defrauded the US tax payer while he was Obama's VP. Money Laundering thru Ukraine and China.
Media and leftist Stalinist courts uninterested.
What no CPA MBA MST CFA has ever learned is the ‘objective valuation method’ the judge used to justify the case proceeding…
Wharton undergruate BS in accounting (the only degree the 2 Donnies received from UPenn) requires 2 accounting courses. Naturally. JR may have given the obvious answer, but that does not mean he was telling the truth. Or even that the evasion will work in a civil trial when he did not delegate signing off on false financial statements, but signed himself. As top executive in a multibillion dollar real estate development company.
"It's a civil case, so Jr stating he didn't understand what he was signing regarding Trump Organization financial statements might sound endearing to the typical layman, but it does not get him off the hook in a bench trial about the Trump financials."
Readering is making an important point here: in civil cases, your rights are reduced considerably. For example, if you cannot afford an attorney in a civil case, one will not be appointed for you because it is not a criminal matter.
This is a way for government to get around rights you would have otherwise.
readering said... @ 3:40
You wouldn't know a balance sheet from a shopping list.
You're running a business every day. Your quarterly report comes out and as long as the bottom figure on the last page reads in the black the report goes in the file. If there's a glitch you go over the report with your CPA. Which you are not. A CPA. The glitches are why you have a CPA. Which you are not. A CPA.
Trump received a BS in economics (not accounting) from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968. I have an MBA and took exactly one course in accounting. My niece has a degree in accounting and had to study her ass off before taking the CPA exam, which she passed.
JR didn't go to law school either, but he can still be liable under civil statutes for the fraudulent financials of the closely held business he ran. I didn't major in economics or accounting, but it would be malpractice practicing commercial litigation if I didn't know the balance sheets, income statements and cash flow statements I read all the time from the shipping lists I have never bothered to write down.
Ah, the good ol' Sgt Schultz 'I know nothing' defense.
Mark said...
Ah, the good ol' Sgt Schultz 'I know nothing' defense.
Should be familiar to you.
readering said...
"JR didn't go to law school either, but he can still be liable under civil statutes for the fraudulent financials of the closely held business he ran. I didn't major in economics or accounting, but it would be malpractice practicing commercial litigation if I didn't know the balance sheets, income statements and cash flow statements I read all the time from the shipping lists I have never bothered to write down."
That is why, in a civil litigation, you don't take the stand. Your CPA takes the stand. In Trumps case many CPAs. You seem to think that cheating is easy. You are wrong.
In civil litigation you have no choice whether to testify if the other side wants you, unless you invoke the 5th Amendment, which the Trumps did initially, but did not persist. The Trumps are being called by the State. Fairly standard in a civil case for the plaintiff to call the defendants to testify. And related persons, such as in this case Ivanka, who is not having much success challenging her trial subpoena.
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