October 19, 2023
"Video shows rocket fired from Gaza make sharp turn back before blast seen at hospital."
"Video from Al Jazeera appears to show a rocket fired from Gaza make a sudden turn moments before a deadly blast was seen at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza" (CNN)(video at link).
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126 comments:
The key evidence is the puny crater. Israeli munitions leave a gigantic hole. This left an ordinary pothole.
Hamas hide their military installations inside of hospitals, schools, and other various human shield situations.
Too late. The lie had already shot across the Islamist world before truth got its pants on.
Her... his... it's choice. Do rockets possess freewill?
"Everybody got God on their side of the war. Trouble is, God ain't tellin' nobody who he's fo'."
- Little Onion, from THE GOOD LORD BIRD (AKA The Story Of John Brown) starring Ethan Hawke, which - if you haven't seen it - I highly recommend.
I get so tired of this superficial analysis. The bomb that killed 400 people at the Hospital parking lot was an AIR BURST with an estimated 400-500 lbs explosive. Israel has that kind of bomb. Do to arabs in Gaza?
So news media and x-burts, tell us what kind of missiles does Hamas have. I want to know what kind of Hamas rocket would kill 500 people and also want to see proof that Hamas has this kind of rocket and big warhead. Instead we get spergy nonsense with people disecting videos.
Israel has been bombing Gaza for days, 4000 tons (thats 16000 bombs at 500 lbs each) and has killed an estimated 2500 people. It's make perfect sense for one of their bombs to hit the Hospital grounds. How many rockets has Hamas fired at Israel from Gaza? 1? 10? 60? Give us the number. Any rocket with a huge 400 lbs warhead would be big and not some shoulder fired weapon.
It'd make sense that one out 16000 israeli bombs would hit the Hospital. It makes no sense that 1 out of 10 Hamas rockets fired (theoritical number), would misfire and hit the worst possible place. Thats why i want to know what type of rockets they have and how many have been fired. the israeli know the number.
Instead people give us this dumb "Hey, there's a flash of light in the upper hand corner of the video".
Biden said Hamas needs to learn to shoot straight.
The point of that last post was to say, whether theirs or ours, real rebels and revolutionaries are rarely the most together individuals.
That would be the blockheads.
The errant science project hit a parking lot, not the hospital.
Biden to send millions to Gaza (without our permission) - but the old crook insists funds will not land into the hands of Hamas.
LOL. what a crock.
I thought it only hit a parking lot. But Mass propaganda is what the media is paid for.
CNN:
"Video shows rocket fired from Gaza make sharp turn back before blast seen at hospital.""
Video from Al Jazeera appears to show a rocket fired from Gaza make a sudden turn moments before a deadly blast was seen at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza.
Can't just let the lead tell the truth, can they?
I've watched the video - ain't no "appears".
WaPo still is running with their initial reporting. It's gotten a little more mealy mouthed, but nowhere near an honest attempt at reporting. It is important to understand who these people (meaning the liberal media) are.
It'd make sense that one out 16000 israeli bombs would hit the Hospital. It makes no sense that 1 out of 10 Hamas rockets fired (theoritical number), would misfire and hit the worst possible place. Thats why i want to know what type of rockets they have and how many have been fired. the israeli know the number.
You and I have entirely different views of "what makes sense." Too bad.
And yet Rashida Tlaib made the declarative statement at yesterday's pro-Palestine protest the Israel bombed the hospital. Protestors stormed the Capitol.
Nobody will be held as a political prisoner or receive ridiculous jail sentences.
Biden was a disaster yesterday in Israel. That Airforce one "press conference" was creepy.
Yesterday was a bad day for the United States.
“And look, I’m not suggesting that Hamas deliberately did it. It’s that old thing: Gotta learn how to shoot straight,” Biden added.
Yeah. "Rocket control" means killing the civilians you're aiming at. So he's sending Hamas another billion or two to spend on target practice. Even the maggots eating his brains can't stand him.
Too late. The lie had already shot across the Islamist world before truth got its pants on.
=========
Naked truth is best truth
Looks like an SRB failure. Was it a cold night in Gaza?
I see the resident Hamas apologist parrots the line “400 killed in the parking lot” - moving the goalposts from “hospital hit” to air burst over the parking lot and subtlety lowering the casualty list as well. But the photo of said lot shows cars damaged and a small crater - and you DON’T see the usual suspects volunteering the bomb fragments for confirmation it was those dastardly Israelis behind the deed. PalleyWood triumphs again!
More to the point - the MSM don’t do journalism anymore - they just fall over themselves to repeat lies. The NY Slimes even published a fake picture of a building damaged years ago - and never mention that the Hamas buys like to hide in school or hospital basements.
Let’s just cut to the chase - the “consensus” from the left now is that Israel should suck it up because they had it coming and leave those poor Gaza folks alone - the ones dancing in the streets when their boys were slaughtering Jews.
"I get so tired of this superficial analysis. The bomb that killed 400 people at the Hospital parking lot was an AIR BURST with an estimated 400-500 lbs explosive. Israel has that kind of bomb. Do to arabs in Gaza?"
We now have photographs of the parking lot where this explosion occurred. Does it look like 400 people were killed to you?
"rhhardin said...
The key evidence is the puny crater. Israeli munitions leave a gigantic hole. This left an ordinary pothole."
cleaning this up a little. It's not who, but what. aerial bombs make big craters. a 500lb GP bomb makes a 10ft hole in most soils. a 122mm rocket or thereabouts makes an 8 in hole, like we saw in the photos. I'm not an EOD guy or a CIA BDA guy, but I've seen a hundred rocket craters, a bunch of mortars, and a dozen 500 or 1000 lb bomb craters.
that was no bomb
Lies abound and no one will be held responsible.
Talib claimed Israel bombed the hospital. The mayor of Dearborn, Abdullah Hammoud, said the same thing on Instagram and his post is still up.
These people should be excommunicated from the Democratic party, but they won't.
This suggests that the bombing of the hospital by the Gazans was deliberate, to derail any chance of Biden meeting with Arabs on this trip.
It worked.
Meade's right. It doesn't matter. In the Muslim world and on American college campuses, they will never believe anything except the Israelis intentionally bombed a Palestinian hospital.
Facts don't matter anymore, whether they are about Israel vs Hamas or about Russian collusion or about Covid vaccines or about Ukraine or about Hunter Biden or whatever subject.
Facts have lost their appeal.
"You and I have entirely different views of "what makes sense." Too bad.
Yes, it is too bad. But I don't want emotion or vague statements by either side. I want facts. The problem is easy. Its binary A or B. Tell me what kind of missiles Hamas has. Tell me their warhead weight. Tell me how many "missiles" have been fired in the last 4 days.
These facts are readily available. And known to Israel. I don't need Israeli spokesmen waving their hands and saying "oh, it was a Hamas missle, case closed".
What kind of missile? They have names. They have specifications. Give them to us.
This is what happens when you get your rockets from Harbor Freight.
Its interesting that when the USA is involved, aka their own country, people sneer at "May she always be right, Our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but right or wrong, my country"
But then when its Israel, suddenly the sneers turn into "Israel we stand by you. We will stand by you no matter what. Right or Wrong, My Israel".
After 911, the liberals/Leftist were agahst at all the caveman "Lets kill all them towelheads". Woah there. Lets not give into hate, and blame all Muslims, they cried. Now, these same people are silent. And if Israel commits warcrimes in Gaza or starts to ethnically cleanse them, they will keep being silent.
Some of them in fact, have flipped completely. it seems they didn't care about "Not giving into hate" it was just the wrong sort of people were killed on 911.
Its interesting that when the USA is involved, aka their own country, people sneer at "May she always be right, Our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but right or wrong, my country"
But then when its Israel, suddenly the sneers turn into "Israel we stand by you. We will stand by you no matter what. Right or Wrong, My Israel".
After 911, the liberals/Leftist were agahst at all the caveman "Lets kill all them towelheads". Woah there. Lets not give into hate, and blame all Muslims, they cried. Now, these same people are silent. And if Israel commits warcrimes in Gaza or starts to ethnically cleanse them, they will keep being silent.
Some of them in fact, have flipped completely. it seems they didn't care about "Not giving into hate" it was just the wrong sort of people were killed on 911.
I. Don’t. Care.
Only a few cars in the parking lot had structural damage. The others had burn damage but no broken glass. The tile roofs of adjacent buildings were undamaged. So no air burst. There may have been no explosion at all except for impact and rocket fuel burning and then gasoline from cars burning, say the warhead completely separated from the rest of the rocket and this was hit by the rest.
As to death toll, I doubt it was more than a half dozen. The damage all around is minor.
Israel has been bombing Gaza for days, 4000 tons (thats 16000 bombs at 500 lbs each)
Every part of this is wrong. Israel reported 6000 bombs, not 16000. They could weigh anywhere from 2000 to 500 lbs, if all of them were warheads and not just the practice bombs used to "roof knock" buildings. If practice bombs, they would weigh much less.
And if you think 6000 bombs is outrageous, remember you are the clowns claiming rape and murder of civilians is reasonable against colonizers. If you want an unconditional war and start it, then you don't get to demand Calvin Ball rules when the other side accepts your terms.
Also via ABCNews Timeline of events (do your own search), "Meanwhile, Hamas claims at least 5,000 rockets were fired, all landing in southern and central Israel." Apparently not all, but the attempt is what matters. Don't like getting hit, quit throwing the first punch. It was a musical festival supporting your side, and you supported the massacre of anyone that was there. It was intentional. There was no mistake. There has been no apology. You'll receive equal sympathy.
That was cold AND mean, Rusty @11:07AM!
Old news. Try to keep up.
rcocean said...
"I get so tired of this superficial analysis. The bomb that killed 400 people at the Hospital parking lot was an AIR BURST"
First, where is the proof that any explosion killed 400 people in the hospital? Conveniently Hamas reported 500 immediately after the blast, an amazing feat in all the confusion. Of course, first reports that it was a JDAMs until the pictures were inconsistent with the that type of blast at which time the air burst theory claim. Plenty of analysis to show that this is also unlikely but I'm sure if I reposted that here rcocean will move the goalpost again.
It appears that Hamas has what Obama would call a "JV team". The rocket was supposedly fired by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The PIJ can't shoot straight-and supposedly launched the rocket from a cemetery. No "secondary explosion" from "explosives hidden in the hospital".
It's a propaganda war, and this accident (don't let the JV team fire rockets) burned up cars in the parking lot, no doubt killed a lot of people (but not 500) has to be counted a Hamas victory. Blundering Biden was planning to attend an Arab summit with leaders from other Middle Eastern nations. They all cancelled after the "500 people killed in hospital blast" story hit the news.
OTOH since I can't see that anything Joe might do that could possibly go right in such an Arab summit (Obama again--never underestimate Joe's ability to [mess] things up) perhaps it was all for the best.
I agree with rcocean. Until we get the serial number on the missile and the store receipt that shows when Hamas bought it, assume the Jews did it.
rcocean, I'm not sure what you point is. We have pictures of the impact area. The hospital is still standing. It has a few broken windows and some minor external damage, but is otherwise no worse for wear. We have a picture of the crater, which is the size of a pothole. The only evidence that we have that the Israelis bombed the hospital and killed hundreds is the word of Hamas, a mass murdering, terrorist, pro-genocide organization. They announced the body count within minutes of impact, when it would have been literally impossible to count the bodies that quickly. Furthermore, Hamas is long established as liars, which was only confirmed when the "demolished" hospital was found to be still standing. In addition, it is long established that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad regularly fire rockets at Israel, many if not most of these rockets being homemade, and they had literally announced on social media that they were going to fire a salvo about the time of the impact. It is also well established that these homemade rockets are of dubious quality, and a sizeable percentage of them fall short and land in Gaza somewhere.
If you want to argue the equivalent of "when did you stop beating your wife" in regard to this topic feel free, but the evidence is pretty clear at the moment.
What inspires such vile Jew hatred in you rcocean? The sure knowledge that they are largely much smarter than you are? You don't want facts. You've made up your mind despite the facts.
It definitely looks like the rocket had a motor failure in the footage I've seen. You can even see two different explosion as the warhead and rocket body separated from the motor failure. Maybe an oxidizer leak burned through the rocket if it was a liquid fueled rocket. L
I'm gonna take a wild ass guess that the hospital was hit by the rocket body and not the warhead. A fireball like that is more likely from rocket fuel than a conventional explosive.
rcocean writes, "What kind of missile? They have names. They have specifications. Give them to us."
When the interwebs seared white-hot with accusations of an Israeli bombing attack I do not recall rcocean's adamant demands for information from Hamas, but perhaps I missed it. Perhaps there are questions posed somewhere in the Althouse blog archives, something along the lines of "An aerial bomb or artillery shell? Israel has both, and Hamas knows what ordnance was involved. Give us the information." No doubt there's something to demonstrate rcocean's evenhanded skepticism, but I do not remember reading such assurance of integrity.
Rocket science is not my forte, and I'm not qualified to weigh the evidence. Here's one thing I do know with absolute certainty: the people who chose to use rape, murder, and the killing of infants as a war tactic are also capable of lying about a failed rocket and the number of casualties it produced....This war will produce a lot of innocent victims on the Palestinian side. You can claim these casualties are all the fault of the Israelis. Can't you also claim --and with somewhat more justice--the fault lies with Hamas for initiating this conflict and, moreover, guaranteeing its continuance by holding all the hostages....Biden said Israel should ponder the mistakes the USA made by indulging its anger after 9/11. It would perhaps be better if the Muslims ponder the mistake Saddam made by indulging his belligerence after 9/11. This war has already been lost by both sides, but the Palestinians will be the bigger losers.... And even if they should someday win, what will they win if they're governed by likes of Hamas, Isis, Saddam, Qaddaffi, Assad, the Muslim Brotherhood et al. ad inf. Most of the Muslim states are in an endless state of civil war. If they can learn to live in peace with Israel, perhaps they could then learn to live in peace with themselves.
(Obama and Joe's ability to [mess] things up >> is the goal
why so many are misreading the implication/confession admission intended
I was thinking a bit too high tech. They are probably using sugar and potassium nitrate for the rocket fuel. My idea still holds though, the rocket could have had a burn through, separated, and the part with fuel landed in the hospital parking lot.
they outright lied, just like the buried the attack on Ashkelon's hospitals, a week back
...you DON’T see the usual suspects volunteering the bomb fragments for confirmation it was those dastardly Israelis behind the deed.
Excellent point.
I’m no rocket scientist, but it looked to me like the rocket malfunctioned and exploded well above the ground. I’m not sure about the “turn back”; the horizon is out of the frame at that point and the camera seems to be zooming in and out, so you really can’t tell how the rocket was moving.
Rusty said...
This is what happens when you get your rockets from Harbor Freight.
Dude! I swear by Central Machinery. Been using it for years. Good stuff.
rocean: LOL. You're not just full of shit about Ukraine, you can be full of shit about hospital parking lots, too. Multi-talented, multi-dimensional full of shit.
Have you wondered why the hospital itself is structurally intact? How does a superficially damaged parking lot generate 400 - 500 deaths? Where are the bodies? how were they all counted within 10 minutes of the explosion? Why were the damaged cars in the parking lot burned, probably from missile fuel, but not blown to bits like they would have been if it was a bomb? Even Al Jazeera says it was a missile hit and has related film. Why would they lie? Can anyone read one of your posts without laughing?
Old and slow said...
"What inspires such vile Jew hatred in you rcocean?"
You just can't get off of this line, can you? Here's John Mearsheimer saying "public support for Israel, in the United States, has never been particularly strong" - he did not say the country is littered with flaming antisemites. So why don't you cut it out? Is it impossible for you to dial it back? Is it impossible for you to admit when you're wrong? Is it impossible for you to leave motherfuckers alone?
People like you are why there can't be serious discussions about anything.
Reminiscent of when the paper of record reported Poland invaded Germany in 1939. Their sources were Germany.
rcocean said...
"I get so tired of this superficial analysis. The bomb that killed 400 people at the Hospital parking lot was an AIR BURST with an estimated 400-500 lbs explosive."
Air bursts don't leave small ground craters.
Maybe you should leave the analysis to people who actually understand how explosives work.
To quote you: "I get so tired of this superficial analysis."
Iman said...
That was cold AND mean, Rusty @11:07AM!
I know. And I appologize.
Harbor Freight sells some pretty good stuff.
Shane Gillis can relate to war in the Middle East
They look like much larger versions of what we used to build in Jr high and launch from a local cornfield. The farmer used to chase us off with rock salt loaded shotgun shells. I don't think he was Jewish though, and we were rotten little Catholics ourselves.
Has this been covered in the NYTimes yet?
OUCH
6000 Israeli bombs on Gaza through October 12th. Its now the October 19th. And thanks for telling me that bombs come in all sizes. I never knew that. Guess if they have bombs bigger than 500 lbs., that means they couldn't have used any 500 lbs bombs. Or something.
Now maybe some one can talk about Hamas missiles. Size of warhead, etc.
I don't see anything about HAMAS rockets from Gaza hitting Israel in the last 7 days. The initial rocket barrage was 5000 and killed 1000. WHich means it took 5 HAMAS rockets to kill one person. The missile that SUPPOSEDLY hit the Hospital killed 400.
Doesn't seem like the same type missile.
What inspires such vile Jew hatred in you rcocean? The sure knowledge that they are largely much smarter than you are? You don't want facts. You've made up your mind despite the facts.
I think almost all of us agree with this sentiment. Even the "air burst bomb" expert knows his BS ain't selling here.
rcocean writes, "What kind of missile? They have names. They have specifications. Give them to us."
And he asks this as if Hamas wasn't broadcasting between 7pm and 8pm local time that they were currently bombarding with rockets the cities of Ashdod, Tel Aviv, and Haifa.
They have names and specifications! You'll get this one for free this time.
A R160 missile, also known as a Khaibar-1 which is a Syrian built 302mm unguided artillery rocket based on the Chinese M-302 design. The R160 designation is given specifically to the model that Hamas itself claims it builds and fields to attack Israel. Its warhead is designed to be anti-personnel, meaning it is used not to destroy hardened targets, but people out in the open, sort of like what a parking lot might represent. They can be fired individually or in a 6-pack MLRS configuration. The problem with fielding this type of rocket is Hamas lacks the ability to reliably cast the solid rocket fuel. This leads to problems of improper burns, similar to what can be seen in the video from Al Jazeera.
That said, indications from serious people wanting to figure out what is going on rather than spout unverified propaganda is that the rocket that landing in the parking lot was likely a Qassam rocket, which is consistent with the missiles Hamas was using to strike Ashdod and other parts of southern Israel, but nowhere near the range to hit Tel Aviv or further Haifa. Really, they don't have the range (only 16 to 20km) to hit Ashdod (25km away) either, but Hamas doesn't really care how far the rockets go in so much as they go towards Israel. Qassam are smaller and easier to build. They are also anti-personnel. They use sugar and potassium nitrate as their solid fuel propellant. That mixture burns with a color spectrum of a reddish orange, similar to what can be seen in the Al Jazeera video when the motor appears to RUD.
Tell us rocean, can you name the weapon and specifications of that air burst bomb you claim hit a hospital and killed 400 people?
Harbor Freight would probably give a refund on that one. "Broke the first time I used it!"
The doctor brain surgeons there gave interviews deploring the attack by Israel. It's not rocket science.
But then when its Israel, suddenly the sneers turn into "Israel we stand by you. We will stand by you no matter what. Right or Wrong, My Israel".
After 911, the liberals/Leftist were agahst at all the caveman "Lets kill all them towelheads". Woah there. Lets not give into hate, and blame all Muslims, they cried. Now, these same people are silent. And if Israel commits warcrimes in Gaza or starts to ethnically cleanse them, they will keep being silent.
So, you are a liberal/leftist ? Israel now has, for the first time since Eisenhower, a US administration that is hostile to it. In the 1950s, we were dependent on Muslim oil and Israel was an issue. The same was true until Trump and fracking made us once again independent of such political calculation. Even so, we supported Israel out of a moral concern.
Never in our history has an administration PURPOSELY made us weaker and dependent on hostile entities. I guess you are in favor of that. Ask Sudeten Germans what happens when you start a war and lose it.
Seems clear it was a failed launch by Hamas. What I don't understand is that the time from the midair explosions to the ground impacts is just too short.
Erin says "gravity." Right.
The following statement is false:
A Hamas fired rocket hit a hospital in Palestine and killed 500 people.
Now, it might be false for any number of reasons. Hamas might be lying about the casualty numbers of their own misfired rocket. Perhaps 500 people died through some other way and hamas figured they'd throw them in the data, using the old Covid math of 2020. Perhaps the rocket was fired by Israel like Hamas is claiming.
But what I do know is that Hamas has fired thousands of rockets at Israel over the past decades, and not a single one even when it landed roughly where it was supposed to land killed even a tenth of that number of people.
But I am supposed to believe that Hamas fired a rocket into a building and it killed 500 people. That this is the first and apparently only rocket of this caliber that Hamas has or has ever had and they own goaled this badly. Unlikely.
Israel today does not seem particularly concerned at the idea that Hamas has a rocket capable of killing 500 people. Not seeing this angle brought up, that Hamas now represents a significantly larger rocket threat once they work out the kinks.
So: The statement that Hamas misfired a rocket and that rocket killed 500 people is false.
Tactics
In conventional warfare, air bursts are used primarily against infantry in the open or unarmored targets, as the resulting fragments cover a large area but will not penetrate armor or field fortifications.
Who? The Israelis!
Where? A Hospital!
What? A Bomb, killed 500!
Gotta admit, that gets a lot more clicks for CNN and the NYT than: We aren't sure whose its was, may have been an errant Palestinian rocket, landed in a parking lot, fire from the fuel might've killed those in cars, 400, err 300 err don't really know that either.
Absent the expected Israeli army tearing through the Gaza, Hamas has got to work with what they have to stir up the world against Israel. And the usual suspects are primed to do what they're doing.
It was dark and we can’t tell exactly what happened is not a compelling story. Here’s the latestfrom Al Jazeera:
“The investigation [by Al Jazeera’s Sanad Agency] reveals that Israeli statements seem to have misinterpreted the evidence to build a story that one of the flashes recorded by several sources was a rocket misfire.
Based on a detailed review of all videos, Sanad’s analysts conclude that the flash Israel attributed to a misfire was in fact consistent with Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system intercepting a missile fired from the Gaza Strip and destroying it in mid-air.“
Misinterpreted the evidence - that’s surprisingly charitable, perhaps a tell. They also don’t quite say that the rocket they believe was intercepted caused the explosion at the hospital. It’s also telling they don’t explicitly claim in this story that there was another rocket or bomb, but you’re allowed by the story to infer that, if it suits your propaganda purposes.
“People like you are why there can't be serious discussions about anything.”
People like you should petition Hamas to release the hostages. Get your head back in the game, removed from your hindquarters.
.
"I agree with rcocean. Until we get the serial number on the missile and the store receipt that shows when Hamas bought it, assume the Jews did it."
Homemade rockets built from steel pipe rarely have serial numbers.
The Crack Emcee @ 1:23: "OUCH." Yeah, that's going to leave a mark. He's quite a shouter!
Who is he? What's his history? Who's paying him?
rcocean (10:16am) thinks it must have been an Israeli bomb that hit the hospital because they've dropped 6,000 bombs weighing 4,000 tons on Gaza and killed 2,500 people! Has he (she?) done the arithmetic? Israeli bombs are a mixture of 500lb, 1000lb, and 2000lbs, and yet it takes them an average of 2.4 of these powerful bombs to kill one person?!?! It's perfectly obvious just from those numbers that they are taking great care to minimize civilian casualties.
A single Russian Iskander missile killed 59 at a funeral in Hroza, Ukraine on October 5th. Wikipedia reports that the Iskander payload is 1,000-1,540 pounds, so some of the Israeli bombs are even bigger and could easily have killed more if aimed at crowds of civilians attending funerals, or in hospitals.
And I'm pretty sure most of those 2,500 people reported killed in Gaza are in fact armed Hamas terrorists, though Hamas pretends that everyone on their side is a civilian, and everyone in Israel - including babies and 95-year-olds - is a legitimate target for rape, torture, kidnapping, burning alive, and beheading. It's disgusting than no 'journalist' ever asks any Hamas spokesman "How many of those 2,500 are Hamas soldiers and therefore legitimate targets?" They don't ask because they know the answer will be "None!" and don't want the average westerner to know that.
'rcocean' also asks "How many rockets has Hamas fired at Israel from Gaza? 1? 10? 60?". These guesses are insanely low. Al Jazeera has a long article summing up the situation with the usual pro-Hamas slant, and they say the initial volley of rockets Hamas fired on the morning of October 11th was 5,000, though the Israelis say it was 2,500. And that's just the initial volley: they're still firing rockets every day, and so is Hezbollah from the other end of Israel. rcocean's estimate is off by 3-5 orders of magnitude.
If you really want to know what kind of rockets Hamas has, it's not hard to find the information: start with the Wikipedia article "Palestinian rocket arsenal", look for the ones used by Hamas, and follow the links. If you're too lazy to do that, you can't complain about "superficial analysis".
rocean: " liberals/Leftist were agahst at all the caveman "Lets kill all them towelheads". Woah there. Lets not give into hate, and blame all Muslims, they cried. Now, these same people are silent. And if Israel commits warcrimes in Gaza or starts to ethnically cleanse them, they will keep being silent."
Dude clearly hasn't been reading the papers or watching TV. The left has been blaming Israel.
"Meade's right. It doesn't matter. In the Muslim world and on American college campuses, they will never believe anything except the Israelis intentionally bombed a Palestinian hospital."
Yup. Ten years from now they still be referencing the bombing of the Christian Hospital by Israel. But the number of casualties will climb to 800.
"What inspires such vile Jew hatred in you rcocean? "
Better question. Ask him, where on the doll did Rabbi Shlomo touch you?
"The Crack Emcee said...
OUCH"
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
A long thread to help some of you get a grasp of what's what.
The deepest insight for understanding...
Where's the headline on how many Hamas killed?
Left Bank of the Charles (2:20pm):
Al Jazeera is lying when they say it was a Hamas missile knocked down by Iron Dome. Iron Dome doesn't aim at missiles in their launch phase. It waits until they're in mid-flight, and ignores the ones that are heading for unpopulated areas, aiming to shoot down the ones that will kill or damage property if not shot down. The rocket that hit the hospital parking lot was launched a minute or so before: I don't think Iron Dome or any other Israeli weapon could have reacted fast enough to knock it down that quickly.
As for the 500 - now 471 - dead at the hospital, that is the usual bald-faced Hamas lie. Latest estimates I've seen on Twitter are 10-50. It does seem likely that a parking lot full of cars is going to have at least a few people walking around, or sitting/lying inside the cars, so that seems reasonable. You can see in the pictures that one car was totally crushed, two others totally burned, and a couple of dozen others damaged. Again, a 500-pound or larger bomb would have done a lot more damage. The crater would have been way bigger than a pothole. The fact is that whoever died there died from Hamas incompetence, with no help at all from Israel.
"The missile that SUPPOSEDLY hit the Hospital killed 400."
You just won't give up on the 400 killed, will you?
The record was corrected quickly
Name something Trump will never have
may not be an elegant argument
facing prison it's all we got
#TrumpChallenge
So, you are a liberal/leftist ? Israel now has, for the first time since Eisenhower, a US administration that is hostile to it. In the 1950s, we were dependent on Muslim oil and Israel was an issue. The same was true until Trump and fracking made us once again independent of such political calculation. Even so, we supported Israel out of a moral concern.
Never in our history has an administration PURPOSELY made us weaker and dependent on hostile entities. I guess you are in favor of that. Ask Sudeten Germans what happens when you start a war and lose it.
Sorry Dr K, you're losing me. How does pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti-american left mean I'm a leftist. And how does not supporting Israel in every Goddamn thing they do, make me a leftist?
You're right that Biden is running the most anti-American Adminstration ever. The Biden administration is flooding the country with illegal aliens, they refuse to secure our southern border, they refuse to enforce the immigration laws, and they have made us energy dependent on foreign oil production.
Biden and his gang cheered the "peaceful Protests" of BLM/Antifa and put J6 protesters in jail for stealing Nancy's gavel and walking near the Captial. Ashli Babbitt death was applauded, Biden is still weeping fake tears for G. Floyd.
The Biden and DoJ are acting like lawless thugs and have disregarded the rule of law and every norm and tradition. They refuse to do anything about the rising Crime problem, and use race at every opportunity to divide us and pit american against american.
Invite the world invade the world that's Joe Biden's motto. He goes to Israel and shows more respect more for the Israeli flag, then our flag. He pours billions into Ukraine to keep a useless war going, and he cares more about deaths in Southern Israel than Maui. He's a fucking UnAmerican killer-clown.
Last thing. People need to stop loving war and thinking every problem in the world is our problem. And that we have unlimited amounts of money and soldiers. THe 90s were 30 years ago. Russia and China have interests that must be taken into account. Time for more realism and less moralism.
According to this commentator, this very same hospital was hit by Israel on Saturday, and 22 other hospitals have been hit since the Hamas attack.
When told this was the reason for the previous inaccurate reports, about Israel hitting the hospital, Piers Morgan ignored all that and just bored-in with but you-got-this-one-wrong.
That Piers hadn't even started to reporting any of the previous hits this commenter outlined is very sad and totally escapes him.
According to this commentator, this very same hospital was hit by Israel on Saturday, and 22 other hospitals have been hit since the Hamas attack.
When told this was the reason for the previous inaccurate reports, about Israel hitting the hospital, Piers Morgan ignored all that and just bored-in with but you-got-this-one-wrong.
That Piers hadn't even started to reporting any of the previous hits this commenter outlined is very sad and totally escapes him.
'rcocean' also asks "How many rockets has Hamas fired at Israel from Gaza? 1? 10? 60?". These guesses are insanely low. Al Jazeera has a long article summing up the situation with the usual pro-Hamas slant, and they say the initial volley of rockets Hamas fired on the morning of October 11th was 5,000, though the Israelis say it was 2,500. And that's just the initial volley: they're still firing rockets every day, and so is Hezbollah from the other end of Israel. rcocean's estimate is off by 3-5 orders of magnitude.
I agree with this. Hamas claims they fired 5000 rockets, but that would be nearly twice as many as if has ever done in any given year. So I suspect that number is lower, but 60 is also a bit low too. After all, the claim of the initial attack by Hamas on Israel is that they overwhelmed Iron Dome with thousands of missiles volleyed at once. It wouldn't have taken thousands, but it would take a bit more than 10.
The statement that Hamas misfired a rocket and that rocket killed 500 people is false.
I also agree with this. What were all these people doing at that hospital? The building has a 400 sq ft base (padding high on this) and is two stories tall. 500, or even 400 people, were in that size of a structure or sprawling into the adjacent 300 sq ft parking lot? Bullshit. And the "air burst" explosion only took out 2 solar panels? F'off with your bullshit.
I'd judge the report at about 50% BS content, the rocket didn't hit the hospital, and the casualties are unlikely to be in the many hundreds. That's darn good for CNN.
I get so tired of this superficial analysis.
And I get so tired of your fucking bullshit. Go somewhere else with your Jew Hate.
Matt Taibi lets the NYT have it:
"America’s paper of record had a rough week. In a flub that ensnared numerous “authoritative” news sources, the New York Times jumped the gun on the Ahli Arab Hospital disaster in Gaza City, going early with the headline:
Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say
When reports surfaced that the explosion that reportedly killed 500 was a misfire of a Palestinian rocket, the paper made quick changes. The next headline read, “At Least 500 Dead in Strike on Gaza Hospital, Palestinians Say,” removing the “Israeli” part of the mistake. The one after that read “At Least 500 Dead in Blast at Gaza Hospital,” removing the second, “strike” portion of the error.
The paper then printed a classic Timesian think piece, “After Hospital Blast, Headlines Shift With Changing Claims,” which rolled out J-school profs and other authorities to explain the “difficulty” of reporting in fraught environments. As podcast partner Walter Kirn pointed out, the money quote read:
A Times spokesman said, “We report what we know as we learn it.”
The Times obviously never “knew” Israel bombed the hospital, because that never happened. This is similar to the pronouncements of officials like Anthony Fauci about Covid-19 during the pandemic. Fauci explained early misstatements by saying things like, “When you talk to the public… you will have to change as new data and new evidence come out.” But that isn’t what happened, in most cases. Often, Fauci and others simply got things wrong even when they had correct facts available in the moment, but pliant media let them get away later with blaming “new evidence.”"
Here's a video from a guy who's been documenting the lies that Israel tells. Including about several previous deadly misfires that they've committed.
"A single Russian Iskander missile killed 59 at a funeral in Hroza, Ukraine on October 5th."
From Twitter: Traitors that slaughtered 60 of their fellow villagers by giving the coordinates of Hroza, Kharkiv, funeral cafe site to 🇷🇺 Nazis
What should be the appropriate punishment for treason?
I don't know, but that's Ukrainian twitter, and it looks like somebody spilled that the place was packed with soldiers. Soldiers are targets, at all. times. I doubt the Russians would have wasted an Iksander unless there were high value officers among them. That barracks that got hit with hundreds of Russia soldiers killed, who were nowhere near combat? Neither was a war crime.
"Lies abound and no one will be held responsible."
Lies abound on all sides in every war, and no one is ever held responsible but the loser(s).
Misinterpreted the evidence - that’s surprisingly charitable, perhaps a tell. They also don’t quite say that the rocket they believe was intercepted caused the explosion at the hospital. It’s also telling they don’t explicitly claim in this story that there was another rocket or bomb, but you’re allowed by the story to infer that, if it suits your propaganda purposes.
Left bank seems to be a fan of Pallywood. Which explosion at what hospital ?
But the number of casualties will climb to 800.
===
many refugee will recall surviving and get WH visits / congressional gallery seats
Do the iron dome rockets have fiery exhaust? Didn't see another rocket.
The trajectory changed with an increase in the exhaust fire diameter a second before it exploded. Looked like a SRB malfunction.
Homemade rockets built from steel pipe rarely have serial numbers.
============
figer prints ? gotcha
theyve been pushing that al durrah lie, for nearly a quarter century,
Did anyone see if the rocket said ACME on the side?
Hasan Piker, socialist member of The Young Turks and nephew of Cenk Uygur, claimed this very same hospital was hit by Israel on Saturday, and 22 other hospitals have been hit since the Hamas attack.
FIFY
Piers Morgan ignored all that and just bored-in with but you-got-this-one-wrong.
As he should when a person lies to his face. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus
@rcocean: How many baby heads can fit on the head of a pin?
"Is it impossible for you to admit when you're wrong? Is it impossible for you to leave motherfuckers alone?"
This from the guy who posts 50 times a day that we are all vile racists who also have also responsible for and have abjectly failed to remove the pernicious influence of the "New Age" from his life. And who is not willing to recognize that the claim that Israel dropped a bomb on a hospital that killed 500 people is...wrong. Or that a carefully planned attack on a peace rally to murder, rape, burn, torture and take hostages of innocent civilians might justify a somewhat disproportionate response from those affected.
This motherfucker wishes you would leave us alone, Crack.
And here's 'tim in vermont' (4:21pm) repeating bald-faced lies from Russian propaganda. The Hroza funeral was not a military funeral: none of the corpses scattered around the place were in uniform, and most of them were visibly middle-aged or older, or children. Whole families were wiped out, and one-fifth of the population of the town died. As far as I can tell, there were only two soldiers in the room, and one of them was the dead man, the other his son, who organized the funeral, and was killed along with his wife, his wife's mother, and (I think) his grandmother, the dead man's mother. Does 'tim' have any evidence at all that there were more soldiers there? Or that there were any high-ranking officers? Or that there was anyone there except friends, relatives, and neighbors of the dead man?
And no, the funeral of a soldier is not a legitimate target in war, even if a few off-duty soldiers attend. How could anyone think it was?
Of course, the idea that Russians wouldn't want to waste a valuable Iskander on a civilian funeral is stupid. Russian TV propaganda openly boasts about wanting to destroy Ukraine as a nation and a culture, and being willing to kill as many millions as it takes to do it. They glory in slaughtering civilians, and Russian drones, missiles, and bombs hit civilian targets every night. Sometimes they only kill a few, sometimes they get lucky and kill dozens with one strike. And 'tim' supports them.
Finally, note that 'tim' evades the whole point of my mention of Hroza. If one 1000-pound warhead can kill 59 people inside a concrete building, then Israel must be taking enormous care to avoid unnecessary casualties if they're dropped 6,000 bombs and only killed 2,500 people.
A Hamas fired rocket hit a hospital in Palestine and killed 500 people.
What is false? You have 4 facts
Hamas
Fired rocket
Hit hospital
killed 500
Your statement is overbroad to understand what you are trying say. But because of the ambiguity, it is impossible to ever say YOU were wrong.
I see the usual terrorist symps are self-identifying in this thread too
The Mushroom Media Conspiracy took the word of a terrorist organization to condemn Israel. Hamas said there were 500-deaths and Israel was responsible. They didn't review any video, didn't ask Israel about where its planes were. Many of them continue with the Big Lie.
Progressives are fascists. Only the progressive worldview is valid, all other opinions must be suppressed, with shout-downs and violence. Progressives are also antisemites and can't wait to fire up the ovens again. We have a world for that: Nazi.
How would military judge the "rocket"?
https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/using-idc-203-to-evaluate-the-al
Bob Boyd said...
“Meade's right.“
Now far be it from me to try and school all you fine intelligent clever commenters on how to write the perfect comment but… well…
Blogger Rabel said...
Seems clear it was a failed launch by Hamas. What I don't understand is that the time from the midair explosions to the ground impacts is just too short.
There were two explosions, one in the air and one on or near the ground. It may be possible that the first explosion was a malfunction with the propellant, the actual rocket part of the rocket. This first explosion may have propelled the ordinance of the rocket towards the ground at faster than base free falling speeds. When the ordinance hit the ground then the second explosion occurred.
3:05 Temujin
Excellent.
Prof. Martin van Creveld at "As I Please" has posted today--his first substantive one since 7 October. Always worth reading.
If Israel is responsible, should it not get credit for targeting the parking lot rather than the hospital itself?
I've seen a bunch of pics and videos. Where's the one showing the bombed out hospital with hundreds of dead people in it.
"Lies abound on all sides in every war, and no one is ever held responsible but the loser(s)."
Yet another chestnut from Robert Cook. Israel has won all the wars and gets all the blame.
Mike of Snoqualmie said...
The Mushroom Media Conspiracy took the word of a terrorist organization to condemn Israel. Hamas said there were 500-deaths and Israel was responsible
well, according to rcocean..
EVERY THING, and ANY THING told by the Israelis is. by definition: FALSE!
and,
EVERY THING, and ANY THING told by Hamas is; by definition: TRUE!
So, when Hamas said 5 minutes after the fire, that the Hospital was Destroyed, and 500 dead..
And then Later, Hamas said that the Parking Lot was bombed, and 400 dead..
According to rcocean, The Hospital AND parking lot were destroyed; and there are NINE Hundred dead.
And then (typical lying cheating JEWS!) the Israelis stunk in, and rebuilt the Hospital
(and restored about 900 people back to life)
Which JUST GOES TO SHOW, how you can NEVER Trust the Israelis, because they're willing to violate laws of physics Just to avoid their justified blame
Do i have that Right, rcocean? That, in YOUR reality;
The JEWS are So Evil that they rebuilt the hospital JUST to make you look like a crazy person?
Please let us know if i'm missing any of your argument?
Presumably, it has something about strawberries in it?
Came by to tell that Jew-hating idiot rcocean that an air burst munition wouldn't put a crater in a parking lot, and that yes, Hamas rockets routinely fall short, and do so in large numbers.
But I see someone beat me to it.
I'll also note that Crack Emcee citing John Mearsheimer of all people when getting called out on his Jew hatred is particularly precious.
A lot of these toxic, poisonous scumbags are outing themselves, though.
Jason said...
"I'll also note that Crack Emcee citing John Mearsheimer of all people when getting called out on his Jew hatred is particularly precious.
A lot of these toxic, poisonous scumbags are outing themselves, though."
Watching how quickly some Americans will abandon American values - because a war has started by combatants, we don't even know, overseas - is fascinating. And people notice:
"I unconditionally condemn the Hamas attack on Israelis close to the Gaza border, without any 'ifs' or 'buts,' and I give Israel the right to defend itself, and destroy the threat. However, I notice a strange thing: The moment one mentions the need to analyze the complex background of the situation, one is, as a rule, accused of supporting or justifying Hamas terrorism."
"As a rule"? In other words, anyone who mentions the beginning of this conflict - meaning who started it and how did they do it - will immediately be called "Jew haters" and "toxic, poisonous scumbags", no matter what their background or life experience. By assholes. Assholes who don't want to concede there are differing opinions or that anyone has the right to think. Just like the Nazis didn't. And the Nazis were the ultimate NewAgers.
Fuck all y'all. But especially you, Jason: fuck you personally. You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me, to be talking about I hate Jews. Fuck you. I've spent more time with Jews than you probably have, unless you're Jewish. And, while I've never known a person from Gaza, or a Palestinian, I still have enough sense, and decency, to know they're human beings, too. Fuck you. Go lose your fucking head on someone else.
Everybody on here who's talking about "Jew Hate" is a liar, and I won't forget it.
“Al Jazeera is lying when they say it was a Hamas missile knocked down by Iron Dome.”
Al Jazeera didn’t actually say that. If you look at their story closely, they’re only saying that the rocket Israel says misfired was instead knocked down by Iron Dome. They also say it was completely destroyed in the sky. This is the sophisticated version of the grassy knoll story.
The Crack Emcee said...
"Everybody on here who's talking about "Jew Hate" is a liar, and I won't forget it."
I'll lock my doors.
Gee, how about that.
Blogger Quaestor said...
"Lies abound on all sides in every war, and no one is ever held responsible but the loser(s)."
Yet another chestnut from Robert Cook. Israel has won all the wars and gets all the blame.
If Cook were honest he would note that Israel has won all the wars because it still exists. Easy way to tell.
@ William 12:08 pm
I fear your conclusion may be optimistic but I would sure love to see it. Great comment.
I was going to give Meade a pat on the back, but he beat me to it.
The rocket did make a turn. Every time a fast moving rocket turns could be referred to as a "sudden turn", but this one is not necessarily a SHARP turn.
The Crack Emcee.
Everybody on here who's talking about "Jew Hate" is a liar, and I won't forget it.
So the crowd in Sydney shouting "Gas the Jews" only had Jews' best interests at heart? Good to know. Maybe they meant laughing gas.
But, you know, you're right. "Jew Hate" is the wrong term. It should be "Judenhass." As someone once said about one of Pat Buchanan's speeches (milder by far than yours or rcocean's, btw), it sounds better in the original German.
I've spent more time with Jews than you probably have
The religious equivalent of "I have lots of black friends"?
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