From "What Was Hamas Thinking? One of the group’s senior political leaders explains its strategy" (The New Yorker).
"He" = Mousa Abu Marzouk, a senior political leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas.
The column ends with a quote from Marzouk, which he made 25 years ago when he was a prisoner at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in NYC: “If you read history, you know that violence only breeds violence: imposing your will through muscle, through force, is no solution.... you’ve got to compromise; you’ve got to understand each other. If you use muscle alone, perhaps you’re a temporary winner, but in the long run you are a loser.”
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98 comments:
A wicked Choice.
Middle eastern Arab’s motives are simple. They parley the Muzzies gut hatred of all Jews with the plot of “ The Mouse That Roared”. They Declare war on the USA and lose thus becoming super rich from American desire to show off generosity.
"If committing this attack had been suicidal for Hamas, why weren’t Netanyahu and President Joe Biden celebrating?
Netanyahu isn't celebrating because he's fighting a war against Joe Biden and the Democrat Party. You see Democrats all across the nation, literally getting themselves fired from their jobs over their rejoiceful support of a fking terrorist organization. That's how committed that Democrats are to running the next Holocaust against the Jews. They hate Jews. More than they hate black people.
Joe Biden is FUNDING the war against Jews. He's laundering money through Iran directly to a terrorist organization and also giving $200 million a year of OUR F*CKING TAX DOLLARS to Hamas ... they are literally Palestine's al Qaeda.
President Joe Biden is a F*CKING MENACE to World Peace and Israel needs to deal with terrorism's biggest donor. Or they will be once again writing history books about Jews being eradicated.
It's repulsive to me to see a bunch of actual Jewish people in his cabinet. They should be ASHAMED of themselves and should be KICKED OUT of their Synagogues into the streets like dogs.
Palestinians teach their children to hate.
None of this will end until that ends.
"forced to live in a cage"
The "cage" only exists because Arabs wanted to wipe out Israel before and lost a war, taking Gaza out of Egypt, which keeps its cage door shut pretty tight.
Israel left the "cage" to manage itself long ago. First thing the encaged did was to smash the nice things Israel had left behind. Then, instead of being good neighbors, they elected Hamas to power and started firing rockets and building tunnels. Billions of dollars were spent on turning the cage into an armed camp. Meanwhile, Israel kept supplying them with water and power.
The "cage" could have been Denmark. But the Palis would rather exterminate the Jews. Now a mere cage won't suffice to repel them.
FTR the only way the USA can dump the Persian Big Con is to become energy dominant. Trump had us there, so Biden and Obama’s boss immediately cut our throat on that….Global Warming you know.
Geopolitical expert Peter Zeihan (no friend of Hamas) said the same thing: what would you be willing to do if - Because of Zionists - the highest aspiration anyone like you could ever hope to achieve is to be the mayor of an open air prison?
I stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
"Palestinians teach their children to hate."
I have heard Jews educated in Hebrew schools say they do the same thing to their kids.
"What would we do if we were forced to live in a cage?"
This is what Gad Saad was talking about on X:
"Having written The Parasitic Mind, you would think that I could never be surprised by human irrationality and duplicity. Yet, I stand before you baffled by a new phenomenon that I call Amnesia of Causality (AOC), and in some cases from fellow academics (some of whom I know personally). The cognitive/emotional distortion works as follows: A commits horrifying acts on B. B punches back. Sufferers of AOC deeply condemn the brutality of B because the first link of the causal chain is completely erased. It never existed. What A did never happened. Only B's response is open to scrutiny. Never mind the issue of supposed proportionality. A on B never happened. B on A is proof of B's evil."
"If the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be peace. If Israelis lay down their arms, there will be no Israel." Factual assertion by some famous Israeli.
My guess is that the attack is designed to draw Israel into a major operation in Gaza, weakening its northern border for an attack from Hezbollah. Part of the reason may be to try and force the US to make concessions to Iran in order to convince it to pull Hezbollah's forces back.
All half truths and lies. Israel has repeatedly offered land for peace which must include a formal Hamas recognition of Israel's right to exist. Hamas refused to do so. PERIOD. That is why Hamas chant "from land to sea' which means the complete elimination of Israel. It blows my mind that Palestinians would ever see their situation as the result of Israeli actions. They could have a good life if they renounced terror and extermination of Jews. The first step toward making things better is the complete elimination of Hamas, and the imposition of a government in Gaza that has no ties to terrorism.
What’s missing from this “let’s try to understand these murderous cretins” screed is the simple fact that no Arab state - save Qatar - wants anything to do with the poor Pals. Why? Because they always end up destabilizing wherever they live - Jordan ( Black September) Lebanon ( civil war). Egypt - (Muslim Brotherhood). I lived in the middle East and I can attest that it’s all lip service by the “ brothers” there - no one wants the Pals in their territories.
This is the classic “ the dog finally caught the car it was chasing” story. Except the result is going to be that puppy is going to get run over and flattened.
I was hoping, at some point, that Palestinians (sic) would separate themselves from an association with Hamas.
Unfortunately, they cheer and celebrate when Hamas performs atrocities against innocent people*. And here we are legitimizing Hamas as a representative political/military force - which they are not. If the Palastinians see it that way, then they will reap what they sow.
* of course 'they' don't see it that way, that no Israeli is 'innocent'.
Palestinians teach their children to hate.
None of this will end until that ends.
Bingo!
Not that Hamas wasn't going to keep harassing Israel anyway, but the timing and strength of this attack strongly suggests Iran coordinated this to hamper the Saudi/Israeli normalization of relations. The Palestinians are just pawns in a larger game. None of their allies give a shit about them. Most of their support in the MidEast is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Clausewitz posited that war is politics by other means. We delude ourselves with this rationalist thinking. Through most of human history, war was something young men did because it was exhilarating. War was rapine and cruelty and smashing baby's heads. You did this to other bands, whether on the plains of North America, the steppes of central Asia, or the forests of Europe. There was no strategy or strategic thinking or political objectives, certainly no laws or reciprocal agreements. Now young men arrive by motorcycle and paraglider, live-streaming everything that happens, because that is even more awesome than arriving by horse or Viking ship.
"forced to live in a cage"
Marzouk lives in Qatar.
This guy apparently was put in a cage. In NYC, which I guess is some bastion of Zionism. Channeling MadTownGuy, what did he do to get put in that cage?
Hamas was at war with Fatah until the two bank solution. The Arab factions have been at war with Jews and aborted the two state solution. Hamas is in a man-made... anthropogenic conflict of their Choice with victims and collateral damage.
This is the quality of Palestinian leadership.
Has Hamas released the hostages yet?
Gaza is a cage of Arab making. I have shown in other threads that the total Palestinian population in 1947 that were not Jews was 1.2 million. Not all of them were expelled or left. There are 1.9 million Arabas living peacefully in Israel. There are 2.4 million Arabs in Gaza alone, far more then left Israel. They COULD live on the land stolen from the 900, 000 Jews in Arab lands. the rest of the Arabs do not want the Gazans. Arabs made the cage, Israel is just trying to prevent the inmates from getting rockets to send over to Israel. The Arabs have many palatable options to resolve this issue. Why do they not use them?
I just heard a peace activist ask a good question:
Can Israel honestly say, in good faith, they are "targeting terrorists" when they are cutting off water, food, and electricity to the entire Palestinian population?
Mousa Abu Marzouk may feel that he “lives in a cage,” but he holds in his hand the key to open the door. All he has to do is announce that Israel is a legitimate nation and has a right to exist, and that you renounce violence. That’s all it takes. That’s it. Well, and he has to mean it. People who make it clear that, if allowed to be free, they would commit rape and murder, all one can do with them is lock them in cages or euthanize them. Or prepare to be murdered. People mostly don’t like being murdered, and Jews do not appear to be an exception.
I have no sympathy for Marzouk or any other Palestinian who bitches about being treated like a criminal, yet who makes it plain that he would 100% be a violent criminal if treated like an ordinary law-abiding citizen. I have slightly more sympathy for women and children living in Gaza, but many, probably most, of the women encourage their men and sons to be participants in the terror, so too bad if that results in their own deaths or the deaths of family members.
I have nothing but utter contempt for the Americans who apologize for Hamas. Lets you and the Juden fight ‘cause we hate Jews too. Yeah, eff you.
If you read history, you know that violence only breeds violence
I don't think that's what history says....
THe President of Israel just said he believes in collective punishment (a war crime) and stated the following"
Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,200 people dead.
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”
Got that. If your wife and six year old kid and 60 y/o Grandma didn't rise up against Hamas they deserved to get bombed and driven out of Gaza. Incredible!
Every oppressed people strike back, even when its dumb or even immoral. A jew upset at Nazi oppression killed the German Ambassador to France, which led to Crystal Night. The poles struck back at the Germans in August 44, even though they knew Warsaw might be leveled. And I don't think the Poles were taking many prisoners. Many DP's raped and murdered Germans after the liberation in May 45.
You can cite endless examples. This doesn't make it moral, when the striking back kills innocents, but to be suprised by it, is absurd.
Attack the specific members of Hamas who are responsible and kill them. Leave the innocent people in Gaza, 99 percent of the population alone. Ethnic cleansing and bombing civilians just leads to more hate, and more terrorism.
"The "cage" could have been Denmark. But the Palis would rather exterminate the Jews"
What is so insane about this to me is that Gaza is on the Mediterranean. The Palestinians should have been building resorts and marinas, not digging tunnels and ripping out water and sewer pipes to build rockets. But the hate is so strong with these folks, that it overrides rationality.
Good argument for capital punishment.
""Palestinians teach their children to hate."
I have heard Jews educated in Hebrew schools say they do the same thing to their kids."
This is true. Years ago, a childhood friend, who was the best man at my wedding, married a woman from Beersheba. This was back in the 80s when homelessness was becoming a big issue. I asked her, "Does Israel have a homeless problem, not counting the Palestinians?" She said no and then I asked what should be done about the Palestinians? She replied, "Kill every last one of them." I was startled by that. Hate is just a four letter word.
It is an odd question when one chooses to live in a cage, and refuses all invitations to leave.
Addendum:
A follow-up question for Crack. So who taught you to hate?
"Having written The Parasitic Mind, you would think that I could never be surprised by human irrationality and duplicity. Yet, I stand before you baffled by a new phenomenon that I call Amnesia of Causality (AOC),"
AOC. Wow! How fitting.
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"What is so insane about this to me is that Gaza is on the Mediterranean. The Palestinians should have been building resorts and marinas, not digging tunnels and ripping out water and sewer pipes to build rockets. But the hate is so strong with these folks, that it overrides rationality."
You guys are too simple-minded for international politics:
"[An open air 'concentration camp' is] the appropriate way to put it. A lot of people are calling [Gaza] an open air 'prison' but the problem with that is it implies the Palestinian civilians who live there - over two million - are prisoners. They've committed a crime. They've committed no crime. The only crime they're guilty of is being born. Born in a refugee camp. Born as a concentration, camp inmate. And it is an open air concentration camp. Israel controls this. Israel put a wall around it. Israel dictates the quality of life, the pace of life, every aspect of what goes on. Denies them the right to have their own airport, denies them the right to have their own ports. So, yeah, it is an open air 'concentration camp'. The important thing about that word is, that it's the Israelis. A Jewish nation that's imposing this concentration camp-like reality on these poor Palestinian people. The Israelis should know better. They suffered under concentration camps. They know what concentration camps are. Why they're continuing to do this, I don't understand."
- Scott Ritter, USMC
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"What is so insane about this to me is that Gaza is on the Mediterranean. The Palestinians should have been building resorts and marinas,...But the hate is so strong with these folks, that it overrides rationality."
'Hundreds of people killed in Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza with more trapped under the rubble'
Remember: the people of Gaza committed no crime. Still confused about their productivity levels?
He recommends to Israel peaceful, non-violent means of settling their conflicts. I'm not sure that's this is the ideal way to defuse the kind of tense situation that arises when someone is killing your children. I do think that the Palestinians would, in fact, gain a bargaining advantage if they used Gandhian methods as opposed to terror as a tactic.....I don't think that many Hamas people read the Althouse blog, but here are my recommendations. They should free the hostages immediately. They should retire their arms. They should claim that any further bloodshed will now be the responsibility of the Israelis....This is something like a surrender and they'll forgo the pleasure of dying and killing for their cause, but it will shift the moral burden back on the Israelis. If Israel presses their advantage, look for Biden and even Bernie Sanders to pressure the Israelis to stop the war. If Hamas truly wants to make Israel look bad and save the lives of Palestinian noncombatants, that's what they should do.....I suppose it would be a hard pill for them to swallow. Their long range goal is to have everyone live in misery until such time as they can arrange a martyr's death for themselves and their loved ones, but there will be time enough to do that in the next round.
He recommends to Israel peaceful, non-violent means of settling their conflicts. I'm not sure that's this is the ideal way to defuse the kind of tense situation that arises when someone is killing your children. I do think that the Palestinians would, in fact, gain a bargaining advantage if they used Gandhian methods as opposed to terror as a tactic.....I don't think that many Hamas people read the Althouse blog, but here are my recommendations. They should free the hostages immediately. They should retire their arms. They should claim that any further bloodshed will now be the responsibility of the Israelis....This is something like a surrender and they'll forgo the pleasure of dying and killing for their cause, but it will shift the moral burden back on the Israelis. If Israel presses their advantage, look for Biden and even Bernie Sanders to pressure the Israelis to stop the war. If Hamas truly wants to make Israel look bad and save the lives of Palestinian noncombatants, that's what they should do.....I suppose it would be a hard pill for them to swallow. Their long range goal is to have everyone live in misery until such time as they can arrange a martyr's death for themselves and their loved ones, but there will be time enough to do that in the next round.
Two-eyed Jack said...
Clausewitz posited that war is politics by other means.
========
have anyone figured out if that is
politics /domestic/ or
politics of maybe internal foreign policy disputes
Hamas is crackers.
The Palestinians should have been building resorts and marinas
=====
!!I have it on 'good authority' that Trump was negotiating for real-estate to do just that!!
IMPEACH
@Crack
Can Israel honestly say, in good faith, they are "targeting terrorists" when they are cutting off water, food, and electricity to the entire Palestinian population?
Again I'm not a military tactician but it seems logical enough to group your enemies into a small area if you are trying to seperate certain segments of them. Don't forget that Israel has declared war. While targeting civilians specifically is against the rules of war in this modern day everyone keeps thinking of "proportionality". That doesn't apply in a war situation. If you start seeing mass deaths by starvation or dehydration that could be a problem. I'm assuming there will be some sort of relief, food and water and shelter, once has concentrated the population.
how about peaceful Gazanites wear Star patches to distinguish?
@rcocean, and, who knows? Perhaps if Hamas terrorists realized that terror attacks on might result not just in their own deaths — they are prepared for martyrdom —. but the deaths of their wives, children, mothers, grandparents, girlfriends, and mistresses, then perhaps the cycle can be broken. Killing merely “specific members of Hamas who are responsible” has no chance of success.
@rcocean, and, who knows? Perhaps if Hamas terrorists realized that terror attacks on might result not just in their own deaths — they are prepared for martyrdom —. but the deaths of their wives, children, mothers, grandparents, girlfriends, and mistresses, then perhaps the cycle can be broken. Killing merely “specific members of Hamas who are responsible” has no chance of success.
Roocean- if Israel could kill hamas and not civilians don’t you think they would? You make it sound like it’s an easy thing to do. Your antisemitism comes shining through
“Can Israel honestly say, in good faith, they are "targeting terrorists" when they are cutting off water, food, and electricity to the entire Palestinian population?”
They should free the hostages and all of that will return. As they’ve been told, AND AS YOU WELL KNOW, FFS.
Shit happens when you torture, rape, and murder.
Got that. If your wife and six year old kid and 60 y/o Grandma didn't rise up against Hamas they deserved to get bombed and driven out of Gaza. Incredible!
They actually voted for them. Like the residents of blue cities shouldn't have to pay for the crime and chaos.
Crack, I'll make it simple.
Water and electricity are dual use- both civilian and military uses, just like a steel factory or gasoline refinery. Gazans have chosen to use them to make war. Against Israeli civilians. If we had control of Nazi or Japanese water supply in WWII, do you think we would have kept it flowing?
Did you ever answer my question in previous thread re whether Hamas planned their attack to coincide with the Peace Rave, or was it just a target of opportunity for them?
gaza is larger than manhattan. many people don't feel imprisoned on manhattan.
If you follow Crack's 2:27pm link to The Daily Mail, the title is no longer "Hundreds of people killed in Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza with more trapped under the rubble", it's "Israel DENIES it was responsible for blast at Gaza hospital that 'killed 500': Tel Aviv blames Islamic Jihad rocket for carnage - but Palestinian leader Abbas cancels meeting with Biden".
There is a great deal of evidence, much of it filmed, that Islamic Jihad fired a salvo of rockets at Israel and one of them fell short and hit the hospital. It's all over Twitter and you can read about it there, and argue in real time, without waiting for a host's moderation.
Buttwheatcakes wrote:
"It's repulsive to me to see a bunch of actual Jewish people in his cabinet. They should be ASHAMED of themselves and should be KICKED OUT of their Synagogues into the streets like dogs."
--------
Yes, as a good Nazi, you should blame the Jews like you always do.
By characterizing the situations as apartheid, concentration camps, diversity, mass abortion fields, social justice, the forward-looking progression is being framed to force another Spring.
Any terrorist that kills babies deserves to be put in a cage for ever.
And the 'Palestinians' have said (Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, etc..) their goal is to drive the Jews into the sea. There is no compromise when they have that kind of goal. It becomes a war of annihilation. One side dies.. or both. That is their end goal they have stated time and time again. Drive the Jews into the sea. And they are fine with killing babies or anyone else that gets in their way.
Just as our war with Japan in WW2 and USSR Russia's war with Nazi Germany in WW2. No quarter. No mercy.
And Israel must know any negotiation with them will be a sham... just another delay while they rearm for another round of mass murders.
It won't be over until one side kills the other.
Did you ever answer my question in previous thread re whether Hamas planned their attack to coincide with the Peace Rave, or was it just a target of opportunity for them?
Oh. Oh. Pick me! Hamas did NOT coincide their attack with the peace rave. They timed their attack to coincide with a day when the IDF forces would be away from their duties observing religious holidays. The peace rave was just a target of opportunity since they'd already picked the date months in advance.
Crack says:
'Hundreds of people killed in Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza with more trapped under the rubble'
Actually, they were killed when a rocket fired by terrorists malfunctioned. And how did they know 500 were killed just minutes after the rocket hit? Why was the press - and you - so eager to believe the terrorists and their propaganda?
Remember this one?
No babies were killed, let alone beheaded - Israel lies.
A few babies might have been killed but they were not beheaded - Israel lies.
40 babies were killed but they were not beheaded - Israel lies.
Not all of the 40 babies killed were beheaded - Israel lies.
Can Israel honestly say, in good faith, they are "targeting terrorists" when they are cutting off water, food, and electricity to the entire Palestinian population?
Yes, yes they can - the people of gaza selected the terrorists to be their leaders. Now they get to pay the price for that decision.
their goal is to drive the Jews into the sea.
=========
unless attack from East[Jordan] how do you drive jews into sea? !no sense of direction?
"You guys are too simple-minded for international politics:
"[An open air 'concentration camp' is] the appropriate way to put it."
Too funny! So it's a concentration camp and they want to control it so they can live there? How many Jews are currently living in Auschwitz and why on earth did they stay in the first place after the camp was liberated?
The Palestinians were given complete control of Gaza in 2005. The Israeli military withdrew; 20,000 Jews abandoned their homes never to return. How'd that work out?
And yet again you evade another direct question. Who taught you to hate?
"'Hundreds of people killed in Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza with more trapped under the rubble'"
When you wrote that, the cause had yet to be determined. Well, except in your head. I'm open minded, which means at this time, just like you, I don't yet know. Time will tell.
their goal is to drive the Jews into the sea.
=========
unless attack from East[Jordan] how do you drive jews into sea? !no sense of direction?
West TX Intermediate Crude said...
"Did you ever answer my question in previous thread re whether Hamas planned their attack to coincide with the Peace Rave, or was it just a target of opportunity for them?"
Crack doesn't answer questions. Not yours, not mine, not anybody's. That's his debate strategy.
Qatar gives these Hamas monsters aid and comfort.
the author was the benghazi film reviewer, who thought they bring mortars to the reviewing stand, yes he is a qatar tool
With a dictatorship, the rulers are often insulated against repercussions. It's their people who suffer, while they live in luxury.
"With a dictatorship, the rulers are often insulated against repercussions. It's their people who suffer, while they live in luxury."
Dictatorship? Have you looked at recent pictures of politicians in DC? I don't think those folks are missing any meals.
If committing this attack had been suicidal for Hamas, why weren’t Netanyahu and President Joe Biden celebrating?
Even if you believe someone you want destroyed is destroying themselves, you don't celebrate them taking others with them. There are over 1400 reasons not to be cheering.
pacwest said...
"It seems logical enough to group your enemies into a small area if you are trying to seperate certain segments of them."
For the hundredth time, without success? That's the "logical" conclusion? Repeat the barbarity, that not only hasn't worked before, but failed spectacularly? Do that - on an even larger scale?
Iman said...
"They should free the hostages and all of that will return."
All that demand is, is a demand for the Palestinian people in Gaza to suffer: Hamas' military wing has the hostages - not the Palestinian people in Gaza. Even Hamas' political wing can't tell the military side what to do - they've got the guns - so why punish the Palestinian people in Gaza? Don't you understand yet, that the problem is, no one gives a fuck about the Palestinian people in Gaza - including Hamas?
Iman said...
Shit happens when you torture, rape, and murder.
Yeah, like you end up torturing the wrong people, in the rush to get revenge.
West TX Intermediate Crude said...
Crack, I'll make it simple.
Always appreciated.
Water and electricity are dual use- both civilian and military uses, just like a steel factory or gasoline refinery.
Agreed.
Gazans have chosen to use them to make war.
Wrong. Gazans didn't do anything. They were told to leave their houses because people wanted to fight a war. When it was over, they were told they can't come back. Now they're being told to leave their houses, again, because people wanna fight a war. Do you see what's happening to them?
Against Israeli civilians.
You're confusing Palestinian civilians in Gaza with Hamas - a military group. That military group is far underground, or long gone, while they're bombing everyone else left behind, who had nothing to do with the attack, didn't even know it was going down.
If we had control of Nazi or Japanese water supply in WWII, do you think we would have kept it flowing?
But these aren't the Nazis or the Japanese. These are people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Honest people are comparing them to American slaves, but you guys keep framing them as criminals, like they've done something. AND you don't seem to understand that that's the kind of thing that makes people turn from frustration to hatred when their lives, and the lives of their families, are on the line.
Did you ever answer my question in previous thread re whether Hamas planned their attack to coincide with the Peace Rave, or was it just a target of opportunity for them?
I think both: the operation had been planned for over two years, so when the rave was announced, Hamas thought "We got 'em now!"
PB said...
gaza is larger than manhattan. many people don't feel imprisoned on Manhattan.
Man, you guys say dumb shit. Have you looked at Gaza lately? Do you know how many Gazans were killed in the month before the Hamas attack? Half of the people there are children. How many days, filled with the death of children, do you think you could handle before you felt you lived in a prison?
But it's not a prison. The people of Gaza committed no crime. It's a concentration camp.
Dr Weevil said...
"If you follow Crack's 2:27pm link to The Daily Mail" you'll discover what reporters refer to as "the first draft of history" - which, I'm sure, you guys think is a good reason to persecute somebody for repeating, rather than what happens in the normal course of war.
And it doesn't change my point that military actions confound the lives of the people of Gaza.
"There is a great deal of evidence, much of it filmed, that Islamic Jihad fired a salvo of rockets at Israel and one of them fell short and hit the hospital."
Islamic jihad are not the people of Gaza.
"It's all over Twitter and you can read about it there, and argue in real time, without waiting for a host's moderation."
Who, in their right mind, wants to argue in real time on Twitter?
n.n said...
"By characterizing the situations as apartheid, concentration camps, diversity, mass abortion fields, social justice, the forward-looking progression is being framed to force another Spring."
You guys just can't accept that the Palestinians are guilty of nothing more than being in the way, can you? I have rarely seen a single group more perfectly positioned to be abused - by the entire international community - in my life.
And that includes the Jews.
Paul said...
"The 'Palestinians' have said (Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, etc..) their goal is to drive the Jews into the sea."
And the Jews have say the same about them, you moron. They're all taught that shit in Hebrew school. Why do you not know that? And why are you so determined to only hold the Palestinians guilty for that kind of racism? What is wrong with you?
dwshelf said...
"It won't be over until one side kills the other."
Or somebody leaves. And the Jews are the only ones with a history of that, or have the means. But they could do it. They could walk away from the barbarity right now. But they won't. Because they have to preserve their manhood. After being put in ovens, they just can't be seen as "losing" to anyone.
So they must punish everybody.
TaeJohnDo said...
"The people of gaza selected the terrorists to be their leaders. Now they get to pay the price for that decision."
It's amazing you guys haven't killed the Democrats yet.
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"The Palestinians were given complete control of Gaza in 2005. The Israeli military withdrew; 20,000 Jews abandoned their homes never to return. How'd that work out?"
You guys are funny. You actually believe this, when every day we''re told that Israel controls the water, the electricity, and everything else about Gaza. They won't let them have an airport. They won't let them have open ports to the sea. But you really think that the people of Gaza have complete control over their destiny. Like I said, you guys are funny.
"Who taught you to hate?"
My earliest memory is of being hit with an ironing cord. I was about three years old. I was seeing people getting killed before I left elementary school. I was being sexually abused by everybody's friends, the gays, in a foster home. They didn't succeed, because I'm "violence prone," but they tried. People also tried to rape me in the Navy as a hazing exercise. Again, they didn't succeed - because I'm "violence prone," but they tried. Shall I go on, or should I just add your name to the list?
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"'Hundreds of people killed in Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza with more trapped under the rubble'"
When you wrote that, the cause had yet to be determined. Well, except in your head."
Like I said, you guys are too simple minded for international politics. First of all, I didn't write it, I posted a link. You never heard of "the rough draft of history"? Why couldn't you have just come back, as the story evolved, and corrected the story, without passing judgment on me, simply because I showed you the first thing that was written? And why would you assume what's in my head? Or that what's in my head can't be changed? Don't you see how you're revealing yourself to be an asshole? It is you who has their mind made up. It is you who cannot be persuaded. It is you who jumps to conclusions. It is you who lives by making assumptions about other people. You are the kind of person making problems in the world.
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"Crack doesn't answer questions. Not yours, not mine, not anybody's. That's his debate strategy."
I will let the number of replies here, including a reply to this specific question, stand as a testament to how much, and how often, and how passionately, and how determined people are to lie about me, on this blog. Conservative people. Supposedly the good guys.
I'm practically Palestinian.
Iman said...
"Qatar gives these Hamas monsters aid and comfort."
Wow. Out of all these comments, there is only one person (1) who seems to frame the damn thing correctly. I will point out, to everyone talking that kill 'em all shit, that the Palestinian people of Gaza are NOT receiving aid and comfort in Qatar. They are being bombed to shit by Israel and everyone else, with your blessings and hopes that they finish the job soon. Hamas is receiving aid and comfort from Qatar, and they're not being affected by any of that at all.
Congratulations: you've redefined the word "monsters".
Who taught you to hate?
American blacks learn from each other.
People keep repeating that Gaza is an open air prison, a huge concentration camp for poor Palestinian Arabs.
Yet, when israel proposes to free then from this prison and allow them to move to neighboring Egypt, Israel is accused of ethnic cleansing.
Gaza is the most unique prison and concentration camp of all times - its long suffering prisoners refuse to leave it, and denounce any attempt to move them to a better location - a huge neighboring country of their compatriots.
This is bizarre.
‘ An open air 'concentration camp' is] the appropriate way to put it. A lot of people are calling [Gaza] an open air 'prison' but the problem with that is it implies the Palestinian civilians who live there - over two million - are prisoners. They've committed a crime. They've committed no crime. The only crime they're guilty of is being born. Born in a refugee camp. Born as a concentration, camp inmate. And it is an open air concentration camp.“
And yet, any attempt to move then out of this alleged concentration camp and move to the country next door, where they could be free, is an attack on their humanity.
It’s so bizarre. Never before the alleged prisoners of a concentration camp would fight to continue living in this concentration camp.
"Hopefully, first reports are wrong, as they often are,...."
- Michael Hoh's reaction after hearing about the bombing of a hospital in Gaza
Way to kill the thread Crack.
Hyphenated American said...
"Gaza is the most unique prison and concentration camp of all times"
And Israel is fascinating because they're the all-powerful victims of people they keep in cages.
Crack, you still cannot respond….
“ Gaza is the most unique prison and concentration camp of all times"
And Israel is fascinating because they're the all-powerful victims of people they keep in cages.”
So if Gaza is a cage, a prison, a concentration camp - then the world needs to let the Gaza Arabs free, move them out of Gaza to - say, Egypt. And yet, the same people who insist that gaza is a prison and a cage, and a concentration camp, want to keep Arabs in gaza.
Why?
Do you crack agree that we must keep Arabs in Gaza concentration camp? Or should we free them and move to Egypt?
"The Crack Emcee said...
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"Crack doesn't answer questions. Not yours, not mine, not anybody's. That's his debate strategy."
I will let the number of replies here, including a reply to this specific question, stand as a testament to how much, and how often, and how passionately, and how determined people are to lie about me, on this blog. Conservative people. Supposedly the good guys.
I'm practically Palestinian."
Still waiting...
"Old and slow said...
Way to kill the thread Crack."
Desperation is an ugly thing.
"Or somebody leaves. And the Jews are the only ones with a history of that, or have the means. But they could do it. They could walk away from the barbarity right now. But they won't. Because they have to preserve their manhood."
So, oh wise one, where can the millions of Jews in Israel find another home? Who will move out to allow the Jews a home. A new nation built from scratch? On land where making it livable is practical. At whose expense? Over what time frame?
Gawd you play the "wise One" while spouting such simplistic crap.
Hyphenated American said...
"if Gaza is a cage, a prison, a concentration camp - then the world needs to let the Gaza Arabs free, move them out of Gaza to - say, Egypt."
Why is the immediate, and first assumption that they have to leave? They were living there when the Zionists arrived. The whole point is they haven't been allowed back. That's the crime against them. And your answer is just to keep the crime going - for their own good?
"And yet, the same people who insist that gaza is a prison and a cage, and a concentration camp, want to keep Arabs in gaza."
Or the world could tell the Zioniststs, after 75 years of war, this was a bad idea.
Free Manure While You Wait! said...
"Old and slow said...
Way to kill the thread Crack."
Desperation is an ugly thing.
You're getting to the point where I'm gonna stop respecting or answering you.
Crack, you are so amusing.
“ Why is the immediate, and first assumption that they have to leave?”
You said that Gaza was a concentration camp. A brutal prison. Wouldn’t it make sense to free Arabs from Gaza, from this brutal concentration camp?
“ They were living there when the Zionists arrived. “
In Gaza? They were living in this brutal concentration camp? So they like living in a con entry in camp?
‘The whole point is they haven't been allowed back. That's the crime against them. “
So they used to live in Gaza the concentration camp, and you want them to stay there because this is where they belong, even though they are not there now. This is seriously confusing. Are they in Gaza now or not? Is Gaza a concentration camp?
“And your answer is just to keep the crime going - for their own good?”
No, you wish to keep them to stay in Gaza the concentration camp, not me. I propose they return to their home Kane, Egypt - where they can be free from the Jews.
Are you on crack?
Crack, you are in serious mental trouble. You are tripping.
“ Why is the immediate, and first assumption that they have to leave? “
Why should they leave Gaza - the what you described as a brutal concentration camp? Well, why would you want to keep them in a concentration camp?
“They were living there when the Zionists arrived.”
They lived in Gaza, the concentration camp, before Jews arrived? That’s debatable, but let’s assume you are right. Are you arguing that they always enjoyed living in a concentration camp?
“The whole point is they haven't been allowed back. “
So they are not in Gaza now? And you want them to return to Gaza, the concentration camp?
“That's the crime against them. And your answer is just to keep the crime going - for their own good?”
So they have always lived in Gaza the concentration camp, but not anymore, and you wish they back in Gaza. So who re those people in Gaza now?
You seem so confused.
Hyphenated American said...
Are you on crack?
You either can't read or you can't interpret writing, neither of which is my fault. I feel for you.
Hyphenated American said...
"You seem so confused."
Bob Dylan said everybody must get stoned. John Lennon said you're going to crucify him. So - since y'all seem so intent on punishing the Palestinians - I am a little confused:
Why did y'all kill Jesus again?
Crack, I went sentence by sentence, analyzing what you wrote, and showing how wrong you are - logically and factually inconsistent.
Based on your reply, it’s obvious that you know that you lost this exchange. Which is why you ran with talking about Jesus, Bob Dylan and Lennon - but not Gaza, the alleged “concentration camp”,
So once again - why do you wish to keep Arabs in Gaza, the concentration camp? Why are you against freeing them, and letting them go to Egypt?
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