August 9, 2023
"The social media company Twitter was forced to hand over records from former president Donald Trump’s account..."
"... to the special counsel investigating the events leading up to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack and pay [$350,000] sanctions for failing to do so more quickly, as disclosed in an appellate court ruling unsealed Wednesday.... Attorneys for Twitter did not oppose the search warrant but argued [unsuccessfuly] that a gag order preventing the company from alerting Trump to the search violated the First Amendment.... [Federal district judge, Beryl A. Howell] found that there were 'reasonable grounds to believe' that disclosing the warrant to Trump 'would seriously jeopardize the ongoing investigation' by giving him 'an opportunity to destroy evidence, change patterns of behavior, [or] notify confederates,' according to the appellate ruling. Howell also found the former president might 'flee from prosecution,' although the special counsel’s team later said they did not intend to make that argument and it was not included in her final analysis.... The ruling does not specify what was turned over, but the grand jury indictment against Trump handed down this month includes references to 18 of Trump’s tweets...."
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68 comments:
"the Jan. 6, 2021, attack..."
You mean those people walking around, some escorted by police, taking pictures? *That* attack?
Now a judge is inventing excuses to help with the prosecution? Trump has reason enough to flee prosecution if that was possible, so I don’t think taking his statements made in public would be the final straw. What it does tell us is that the federal government will intimidate social media companies to give up any freedom of privacy individuals thought they might have. Not surprising though since it was ruled in 1988 that once you put something in the trash and on the curb, it was free game for prosecutors.
Funny how the Feds never have to meet deadlines. The United States is now an illegitimate tyranny.
I assume that the DOJ is trying to see Trump's DMs. These DMs would have been when he was President. How limited would the warrant be? Would one of Biden's people have access to all of Trump's DMs? If limited, who would review them to see what DMs were relevant to the trial? Could the judge or court even be trusted as it is clear that partisans will bend and break rules? Do the Republicans get access to Biden's DMs to level the political strategic playing field?
Does this mean we can prosecute Hillary for her "Happy Birthday to this future president!" tweet as it implied election interference? Asking for a friend.
Funny how the Feds never have to meet deadlines. The United States is now an illegitimate tyranny.
It's all projection. The J6 committee has apparently destroyed evidence now that Trump has subpoena power. Hillary Clinton destroyed evidence when Congress convened an oversight committee, there was, per a decision by Obama, no Inspector General at State while she was there. She immediately destroyed evidence of meetings that she had as SoS with people who paid her hundreds of millions.
Naturally, the DoJ assumes that Trump would do the same, although how he was supposed to hack Twitter's servers is unknown to me, and why there should be a large fine for "seeking redress of grievances" in the court system is something only a Democrat could explain.
It must really hurt Musk that after spending $44bn trying to impress him Trump still hasn't used his Twitter account.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly:
Hillary Clinton, once subpoenaed for her bathroom email server, can have her law firm literally destroy evidence before handing over records pursuant to that subpoena. 33,000 emails deleted by her attorney's, and only then do they hand over the yoga emails and whatnot. No reasonable prosecutor would take her to court for that.
But Trump ... on the other hand ...
I hope Donald Trump is keeping lists of every person who needs to be sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba the second he becomes President again for their secret trails that, if revealed, would have "national security implications" or he could just drone them like Obama did.
Is there any limit to what the Democrats will do to assure that Trump is the GOP nominee in 2024?
That's a nice move, fining Twitter for having the gall to challenge the demand that it cough up its customer's private "papers" (in a Fourth Amendment sense). I hope they learned their lesson: whoever makes a promise to Trump to protect his property and not instantly sell him out, is going to pay. I think $350K was just a warning shot. Why not $100 million per infraction?
What does Musk have to say about this? Presumably it was done without his knowledge or approval, but now he'll have to live with the damage to his brand and his personnel.
Remember when the Left would accuse the Right of Fascism? My, oh my, they love that shit now. No brains, no balls, no principles, the Left will happily railroad Trump and feel good about themselves the morning after. No sentient American Liberal doesn't know that the Trump prosecutions are political by nature, but none have the strength of character to acknowledge it.
COVID trained Americans to accept the destruction of free speech and the First Amendment.
9/11 was probably the pre-curser to the destruction of the First Amendment, and most of the other amendments while I'm thinking about it...but COVID...wow! What a capitulation.
With a current life expectancy of 75 plus, Americans threw out the first amendment for COVID. Free speech has been MOST limited and attacked via COVID bullshit. HCQ. Ivermectin. Lab leak. mRNA "vaccines". And they convinced the left, even the hippies, it was based on "science"... It worked because "science" is their default religion. Even if its fake science like man-made Global Warming.
With Donald Trump we are seeing 1) the government's documents are classified and protected, and 2) your freedom of speech is not.
This government sure likes to gag people.
They thought he would destroy evidence of public tweets? Or were these some secret tweets? Did all of this happen before or after Trump was banned from the platform?
Blogger Rich said...
It must really hurt Musk that after spending $44bn trying to impress him Trump still hasn't used his Twitter account.
Trump doesn't have to post on Twitter. He posts on Truth Social, and the screen shots go viral and trend Top 5.
Trump in 2016 took Twitter to another level. He realized its communication power before any of these idiots. That's why they eventually banned him.
Now Trump can post on Truth Social, knowing it will fly all over Twitter. Musk gets that.
The feds will try to go after Trump's ability to post on Truth Social soon or go after Musk for allowing screen shots. This was a pre-curser.
The fact that they even bandied about making the argument that Trump would flee just proves how prejudiced that they are against the man, to the point of making it impossible for them to act with any degree of fairness.
Howell also found the former president might 'flee from prosecution,' although the special counsel’s team later said they did not intend to make that argument and it was not included in her final analysis.
No "take backs".
You made a stupid argument and the stupid judge agreed.
The only way this isn't stupid is if 'flee from prosecution' is secret code for 'run to the nearest TV camera'.
They are out to hang him, he scares the pants off these grifters. They are going to FAFO if they find him guilty and try to jail him.
Trump could have gotten Mike Pence killed on January 6 and we would not have known anything about it if Jack Smith had not subpoenaed Trump's Twitter account.
As it happened, at 2:24 pm, after advisors had left our famous Defendant alone in his dining room, the Defendant issued a Tweet intended to further delay and obstruct the certification: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
@Althouse, so are you happy with the American legal system you (along with your lefty friends) helped create?
“I hope Donald Trump is keeping lists of every person who needs to be sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba the second he becomes President again for their secret trails that, if revealed, would have "national security implications" or he could just drone them like Obama did.”
Oh? Isn’t GTMO full of Democrats that were indicted and found guilty based on evidence from the Durham investigation? No? What?!
The fuck! A federal judge speculated that a former President would flee the country! Why didn’t she just say flee to Russia.
Note to judge: Don’t speculate.
Buckwheathikes said...
So, if I'm understanding this correctly:
Hillary Clinton, once subpoenaed for her bathroom email server, can have her law firm literally destroy evidence before handing over records pursuant to that subpoena. 33,000 emails deleted by her attorney's, and only then do they hand over the yoga emails and whatnot. No reasonable prosecutor would take her to court for that.
But Trump ... on the other hand ...
"Whataboutitisms" don't help in a court hearing. As Joe Friday often pointed out, "Just the facts, Bucky, just the facts."
tim in vermont said...
...why there should be a large fine for "seeking redress of grievances" in the court system is something only a Democrat could explain.
Hell, isn't Trump being criminally charged for "seeking redress of grievances" in Congress?
The judge is an Obama judge.
Apparently criticizing a public figure is an assassination attempt.
Why shouldn’t a court take “whataboutism” into account, or is equal protection not a thing for Republicans?
Regarding the other gag order--in the "Election Conspiracy" prosecution--shouldn't the judge rule that if the government can't make its case without allowing the defendant--the leading Presidential candidate and former President--unfettered First Amendment rights, then the government (led by the defendant's opponent) should drop the charges?
Given the primacy of the First Amendment, the primary importance of political speech, the unprecedented and "novel" nature of the charges, the existence of a recognized dispute about the Constitutional procedure at issue (yes, I'm talking about you, Mr. Tribe) and the fundamental principle of reasonable doubt, it would seem to be a no-brainer to anyone not a political hack.
Otherwise it's just a star chamber.
gadfly,
Trump could have gotten Mike Pence killed on January 6 and we would not have known anything about it if Jack Smith had not subpoenaed Trump's Twitter account.
Um. I think the people yelling "Hang Mike Pence!" at the Capitol rally might have given us a bit of a clue, nyet? Not that Trump actually solicited this behavior, but that there was sufficient evidence for some to argue so.
As for Trump fleeing the country (no longer replying to gadfly, but to the OP), that is so idiotic that I shouldn't respond at all, except that some people here might be inclined to take it seriously.
18 Tweets out of how many thousand? Combing through a very public haystack looking for a needle. With the problem that the defense may bring in more Tweets to show context regarding intent.
The first amendment is null and void if you go against the
"family"
i LIKE the concept of making it ILLEGAL for the accused to know..
IF he's being investigated
WHAT is being investigated
WHY he's being investigated
What charges he's charged with
What the verdict is
WHERE he is supposed to report for prison
Seems like it will make GUILTY decisions much easier to come by
"As it happened, at 2:24 pm, after advisors had left our famous Defendant alone in his dining room, the Defendant issued a Tweet intended to further delay and obstruct the certification: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
Oh, the HORROR!
Are you really that cowardly, Gadfly?
Note that the Tweet does nothing to obstruct or delay anything, and in fact confirms that Pence had already folded and the jig was up. If I recall correctly that was right around the time that Trump issued a Tweet in which he which told everyone to go home-which the shadow government convinced Twitter to censor so they could claim that he had incited an "insurrection", to support an impeachment (of a man who was no longer President) for which they hired Hollywood producers to present their biased version of events, and denied their political opposition any say in appointing the members of the committee to address the question.
Cover your ears--you are going to hear a lot of stuff you don't want to hear over the next few months, you delicate flower, you.
Is there any limit to what the Democrats will do to assure that Trump is the GOP nominee in 2024?"
No. He must run every four years and lose to the Democrat for as long as he remains alive.
That's the plan, and they're sticking to it.
Historically, the corrupt bureaucracy will do ANYTHING to hold onto power. The lucky ones manage to die in their beds before the palace is overrun. They almost never see it coming, but in a sense they really have nothing to lose. They are useless, their undeserving current positions are the best they could hope to achieve, and any loss in station is unthinkable.
They do not realize the risks here. Civil wars have been started for less, and yet they keep pushing.
GW wrote: "Trump doesn't have to post on Twitter. He posts on Truth Social, and the screen shots go viral and trend Top 5."
I thought that Twitter/X was a pubic forum where all speech was open. If so, on what grounds did Musk decide it was private information? The positioning of all the arguments about free speech and private records is confusing. At this point, Truth Social Media and Twitter/X have similar credibility (and probably equal number of audience).
They went through his wife's underwear drawer, why should anything else be surprising.
The federal government was Donald Trump’s employer, will Elon Musk now be paying his legal bill: If you were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or liking something on this platform, we will fund your legal bill.
But what about Hunter Biden’s laptop? Hunter Biden was informed and given the opportunity to object when Trump’s DOJ subpoenaed his laptop. Oh, he wasn’t? Never mind.
Owen said...
"That's a nice move, fining Twitter for having the gall to challenge the demand that it cough up its customer's private "papers" (in a Fourth Amendment sense)."
Good legal strategy- ignore the court order, get sanctioned, and then whine about it.
The Know Nothings are such great litigators.
A former corrupt president of Ukraine flew to Russia to be with his overlords. Trump would do the same if he thought his fat ass would end up behind bars.
"But what about Hunter Biden’s laptop? Hunter Biden was informed and given the opportunity to object when Trump’s DOJ subpoenaed his laptop. Oh, he wasn’t? Never mind."
I don't understand. Hunter abandoned his laptop at the computer shop. When did Trump's DOJ subpoena it?
"As for Trump fleeing the country (no longer replying to gadfly, but to the OP), that is so idiotic that I shouldn't respond at all, except that some people here might be inclined to take it seriously."
You were thinking Inga, right? Cuz I was thinking Inga.
Parts of out government are nuts and living in a fantasy. It's a f*cking cult. It's a nightmare.
They thought he would destroy evidence of public tweets? Or were these some secret tweets? Did all of this happen before or after Trump was banned from the platform?
My very thought. The Internet is forever.
They went through his wife's underwear drawer, why should anything else be surprising.
=========
were any added adjacent to Edgar Hoover collection at the Smithsonian?
Obama judge, of course.
Again - the corrupt mob soviet left's attack on speech. F the left. with a shovel.
New indictment: it's a felony to make a mean tweet, punishable by death.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
They'll come for you next, if they make it off my property alive.
"Oh? Isn’t GTMO full of Democrats"
Terrorists/Democrats
Tomato/Tomato
Obviously Twitter has a much larger audience than Truth Social. No platform has or lacks credibility. Any more than a bulletin board at the local supermarket does. The individuals making comments on the medium have credibility. Or do not. Rich does not help his own credibility when he says things that are so silly, petty, and disconnected from reality.
Gadfly's comment, as is common with Gadfly's comments, is simply incomprehensible. How President Trump could have gotten Vice President Pence killed on January 6 (by means unmentioned) and we wouldn't have known about it if Jack Smith hadn't got a warrant (not a subpoena) for President Trump's Twitter account data is a mystery. There is no logical connection between the first paragraph's assertions and the second paragraph. The tweet referenced in the second paragraph was known the second it was posted, as it was openly displayed to the public on President Trump's Twitter page. It feels like there is a middle paragraph missing.
The orange man himself at his most covfefe has never been as incoherent and disjointed as these two.
Judge Howell's writings on this matter betray a similar lack of coherent, rational thought. Are we sure federal judges aren't Althouse commenters? How rarefied the air might just be here!
gadfly said...
"Whataboutitisms" don't help in a court hearing. As Joe Friday often pointed out, "Just the facts, Bucky, just the facts."
8/9/23, 6:39 PM
--
Jabfly unmoved by concerns re double standards, selective "justice".
It's Truuuummmmpppp!
(Likes his jabs though)
LBOTC,
The computer tech offered up the repeatedly abandoned laptop to FBI...who sat on it.
"Hunter abandoned his laptop at the computer shop."
Yeah, they are the real "know nothings."
"A former corrupt president of Ukraine flew to Russia to be with his overlords"
There were assassination attempts against his motorcade made by US proxies, Biden's neonazis had just stormed the parliament while armed, and the evidence that he is corrupt is that Joe Biden and Obama wanted him out of office so that they could further expand NATO towards Russia, except that the Ukrainians would not vote for it, so other means had to be taken.
Same as Pakistan. Joe Biden wanted Imran, the most popular politician in India, who infuriated Biden by remaining neutral on Ukraine, so he has been jailed on "corruption" charges that most Indians believe are baseless.
You are a know nothing who feels free to pontificate on stuff you are completely ignorant about.
"Good legal strategy- ignore the court order, get sanctioned, and then whine about it. "
They replied to the judge with legal arguments, they didn't "ignore the court order."
Another "know nothing."
This is the same thing that went on with Mar a Lago, Trump was negotiating with the library cop when the raid happened. Then they finally got around to asking Joe Biden why he had classified documents where both Chinese nationals who funded his now Secretary of State's "foundation," and oh, BTW, paid Joe Biden a million dollars for a no-show teaching job, and his unregistered foreign agent son had easy access to them, sure they returned them right away. Because the rules had changed overnight when they came up with the scheme of turning a common practice into a crime, since it was Trump.
All of you guys are incredibly ignorant about the facts surrounding the things you have such strong opinions about. I am pretty sure that if you actually believed the things you say, you would be better at defending them.
I guess it's common practice for the US to deal with a corrupt president in a country that's none of our business, by looking the other way while terrorists with a fondness for Hitler set up snipers over a large demonstration, then kill 49 people, and blame the massacre on the "corrupt president," and the same Secretary of State who paid Joe Biden a million dollars out of Chinese money, and got appointed, continues to repeat this thoroughly debunked story as true, to justify that we immediately recognized the perpetrators of that massacre as the "legitimate government" of Ukraine.
The problem for Kiev is that half of Ukraine refused to go along with it, and it's been in a civil war ever since. Or did our resident "know nothings" not know that?
Feel free to call me out on any of what I said.
LBOTC - you mean the FBI in Trump’s DOJ headed by a trump appointee? And what’s the evidence they sat on it?
I feel sorry for the investigators who have to sift through that material. They are heroes.
tim, lay off the booze.
"Same as Pakistan. Joe Biden wanted Imran, the most popular politician in India, who infuriated Biden by remaining neutral on Ukraine, so he has been jailed on "corruption" charges that most Indians believe are baseless."
You realize Pakistani people live in Pakistan, not Indians ... right?
Also, as someone who spent time there - Imran Khan is as corrupt as the average PM in Pakistan ... completely corrupt. He also is more than happy to foster a more extreme version of Islam if it gets him votes.
"Imran Khan is as corrupt as the average PM in Pakistan"
In other words, no business of ours. And yet we pressured the Pakistanis to depose him with bullshit prosecutions, throw him in prison, and knowing that that would not be enough, get him banned from politics for five years. It wasn't corruption that got Khan thrown out, it was his reluctance to blindly accept the US narrative on that conflict that got him deposed, as the leaked diplomatic cable shows.
https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/
I am sure that the Democrats are studying that "banned from politics" angle, since nothing else is working, and Biden trails Trump outside the margin of error. By the time Trump gets all of the BS thrown out by the Supreme Court, the election will be over, and Trump will be Biden's age, in other words, too old to run.
That's what Jack Smith did to the Republican governor of Virginia, he prosecuted him, knocked him out of the election, and by the time he got all of the charges thrown out for excessive legal creativity, the Democrats had control of the governor's office in VA, and elections, BTW. This is why he was selected for the job.
meanwhile - Joe Biden, his bother and son are as corrupt as the day is long.
FBI in on it - for the big payouts. Media(D) loyalist, dutifully ignore
USA = banana republic.
btw- some family members just returned from a trip to Norway. They loved it. Very Clean - with civic pride all over the place and nice folks. Socialist in many ways, too. We are a socialist nation, for the most part, but because our system is so corrupt, bankrupt and morally degenerate - run by mob-like corrupt Oligarchs... the USA will collapse. This cannot go on forever.
We are at the edge.
Norway works because they are not ruled by corruption like we are.
It is amusing to me that of the all of the assertions I have made, all damning to Joe Biden, I only get called out on a typo.
This all reminds me of the decay of the Roman Republic as it descended into tyranny and civil war in the first century BC. The bribery, the hypocrisy, the perjury, the scheming and backstabbing (sometimes literally so), the factional fighting of the populares and optimes, and the lawlessness and ruthlessness with which those in power attacked their enemies, e.g. the proscriptions of Marius. Caesar never would have crossed the Rubicon with his legions if not for the fact that Cato and Cicero and the other defenders of aristocratic privilege in the Senate were threatening to put him on trial for the flimsiest of charges in retaliation for his populist reforms when he was consul. A similar outcome for the United States is not to be discounted.
Well Tim, I'm largely on your side in this discussion, but referring to Pakistanis as Indians was neither a typo or an insignificant detail. It's kind of a huge mistake.
tim in vermont said...
"It is amusing to me that of the all of the assertions I have made, all damning to Joe Biden, I only get called out on a typo."
That is the only argument they have. None.
"But what about Hunter Biden’s laptop? Hunter Biden was informed and given the opportunity to object when Trump’s DOJ subpoenaed his laptop. Oh, he wasn’t? Never mind."
The laptop no longer belonged to Hunter. It belonged to the computer shop owner after Hunter abandoned it there. That's a pretty common practice nationwide.
tim in vermont said...
It is amusing to me that of the all of the assertions I have made, all damning to Joe Biden, I only get called out on a typo.
8/10/23, 8:40 AM
Because they HAVE nothing else. They know he's corrupt, they know we know he is corrupt and they don't care that everyone knows he is corrupt. He is their guy, no matter what....BUTTT TRUMMMMMMMMMP!!!
Tim in Vermont said -- "It is amusing to me that of the all of the assertions I have made, all damning to Joe Biden, I only get called out on a typo."
Assertions? What about evidence? You know facts. Not just opinions, thoughts, feelings, bullshit.
The three scumbag "judges" in this ruling were two Biden appointees and one Obama appointee.
Here's hoping SCOTUS takes this, and rules honestly.
Note: the District Court judge initially made the order on the grounds that Trump was "a flight risk". Then the DoJ admitted to themselves that that claim was so ludicrous that NO ONE would buy it, and so dropped it.
That, in and of itself, should be grounds for tossing everything teh judge ruled on. Yes, once the DoJ admitted the "flight risk" claim was insane, so did the "judge". So what?
The fact that the loser rubber stamped it in the first place lets us know that nothing coming from that "judge" has any value
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