Said Trump, quoted in
"Trump on possible court-ordered limits: ‘They’re not taking away my First Amendment rights’/The former president campaigned in New Hampshire and called the latest charges against him 'bullshit,' saying, 'I will talk about it'" (Politico).
“They don’t want me to speak about a rigged election. They don’t want me to speak about it. Whereas I have freedom of speech, First Amendment,” Trump said.
Biden, Trump claimed, is “forcing me nevertheless to spend time and money away from the campaign trial in order to fight bogus, made-up accusations and charges.”
“I’m sorry I won’t be able to go to Iowa today, I won’t be able to go to New Hampshire today because I’m sitting in a courtroom on bullshit,” Trump said to the crowd, eliciting cheers and chants of “bullshit.”
Posts
60 comments:
Trump should keep talking about it and defy any gag order imposed by the Obama appointed biased judge.
The 2020 election was rigged. Don't shut up about it Trump. It's a reality.
Only the beneficiary of a rigged election [Biden], who is unaccountable to the voters, could get away with this bullshit.
I don't have to like Trump (and really, I don't) to recognize that he's right on this.
Process = punishment. But the bullshit does double duty as opium. That helps Trump. But it helps progs more. And there we are.
At this point if the behavior of the Biden Justice Dept doesn't tell you the 2020 election was rigged... you're clueless. And if that doesn't piss you off, left, right, DeSantis, or MAGA...then don't pretend you want to "defend democracy".
You're not interested in winning either. You're placating. Surrendering. Capitulating.
Watching the 1% to 2% GOPe Presidential candidates pray the court cases take Trump out is some weak ass bullshit. Is Chris Christie north of 350lbs now?? Somebody start a heavy metal group call Judas Pence, cool?
If you follow the paid DeSantis influencers on Twitter, they're coordinated claim is "Trump lost. Keri Lake lost". They are all in on the clueless denials, pretending that not reconciling our dirty elections will fix things.
phantommut said...
"I don't have to like Trump (and really, I don't) to recognize that he's right on this."
And yet people will sell their morality convincing others that he's never right.
Yeah, trying to keep him from talking about it during the elections sounds like some bullish#t
The proposed Protective Order isn't a gag order. This is a straight-up lie from Trump. Is that why you posted the quote, Althouse? To promote a discussion of the fundamental inaccuracy of the Trump claim?
Under the proposed Protective Order, Trump is simply barred from releasing or discussing or otherwise publicizing particular discovery material. Under the Order, Trump could still claim -- falsely, as he is now -- that "Biden" is prosecuting him. Or that the prosecution is unfair. What Trump could not do is to take bits of grand jury testimony and publicize it. Trump could not identify former aides who testified against him in a grand jury. Trump could not name FBI investigators, etc.
It is a stone-cold Trump lie that his First Amendment rights are violated. These Protective Orders are commonplace in federal criminal trials; intelligent people know that. Dumb Trump fans don't; and instead they listen to Trump.
Gusty Winds said...
Trump should keep talking about it and defy any gag order imposed by the Obama appointed biased judge.
The 2020 election was rigged. Don't shut up about it Trump. It's a reality.
Only the beneficiary of a rigged election [Biden], who is unaccountable to the voters, could get away with this bullshit.
We're going to beat you in federal court and in state courts; we're going to beat you in elections; we're going to beat you in the court of public opinion. You can keep saying what you've been saying; it is a losing argument everywhere except the Trump fever swamps.
Trump is spreading malinformation, that is information that is truthful but is not helpful to the government.
Trump will keep speaking until he's dead. He's just that kind of guy, for better or worse. I have a hate/love relationship with his desire to dominate conversations, but I also recognize the world were that was gauche doesn't exist anymore. You can't not dominate the conversation with people that don't know anything else. I hate that it's necessary, but I love that he's willing to do what previous candidates felt was 'too below them' to consider.
Fighting nasty people means getting nasty.
Shorter Chuck: selective leaks about politically sensitive topics are a US government monopoly.
The Democrats would love for the primary issue in the 2024 to be how Trump was cheated out of the 2020 election..
It will give the a pass on the incompetence they have displayed over the last 2.5 years.
We're going to beat you in federal court and in state courts; we're going to beat you in elections; we're going to beat you in the court of public opinion.
It is worth noting two things:
1. The lefty doesn't care about actually being objectively right and does not consider it even a metric of whether victory has been achieved; the lefty cares about only winning in government institutions currently controlled by the lefty's fellow travelers, and being perceived to have won among the correct people.
2. The lefty has accurately sussed out what is important for victory, and until conservatives as a whole understand this and require this of their leadership, they will continue to lose to the lefty.
Chuck said...
We're going to beat you in federal court and in state courts; we're going to beat you in elections; we're going to beat you in the court of public opinion. You can keep saying what you've been saying; it is a losing argument everywhere except the Trump fever swamps.
Interesting you state winning in the courts first. That's the corrupt liberal play. We're going to live trough it in Wisconsin again with our new liberal Karen filled Supreme Court.
What I write regarding the 2020 election fraud is the truth. And what Trump is saying about 2020 election fraud is the truth. You just like the outcome Chuck. You're one of the beneficiaries. The truth doesn't benefit you.
But, I'm sure your upcoming gender affirming surgery will be a success and I wish you the best of luck.
We either have a Constitutional Republic/Democracy or we pretend to have a Constitutional Republic/Democracy. At the moment any idiot pretending the 2020 election was clean is living in the Land of Make Believe.
My goodness does this fella ever stop whining? Could you imagine living with that if anyone would have you? Yikes
This from Chucks beloved Michigan. This explains Chuck.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/now-we-have-proof-tgp-exclusive-massive-2020/
Now go and piss off, Chuck the Liar.
away from the campaign trial
"Campaign trial"! A new meme. I like it!
Christie said that The Problem in America, is that we are NOT giving ENOUGH support to the Ukraine
https://news.yahoo.com/chris-christie-meets-zelenskyy-unannounced-153513612.html
Your choice is clear.. Thermonuclear war, or not
Nobody can possibly think Trump should have been impeached the first time because of what he did supposedly against Biden (his possible future opponent!!) , but what is happening now with Trump is ok.
Those two thoughts cannot live in the same head unless someone is completely partisan.
Fun day! So many lefty lies here Let’s fix them for Chuck
We're going to CHEAT you in federal court and in state courts; we're going to CHEAT you in elections; we're going to CHEAT you in the court of public opinion. You can keep saying what you've been saying; it is a FORBIDDEN argument everywhere except the MSM fever swamps ( WHO LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING)
Under the proposed Protective Order, Trump is simply barred from releasing or discussing or otherwise publicizing particular discovery material.
Why though, Chuck? Why the secrecy about evidence that would be used to convict him and send him to jail? Protective orders may be commonplace but that doesn't mean they are right and they do infringe on First Amendment rights. In this case it might be because the evidence the prosecution has is all smoke and mirrors.
The most common answer given is that it is to protect the rights of the accused. That should be a reason why the prosecution doesn't release material publicly but shouldn't bind the defense.
In any case Trump is signaling he wants that fight. He's calling the bluff. A judge that issues the protective order is going to have to jail him for contempt, because he's going to violate it. And jailing your primary political opponent is really bad optics, especially in the middle of a campaign.
When will Trump opponents realize that Trump has no shame, he has no "How Dare you!" response. He doesn't care about norms, he doesn't get embarrassed, he just doesn't care. It's his superpower. Attempting to shame or ridicule or convince him he's wrong will only result in him getting stronger.
It will give the a pass on the incompetence they have displayed over the last 2.5 years.
We all feel the incompetence every day. By pushing the message of a stolen election it highlights the incompetence. "The people didn't vote for incompetence and it was bad luck", rather it gives agency to the big bad bear in the woods. "They stole the election and now how you feel about the incompetence makes sense. What will they do next?"
It also lowers the impact of pro Biden forces. They don't need to vote because their vote will be stolen for them. If you think it's a foregone conclusion why go sit in line?
The proposed Protective Order isn't a gag order.
[...]
Under the proposed Protective Order, Trump is simply barred from releasing or discussing or otherwise publicizing...
Were there any logic questions on your LSAT Chuck?
It's a gag order. It may be a limited gag order but it's still a gag order. What are they so scared of revealing? They have to reveal at trial, right? Right?
Let's just not give the evidence to Trump. We'll just imprison him on secret information. The jury doesn't need to hear it either. Straight to jail. We all know he's guilty, we shouldn't need to prove anything.
The indictment makes it clear: This is not about lies vs. free speech.
This is about acts: Disrupting the counting of votes.
The speech - even lies — may be protected speech, but if uttered in furtherance of a crime, it indicates the actor’s intentions.
If I were to say “That bank stole my money. I should rob it.” and it ends there: No crime. Protected speech.
But if I utter those words and the attempt to rob the bank, no one will doubt that was my purpose and the purpose was signaled by my statement — free speech or not.
More narrowly, when fifteen of my most trustworthy aides and advisors say, “They didn’t steal your money and robbing the bank is crazy.” I shouldn’t expect a jury to buy it.
It doesn’t pass the “You’ve got to be $@&!! me” test.
Gusty Winds said...
At this point if the behavior of the Biden Justice Dept doesn't tell you the 2020 election was rigged... you're clueless. And if that doesn't piss you off, left, right, DeSantis, or MAGA...then don't pretend you want to "defend democracy".
You're not interested in winning either. You're placating. Surrendering. Capitulating.
Watching the 1% to 2% GOPe Presidential candidates pray the court cases take Trump out is some weak ass bullshit. Is Chris Christie north of 350lbs now?? Somebody start a heavy metal group call Judas Pence, cool?
If you follow the paid DeSantis influencers on Twitter, they're coordinated claim is "Trump lost. Keri Lake lost". They are all in on the clueless denials, pretending that not reconciling our dirty elections will fix things.
8/9/23, 8:03 AM
1 million times THIS^^^^^^
Rusty your Gateway Pundit link contains cherry-picked old news that has long been dealt with in a way that satisfied Michigan Republican Senate investigators. No ballots were issued to suspicious AV applications in Muskegon.
But the real point is that you shouldn't hijack an Althouse comments page simply to attempt a potshot at me. Tell me where you'd like to debate it and I might join you there.
This is simple fundamental respect for Althouse comments page hygiene.
The charges against Trump have nothing to do with free speech. Read the indictment. The charges resulted from Trump’s conduct.
The First Amendment protects speech. It doesn't protect conspiracy and illegal activity. Even if Trump truly thought the election was stolen (however one would determine that belief), he isn't allowed to conspire and take illegal steps that violate the Constitution and laws in service of that belief. Too much attention in media on this "lies" issue and not enough on his concrete actions. Lots of Capitol rioters may have seriously believed election was stolen, but they are still guilty of (and being sent to prison for) illegal actions, regardless of their beliefs.
We're going to beat you in federal court and in state courts; we're going to beat you in elections; we're going to beat you in the court of public opinion. You can keep saying what you've been saying; it is a losing argument everywhere except the Trump fever swamps.
8/9/23, 8:19 AM
At least Chucky is admitting he is a lying Progressive now.
You have a post to respond to.
Chuck comments.
Then everyone responds to Chuck.
What's up with that dynamic? You don't like what he says, but you all stop what you're doing and make it your business to give him maximum response.
It's like he's one of those old "pick-up" artists "negging" you.
Brian said...
The proposed Protective Order isn't a gag order.
[...]
Under the proposed Protective Order, Trump is simply barred from releasing or discussing or otherwise publicizing...
Were there any logic questions on your LSAT Chuck?
It's a gag order. It may be a limited gag order but it's still a gag order. What are they so scared of revealing? They have to reveal at trial, right? Right?
Let's just not give the evidence to Trump. We'll just imprison him on secret information. The jury doesn't need to hear it either. Straight to jail. We all know he's guilty, we shouldn't need to prove anything.
This is surely the champion Stupid Comment of the Day. Yes, of course the government is going to give Trump all of the discovery materials. Exculpatory as well as inculpatory. All of it. Even highly confidential information. The Brady Rule.
And because Trump's lawyers are going to get all of that, a protective order is needed. It is standard in all federal criminal cases (and of course protective orders are ubiquitous in civil cases as well). Adding to that urgency is the fact that Trump in particular is a defendant under three sets of indictments in two federal and one state court, and may be indicted in another state court, is the subject of ongoing federal grand jury investigations, is already accused of multiple counts of obstruction of justice, and has shown a remarkable, national media-fueled ability to harass potential witnesses. All that, plus Trump appears to be funding legal defenses for co-conspirators. It is a model case for an unusually detailed protective order. What the Special Prosecutor has proposed is modest in light of all of that.
He's just so damn unlikable. We can't give him up! Well I could... Whenever I read DinkyDau's comments I always picture the cartoon character of Hank Hill's father.
I agree with everything Althouse quotes from the mouth of Trump. Succinct!
Based on some other quotes I’ve seen from Trump in NH; I sense a new defamation case against him.
You don't like what he says
Personally, I like the back and forth. I just point out the fallacies. Ignoring arguments doesn't help anyone. I welcome Chuck (and anyone else) commenting with their thoughts. But I want honest debate not talking points. Chuck always ignores me anyway, so I just assume he doesn't like my questions on his arguments.
I don't call Chuck (or anybody) names, etc.
This is your blog Ann and your sandbox I just play here. But I read it every day.
Personally, I read the comments here as a way to develop my own feelings and thoughts on particular issues (especially Constitutional Law issues). My comments are to fully flesh out my position or prediction and I have no illusion that I do a horrible job. If I can't argue for my positions then I can't truly understand them. I've been swayed before by many arguments on here.
Responding to Althouse in comments @9:42am
To be fair, commenters can bandwagon on Trump or with whatever your post might say, because many do come here to simply enjoy your opinion. But to debate requires someone to take the other side. As Peter Hotez won’t make himself available and likely neither will Jack Smith (also Hillary’s lonely and isolated), then people are left with the court jester to square off.
At least that’s how I see the dynamic. Personally, I never found this particular court jester interesting enough to debate. You have others that at least seem to believe what they write. Then again, I tend to only comment once on a post to avoid tit for tat conversations, either joining them or reading them.
I think Trump will force the judge to jail him, and she will take the bait- she won't be able to help herself.
A pity Trump won't be tried with his co-conspirators. I have visions of something like the trial of the Chicago 7. Then ts the non-lawyer defendant, Trump the one most likely to end up gagged.
Why would anyone be satisfied that a scheme to cram through thousands of fraudulent AV applications in one county failed? This was obviously a large, well funded operation. It beggars belief that it was restricted to one county, or one state, and it completely destroys the idea that attempts at voter fraud are rare and minuscule.
Well, this is "Chuck's" blog isn't it ?
I agree with Yancy above. This judge should be in Minnesota. They like angry lefties there.
He's like Rocky.
Trump the underdog!
Trump should keep talking, that always helps Democrats and liberals. However, he cannot use discovery information his lawyers have obtained from SC Smith to threaten or intimidate witnesses. He is not under a gag order, he can keep blowing smoke up his followers asses. On Friday we’ll see what Judge Chutcan will do in regard to the threats he has already made since he was arraigned. He was given a specific warning by the presiding Judge of that arraignment and only a day later he violated it after swearing he would follow her admonition.
Trump is walking into another trap. The DOJ Motion will be granted. Trump will violate it. Contempt hearing. Ruling against Trump. Sent to jail for violating a court order.
In a way, I want Trump to be held in contempt and sent to jail. There would be riots in DC. The MAGA crowd would break him out of jail. America's Bastille.
Chuck aside, why would any sentient being think that the prosecution will abide by the rules and norms that were once taken for granted?
Trump is a marked man and knows it. His best defense is maximum publicity.
I wasn't aware anyone paid attention to Gateway Pundit.
Ann Althouse said...
"You have a post to respond to."
My fault. Apologies.
Judge Chutkan will fix the problem. Her power to rule that Trump will spend his time in jail for contempt of court is unquestionable. But poor Donnie just doesn't understand that he is not in charge of his own criminal court trial and that the prosecution is entitled to restrict what he can talk about in the media. If he doesn't zip his lips, his wrists will be zip-tied on the way to a cell.
Meanwhile, in Fort Pierce, Trump Judge Aileen Cannon had best get on with the Garcia Hearing to determine if Trump's co-defendant lawyers may have conflicting interests. The next stop is the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals if she doesn't do what should have been done immediately.
Trump will not be sent to jail. This is a game of chicken the government would be well advised to decline.
The charges against Trump have nothing to do with free speech. Read the indictment. The charges resulted from Trump’s conduct.
The indictment is bullshit. That's the point. You continuing to run your mouth doesn't change it.
Trump is walking into another trap. The DOJ Motion will be granted. Trump will violate it. Contempt hearing. Ruling against Trump. Sent to jail for violating a court order.
Trump will be fine. It's win-win. He doesn't go to jail and he's got free reign. He goes to jail and its the equivalent of nuclear war in the political sphere.
Dave, does any federal judge get to muzzle political opponents or only the judges in DC?
"What's up with that dynamic? You don't like what he says, but you all stop what you're doing and make it your business to give him maximum response."
"You all"? No, not all. I skip over chuck's posts. I bet others do, too.
I believe the former losing president will push to get either sent to jail or gagged so he can whine some more and claim his freedoms are being taken away, and all the kings' men will hoot and holler. A very see through plan like most of that fella's stuff. Please send him your $$$ I believe he really likes that. See through like cellophane!At least he'll lock up nomination with the next RICO charges from Georgia next week, thank goodness for that, the crowds will cheer so.
And because Trump's lawyers are going to get all of that, a protective order is needed.
It is a gag order though. He can't talk about things. Calling it a protective order is just whitewashing the issue. You said it wasn't a gag order then admit that it restricts his speech 2 sentences later.
Here's an example of why this might be an issue. Pence is considered to be highly likely as a witness in this case. Pence is running against Trump currently. In your ideal protective order, is Trump not allowed to talk about Pence on the campaign trail? At a rally? To CNN? What about in a debate? What about to Pence on a debate stage?
If there is anybody that should be entitled to the full protection of the First Amendment it is the current front runner for the highest office in the land.
"If there is anybody that should be entitled to the full protection of the First Amendment it is the current front runner for the highest office in the land."
We're all entitled to the that protection, Brian. No matter who we are. But if they can succeed in shutting him up, then it will be much easier to shut us up. The Bill of Rights will no longer apply to anyone the state disapproves of.
They have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will go after Trump, and anyone who provides him with legal or political support, with any possible charges and "legal" inventions, regardless of how absurd, unfounded or inconsistent with the prior application and understanding of law.
If the Russian Collusion bullshit and the endless Mueller Investigation (replete with charges of "Obstruction" whenever Trump attempted, however feebly, to counter it) haven't convinced you, the tax return fiasco (remember that?) and the Mar a Lago Raid (and the bullshit charges from that) ought to.
This would be a joke if it wasn't so goddamn serious. They want to crush him so that they have control.
Trump isn't playing their game. What at this point does he have to lose? They might throw him in jail? They are going to do it regardless.
I fear for our country.
Sent to jail for violating a court order.
========
will they cancel vendors of burger and pizza orders ? on his menu?
cheers and chants of “bullshit.”
need a bullshit tag!
wild chicken at 8:51!
It doesn't matter if Trump is right or wrong, truth-telling or lying his ass off.
He's got free speech rights.
Attempts by unelected federal judges to silence him should be met with disdain and jeering by the American people. Period.
I guess it's a "civility bullshit" tag, not a "bullshit" tag.
so maybe narrower than the crowd who joyfully chants "bullshit!" at the federal elites who are trying to silence Trump (and them)
Brian at 5:35
holy fuck man
it's an attempt at a prior restraint
this is a 9-0 fucking Supreme Court ruling
unelected district court judges who think they are god and want to play god
might be in for a rude awakening
people are watching, motherfuckers, and you are violating your oaths of office to follow our Constitution
you dumb fucks in power need a refresher course in ConLaw
or do some CLE on the Althouse blog
embarrassing!
Post a Comment