August 9, 2023

"I believe that what can be achieved on Jan. 6 is not simply to keep Biden below 270 electoral votes. It seems feasible that the vote count can be conducted so that at no point will Trump be behind in the electoral vote count..."


"... unless and until Biden can obtain a favorable decision from the Supreme Court upholding the Electoral Count Act as constitutional, or otherwise recognizing the power of Congress (and not the president of the Senate) to count the votes."

The false electors scheme... involved lawyers working on his campaign’s behalf across seven states, [and] dozens of electors willing to claim that Mr. Trump — not Mr. Biden — had won their states.... 
As he had done in the earlier memo, Mr. Chesebro cited writings by a Harvard Law School professor, Laurence H. Tribe, to bolster his argument that the deadlines and procedures in the Electoral Count Act are unconstitutional and that state electoral votes need not be finalized until Congress’s certification on Jan. 6. 
Mr. Chesebro had worked as Mr. Tribe’s research assistant as a law student and later helped him in his representation of Vice President Al Gore during the 2000 election. 
Calling his former mentor “a key Biden supporter and fervent Trump critic,” Mr. Chesebro cited what he described as Mr. Tribe’s legal views, along with writings by several other liberals as potential fodder for a messaging strategy. It would be “the height of hypocrisy for Democrats to resist Jan. 6 as the real deadline, or to suggest that Trump and Pence would be doing anything particularly controversial,” he wrote....

Yesterday, Professor Tribe published an essay decrying Cheseboro's interpretation of the position taking back in 2000. Tribe asserts that his argument was specific to the Florida law at play in Bush v. Gore.

[And] Mr. Chesebro cited a constitutional treatise in which Mr. Tribe wrote that a past Congress cannot bind the actions of a later Congress, which Mr. Chesebro used to buttress his proposal that parts of the Electoral Count Act are unconstitutional. But Mr. Tribe wrote that what he meant was Congress can pass new legislation changing such a law....

Whatever the details of what Professor Tribe really meant, the question now is whether the Chesebro interpretation is so manifestly wrong as a legal theory that Trump could not creditably rely on it in fighting, legally, for a victory in the 2020 election. Chesebro, who worked directly with Tribe, was citing Tribe as an authority and purporting to know what Tribe meant and presenting this legal theory as something that could be pursued legally. It's supposed to be a crime for Trump to have relied on that? 

FROM THE COMMENTS: Ampersand said:
Tribe's legal theorizing always has as its first step the conclusion that the Dems win. The second step is to reason backwards from the conclusion, and the third step is to rearrange the sequence to create the appearance that he didn't start with the conclusion. 
Chesebro jumbled it up. What a dope.

74 comments:

Lem Vibe Bandit said...

Political strategery sessions are now conspiratorial?

Tina Trent said...

Does this tell us Trump illegally colluded with his attorney, or were the attorneys kicking around legal strategies?

Sebastian said...

"It's supposed to be a crime for Trump to have relied on that?"

This is not a question-question, is it? Trump is a living breathing crime. QED.

mezzrow said...

Are these folks at the DOJ managing the Pac-12 TV deal as well?

Hmmm...

rehajm said...

Of course there’s a hard core leftie arguing for the very thing they now want us to believe is criminal to believe. All you armchair former lawyers have your fun now but in the end it will be a majority of DC idiots what will find him guilty of…something, anything, and all y’all will throw your profession/former profession under the bus and defer to their judgement instead of forcefully objecting before the fact.

Cowards…

Ampersand said...

Tribe's legal theorizing always has as its first step the conclusion that the Dems win. The second step is to reason backwards from the conclusion, and the third step is to rearrange the sequence to create the appearance that he didn't start with the conclusion.
Chesebro jumbled it up. What a dope.

gilbar said...

It's supposed to be a crime for Trump to have relied on that?

Let's Be Clear.
The Crime is to NOT support the democrat party. That is a Felony.. It is punishable by DEATH!
ALL people (democrats, republicans independents, children, illegal aliens, dead people)..
MUST support the democrat party; THIS IS THE LAW OBEY!

BUMBLE BEE said...

TIMELY...
https://youtu.be/9n0rywEq9z8

narciso said...

oh noes, anyways

Brian said...

It appears to me that the DOJ theory is that any questioning of the election and attempting to adjudicate any issues is by its nature fraud against the United States. Once "someone" declares it's over, it's over. That someone could be the Secretary of State for the state of Georgia or various district courts not finding standing, or the major media empires.

The results of the electoral college have to be ratified by Congress. They have to be the party with the final say. That ratification can't be simply a ceremonial duty. If it were, then what would stop 535 members of the electoral college from going against the will of the people? They are people after all and subject to bribes, coercion, and extortion and even appeals by celebrities.

Congress is assenting to the Electoral College vote by its ratification. If they can assent they can dissent, and therefore the act of lobbying one's elected representatives cannot be fraud against the United States.

I have this funny hypothetical I've been tossing in my head with all the recent news about alternate electors being indicted.

Imagine a band calling themselves "Alternate Slate" that produces a song outlining who they felt won the most recent election. Can they be indicted for fraud against the United States? It's the ultimate First Amendment test. If you say that a band can do it because it's just music, but political parties can't because its politics then you've gutted the foundations of the First Amendment.

It reminds me of the DeCSS case: if you can put it on a tee shirt it's speech.

tim maguire said...

It would be “the height of hypocrisy for Democrats to resist Jan. 6 as the real deadline, or to suggest that Trump and Pence would be doing anything particularly controversial

Yes, well, Laurence Tribe...

Meade said...

I’m on a personal mission to change “cheese head” to “cheese bro”

rhhardin said...

The Constitution isn't consistent with convention any longer but those are the rules. VEEP made a few episodes out of it, when owing to various exceptions happening the President was chosen by some unexpected person. The premise of the show being making fun of the shallowness of the voters, no special dysfunction occurred.

The problem is the unauditable election, no chains of custody, counting by computers. Courts bailed out, leaving the only place of remedy in Congress, whatever those rules may be.

Breezy said...

False electors when they are Republicans. Alternate electors when they are Democrats. Got it.

jim said...

This tells us that Trump and his "attornies" were kicking around legal strategies, liked this one where they torpedo the electoral count at the last moment, and went ahead with it.

Mountain Maven said...

I am hoping a GOP president will pardon or commute a bunch of the J6 convicted.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

“the question now is whether the Chesebro interpretation is so manifestly wrong as a legal theory that Trump could not creditably rely on it in fighting, legally, for a victory in the 2020 election”

The Chesebro memo addresses the question of whether the recount deadline was December 8, December 14, or January 6.

I think that is a legitimate question, but rather beside the point as to whether there was a conspiracy to fraudulently submit Trump’s alternate-reality-elector votes to Congress. No governor, state legislature, or court certified those votes. It seems to me that Trump’s best defense is that they were too fake to be fraudulent. We’ll see if he makes that argument. I suppose Trump could also argue that they were submitted for disinformation purposes only, under his extra-constitutional right to lie, but the fact that he was urging that they be counted seems to undercut that argument.

The Chesebro memo also does not address delaying the January 6 session of Congress to go back to the state legislatures. So it would seem that there is no advice of counsel defense on the charges of obstructing the proceeding, nor on the voting rights charge.

Ann Althouse said...

"The Chesebro memo addresses the question of whether the recount deadline was December 8, December 14, or January 6."

You've linked to a Nov. 18, 2020 memo.

Today's NYT article is about a Dec. 6, 2020, memo from Chesebro.

Chesebro is a man of many memos.

Narayanan said...

Blogger Meade said...
I’m on a personal mission to change “cheese head” to “cheese bro”
======
i approve this message says ...[improves lubriciation]
Robert Augustus Chesebrough (/ˈtʃiːzbroʊ/;[1] January 9, 1837 – September 8, 1933) was an American chemist who discovered petroleum jelly—which he marketed as Vaseline—and founder of the Chesebrough Manufacturing Company.

Narayanan said...

is January 6 really calendrical deadline? or can they keep extending 'the-legislative-day' till whenever??

Buckwheathikes said...

Brian asked: "What would stop 535 members of the electoral college from going against the will of the people?"

Nothing. That's what.

If Trump wins a landslide election in 2024 with so many votes that even CNN cannot deny that he actually won based on reported returns (which of course they'll delay and deflect for as long as possible) then and ONLY THEN will CNN and MSNBC (the Deep State) begin reporting to the American people that the Presidential election they saw is in fact only ceremonial.

It's the Electoral College - not the popular vote - which elects our President. We may vote in a popular vote to express our sentiment in order to guide those Electoral College electors, but they are legally able to vote for whichever candidate they wish.

And any attempt to force them to vote one way or another is a felony. Anyone attempting to coerce an Electoral College voter would immediately be arrested.

They're not going to let Trump take the Presidency. Period. End of Sentence. NEVER.

By whatever means are necessary, they will deny him the Presidency.

Icluding killing him if necessary.

Paul said...

Ah a thoughtcrime! That is double bad ungood.

More on how Democrats view this...

https://lithub.com/all-of-the-passages-in-1984-that-relate-to-you-right-now/

MadTownGuy said...

Meade said...

"I’m on a personal mission to change “cheese head” to “cheese bro”."

I like it, but will it fly when no one knows what a 'bro' is these days?

walter said...

rehajm said...
Of course there’s a hard core leftie arguing for the very thing they now want us to believe is criminal to believe.
--
"Four congressional Democrats sent a letter to the owners of Dominion Voting Systems and cited several problems that “threaten the integrity of our elections,” including “vote switching.”

In a December 2019 letter to Dominion Voting Systems, which has been mired in controversy after a human error involving its machines in Antrim County, Michigan, resulted in incorrect counts, Democratic Sens. Elizabeth Warren, Ron Wyden, and Amy Klobuchar and congressman Mark Pocan warned about reports of machines “switching votes,” “undisclosed vulnerabilities,” and “improbable” results that “threaten the integrity of our elections.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/democratic-senators-warned-of-potential-vote-switching-by-dominion-voting-machines-prior-to-2020-election

Original Mike said...

Brian said…"Congress is assenting to the Electoral College vote by its ratification. If they can assent they can dissent, and therefore the act of lobbying one's elected representatives cannot be fraud against the United States."

I have refused to spend my dwindling time on Earth to puzzling over an obviously corrupt system, so I am not up on the details. But my brain has more than once brought this question to my attention (before I chastised it, and set it on a more fruitful course).

If a process is in place to ratify the election results, how can it be impermissible to reject ratification? What is the point to such a process?

Leland said...

If Trump can’t talk about the case, why are all these leaks on the case against him happening in the media. It is like Trumps is being told not to defend himself in the court of public opinion, while his prosecutors can release whatever they want to make him look bad to the public. Lots of people mentioning Watergate these days, and oddly enough, this is exactly what the FBI did back then. The number 2 guy at the FBI, Mark Felt, leaked information, that likely would be inadmissible in court, to the press to attack Nixon in the public arena.

Earnest Prole said...

Everyone here believes the Vice President, acting as the President of the Senate, has the unilateral right to reject electoral votes on January 6 — unless of course her name is Kamala Harris.

I Shouldn’t Have Left the White House said...

Chesebro said he was “not necessarily advising” adopting the “controversial” plan. You know it’s a problem when your lawyer is not willing to say he’s advising you to follow the plan he’s proposing.

Yancey Ward said...

The Electoral Count Act is unconstitutional in the sense that the sitting Congress at the count can't be bound by legislation from a previous Congress, nor can the courts enforce that legislation on that Congress. I cited the relevant portions of the Constitution itself here a few days ago- it simply outlines that the state legislatures get to pick the electors in whatever manner they choose, those electors get together and vote for President and Vice President, and they send their tallies to D.C. to be counted by the President of the Senate (the previous VP) in the presence of Congress.

The implied power is that Congress is in complete control of which slate of electors get accepted for each state on the day of the counting. Things only went wrong in 1876 because Congress refused to follow the Constitution's guidelines and choose the President via state delegation votes when Congress itself couldn't decide which electors to accept for states like South Carolina, Lousiana, and Oregon. The reason will be familiar to those of us today- Democrats controlled the House, but not the Senate, thus Congress couldn't agree on which electors to accept denying both Tilden and Hayes a majority of the electoral vote. At that point, the House should have selected the President via voting by House delegation, but because the Republicans controlled a majority of the delegations, Hayes was going to win via that process, thus the Democrats refused hold that vote. The Electoral Count Act was passed to try to make sure Congress never again faced a decision on which electors to accept, and to delegate away Congress' implicit power to certify which electors to accept on the day of the count.

Now, one can argue that the people who wrote the Constitution never meant for Congress to have the power to accept/decline the electors' votes sent by the electors chosen by the state legislatures. One could argue that it was implied that Congress must accept only the votes of electors chosen by the state legislatures by whatever manner those legislatures chose. However, I think that interpretation is faulty because there must be an authority to recognize the legitimate legislature, and that authority can only be the sitting Congress on the day of the count.

What Trump was trying to do wasn't illegal- it was creative and was going to fail, but it wasn't any more illegal than challenging the electoral slates in Congress itself. Pence was perfectly free to challenge the slates himself, but he was going to get voted down Congress. I guarantee you that if such an election in the future goes against the Democrats, Tribe will right back out there supporting exactly the same kinds of theories that Trump's lawyers were using to challenge the 2020 vote, and everyone knows this, including Larry Tribe.

I Shouldn’t Have Left the White House said...

The conspiracy was plain to see in real time. Trump had lost. Everyone knew he lost. Everyone was telling him he lost. He was losing a court case or more a day. Trump needed confusion and delay. That would let him claim to be the victor and refuse to yield power. He went at it in at least four ways. They hatched what even they called the "fake elector" plot. Trump pressed Pence to break the law and violate the Constitution. They were still pressing him to count fake electors on J6. When he wouldn't, the MAGA mob literally wanted to hang him.

Told there was no fraud, Trump asked his DOJ to just say there was fraud — “me and Congress will do the rest”. Trump pressed state officials in multiple swing states to find him votes or change the results —just cheat for me. His plan to end our democracy failed only because of 5-10 Republican officials. Pence would not play ball and break the law. DOJ officials would not just lie. Republican state officials in Georgia, Arizona, and Michigan would not cheat to undo an election they knew to be fair. That is all that stood against Trump's plan to hold power and to do so by force if needed. They were openly discussing invoking the insurrection act and using the military. How anyone can want to give Trump another chance is beyond me.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Thanks, the December 6 memo does go farther. I see two problems for Trump’s advice of counsel defense:

Chesebro conditioned his discussed course of action in part on, “There is pending, on January 6, in each of the six States, at least one lawsuit, in either federal or state court, which might plausibly, if allowed to proceed to completion, lead to either Trump winning the State or at least Biden being denied the State (of course, ideally by then Trump will have been awarded one or more of the States).” To prove reliance, wouldn’t Trump have to prove that condition was met? Plausibility means in a way that seems reasonable or probable, it’s not enough if there is a lawsuit pending, unreasonable beliefs don’t count.

Chesebro states, “I'm not necessarily advising this course of action”. How does Trump rely on advice of counsel that is “not necessarily” advice?

jim said...

Correction to my earlier comment:

..., and went ahead with it as best they could given their manifest ineptitude.

Moral: if you've bankrupted 3 casinos, don't try to run a coup.

Balfegor said...

Chesebro, who worked directly with Tribe, was citing Tribe as an authority and purporting to know what Tribe meant and presenting this legal theory as something that could be pursued legally. It's supposed to be a crime for Trump to have relied on that?

I don't disagree -- lots of people rely in good faith on bad legal advice, even after shopping around to find a lawyer who will give them the bad legal advice.

That said . . I haven't been following him all that closely but my impression is Larry Tribe's theories have a pretty bad record when actually tested in court. I might be confusing him with Larry Lessig, though.

Saint Croix said...

This is why Hillary destroyed her server

and used BleachBit on it

Chesebro is a lawyer

this is a privileged communication

lawyers discuss all sorts of wacky shit with their clients

it's inadmissible

the fucking Feds did all this raid shit, without warrants, to seize any and every incriminating document they can find

I posit that every fucking president since Nixon -- with the possible exception of Jimmy Carter -- discussed illegal shit with their attorneys.

It's privileged, you damn stupid fuckers

hombre said...

Barbara Boxer would have been pleased.

deepelemblues said...

You might say he's a Memobro

Saint Croix said...

believe me when I say there would be no legal difficulties in figuring out how to prosecute a lot of fucking people for these prosecutions of Trump

due process is a thing and you fuckers in federal agencies are so corrupt.

there will be a radical shake-up of many federal agencies when Republicans are back in power

FBI gone

my prediction

I am right about 60% of the time

deepelemblues said...

I am unaware of any law or precedent that subjectively decided "unreasonable beliefs don't count."

Ann Althouse said...

"To prove reliance, wouldn’t Trump have to prove that condition was met?"

The prosecutor has the burden of proof. Trump only needs to create reasonable doubt.

walter said...

"To prove reliance, wouldn’t Trump have to prove that condition was met?"
Guilty until proven innocent.
Apply that to Comey letting Hildebeast off the hook.

Inga said...

“They hatched what even they called the "fake elector" plot. Trump pressed Pence to break the law and violate the Constitution. They were still pressing him to count fake electors on J6. When he wouldn't, the MAGA mob literally wanted to hang him.”

And when Pence told Trump he didn’t have the Constitutional authority to reject the electoral college votes, Trump told him “You’re too honest”. Right there is evidence of corrupt intent. I’m sure Pence will testify to that conversation… and others he had with Trump.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Rich said..."The conspiracy was plain to see in real time. Trump had lost. Everyone knew he lost." (emphasis added)

Well, I can stop reading right there. Thanks for putting that up front, Chuck.

Gusty Winds said...

This newly revealed memo is a leak from the prosecution to Maggie Habermann, correct?

Gusty Winds said...

I love how on Twitter Habermann says...."But there was a third that was sent between those two, which first came to light with last week’s indictment. The Times has obtained that Dec 6 memo."

Obtained = given to the NYTs by the prosecution while they are trying to muzzle Trump.

tim in vermont said...

OK, I am going to repeat some of what I said in the café last night, because little old me came up with the same arguments on my little old lonesome about binding future Congresses, it's just the plain text of the Constitution. I wonder if our lefties here can explain how following the actual unamended text of it can be considered a crime? Democrats have been demanding that electors flip for as long as I can remember. Democrats have objected to electors in the House. They say it's different, but only due to the 'D' after their name is it different. Maybe that's what the 'D' stands for: "It's different when we do it."

Plain text of the Constitution: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress

Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections... The first power granted to the House by the US Constitution. Notice how it doesn't say that the House in 2021 gets to judge for all future Houses, it plainly says "each House."

This is why I assume that the trolls on here trying to insinuate (isn't insinuating things not true about our elections a crime now?) that what Trump tried to do was somehow illegal, are simply fifty-centers, who are not actually interested in honest debate, but are just trying to score points with constant obfuscation of the simple facts, and that muddying the waters, and confusing people on the actual law is their real strategy.


walter said...

I'm sure it's nothing.
"Guns, Burner Phones and Fake Registrations – The Buried Michigan Voter Fraud Scandal: GBI Strategies Director Gary Bell Had 70 Organizations Operating in 20 States in 2020 – TIED TO JOE BIDEN CAMPAIGN"
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/muskegon-voter-fraud-scandal-gbi-strategies-director-gary/

Original Mike said...

"Everyone knew he lost."

Another thought that has come unbidden to my brain; how am I to know that Trump lost? Because the media told me so? I saw a mainstream media script reader declaring 2 days after election-day that the election had been free from fraud. Two days! They had no conceivable way to know that only 2 days out. They obviously didn't intend to even investigate. They were simply going to declare it because they got the "result" they wanted.

tim in vermont said...

It's a Democrat trap to even imagine that there is any requirement, outside the minds of his political enemies, and unsupported by the law at the time, why did the Democrats change the law after the fact again? But it's a Democrat trap to even imagine that there is any requirement to "prove reliance." As if it's a thought crime of some kind to believe something even if lawyers disagree with you, and a speech crime to say it out loud.

There is this effort by Democrats to bind free thought and free speech in ever more constricting knots, like the Lilliputians bound Gulliver, pretty much for the same reasons Swift gave. It's up to us to reject these kinds of assertions out of hand.

Richard Dolan said...

"the question now is whether the Chesebro interpretation is so manifestly wrong as a legal theory that Trump could not creditably rely on it in fighting, legally, for a victory in the 2020 election."

Not the question I would be asking as Trump's attorney. "Manifestly wrong ... could not creditably rely" is either a recklessness standard or a variant on the reasonable-person standard, but neither has any role to play here. Think I'd start with "Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people ... to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Trump had a grievance -- that's a purely subjective matter -- and it makes no difference whether others thought his grievance was total BS. He petitioned the powers-that-be in various state governments for redress. As it happens, none of those governmental players found any substance to his grievance, and did nothing about it. But exercising a First Amendment right to seek redress for a grievance is not a crime, regardless of who it came out. The exception is for attempted fraud on the government, but "fraud' means a scheme to obtain money or property. Nothing like that involved in Trump's electoral fantasies.

It would be a lawyer's (lawprof's) dream if the Trump prosecution got off into the netherworld of the Noerr-Pennington doctrine, so far from its antitrust origins. But it's much more interesting, and likely to be productive for the defense, than asking whether Chesebro's legal theories were so crazy that even Trump knew they were bonkers.

If you don't like that one, try art. II, Sec. 3: "he shall take care that the laws are faithfully executed." In doing that, a president needs legal advice, and Trump sought it out. The constitutional duty is imposed on the president alone, and he must decide what "faithfully executed" means in order to carry out is constitutional duty. And Trump wasn't
the first and won't be the last to seek the kind of legal advice he wanted to hear before seeking it. Makes no difference whether others agree with that legal advice or deem it even minimally persuasive. Carping from the sidelines doesn't count under art. II, sec. 3.

tim in vermont said...

It's interesting that the Michigan State Police found evidence of massive fraud in the Michigan election, and then the DoJ came in and took over the cover-up, err, I mean "investigation," and the story simply disappeared.

We. thought that the FBI involvement with Whitey Bulger was corrupt, that was penny ante compared to the corruption of today's FBI.

"Bell Had 70 Organizations Operating in 20 States in 2020 – TIED TO JOE BIDEN CAMPAIGN"

"Largest voter fraud organization in history." - Joe Robinette Biden. (actual quote.)

tim in vermont said...

"Everyone knew he lost."

"Nobody I know voted for Nixon."

walter said...

Before the election, Bill Bagpipes Barr expressed significant concern about the integrity of mail in voting. Someone needs to remind him of that.

Leland said...

Everyone here believes the Vice President, acting as the President of the Senate, has the unilateral right to reject electoral votes on January 6

If so, they are wrong except for that other part regarding Kamala Harris. The President of the Senate is presiding over the certification of the electoral votes. Members of Congress may, and have done so in the past often with a D following their name, announce their objections of the certification and debate on whether to certify or not. This was often done and even once before the vote wasn’t certified. This time, debate wasn’t allowed and apparently anybody that planned to raise an objection is potentially a co-conspirator to committing the “criminal” act of their Constitutional authority. It is no different than when Democrats indicted and booked Governor Rick Perry for using his state constitutional powers as governor to veto Democrat preferred legislation. When they can’t win by Democratic means, then Democrats hope they can win by a vote of just 12 handpicked people or less.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

“The prosecutor has the burden of proof. Trump only needs to create reasonable doubt.”

That assumes Trump meets the threshold for presenting an advice of counsel defense. It’s gamble, doesn’t Trump have to waive his attorney client privilege? I still say “too fake to be fraudulent” is his best defense on the conspiracy to defraud charge.

There is definitely an evolution between November 18 Chesebro and December 6 Chesebro. He goes from saying January 6 is the final deadline to setting forth a plan to extend it. And he would get to be questioned by the prosecution about that evolution, assuming he cooperates or is granted immunity.

Chuck said...

walter said...
I'm sure it's nothing.
"Guns, Burner Phones and Fake Registrations – The Buried Michigan Voter Fraud Scandal: GBI Strategies Director Gary Bell Had 70 Organizations Operating in 20 States in 2020 – TIED TO JOE BIDEN CAMPAIGN"
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/muskegon-voter-fraud-scandal-gbi-strategies-director-gary/

This marks the second time today that an Althouse commenter used her comments pages to promote this laughably garbage nonsense. Details of the story from Muskegon were faithfully reported, and then debunked at the time. Afterward, a Michigan state senate investigation, led by a senior Republican state senator, debunked all of the idiotic conspiracy theories in Michigan-2020.

I write only to note the attempt at hijacking the comments page. Why not just write to Althouse and ask her politely if she might be interested in blogging the Gateway Pundit? Or raise the story in a café post? Have some discipline.

Drago said...

Earnest Prole: "Everyone here believes the Vice President, acting as the President of the Senate, has the unilateral right to reject electoral votes on January 6 — unless of course her name is Kamala Harris."

Morgan Freeman Narrator Voice: "Of course, precisely ZERO people "here" have said that or even intimated anything remotely resembling Prole's claim."

Robert Cook said...

"Political strategery sessions are now conspiratorial?"

Aren't they always? I mean, all those locked doors and cigar-smoke-filled rooms, all that booze, all those valises bursting with cash, all those discussions how to lie to and screw the public, all those hookers waiting in limos idling in the parking garages...etc.? Dem or Republican, they're all the same.

Bruce Hayden said...

“It appears to me that the DOJ theory is that any questioning of the election and attempting to adjudicate any issues is by its nature fraud against the United States. Once "someone" declares it's over, it's over. That someone could be the Secretary of State for the state of Georgia or various district courts not finding standing, or the major media empires”

One of the problems was that the person officially certifying the election was very often up to their ears in the corrupt election fraud - most notably AZ Sec of State (now governor, through even more egregious election fraud, that she again certified) Katy Hobbs. So, several state legislatures, with Republican legislatures, certified their own slates of electors - based on the Constitution giving them, and them alone, control over selection of electors.

Of course, the problem here is that many, if not most, of the Republicans in many of these swing states knew that probably outcome determinative election fraud had given Biden the win in their states (and maybe 5 Senate seats). The MSM, Dem politicians, etc, were telling everyone to get over it. They had cheated and won, and nothing anyone could do about it - which turned out to be true, since there was no way to legally challenge the fraudulent election counts in those 6 states in a timely manner.

tim in vermont said...

Everybody knows, secretly, that the Democrats and their lawyers, and their media are always right. Anything else is wrongthink and invites a stretch in prison.

tim in vermont said...

Nowhere in Chuck’s link is the allegation discussed in the Gateway Pundit article addressed. The GP quotes the logs of the Michigan State Police, the “debunking,” at least the one Chuck points to, is remarkably incurious on that one.

Jupiter said...

Ooooh! Crime-text!

MountainMan said...

Interesting commentary today from Paul Mirengoff (formerly of Powerline, now writing on Substack):

Was Rutherford B. Hayes a Criminal?

Buckwheathikes said...

Ann Althouse claimed, without citing any evidence: "The prosecutor has the burden of proof. Trump only needs to create reasonable doubt"

Not according to Nancy Pelosi. According to Nancy Pelosi, writing on Twitter (my evidence presented), Trump is being allowed a trial so that he can prove his innocence.

What say you, Ann? Which of you is the LIAR?

MountainMan said...

I had almost forgotten about this but I found a copy of the report using Google. It is an interesting read, especially the scenario where Trump wins with a substantial EC victory. It's not viewed as legitimate if he doesn't win the "popular vote."

The Transition Integrity Project

Gusty Winds said...

Robert Cook said...Dem or Republican, they're all the same.

Trump is neither Dem nor Republican. That's why they all hate him, and his base loves him.

But since the GOPe is filled with a bunch of capitulating, war mongering pussies, Trump saw an open door there...

Brian said...

If a process is in place to ratify the election results, how can it be impermissible to reject ratification? What is the point to such a process?

It's worse than that, not only is it impermissible to reject ratification, it's criminal to seek rejection for any reason.

Anna Keppa said...
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Kevin said...

Everyone here believes the Vice President, acting as the President of the Senate, has the unilateral right to reject electoral votes on January 6 — unless of course her name is Kamala Harris.

It has not been shown to the satisfaction of a majority of Americans that Kamala Harris can count.

Inga said...
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Mikey NTH said...

Lawyers should be concerned about this. If it is illegal for a client to act on advice from a minority perspective, does that make it illegal to give advice from a minority perspective?
If so, does that then make it illegal to challenge existing law or court precedent? Plessy v Ferguson was once the law, after all.

By the by, I do recall many calls made by celebrities and others for electors to change their votes in late 2016. Is that now illegal?

walter said...

C(h)uck!
When I click on your link I get:
"We're working on it!
We're having trouble displaying the page you're looking for.
We apologize, and expect to resolve the problem soon."

You must be very busy posting this!
I bet it's killer, being in The Atlantic and all..

walter said...

And for reference:
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
3/4/16, 4:46 PM

Ann Althouse said...
Chuck, you're doing clutter. You're causing me (and I presume others) to just have to scroll to get past your long and repetitive stuff. You need to change what you are doing or you will become one of the small group of people I call bad faith commenters, whose posts I delete without reading whenever I see them. I'm quite serious. You need to cut way back and keep it short. Stop repeating yourself. Everyone is bored and you are not cute. And don't argue with me in the comments. Stop doing clutter.
8/3/17, 2:16 PM

Greg the Class Traitor said...

If that's a crime, then everyone on ether Biden team involved in Biden's "Eviction Moratorium" needs to go to jail, including Biden (remember, this is for something Trump did as President)

And everyone at the Obama Admin who was involved with their "President declares the Senate in recess, and makes recess appointments" scam needs to go to jail, too.

This is a game anyone can play. And since the Democrats are far more corrupt and willing to trample the US Constitution, and far bigger liars ("if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"), you're going to provide a lot better fodder

Greg the Class Traitor said...

"Everyone knew he lost."

In GA the Fulton County Democrats running the vote count kicked all observers on the grounds they were done counting for the night, then once they saw everyone was gone they immediately started "counting" again.

Before they did this, the NYT Needle had GA at "Trump is going to win". After they did that, the Needle moved to "Biden has a 51% chance of winning".

So long as Democrats et al treat this obvious fraud as not fraud, I have to believe that all the other close races were equally fraudulent.

So no, neither I nor any other sane person who paid attention to the 2020 election "knows" that Trump lost