🚨BREAKING: The Paul Pelosi bodycam video has been released.
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) January 27, 2023
Here is the full video. pic.twitter.com/Z254Q8NGIM
January 27, 2023
Painful to see — but here is the attack on Paul Pelosi you'd been trying to visualize.
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77 comments:
Well..that's not the way it was initially described at all. I am much more sympathetic to Mr. Pelosi than I thought I would be.
The cocktail Paul's holding is a nice touch.
It's just like they described it! Holy shit, that was insane.
About the way i visualized it.
Oh my God, that first one was a vicious swing. Pelosi is lucky those cops were fast and strong.
Weird. Why is Pelosi in his underwear? There is more to this story than is apparent from the body cam.
In his undershorts, a drink in one hand, the other trying to keep the hammer in the madman's grip, in check. All while telling the cops everything's cool, 'Hi Guys, how are ya?". Nothing to see here, move on, huh. I'm a little surprised the cops didn't react quicker, but not in a position to criticize it. I can see why Pelosi wanted to quash its release.
The frankness of this footage seems somehow sadly gay
The glory that was Frisco is from a another day
I've been terribly alone and forgotten in Manhattan
I'm going home to my pridefest by the Bay
I left my pants in San Francisco
High on a hill, I set my loincloth free
To be where little cable cars climb halfway to the stars
I'm a John, my gay lover's crazy, I don't care
My pants wait there in San Francisco
Above the heroin fueled crimespree
When I come home to you, San Francisco
I'm uninhibited and free
When I come home to you, San Francisco
I'll be getting hammered by the sea
That's really awful.
Exactly as described by the local NBC reporter who was fired for reporting accurately. This story is too weird. But the attempt to make partisan hay by blaming Republicans is, at least, over it seems.
Paul Pelosi: Who are you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes!
Cops did a great job. Acted very quickly and very athletically.
I watched a ton of these kinds of videos when I was on a police review board. The stationary ones from the holding cells are easier to understand.
I'll bet everyone watching this was making a conversational documentary in their minds whilst watching.
Now, if we had the other cop's video we could really confuse ourselves because a lot of the time it looks different.
-XC
That didn't enlighten me very much. Watching it seems no less strange than hearing about it. It certainly doesn't support the left-wing narrative, I can see why they wanted to hide this, but what does it support?
is there guest appearance by Epstein [did not kill himself]
It looked like DePape opened the door and that he was holding Pelosi hostage.
He got agitated and whacked Pelosi after the cops told him to drop the hammer.
I would like to hear how Paul Pelosi describes the events of that night. Will we ever know?
guest [ghost]
Pelosi had one hand on the hammer and a drink in the other hand. Who opened the door? Also, why did the assailant break into the house if he were Pelosi’s lover? There is a video of him breaking through the glass door with what looks like a hammer.
How'd the guy get in there in the first place, again?
I'll pass on watching.
Weird. If I were Pelosi I sure as hell wouldn't have had the drink in my hand. I'd want 2 free hands to protect myself. I also would have exited the house as soon as I opened the door.
I'm not watching that. Geeze. All the stupid conspiracy theories surrounding this were totally unhinged.
I don't understand why this wasn't released sooner. It would have cleared some things up. The attacker wasn't naked or even in his underwear, though maybe he should get the "men in shorts" tag. Pelosi didn't return to the attacker as had been described. They came to the door together. Who opened the door was unclear. Pelosi had his hands full, and it appeared that the attacker had both hands on the hammer the whole time. However, between this video and the drunk driving video, it looks like Pelosi has an alcohol problem.
At least he didn’t spill his Gin+Tonic. Points for that, I guess…
"There is more to this story than is apparent from the body cam."
By God you're right! Someone should oughta look into it! 🤪
Well, that video clears everything up!
It's almost as if the media were lying to us, and branding anybody who questioned their lies as liars themselves... Naaah! We can trust them, whatever they say.
It's almost as if the media were lying to us, and branding anybody who questioned their lies as liars themselves... Naaah! We can trust them, whatever they say.
ChatGPT assures me that the media has layers of fact checkers to avoid inaccurate reporting
"It's important to note that most reputable media outlets have an editorial process and fact-checking system in place to ensure the accuracy of their reporting and to guard against bias."
So the video is prolly fake.
Critter said...
Weird. Why is Pelosi in his underwear? There is more to this story than is apparent from the body cam.
That's not the weird part. There's no law that says you can't sit in your own home in your underwear and drink a cocktail. The weird part is the attempt to coverup what happened.
Don't let crazy in your house. Even if he's got a giant schlong.
If there's a hammer in one hand and a drink in the other, who called the cops?
Initial descriptions of the video made it sound as though Pelosi came to the door alone and then for some reason walked back to the assailant. A lot of commenters here took this as a basis for concluding that Pelosi and the other man were lovers. Actually seeing the video makes clear that they were never apart, and Pelosi was always under threat.
Looks like DePape did break in to the Pelosi house. Fox News has surveillance video.
The cocktail Paul's holding is a nice touch.
I seen to recall one account stating that the attacker demanded a glass of water.
Why is Pelosi in his underwear?
He says that he was awakened by the assailant standing over his bed, so presumably what he's wearing is what he was sleeping in.
I’m going with Scott Adams here. Drop the partisanship.
Mr. Pelosi handled this about as well as any 82 year old man could.
No wonder Nancy Pelosi didn't want the video released. It completely blows up the "explanation" narrative. No 'splainin' necessary anymore.
Forget about it... It's San Francisco. Goes on all the time. Nothing new. Defund the police why don't ya. Goes on all the time. Every city. Mass killings Chicago every weekend. Answer the door at 2:30 A.M. unarmed, you get what you get.
I watched the video and listened to the 911 call. I think this does a great deal to refute the more absurd claims that have been made. On the 9-11 call, I think Paul Pelosi sounds very much like a man who has been taken hostage by a loon, taking advantage of an opportunity to call 9-11 while trying hard not to antagonize the loon who's threatening him with a hammer.
The 9-11 operator sounds like she's never been trained on dealing with a hostage who can't speak freely.
Prior to watching the video and listening to the call, I was very skeptical of the official version of the events. Having seen it first-hand, I'm much more persuaded that this was what it appeared to be, a lunatic breaking into a powerful person's home for reasons only that lunatic can ever really understand.
Caveat that I have not watched all the security camera and other videos or fully reviewed the time-line.
Weird. Why is Pelosi in his underwear?
I’ve been going to bed in my underwear for every one of my 73 years.
If you think that only liberals can be unspeakable cruel and stupid, check out the comments in Instapundit on this one.
Morons gloating over a hammer attack on an 82 year old man.
I don't want anybody to get hit it the head with a hammer. But the fact that liberal shitheads used this attacker as somehow reflective of MAGA/Tea Party movement is sick.
Fuck all of them.
I thought this happened at around 2:30 in the morning. Do most people when someone breaks into their house stop to first fix themselves a alcoholic drink? I would go with first my firearm, next some clothes (at least my robe) and then maybe a bit later a cup of coffee in addition to calling the police. What am I missing that makes the situation an "oh, this is totally normal" moment?
Really disturbing. I can understand why he'd be in his underwear, but why the glass in his hand? It is suggestive of a more cordial situation.
I watched it first without sound and just paying attention to upper torso. What I saw fit a Pelosi friendly description. There is no question that once the hammer assault began, it was a bad ending for Paul Pelosi.
I watched again with sound. I'm not hearing any distress from Pelosi. I don't understand at all holding the glass of liquid (water, alcohol, whatever, why is he holding it) to answer the door nor keeping that hand holding the glass and doorknob while trying to control the hammer with one hand.
The body cam is good for the officers, because they responded the way I would expect.
If I had my wishes, I'd want an interior surveillance cam for the previous, maybe, two minutes.
Going from the moron's arrival--he got let in how?--to Pelosi's call, thence to the door opening, all curious.
That said, none of it has anything to do with the assault as a criminal matter.
And the moron is looking at the cops...and then takes a swing.
Does Miguel get his two weeks' pay back?
Or does NBC's being outed get him fired?
Here a video showing the assailant bashing in a glass door of the Pelosi home with a hammer.
Miguel Almaguer, the NBC reporter suspended for reporting the news, was back on air last night. His story was about a black bear who found a motion-sensitive camera in the wild near Boulder and took 400 selfies. Interesting timing.
Horrible, horrible video. So close to a safe ending when he's brutally attacked. The cops reacted quickly after the first blow but I wish they had been on alert and ready to intervene before, especially when he refused their order to drop the hammer. They just seemed surprised instead.
****
Also I want to give full and serious credit to those who were skeptical and are reassessing now that they've seen this, the surveillance footage, and the 911 call, which answer every single one of suspicions you had. I said you wouldn't budge even with video evidence and I was wrong, which I'm happy about.
For those still clinging to the bullshit, still asking the same questions now clearly answered (how did he get in? Uh, broke a window with a hammer on camera), still wondering how you could be in underwear at 2:30 in the morning when a guy breaks a window to get into your house, talking about a "cocktail" (that's either a big glass of vodka, or it's water), unable to hear "distress" on the 911 call or in this video: you, and the many people like you across the political spectrum who absolutely refuse to let reality interrupt their fever pitch fantasies, are dragging us all down.
Hadn't seen that vid Inga. Thanks.
Is it me or does the guy look like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons?
After seeing the break in video and hearing the 911 call, the police body cam video makes sense to me. PP was obviously trying to keep the invader calm and unalarmed, perhaps PP offered him a drink to talk things over while waiting for help to arrive.
"Prior to watching the video and listening to the call, I was very skeptical of the official version of the events. Having seen it first-hand, I'm much more persuaded that this was what it appeared to be, a lunatic breaking into a powerful person's home for reasons only that lunatic can ever really understand."
Yeah. Me too. After watching it a few times. Still. I have to keep reminding myself that he's just as corrupt as she is.
Well after listening to the 911 call and seeing the video showing "David" breaking in the only question is why was any of this was concealed.
All of my sympathy is to Paul Pelosi.
It's clearly a break in.
I don't know how many more clues Pelosi could have given 911. " I don't his name. " ' Is this the capitol police." "He's telling me to hang up." "I don't know this gentleman but he wants to wait for my wife?" At least she did manage to get the address. I hope she's new at her job.
And I don't know what the police could have done much faster. Two guys holding on to a hammer and no one is indicating they are in distress. As soon as they knew who was the perp they reacted, unfortunately it doesn't take long for a man with a hammer to do serious damage.
And Pelosi doesn't know that he won't get shot if he bolts for the door to get away from DePape(?).
I hold no brief for Nancy Pelosi and I think Paul got a break on his DUI because of her, but he's totally an innocent victim in this. I do wonder about him sleeping through what had to be a noisy break in. But he's old, it's probably a large well built house, and maybe he takes sleeping pills, or has a drink or two to sleep.
But I do know why they tried to make a MAGA supporter out of him. Get your story out first and in Churchill's words "a lie is halfway around the world before truth can get out of bed and put its pants on."
And many people on the right side of the aisle fell right into the trap set by lousy reporting as they indulged in all manner of speculation, all of it lurid because why not go sensational.
I will not watch a video of an old man being attacked.
Well, having followed this story and even agreed with some of the conspriracy thinking....
I gotta say the Pelosi's came out of this pretty much exactly as they indicated. I've now seen a clear evidence arc that:
1. Crazy guy broke into back door. I've seen evidence he's crazy and I've seen evidence he broke in the back door.
2. Crazy guy was dressed and Paul Pelosi looks like how someone might be dressed for bed. He has a glass of liquid in his hand but we don't know why.
3. They answered the door together and the elderly man appeared to be trying to keep things calm and cool while preventing crazy dude with a hammer from sudden movement.
......
For once, early reporting was pretty darn close to accurate.
Paul Pelosi's story seems quite believable. A powerful young man with a hammer was threatening him and so Pelosi did not state exactly what was happening to 911 but tried, successfully, to attract their attention. He also tried to calm the attacker by a semblance of normality - answering the door, drink in hand. I don't think the two had any real interaction that's being hushed up.
What's being hushed up is that this attacker in sitting in jail while other brutal attackers in San Francisco and elsewhere, where Soros-DA's reign, are being released back on to the streets.
Some thugs are held in custody as they should be but this only happens if powerful people are attacked as in this case in which the husband of the Speaker of the House was attacked. If the powerless are attacked their attackers are set free to repeat the attack. For example, Here in Milwaukee the Waukesha Christmas Parade killer, Darrell Brooks, had run over his girlfriend, leaving tracks on her leg; had been held for ten days in Milwaukee City; and had then been released, awaiting trial. He went out to Waukesha and attacked her again, threatening her with a knife. The Waukesha police came at once and, in fleeing them, Brooks ran down and killed six people and injured sixty more.
Attack the husband of a powerful politician - stay in jail. Attack a black, single mom - get out of jail free. Is that equal justice? No, but that's life under a Soros-DA, under "police reform."
"..you, and the many people like you across the political spectrum who absolutely refuse to let reality interrupt their fever pitch fantasies, are dragging us all down."
Now do January 6 and Russia Collusion.
Well, that was weird. Why is Pelosi in his underwear? Why is he holding the hammer? Why is he strangely silent when the police open the door?
Its obvious the young man could have taken the hammer out of Pelosi's hand anytime he wished, so why are they both - not in a tug of war - but limply holding on to it? Pelosi doesn't seem to think he's in any danger of attack when the police open the door. Why not?
And above all, why all secrecy? This could have been released right after the attack, and everyone would have sympathized with Pelosi. Instead they stonewalled, and let everyone speculate and their imaginations run wild.
you, and the many people like you across the political spectrum who absolutely refuse to let reality interrupt their fever pitch fantasies, are dragging us all down.
Get over yourself.
Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, on Twitter:
Adam Kinzinger #fella
@AdamKinzinger
Can we please dig up every persons tweet who made fun of this or cast doubt? This was a sick attack and politicians minimizing it suck.
Paul Pelosi attack video released - POLITICO
[Links to Politico story with video.]
Adam, you could start with these several pages of the Althouse blog comments:
October 29, 2022
October 29, 2022
October 30, 2022
October 31, 2022
October 31, 2022
October 31, 2022
December 15, 2022
How about other Althouse commenters? What was your favorite Althouse blog comment on the assault and battery of Paul Pelosi? I'll post some in a separate post to get the party started...
Here are some nominees for "Best Althouse Blog Paul Pelosi Comment":
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gspencer said...
"Just then, the video shows, the intruder takes control, wields the weapon over his head and slams it with full force...."
On Nancy's head.
(A taxpayer can dream, can't he?)
12/15/22, 6:32 AM
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Achilles said...
"Arriving at the home of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, two officers find an intruder and Ms. Pelosi’s husband, Paul, standing calmly, each with a hand on a hammer that the police demand they drop. Just then, the video shows, the intruder takes control, wields the weapon over his head and slams it with full force...."
So they hired Jussie Smollet to stage the attack?
I haven't seen the video come out to the public yet. NBC scrubbed a report where they accidentally let some facts slip like that Pelosi opened the door for police then walked back to DePape.
How convenient that they waited for the police to get there. Everything was calm until the police got there.
Of course.
A Full force with a hammer to the head means death for someone of Pelosi's age.
This is a hoax from start to finish.
12/15/22, 8:45 AM
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Dave Begley said...
The County of San Franciso will defer to the federal government on this criminal case. DOJ will cover everything up. Corruption at its finest.
But half the country knows - or thinks it knows - what happened here. Nancy Pelosi has been living a corrupt and sick lie for decades. Enjoy your retirement, Nan!
10/31/22, 4:24 PM
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Narr said...
Feds played their trump card--the local Barney Fifes know what side their pensions are buttered on and will say whatever they are told to say, with conviction.
Zip ties, eh? Old Pelosi was into bondage, maybe.
10/31/22, 5:57 PM
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pacwest said...
How did DePape get in the house?
DePape's weapon of choice to bring along was a hammer?
Why would he let Pelosi take a private pee in the middle of a home break in?
Why would Pelosi describe him as a friend?
Occam's Razor: Pelosi picked up the wrong dude for some 2am delight while Nancy was away.
10/30/22, 9:31 AM
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Dave Begley said...
If Paul Pelosi is gay, then why did Nancy stay married to him?
10/30/22, 9:49 AM
****
And here are some more nominees for Best Althouse Blog Paul Pelosi Comments:
Michael K said...
The phenomenon of old men with lots of money going over to the gay side is not rare. Malcolm Forbes is one example. Maybe it is a cure for ED.
10/30/22, 11:21 AM
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Maynard said...
NBC reported that DePape was in the bedroom with Paul Pelosi. Pelosi went onto the bathroom where his phone was charging and called 911.
There was a third person in the house who let the police in. "Curioser and curioser", said Alice ...
Inga now probably believes that DePape was paid by Putin and Trump to have sex with Pelosi and give him a case of monkey pox.
Where is Robert Mueller when we desperately need him?
10/30/22, 12:47 PM
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Martha said...
Word on Capitol Hill is that Pelosi was involved in a gay tryst that went wrong.
I do not know how the Democrats/media can cover this up for long.
10/29/22, 1:07 PM
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Paul J said...
How do you people not know that the guy was Pelosi's date. He didn't get in, he was let in.
10/29/22, 5:30 PM
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Temujin said...
OK, I'll be the one to throw this out there. Paul Pelosi had a 'boy toy'. Nancy is out of town so much. Paul gets lonely. Has girl toys and boy toys. One boy toy got jealous and they had an argument. Things did not go well. So yeah- it's clearly a white supremacist attack.
10/28/22, 10:31 AM
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Yancey Ward said...
I am going to call bullshit on the "break in" part. I am guessing this individual was likely to have been invited in at some point. I think it 50% that Temujin is actually right about what happened. For me, the tell is the lack of information about the assailant.
Why do I think the person was let in? Because I agree with Althouse that it is very unlikely that the Pelosis don't have good security outside and/or inside the house at all times when one of them is there they are there. Also, the assailant was apprehended- that is also telling me that Paul Pelosi knew him.
10/28/22, 10:54 AM
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Michael K said...
Why are you assuming the assailant was a man ? Paul had a woman in the car with him when he did his DUI/accident. She vanished right after. Maybe this was a hooker who got too enthusiastic with the old man.
10/28/22, 10:55 AM
Rt41Rebel said...
@ Michael K
It would also explain why the perp had access to the house.
10/28/22, 11:11 AM
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wendybar said...
This is shaping up to be another attack on Trump supporters. They are now "claiming" that Nancy was targeted, and the assailant kept saying "Where's Nancy"?. Just watch. Nancy needs a false flag to change the election. Sorry, but after the lies about the fake Russian Collusion and the lies about the Capitol being INSURRECTED....I don't believe anything that comes out of that bitches mouth. Sorry, not sorry. I don't trust her and never will. She is a liar who does whatever she has to, to get her way. No matter who did it, they will spin it to be a white supremacist, because there are so many of them running around in San Francisco.
Sorry Paul, but she did this to you. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11365447/Nancy-Pelosi-says-husband-Paul-violently-ASSAULTED-attacker.html
10/28/22, 11:24 AM
****
So what are some of your favorites?
Oh Lord.
Chuck is back.
Lucky us…
I was thinking same thing Yup all the Pelosi conspirators up in here you know the trump won and is still president, J6 was just a peaceful protest, window broke from inside, why is he wearing his underwear, he beat himself in the head, who ya going to believe besides you lying eyes c'mon man, probably don't even know who they are even blind to what reality is just like George Orwell said. Self-delusion is a terrible illness, and it seems that its incurable. You dont need anyone to tell you what to believe it's your brain lose the conspracies come back to reality before its too late. Many Marjorie Taylor Greens and George Santos running loose.
I like the George Santos and MJT conspirators up in here, they always shine. Love the loquacious ones the most, (you know the ones sat next to you in school and just never shut up, muttering about anything and everything) just like the nuns used to say in late 40's early 50's my stomping grounds, "Empty barrels make the most noise" validated.
Chuck, With all due respect, resume attending meetings. You were doing so well. Not the first to fall off the wagon. One day at a time.
"Meade said...
Time is up, Chuck. Leave.
1/13/19, 3:38 PM "
the sad part of this is that an 82 year old with a history of abuse/misuse of alcohol, was apparantly alone in the house without any staff, without security guards, without family, and even without a dog who might bark at an intruder.
In the background, I see steep stairs. What if he lost his footing and fell down them? What if he had a stroke or heart attack or fell and broke his hip? Would he have laid on the floor until the maid arrived at 7 am?
“Chuck, With all due respect, resume attending meetings. You were doing so well. Not the first to fall off the wagon. One day at a time.
"Meade said...
Time is up, Chuck. Leave.
1/13/19, 3:38 PM "
1/27/23, 7:41 PM”
So did Chuck fabricate his comments in this post? That’s why he’s a bad dude. Or is he a bad dude because he told truth that is not allowed to be told here?
Telling the truth re posts/comments here is how I get banned.
But that’s why I think this blog is funny. If Meadehouse was honest/straight this place would be mega-dull. IMHO.
Of course I'm sympathetic to Paul Pelosi. He's 82 and the loon is large and crazy. He handled the situation about as well as you can handle such a situation. The cops did okay. It could have been better, but it sure could have been worse....It's just as well that the cops themselves were bulky and quick. Not a situation where a social worker trained in conflict resolution could have brought things to an amicable conclusion.....I suppose there are lessons here that fit a variety of narratives, both left and right. No one's mind will be changed about Pelosi, pro or con, but he was clearly the victim here and deserves our sympathy and a large mastiff for company late at night.
In the background, I see steep stairs. What if he lost his footing and fell down them? What if he had a stroke or heart attack or fell and broke his hip? Would he have laid on the floor until the maid arrived at 7 am?
@Nancy Reyes, that’s how Ivana Trump died.
Do time stamps mean anything? I read that security cams mostly set time by internet. And one would think it is essential for police body cams. But the window was broken about 5:04 am and the cop one reads 9:31 pm. Both 10/28. And the event happened around 2:20 am. So I am convinced of nothing here.
oh Jesus, it’s Chuck. Chuck explains Trump in nutshell. He deserves MAGA more than he knows as much as MAGA deserve chuck. The truck stop and the small town country club need to get shit straight before any real political deserved political victory. Radicals and wool-headed liberal idealists await.
Once I read the police report (FBI website) it described something much like this.
Deranged nut breaks in. Comes to stand over bed. Pelosu wakes and tense negotiations ensue. Not long after police come and they make their way to the door. Blow to head causes serious injury.
"the sad part of this is that an 82 year old with a history of abuse/misuse of alcohol, was apparantly alone in the house without any staff, without security guards, without family, and even without a dog who might bark at an intruder."
Nancy P. is such a great wife. A paragon of concern and loyalty to her elderly husband. Her intermittent phone calls to Paul from distant places while fundraising are a source of great comfort to her husband, if she calls at all. When she's not telling him to place bets on wall street with newfound information she's discovered, she's planning the next photo opportunity where they can look the part of the happy couple. She was planning to buy him a dog, but decided that bringing in a priest to exercise the demons in the house recently would be more effective than providing companionship to an 82 year old man in the twilight of his life. After all, what does a dog know about crazy d.c. superstitions or the things people are willing to sacrifice for power? Nothing. There's no place for dogs in Nancy's house, not even to keep Paul company. She never knows if the dog might secretly be conservative, which is a greater concern than finding a man's best friend for her man.
First, this is not evidence that Pelosi was doing anything but trying to placate a violent intruder.
Second, the police work was superlative. Nancy should be deeply ashamed of her Party for demonizing police and spend the rest of her existence trying to correct them and her for degrading these brave civil servants to the point where many have been murdered because of her political calculations. If she does anything less, may she burn hotter in hell.
Third, even if Pelosi was fooling around foolishly, he is no less a victim of a murderous nut. If this was a hook-up, it wasn't a hookup to get his head bashed in. See, for example, Looking for Mr. Goodbar.
Fourth, if you are being held by a crazy stranger for hours, you will do anything to placate and distract them with the hope of surviving or escaping. Tell them they're good in bed as they violate you, thank them for harming you, offer them a drink, try to set up a later meeting, promise you won't tell, say you want them. It's the worst part of the assault, this psychological game, but it may keep you alive if help isn't coming.
More jurors should know this.
William, why don't you enlighten us about how the police could have done better? They were sent on a very confusing domestic violence-sounding call and very quickly acted. The didn't know how many people were in the house, if guns were there, even who was the perpetrator.
There is no fool worse than fools with fantasies of being above the fray.
What Tina Trent said.
I don't like Chuck. At all.
But even a stopped clock is right twice a day. His list of quotes reveals the all-too-common infantile behavior of so many combox warriors who seem to think that it is a good idea to post whatever imagined or fabricated rubbish pops into their heads. We have a serious prudence shortage in this country.
People are still allowed to speculate?
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