November 26, 2022

"In 1976, Ronald Reagan challenged a sitting president, Gerald Ford, and four years later Jerry Brown did the same against Jimmy Carter."

"Both incumbents would lose the general election, as would George H.W. Bush in 1992, the last year a president would face a remotely serious primary. This fear of wounding your own president and only ensuring his defeat in the fall is partly the reason why primaries against incumbents have faded, and it’s certainly top of mind for younger challengers who don’t want to hurt their future prospects within the party. Yet there’s something else at work now that was lacking when Reagan and Brown mounted their challenges. Today’s intense polarization and the contempt the two parties have for one another has fostered an internal cohesion within the two coalitions that, far more than ideological unity, acts as a retardant against insurgencies...."

From "Newsom Told the White House He Won’t Challenge Biden/The would-be pursuer of Trump and DeSantis is 'all in' for the president’s reelection and willing to wait his turn" (Politico).

118 comments:

Joe Smith said...

If the Rs can't beat Newsome then they should disband the party.

He's an adulterous, cocaine orgy-fueled pretty boy whose looks are fading fast.

And he's not very bright to boot.

A campaign slogan of 'I'll turn the entire country into California' isn't very appealing...

Mike said...

We here in California will just have to take one for the team and endure an additional two years of the Brylcreem Boy. Aaargh! But better that he sits in Sacramento than presides on the Potomac.

retail lawyer said...

I take this to mean Newsom has reason to believe Biden will not really run. Newsom's chance is 2024 or never. California will be way too famous as a lesson on how to shithole a wonderful place after 2024, and perhaps even by 2024. People will notice that he has held some powerful office or another throughout the descent, and cheered it on.

Mr Wibble said...

After the midterms, Biden is untouchable. A red wave would have given dems ammo to force him to step aside in 24, but that didn't happen. We are likely to have a rematch of Biden v Trump, only this time both will have four years of performance to be judged against each other.

Yancey Ward said...

I guess they wanted to show the actions of past California governors, but they should have just kept it simpler and more accurate and replaced Brown in that article with the guy who really challenged Carter in 1980- Ted Kennedy.

Yancey Ward said...

And it isn't that a primary challenge of an incumbent President weakens that President- this is an example of messing up cause and effect. Weak incumbents draw primary opponents- that is the cause and effect correctly described.

Readering said...

Jerry Brown? Ted Kennedy.

Readering said...

Trump first incumbent since Hoover to lose without primary challenge.

Achilles said...

If this is true Desantis is smarter than his supporters.

I would be very surprised if Desantis runs now that Trump has announced. He has repeatedly said he wouldn't run against Trump and he seems like a person that doesn't want to be your average dishonest hack politician.

Iman said...

The campaign ads against Newsom almost write themselves.

There will NEVER be a time that calls for what Newsom brings to the table, as any clear-minded, able-bodied Californian knows.

Temujin said...

I smell bullshit.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

the left should be screaming to get Joe out. Instead - they are all fine with the old senile puppet- mob-boss crook.

Trump q-s up the help.

hombre said...

He needs a couple more years of seasoning and a concussion or two. By then he will be able to show he is mediocre and deranged enough to compete agaist QuidProJoe and Fetterman in a Democrat primary.

Dave Begley said...

Newsome can't win. CA is an abject failure.

I'm still betting on Sheryl Sandberg.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

btw- all of this is a huge signal that Biden WILL get 4 more years.

Might as well let Trump win the 2024 nomination. It's all over anyway.

Dave Begley said...

The Dems can't be serious about Biden in 2024. Can they?

Mayor Pete challenge Biden too.

No one likes Biden. He's been a failed President and corrupt to the bone.

Sally327 said...

The problem with waiting your turn is reliance on what may be a faulty assumption that there is some future, preordained moment that will eventually arrive and everything will fall into place for you.

There are politicians whose turn came and they ended up losing, Bob Dole, John McCain for example. And then there were those who didn't wait their turn, Bill Clinton, for example, or Barack Obama and they ended up winning.

Since I haven't perceived some great hunger for Gavin Newsom, it seems a bit bizarre, this pompous assurance that he doesn't intend to threaten Biden's reelection chances.

walter said...

Biden/Fetty 2023!
Different strokes for different dopes.

Drago said...

Althouse: "This fear of wounding your own president and only ensuring his defeat in the fall is partly the reason why primaries against incumbents have faded, and it’s certainly top of mind for younger challengers who don’t want to hurt their future prospects within the party."

Technology enabled ballot harvesting is the key reason moving forward that the old dynamics ad political calculus have forever changed.

I would guess that any democratical Presidential candidate, regardless of how nominated or how difficult a primary, would receive roughly the same percentage of ballots tabulated.

That would be legal and illegal ballots.

With mass mail-in balloting supported by the dems and their GOPe allies, under the current no-rules "rules", its difficult seeing any path to 270 for the rep in 2024.

Amexpat said...

The lede quote is wrong: Ted Kennedy mounted more of challenge against Carter in 1980 than Jerry Brown. And that hurt him more in the general election.

khematite said...

Bizarre Politico article. Jerry Brown won less than 3% of the vote in the Democratic primaries in 1980. On the other hand, Ted Kennedy, who won most of the primaries in the Northeast and also California's, gave Carter a real run for his money, though ultimately falling short of victory. Has this been completely forgotten? To refresh Politico's memory, they could take a lock at:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/21/camelots-end-kennedy-vs-carter-democratic-convention-1980-224030/

Drago said...

Recall the GOPe hated Reagan and it was HW Bush himself that "gifted" us with the "trickle down economics" lie.

Some things never change.

Bob Boyd said...

They told Newsome that Kanye West and Nick Fuentes know where he lives.

Robert Cook said...

Anyone who thinks Biden will win re-election against anyone, much less Trump if he is the Republicans' nominee, is seriously self-blinded. The Dems need to get their heads out of their asses and acknowledge they have to offer the voters something other than "not Trump" (or "not Republican").

Mike Petrik said...

It was Ted Kennedy who challenged Carter, not Jerry Brown.

chickelit said...

Not sure that Newsom wants to run against a Trump. He might be foiled by guile.

YoungHegelian said...

Uhhhmmm, why did the author forget the primary challenge to President Carter from Sen. Ted Kennedy? Kennedy almost won, and it damaged Carter quite a bit amount the left wing of the Democratic Party. In any case, Carter went on to lose to Reagan in 1980 by a sizable margin in the presidential election.

I think the author is wrong about the lack of a future primary challenge against Biden. We've got two more years of Biden and God only knows how badly things will be fucked up when it's time for his re-election. To give but one example, if Biden doesn't handle the railroad unions in their upcoming strike threat, and the strike screws up first Christmas & then the wider economy, it'll all be on the union-supporting Dems, especially Biden.

Also, a successful primary challenge lets the Dems get rid of not only the aged & decrepit Biden, but also the absolutely useless VP Harris in one swell foop.

cubanbob said...

Newsome's turn is never. He has no record to run on.

Narayanan said...

Big Guy will be grateful and kick in $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to keep CA from falling into Pacific

tcrosse said...

The writer is probably too young to remember the challenges to LBJ in 1968.

Another old lawyer said...

Newsome must be counting on Biden not running in 2024. If Trump looks like the R nominee, Newsome would be crazy not to want to be the D nominee. It's his best shot at looking better than the R nominee.

narciso said...

Its jonathan martin a ny times journolist ive forgotten more than martin will evef know

Rabel said...

Looks coordinated.

donald said...

The author probably wears Richie Rich clothing. He’s a child. He/she/it doesn’t know jackshit.

Steven said...

What we need is for Congress to get off its ass and do what's right for the nation -- put through a constitutional amendment making persons age 75 and older ineligible for election to the Presidency.

rcocean said...

Huh? The last time the Democrats had internal strife and challenged a sitting president was Carter. that was 40 years ago. The D's were 100 percent behind Obama and Clinton. Newsome dropping out was no surprise. He would only have run with the blessing of the D Establishment.

The D's not only do NOT challenge their sitting Presidents, they've been having fake primaries lately. The establishment picked Biden and Hillary. Bernie or whoever put up some token opposition and they coronated. Gore had token opposition from Bradley who withdrew after March 7, 2000. Kerry won Super-Tuesday after which the "Super-delegates" called him the winnder on March 2, 2004.

The only real primary struggle between Democrats occured 30 years ago in 1992 and the Hillary v. Obama primary which was just about personalities. Politically, Obama and Hillary are peas on a pod.

rcocean said...

With the Republicans its different. You can derisive 76 campaign with Ford calling Reagan a "Rightwing extremist" and Reagan reluctantly slinging it back. The 80 campaign opened with Ford calling Reagan a loser and "Unelectable" but Ford decided not to run. Instead, Bush took up the "Moderate" mantle and called Reagan's policies "Voodoo economics" and refused to drop out even after he lost in the vote count.

People forget it wasn't just conservatives that were upset at Bush in 92, moderates felt Quayle was "Dragging down the ticket" and wanted him dumped. The only reason Trump didn't get a challenger in 2020 is because all the challengers were polling so badly. Sasse, McMullin and Sanford all wanted to run.

Probably the only time the R's have been truly unified was 84 with Reagan and 2004 with Bush.

veni vidi vici said...

Who was GHWB's primary opponent? The guy who cost him the election, Poirot, ran independent not Republican in 1992.

Biden will run for the reelect (as Bannon likes to call it for some unknown reason) but my money says he's going to sub in a different running mate, and insofar as it's geared to getting an acceptable step-in for when Biden retires sometime after 2024, Newsom looks very good to be on the ticket as VP in '24. His statement that he won't challenge Biden in a primary, and that visit to DC he made awhile back while Joe was out of town, both suggest that the ground team of Obamaite "powers that be" running things in the WH and Newsom have already been planning as much.

Harris will have served her purpose as filling Biden's promise to name the first Black female VP but he's not obligated to overdeliver by making her a president, and everyone in the Dem coalition understands as much -- because they don't much like her, either.

Without Trump and with DeSantis potentially sitting out while Trump goes wild (and his base flips the bird to the party establishment) and Biden owns the catastrophic results of his policies, what non-GOPe conventional fartsniff candidates do the Republicans have for '24? Huckabee? Santorum? As an establishment proposition, the GOP has no one that can win if it isn't DeSantis. Imagine the pressure that's going to be put on that guy.

mikee said...

Biden has dementia. In two years, he will have two years' worse dementia. If we aren't in a war over Taiwan before then, it will be due to Dementia Joe ceding the population of the island to the Chinese Communist Party.

Drago said...

Althouse Blog Cimmissar (self-appointed): "Might as well let Trump win the 2024 nomination. It's all over anyway."

Its not easy to follow your whiplash-inducing, contradictory and idiotic prognostications regarding 2024.

According to you, Trump has completely destroyed his chances for the nomination, all "decent people" have abandoned him, he is powerless and he doesnt have a prayer against DeSantis...

.. while simultaneously...

... Trump will somehow destroy DeSantis by sharing some background info, might also form a 3rd party (a first for a powerless guy to ever achieve if it were to occur), and will ruin the party if he doesnt voluntarily step aside (again, a powerless guy?)...

...and now we add...

...the inevitable loss to the dems in 2024 so we might as well "let Trump" win the nomination!

Yes, I am beginning to understand why it is Inga and Howard have embraced you as an ally. You are their ally.

As a warm and empathetic person, I'm happy for you three.

Yancey Ward said...

Reagan would have won anyway, but John Anderson's run at as a third party candidate, intended by Anderson to help stop Reagan, ended up costing Carter several winnable states instead, including Massachusetts.

Joe Smith said...

Guilfoyle could either sink him, or she could get very rich if she doesn't.

Friendo said...

@ Robert Cook - I hope that you are right...

Maynard said...

We are likely to have a rematch of Biden v Trump, only this time both will have four years of performance to be judged against each other.

Does anyone really think that performance as POTUS will be determinative in a hypothetical Trump v. Biden matchup?

Trump is toxic with college educated White women.

Drago said...

Dave Begley: "No one likes Biden. He's been a failed President and corrupt to the bone."

That cant be right. The GOPe-ers have proudly, publicly and explicitly vouched for Joe Biden's decency, honesty and integrity.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

If it's Trump v Newsom = Trump loses
Biden v Trump = Trump loooozez

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I'm with others above: WTF happened to Ted Kennedy? I was but a kid in 1980, but I don't remember Jerry Brown even running at all. Kennedy, OTOH . . . not to mention John Anderson, the other confounding factor.

Yancey is probably right: The author was looking for former CA governors specifically, so Kennedy didn't count. But why do we have to guess at a writer's unstated premises?

Wilbur said...

My recollection of the 1980 Democrat primaries is that Kennedy's challenge to Carter was largely based on the rejection of Carter and his advisors by the party elites as unalterably declasse, and that Kennedy could restore the best and brightest to their proper positions.

Zavier Onasses said...

Wait your turn, dammit. Like Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mit Romney. Like chicken fat rising to the top of a stock pot to get skimmed off. Hey GOP, sometimes ya gotta go Rambo. Thank you DJT.

Lurker21 said...

My recollection is that Jerry Brown's presidential campaigns were half-hearted, amateurish, and eccentric. In 1992 he was even pitching a flat tax, not something Democrats usually like. His 1976 and 1992 campaigns got further than his 1980 race, which fizzled out early. Carter's big challenger then was of course Ted Kennedy, who took it all the way to the convention and wasn't very gracious about conceding and giving support to Carter. Carter was a small man, and the clear indication that the party wasn't behind him made him look even smaller and definitely hurt his campaign.

I would liken Biden to LBJ. He'll have to face bad results in NH and Iowa, and then he'll have a reason and an excuse to drop out. Biden's staying in the race until then means Harris will be blocked from getting a campaign set up, so that leaves the road clear for Newsom, who's a terrible governor and not much of a human being, but he could command support in the solidly Democratic states. If Biden stays in the race, floundering and foundering until the very end, that will also be fun.

Lurker21 said...

My recollection is that Jerry Brown's presidential campaigns were half-hearted, amateurish, and eccentric. In 1992 he was even pitching a flat tax, not something Democrats usually like. His 1976 and 1992 campaigns got further than his 1980 race, which fizzled out early. Carter's big challenger then was of course Ted Kennedy, who took it all the way to the convention and wasn't very gracious about conceding and giving support to Carter. Carter was a small man, and the clear indication that the party wasn't behind him made him look even smaller and definitely hurt his campaign.

I would liken Biden to LBJ. He'll have to face bad results in NH and Iowa, and then he'll have a reason and an excuse to drop out. Biden's staying in the race until then means Harris will be blocked from getting a campaign set up, so that leaves the road clear for Newsom, who's a terrible governor and not much of a human being, but he could command support in the solidly Democratic states. If Biden stays in the race, floundering and foundering until the very end, that will also be fun.

Lance said...

Without that primary run in '76, Reagan would not have had as much momentum in '80. And Ford was already weak.

Also Brown barely challenged Carter. It was Kennedy that did the real damage. But again, Carter was going to lose regardless. Of course, Reagan was a strong president, and Kennedy had no chance in '84, regardless of what success he'd had four years earlier.

Saint Croix said...

The writer is probably too young to remember the challenges to LBJ in 1968.

What's remarkable is that it got so bad for LBJ he elected not to run again.

That's rather shocking to me, because in my lifetime, if a president can run again, he runs again. They don't give a shit how unpopular they are, or how bad it looks. They like power and they are loathe to give up on it.

Those people who think Joe Biden is going to take the high road and decline to run again, well, it would surprise the heck out of me. I fully expect him to keep his word and strive to stay as powerful as he can for as long as he can.

Supreme Court Justices are the obvious template. Ginsburg held onto power until she was 87! But, unlike Biden, she showed no real cognitive decline, at least in public.

I suspect Biden's mind is actually deteriorating. That's the real worry with Biden for the Democrats. Not his age -- which is just a number -- but his actual mental acuity.

Probably the best Supreme Court analogy for Biden would be William Douglas after his stroke. He was talked into retiring, his replacement was nominated and confirmed, and then Douglas decided that he didn't want to go after all(!)

Douglas maintained that he could assume judicial senior status on the Court and attempted to continue serving in that capacity, according to authors Bob Woodward and Scott Armstrong. He refused to accept his retirement and tried to participate in the Court's cases well into 1976, after John Paul Stevens had taken his former seat. Douglas reacted with outrage when, returning to his old chambers, he discovered that his clerks had been reassigned to Stevens, and when he tried to file opinions in cases whose arguments he had heard before his retirement, Chief Justice Warren Burger ordered all justices, clerks, and other staff members to refuse help to Douglas in those efforts. When Douglas tried in March 1976 to hear arguments in a capital-punishment case, Gregg v. Georgia, the nine sitting justices signed a formal letter informing him that his retirement had ended his official duties on the Court. It was only then that Douglas withdrew from Supreme Court business.

That's how I see Biden. He loves his power, and his wife loves her power. When they say they are running again, why would you doubt them?

Butkus51 said...

Drago

Wrong. Bush 1 did not invent trickle down, neither did Reagan. Its just a smart aleck joke used thru the ages.

Will Rogers was one of the first to use the term.

But youre smart, right?

Mr Wibble said...

Trump is toxic with college educated White women.
--------


There is no GOP candidate who will perform well with college educated white women because they've drunk the flavorade of progressivism. It's not about issues, but about politics as a vehicle for social positioning and for providing them with a heroic narrative. Better to give up on them entirely and appeal to other groups.

Mr Wibble said...

CEWW have perpetually friend zoned the GOP establishment. They date the progressive boy because he's so radical, but when he turns out to be a cad, or a shiftless lay-out, they run crying to the nice boy, just long enough to be rescued and then they're off again.

Saint Croix said...

I've linked to this SNL skit multiple times, because I love the damn thing.

They have a lot of fun with how bad a candidate Joe Biden will be in 2024, and how the other options are even worse. It cracks me up.

But what's notable about that skit is how they exclude the California governor. Probably because he's never run for president and you can't really mock him as a loser (yet).

Mary Beth said...

The phrase "top of mind" is forever linked in my mind with Biden asking where the dead congresswoman was. Or, more precisely, with the White House's excuse for why he kept asking where she was.

Saint Croix said...

I hope Biden is the candidate in 2024, because I think he'll be a spectacularly bad nominee.

He's corrupt as shit, senile as shit, and pretending to be Woke as shit. Nobody on the hard left likes him, and everybody else has to notice that his son is a crime lord and Biden senior is shaking hands with invisible people.

The only thing that's propping up Biden, and his party, is Trump Derangement Syndrome, which is the most virulent case of presidential hatred I've ever seen. It's still going on even as he's been out of office for two years!

Of course it's true that a lot of people love Trump. But it's also true that a lot of people hate him, too. And I suspect the latter outnumber the former, if the 2020 and 2022 elections have any validity at all.

I started backing DeSantis even before the mid-terms. But that election really clarified how much animosity there is for Trump, and it dramatically hurts his candidacy.

Far better to nominate a popular governor who is kicking ass and taking names. And the best part is that if DeSantis is the nominee, all the Trump animosity dissipates into nothingness. And the Democrats are stuck with the worst nominee since Carter. Worse than Carter, really. DeSantis in 2024 will probably make this list.

Saint Croix said...

Let's try that again, Blogger.

DeSaintis in 2024 will probably make this list.

Mr Wibble said...

And the best part is that if DeSantis is the nominee, all the Trump animosity dissipates into nothingness.

No, it doesn't. These are the same people who mocked McCain for his war injuries, who made a joke out of "binders full of women," and who believed that Sarah Palin really said she could see Alaska from her house. They will shift all their hatred onto DeSantis, because that is what the popular culture will tell them to do. They are a hive mind.

Drago said...

Butkus51: "Drago
Wrong. Bush 1 did not invent trickle down, neither did Reagan. Its just a smart aleck joke used thru the ages.

Will Rogers was one of the first to use the term."

I never said HW invented it. I said he gifted it to us (during the 1980 primary) as a means to denigrate Reagan's economic growth strategy...which was correct. And to demonstrate the long standing animosity of the GOPe to actual conservative and nationalist economic policy.

Butkus51: "But youre smart, right?"

Smart enough to properly quote someone. Are you?

For your benefit

Drago: "Recall the GOPe hated Reagan and it was HW Bush himself that "gifted" us with the "trickle down economics" lie.

Some things never change. 1:58 PM"

Always happy to help. Let ne know if you have any other questions.

Given your handle, perhaps a concussion protocol for you is warranted?

Drago said...

Saint Croix: "Far better to nominate a popular governor who is kicking ass and taking names. And the best part is that if DeSantis is the nominee, all the Trump animosity dissipates into nothingness."

This should be a snap given the assurances by Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) that all decent people have abandoned Trump (except of course for those icky working class deplorables that our Commissar despises but they dont really count) and Trump has lost all power abd influence.

I guess we are all looking forward to the DeSantis nomination/coronation.

minnesota farm guy said...

By 2024 Biden is apt to be a drooling idiot. (He's only an idiot now!) I think it is irresponsible of the Dems to allow him to run again, but who do they really have to replace him: Newsome; Bernie; and a bunch failed primary candidates from 2020. I think both parties should be responsible enough run competitive primaries and allow some fresh blood to vie for the prize. Trump needs to be knocked out of the race or we are in for at least 12 years of Dem rule. I think just the very mention that he was going to throw his hat in the ring lost Rs a lot of votes in the 2022 election. Independents do not like Trump!

minnesota farm guy said...

@Drago You had better be careful about your support for DeSantis or you will have Achilles calling you nasty names.

Saint Croix said...

Who was GHWB's primary opponent?

That was my question too!

Pat Buchanan.

I think that's what Biden is likely to get, a no-name or little name primary challenge.

Right now Biden and his surrogates are locking down commitments from "viable" candidates like Newsom to not primary him. You only do that stuff if you're planning to run for re-election.

It's obvious that Biden wants to run again. That this is even a question shows just how spectacular bad a candidate he actually is.

Biden's weakness invites a primary challenge. And he'll get one, I think. His weakness is too obvious! But it will be a challenge from an unusual, "what the hell" sort of candidate. Newsom thinks too highly of himself to risk a primary challenge against Biden.

Imagine somebody like Yang winning Iowa. That would shock the hell out of the Democrats. I think there are pretty good odds that somebody is going to challenge Biden.

You know who would really wreck him? Michelle Obama.

Lem Former Twitter Aficionado said...

It’s going to be boring without Trump.

Saint Croix said...

These are the same people who mocked McCain for his war injuries, who made a joke out of "binders full of women," and who believed that Sarah Palin really said she could see Alaska from her house. They will shift all their hatred onto DeSantis, because that is what the popular culture will tell them to do. They are a hive mind.

I think that dramatically underestimates how big an impression Trump has made on our country. The man lost the election in 2020 and we are still talking about the son of a bitch. I can't tell you how many damn internet conversations I've been in that start off talking about Monet paintings or Wisconsin cheese and somehow Donald Trump gets dragged into the fucking conversation. Mr. Godwin might have to rewrite his law to include Donald Trump. It's insane!

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that it really does matter who the Republican nominee is, Trump or DeSantis. It doesn't matter ideologically. I think their ideologies are very similar. And as a Republican I'd be happy with either of them in the White House. I just think DeSantis has a far better chance to win the election. Not even close.

Yes, sure, I have Sympathy for the Devil, but politically speaking I much prefer the DeSantis victory song.

Moondawggie said...

Mr Wibble said... "There is no GOP candidate who will perform well with college educated white women because they've drunk the flavorade of progressivism. It's not about issues, but about politics as a vehicle for social positioning and for providing them with a heroic narrative. Better to give up on them entirely and appeal to other groups."

You nailed it, Bro!

n.n said...

"trickled down economics" is the theory that elites should redistribute capital (i.e. retained earnings through productivity) in a "trickle down" model in democratic/dictatorial regimes.

Gahrie said...

Given what the country, the world and the economy are all going to be like, I don't know why anyone would want to run for president in 2024.

Gahrie said...

Why would anybody believe that the Left and the MSM are going to treat any other republican any better than they treat Trump?

Hell look how they treated Romney until he rolled over and showed his belly.

Gahrie said...

And the best part is that if DeSantis is the nominee, all the Trump animosity dissipates into nothingness.

Yeah, it's not as if there was already a history of the Left demonizing Desantis as Trump-lite and a direct threat to our democracy....

Achilles said...

“[DeSantis has] had a very successful run as governor of Florida. He won re-election on Nov. 8 with a big majority. A lot of people look to him as the next generation candidate,” Bolton said in a recent interview with The Guardian. “That’s one of Trump’s biggest problems – his act is old and tired now.”


So Desantis is endorsed by Jeb Bush, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney and now John Bolton.

I will not support any Republican that does not denounce these people openly and repeatedly.

If Desantis does not distance himself from these people he will lose any national election whether it is the primary or the general.

Achilles said...

Butkus51 said...

Drago

Wrong. Bush 1 did not invent trickle down, neither did Reagan. Its just a smart aleck joke used thru the ages.

Will Rogers was one of the first to use the term.

But youre smart, right?


Bush was one of the first if not the first major candidate to popularize it as an attack against Reagan.

But the Romney Republicans are going to get all snippy if you attack Desantis for cozying up to the GOPe smear merchants that are attacking Trump.

"Muh 11th amendment!" "Muh principles!"

Hypocrites.

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

If it's Trump v Newsom = Trump loses
Biden v Trump = Trump loooozez



That about sums up the intellectual heft of the Romney wing of the party.

Would you all prefer to be called the Bush wing instead?

Crazy World said...

The best thing about growing up in Southern California was we never heard one word about politics, was all smooth sailing.

Crazy World said...

Also….watching greasy sleezy Newsome destroying my old homeland has been very painful these last too many years and he is LYING about not wanting to squash that current grotesque White House resident.

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "Independents do not like Trump!"

The entire working class in all its diversity, which the republicans must have to gain a working majority, are going to hate "Romney II - DeSantis: the King of Outsourcing Your Jobs To China" (see TPP/TTIP votes with his good clone buddies Paul Ryan and John Boehner).

You have to choose which way to go and whether you will have an economic nationalist and populist/distrustful-of-our-completely-corrupted-"elites" base (which is a growing base) OR a base where you are constantly shagging after the softer white suburban wine moms with graduate degrees in education and HR who are part of a shrinking portion of the electorate and increasingly see themselves as a core part of the democratical party.

Since you are a Minnesota guy, I suggest you take a look at the last 40 years worth of general election returns in the iron range and compare to the white educated female suburban vote in the Twin Cities.

gadfly said...

Not even the libs trust Biden, who is basically an old man gone to roost. On the other hand, Gavin Newsome already displayed his bad judgment by marrying Kimberly Guilfoyle. With Gavin residing in California and Kimberly living in New York City, the marriage lasted less than five years.

Kimberly Guilfoyle: "I am always changing and doing stuff," she told The Washington Post. "Grass doesn't grow too long under my feet. I'm on the move."

Yes, she is always doing stuff like screwing Don Jr. and getting paid to do it.

wendybar said...

Mr Wibble said...
And the best part is that if DeSantis is the nominee, all the Trump animosity dissipates into nothingness.

No, it doesn't. These are the same people who mocked McCain for his war injuries, who made a joke out of "binders full of women," and who believed that Sarah Palin really said she could see Alaska from her house. They will shift all their hatred onto DeSantis, because that is what the popular culture will tell them to do. They are a hive mind.

11/26/22, 7:45 PM

THIS^^ AND what Achilles said @ 11:39 pm!!

Christopher B said...

Regarding GHWB, if he had won reelection it would have marked a sixteen year period where more than one person of one party was elected President without the VP assuming the Presidency at some point. This has not happened since the Republican domination post-Civil War starting with Grant in 1868 and ending with Garfield's election in 1880, and before that the Era of Good Feelings with Democratic-Republicans Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe all serving two terms each between 1800 and 1824.

Despite his sky-high popularity post-Gulf War, the odds were against him winning a second term. His election in 1988 marked only the second time a sitting VP was elected President without first assuming the Presidency mid-term since the addition of the 12th Amendment. Andrew Jackson's VP Martin Van Buren elected President in 1836 is the only other. (This also suggests the odds were against Hillary succeeding Obama in 2016.)

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
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Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
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Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Achilles - are you the Fuentes wing or the YE wing of the Trumpian army?

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Achilles - your threats to take your ball and go =home remind me of leftist authoritarian threats.

Please - do not support DeSantis - or anyone else. It's Trump-Fuentes /Trump-YE!, or no one! Purity!

MadTownGuy said...

This has already been stated but I'll rephrase it: Newsom said only that he wouldn't run against Biden. If Biden is dumped by his party, all bets are off.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

8:29 Saint Croix - I agree.

They are clearing the Decks for another Biden run. Insane - but the democrats understand strategy and in this case - obedience.

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Achilles - are you the Fuentes wing or the YE wing of the Trumpian army?

When the Romney wing gets mad it starts posting stupid straw man attacks.

I have made it clear what I will support. You cannot discuss what you support in good faith so you resort to dishonesty.

Just like the left. Romney wing republicans need to look in the mirror.

I will not support endless neocon wars, massive foreign aid to Ukraine that is just laundered openly to dc politicians, open borders, amnesty, and free trade with China. The people supporting desantis support all of this right now.

I did not vote for Romney. I will not vote for desantis if he does not openly denounce these people and their policies.

If the choice is destruction of the working class and destruction of the working class with purple hair there is nothing to vote for.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Trump mocked McCain for war injuries.

is the Trumpain army going to forget that BS? Trump likes to make enemies. So do his blind faith adherents. Good luck with all the losing.

Turns out the media and the dems are salivating over another Trump run in 2024.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

If Biden wants to run - he will, and the left will step aside. Up next on the dems agenda? rigging the R-primary so Trump wins.

PM said...

Newsom will wait until Joe doesn't pass on '24, then he'll gut him.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Only Trump is the true GOP! All others must be denounced.

Got it.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Oh Look - Trump supporters AND Democrats are on the same page!

Go Trump GO! Only Trump can save us. He is, the one true god.

Drago said...

Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "is the Trumpain army going to forget that BS?"

As predicted, again, the McConnell-tards are revisiting every purposeful failure of the GOPe establishment and laying those actions at Trump's feet.

In this case, McCain stabbing the entire republican base in the back at the last moment on obamacare repeal, something he had promised to do for 7 years....just like his lies about "just build the dang wall" when he had no intention of ever supporting that.

Opposing the repeal of obamacare, opposing completion of the wall and supporting open borders, supporting the ChiCom deals AND one of the Keating Five All-Stars! Gee, how did a "smart" non-Trump allow himself to get roped into that?

I think I see now why the Althouse Blog Commentator (self-appointed) liked McCain so much.

Bonus: McCain spent all of his time attacking the republican base.

What a dreamy GOPe "electable" dude he was!

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

If Biden wants to run - he will, and the left will step aside. Up next on the dems agenda? rigging the R-primary so Trump wins.

You are just as dishonest and disingenuous as Inga or the other leftists here.

There are millions of people out there that support Trump because Trump actually listens to them and is taking on the corporate globalist agenda in DC.

You cannot deal with why people support Trump so you pretend it is the media supporting him. We do not support open borders, free trade with China, and neocon wars.

You run around bashing Trump and bashing his supporters. Then you get mad when we fire back.

There are more of us than there are of you.

You are the toxic one here. You are the one helping democrats.

Grow up and take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Achilles - your threats to take your ball and go =home remind me of leftist authoritarian threats.

Please - do not support DeSantis - or anyone else. It's Trump-Fuentes /Trump-YE!, or no one! Purity!


You are just dishonest.

You cannot discuss this in good faith.

Keep humiliating yourself. We all know who is actually attacking what republican voters want here.

It is you and your shilling for the GOPe donors.

Readering said...

Buchanan did not come close to beating HW, but he influenced the Convention in a way that supposedly hurt HW in the general. Kennedy at Convention hurt Carter. Both Conventions in '24 should be interesting.

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Oh Look - Trump supporters AND Democrats are on the same page!

Go Trump GO! Only Trump can save us. He is, the one true god.


You are a dumb pathetic troll.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Trump: "I like people who were not captured"

About the dumbest thing out of any political candidates mouth in the history of the US.
What does that have to do with McCain's polices? Nothing - it's just a lame and stupid thing to say.

HI I'm Trump - and I want less support. Here - I'm going to crap on you.
His blind faith idiots: "We love you Trump!"

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Achilles - Bad faith? Well Your Trump-Humper twin insists I'm a communist because I've abandoned fat-Donny and his insane holocaust denier antisemitic dinner guests.

I'll survive.

minnesota farm guy said...

@ Drago Anyone who pays any attention knows the Iron Range has been turning red for the last 10 years or so. Meanwhile the population of the Iron Range amounts to the low thousands while the Twin Cities is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million. Doesn't take many urban independents to overwhelm the Iron range , in fact, most of the rest of "outstate".
I am not the only one who knows that Independents don't like Trump! Backing Trump means you are ready to consign us to 4 more years of being governed by the village idiot.

Drago said...
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Drago said...

Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Trump: "I like people who were not captured"

About the dumbest thing out of any political candidates mouth in the history of the US."

It was hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Tremendously hilarious. And every other Navy flyer I know thought it was hilarious as well.

And it was delivered perfectly.

Of course it also matters by that time John McCain had made it quite clear what he thought of all of us in no uncertain terms. John McCain despised, with a burning hot hatred, the republican base voters.

That SOB wanted to make democrat Joe Lieberman his VP! That SOB thought Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt and Stuart (not Smalley) Stevenson would make a terrific campaign team!

Well, from a McCain/GOPe point of view, those guys WERE a perfect "republican" campaign team....because they were actually always democraticals.

I am beginning to understand better and better why our Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) was/is so enamored of John McCain: John McCain hated republican voters, loved his democratical allies, pushed for democratical legislation, undermined republican policies AND sabotaged core republican legislation.

Not to worry Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed), you have an entire GOPe wing of the party doing that same stuff now across the board.

You must be so proud.

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "I am not the only one who knows that Independents don't like Trump! Backing Trump means you are ready to consign us to 4 more years of being governed by the village idiot."

Then show me the candidate who can deliver the economic nationalist and America first policies that isn't Trump.

Go ahead.

Spoiler alert: That isn't DeSantis.

So if its not DeSantis, then who is it?

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "Backing Trump means you are ready to consign us to 4 more years of being governed by the village idiot."

I have been reliably informed that Trump is through and has no following so how is it possible that little old me is going to consign anyone to anything?

You are making no sense. If Trump is done as you all say, then he is done. Fine. Fini. Someone else will be there instead of Trump and all your problems are solved.

Drago said...

Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Achilles - Bad faith? Well Your Trump-Humper twin insists I'm a communist because I've abandoned fat-Donny and his insane holocaust denier antisemitic dinner guests."

Such a sad and pathetic lie. Very much like your moronic "hot take" that my saying DeSantis is funded by factions who don't want a strong engagement policy with China is equivalent to saying the ChiComs are funding DeSantis.

But hey, we'll play for a bit: Go ahead and post a link to whereever it is you claim I called you a communist (LOL, I almost couldn't finish writing that its so ridiculous!).

Don't worry, everyone who reads this blog knows you are lying about that because, duh, so no one will be holding their breath.

Yes indeed, Inga's and Howard's increasing affection for you appears well deserved. Your a nice addition to their merry little band. I suppose congratulations, of a sort, are in order for that.

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "@ Drago Anyone who pays any attention knows the Iron Range has been turning red for the last 10 years or so. Meanwhile the population of the Iron Range amounts to the low thousands while the Twin Cities is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million. Doesn't take many urban independents to overwhelm the Iron range , in fact, most of the rest of "outstate"."

That was just one example of a dynamic that is replicated across the nation and when scaled to future voters/ballots is clear win in terms of numbers for the economic nationalism approach.

You may disagree and feel that the traditional republican program best exemplified by the Romney/Ryan/McCarthy/McConnell wing is the better way to go to nail down those suburban moms who are already dem adjacent and are becoming more so.

If so, then good luck to you and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

BTW, go check out Paul Ryan's "new" (LOL) 19 point plan which is fundamentally the 2008 and 2012 republican campaign themes all neatly rolled into 1.

I'm sure it will make for some scintillating reading.

minnesota farm guy said...

@Drago
I never said I supported Romney or any of that crew you name. What I said, and it is true, is that Independents don't like Trump. . If Trump ends up as the nominee the Dems are a walk-in even with idiot Joe as their candidate. The Rs need to come up with an alternative to Trump if they want to win and at the moment DeSantis looks like the best alternative. You and Achilles have yet to name an alternative R candidate who can actually win the 2024 election. Remember "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing".

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

DRago - you support someone funded by the Saudis - so take your BS lies about DeSantis and shove them.

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Minnesota farm guy - Don't feel like you need to defend yourself to the Trump Humper Twins.

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "You and Achilles have yet to name an alternative R candidate who can actually win the 2024 election. Remember "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing"."

This is getting very very weird.

Achilles and I have been very clear on this point: we dont see a pathway for ANY other of the known potential candidates to win.

Pay close attention here: Both of us recommend someone emerges that attacks Trump as nowhere near Trumpy enough, though not in those words. That Trump completely failed to really deliver on tbose economic and foreign affairs and govt reform policies mentioned previously.

All you guys continue to offer is more of the same old same old policies and electoral strategies that are utterly unviable.

And its not my job to find the alternative to Trump. Whomever that candidate might be is supposed to find us.

Drago said...

minnesota farm guy: "@Drago
I never said I supported Romney or any of that crew you name."

I'll say this one more time here: I believe the deals have already been cut between DeSantis and his funders/advisors, which guarantees Romney/McCain type policies on immigration, foreign affairs, trade, fiscal policy, deep state NON-reform, etc. Which is why hundreds of millions are flowing to DeSantis as well as DeSantis standing aside as his deep state/DOJ/FBI "allies of convenience" continue to move on Trump in ways that EVERY republican should be criticizing...but they aren't, are they? (Caveat: Cruz has been speaking out about that in strong terms lately)

Achilles said...

Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...

Achilles - Bad faith? Well Your Trump-Humper twin insists I'm a communist because I've abandoned fat-Donny and his insane holocaust denier antisemitic dinner guests.

I'll survive.


This post is a definitional example of bad faith.

You are just humiliating yourself every time you post.

Achilles said...

minnesota farm guy said...

@Drago
I never said I supported Romney or any of that crew you name. What I said, and it is true, is that Independents don't like Trump.


You are wrong. Making something bold does nothing to support your point. We have addressed this repeatedly but you are too stupid to figure it out.

Trump pulled in millions of people that have been locked out by both parties. The working class and minorities of all types have been ignored by Republicans and betrayed by democrats.

Trump got 75 million votes because he drew independents in by the millions.

You cannot deal with this fact so you try to emphasize the Regime talking points.

You and the other Romney wing corporate tools are the minority. You can help Trump or you can do what you always do.

But you are a hypocrite and don't really believe a thing you say you do.

Achilles said...

Drago said...

So if its not DeSantis, then who is it?

Lake. Boebert. Masters.

Vance might give it a shot.

Maybe Zeldin.

Drago said...

Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "DRago - you support someone funded by the Saudis - so take your BS lies about DeSantis and shove them."

You can't possibly be this dumb. Truly.

Firstly, the fact that the Saudi's and others gulf state types are invested in a Jared Kushner Investment Fund (its called Affinity Partners by the way, not that you would know that) which will facilitate Arab funding of projects within Israel as well as Israeli cash to profit off some Arab nation projects, is not exactly a way to fund a campaign. But again, not that you would know that.

Here's a question you'll never be able to answer: how much of the Saudi investment in Affinity Partners has been kicked over to the Trump campaign? (Hint: Zero)

So thanks for playing. You're doing great! Back to the DeSantis funders and advisors (who are like a GOPe/Romney/Ryan "dream team"):

The DeSantis funders and supporters have made themselves fully known. DeSantis has raked in over $200M from the very Wall Street funders that oppose all economic nationalism policies and those funders have given INTERVIEWS, which have been linked to repeatedly, (see: Ken Griffen). The staffers are pure DC beltway establishment insiders. I'm positive they will fight hard against the deep staters........................(yes, you can laugh now).

And now you are going to pretend those funders HAVEN'T funded DeSantis? You are going to pretend DeSantis hasn't kept his mouth shut about all of those policies? You are going to pretend DeSantis did not vote like Paul Ryan's little poodle while in congress? Those are public votes there Einstein which you can go read about all by your little lonesome.

Oh, that's right, you don't actually read up on things. You just like making pronouncements. But don't worry. Your new democratical allies won't be forgetting about those DeSantis votes in congress and they won't be forgetting who is bankrolling that operation and they will be sure to share it the entire nation as they Romney-ize DeSantis.

Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Minnesota farm guy - Don't feel like you need to defend yourself to the Trump Humper Twins."

LOL

minnesota farm guy, I think you better listen to the Blog Commissar (self-appointed). I believe he thinks he's running things around here and its such a nice little blog...be a shame if anything were to happen to it.....

Drago said...

So, 2 active questions remain for our rather doltish Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed), not that either will ever be answered because they were stupid lies he coughed up without thinking, because of course.

But here they are anyway:

1) How much Saudi money has been received by the Trump campaign? (spoiler: zero. But lets see if the Commissar catches on....)

2) Where is the link which proves I called you a communist because you wouldn't support Trump? (spoiler: you cannot "link" to something that doesn't exist. Let's see if the Commissar catches on again....)